=== johnc4510_ [n=johnc@ubuntu/member/johnc4510] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-100-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ubotu [n=ubotu@ubuntu/bot/ubotu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === coNP [n=conp@unaffiliated/conp] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:17] @now Budapest [02:17] Current time in Europe/Budapest: August 09 2007, 02:17:15 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 14 hours 42 minutes === merriam__ [n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BFTD [n=thomas@67-150-255-132.oak.mdsg-pacwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul_ [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lionel_ [n=lionel@ip-149.net-89-3-208.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === 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joined #ubuntu-meeting === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.student.PriceChild] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === coNP [n=conp@unaffiliated/conp] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkRavenLogBot_ [n=DarkRave@dsl-243-84-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkRavenLogBot [n=DarkRave@dsl-241-204-103.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-241-204-103.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:11] @schedule Zurich [02:11] Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu [02:17] @schedule montreal [02:17] Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu === dendrobates [n=rclark@adsl-065-005-186-012.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:17] @schedule New York [02:17] Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu === tck [n=tck@78.16.0.204] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkRaven_ [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-243-95-252.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkRavenLogBot_ [n=DarkRave@dsl-243-95-252.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === xxxxx1 [n=xxxxx1@201.64.79.40] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === xxxxx1 [n=xxxxx1@201.64.79.40] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [02:32] . [02:38] @schule berlin [02:38] @schedule berlin [02:38] Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu [02:40] schule? [02:40] german school, probably [02:41] Hobbsee, i know;) === desertc [n=teer@fyodor.hcoop.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-243-95-252.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stilus [n=avuko@avuko.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez_ [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avuko [n=avuko@avuko.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === coNP [n=conp@unaffiliated/conp] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ca22tch_ [n=chatzill@dyndsl-091-096-046-091.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === evand [n=evand@ubuntu/member/evand] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:58] @schedule New_York [03:58] Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu === myoungf1 [n=myoungf1@70.56.36.84] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === thwaitess [n=chatzill@212.57.228.174] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === thwaitess [n=chatzill@212.57.228.174] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === TeTeT [n=spindler@207.101.227.3] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === clemyeats [n=clem@cacher5.ericsson.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=mystery@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:27] @schedule berlin [04:27] Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu === rtg_ [n=rtg@rtg.theglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux_ [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:35] IMPORTANT NOTICE: if people are waiting for the training meeting - it will take place in #ubuntu-training instead === Keybuk [i=scott@nat/canonical/x-8be3853bb2bc1332] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LiberCogito [n=deliberc@cpe-72-184-123-163.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LiberCogito [n=deliberc@cpe-72-184-123-163.tampabay.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === bdmurray [n=bdmurray@mylar.outflux.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kwwii [n=kwwii@p549552ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Aug 04:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu === bdmurray waves to kwwii [04:51] hi bdmurray === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:51] hello [04:51] congrats on winning that geek contest thing again [04:51] hdllo [04:51] :p [04:51] heh [04:51] erm hello [04:51] "geek contest thing" === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Klaidas [n=klaidas@unaffiliated/klaidas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Skiessi [n=qwe@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe88fb00-133.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === agoliveira [n=adilson@201.22.83.208.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === unimatrix9 [n=theGrid@a62-251-25-103.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:53] morning === LongPointyStick gives up on this assignment completely. [04:53] Hi all! [04:53] hi === mjg59 [n=mjg59@78.32.9.130] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:54] Good Evening! === pkl_ [n=phillip@unaffiliated/pkl/x-764568] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === iwj [n=ian@83.228.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:54] hi === rodserling [n=rod@pool-71-124-179-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:55] yo === pedro_ [n=pedro@pc-65-202-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:55] fabbione: hey [04:56] hey Ben [04:56] still 4 minutes.. just the right time for a quick one.. brb === amitk_ [n=amit@85-156-80-188.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BenC smokes in the house now [04:56] howdy all [04:56] \o/ [04:56] hey mdz === mvo waves [04:57] hey all [04:57] afternoon [04:57] greetings all, greetings mdz [04:57] fabbione: almost as quick as Al Bundy :-D === mathiaz [n=mathiaz@dsl-207-112-57-216.tor.primus.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === keescook [n=kees@ubuntu/member/keescook] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === keescook waves "hi" [04:58] what happens after 2 minutes? [04:58] hello [04:58] pitti: lol [04:59] universe implodes :) [04:59] "don't cross the streams" [04:59] Oh my! [04:59] the sky falls in === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508D8277.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:59] mathiaz: ping [04:59] linux becomes ready for the corporate desktop :-D === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:59] hi [04:59] ola [05:00] rtg_: I see you've just gotten some toys === tkamppeter_ [n=till@bl8-120-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:00] mdz: pong [05:00] yep [05:01] hi [05:01] hi [05:01] hi all [05:01] pitti: ehehe [05:01] IMPORTANT NOTICE: if people are here for the training meeting - it will take place in #ubuntu-training instead [05:02] just lurking [05:02] week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809 [05:03] zul: we need to enlarge the lurkers cupboard, so more of us can lurk [05:03] first order of business is to welcome jono (who is participating in the parallel training meeting) to the team === steviewonder [n=chatzill@212.57.228.174] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:04] he will be continuing in his role as community manager, but will be working much more closely with the canonical ubuntu team going forward [05:04] mdz: :) === keescook hugs jono === dinda [n=dinda@c-98-198-176-107.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:04] jono: welcome aboard [05:04] keescook: :) [05:04] oh, I was so looking forward to breaking him in on crazy packaging. :-) [05:04] BenC: :) [05:04] heh === steviewonder [n=chatzill@212.57.228.174] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === asac hugs jono [05:05] in particular, he will be focusing on the developer community, helping to support MOTU and refine processes around it [05:05] asac: :) [05:05] oh neat, welcome, jono [05:05] (and good luck) === mvo hugs jono === agoliveira hugs jono [05:05] so please feel free to share your thoughts about community with him, and welcome him if he comes to you to talk about any of this [05:05] wow, such nice peple :) === ogra hugs jono [05:06] jono: will you be at the MOTU meeting tomorrow night, incidently? (if it exists?) [05:06] one week in a hotel room together and he changes teams [05:06] Hobbsee: I will check with my schedule if I can get along [05:06] Friday, August 10, [05:06] 2007, at 04:00 UTC. [05:06] lol [05:06] cool [05:06] kwwii, he was sharing with the distro team ? [05:06] What's MOTU? [05:07] !motu | Skiessi [05:07] Skiessi: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU [05:07] Skiessi: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU [05:07] ogra: yepp [05:07] ...sure [05:07] ok, further hugs for jono can be directed to him after the meeting ;-) [05:07] thanks [05:07] :) [05:07] pitti: would you like to give a brief release update to go with tribe 4? [05:08] I will probably write a post-mortem [05:08] heh [05:08] it was a mess, so we need to change the release policy slightly to improve that in the future [05:08] ...with a stiff drink in one hand, to cope with the mess, yes [05:08] right now I moved most of the tribe-4 bugs to tribe-5 [05:09] so we have more serious bugs than ever [05:09] is that due to folks working to finish off features for feature freeze? [05:09] not that I blame you for it, we have features, those nasty bugs, and dapper.2 on top of it, but we have to balance it better [05:09] or because the bugs are particularly tricky? [05:09] partly because there is very little work in between the tribes on those bugs [05:10] and partly we got stuff like tracker, deskbar-applet, fusa, and new OO.o in two days before the tribe release [05:10] that happened in the previous tribes, too [05:10] yes, it seems as if everyone goes "ooh, drat, we've gotten the announcement about a few days before the freeze. quick, fix everything!" === Hobbsee noticed that for t3 as well [05:10] fusa? oh, fast user switching [05:10] mdz: The applet. [05:10] so I plan to freeze gutsy a lot longer in the future and do a mini feature-freeze [05:10] I see the point of getting new features tested [05:11] pitti: Sounds sensible. [05:11] Hobbsee: well, that is part of why we do milestones, to remind everyone to keep up ;-) [05:11] mdz: this is true :) [05:11] but rushing them in and shipping them half-broken won't do us nor our users any good [05:11] pitti: longer freeze doesn't sound good :/ [05:11] mdz: but they dont - the bugs keep getting delayed, as they didnt get in in time [05:11] seb128: we tried with the short ones, and it spectacularly failed [05:11] pitti: well, if those were not going to land now they were not going to be before feature freeze and I prefer to have those desktop changes tested this cycle than just before a LTS [05:11] and spending two days just firefighting two or three grave problems instead of preparing a good release doesn't help much either [05:12] seb128: right, I agree [05:12] but my point is: [05:12] seb128: part of the problem with the long freeze is that people are still having large, major uploads in after the freeze. [05:12] features shuold be uploaded right after a test release and in between, not rushed right at the freeze time === ogra would vote for one milestone less in the schedule as well ... [05:12] OO.o was a particular beast, and largely due to a misunderstanding [05:12] I won't generalize that to policy changes [05:12] the current release cycle is roughly 1 month planning, 3 months feature development, 2 months stabilization [05:13] do you think we need to adjust that balance? [05:13] mdz: no, I don't think so [05:13] pitti: right, I agree, I have responsabilities in there but desktop is way too much for 1 people nowadays and I do what I can :/ [05:13] mdz: we need to adjust the micro-schedule, not the one for the entire release [05:13] oh, I meant to try MootBot for this meeting, but forgot [05:13] #startmeeting [05:13] Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is mdz. [05:13] Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] [05:13] mdz: it'd be nice if we could get it off the LP release cycle too, if possible. [05:13] seb128: I appreciate that === unimatrix9 [n=theGrid@a62-251-25-103.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ik] [05:13] mdz: so that LP doesnt break when trying to release [05:13] Having a mini _feature_ freeze in addition to the archive freeze, before the milestone, seems eminently sensible. [05:13] seb128: just discussing alternatives [05:13] MootBot: sorry for not telling you at the beginning of the meeting [05:13] rushing in OO.o at this point wasn't necessary, the release stopper bug which was present in 2.2 wasn't fixed in 2.3 [05:13] if we introduce a new feature, it shuold work well and make us proud [05:13] [TOPIC] release management and tribe-4 [05:13] New Topic: release management and tribe-4 [05:14] announcing something that barely works is bad IMHO [05:14] MootBot? that's new [05:14] doko: we finally have a firm grasp on what the bug is however and that was within the past couple days [05:14] doko: right [05:14] doko: the rationale was that it needed to land before UVF anyway and OOo needs as much testing as we can give it [05:14] MootBot is a tool that the Ubuntu Scribes team created [05:14] pitti: it's from the scribes team [05:14] doko: but we only knew that *after* it was uploaded [05:14] to track meeting activity so they can summarize it [05:14] doko: before we assumed that it would fix the eternal hang [05:14] that was due to a bad misunderstanding [05:15] pitti: the goal is to get those working nicely for gutsy, not to be perfect for whatever tribe they land to imo [05:15] apparently depending on which libraries you have installed (not just -gtk) it may happen to work for a user, or not [05:15] I think we focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone, sometimes [05:15] seb128: maybe not perfect, but it should reasonably work at least [05:15] the goal is for major problems from one milestone to be fixed in the next [05:15] [LINK] week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809 [05:15] pitti: well, in the past we did prepare new OOo versions in ppa archives first, and only did upload when it was working on all release archs. [05:15] LINK received: week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809 [05:15] I agree with seb128 here (also the banlance needs to be maintained, we can not release too broken tribes) [05:15] not for no new ones to turn up [05:16] and I think it's inevitable that we only notice certain problems when people focus on testing [05:16] cjwatson: "focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone" -> TBH I think we have too many [05:16] cjwatson: I agree === edujose [n=chatzill@136.Red-88-0-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:16] so this time I *did* some early testing last week [05:16] and CDs looked quite good [05:16] gtk changed something that causes partial initialization of it to fail horribly instead of just happening to still work [05:16] pitti: well, we either should perhaps target less features then and focus on bug fixing [05:16] cjwatson: Having a slightly longer period for people who've just rushed in an upload to say `oh wait no that's horridly broken let me fix it' might help a bit. [05:16] but then we rushed a few new features in [05:16] which bit several programs including OOo, some OOo libraries probably do full init which causes it to work if they are around [05:16] seb128: well, then we'll slip on features, not good either [05:17] we just need to land them a little earlier [05:17] right, easy to say [05:17] iwj: that's true. though it is the zeno's tortoise development model to some extent :-) [05:17] pitti: isn't this why we have a release manager to blame? :P [05:17] seb128: I know :/ [05:17] I know I've landed some things late but that was not bad willing [05:17] seb128: I'm not blaming you for anything [05:17] that's the best I could manage without dholbach there to give an hand [05:17] pitti: perhaps it would help to send out an early "start getting things in now" before the "freeze is imminent" reminder? [05:17] the tribe's done, it reasonably works, but I think we can improve [05:17] and I'd like to discuss that with you isntead of deciding on my own [05:17] pitti: right, but most of the late changes there are desktop things I've landed, so I feel it's part of my fault [05:18] mdz: what would be the timescale for that mail? [05:18] but that was either that or not landing things this cycle [05:18] mdz: that might help, yes, together with a mini feature-freeze on Thursday before maybe [05:18] seb128: I think a lot of people had their share this time (my apt change included) [05:18] You could have a soft freeze "please try to avoid uploading your new feature after if possible and consider whether the next milestone might not be a better target" ? [05:18] Keybuk: pitti's decision, I think [05:18] some ten days before release, I think [05:18] Monday the week before [05:18] pitti: perhaps some tools would help as well [05:18] we'll find out [05:19] perhaps if every time one ran dput, it would print the next week or so of the release schedule :-) [05:19] heh [05:19] to remind folks to plan ahead [05:19] pitti: with a feature freeze 10 days ago I would never have managed to land the desktop changes and they would have been delayed to next cycle maybe [05:19] pitti: in the latter half of the release cycle, that's almost the day after the previous tribe :p [05:19] seb128: no, not feature freeze, announcement [05:19] seb128: mini-FF on Friday evening before tribe [05:19] iwj: I think we'd have to space milestones out more in order to have finer granularity [05:19] (which would not *necessarily* be a bad thing) [05:19] pitti: k [05:20] pitti: if the problem was with the new features that seb landed, it doesn't sound like awareness is the problem, but simply too much work to be done in too little time [05:20] and more freezes don't help for features which are unrelated to milestones [05:20] yeah, ten days advance announcement for new features works for three weeks [05:20] two weeks is very tight on its own [05:20] pitti: I see people working weekends to fix their Friday rush jobs :-). === mvo is sure that will happen [05:21] iwj: *cough* === Klaidas [n=klaidas@unaffiliated/klaidas] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [05:21] doko: things like lpia don't really affect the CDs, so those are fine [05:21] pitti: but longer freezes do adversely affect bootstrapping jobs like that [05:21] pitti: besides hold of single long building packages, so these affect lpia as well [05:21] mdz: right, in the end it simply boils down to lack of manpower [05:22] doko: s/long building packages/major packages that affect the CDs/ [05:22] maybe we should first define what we expect from a Tribe CD [05:22] pitti: blame france ;-) [05:22] pitti: a library yes, more? didn't even change something for the milestone architectures ;-) [05:23] either 'something that you can use to show off Ubuntu' or 'something that (mostly) installs and is used to find bugs' [05:23] pitti: I consider the latter to be more appropriate [05:23] ++ [05:24] and also being a reasonable time to dist-upgrade, without your system falling to pieces [05:24] installs/upgrades [05:24] mdz: but then we shouldn't make such a fuss about it with wiki pages and www.ubuntu.com announcements [05:24] pitti: we do want to communicate about it, so that it gets testing [05:24] and change the tone of announcements to be more developer-oriented [05:24] and previews of new features are a good reason for people to test it [05:24] Hobbsee: it's a very constrained point in time, though. about an hour after the release, all the frozen uploads land and it destabilises again [05:24] but they can expect things to be broken [05:25] Hobbsee: so by the time most people read the announcement, it's already unstable again [05:25] cjwatson: this is true - hence it's more in the leadup to the tribe, i guess. === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:25] mdz: right, but if even we already know that your desktop doesn't even start often, or that feature X is broken or makes no sense (fusa on edubuntu etc.), what's the point in more testing? [05:25] cjwatson: that depends on how long it takes to build everything, too ;) [05:25] pitti: finding other things that are wrong [05:25] mdz: (slightly exaggerating, of course) [05:25] Keybuk: right [05:25] pitti: we should advertise a feature iff it's able to be tested [05:25] Keybuk: that would be with the 'developer-oriented releases' === Meyvn [n=Arjen@cp708387-a.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:26] ok [05:26] pitti: I don't consider testing to be exclusively developer-oriented [05:26] many people in the user community do useful testing who are not developers [05:26] indeed; some of the best feedback I've had this cycle is from getting some pure users to test a Tribe Live CD [05:27] mdz: well, it may simply be that my quality expectations of an announced test CD are too high then :) [05:27] mdz: mathiaz and I were just discussing the need for uat, [05:27] Keybuk: same here [05:27] ok, thanks all, no need to block the entire meeting with that [05:28] I think I'll write some ideas and a summary to distro-team@ [05:28] dendrobates: uat? [05:28] pitti: ok [05:28] user acceptance testing. [05:28] oh, and most of all: [05:28] pitti: could you CC me on that, if appropriate, as i'm interested in it as well [05:28] [ACTION] pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail [05:28] thanks to the entire team for your great work and the night shifts! [05:28] ACTION received: pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail === pitti hugs the team [05:28] pitti: I think ubuntu-devel would be more appropriate [05:29] pitti, i really think mvo deserves an extra hug from us all ;) === seb128 hugs pitti, sorry for the hard time, you are doing a rocking work ;) [05:29] and calc, too! [05:29] yeah === pitti gives an extra hug to mvo, calc, and seb128 [05:29] team hug! === Hobbsee hugs all of those who *didnt* break compiz this release. === mvo hugs pitti calc seb128 ogra [05:29] [TOPIC] (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release [05:29] New Topic: (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release [05:29] mvo: yeah, indeed, no OMGnodesktop!! things this time [05:29] Hobbsee: that would be me! *yyyuuuahhhh* [05:29] mvo: :D [05:29] pitti: yes ... many thanks! [05:30] mvo: well done! [05:30] (oh god, I 0wn the schedule, it seems) [05:30] (for compiz in general) [05:30] we even fixed the nasty --replace issue [05:30] :-) [05:30] so, apart from all the fuss about new features and getting gutsy fixed, etc., we still need to get dapper.2 out === mvo sends kudos to upstream === Lure [n=lure@193.141.61.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:30] since we are falling behind on the dapper.2 schedule due to ENOTIME, I have a question, mostly to mdz === calc hugs everyone, sorry for the mess :\ [05:31] two out of three of the installer fixes are in -proposed; the other is in my editor [05:31] should we rather cut down on the dapper.2 goals, or give this more time to solve them all and slip the end-august release? [05:31] pitti: what kind of tasks need to be done? [05:31] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 (sort by status preferably) [05:31] pitti: making a good point release is more important than the tentative schedule === popey [n=alan@ubuntu/member/popey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:31] pitti: but the reason it was set was to avoid clashing with the beta [05:32] the kernel team is much over-represented in the assignee list, due to dapper.2 mostly being a 'get it working wiht new hw' thing [05:32] also two point releases are harder than one longer one [05:32] (oo-er) [05:32] pitti: looks like mostly kernel work? [05:32] Yeah, kernel work is in progress [05:32] mdz: I just didn't know how firm the date is wrt. business partners etc. [05:32] I expect to have a kernel to cjwatson by tomorrow to roll an ISO for testing [05:32] pitti: we haven't announced the date yet, so if you want to propose a more realistic one, pleas edo [05:32] mdz: many bugs are even simple things like loading a module in initramfs [05:32] BenC: note that I'm on holiday all next week [05:32] (and nowhere near a computer) [05:33] cjwatson: so am I [05:33] pitti: I explicitly didn't announce it at ubuntu live for this reason [05:33] some are quite tricky kernel fixes, and we have a couple of needsinfo bugs which still need judgement from kernel guys [05:33] mdz: good to know then [05:33] pitti: ah, I didn't realize there were any kernel bugs that weren't confirmed in the list [05:33] some changes in mysql, too [05:33] BenC: not many, I think #26940 only ATM [05:34] pitti: I'll review the bugs today [05:34] pitti: can you take some time to estimate an achievable schedule, and we'll discuss that? [05:34] those are the things were I'm not qualified to judge eligibility (or even feasibility) for dapper.2 [05:34] (probably based on Ben's review) [05:34] yes, can do [05:34] [ACTION] pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2 [05:34] ACTION received: pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2 [05:34] BenC: can we meet at some time to go over the list and write down some estimations? [05:35] pitti: tomorrow, my morning, sound ok? [05:35] BenC: good for me [05:35] then we should also fine-tune assignees [05:35] [ACTION] BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs [05:35] [TOPIC] pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away [05:35] New Topic: pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away === BenC wonders if that will work [05:35] [ACTION] BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs [05:35] ACTION received: BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs [05:35] bot ACLs suck :) [05:36] BenC: no, according to the web page it's only the chair for that command [05:36] BenC: /nick privilege escalation \o/ [05:36] ah [05:36] I think that in general, MootBot should listen to actions from everyone, but automatically assign the action to the person ;-) [05:37] so, we need an experienced RM to take over tribe 5&6 and dapper.2 (cjwatson or Mithrandir?) [05:37] hehe, that will reduce the abuse [05:37] Mithrandir is going to be flat out on mobile during that time [05:37] not sure if Hobbsee has some time to assist? [05:37] I think he is already oversubscribed [05:37] mdz: I am already fully booked, yes. [05:38] pitti: maybe. it will depend on how much people want to work as a team, etc, and how much time i have [05:38] looks like cjwatson just got voluntold to do it :P [05:38] I also expect tribe 6 to be much calmer, with FF and UVF being in place then [05:39] tribe 5 is probably tough again, with lots of features getting rushed in (necessarily) [05:39] cjwatson is not exactly undersubscribed either [05:39] pitti: obviously, i'm not in a position to take control of it, unfortunately [05:39] Hobbsee: right [05:39] I can help, but not take full responsibility [05:39] although i'd sure like to [05:40] pitti: we need someone who is a cdimage admin? [05:40] mdz: and an archive admin, and some soyuz knowledge [05:40] Riddell: would you be interested? you have the above and experience getting releases out [05:40] although I don't expect every tribe to take as much soyuz h4ck1ng as I had to do in the past two days :) [05:40] cdimage admin nature is easier, it's just the end-stage [05:40] [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 [05:41] LINK received: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 [05:41] yeah, building CDs is simple [05:41] soyuz prodding is more frequently needed really [05:41] steering soyuz is more difficult [05:41] pitti: presumably you're doing the release, afterwards? [05:41] pitti: fwiw, I've yet to hack soyuz, ever. [05:41] and having some archive admin experience [05:41] Keybuk: possibly, of course I'm busy with other things but then so is everyone else [05:41] pitti: could adam help with soyuz steering? [05:41] Hobbsee: I don't think so [05:41] mdz: absolutely, if he can make room for that [05:42] pitti: oh, so that's going to fall to the person who will be selected too. big call, then [05:42] having our archive team and infinity assisting the RM with the soyuz guts will work [05:42] pitti: check with elmo, but he's qualified [05:43] pitti: is that satisfactory then? [05:43] Riddell(?) + archive team + infinity(or someone else who can drive soyuz) [05:44] Riddell: if you are ok with it, I would be happy with that [05:44] and spreading the archive/soyuz work out will help a lot, too [05:44] that'll certainly be interesting [05:44] I'm no soyuz expert, but other than than I can [05:45] so RM: please push that package into the archive -- archive/soyuz guys steer publisher/queue-builder/queue etc. [05:45] it will be a challenge to fill his shoes, but Martin deserves a honeymoon :-) [05:45] Riddell: infinity is, and he generally works on insane (IOW European) hours anyway [05:45] \o/ [05:45] :) [05:45] Riddell: I think we have enough people with the necessary combination of domain knowledge and outright bravery for that [05:45] pitti: all australians seem to work on european hours. australian hours suck! [05:45] I am allowed to take the laptop with me, but I'll be a divorced man if I'll sit at it all day :) [05:46] advice from a married man: DO NOT TAKE THE LAPTOP ON YOUR HONEYMOON === agoliveira never had a honeymoon in 12 years of marriage :( [05:46] pitti: [ACTION] pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday? [05:46] cjwatson: maybe that's a good piece of advice [05:46] cjwatson: ++ [05:46] cjwatson: but if you have to, don't take it to bed [05:46] [ACTION] pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday [05:46] ACTION received: pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday [05:46] it's not an enhancement to the mood for sure [05:47] cjwatson: hehe, i did but had very sporadic internet access so it was ok ;) [05:47] Handholding the apport retracers; I filed RT#28728 to make this possible, and I will write some documentation about it; seb128 offered to help out here already [05:47] yeah, I still need to get that solved before other people can drive it [05:47] (nothing to discuss here, though) [05:47] ok [05:47] now with the tribe behind me I'll continue documentation writing [05:47] SRU bug handling and archive processing [05:47] pitti: i have no experience with those so far, but would volunteer as well ... if there is documentation and a short introduction [05:48] mdz: oh, could you bump the priority of that RT perhaps? [05:48] I'm happy to deal with the retracer [05:48] asac: appreciated [05:48] once the RT is solved, I'll give you a tutorial [05:48] and a howto for the occasional hiccups [05:48] right ;) [05:48]