[02:17] <coNP> @now Budapest
[02:17] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Budapest: August 09 2007, 02:17:15 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 14 hours 42 minutes
[08:11] <kraut> moin
[02:11] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[02:11] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
[02:17] <zul> @schedule montreal
[02:17] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[02:17] <dendrobates> @schedule New York
[02:17] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[02:32] <DarkRaven_> .
[02:38] <mvo> @schule berlin
[02:38] <mvo> @schedule berlin
[02:38] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
[02:40] <juliux> schule?
[02:40] <Hobbsee> german school, probably
[02:41] <juliux> Hobbsee, i know;)
[03:58] <evand> @schedule New_York
[03:58] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[04:27] <kraut> @schedule berlin
[04:27] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
[04:35] <jono> IMPORTANT NOTICE: if people are waiting for the training meeting - it will take place in #ubuntu-training instead
[04:51] <kwwii> hi bdmurray
[04:51] <pitti> hello
[04:51] <kwwii> congrats on winning that geek contest thing again
[04:51] <calc> hdllo
[04:51] <kwwii> :p
[04:51] <bdmurray> heh
[04:51] <calc> erm hello
[04:51] <bdmurray> "geek contest thing"
[04:53] <bryce> morning
[04:53] <agoliveira> Hi all!
[04:53] <Skiessi> hi
[04:54] <ArneGoetje> Good Evening!
[04:54] <evand> hi
[04:55] <fabbione> yo
[04:55] <BenC> fabbione: hey
[04:56] <fabbione> hey Ben
[04:56] <fabbione> still 4 minutes.. just the right time for a quick one.. brb
[04:56] <mdz> howdy all
[04:56] <dendrobates> \o/
[04:56] <BenC> hey mdz
[04:57] <amitk_> hey all
[04:57] <Mithrandir> afternoon
[04:57] <Hobbsee> greetings all, greetings mdz
[04:57] <pitti> fabbione: almost as quick as Al Bundy :-D
[04:58] <Skiessi> what happens after 2 minutes?
[04:58] <cjwatson> hello
[04:58] <BenC> pitti: lol
[04:59] <Klaidas> universe implodes :)
[04:59] <keescook> "don't cross the streams"
[04:59] <rodserling> Oh my!
[04:59] <Hobbsee> the sky falls in
[04:59] <mdz> mathiaz: ping
[04:59] <Klaidas> linux becomes ready for the corporate desktop :-D
[04:59] <seb128> hi
[04:59] <asac> ola
[05:00] <BenC> rtg_: I see you've just gotten some toys
[05:00] <mathiaz> mdz: pong
[05:00] <rtg_> yep
[05:01] <tkamppeter_> hi
[05:01] <Skiessi> hi
[05:01] <Riddell> hi all
[05:01] <fabbione> pitti: ehehe
[05:01] <jono> IMPORTANT NOTICE: if people are here for the training meeting - it will take place in #ubuntu-training instead
[05:02] <zul> just lurking
[05:02] <mdz> week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809
[05:03] <Hobbsee> zul: we need to enlarge the lurkers cupboard, so more of us can lurk
[05:03] <mdz> first order of business is to welcome jono (who is participating in the parallel training meeting) to the team
[05:04] <mdz> he will be continuing in his role as community manager, but will be working much more closely with the canonical ubuntu team going forward
[05:04] <jono> mdz: :)
[05:04] <BenC> jono: welcome aboard
[05:04] <jono> keescook: :)
[05:04] <Mithrandir> oh, I was so looking forward to breaking him in on crazy packaging. :-)
[05:04] <jono> BenC: :)
[05:04] <jono> heh
[05:05] <mdz> in particular, he will be focusing on the developer community, helping to support MOTU and refine processes around it
[05:05] <jono> asac: :)
[05:05] <Hobbsee> oh neat, welcome, jono
[05:05] <Hobbsee> (and good luck)
[05:05] <mdz> so please feel free to share your thoughts about community with him, and welcome him if he comes to you to talk about any of this
[05:05] <jono> wow, such nice peple :)
[05:06] <Hobbsee> jono: will you be at the MOTU meeting tomorrow night, incidently?  (if it exists?)
[05:06] <kwwii> one week in a hotel room together and he changes teams
[05:06] <jono> Hobbsee: I will check with my schedule if I can get along
[05:06] <Hobbsee> Friday, August 10,
[05:06] <Hobbsee> 2007, at 04:00 UTC.
[05:06] <asac> lol
[05:06] <Hobbsee> cool
[05:06] <ogra> kwwii, he was sharing with the distro team ?
[05:06] <Skiessi> What's MOTU?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> !motu | Skiessi
[05:07] <ubotu> Skiessi: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[05:07] <mdz> Skiessi: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[05:07] <kwwii> ogra: yepp
[05:07] <Skiessi> ...sure
[05:07] <mdz> ok, further hugs for jono can be directed to him after the meeting ;-)
[05:07] <Skiessi> thanks
[05:07] <jono> :)
[05:07] <mdz> pitti: would you like to give a brief release update to go with tribe 4?
[05:08] <pitti> I will probably write a post-mortem
[05:08] <ogra> heh
[05:08] <pitti> it was a mess, so we need to change the release policy slightly to improve that in the future
[05:08] <Hobbsee> ...with a stiff drink in one hand, to cope with the mess, yes
[05:08] <pitti> right now I moved most of the tribe-4 bugs to tribe-5
[05:09] <pitti> so we have more serious bugs than ever
[05:09] <mdz> is that due to folks working to finish off features for feature freeze?
[05:09] <pitti> not that I blame you for it, we have features, those nasty bugs, and dapper.2 on top of it, but we have to balance it better
[05:09] <mdz> or because the bugs are particularly tricky?
[05:09] <pitti> partly because there is very little work in between the tribes on those bugs
[05:10] <pitti> and partly we got stuff like tracker, deskbar-applet, fusa, and new OO.o in two days before the tribe release
[05:10] <pitti> that happened in the previous tribes, too
[05:10] <Hobbsee> yes, it seems as if everyone goes "ooh, drat, we've gotten the announcement about a few days before the freeze.  quick, fix everything!"
[05:10] <mdz> fusa? oh, fast user switching
[05:10] <iwj> mdz: The applet.
[05:10] <pitti> so I plan to freeze gutsy a lot longer in the future and do a mini feature-freeze
[05:10] <pitti> I see the point of getting new features tested
[05:11] <iwj> pitti: Sounds sensible.
[05:11] <mdz> Hobbsee: well, that is part of why we do milestones, to remind everyone to keep up ;-)
[05:11] <Hobbsee> mdz: this is true :)
[05:11] <pitti> but rushing them in and shipping them half-broken won't do us nor our users any good
[05:11] <seb128> pitti: longer freeze doesn't sound good :/
[05:11] <Hobbsee> mdz: but they dont - the bugs keep getting delayed, as they didnt get in in time
[05:11] <pitti> seb128: we tried with the short ones, and it spectacularly failed
[05:11] <seb128> pitti: well, if those were not going to land now they were not going to be before feature freeze and I prefer to have those desktop changes tested this cycle than just before a LTS
[05:11] <pitti> and spending two days just firefighting two or three grave problems instead of preparing a good release doesn't help much either
[05:12] <pitti> seb128: right, I agree
[05:12] <pitti> but my point is:
[05:12] <Hobbsee> seb128: part of the problem with the long freeze is that people are still having large, major uploads in after the freeze.
[05:12] <pitti> features shuold be uploaded right after a test release and in between, not rushed right at the freeze time
[05:12] <pitti> OO.o was a particular beast, and largely due to a misunderstanding
[05:12] <pitti> I won't generalize that to policy changes
[05:12] <mdz> the current release cycle is roughly 1 month planning, 3 months feature development, 2 months stabilization
[05:13] <mdz> do you think we need to adjust that balance?
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: no, I don't think so
[05:13] <seb128> pitti: right, I agree, I have responsabilities in there but desktop is way too much for 1 people nowadays and I do what I can :/
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: we need to adjust the micro-schedule, not the one for the entire release
[05:13] <mdz> oh, I meant to try MootBot for this meeting, but forgot
[05:13] <mdz> #startmeeting
[05:13] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is mdz.
[05:13] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
[05:13] <Hobbsee> mdz: it'd be nice if we could get it off the LP release cycle too, if possible.
[05:13] <pitti> seb128: I appreciate that
[05:13] <Hobbsee> mdz: so that LP doesnt break when trying to release
[05:13] <iwj> Having a mini _feature_ freeze in addition to the archive freeze, before the milestone, seems eminently sensible.
[05:13] <pitti> seb128: just discussing alternatives
[05:13] <mdz> MootBot: sorry for not telling you at the beginning of the meeting
[05:13] <doko> rushing in OO.o at this point wasn't necessary, the release stopper bug which was present in 2.2 wasn't fixed in 2.3
[05:13] <pitti> if we introduce a new feature, it shuold work well and make us proud
[05:13] <mdz> [TOPIC]  release management and  tribe-4
[05:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  release management and  tribe-4
[05:14] <pitti> announcing something that barely works is bad IMHO
[05:14] <pitti> MootBot? that's new
[05:14] <calc> doko: we finally have a firm grasp on what the bug is however and that was within the past couple days
[05:14] <pitti> doko: right
[05:14] <cjwatson> doko: the rationale was that it needed to land before UVF anyway and OOo needs as much testing as we can give it
[05:14] <mdz> MootBot is a tool that the Ubuntu Scribes team created
[05:14] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's from the scribes team
[05:14] <pitti> doko: but we only knew that *after* it was uploaded
[05:14] <mdz> to track meeting activity so they can summarize it
[05:14] <pitti> doko: before we assumed that it would fix the eternal hang
[05:14] <pitti> that was due to a bad misunderstanding
[05:15] <seb128> pitti: the goal is to get those working nicely for gutsy, not to be perfect for whatever tribe they land to imo
[05:15] <calc> apparently depending on which libraries you have installed (not just -gtk) it may happen to work for a user, or not
[05:15] <cjwatson> I think we focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone, sometimes
[05:15] <pitti> seb128: maybe not perfect, but it should reasonably work at least
[05:15] <cjwatson> the goal is for major problems from one milestone to be fixed in the next
[05:15] <mdz> [LINK]  week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809
[05:15] <doko> pitti: well, in the past we did prepare new OOo versions in ppa archives first, and only did upload when it was working on all release archs.
[05:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809
[05:15] <mvo> I agree with seb128 here (also the banlance needs to be maintained, we can not release too broken tribes)
[05:15] <cjwatson> not for no new ones to turn up
[05:16] <cjwatson> and I think it's inevitable that we only notice certain problems when people focus on testing
[05:16] <pitti> cjwatson:  "focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone" -> TBH I think we have too many
[05:16] <pitti> cjwatson: I agree
[05:16] <pitti> so this time I *did* some early testing last week
[05:16] <pitti> and CDs looked quite good
[05:16] <calc> gtk changed something that causes partial initialization of it to fail horribly instead of just happening to still work
[05:16] <seb128> pitti: well, we either should perhaps target less features then and focus on bug fixing
[05:16] <iwj> cjwatson: Having a slightly longer period for people who've just rushed in an upload to say `oh wait no that's horridly broken let me fix it' might help a bit.
[05:16] <pitti> but then we rushed a few new features in
[05:16] <calc> which bit several programs including OOo, some OOo libraries probably do full init which causes it to work if they are around
[05:16] <pitti> seb128: well, then we'll slip on features, not good either
[05:17] <pitti> we just need to land them a little earlier
[05:17] <seb128> right, easy to say
[05:17] <cjwatson> iwj: that's true. though it is the zeno's tortoise development model to some extent :-)
[05:17] <fabbione> pitti: isn't this why we have a release manager to blame? :P
[05:17] <pitti> seb128: I know :/
[05:17] <seb128> I know I've landed some things late but that was not bad willing
[05:17] <pitti> seb128: I'm not blaming you for anything
[05:17] <seb128> that's the best I could manage without dholbach there to give an hand
[05:17] <mdz> pitti: perhaps it would help to send out an early "start getting things in now" before the "freeze is imminent" reminder?
[05:17] <pitti> the tribe's done, it reasonably works, but I think we can improve
[05:17] <pitti> and I'd like to discuss that with you isntead of deciding on my own
[05:17] <seb128> pitti: right, but most of the late changes there are desktop things I've landed, so I feel it's part of my fault
[05:18] <Keybuk> mdz: what would be the timescale for that mail?
[05:18] <seb128> but that was either that or not landing things this cycle
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: that might help, yes, together with a mini feature-freeze on Thursday before maybe
[05:18] <mvo> seb128: I think a lot of people had their share this time (my apt change included)
[05:18] <iwj> You could have a soft freeze "please try to avoid uploading your new feature after <x> if possible and consider whether the next milestone might not be a better target" ?
[05:18] <mdz> Keybuk: pitti's decision, I think
[05:18] <pitti> some ten days before release, I think
[05:18] <pitti> Monday the week before
[05:18] <mdz> pitti: perhaps some tools would help as well
[05:18] <pitti> we'll find out
[05:19] <mdz> perhaps if every time one ran dput, it would print the next week or so of the release schedule :-)
[05:19] <pitti> heh
[05:19] <mdz> to remind folks to plan ahead
[05:19] <seb128> pitti: with a feature freeze 10 days ago I would never have managed to land the desktop changes and they would have been delayed to next cycle maybe
[05:19] <Keybuk> pitti: in the latter half of the release cycle, that's almost the day after the previous tribe :p
[05:19] <pitti> seb128: no, not feature freeze, announcement
[05:19] <pitti> seb128: mini-FF on Friday evening before tribe
[05:19] <cjwatson> iwj: I think we'd have to space milestones out more in order to have finer granularity
[05:19] <cjwatson> (which would not *necessarily* be a bad thing)
[05:19] <seb128> pitti: k
[05:20] <mdz> pitti: if the problem was with the new features that seb landed, it doesn't sound like awareness is the problem, but simply too much work to be done in too little time
[05:20] <doko> and more freezes don't help for features which are unrelated to milestones
[05:20] <pitti> yeah, ten days advance announcement for new features works for three weeks
[05:20] <pitti> two weeks is very tight on its own
[05:20] <iwj> pitti: I see people working weekends to fix their Friday rush jobs :-).
[05:21] <cjwatson> iwj: *cough*
[05:21] <pitti> doko: things like lpia don't really affect the CDs, so those are fine
[05:21] <cjwatson> pitti: but longer freezes do adversely affect bootstrapping jobs like that
[05:21] <doko> pitti: besides hold of single long building packages, so these affect lpia as well
[05:21] <pitti> mdz: right, in the end it simply boils down to lack of manpower
[05:22] <pitti> doko: s/long building packages/major packages that affect the CDs/
[05:22] <pitti> maybe we should first define what we expect from a Tribe CD
[05:22] <mdz> pitti: blame france ;-)
[05:22] <doko> pitti: a library yes, more? didn't even change something for the milestone architectures ;-)
[05:23] <pitti> either 'something that you can use to show off Ubuntu' or 'something that (mostly) installs and is used to find bugs'
[05:23] <mdz> pitti: I consider the latter to be more appropriate
[05:23] <ogra> ++
[05:24] <Hobbsee> and also being a reasonable time to dist-upgrade, without your system falling to pieces
[05:24] <mdz> installs/upgrades
[05:24] <pitti> mdz: but then we shouldn't make such a fuss about it with wiki pages and www.ubuntu.com announcements
[05:24] <mdz> pitti: we do want to communicate about it, so that it gets testing
[05:24] <pitti> and change the tone of announcements to be more developer-oriented
[05:24] <mdz> and previews of new features are a good reason for people to test it
[05:24] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: it's a very constrained point in time, though. about an hour after the release, all the frozen uploads land and it destabilises again
[05:24] <mdz> but they can expect things to be broken
[05:25] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: so by the time most people read the announcement, it's already unstable again
[05:25] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: this is true - hence it's more in the leadup to the tribe, i guess.
[05:25] <pitti> mdz: right, but if even we already know that your desktop doesn't even start often, or that feature X is broken or makes no sense (fusa on edubuntu etc.), what's the point in more testing?
[05:25] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: that depends on how long it takes to build everything, too ;)
[05:25] <Keybuk> pitti: finding other things that are wrong
[05:25] <pitti> mdz: (slightly exaggerating, of course)
[05:25] <pitti> Keybuk: right
[05:25] <mdz> pitti: we should advertise a feature iff it's able to be tested
[05:25] <pitti> Keybuk: that would be with the 'developer-oriented releases'
[05:26] <pitti> ok
[05:26] <mdz> pitti: I don't consider testing to be exclusively developer-oriented
[05:26] <mdz> many people in the user community do useful testing who are not  developers
[05:26] <Keybuk> indeed; some of the best feedback I've had this cycle is from getting some pure users to test a Tribe Live CD
[05:27] <pitti> mdz: well, it may simply be that my quality expectations of an announced test CD are too high then :)
[05:27] <dendrobates> mdz: mathiaz and I were just discussing the need for uat,
[05:27] <bryce> Keybuk: same here
[05:27] <pitti> ok, thanks all, no need to block the entire meeting with that
[05:28] <pitti> I think I'll write some ideas and a summary to distro-team@
[05:28] <mdz> dendrobates: uat?
[05:28] <mdz> pitti: ok
[05:28] <dendrobates> user acceptance testing.
[05:28] <pitti> oh, and most of all:
[05:28] <Hobbsee> pitti: could you CC me on that, if appropriate, as i'm interested in it as well
[05:28] <mdz> [ACTION]  pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail
[05:28] <pitti> thanks to the entire team for your great work and the night shifts!
[05:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail
[05:28] <mdz> pitti: I think ubuntu-devel would be more appropriate
[05:29] <ogra> pitti, i really think mvo deserves an extra hug from us all ;)
[05:29] <pitti> and calc, too!
[05:29] <ogra> yeah
[05:29] <BenC> team hug!
[05:29] <mdz> [TOPIC]  (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release
[05:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release
[05:29] <pitti> mvo: yeah, indeed, no OMGnodesktop!! things this time
[05:29] <mvo> Hobbsee: that would be me! *yyyuuuahhhh*
[05:29] <Hobbsee> mvo: :D
[05:29] <asac> pitti: yes ... many thanks!
[05:30] <Keybuk> mvo: well done!
[05:30] <pitti> (oh god, I 0wn the schedule, it seems)
[05:30] <Keybuk> (for compiz in general)
[05:30] <mvo> we even fixed the nasty --replace issue
[05:30] <bryce> :-)
[05:30] <pitti> so, apart from all the fuss about new features and getting gutsy fixed, etc., we still need to get dapper.2 out
[05:30] <pitti> since we are falling behind on the dapper.2 schedule due to ENOTIME, I have a question, mostly to mdz
[05:31] <cjwatson> two out of three of the installer fixes are in -proposed; the other is in my editor
[05:31] <pitti> should we rather cut down on the dapper.2 goals, or give this more time to solve them all and slip the end-august release?
[05:31] <mdz> pitti: what kind of tasks need to be done?
[05:31] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 (sort by status preferably)
[05:31] <mdz> pitti: making a good point release is more important than the tentative schedule
[05:31] <mdz> pitti: but the reason it was set was to avoid clashing with the beta
[05:32] <pitti> the kernel team is much over-represented in the assignee list, due to dapper.2 mostly being a 'get it working wiht new hw' thing
[05:32] <cjwatson> also two point releases are harder than one longer one
[05:32] <cjwatson> (oo-er)
[05:32] <mdz> pitti: looks like mostly kernel work?
[05:32] <BenC> Yeah, kernel work is in progress
[05:32] <pitti> mdz: I just didn't know how firm the date is wrt. business partners etc.
[05:32] <BenC> I expect to have a kernel to cjwatson by tomorrow to roll an ISO for testing
[05:32] <mdz> pitti: we haven't announced the date yet, so if you want to propose a more realistic one, pleas edo
[05:32] <pitti> mdz: many bugs are even simple things like loading a module in initramfs
[05:32] <cjwatson> BenC: note that I'm on holiday all next week
[05:32] <cjwatson> (and nowhere near a computer)
[05:33] <BenC> cjwatson: so am I
[05:33] <mdz> pitti: I explicitly didn't announce it at ubuntu live for this reason
[05:33] <pitti> some are quite tricky kernel fixes, and we have a couple of needsinfo bugs which still need judgement from kernel guys
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: good to know then
[05:33] <BenC> pitti: ah, I didn't realize there were any kernel bugs that weren't confirmed in the list
[05:33] <pitti> some changes in mysql, too
[05:33] <pitti> BenC: not many, I think #26940 only ATM
[05:34] <BenC> pitti: I'll review the bugs today
[05:34] <mdz> pitti: can you take some time to estimate an achievable schedule, and we'll discuss that?
[05:34] <pitti> those are the things were I'm not qualified to judge eligibility (or even feasibility) for dapper.2
[05:34] <mdz> (probably based on Ben's review)
[05:34] <pitti> yes, can do
[05:34] <mdz> [ACTION]  pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2
[05:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2
[05:34] <pitti> BenC: can we meet at some time to go over the list and write down some estimations?
[05:35] <BenC> pitti: tomorrow, my morning, sound ok?
[05:35] <pitti> BenC: good for me
[05:35] <pitti> then we should also fine-tune assignees
[05:35] <BenC> [ACTION]  BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs
[05:35] <mdz> [TOPIC]  pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away
[05:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away
[05:35] <mdz> [ACTION]  BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs
[05:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs
[05:35] <BenC> bot ACLs suck :)
[05:36] <mdz> BenC: no, according to the web page it's only the chair for that command
[05:36] <pitti> BenC: /nick privilege escalation \o/
[05:36] <BenC> ah
[05:36] <mdz> I think that in general, MootBot should listen to actions from everyone, but automatically assign the action to the person ;-)
[05:37] <pitti> so, we need an experienced RM to take over tribe 5&6 and dapper.2 (cjwatson or Mithrandir?)
[05:37] <BenC> hehe, that will reduce the abuse
[05:37] <mdz> Mithrandir is going to be flat out on mobile during that time
[05:37] <pitti> not sure if Hobbsee has some time to assist?
[05:37] <mdz> I think he is already oversubscribed
[05:37] <Mithrandir> mdz: I am already fully booked, yes.
[05:38] <Hobbsee> pitti: maybe.  it will depend on how much people want to work as a team, etc, and how much time i have
[05:38] <Hobbsee> looks like cjwatson just got voluntold to do it :P
[05:38] <pitti> I also expect tribe 6 to be much calmer, with FF and UVF being in place then
[05:39] <pitti> tribe 5 is probably tough again, with lots of features getting rushed in (necessarily)
[05:39] <cjwatson> cjwatson is not exactly undersubscribed either
[05:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: obviously, i'm not in a position to take control of it, unfortunately
[05:39] <pitti> Hobbsee: right
[05:39] <cjwatson> I can help, but not take full responsibility
[05:39] <Hobbsee> although i'd sure like to
[05:40] <mdz> pitti: we need someone who is a cdimage admin?
[05:40] <pitti> mdz: and an archive admin, and some soyuz knowledge
[05:40] <Keybuk> Riddell: would you be interested?  you have the above and experience getting releases out
[05:40] <pitti> although I don't expect every tribe to take as much soyuz h4ck1ng as I had to do in the past two days :)
[05:40] <cjwatson> cdimage admin nature is easier, it's just the end-stage
[05:40] <mdz> [LINK]  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2
[05:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2
[05:41] <pitti> yeah, building CDs is simple
[05:41] <cjwatson> soyuz prodding is more frequently needed really
[05:41] <pitti> steering soyuz is more difficult
[05:41] <Hobbsee> pitti: presumably you're doing the release, afterwards?
[05:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: fwiw, I've yet to hack soyuz, ever.
[05:41] <pitti> and having some archive admin experience
[05:41] <Riddell> Keybuk: possibly, of course I'm busy with other things but then so is everyone else
[05:41] <mdz> pitti: could adam help with soyuz steering?
[05:41] <pitti> Hobbsee: I don't think so
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: absolutely, if he can make room for that
[05:42] <Hobbsee> pitti: oh, so that's going to fall to the person who will be selected too.  big call, then
[05:42] <pitti> having our archive team and infinity assisting the RM with the soyuz guts will work
[05:42] <mdz> pitti: check with elmo, but he's qualified
[05:43] <mdz> pitti: is that satisfactory then?
[05:43] <mdz> Riddell(?) + archive team + infinity(or someone else who can drive soyuz)
[05:44] <pitti> Riddell: if you are ok with it, I would be happy with that
[05:44] <pitti> and spreading the archive/soyuz work out will help a lot, too
[05:44] <Hobbsee> that'll certainly be interesting
[05:44] <Riddell> I'm no soyuz expert, but other than than I can
[05:45] <pitti> so RM: please push that package into the archive -- archive/soyuz guys steer publisher/queue-builder/queue etc.
[05:45] <mdz> it will be a challenge to fill his shoes, but Martin deserves a honeymoon :-)
[05:45] <pitti> Riddell: infinity is, and he generally works on insane (IOW European) hours anyway
[05:45] <pitti> \o/
[05:45] <Riddell> :)
[05:45] <cjwatson> Riddell: I think we have enough people with the necessary combination of domain knowledge and outright bravery for that
[05:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: all australians seem to work on european hours.  australian hours suck!
[05:45] <pitti> I am allowed to take the laptop with me, but I'll be a divorced man if I'll sit at it all day :)
[05:46] <cjwatson> advice from a married man: DO NOT TAKE THE LAPTOP ON YOUR HONEYMOON
[05:46] <mdz> pitti: [ACTION]  pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday?
[05:46] <pitti> cjwatson: maybe that's a good piece of advice
[05:46] <fabbione> cjwatson: ++
[05:46] <BenC> cjwatson: but if you have to, don't take it to bed
[05:46] <mdz> [ACTION]  pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday
[05:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday
[05:46] <BenC> it's not an enhancement to the mood for sure
[05:47] <calc> cjwatson: hehe, i did but had very sporadic internet access so it was ok ;)
[05:47] <mdz> Handholding the apport retracers; I filed RT#28728 to make this possible, and I will write some documentation about it; seb128 offered to help out here already
[05:47] <pitti> yeah, I still need to get that solved before other people can drive it
[05:47] <pitti> (nothing to discuss here, though)
[05:47] <mdz> ok
[05:47] <pitti> now with the tribe behind me I'll continue documentation writing
[05:47] <mdz> SRU bug handling and archive processing
[05:47] <asac> pitti: i have no experience with those so far, but would volunteer as well ... if there is documentation and a short introduction
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: oh, could you bump the priority of that RT perhaps?
[05:48] <seb128> I'm happy to deal with the retracer
[05:48] <pitti> asac: appreciated
[05:48] <pitti> once the RT is solved, I'll give you a tutorial
[05:48] <pitti> and a howto for the occasional hiccups
[05:48] <asac> right ;)
[05:48] <mdz> pitti: will do
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: thank you
[05:49] <mdz> [ACTION]  mdz to learn about the RT priority scheme and set an appropriate one for #28728
[05:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to learn about the RT priority scheme and set an appropriate one for #28728
[05:49] <pitti> seb128: we need an apport deskbar plugin!
[05:49] <pitti> btw, are those action points published somewhere by this cute little MootBot?
[05:49] <seb128> pitti: to do what?
[05:49] <pitti> seb128: let's find out :)
[05:50] <seb128> pitti: if you have a quick web browser bookmark you can already use it from deskbar ;)
[05:50] <pitti> seb128: find dups or so :)
[05:50] <pitti> seb128: (just kidding anyway)
[05:50] <Hobbsee> pitti: yes, they get published.  somewhere.
[05:50] <mdz> (maybe) language pack building; this should not take any manual intervention actually, so it's not that crucial.
[05:50] <pitti> (nothing to discuss, will take that up with Arne)
[05:50] <mdz> ok
[05:51] <mdz> [TOPIC]  Other business
[05:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
[05:51] <mdz> anything else for the meeting?
[05:51] <Riddell> was I being volunteered for dapper or next tribe release management?
[05:51] <pitti> Riddell: you are now
[05:51] <doko> Riddell: soyzuz work without having access to the machines is limited
[05:51] <pitti> fabbione: *sheding a tear*
[05:51] <BenC> fabbione: you will be missed
[05:52] <Keybuk> Riddell: yes :-)
[05:52] <ogra> ciao fabbione
[05:52] <Hobbsee> Riddell: both, it seems
[05:52] <fabbione> :)
[05:52] <tkamppeter> What about CUPS? Should we stay with 1.2.12 or move to 1.3?
[05:52] <bryce> cya fabbione!
[05:52] <kwwii> bye fabbione
[05:52] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, good question; and s-c-p
[05:52] <amitk> bye fabbione
[05:52] <mdz> fabbione will not be going too far
[05:52] <pitti> tkamppeter: what kind of feedback did you get so far?
[05:52] <mathiaz> bye fabbione
[05:52] <ogra> pitti, student-control-panel ?
[05:52] <mdz> but perhaps not staying into the evening for distro meetings if he doesn't have to ;-)
[05:52] <pitti> ogra: system-config-printer
[05:52] <pitti> ogra: yay TLAs :)
[05:53] <fabbione> mdz: yeah... just the next room :)
[05:53] <asac> bye fabbione
[05:53] <ogra> pitti, ouch ... evil
[05:53] <pitti> TBH it's much less evil now
[05:53] <tkamppeter> pitti, unfortunately no feedback at all, and I have posted on the devel-discuass list, no answer.
[05:53] <ogra> pitti, luckily we renamed to thin-client-manager :)
[05:53] <pitti> we recently discussed some UI enhancements in #u-devel
[05:53] <ogra> pitti, i only meant the naming :P
[05:53] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm
[05:53] <Skiessi> why gutsy has still SDL 1.2.11? why not 1.2.12?
[05:54] <cjwatson> Skiessi: -> #ubuntu-devel
[05:54] <Skiessi> okay
[05:55] <mdz> pitti: perhaps you and tkamppeter can discuss on #-devel after the meeting?
[05:55] <tkamppeter> pitti, for the s-c-p I think we should take it, g-c-m shows also a driver4 selection screen and it also shows the USB backend entries for printers which are supported by HPLIP. So the add printer wizard is not much better.
[05:55] <tkamppeter> OK, mdz.
[05:55] <pitti> ok
[05:56] <mdz> [ACTION]  tkamppeter and pitti to discuss CUPS version, etc.
[05:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tkamppeter and pitti to discuss CUPS version, etc.
[05:56] <mdz> that's a wrap, folks
[05:56] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[05:56] <pitti> MootBot: --help
[05:56] <fabbione> bye bye
[05:56] <mdz> #endmeeting
[05:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:49.
[05:56] <BenC> bye everyone
[05:56] <BenC> thanks mdz
[05:56] <pitti> thanks everyone
[05:56] <mvo> thanks
[05:56] <kwwii> thanks all
[05:56] <evand> thanks
[05:56] <mdz> MootBot: your watch is slow
[05:56] <mathiaz> thanks all.
[05:56] <amitk> thanks & bye
[05:56] <ArneGoetje> Good night everyone...
[05:56] <pitti> mdz: how do we get the action items from that thing now?
[05:56] <ogra> thanks
[05:56] <agoliveira> Bye all. Now for the embedded meeting :)
[05:57] <pitti> mdz: I guess /lastlog will work :)
[05:57] <seb128> thanks
[05:57] <ArneGoetje> pitti: when do you have time to fill me into the Language Pack thingy?
[05:57] <asac> bye
[05:58] <Keybuk> MootBot: aren't you supposed to do the "the summary is available at" thing?
[05:58] <Keybuk> YOUR MANUAL SAYS YOU DO!!!
[05:58] <ogra> *grin*
[05:58] <pitti> ArneGoetje: not before next week, I'm afraid; I still need to write some documentation before
[05:58] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: second sign of insanity:  yelling at a bot.
[05:58] <pitti> MootBot: *bark*
[05:59] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok. but maybe we should arrange some time for live chat, in case I have some questions :)
[05:59] <Keybuk> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20070809_1506.html
[05:59] <pitti> ArneGoetje: yes, absolutely
[05:59] <pitti> shiny
[05:59] <ArneGoetje> pitti: good. please assing some time then, you are busier than me. ;)
[06:00] <pitti> ArneGoetje: wait until you have worked in the distro team for half a year :-P
[06:00] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yeah...
[06:01] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: since I'm going on holiday next week, please remind me tomorrow to have a call with you, seeing as we haven't actually spoken since you started ;)
[06:02] <ArneGoetje> pitti: anyways, for me any time is fine as long as it is scheduled in advance. If necessary, I'll also do a night shift.
[06:02] <mdz> cjwatson: hmm, and henrik isn't back until 22 Aug
[06:02] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok, I will be available any time before 15:00 UTC.
[06:03] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: BTW: do you have skype? should be cheaper and better quality to call. ;)
[06:03] <cjwatson> mdz: ouch
[06:04] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I don't, I'm afraid
[06:04] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: we'll just keep the call short and shout :-)
[06:04] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: :D ok, then...  maybe it's better to call landline.
[06:05] <cjwatson> /init: /init: 1: cannot open /dev/fd0: No such device or address
[06:05] <cjwatson> r
[06:06] <ogra> oh, wow, running the live system from multiple floppies ?
[06:07] <Amaranth> it'd only take 500 of them, no big deal
[06:08] <pitti> cjwatson: oh, you see that? I have that on my gf's computer, but I blamed the broken floppy in it
[06:09] <ArneGoetje> ok, if tehre is nothing else to discuss with me, I'm going to bed now. :)
[06:10] <bryce> cya
[06:10] <cjwatson> pitti: happens in vmware with no floppy attached
[06:10] <cjwatson> just wondering what the heck is looking at floppies in the first place
[06:11] <pitti> wow
[06:11] <pitti> cjwatson: maybe it's initramfs looking for an UUID of its root fs, and just happening to probe it or so?
[06:11] <cjwatson> could be
[06:14] <pitti> cjwatson: oh, wait, that's booting the live cd, right? no UUID there
[06:14] <cjwatson> live CD, yes