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lenkawellmdz, can you talk at 1000 EDT?03:21
mdzlenkawell: yes03:32
mdzlenkawell: I have two hours of back-to-back meetings prior to that, but if they don't run over, I should be fine03:32
lenkawellmdz, sounds good, thanks03:36
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Mithrandirhiya Mauri, Ken05:56
agoliveiraHi all.05:57
kwwiihi 05:57
=== agoliveira is starving. Those back-to-back meetings about lunch time here are killing me :)
=== rusty wonders if agoliveira started working for Intel
Mithrandirhiya rusty; it's been a while.05:58
rustygood vacation?05:58
=== agoliveira is still wating for Mauri's call :-D
mawhalenHi Adilson06:00
mawhalenAny Samsung yet?06:01
agoliveiramawhalen: Hi. I wish :(06:01
Mithrandirrusty: yes, absolutely.  Spent a couple of days riding around in the mountains.06:01
mawhalenI sent information to somebody in Brazil that made me think it was on it's way...I'll check again.  06:01
agoliveiramawhalen: 2 days ago I received an email from Sulamita stating that it was sent but if they sent on that day should be here yesterday already.06:02
=== rusty imagines agoliveira's samsung being paddled up some remote section of an Amazon tributary
kwwiiI won't even ask about mine then06:02
Mithrandirkwwii: not shipped yet.06:02
Mithrandirok, shall we start?  Charlie is on vacation and not here this week.06:02
agoliveiramawhalen: I already asked Sulamita for the tracking number but she didn't answer yet. If you could find this for me I can track it down.06:03
mawhalenTodd - you on?06:03
Toddya, I'm here06:03
rustyBob is still on vacation 06:03
agoliveirarusty: I don't know why you north-americans have this fixation with the Amazon :)06:03
jacob-laptophi everyone06:03
mawhalenMithrandir: Todd Brandt is now joining, he is working on the Control Panel and applets06:03
Mithrandirmawhalen: ah, good.06:03
MithrandirTodd: welcome.06:03
ToddHello :)06:04
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rustywell, looks who's here?06:04
MithrandirI've just recently come back from vacation, so I failed to post an agenda to the list.  I propose we do the usual; status updates and any discussion items.06:04
Mithrandiranybody have any discussion items already?06:05
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mawhalenIs Rob on?06:05
rustyrob_, you listening?06:05
mawhalenMithrandir: I'd like Rob to give an update on what we are doing with SDIO06:05
ToddI have one: I've selected a starting source base for he control panel applets using the gnome-control-center code, I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions on that06:05
agoliveiraMithrandir: Nothing new from my side.06:05
mawhalenMithrandir: I'd also like to talk about Email06:06
Mithrandirmawhalen: sdio goes with the kernel update?06:06
mawhalenMithrandir: what do you mean by kernel update?  For 7.10 or 7.10.1?06:07
Mithrandirno, the status update. :-)06:07
Mithrandirso it doesn't need a separate agenda item06:07
mawhalenMithrandir: oh - yes.06:07
Mithrandirlet's go through the specs then.  I don't have much in the way of updates from me, because of said vacation.  Adilson, please fill in when you have something. :-)06:08
Mithrandirmobile-app-framework: I'm pondering just marking this as "done", since hildon's there, and works.06:08
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Mithrandirso unless anybody has any questions, we'll move on to browser.06:09
Mithrandirbspencer,asac : do you have an update on the browser status?06:09
asacyeah :)06:09
asacgood that its at the beginning ... because i am about to leave ;)06:09
asacwe uploaded a midbrowser update that ships new branding iirc06:09
asacnow we discuss how to best hildonize it ...06:10
asaci would have a question about that06:10
asachow does hildon theme its application/program menu? can we theme normal GtkMenu in the same way?06:10
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Mithrandirin general, I think you want to use hildon menus, and they'll get the right theme automatically?06:11
bspencerall hildon apps use the same theme for the menu06:11
bspencerwhich is system wide -- is that your question?06:11
rob_hi all06:11
asaci know that normal GtkMenus are not used in other apps, but it would ease hildonizing mozilla a lot if we could just apply the same theme on GtkMenus06:11
mfreyhas anyone looked at the just release maemo browser?06:12
mfreybased on mozilla06:12
bspencermfrey -- hold that thought...06:12
bspencerasac: but GtkMenu has the menu across the top06:12
agoliveiramfrey: I did test it and works very well.06:12
asacbspencer: no thats not the point :) ... its just about the theme of the pop-up06:12
bspencerand we have to use a hildon menu to put the menu in the drop-down list06:12
asacthe idea is to introduce libmozhildon which plainly listens for the X events hildon listens to and pops-up xul popups instead06:13
asacfrom what i saw in libhildon code it should be not too hard06:13
asacto mimic that behaviour06:13
bspencerok.  worth taking a look06:13
asachowever ... if normal GtkMenus would be rendered in the same way as the hildon drop-down it would help a lot06:14
bspencerasac: I chatted with Nokia guys about something similar, which is to change Gtk to behave as Hildon so apps don't have to port06:14
asacbspencer: i think its the most efficient way to go ... but we can talk about that outside this meeting06:14
bspencerasac: yeah, I like the idea.  Let's chat offline06:15
asacbspencer: well it doesn't help for us ... mozilla doesn't use GtkMenu et al06:15
asacbspencer: and we would get full xul'ish behaviour automatically06:15
bfillerwhat is the diff between midbrowser on launchpad and Mobile Internet Browser on mobiln?06:16
asacbfiller: the link is still wrong on moblin06:16
cwong1asac: I fixed that yesterday06:16
asacbfiller: the right git repository is a bit in advance 06:16
asaccwong1: ah ok ... thanks06:16
bfillerso it's the same code?06:16
asaccwong1: we have now our own xul window for application in git ... which we don't have in latest release.06:16
asacbfiller: it has progressed, but yes ... we release from there06:17
bspencerso source is moblin --> launchpad --> ubuntu-mobile06:18
bspenceris that right?06:18
asacmoblin has pristine upstream repository -> launchpad adds debian/ -> ubuntu-mobile has ubuntu packages06:18
bspencercan we talk a little about ETA for some features... or is it too soon?06:19
asacwelll toolbar on bottom is already in git06:19
asacwe can actually strip down ui now as we need06:19
asacfor now we should just assume that the top level menu is the hildon menu06:19
bspencerright.  Fine for starters.06:19
cwong1hildonize it is the next big item to do06:20
asacit will end up to be renamed to <hildonmenu> ... and adapted to X events by libmozhildon ... if all works out well ;)06:20
asacat least that is my vision06:20
asacadaption can be done through normal xbl06:20
asace.g. introduce the hildonmenu tag which represents an invisible menu that pops-up if it gets some event06:20
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bspenceranything else for midbrowser?06:22
agoliveiracwong1: One factor that I took in consideration when I selected the applications was the capability to hildonize so we should have no big problems with that. At least I hope so :)06:22
bspencermfrey asked: has anyone looked at the just release maemo browser?06:22
asacbspencer: well ... it would be nice if someone could look if and how its possible to theme GtkMenu Popups in the same way as hildon menu06:22
bspencercwong1 did a little.  and rusty too06:22
bspencerasac: ok.  cwong1 and I will chat about that today06:23
asacbspencer: thanks06:23
bspencerabout maemo browser -- it is a GtkMozEmbed-based browser.06:23
bspencerI think it is a viable alternative to our work, with different goals06:24
bspencerI think we still need a full xul-based solution, which is what we are creating06:24
bspencerbut we can also port the maemo browser too.  06:24
bspencerin time...06:24
bspencermfrey: ok?06:24
mfreyI agree that we need a full XUL based browser06:24
mfreybut I have not looked at the source06:25
mfreyfor the maemo one yet06:25
rustyhas anyone been able to build the maemo browser?  When i looked at it the source was pretty confusing06:25
mfreybut I do like they UI concepts 06:25
agoliveirarusty: I tried for like 30 min and gave up.06:25
rustythe project is really a bunch of projects, with undocumented dependencies06:26
mfreyWhere is the source -- I can have a look06:26
bspencerobfuscation is their talent :-\06:26
rustyi'm not sure the obfustication was on purpose06:26
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rustymight just be they way they developer thinks about the problem06:27
rustyif he had a README then it would make life a lot easier06:27
asacmfrey: what ui concepts do you refer to?06:27
=== asac looking at http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/maemo-org.png
mfreyI guess I just mean the integrated hildonized toolbar.06:28
rustyWhen i used the browser while at GUADEC, it provided some of the same iPhone like features where you could zoom in on a page... but not as well done as the iPhone06:29
asacok ... yes so its not their UI concept06:29
mfreyIt also seems that the code is based on gecko 1.9 that supports zooming (which I think is important)06:29
asacwell ... we won't be able to use 1.9 in stable releases in the near future i guess06:29
bspencerFor the sake of time, I recommend we move forward...06:30
agoliveiramfrey: You're right.06:30
=== agoliveira agrees
asacmfrey: maybe thats the reason it fails to build?06:30
asaci have to go06:30
=== asac waves
Mithrandirsee you, asac.06:30
Mithrandirmobile-graphics; is there anybody around who can give an update?06:30
rustywe could ask about the state of integrating what has already been handed over?06:31
agoliveirabye asac06:31
Mithrandirbryce's not here, but I could summarise it.06:31
Mithrandirhe's packaged up the bits we've been given, I don't think they're uploaded yet.06:32
MithrandirI'm not sure what's holding that up.06:32
Mithrandirhe's also started on the libdrm merge, merging in the bits from your code into our package.06:32
Mithrandirand he's going to your campus this week (iirc) to work on getting everything working.06:33
bspenceron a related note...sorry for being out of touch, but did we resolve the Keith-Packard-patch to the xserver, and is that finished?06:33
Mithrandirbspencer: yes, that's fixed.06:33
rustyMithrandir, i have another agenda item that i just remembered that i would like to add to the queue.... its about the state of all the various packages that make up a *-full-mobile-stack06:33
rob_Mithrandir, bryce will be here today, this afternoon06:34
Mithrandirok, coolie06:34
rob_what about the kernel module needed for the 2-d driver?06:34
Mithrandirit should be in, I thought.06:34
Mithrandiramitk: can you confirm that?06:34
amitkMithrandir: it should go in tomorrow06:34
Mithrandirok, good06:34
Mithrandirany more questions for -graphics, or move on?06:34
agoliveiraA warning: I just received a call from the phone company that they may have to disconnect me for about 1 hour for repairs (a pole in the corner was hit by a truck this mornig) so don't worry if I just become irresponsive all the sudden.06:35
rob_and bryce will be picking up a crown beach system today too06:35
Mithrandiroh, great.06:35
Mithrandirnext item, image creation.06:36
Mithrandirwe've had some trouble with the image creator, again; it's a bit on the brittle side.06:36
rustyMithrandir, a lot of problems are the result of not having up-to-date packages in gutsy (from moblin)06:37
rustyproblems with the UME build, that is06:37
Mithrandirwe should add that to the list of stuff to discuss -- how to avoid that happening.06:37
rustyin other words, if you are using image-creator off moblin, then there is an  apt configuration to pull from the moblin apt repository (in addition to gutsy)06:37
rustyif you remove that configuration then you see the same thing that the automated UME build is kicking out06:38
rustyso we just need to figure out what all packages need updated in gutsy06:38
rustythere has been a log of work 06:38
agoliveiraI don't see many alternatives but automate the sync or keep using moblin repos.06:38
Mithrandirrusty: our build host is firewalled and can't access moblin.org06:39
Mithrandirthat's not going to change, so "using moblin repos" is not an alternative.06:39
rustythat's cool, and it helps us find these kind of errors06:39
agoliveiraHmmm... didnt' know that06:39
rustybut this explains why using the UME images have all kinds of problems that we fixed already06:40
Mithrandirit'd probably help if you prodded me when you have stuff you want uploaded.06:40
rustyis there some way to do a diff between apt repositories... to at least see what packages are newer on moblin?06:40
rustyMithrandir, the deal is that our build is automatically kicked off when ever anyone commits a change into the code06:41
Mithrandiryou can use apt-cache policy on the relevant packages, and see where it tries to pull from06:41
agoliveirarusty: COuldn't you also create and provide the images?06:43
Mithrandiran improvement I coded in last night is the creator now makes .manifest files besides the image, listing what's in it.06:43
Mithrandirso that should make Charlie happier and make it easier to see what's in an image.06:44
MithrandirI think we should move on.06:44
bspencerMithrandir: I like that feature06:44
Mithrandir-kernel; what's going on there?06:44
bspencerMithrandir: good for testing too.06:44
amitk2D driver should go in tomorrow06:44
amitkI am testing the build right now06:44
amitkrob_: should I integrate the SDIO patches, or are we getting updates?06:44
amitkstorage driver was switched to piix instead of ata to get DMA performance improvements on jacob-laptop's request06:45
rob_amitk, you should integrate them, but we need to talk about a longer term strategy about what to do about sdio06:45
rob_amitk, we've got libata support now working and it's checked in our kernel on moblin.org -- we're in the process of reviewing it06:46
amitkrob_: great06:46
amitkI should be receiving the updated/cleaned-up patch for thermal optimisations tomorrow06:47
amitkonce I get the go-ahead I will merge that as well06:47
amitkSo after the 2D DRM, I have two things on my list - SDIO and thermal06:48
amitkAnything else that is needed from the kernel?06:48
rob_amik: as you know, all work on our current MSS sdio patch has stopped and we're working w/ Pierre's SDIO stack...we think we can have that working pretty well on Menlow by end of September...but is that too late for inclusion?06:48
amitkrob_: Sept might be very late yes. Mithrandir can comment our Ubuntu policy in these cases06:49
rob_amitk, i keep hearing that adding a new feature patch like that will be difficult past the august feature freeze06:49
rob_amitk, MSS and Pierre's code could reside in the same kernel -- we could put it in before the feature freeze and then provide bug fix over the course of development06:50
rob_it's a config option would enable one or the other 06:51
amitkrob_: I will have to talk to the kernel team. I will get back to you on this.06:51
rob_amitk, ok06:52
Mithrandirok, anything more about kernel?06:52
rob_Mithrandir, i've got nothing more06:52
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Mithrandirok; move on to UI.06:52
Mithrandirbspencer_: do you have an update on that?06:53
bspencer_Mithrandir I too have been out for 2wk vacation and just back this morning.06:53
Mithrandirok, so it's probably better if you send that update to the list, then?06:53
bspencer_We have two things going:  working with ken wimer to create UI, and working to get a simple non-flash UI up soon06:53
bspencer_non-flash UI that behaves similar to current flash UI.  Very simple.06:54
Mithrandirinteresting; what are you basing that on?06:54
bspencer_Ken's will take a bit of work and some changes too.  06:54
bspencer_the simple UI is hopefully do-able in a shorter time frame.06:54
bspencer_Mithrandir: we are currently looking at Clutter06:55
Mithrandiryou're in touch with kwwii about the theme, I hope?06:55
bspencer_yes, thanks.   kwwii also is working on a real theme06:56
bspencer_he knows much more about this than I06:56
kwwiiwe need to get the format in line before we can start testing the first stuff06:56
bspencer_but we discussed after our meeting a couple of weeks ago the steps to create.06:56
bspencer_kwwii: hello!06:56
kwwiiie. we need to be able to start from one large pic in the build process or such06:56
kwwiihi bspencer_06:56
Mithrandirthe theme builder has that support, as you know06:57
agoliveirabspencer_: The idea is to keep the aspect, functionality, etc or do something else?06:57
kwwiiI started playing with the SVG - I guess we'll have to take note as we go on what needs to be changed06:57
kwwiiMithrandir: everythin I have seen until now was cut up pics...do you have a link to that?06:57
agoliveirakwwii: link to the theme tools?06:58
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bspencer_agoliveira: don't understand your question06:58
Mithrandirapt-get source hildon-theme-plankton and look at template/template.png06:58
kwwiiagoliveira: yes, if that is what I need to go from the theme-in-one-pic to a usable version06:59
mdz(hi, guys, I'm finished with the server meeting so dropping in late)06:59
kwwiiMithrandir: right, but that does not show how the cutter-upper works and how to tweak it06:59
kwwiisorry for the technical terms :p06:59
Mithrandirkwwii: point.  sabotage's link might help with that07:00
agoliveirabspencer_: I meant if it the nun-flash UI would be the same (aspect, functionality, etc) as the flash version or it would change the way it works07:00
sabotageI've used it to build my own themes for my N770 in the past07:00
kwwiiyeah, if we wanted to simply change the look of the Nokia stuff it would be enough07:00
kwwiibut out stuff is different by design07:00
bspencer_agoliveira: same to start, then improve gradually07:00
sabotagebut it needs to be modified to match the planned layout for UME 07:01
kwwiisabotage: that would be killer :-)07:01
sabotagewhich means we have to finalize and document our layout ;)07:01
sabotageexact sizes/dimensions etc... and that then only works for one formfactor, so then you need options or alterantives for other aspect ratios07:02
Mithrandirok, so this needs some serious attention.07:02
kwwiisabotage: right, I've started to mess with things, but it will take some time07:03
agoliveirakwwii: There's the hildon-theme-tools package that does this for the original maemo tools.07:03
agoliveirakwwii: I meant maemo themes07:03
Mithrandirok, let's move on07:03
kwwiiagoliveira: cool, I'll check that out, once I find it in launchpad :-)07:04
sabotageagoliviera, correct, but again they make assumptions on the target screen size 07:04
Mithrandirskipping window manager07:04
Mithrandiramitk: any update on the power thermal optimisations?07:04
kwwiiit is clear that the tools as-is are not going to be enough07:04
Mithrandirseems like amitk isn't around right now, so moving on.07:07
kwwiime cooks dinner for the family...bbl07:07
Mithrandirskipping USB client, since Charlie's not here; we're then at the utilities.07:07
Mithrandiraka the control panel bits.07:07
bspencer_is Todd here?07:08
ToddBasically I have a list of starting source bases that I want your opinion on07:08
Toddlemme paste 9 lines07:08
ToddPower Management           Power Policy Management (Intel)07:08
ToddConnection Management      gnome-control-center:Network Proxy, gnome-system-tools:Network07:08
ToddTouchscreen calibration    Possibly the touchscreen library (tslib) from DirectFB?07:08
ToddScreen brightness          Possibly the backlight code from gnome-power-manager?07:08
ToddUser theming customization gnome-control-center:Theme/Theme Installer07:08
ToddFont size / screen size    gnome-control-center:(Font, Screen Resolution)07:08
ToddHardware button config     gnome-control-center:Keyboard Shortcuts07:08
ToddVolume Controls            gnome-control-center:Sound                                                 07:08
ToddSystem Information         gnome-system-tools:System Monitor                                        07:08
ToddThese are the targetted areas of control panel functionality and the source bases I think best to start from07:09
Todddo they look ok?07:09
Mithrandirthe connection management bits; we've talked about network-manager for that07:09
lenkawellare you planning to modify the UI for these at all?07:09
rustyTodd, for the touchscreen calibration, there is an existing calibration application (that sucks) from the x driver07:09
mdzMithrandir: are we set up to do syncs from moblin? or doing separate source uploads?07:09
Mithrandirmdz: I'm doing source uploads.07:10
Toddlenkawell: yes, for each one, but we'll use the existing source as a base for how it should look and go from there07:10
mdzMithrandir: should we think about having a weekly(ish?) ritual of pulling in the latest updates from moblin? that might be more efficient than coming to you for each component update07:10
Toddmithrandir: for connection management, what has been decided? Have you already discussed reusing the gnome network manager code?07:11
mdzMithrandir: (sorry, I've read scrollback and am jumping around a bit)07:11
lenkawellTodd, do you have a schedule for when you think you'll get this in?07:11
MithrandirTodd: network-manager is divided into a backend and frontend, and it already works-ish if you just install it on a system today.07:11
MithrandirTodd: it seems to me much better to fix any problems there rather than build something on the not-very-good bits of gnome-control-center's network bits.07:12
Toddlenkawell: not yet, I'm going to port the gnome-control-center's netowrk proxy config code first to see how much work is needed to get this stuff into Hildon, then I'll have a better idea of the overall schedule07:12
Mithrandirmdz: we could do that.07:12
MithrandirTodd: the proxy code is very simple; it just sets a couple of gconf keys.07:12
mdzMithrandir: bspencer and I talked at OSCON about doing something similar with hildon updates07:13
mdzI don't know whether they do milestone releases, but in any case, we should track it in some fashion07:13
ToddMithrandir: yea, that's why I'm porting it first, to see how long the simplest possible app takes to port (I'm actually new to the application side, I'm a kernel guy, forgive me if I sound a nit naive)07:13
Mithrandirwe have patches for hildon, though.07:13
MithrandirTodd: ah, ok.  Sounds fine, then.07:14
bspencer_Todd: there's a thread discussing the network manager stuff on mailing list.  We can chat about it offline.07:14
agoliveiramdz: IFAIK, they only do milestones for the project as a whole and they had only 3 I think so far.07:14
=== bspencer_ is now known as bspencer
Toddbspencer: soudns great :)07:15
Mithrandirwhen do you expect we can see code drops?07:16
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bspencerTodd:  about control panel, the list is a great start.  Thanks for the investigation.07:16
bspencerMithrandir: are you asking about control panel or other?07:16
Mithrandirbspencer: the control panel bits.07:16
=== bspencer looks at Todd
ToddMithrandir: the biggest issue we have right now is a bug in the hildon-control-panel code that causes it to crash when loading applets in the moblin environment07:17
Mithrandirdo we have a workaround or fix for it, or not yet?07:17
bspencerTodd: I'll push again on the guys at nokia to help us resolve it this week.07:17
ToddMithrandir: the bug is in the Nokia code, so we need to sync with them to find a fix. I can't even run the hildon-control-panel code we have in Maemo 3.2 scratchbox because it's too new, scratchbox seems to only be able to run 2.2.x hildon-control-panel code07:18
ian_brasili will make a request about hildon also07:18
bspencerTodd: it is another exapmle of finding the right code -- the hildon svn repo is not always organized well07:18
Toddour source base is from their "refactoring" branch, which is so new it's unversioned :P07:18
MithrandirTodd: ok.  Tell me if there's something I can usefully help with.07:19
rustyMithrandir, but in the mean time the control panel applets can be developed using the older control panel in scratchpad07:19
Toddbspencer: yea that was a big problem07:19
Toddright, we can use scratchbox and Maemo 3.2 to develop these control panel apps for hildon-control-panel 2.2.10, but I wouldn't feel right making source drops to you guys without having actually tested them on the moblin platform07:20
Toddthis is the conundrum07:20
Mithrandirso we need to get that bug fixed or worked around.07:20
Mithrandiragoliveira: any chance you could help with that?  You've looked at quite a bit of hildon code already.07:20
agoliveiraMithrandir: Not as much as you may think but I'll be glad to give it a shot :)07:21
bspencerI think it is a small issue that nokia probably already has a fix for given they likely have a working control panel now.07:21
Mithrandirok, thanks.07:21
Mithrandirok, so we could try just pulling in their upstream changes first.07:21
bspencerwe'll get it done for next week.07:22
Toddbspencer: that would be great *crossing my fingers*07:22
Mithrandirmove on, then07:22
Mithrandirmedia player07:23
Mithrandirhow's it going in that camp?07:23
bspencerI must defer to rusty for any updates07:23
bspencerlast I know is I sent new graphics to team to integrate into UI07:23
rustythe media player is progressing, with a lot of work going into landing the music management bits07:24
rustyso you don't have the file-picker as your UI for playing media07:24
rustywe are also getting ready so submit some patches to the helixcommunity so that the helix-dbus-server can be used with the media player07:24
Mithrandiroh, goodie07:25
lenkawellrusty: is there a "functional spec" for the player? I know there's a UI spec, but it doesn't say much about the goals, capabilities, etc.07:25
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bspencerlenkawell: that could be created.  Not a bad idea.07:25
rustylenkawell, yes there is a functional spec... but i'm not sure if it's in an easy to find location on moblin07:26
lenkawellrusty: is the player going to support both helix and gstreamer simultaneously?07:26
rustywe just need to upload it07:26
rustylenkawell, yes07:26
rustythe media infrastructure is pulled out of the player via a dbus service07:26
Mithrandirok, move on?  Seems like the media player is coming along well07:27
rustyso as long as you have a service that implements the right dbus interface than it can be used with the player07:27
lenkawellrusty, ok, thanks07:27
Mithrandirthe build infrastructure is working, but falling over too often for my liking due to image-creator's brittleness. :-/  I'm working with Adam Conrad on fixing the bugs as I see them, but it takes time.07:27
rustya lot of the brittleness comes from the repository of packages, and not really the tool itself07:28
rustybut when people find bugs, please post a bug on the bugzilla at moblin.org07:29
=== agoliveira googles for "brittleness"
MithrandirI tend to just fix them. :-P07:29
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Mithrandiragoliveira: something that breaks easily.07:29
Mithrandirmoving on; the gnome components bit is still hung on me finding time to do it.07:29
agoliveiraian_brasil. Obrigado.07:29
Mithrandirso no update on that.07:29
agoliveiraMithrandir: thansk07:29
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Mithrandirhw-decode; is there any progress to report?  It's marked as "not started" which looks wrong.07:30
rustyit is started07:30
rustybut i don't have an update07:30
rustythat would be Charlie07:30
Mithrandirlet's skip it, then.07:31
MithrandirI'll mail the list asking for its status to be updated.07:31
=== agoliveira dreams about hagen dazs' Macadamia Nuts Brittle...
Mithrandirfor the development environment, I've made some progress, but run into some bugs in germinate, the tool we use for generating the seeds.07:31
Mithrandiras as workaround, I'll be seeding the necessary bits manually, I think.07:32
Mithrandirmoving on to the keyboard; status update?07:32
bspencermatchbox keyboard is working, with statusbar toggle07:33
bspencerstill working on auto-launch stuff07:33
rustyand with several styls07:33
Mithrandirit should probably not pop up the menu about what kind of keyboard you want each and every time you open it.07:33
bspencermm... haven't seen that.  agreed07:34
rustyit would make more sense if a control panel applet provided the ability to change your keyboard style07:34
rustyand clicking on the keyboard just opened your pref of a keyboard style07:34
Mithrandirsomething like that, or tap-and-hold to change07:34
bspencergood ideas  07:35
rustyoooo... fancy :->07:35
bspencerI'll follow up on that07:35
agoliveira tap-and-hold would be cool07:35
Mithrandirok, that's the status updates, then Mauri wanted to talk about email?07:35
Mithrandirmawhalen: email?07:35
agoliveiraI think she's away.07:35
mawhalenno - typing, hold on07:36
mawhalenagoliveira: Frank can work on email but needs some direction07:36
mawhalenI saw that you asked him for code, which we can give 07:36
agoliveiramawhalen: I already in contact with him.07:37
mawhalenI just wanted to get some expectation on what is really expected from him07:37
bspencerside thought:   iPhone uses POP to get emails and then puts them into consistent UI, regardless of gmail, or other source.   07:37
agoliveiramawhalen: As I explained to him, he needed to put Claws to wok on UME with the hildon interface.07:38
agoliveiraThe same I'm working on with the rest of the applications.07:38
mawhalenagoliveira: ok - communication is a little tougher with him in PRC07:39
agoliveiras/wok/work - Sorry, I'm really starving :)07:39
agoliveiramawhalen: Yes, usually takes a day.07:39
bspenceragoliveira: I can help bridge that a little07:39
agoliveirabspencer: Thanks we can see that after meeting.07:40
agoliveiraBut actually there's not much to it.07:40
mawhalenOK - we can take offline07:40
agoliveiramawhalen: No problem.07:41
Mithrandirmawhalen: ok, have you gotten the answers you need?07:41
mawhalenyes - thx07:42
Mithrandirsdio and control center applets has been covered, so rusty, "state of full stack"; your agenda item07:42
agoliveiramawhalen: Just a quick question: did you see my request about the tracking code?07:42
agoliveiraSorry, that was supposed to be private.07:42
agoliveiraPlease, go ahead Tollef07:42
rustyMithrandir, that agenda request was what we covered in the discussion of UME image builds not having what users expect because of packages that have yet to be pushed into gutsy07:43
mdzwhat was the resolution there?  poke Tollef when you release a new version?07:43
rustyi think the weekly sync would be a good solution07:44
MithrandirI'd be most comfortable with that, and not just blindingly syncing, but if the consensus is to just sync, then we'll do that.07:44
mdzso if I understand correctly, you guys are providing a .deb repository at moblin, and then we're also bringing that stuff into Ubuntu separately?07:44
Mithrandirfirst that = "poke me when you have something you want uploaded".07:44
rustymdz, yes, we have an automated build system such that anytime a developer updates some code, and new package is built and uploaded to an apt repository on moblin07:45
mdzin that case, we should be able to be fairly liberal about syncing07:45
rustymdz, but we have a manual process for pushing updates into gutsy07:45
mdzI'm assuming most of these developers are not touching the packages07:46
mdzs/packages/packaging metadata/07:46
mdzwe have a process whereby packages can be copied verbatim from external repositories into Ubuntu07:46
mdzso once the packaging has been vetted, we should be able to bring in code updates with minimal review07:46
mdzwe should also work toward having someone on the Intel side with privileges to push packages into Gutsy07:47
Mithrandiras in, getting them through motu and core-dev?07:47
mdzCanonical can provide community and engineering resources toward that goal07:48
mdzI'll follow up with an email about this07:49
Mithrandirsounds good.07:49
MithrandirI'd be happy to have more people who work on mobile being able to upload packages.07:49
rustydo we have other items.... i'm about to hit a hard stop07:51
Mithrandirno, I don't have anything more.07:51
Mithrandiranybody else?07:51
agoliveiraI would like to make a request07:51
agoliveiraIf it's not a problem, could we move this meeting to wednesday?07:51
agoliveiraor friday07:51
Mithrandirpreferably not, since I work late on Thursdays so I can have all those crazy-hour meetings then.07:52
Mithrandirwe could move it a bit later in the day.07:52
agoliveiraWell, if we could move 1 hour later would be great already.07:52
mdzThursday is better for me as well07:52
bspencernot sure we could hold onto asac and kwwii though if later.07:52
agoliveiraOk, just forget it then.07:52
mdzit's already fairly late for central Europe07:53
rustyanother possibility is rotating the time07:53
cwong1asac stays late07:53
Mithrandirthat'd work too07:53
agoliveiraIt's just that this back-to-back meetings around my linch time is really giving me some ill reactions.07:53
bspenceragoliveira: such a whiner :P07:53
Mithrandiragoliveira: eat before the meeting, then?07:53
agoliveiraToo early.07:53
Mithrandirwe should also try to cut down the length of the meeting.07:54
agoliveiraI can handle that it's a problem.07:54
bspenceragoliveira: tell your wife to pack you a sandwich and extra bag of chips07:54
MithrandirI tried to get people to send status reports to the list, and we can then have the real discussion items here.07:54
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bspencerMithrandir: good idea.  We had 30min browser discussion.  We can improve.07:54
Mithrandirthat works well for the distro meetings, but it didn't really pick up here, probably because people didn't see what I wanted to.07:55
agoliveirabspencer: I wish but the lunch is our main meal of the day here so I need a real meal.07:55
bspenceragoliveira: yes, and a nap after iirc07:55
agoliveirabspencer: No, naps are for the Mexicans :)07:55
Mithrandirit doesn't seem like anybody has any more business, so adjourned.07:56
mdzthanks, all07:56
bspenceragoliveira: you taking off for food now?07:56
bspencerwanted to chat briefly about email 07:56
bspencercould do it later07:56
ian_brasilhe has already gone :)07:56
agoliveiraI can wait a bit longer, I already got a headache :)07:56
bspencerjust a couple of things07:56
bspencerwe have Frank working on email now 07:57
bspencerhe's a smart guy, though not really an apps guy07:57
bspencera bit of direction from you and I would go a long way07:57
bspencerso if you have pointers about Claws or other, please send it our way.  And we'll try to get the source we are modifying uploaded early so you can contribute too if you have spare cycles07:58
agoliveiraI'm all for it. I already told him that I'm available but didn't have any news from him until I asked for it yesterday.07:58
agoliveirabspencer: Sorry but I don't have anything specific on it.07:58
agoliveiraBut I do have a tip:07:58
bspencerok.  I think he'll do a good job from the middle-ware side of things.  I'll try to help guide the UI polish stuff with him.07:58
=== bspencer waits for tip
agoliveiraI've being trying to remove libosso while keeping hildon interface. After some discussion today we figured out that would be more productive to hack libosso for our use so it would be much easier to port the applications.08:00
agoliveiraSo, that's what I'm about to start.08:00
agoliveiraIf all goes well should be much easier for him also.08:00
bspencerlibosso is for environment variables, #define's, etc, right?  Refresh my memory on its purpose08:01
agoliveiraBecause fro what I understood he didn't compile claws with hildon interface but gtk.08:01
agoliveiralibosso is a wrapper for d-bus, mostly used for proprietary stuff.08:01
bspencerright.  He started with basic Claws.  Is there already a maemo port?08:01
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agoliveir1Curretly we do have libosso but hacked to support as dependency. It does not work with current dbus08:02
agoliveir1Sorry, I went offline for a bit08:03
bspencerFrank started with basic Claws. Is there already a maemo port?08:03
agoliveir1bspencer: Yes, there is, that's one of the reasons I choose Claws.08:03
bspencerFrank might already know that.  I'll double-check tonight08:03
bspencerdo you have the maemo garage link?08:04
agoliveir1He won't be able to compile directly due the libosso issue.08:04
bspencerok.  got it.  now your comments are making sense :)08:05
agoliveir1It's good to make sense :)08:06
bspencerwe already have media player and chat application using dbus though08:06
bspencerso maybe we already did something with libosso or workaround (we = PRC guys)08:06
agoliveir1bspencer: I would love to know about it.08:06
bspenceragoliveir1: obviously I'm not totally up on how it works but I've been gone for a couple weeks.  The guys working on that are horace, peter, and bo xu.  I don't see them on the irc list now08:07
Mithrandiragoliveira: do you have any example code which should work, that doesn't?08:07
agoliveir1Mithrandir: No I was just cutting off the support for it. I'll go after that as soon as I can get some food.08:08
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bspenceragoliveir1: ok.  that's all I have.  We can sync later.08:09
bspencerenjoy your fiesta / siesta  (sp?)08:09
agoliveir1None. :) Fiesta = party and siesta = nap and both are spanish :)08:10
agoliveir1We speak portuguese here08:10
bspencermy bad08:10
agoliveir1No problem, many people do the same mistake.08:10
agoliveir1Mithrandir: Anything else? If not I'm going to eat something.08:11
Mithrandirjust go find some food. :-)08:11
agoliveir1Mithrandir: Ok, be back soon.08:12
mawhalenrusty: you still around?08:13
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