[03:21] <lenkawell> mdz, can you talk at 1000 EDT?
[03:32] <mdz> lenkawell: yes
[03:32] <mdz> lenkawell: I have two hours of back-to-back meetings prior to that, but if they don't run over, I should be fine
[03:36] <lenkawell> mdz, sounds good, thanks
[05:56] <Mithrandir> hiya Mauri, Ken
[05:57] <agoliveira> Hi all.
[05:57] <amitk> hi
[05:57] <kwwii> hi 
[05:58] <rusty> hi
[05:58] <Mithrandir> hiya rusty; it's been a while.
[05:58] <rusty> good vacation?
[06:00] <mawhalen> Hi Adilson
[06:01] <mawhalen> Any Samsung yet?
[06:01] <agoliveira> mawhalen: Hi. I wish :(
[06:01] <Mithrandir> rusty: yes, absolutely.  Spent a couple of days riding around in the mountains.
[06:01] <mawhalen> I sent information to somebody in Brazil that made me think it was on it's way...I'll check again.  
[06:01] <mawhalen> crazy
[06:02] <agoliveira> mawhalen: 2 days ago I received an email from Sulamita stating that it was sent but if they sent on that day should be here yesterday already.
[06:02] <kwwii> I won't even ask about mine then
[06:02] <Mithrandir> kwwii: not shipped yet.
[06:02] <Mithrandir> ok, shall we start?  Charlie is on vacation and not here this week.
[06:03] <agoliveira> mawhalen: I already asked Sulamita for the tracking number but she didn't answer yet. If you could find this for me I can track it down.
[06:03] <mawhalen> Todd - you on?
[06:03] <Todd> ya, I'm here
[06:03] <rusty> Bob is still on vacation 
[06:03] <agoliveira> rusty: I don't know why you north-americans have this fixation with the Amazon :)
[06:03] <jacob-laptop> hi everyone
[06:03] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: Todd Brandt is now joining, he is working on the Control Panel and applets
[06:03] <Mithrandir> mawhalen: ah, good.
[06:03] <Mithrandir> Todd: welcome.
[06:04] <Todd> Hello :)
[06:04] <rusty> well, looks who's here?
[06:04] <Mithrandir> I've just recently come back from vacation, so I failed to post an agenda to the list.  I propose we do the usual; status updates and any discussion items.
[06:05] <Mithrandir> anybody have any discussion items already?
[06:05] <mawhalen> Is Rob on?
[06:05] <rusty> rob_, you listening?
[06:05] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: I'd like Rob to give an update on what we are doing with SDIO
[06:05] <Todd> I have one: I've selected a starting source base for he control panel applets using the gnome-control-center code, I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions on that
[06:05] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Nothing new from my side.
[06:06] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: I'd also like to talk about Email
[06:06] <Mithrandir> mawhalen: sdio goes with the kernel update?
[06:07] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: what do you mean by kernel update?  For 7.10 or 7.10.1?
[06:07] <Mithrandir> no, the status update. :-)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> so it doesn't need a separate agenda item
[06:07] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: oh - yes.
[06:08] <Mithrandir> let's go through the specs then.  I don't have much in the way of updates from me, because of said vacation.  Adilson, please fill in when you have something. :-)
[06:08] <Mithrandir> mobile-app-framework: I'm pondering just marking this as "done", since hildon's there, and works.
[06:08] <agoliveira> Sure.
[06:09] <Mithrandir> so unless anybody has any questions, we'll move on to browser.
[06:09] <Mithrandir> bspencer,asac : do you have an update on the browser status?
[06:09] <asac> yeah :)
[06:09] <asac> good that its at the beginning ... because i am about to leave ;)
[06:09] <asac> we uploaded a midbrowser update that ships new branding iirc
[06:10] <asac> now we discuss how to best hildonize it ...
[06:10] <asac> i would have a question about that
[06:10] <asac> how does hildon theme its application/program menu? can we theme normal GtkMenu in the same way?
[06:11] <Mithrandir> in general, I think you want to use hildon menus, and they'll get the right theme automatically?
[06:11] <bspencer> all hildon apps use the same theme for the menu
[06:11] <bspencer> which is system wide -- is that your question?
[06:11] <rob_> hi all
[06:11] <asac> i know that normal GtkMenus are not used in other apps, but it would ease hildonizing mozilla a lot if we could just apply the same theme on GtkMenus
[06:12] <mfrey> has anyone looked at the just release maemo browser?
[06:12] <mfrey> based on mozilla
[06:12] <bspencer> mfrey -- hold that thought...
[06:12] <bspencer> asac: but GtkMenu has the menu across the top
[06:12] <agoliveira> mfrey: I did test it and works very well.
[06:12] <asac> bspencer: no thats not the point :) ... its just about the theme of the pop-up
[06:12] <bspencer> and we have to use a hildon menu to put the menu in the drop-down list
[06:12] <bspencer> ah
[06:13] <asac> the idea is to introduce libmozhildon which plainly listens for the X events hildon listens to and pops-up xul popups instead
[06:13] <asac> from what i saw in libhildon code it should be not too hard
[06:13] <asac> to mimic that behaviour
[06:13] <bspencer> ok.  worth taking a look
[06:14] <asac> however ... if normal GtkMenus would be rendered in the same way as the hildon drop-down it would help a lot
[06:14] <bspencer> asac: I chatted with Nokia guys about something similar, which is to change Gtk to behave as Hildon so apps don't have to port
[06:14] <asac> bspencer: i think its the most efficient way to go ... but we can talk about that outside this meeting
[06:15] <bspencer> asac: yeah, I like the idea.  Let's chat offline
[06:15] <asac> bspencer: well it doesn't help for us ... mozilla doesn't use GtkMenu et al
[06:15] <asac> bspencer: and we would get full xul'ish behaviour automatically
[06:16] <bfiller> what is the diff between midbrowser on launchpad and Mobile Internet Browser on mobiln?
[06:16] <asac> bfiller: the link is still wrong on moblin
[06:16] <cwong1> asac: I fixed that yesterday
[06:16] <asac> bfiller: the right git repository is a bit in advance 
[06:16] <asac> cwong1: ah ok ... thanks
[06:16] <bfiller> so it's the same code?
[06:16] <asac> cwong1: we have now our own xul window for application in git ... which we don't have in latest release.
[06:17] <asac> bfiller: it has progressed, but yes ... we release from there
[06:18] <bspencer> so source is moblin --> launchpad --> ubuntu-mobile
[06:18] <bspencer> is that right?
[06:18] <asac> moblin has pristine upstream repository -> launchpad adds debian/ -> ubuntu-mobile has ubuntu packages
[06:18] <bspencer> right.
[06:19] <bspencer> can we talk a little about ETA for some features... or is it too soon?
[06:19] <asac> welll toolbar on bottom is already in git
[06:19] <asac> we can actually strip down ui now as we need
[06:19] <asac> for now we should just assume that the top level menu is the hildon menu
[06:19] <bspencer> excellent.
[06:19] <bspencer> right.  Fine for starters.
[06:20] <cwong1> hildonize it is the next big item to do
[06:20] <asac> it will end up to be renamed to <hildonmenu> ... and adapted to X events by libmozhildon ... if all works out well ;)
[06:20] <asac> at least that is my vision
[06:20] <asac> adaption can be done through normal xbl
[06:20] <asac> e.g. introduce the hildonmenu tag which represents an invisible menu that pops-up if it gets some event
[06:21] <bspencer> ok.
[06:22] <bspencer> anything else for midbrowser?
[06:22] <agoliveira> cwong1: One factor that I took in consideration when I selected the applications was the capability to hildonize so we should have no big problems with that. At least I hope so :)
[06:22] <bspencer> mfrey asked: has anyone looked at the just release maemo browser?
[06:22] <asac> bspencer: well ... it would be nice if someone could look if and how its possible to theme GtkMenu Popups in the same way as hildon menu
[06:22] <bspencer> cwong1 did a little.  and rusty too
[06:23] <bspencer> asac: ok.  cwong1 and I will chat about that today
[06:23] <asac> bspencer: thanks
[06:23] <cwong1> ok
[06:23] <bspencer> about maemo browser -- it is a GtkMozEmbed-based browser.
[06:24] <bspencer> I think it is a viable alternative to our work, with different goals
[06:24] <bspencer> I think we still need a full xul-based solution, which is what we are creating
[06:24] <bspencer> but we can also port the maemo browser too.  
[06:24] <bspencer> in time...
[06:24] <bspencer> mfrey: ok?
[06:24] <mfrey> I agree that we need a full XUL based browser
[06:25] <mfrey> but I have not looked at the source
[06:25] <mfrey> for the maemo one yet
[06:25] <rusty> has anyone been able to build the maemo browser?  When i looked at it the source was pretty confusing
[06:25] <mfrey> but I do like they UI concepts 
[06:25] <agoliveira> rusty: I tried for like 30 min and gave up.
[06:26] <rusty> the project is really a bunch of projects, with undocumented dependencies
[06:26] <mfrey> Where is the source -- I can have a look
[06:26] <bspencer> obfuscation is their talent :-\
[06:26] <agoliveira> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/
[06:26] <mfrey> thanks
[06:26] <rusty> i'm not sure the obfustication was on purpose
[06:27] <rusty> might just be they way they developer thinks about the problem
[06:27] <rusty> if he had a README then it would make life a lot easier
[06:27] <asac> mfrey: what ui concepts do you refer to?
[06:28] <mfrey> I guess I just mean the integrated hildonized toolbar.
[06:29] <rusty> When i used the browser while at GUADEC, it provided some of the same iPhone like features where you could zoom in on a page... but not as well done as the iPhone
[06:29] <asac> ok ... yes so its not their UI concept
[06:29] <mfrey> It also seems that the code is based on gecko 1.9 that supports zooming (which I think is important)
[06:29] <asac> well ... we won't be able to use 1.9 in stable releases in the near future i guess
[06:30] <bspencer> For the sake of time, I recommend we move forward...
[06:30] <agoliveira> mfrey: You're right.
[06:30] <asac> mfrey: maybe thats the reason it fails to build?
[06:30] <asac> ok
[06:30] <asac> i have to go
[06:30] <Mithrandir> see you, asac.
[06:30] <Mithrandir> mobile-graphics; is there anybody around who can give an update?
[06:31] <rusty> we could ask about the state of integrating what has already been handed over?
[06:31] <agoliveira> bye asac
[06:31] <Mithrandir> bryce's not here, but I could summarise it.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> he's packaged up the bits we've been given, I don't think they're uploaded yet.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure what's holding that up.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> he's also started on the libdrm merge, merging in the bits from your code into our package.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> and he's going to your campus this week (iirc) to work on getting everything working.
[06:33] <bspencer> on a related note...sorry for being out of touch, but did we resolve the Keith-Packard-patch to the xserver, and is that finished?
[06:33] <Mithrandir> bspencer: yes, that's fixed.
[06:33] <rusty> Mithrandir, i have another agenda item that i just remembered that i would like to add to the queue.... its about the state of all the various packages that make up a *-full-mobile-stack
[06:34] <rob_> Mithrandir, bryce will be here today, this afternoon
[06:34] <Mithrandir> ok, coolie
[06:34] <rob_> what about the kernel module needed for the 2-d driver?
[06:34] <Mithrandir> it should be in, I thought.
[06:34] <Mithrandir> amitk: can you confirm that?
[06:34] <amitk> Mithrandir: it should go in tomorrow
[06:34] <Mithrandir> ok, good
[06:34] <rob_> cool
[06:34] <Mithrandir> any more questions for -graphics, or move on?
[06:35] <agoliveira> A warning: I just received a call from the phone company that they may have to disconnect me for about 1 hour for repairs (a pole in the corner was hit by a truck this mornig) so don't worry if I just become irresponsive all the sudden.
[06:35] <rob_> and bryce will be picking up a crown beach system today too
[06:35] <Mithrandir> oh, great.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> next item, image creation.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> we've had some trouble with the image creator, again; it's a bit on the brittle side.
[06:37] <rusty> Mithrandir, a lot of problems are the result of not having up-to-date packages in gutsy (from moblin)
[06:37] <rusty> problems with the UME build, that is
[06:37] <Mithrandir> we should add that to the list of stuff to discuss -- how to avoid that happening.
[06:37] <rusty> in other words, if you are using image-creator off moblin, then there is an  apt configuration to pull from the moblin apt repository (in addition to gutsy)
[06:38] <rusty> if you remove that configuration then you see the same thing that the automated UME build is kicking out
[06:38] <rusty> so we just need to figure out what all packages need updated in gutsy
[06:38] <rusty> there has been a log of work 
[06:38] <agoliveira> I don't see many alternatives but automate the sync or keep using moblin repos.
[06:39] <Mithrandir> rusty: our build host is firewalled and can't access moblin.org
[06:39] <Mithrandir> that's not going to change, so "using moblin repos" is not an alternative.
[06:39] <rusty> that's cool, and it helps us find these kind of errors
[06:39] <agoliveira> Hmmm... didnt' know that
[06:40] <rusty> but this explains why using the UME images have all kinds of problems that we fixed already
[06:40] <Mithrandir> it'd probably help if you prodded me when you have stuff you want uploaded.
[06:40] <rusty> is there some way to do a diff between apt repositories... to at least see what packages are newer on moblin?
[06:41] <rusty> Mithrandir, the deal is that our build is automatically kicked off when ever anyone commits a change into the code
[06:41] <Mithrandir> you can use apt-cache policy on the relevant packages, and see where it tries to pull from
[06:43] <agoliveira> rusty: COuldn't you also create and provide the images?
[06:43] <Mithrandir> an improvement I coded in last night is the creator now makes .manifest files besides the image, listing what's in it.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> so that should make Charlie happier and make it easier to see what's in an image.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> I think we should move on.
[06:44] <bspencer> Mithrandir: I like that feature
[06:44] <Mithrandir> -kernel; what's going on there?
[06:44] <bspencer> Mithrandir: good for testing too.
[06:44] <amitk> 2D driver should go in tomorrow
[06:44] <amitk> I am testing the build right now
[06:44] <amitk> rob_: should I integrate the SDIO patches, or are we getting updates?
[06:45] <amitk> storage driver was switched to piix instead of ata to get DMA performance improvements on jacob-laptop's request
[06:45] <rob_> amitk, you should integrate them, but we need to talk about a longer term strategy about what to do about sdio
[06:46] <rob_> amitk, we've got libata support now working and it's checked in our kernel on moblin.org -- we're in the process of reviewing it
[06:46] <amitk> rob_: great
[06:47] <amitk> I should be receiving the updated/cleaned-up patch for thermal optimisations tomorrow
[06:47] <amitk> once I get the go-ahead I will merge that as well
[06:48] <amitk> So after the 2D DRM, I have two things on my list - SDIO and thermal
[06:48] <amitk> Anything else that is needed from the kernel?
[06:48] <rob_> amik: as you know, all work on our current MSS sdio patch has stopped and we're working w/ Pierre's SDIO stack...we think we can have that working pretty well on Menlow by end of September...but is that too late for inclusion?
[06:49] <amitk> rob_: Sept might be very late yes. Mithrandir can comment our Ubuntu policy in these cases
[06:49] <rob_> amitk, i keep hearing that adding a new feature patch like that will be difficult past the august feature freeze
[06:50] <rob_> amitk, MSS and Pierre's code could reside in the same kernel -- we could put it in before the feature freeze and then provide bug fix over the course of development
[06:51] <rob_> it's a config option would enable one or the other 
[06:51] <amitk> rob_: I will have to talk to the kernel team. I will get back to you on this.
[06:52] <rob_> amitk, ok
[06:52] <Mithrandir> ok, anything more about kernel?
[06:52] <rob_> Mithrandir, i've got nothing more
[06:52] <Mithrandir> ok; move on to UI.
[06:53] <Mithrandir> bspencer_: do you have an update on that?
[06:53] <bspencer_> Mithrandir I too have been out for 2wk vacation and just back this morning.
[06:53] <Mithrandir> ok, so it's probably better if you send that update to the list, then?
[06:53] <bspencer_> We have two things going:  working with ken wimer to create UI, and working to get a simple non-flash UI up soon
[06:54] <bspencer_> non-flash UI that behaves similar to current flash UI.  Very simple.
[06:54] <Mithrandir> interesting; what are you basing that on?
[06:54] <bspencer_> Ken's will take a bit of work and some changes too.  
[06:54] <bspencer_> the simple UI is hopefully do-able in a shorter time frame.
[06:55] <bspencer_> Mithrandir: we are currently looking at Clutter
[06:55] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:55] <Mithrandir> you're in touch with kwwii about the theme, I hope?
[06:56] <bspencer_> yes, thanks.   kwwii also is working on a real theme
[06:56] <bspencer_> he knows much more about this than I
[06:56] <kwwii> we need to get the format in line before we can start testing the first stuff
[06:56] <bspencer_> but we discussed after our meeting a couple of weeks ago the steps to create.
[06:56] <bspencer_> kwwii: hello!
[06:56] <kwwii> ie. we need to be able to start from one large pic in the build process or such
[06:56] <kwwii> hi bspencer_
[06:57] <Mithrandir> the theme builder has that support, as you know
[06:57] <agoliveira> bspencer_: The idea is to keep the aspect, functionality, etc or do something else?
[06:57] <kwwii> I started playing with the SVG - I guess we'll have to take note as we go on what needs to be changed
[06:57] <kwwii> Mithrandir: everythin I have seen until now was cut up pics...do you have a link to that?
[06:58] <agoliveira> kwwii: link to the theme tools?
[06:58] <bspencer_> agoliveira: don't understand your question
[06:58] <Mithrandir> apt-get source hildon-theme-plankton and look at template/template.png
[06:59] <kwwii> agoliveira: yes, if that is what I need to go from the theme-in-one-pic to a usable version
[06:59] <mdz> (hi, guys, I'm finished with the server meeting so dropping in late)
[06:59] <kwwii> Mithrandir: right, but that does not show how the cutter-upper works and how to tweak it
[06:59] <kwwii> sorry for the technical terms :p
[06:59] <sabotage> http://thememaker.garage.maemo.org/
[07:00] <Mithrandir> kwwii: point.  sabotage's link might help with that
[07:00] <agoliveira> bspencer_: I meant if it the nun-flash UI would be the same (aspect, functionality, etc) as the flash version or it would change the way it works
[07:00] <sabotage> I've used it to build my own themes for my N770 in the past
[07:00] <kwwii> yeah, if we wanted to simply change the look of the Nokia stuff it would be enough
[07:00] <kwwii> but out stuff is different by design
[07:00] <bspencer_> agoliveira: same to start, then improve gradually
[07:00] <kwwii> s/out/our
[07:01] <sabotage> but it needs to be modified to match the planned layout for UME 
[07:01] <kwwii> sabotage: that would be killer :-)
[07:01] <sabotage> which means we have to finalize and document our layout ;)
[07:02] <sabotage> exact sizes/dimensions etc... and that then only works for one formfactor, so then you need options or alterantives for other aspect ratios
[07:02] <Mithrandir> ok, so this needs some serious attention.
[07:03] <kwwii> sabotage: right, I've started to mess with things, but it will take some time
[07:03] <agoliveira> kwwii: There's the hildon-theme-tools package that does this for the original maemo tools.
[07:03] <agoliveira> kwwii: I meant maemo themes
[07:03] <Mithrandir> ok, let's move on
[07:04] <kwwii> agoliveira: cool, I'll check that out, once I find it in launchpad :-)
[07:04] <sabotage> agoliviera, correct, but again they make assumptions on the target screen size 
[07:04] <Mithrandir> skipping window manager
[07:04] <Mithrandir> amitk: any update on the power thermal optimisations?
[07:04] <kwwii> it is clear that the tools as-is are not going to be enough
[07:04] <agoliveira> Sure
[07:07] <Mithrandir> seems like amitk isn't around right now, so moving on.
[07:07] <kwwii> me cooks dinner for the family...bbl
[07:07] <Mithrandir> skipping USB client, since Charlie's not here; we're then at the utilities.
[07:07] <Mithrandir> aka the control panel bits.
[07:08] <bspencer_> is Todd here?
[07:08] <Todd> yea
[07:08] <Todd> Basically I have a list of starting source bases that I want your opinion on
[07:08] <Todd> lemme paste 9 lines
[07:08] <Todd> Power Management           Power Policy Management (Intel)
[07:08] <Todd> Connection Management      gnome-control-center:Network Proxy, gnome-system-tools:Network
[07:08] <Todd> Touchscreen calibration    Possibly the touchscreen library (tslib) from DirectFB?
[07:08] <Todd> Screen brightness          Possibly the backlight code from gnome-power-manager?
[07:08] <Todd> User theming customization gnome-control-center:Theme/Theme Installer
[07:08] <Todd> Font size / screen size    gnome-control-center:(Font, Screen Resolution)
[07:08] <Todd> Hardware button config     gnome-control-center:Keyboard Shortcuts
[07:08] <Todd> Volume Controls            gnome-control-center:Sound                                                 
[07:08] <Todd> System Information         gnome-system-tools:System Monitor                                        
[07:09] <Todd> These are the targetted areas of control panel functionality and the source bases I think best to start from
[07:09] <Todd> do they look ok?
[07:09] <Mithrandir> the connection management bits; we've talked about network-manager for that
[07:09] <lenkawell> are you planning to modify the UI for these at all?
[07:09] <rusty> Todd, for the touchscreen calibration, there is an existing calibration application (that sucks) from the x driver
[07:09] <mdz> Mithrandir: are we set up to do syncs from moblin? or doing separate source uploads?
[07:10] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm doing source uploads.
[07:10] <Todd> lenkawell: yes, for each one, but we'll use the existing source as a base for how it should look and go from there
[07:10] <mdz> Mithrandir: should we think about having a weekly(ish?) ritual of pulling in the latest updates from moblin? that might be more efficient than coming to you for each component update
[07:11] <Todd> mithrandir: for connection management, what has been decided? Have you already discussed reusing the gnome network manager code?
[07:11] <mdz> Mithrandir: (sorry, I've read scrollback and am jumping around a bit)
[07:11] <lenkawell> Todd, do you have a schedule for when you think you'll get this in?
[07:11] <Mithrandir> Todd: network-manager is divided into a backend and frontend, and it already works-ish if you just install it on a system today.
[07:12] <Mithrandir> Todd: it seems to me much better to fix any problems there rather than build something on the not-very-good bits of gnome-control-center's network bits.
[07:12] <Todd> lenkawell: not yet, I'm going to port the gnome-control-center's netowrk proxy config code first to see how much work is needed to get this stuff into Hildon, then I'll have a better idea of the overall schedule
[07:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: we could do that.
[07:12] <Mithrandir> Todd: the proxy code is very simple; it just sets a couple of gconf keys.
[07:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: bspencer and I talked at OSCON about doing something similar with hildon updates
[07:13] <mdz> I don't know whether they do milestone releases, but in any case, we should track it in some fashion
[07:13] <Todd> Mithrandir: yea, that's why I'm porting it first, to see how long the simplest possible app takes to port (I'm actually new to the application side, I'm a kernel guy, forgive me if I sound a nit naive)
[07:13] <Mithrandir> we have patches for hildon, though.
[07:14] <Mithrandir> Todd: ah, ok.  Sounds fine, then.
[07:14] <bspencer_> Todd: there's a thread discussing the network manager stuff on mailing list.  We can chat about it offline.
[07:14] <agoliveira> mdz: IFAIK, they only do milestones for the project as a whole and they had only 3 I think so far.
[07:15] <Todd> bspencer: soudns great :)
[07:16] <Mithrandir> when do you expect we can see code drops?
[07:16] <bspencer> Todd:  about control panel, the list is a great start.  Thanks for the investigation.
[07:16] <bspencer> Mithrandir: are you asking about control panel or other?
[07:16] <Mithrandir> bspencer: the control panel bits.
[07:17] <Todd> Mithrandir: the biggest issue we have right now is a bug in the hildon-control-panel code that causes it to crash when loading applets in the moblin environment
[07:17] <Mithrandir> do we have a workaround or fix for it, or not yet?
[07:17] <bspencer> Todd: I'll push again on the guys at nokia to help us resolve it this week.
[07:18] <Todd> Mithrandir: the bug is in the Nokia code, so we need to sync with them to find a fix. I can't even run the hildon-control-panel code we have in Maemo 3.2 scratchbox because it's too new, scratchbox seems to only be able to run 2.2.x hildon-control-panel code
[07:18] <ian_brasil> i will make a request about hildon also
[07:18] <bspencer> Todd: it is another exapmle of finding the right code -- the hildon svn repo is not always organized well
[07:18] <Todd> our source base is from their "refactoring" branch, which is so new it's unversioned :P
[07:19] <Mithrandir> Todd: ok.  Tell me if there's something I can usefully help with.
[07:19] <rusty> Mithrandir, but in the mean time the control panel applets can be developed using the older control panel in scratchpad
[07:19] <Todd> bspencer: yea that was a big problem
[07:19] <rusty> s/scratchpad/scratchbox/
[07:20] <Todd> right, we can use scratchbox and Maemo 3.2 to develop these control panel apps for hildon-control-panel 2.2.10, but I wouldn't feel right making source drops to you guys without having actually tested them on the moblin platform
[07:20] <Mithrandir> ok
[07:20] <Todd> this is the conundrum
[07:20] <Mithrandir> so we need to get that bug fixed or worked around.
[07:20] <Todd> yup
[07:20] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: any chance you could help with that?  You've looked at quite a bit of hildon code already.
[07:21] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Not as much as you may think but I'll be glad to give it a shot :)
[07:21] <bspencer> I think it is a small issue that nokia probably already has a fix for given they likely have a working control panel now.
[07:21] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
[07:21] <Mithrandir> ok, so we could try just pulling in their upstream changes first.
[07:22] <bspencer> we'll get it done for next week.
[07:22] <Todd> bspencer: that would be great *crossing my fingers*
[07:22] <Mithrandir> coolie
[07:22] <Mithrandir> move on, then
[07:23] <Mithrandir> media player
[07:23] <Mithrandir> how's it going in that camp?
[07:23] <bspencer> I must defer to rusty for any updates
[07:23] <bspencer> last I know is I sent new graphics to team to integrate into UI
[07:24] <rusty> the media player is progressing, with a lot of work going into landing the music management bits
[07:24] <rusty> so you don't have the file-picker as your UI for playing media
[07:24] <rusty> we are also getting ready so submit some patches to the helixcommunity so that the helix-dbus-server can be used with the media player
[07:25] <Mithrandir> oh, goodie
[07:25] <lenkawell> rusty: is there a "functional spec" for the player? I know there's a UI spec, but it doesn't say much about the goals, capabilities, etc.
[07:25] <bspencer> lenkawell: that could be created.  Not a bad idea.
[07:26] <rusty> lenkawell, yes there is a functional spec... but i'm not sure if it's in an easy to find location on moblin
[07:26] <lenkawell> rusty: is the player going to support both helix and gstreamer simultaneously?
[07:26] <rusty> we just need to upload it
[07:26] <rusty> lenkawell, yes
[07:26] <rusty> the media infrastructure is pulled out of the player via a dbus service
[07:27] <Mithrandir> ok, move on?  Seems like the media player is coming along well
[07:27] <rusty> so as long as you have a service that implements the right dbus interface than it can be used with the player
[07:27] <rusty> sure
[07:27] <lenkawell> rusty, ok, thanks
[07:27] <Mithrandir> the build infrastructure is working, but falling over too often for my liking due to image-creator's brittleness. :-/  I'm working with Adam Conrad on fixing the bugs as I see them, but it takes time.
[07:28] <rusty> a lot of the brittleness comes from the repository of packages, and not really the tool itself
[07:29] <rusty> but when people find bugs, please post a bug on the bugzilla at moblin.org
[07:29] <Mithrandir> I tend to just fix them. :-P
[07:29] <ian_brasil> fraco
[07:29] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: something that breaks easily.
[07:29] <Mithrandir> moving on; the gnome components bit is still hung on me finding time to do it.
[07:29] <agoliveira> ian_brasil. Obrigado.
[07:29] <Mithrandir> so no update on that.
[07:29] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: thansk
[07:30] <Mithrandir> hw-decode; is there any progress to report?  It's marked as "not started" which looks wrong.
[07:30] <rusty> it is started
[07:30] <rusty> but i don't have an update
[07:30] <rusty> that would be Charlie
[07:30] <Mithrandir> ok
[07:31] <Mithrandir> let's skip it, then.
[07:31] <Mithrandir> I'll mail the list asking for its status to be updated.
[07:31] <Mithrandir> for the development environment, I've made some progress, but run into some bugs in germinate, the tool we use for generating the seeds.
[07:32] <Mithrandir> as as workaround, I'll be seeding the necessary bits manually, I think.
[07:32] <Mithrandir> moving on to the keyboard; status update?
[07:33] <bspencer> matchbox keyboard is working, with statusbar toggle
[07:33] <bspencer> still working on auto-launch stuff
[07:33] <rusty> and with several styls
[07:33] <Mithrandir> it should probably not pop up the menu about what kind of keyboard you want each and every time you open it.
[07:34] <bspencer> mm... haven't seen that.  agreed
[07:34] <rusty> it would make more sense if a control panel applet provided the ability to change your keyboard style
[07:34] <rusty> and clicking on the keyboard just opened your pref of a keyboard style
[07:34] <Mithrandir> something like that, or tap-and-hold to change
[07:35] <bspencer> good ideas  
[07:35] <rusty> oooo... fancy :->
[07:35] <bspencer> I'll follow up on that
[07:35] <agoliveira>  tap-and-hold would be cool
[07:35] <Mithrandir> ok, that's the status updates, then Mauri wanted to talk about email?
[07:35] <Mithrandir> mawhalen: email?
[07:35] <agoliveira> I think she's away.
[07:36] <mawhalen> no - typing, hold on
[07:36] <agoliveira> Sorry
[07:36] <mawhalen> agoliveira: Frank can work on email but needs some direction
[07:36] <mawhalen> I saw that you asked him for code, which we can give 
[07:37] <agoliveira> mawhalen: I already in contact with him.
[07:37] <mawhalen> I just wanted to get some expectation on what is really expected from him
[07:37] <bspencer> side thought:   iPhone uses POP to get emails and then puts them into consistent UI, regardless of gmail, or other source.   
[07:38] <agoliveira> mawhalen: As I explained to him, he needed to put Claws to wok on UME with the hildon interface.
[07:38] <agoliveira> The same I'm working on with the rest of the applications.
[07:39] <mawhalen> agoliveira: ok - communication is a little tougher with him in PRC
[07:39] <agoliveira> s/wok/work - Sorry, I'm really starving :)
[07:39] <agoliveira> mawhalen: Yes, usually takes a day.
[07:39] <bspencer> agoliveira: I can help bridge that a little
[07:40] <agoliveira> bspencer: Thanks we can see that after meeting.
[07:40] <agoliveira> But actually there's not much to it.
[07:40] <mawhalen> OK - we can take offline
[07:41] <mawhalen> thanks
[07:41] <agoliveira> mawhalen: No problem.
[07:41] <Mithrandir> mawhalen: ok, have you gotten the answers you need?
[07:42] <mawhalen> yes - thx
[07:42] <Mithrandir> sdio and control center applets has been covered, so rusty, "state of full stack"; your agenda item
[07:42] <agoliveira> mawhalen: Just a quick question: did you see my request about the tracking code?
[07:42] <agoliveira> Sorry, that was supposed to be private.
[07:42] <agoliveira> Please, go ahead Tollef
[07:43] <rusty> Mithrandir, that agenda request was what we covered in the discussion of UME image builds not having what users expect because of packages that have yet to be pushed into gutsy
[07:43] <mdz> what was the resolution there?  poke Tollef when you release a new version?
[07:44] <rusty> i think the weekly sync would be a good solution
[07:44] <Mithrandir> I'd be most comfortable with that, and not just blindingly syncing, but if the consensus is to just sync, then we'll do that.
[07:44] <mdz> so if I understand correctly, you guys are providing a .deb repository at moblin, and then we're also bringing that stuff into Ubuntu separately?
[07:44] <Mithrandir> first that = "poke me when you have something you want uploaded".
[07:45] <rusty> mdz, yes, we have an automated build system such that anytime a developer updates some code, and new package is built and uploaded to an apt repository on moblin
[07:45] <mdz> in that case, we should be able to be fairly liberal about syncing
[07:45] <rusty> mdz, but we have a manual process for pushing updates into gutsy
[07:46] <mdz> I'm assuming most of these developers are not touching the packages
[07:46] <mdz> s/packages/packaging metadata/
[07:46] <mdz> we have a process whereby packages can be copied verbatim from external repositories into Ubuntu
[07:46] <mdz> so once the packaging has been vetted, we should be able to bring in code updates with minimal review
[07:47] <mdz> we should also work toward having someone on the Intel side with privileges to push packages into Gutsy
[07:47] <Mithrandir> as in, getting them through motu and core-dev?
[07:48] <mdz> yes
[07:48] <mdz> Canonical can provide community and engineering resources toward that goal
[07:49] <mdz> I'll follow up with an email about this
[07:49] <Mithrandir> sounds good.
[07:49] <Mithrandir> I'd be happy to have more people who work on mobile being able to upload packages.
[07:51] <rusty> do we have other items.... i'm about to hit a hard stop
[07:51] <Mithrandir> no, I don't have anything more.
[07:51] <Mithrandir> anybody else?
[07:51] <agoliveira> I would like to make a request
[07:51] <agoliveira> If it's not a problem, could we move this meeting to wednesday?
[07:51] <agoliveira> or friday
[07:52] <Mithrandir> preferably not, since I work late on Thursdays so I can have all those crazy-hour meetings then.
[07:52] <Mithrandir> we could move it a bit later in the day.
[07:52] <agoliveira> Well, if we could move 1 hour later would be great already.
[07:52] <mdz> Thursday is better for me as well
[07:52] <bspencer> not sure we could hold onto asac and kwwii though if later.
[07:52] <agoliveira> Ok, just forget it then.
[07:53] <mdz> it's already fairly late for central Europe
[07:53] <rusty> another possibility is rotating the time
[07:53] <cwong1> asac stays late
[07:53] <Mithrandir> that'd work too
[07:53] <agoliveira> It's just that this back-to-back meetings around my linch time is really giving me some ill reactions.
[07:53] <bspencer> agoliveira: such a whiner :P
[07:53] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: eat before the meeting, then?
[07:53] <agoliveira> Too early.
[07:54] <Mithrandir> we should also try to cut down the length of the meeting.
[07:54] <agoliveira> I can handle that it's a problem.
[07:54] <bspencer> agoliveira: tell your wife to pack you a sandwich and extra bag of chips
[07:54] <Mithrandir> I tried to get people to send status reports to the list, and we can then have the real discussion items here.
[07:54] <bspencer> Mithrandir: good idea.  We had 30min browser discussion.  We can improve.
[07:55] <Mithrandir> that works well for the distro meetings, but it didn't really pick up here, probably because people didn't see what I wanted to.
[07:55] <agoliveira> bspencer: I wish but the lunch is our main meal of the day here so I need a real meal.
[07:55] <bspencer> agoliveira: yes, and a nap after iirc
[07:55] <Mithrandir> heh
[07:55] <agoliveira> bspencer: No, naps are for the Mexicans :)
[07:56] <Mithrandir> it doesn't seem like anybody has any more business, so adjourned.
[07:56] <agoliveira> Ok.
[07:56] <rusty> l8r
[07:56] <mdz> thanks, all
[07:56] <bspencer> agoliveira: you taking off for food now?
[07:56] <bspencer> wanted to chat briefly about email 
[07:56] <bspencer> could do it later
[07:56] <ian_brasil> he has already gone :)
[07:56] <bspencer> :)
[07:56] <agoliveira> I can wait a bit longer, I already got a headache :)
[07:56] <bspencer> just a couple of things
[07:57] <bspencer> we have Frank working on email now 
[07:57] <bspencer> he's a smart guy, though not really an apps guy
[07:57] <bspencer> a bit of direction from you and I would go a long way
[07:58] <bspencer> so if you have pointers about Claws or other, please send it our way.  And we'll try to get the source we are modifying uploaded early so you can contribute too if you have spare cycles
[07:58] <agoliveira> I'm all for it. I already told him that I'm available but didn't have any news from him until I asked for it yesterday.
[07:58] <agoliveira> bspencer: Sorry but I don't have anything specific on it.
[07:58] <agoliveira> But I do have a tip:
[07:58] <bspencer> ok.  I think he'll do a good job from the middle-ware side of things.  I'll try to help guide the UI polish stuff with him.
[08:00] <agoliveira> I've being trying to remove libosso while keeping hildon interface. After some discussion today we figured out that would be more productive to hack libosso for our use so it would be much easier to port the applications.
[08:00] <agoliveira> So, that's what I'm about to start.
[08:00] <agoliveira> If all goes well should be much easier for him also.
[08:01] <bspencer> libosso is for environment variables, #define's, etc, right?  Refresh my memory on its purpose
[08:01] <agoliveira> Because fro what I understood he didn't compile claws with hildon interface but gtk.
[08:01] <agoliveira> libosso is a wrapper for d-bus, mostly used for proprietary stuff.
[08:01] <bspencer> right.  He started with basic Claws.  Is there already a maemo port?
[08:02] <agoliveir1> Curretly we do have libosso but hacked to support as dependency. It does not work with current dbus
[08:03] <agoliveir1> Sorry, I went offline for a bit
[08:03] <bspencer> Frank started with basic Claws. Is there already a maemo port?
[08:03] <agoliveir1> bspencer: Yes, there is, that's one of the reasons I choose Claws.
[08:03] <bspencer> Frank might already know that.  I'll double-check tonight
[08:04] <bspencer> do you have the maemo garage link?
[08:04] <agoliveir1> He won't be able to compile directly due the libosso issue.
[08:05] <agoliveir1> http://www.claws-mail.org/maemo/
[08:05] <bspencer> ok.  got it.  now your comments are making sense :)
[08:06] <agoliveir1> It's good to make sense :)
[08:06] <bspencer> we already have media player and chat application using dbus though
[08:06] <bspencer> so maybe we already did something with libosso or workaround (we = PRC guys)
[08:06] <agoliveir1> bspencer: I would love to know about it.
[08:07] <bspencer> agoliveir1: obviously I'm not totally up on how it works but I've been gone for a couple weeks.  The guys working on that are horace, peter, and bo xu.  I don't see them on the irc list now
[08:07] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: do you have any example code which should work, that doesn't?
[08:08] <agoliveir1> Mithrandir: No I was just cutting off the support for it. I'll go after that as soon as I can get some food.
[08:09] <bspencer> agoliveir1: ok.  that's all I have.  We can sync later.
[08:09] <bspencer> enjoy your fiesta / siesta  (sp?)
[08:10] <agoliveir1> None. :) Fiesta = party and siesta = nap and both are spanish :)
[08:10] <agoliveir1> We speak portuguese here
[08:10] <bspencer> my bad
[08:10] <agoliveir1> No problem, many people do the same mistake.
[08:11] <agoliveir1> Mithrandir: Anything else? If not I'm going to eat something.
[08:11] <Mithrandir> just go find some food. :-)
[08:12] <agoliveir1> Mithrandir: Ok, be back soon.
[08:13] <mawhalen> rusty: you still around?