innovatiso, does anybody here recall what the default windeco and widget style are for kubuntu or will be default in the upcoming releasE?12:22
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mhbinnovati: they will be the same as in Feisty12:26
mhbinnovati: most likely12:26
mhbinnovati: that means Crystal windeco and Polyester widget style12:27
innovatimhb: hmm, I think I left the default settings ~10 minutes after installing it haha, thanks12:27
innovatioh yes, I recall polyester, it's a nice style isn't it12:27
mhbit's not that bad12:28
innovatihaha so shiny all of a sudden haha12:28
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kubuntui just klicked on my trash can and it asked me what do i want to open it with? anybody know about that?01:20
MaximLevitskyTwo days before I told here that I found some bugs in kdesu, and that kdesudo is far from perfect. I need to know which one kubuntu will use,so I can fix it01:21
kubuntuhow about kdesu01:22
MaximLevitskyI mean will kdesu be replaced with kdesudo?01:22
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kubuntudont know01:23
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mhbMaximLevitsky: that's a good question, but most of the people here are asleep. I would recommend using the kubuntu-devel mailing list.01:23
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kubuntui just klicked on my trash can and it asked me what do i want to open it with? anybody know about that?01:23
mhbkubuntu: nope :o) you should try the #kubuntu channel, we're not exactly support here, sorry.01:23
kubuntuok thanks mhb01:24
MaximLevitskymhb, sure i will ask, thanks01:24
mhbMaximLevitsky: my bet is on "kdesu" staying the default, but ask there to make sure01:24
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MaximLevitskymhb, thanks a lot, and btw I agree with you, I also find it better that kdesudo01:26
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pgquilesnixternal: ping02:13
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Hobbseemanchicken__: pong07:07
nixternalhiya Hobbsee07:09
Hobbseeheya nixternal!07:09
n8k99heya nixternal and Hobbsee!07:10
=== n8k99 just saying hey
Hobbseemhb: compiz is by default for machines that support it07:10
Hobbseemhb: if they dont, it drops back to metacity07:10
Hobbseehiya n8k99!07:10
Hobbseefabo: seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/132096 ?07:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 132096 in kvpnc "Upgrade disables vpn client kvpnc" [Undecided,New] 07:12
mhbHobbsee: ah, thanks for enlightening me07:12
Hobbsee(as we keep finding major bugs each tribe)07:13
nixternalhow does that index look? all of the 'How do I...' stuff will be links to the answers07:14
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faboHobbsee: on previous kvpnc, pkcs11-tool wasn't supported, opensc was added on 0.8.907:53
faboHobbsee: as kvpnc can support multiple vpnc type of connection, every "helper" is a suggests07:53
Hobbseefabo: ah right07:53
fabodon't need to explain the rationale :)07:54
=== fabo be back, goes to the office ;)
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Riddellanyone want to package the new amarok?10:35
siretartanying using xine based applications with the smb:// url?10:55
Riddellwouldn't have thought xine could work with smb://10:57
RiddellI'm pretty sure amarok doesn't do a great job of it, apachelogger_ may know10:58
apachelogger_xine doesn't support kio slaves10:59
apachelogger_siretart: though I have been told for years that it's being worked on, I never saw anything working... ;-)11:00
apachelogger_Riddell: btw, the amarok package should get a debug package, debian added it in 1.4.611:00
Riddellall our packages have debug packages11:01
Riddell(you just have to know where to get them)11:01
apachelogger_do they get hidden?11:01
Riddellthey're on an obscure archive somewhere11:07
=== apachelogger_ asks the mighty wiki
Riddelljdong: did ktorrent get a fix?11:07
Riddellapachelogger_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-September/000195.html11:07
apachelogger_Riddell: thx11:07
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apachelogger_Riddell: that does ship debug symbols for everything, just not backports :|11:07
Riddellapachelogger_: yes, why the long face?11:07
apachelogger_Riddell: how is one supposed to take a proper backtrace from a backports package?11:07
Riddellapachelogger_: in theory it should just work11:09
Riddelloh, it /doesn't/ have backports, I misread you11:09
Riddelldunno, pitti would know why it wasn't included11:10
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Tm_Thi manchicken_11:16
ijuz__NetworkManager is the suck, all my laptop says is "NetworkManager: <info> Error getting killswitch power: org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.KillSwitch.NotSupported - Access type not supported"11:17
_StefanS_Riddell: compile is progressing rather well.. have a few packages that cause probs11:24
Riddell_StefanS_: what causes problems?11:28
_StefanS_Riddell: libxml-parser-perl and libxml-encoding-perl depend on eachother to build, subversion is missing gcj build-dependency, rpm depends on libdb4.4 but libdb4.5 is required by some other packages, so they need to be swapped11:29
_StefanS_libneon25-dev changed to libneon26-dev in rpm debian/rules as well.11:30
_StefanS_but nothing yet for i386 vs. lpia11:30
_StefanS_Riddell: here's the list of the stuff currently rebuilt: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/33551/11:31
Riddell_StefanS_: which of those are blocked by the above issues?11:32
_StefanS_Riddell: These are: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/33552/11:32
Riddell_StefanS_: ok, please e-mail the list of good kde modules and dependencies that still need to be built to infinity11:33
Riddelland cc me and doko11:33
_StefanS_quite a list ;)11:33
Riddellyou can also add the list of issues you have above at the end11:33
Riddellyep, great stuff :)11:33
_StefanS_uhm I expect the whole list you mailed me to be rebuilt later today, so I'll mail the list once I'm done. And ofcourse include any issues with it11:35
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_StefanS_Riddell: it would be really cool to have some of these backgrounds included within kubuntu .. : http://djmattricks.deviantart.com/gallery/ specifically the "vplants" collection11:37
_StefanS_they're downright amazing.11:37
Riddellwe already have a background for gutsy11:38
Riddellof course he can submit the artwork to the kde oxygen background competition11:38
_StefanS_well I dont know the guy, I just sorta stumbled upon the backgrounds11:45
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faboRiddell: builds fine under feisty confirmation -> strigi_0.5.5-2build1 + kde4libs_3.92.0-0ubuntu311:58
Riddellfabo: do I need to make kde4libs build-dep on that strigi version?12:01
faboRiddell: it is recommended. kde4libs_3.92.0-0ubuntu3 build only with strigi_0.5.5-2build112:03
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=== Starting logfile irclogs/kubuntu-devel.log
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=== Topic for #kubuntu-devel: Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Merge! http://merges.ubuntu.com | Bugs! https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs | KDE 4.0 beta 1 -- http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-beta1.php | anyone want to help port kde/qt to lpia - Low Power on Intel Architecture? | Tribe 4 Released
=== Topic (#kubuntu-devel): set by Hobbsee at Thu Aug 9 16:04:17 2007
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=== ..[topic/#kubuntu-devel:Riddell] : Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Merge! http://merges.ubuntu.com | Bugs! https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs | KDE 4.0 beta 1 -- http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-beta1.php | amarok 1.4.7 packager needed | FF, UVF Thursday, anything we need updated?
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doc_hi there :)12:53
Riddellhi doc_, has your island burnt down?12:54
doc_a littel :/ thanks for asking :)12:54
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Riddellat least your internet seems to be working, that's the important thing12:54
doc__hehehehe of course :)12:55
_StefanS_Riddell: found a bug related to that networkstatus in kdelibs, will try to fix and make a patch for you.12:55
_StefanS_ouch.. cpu is 99 degrees celcius. Better find my external fan :D12:55
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Riddell_StefanS_: what's that?01:06
_StefanS_Riddell: cp: cannot stat `.//usr/bin/networkstatustestservice': No such file or directory01:07
_StefanS_Riddell: gotta find out why that binary is not created/moved to the correct place01:07
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Riddellit may no longer exist01:07
Riddell_StefanS_: did you send that e-mail to infinity?01:07
_StefanS_Riddell: not yet. I was going to wait until I had finished compiling the last 4 packages01:08
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siretartapachelogger: no, xine doesn't support kioslaves01:26
siretartapachelogger: xine however does support various MRL schemes, see xine(5) for details01:26
apacheloggersiretart: yeah, but I think the smb thingy is br0ken01:26
apacheloggerI'm not really into smb stuff though ;-)01:26
siretartapachelogger: that's what I believe as well01:27
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_StefanS_Riddell: ctypes  (python-ctypes) needs lpia in debian/control under Architecture.02:17
_StefanS_Riddell: if you want to submit it.02:17
Riddell_StefanS_: can you send me a debdiff?02:17
Riddellas an attachment preferably02:18
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_StefanS_Riddell: uhm ok02:23
=== Hobbsee waves
_StefanS_hey hobbs02:24
_StefanS_Riddell: the attachment is in the  second mail02:24
_StefanS_Riddell: regular diff....02:24
Riddell_StefanS_: do you object to debdiffs?02:25
_StefanS_Riddell: no not at all.. I just cant never get it to work02:25
=== _StefanS_ is kinda hopeless when it comes to debdiff's :(
Riddelldch -i    ..add changelog..   debuild; cd ..; debdiff old.dsc new.dsc02:26
_StefanS_goody, I will write it down :)02:27
_StefanS_uhm I guess I missed the dch -i part02:28
_StefanS_thats why it didn't have anything to diff even though I changed the source02:28
Riddelloh, debuild -S, I forgot the -S02:28
_StefanS_oh yep.02:29
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RiddellHobbsee: I added you to motu-uvf, I noticed you had no negative votes :)02:29
HobbseeRiddell: who's dealing with amarok?02:29
HobbseeRiddell: yeah, somehow!  :P02:29
RiddellHobbsee: whoever grabs it first02:29
_StefanS_Riddell, Hobbsee: I'm compiling it for lpia if thats what you're talking about02:31
Riddell_StefanS_: no, we're talking about the new version, which needs to be packaged (and backported) by someone02:32
HobbseeRiddell: right02:32
_StefanS_oh ok02:32
HobbseeRiddell: then again, no idea how much ubuntu stuff i'll be doing, including if i'll have time to do -uvf02:35
Hobbseebut it will be useful to be able to shove kubuntu stuff thru02:35
Hobbseeinteresting answer.  Riddell's smiling over me saying i'll probably be spending less time on *ubuntu02:38
jjessei think we all are Hobbsee02:39
Hobbseejjesse: right, okay then02:39
=== ScottK should also be able to help with the shoving through ...
HobbseeScottK: excellent, so we have 2 kubuntu ack's, and can shove anything thru without gnome interference.  excellent.02:40
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Hobbseejjesse: i didnt know you wanted to get rid of me that much...02:40
jjesseHobbsee: i don't02:40
ScottKOf course I've been having less time for *ubuntu lately too...02:41
RiddellI'm smiling that kubuntu remains the important thing02:43
HobbseeRiddell: ah right02:43
HobbseeRiddell: yes, it tends to seem the most useful02:43
ScottKWell that's the thing I actually use every day.02:43
Hobbseeit's interesting - the top distros, apart from ubuntu, all seem to be shipping kde as their default...02:46
kwwiierm, redhat?02:49
Hobbseeokay, excluding redhat.02:49
ScottKHobbsee: Which are those (I'm curious)?02:49
Hobbseeyeah, pclinux07,02:49
ScottKIIRC, SUSE shipped Gnome/KDE on an equal footing now.02:49
Hobbseeoh, i thought it did kde02:49
kwwiinope, those days are gone02:50
ScottKSince Novell bought them the've leaned more and more towards Gnome.02:50
jjessefor opensuse you have the opportunity in the install ot specify either KDE or gnome02:50
=== Hobbsee was reading the marketing team ML
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\shRiddell: compiz and kde under gutsy? compiz-kde installed, but how do someone enable it?03:00
Hobbsee\sh: compiz --replace03:00
\shi did...03:00
\shno change03:00
\shwith gnome no problem03:01
Riddelldo you have compiz-fusion plugins installed?03:02
\shRiddell: is it installed by default?03:02
\shplugins-main is installed03:03
\shplugins-extra I don't know03:03
\shhmm...installing emerald ;)03:03
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\shand freeze ;)03:22
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Hobbsee\sh: undocumented feature.03:23
\shHobbsee: hehe...looks like03:23
\shlet's try it again03:23
Hobbsee\sh: it's the opposite to teh windows burning down03:23
Hobbsee\sh: oh - you cant ctrl+c the terminal compiz03:23
Hobbsee\sh: use kwin --replace to get out of compiz03:24
\shHobbsee: tbh, compiz --replace gives more problems then under gnome...03:26
Hobbsee\sh: yes, compiz and kde are not friends03:31
\shhopefully kde4 will solve this issue03:33
Riddell\sh: you got it working?03:38
\shRiddell: yepp...but only for a short time03:40
\shRiddell: kde3 and compiz...03:40
\shmany graphical bugs (top/bottom line of panel, depends where you moved the panel)03:41
\shthe keyboard shortcuts are gone, when switching from gnome to kde compiz03:41
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Riddell\sh: what did you need to do to get it working?03:45
\shRiddell: just a compiz --replace03:47
\shand you need compiz-kde installed03:47
\shbut how to change the keyboard shortcuts...I didn't manage...03:48
\shI'll check this evening when I have more time to investigate03:48
\sh(works here with the free radeon driver from xorg...M300 ati card)03:49
nixternalanyone else having external mouse issue at all?03:53
kwwiinixternal: yeah, I can find mine :p04:02
nixternalmine is acting like it the battery is dead, but I just replaced it04:03
nixternalthe touchpad works fine, but the external mouse is garbage right now04:03
=== Hobbsee uses an external penguin.
Tm_THobbsee: AAAAH!04:03
=== Tm_T will paint his next mouse to look like penguin
Tm_Tdon't laugh, its great idea!04:05
Riddellhmm, I wonder what's happened to Tonio04:08
Riddell_StefanS_: kdesudo is in main04:09
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Riddellanyone have tonio's phone number?  kwwii, manchicken?04:19
jjesseis there a meeting today?04:19
kwwiinope, I do not have it04:20
=== Hobbsee does not
Hobbseejjesse: not for kubuntu -it's not the first wednesday of the month04:20
Riddelljjesse: no, but he's been missing for 10 days and I need to know what's happening with bluetooth before FF04:20
nixternalRiddell: didn't he go on a vacation with his girlfriend?04:21
Riddellrings a bell04:22
jjesseive just mised the the last couple and didnt' want to miss another one04:22
nixternalI remember him saying something like "did I tell you I love her"04:22
Riddellgoing to Rome04:22
nixternalso I am wondering, you think he popped the question?04:22
Riddell"on vacation on sunday for 10 days"04:22
Riddellmm, in Rome, might be hard not to04:23
Riddellso he's gone until FF basicly04:23
Riddellanyone fancy updating his kdebluetooth packages and uploading?04:23
RiddellI don't know if there's fancy stuff that needs doing or not though04:24
nixternal08/03/07] [12:33:44] [    Tonio_]  Riddell: and I'll be on vacation on sunday for 10 days04:24
nixternal[08/03/07] [12:34:01] [    Tonio_]  going to visit roma, my girlfriend offered me the trip for my birthday :)04:24
nixternal[08/03/07] [12:34:10] [    Tonio_]  did I tell you I love her ? ^^04:24
nixternalso he has a couple of more days04:24
nixternalahh, I just noticed you posted it04:24
nixternalRiddell: I can update it, you can upload it :)04:25
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Riddellnixternal: I'm not sure where he was putting his packages04:27
Riddellfabo has the url to kdebluetooth betas04:27
nixternalI think in a PPA iirc04:27
Hobbseeor on his home repo, maybe04:27
nixternalkdebluetooth repos in pkg-kde?04:27
fabonixternal: tonio package is on his home repo04:32
nixternalah, OK, thanks04:32
Riddellnixternal: http://cryptomilch.de/~dgollub/kdebluetooth/  beta 6 here04:33
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RiddellI can't remember why it wasn't uploaded, it needs a new dependency or something04:34
=== Riddell really should have paid more attention
HobbseeRiddell: dont you log?04:34
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Riddellubuntulog does, but I can't find it just now04:35
fabobasket rules ;)04:35
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_StefanS_Riddell: sweet news about kdesudo04:54
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mhbRiddell: what is the plan with kdesudo? There was a person asking about it the other day.05:07
nixternalI think it was just added to kubuntu-meta (seen something in gutsy-changes about it)05:08
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nosrednaekimas for that bug that someone was reporting the other day with VIA chipsets and Kinfocenter, its definately a VIA video driver problem.05:09
nixternalRiddell: should I change the maintainer to Kubuntu Developers <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>?05:09
nosrednaekimI tried it out on a VIa computer.05:09
nixternalnosrednaekim: what bug is that?05:09
nixternalI have to via systems here to try and reproduce it on05:10
nosrednaekimI forget. :( but it was some bug where kinfo center would crash the whole computer when looking at the openGL status.05:10
nixternalworks fine here05:10
nosrednaekim(or at least crash X)05:10
nixternalbut then again I am not using binary drivers05:11
nosrednaekimare you using vesa? or "via"?05:11
nixternalati (dri r300 project)05:11
nixternalvia chipset though05:11
Riddellnixternal: can do05:11
nixternaltest building it now05:11
nosrednaekimnixternal: this had to do with the via graphics chip05:12
nixternalya, the via graphics chip, the xorg drivers for it are really really bad05:12
nosrednaekimyeah, the bug is (partly) reproducable on fiesty (kinfo center just crashes)05:13
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nixternalRiddell: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/nixternal/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kdebluetooth/kdebluetooth_1.0~beta6~r698638-0ubuntu1.dsc06:01
Riddellnixternal: groovy, any idea if it works?06:03
nixternalI don't have bluetooth on this machine to test it06:03
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nixternalthat's it..I am going to go buy some bluetooth toys this week06:03
Riddellfdoving: do I remember you have bluetooth?06:06
nixternalmy cellphone doesn't even have bluetooth...man I am cheap06:06
nixternala bluetooth usb adapter is fairly inexpensive...I can take my laptop to the mall and sit in the food court and borrow people's cell phones :D06:07
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tomanice artwork/kdm in gutsy atm!06:28
tomaola Hobbsee06:28
Hobbseetoma: i like your idea, btw06:28
tomahmm, which one ;-) ?06:29
tomai'm full of idea06:29
Hobbseetoma: the one about closing kde3 bugs, when kde4 releases06:30
tomaHobbsee: you do? o allright. I expected some objections from packagers06:30
ScottKHobbsee: Until KDE4 is the default supported version in a released version of Kubuntu, I don't think we should do that.06:31
HobbseeScottK: upstream b ugtracker06:32
Hobbseetoma: wlel, if you're not going to fix the bugs anyway, what's the point in having them?06:32
Hobbseeall tehy do is sit there and rot06:32
Hobbseei cant see the point06:32
nixternaltoma: I am onboard with the kde3 bug closing as well...I know Phil Rodgriguez and I already talked about it and are planning on something similar in the next few months06:32
ScottKWell until KDE4 is mature enough for mere mortals, don't be so sure you're done fixing KDE3.06:33
nixternalkde 3.5.8 is pretty much it, unless it is security or grave06:34
tomaHobbsee: i agree06:34
tomanixternal: planning on something similar?06:34
nixternalheh, there are still bugs from KDE 3.306:34
nixternalstuff with KHC and docs right now06:34
nixternalbut I have been following the KDE bugsquad and I know some of them have stated something similar06:35
tomathe reactions  on my blog are a bit mixed06:36
tomai think a somewhat mild version of my proposal can make it06:36
tomanot sure how to proceed though06:36
tomait will close the bugs in launchpad as well though06:38
tomai dont know if you aer happy with that06:38
Hobbseetoma: it'll close the upstream links06:38
Hobbseeand we can close based off that06:38
Hobbseepersonally, if upstream arent going to fix them, and we arent either, then what's the point in keeping them open?06:38
tomanow i need someone to explain the klamav thread to me06:39
ScottKWhat isn't clear?06:40
tomaWhat is not clear to me is why you dont want klamav to update its core06:40
ScottKFirst, as a matter of policy, updates should be done within the packaging system.06:41
ScottKSo, it's normal to disable functionality that allows updates external to the packaging system.06:41
ScottKSo, I'd put it the other way, why should we allow it?06:41
ScottKAdditionally, I've discovered that clamav can easily be made to use a mix of /usr/local and system files from different versions and that can't be a good thing.06:42
tomabecause i fear people will not have to right lines in the apt package manager to receive the updates at all and because people do not update every day06:42
ScottKBut to make the klamav approach work they also need to know enough to install the build-dependencies, which most people won't do either.06:43
ScottKAlso, -security is enabled by default and we've been very good about getting security updates for clamav done quickly.06:44
tomawhy would people need to have build-deps?06:44
ScottKAdditionally, desktop av doens't have the same level of criticality on Linux desktops as it does on Windows desktops.06:44
ScottKSo they can build the new version of the software from source.06:45
ScottKThat's what klamav does, it fetches the new upstream release, builds, and installs it in /usr/local.06:45
tomathat was not clear06:45
tomai thought it jst received a binary blob which was a standalone part of the scanning06:46
ScottKAlso, virus definitions are retrieved.06:46
ScottKThis is just for clamav engine upgrades.06:46
tomathanks, i'll reply to the list after dinner to cancel my objections06:47
ScottKOK.  Great.06:48
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nixternalconversation with su failed07:30
nixternalwhat does that mean when trying to run add/remove in feisty?07:30
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nixternalactually that error is in edgy...jeesh07:34
Riddellit means kdesu broke?07:34
nixternalthat is what I suspect07:35
nixternalbut he is supposedly getting this on a new system...trying to get him to upgrade07:35
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jc-dentonis there a plan to implement spellchecking in klauncher?09:32
jc-dentonwhich can correct errors with a distance of 1 or 2?09:32
jc-dentonwill it be able to compete with quicksilver (which katapult is not imho)09:33
jc-dentonwill the next kubuntu ship with kde4?09:33
TheInfinitykubuntu 7.10?09:35
TheInfinityno. kde4 is not final09:35
jc-dentonyes but it will be a bit after the release of the new kubuntu09:36
jc-dentonso i ask myself if you will delay it a bit09:36
ScottKIt's been discussed and it's just not possible.09:37
TheInfinitythere will be inoffical kde4 upgrades09:37
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TheInfinitybut they are not offically supported09:38
ScottKThe Kubuntu schedule is tied ot the Ubuntu schedule and there really is no mechanism to delay one without the other.09:38
jc-dentonwhat does mean not possible09:39
jc-dentonof course it is09:39
TheInfinityjc-denton: kubuntu.org offers inofficial kde upgrades09:40
TheInfinitythe have kde4 atm09:40
TheInfinitybut its just for testing09:40
jc-dentonyes but i don't want inoffical stuff if i upgrade to a new distro09:41
jc-dentoni'm already playing with them too09:41
TheInfinitythen you have to wait ;)09:41
TheInfinitykde 4.0 wnt be that stable i think, so its even better if theres some time09:41
jc-dentonno i'll switch to opensuse :P09:41
jc-denton(and waste my spare time with rpm dependencies)09:42
TheInfinitydo what you want ;909:42
jc-dentonbut nobody wants an old kde version with a new distro09:42
mhbjc-denton: KDE4 is very unstable by itself09:42
TheInfinityjc-denton: everyone who likes just a stable OS likes an old kde version ;)09:43
mhbjc-denton: actually, everyone wants the system to "just work" without tweaking, and KDE4 doesn't offer it yet09:43
mhbjc-denton: if you are a KDE enthusiast, you can easily install KDE4 with just a few packages09:44
nosrednaekimmhb: I am convinced that isn't hat gentoo users like ;)09:44
TheInfinityjc-denton: if you like the latest software sometimes with a lack of stability you can use sidux for example - or using the inofficial backports09:44
jc-dentoni'm not an enthusiast, i'm just interested09:44
TheInfinityor gento - there you will have always the latest software09:45
jc-dentonbut kde4 will then be final (which i also have problems to imagine, since i played with the kde4 beta)09:45
TheInfinityjc-denton: windows vista for example is also final09:46
TheInfinityi dont need to say more, dont I? ;)09:46
jc-dentonit's indeed very stable09:46
mhbjc-denton: you see, KDE4 has a beta available, but their "beta" is a lot different to the Kubuntu concept of "beta" version09:46
jc-dentonok maybe change topics09:46
mhbjc-denton: they don't have all the features there, which is a prerequisite for a beta09:46
jc-dentondoes anybody know about the new kde launcher09:47
mhbjc-denton: krunner?09:47
jc-dentonmhb: microsoft?09:47
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mhbjc-denton: no, KDE4 guys ...09:47
jc-dentonyes i read about this09:48
jc-dentonit will come available later09:48
jc-dentonbut that does not mean that 4.0 will be unstable09:48
mhbjc-denton: I'm afraid if KDE4.0 final will arrive at the planned date, it would be of "beta" quality for us09:48
ScottKjc-denton: For those of us who use Kubuntu for actual work that we get paid for, I think Gutsy with KDE4 by default would be a disaster.09:48
ScottKIt'd be time for me to look for another distro.09:48
sahin_hIs Kubuntu 8.04 will be provide KDE4 as default? I'm just wondering.09:48
TheInfinitysahin_h: depends on how stable kde4 is09:49
sahin_hIf not, I don't mind. I'm really just wondering.09:49
sahin_hSo is there hope for it?09:49
jc-dentonScottK: well kontact was and still is a desaster in every kubuntu distro ;)09:49
jc-dentonScottK: but i understand09:50
ScottKjc-denton: Oddly enough I've used it as my primary mail client for over two years with no real problems.09:50
ScottKActually 1 + years on Kubuntu.09:51
ScottKOpensuse and Xandros before that.09:51
mhbsahin_h: most likely not09:51
TheInfinityjc-denton: you never moved many mails in an IMAP folder ...09:51
jc-dentonScottK: i don't belive you09:51
mhbsahin_h: Kubuntu 8.04 will be an LTS release, so we should try and make it an exceptionally stable release09:51
jc-dentonwe tried to use it at work09:51
TheInfinity i meant ScottK09:51
jc-dentonwith kolab09:51
jc-dentonit never worked09:51
sahin_hmhb: Well this is sad, however you are the developers.09:51
ScottKTheInfinity: True.  I use pop, not imap.09:51
sahin_hI won't switch to opensuse. ;-)09:52
ScottKIf jc-denton had said IMAP is Kmail really sucks, I'd have agreed.09:52
TheInfinityScottK: i have ca. 500 MB mails in imap09:52
TheInfinityand there kmail really sucks09:52
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=== ScottK agrees.
jc-dentonTheInfinity: ?09:53
TheInfinitycached imap of course ;)09:53
ScottKsahin_h: I am a developer now, but that wasn't true most of the time I'be used Kontact/Kmail.09:53
jc-dentonScottK: well i mean that09:53
mhbsahin_h: if you think KDE4 will be production-ready for you at its release or in Kubuntu 8.04, you can easily switch to it09:53
jc-dentonnobody uses pop nowadays09:53
jc-dentonand kolab uses imap for everything09:53
ScottKThen I guess I'm nobody.09:53
mhbsahin_h: we will provide fully functional KDE4 packages. They just won't be the default.09:53
TheInfinityjc-denton: lots of people use pop3 at home09:54
jc-dentonyes my grandma09:54
sahin_hmhb: Ok. That's fine.09:54
ScottKEvery time I've tried IMAP I've lost mail.  Doesn't matter what client I used.09:54
mhbsahin_h: but we will provide instructions on how to set KDE4 as default, so everyone can make the switch if they want09:54
TheInfinitybut if you have an own server or a network in a company you have imap ;)09:54
sahin_hmhb: Even better!09:54
ScottKWell my company is the ideal size.  Employees == 1.09:54
sahin_hmhb: That's will be fine for me.09:54
TheInfinityScottK: I just have an own server in net and make some web projects. and have imap mail ;)09:55
jc-dentonScottK: too bad for you, you need to do all the work yourself :D09:58
jc-dentonjust curious.. what kind of company is it, ScottK ?09:59
ScottKI mostly do consulting in system engineering and also some SMTP related stuff.09:59
ScottKAnd I'd rather do all the work myself than deal with trying to manage getting other people to do it for me.10:00
jc-dentonsystem engineering == project management10:01
jc-dentonmaybe not == , but  like that?10:03
ScottKNo more on the technical end of working out the details of how different complex system interact.10:05
jc-dentonso you do coding? or sysadm related stuff?10:06
ScottKGroup A designs syste AA and Group B designs system BB.  When in-service will AA and BB work together well and how to make it better.10:06
ScottKI do some coding, but mostly for prototype work.10:06
ScottKIt's mostly design documentation.10:06
jc-dentonklauncher: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libQtDBus.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv10:07
jc-dentoni did as written on the kubuntu page10:07
jc-dentonalso with the export10:08
jc-dentoni want to try out klauncher now!! :(10:08
mhbjc-denton: do you mean krunner?10:10
mhbjc-denton: well why don't you test it then?10:11
jc-dentonno program works10:11
jc-dentonsee above10:11
mhbjc-denton: not true, it works here (Gutsy, KDE4 beta)10:11
jc-dentonwell i have feisty10:11
mhbjc-denton: do you have KDE4 beta packages installed?10:12
jc-dentonbut wait10:12
jc-dentonkdelibs5 kdelibs5-dev10:12
jc-dentonit could not install them10:12
mhbjc-denton: hmm, ask in #kubuntu support channel then10:13
jc-dentoni did10:13
jc-dentonthey told me to ask here10:13
mhbjc-denton: actually, the new krunner launcher is no marvel in beta10:14
mhbjc-denton: I tried to run it from KDE3, it launches, but it can't really do anything useful10:14
mhbjc-denton: you can either launch a command if you write the exact comamnd or launch a konsole10:15
mhbjc-denton: even KDE3's katapult can do more stuff at this point10:16
jc-dentonkatapult sucks10:16
jc-dentonmaybe we could hack up krunner10:16
jc-dentonbut i first have to get it running10:17
mhbjc-denton: I'm afraid I have no idea what the problem is.10:18
jc-dentonthe instructions on the page looked so easy10:18
jc-dentondid anybody try out the packaes on feisty actually?10:18
ScottKinstructions on a page are often that way.  no sorry, not me.10:19
mhbjc-denton: yes, people did and it worked well for them10:19
mhbjc-denton: are you sure you have all the latest Feisty updates and that you didn't miss any step?10:19
jc-dentonah wait10:23
jc-dentonapt-get installs other stuff then aptitude10:23
jc-dentonfirst it did not work with apt-get now with aptitude10:23
jc-dentonwhere is apt-work?10:23
fdovingRiddell: yes, you remember correctly, i have bluetooth.10:27
jc-dentonnow aptitude wants to remove all the things apt-get installed10:28
jc-dentonlooks completely broken to me10:28
jc-dentonmy other computer is still running edgy10:29
jc-dentoni guess i cant install it there10:29
nixternalfdoving: I put the kdebluetooth package on my PPA, but it seems there is an issue with a libobex dep in the PPA10:30
nixternaljc-denton: katapult is far from "sucks"10:30
jc-dentonnixternal: have you ever tried quicksilver?10:31
fdovingnixternal: PPA = personal package archive or something? (i'm like 1,5 weeks delayed in the online-world)10:31
nixternalwhat is quicksilver?10:31
nixternalfdoving: yes10:31
fdovingsounds like an apple-thing10:31
fdovingnixternal: from where did you get that kdebluetooth? url?10:31
jc-dentonthe thing katapult tries to be10:31
nixternalwell seeing that I haven't used proprietary software since the 90s, that would be no10:31
jc-dentonnixternal: do you have access to a mac?10:32
jc-dentonif so try it out10:32
jc-dentonif not search youtube10:32
nixternalfdoving: you just want my source files from the PPA so you can build it?10:32
jc-dentonnixternal: quiksilver is what katapult tries to be10:32
fdovingnixternal: sure. that would be ok.10:32
fdovingnixternal: i'll go get my cell.. hang on.10:32
jc-dentoneg you type ado, adobe or maybe just ad10:32
jc-dentonthen it shows you a list with the installed adobe software10:33
jc-dentonand the first choice is the one you use most10:33
nixternalfdoving: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/nixternal/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kdebluetooth/kdebluetooth_1.0~beta6~r698638-0ubuntu1.dsc10:33
jc-dentonyou can also type adboe10:33
jc-dentonand it will work10:33
nixternalthat is cool10:33
nixternalthat would probably be a fairly easy hack for Katapult to do the same I am sure...just gotta bop Mez in the head when he is around10:33
jc-dentonso compared to it katapult does not look that easy10:34
jc-dentonin what language is it written10:34
jc-dentonin what language is krunner written10:34
nixternalwill quicksilver open OpenOffice.org Writer by doing ->    o w10:34
jc-dentonkrunner should come with these capabilities10:34
jc-dentonthis here shows quicksilver10:35
mhbjc-denton: I think it will have those, but it doesn't have them yet10:35
jc-dentonbut u can't read the fonts on the screen, unfortunately10:35
jc-dentonmhb: would be cool10:36
jc-dentonand a plugin system10:36
jc-dentonso you can connect your mp3-, video player, browser, office, google suggest, etc to it10:37
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fdovingnixternal: sorry about the delay, kid woke up, (2nd. night in own bedroom). building.10:45
ScottKDo we really need to be installing NTFS stuff by default?  Urgh.10:49
jc-dentonand also flash and all proprietary codes imho10:50
jc-dentonbecause it sucks if you have to install them manually10:50
ScottKNTFS is only useful for people who are dual booting.10:50
ScottKI think it's defeatist to assume people will use Windows.10:51
fdovingnixternal: installed, what steps did you make to trigger this error?10:52
nixternalahh, that error was a build problem with the PPAs...I don't have bluetooth to test it, hence why Riddell called you out :)10:52
fdovingnixternal: it built nicely, installed too, but it doesn't work..10:53
mhbScottK: if we could, we would assume people are having all of the OSes in their systems10:54
mhbScottK: how is the presence of a driver problematic to you?10:54
mhbScottK: I mean - you surely have a driver for HFS in your system and you dont mind much10:55
ScottKI suppose.10:56
ScottKI just think it's not right to assume that Windows compatibility is something everyone cares about.10:57
ScottKI don't view NTFS support as "a file system that some people use, but I don't10:57
ScottKI view it as "Windows compatibliity cruft that's not even potentially of use to me"10:57
jc-dentonwell maybe not everybody10:58
jc-dentonbut 90% at least10:58
mhbScottK: I think we can gain more users when "the software/driver is there when you need it"10:58
fdovingit's nice when you sometimes need to help customers recover their NTFS-stored critical data.10:58
fdovingsome magic with a livecd and usb-disks.10:58
ScottKI guess I'll sit down and quit whining.10:59
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mhbScottK: well, come back whining when this issue is the highest priority unfixed bug in Launchpad :o)11:00
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=== ScottK just dislikes seeing stuff get installed he'll never use.
=== ScottK sits down again.
mhbScottK: oh, and if you have time for whining, perhaps you also have time to set up distcc on a slow box and a fast box together and then use delta debugging to target the bug in python-kde3/konsole kpart11:01
mhb(joke :o)11:01
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nixternalhas anything been said about getting nspluginwrapper and oo.o working again in Gutsy? this is the longest lasting break I have ever seen11:07
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fdovingnixternal: i investigated that issue a while back. (around 2 weeks ago). and it's unclear to me where exactly the problem is.11:08
fdovingi'm kind of waiting for the novell/suse guys to figure it out :)11:09
Riddellkwwii: do you still have that sample kubuntu banner from last year?11:21
Riddellkwwii: it might be needed for froscon if we can't get the poster stand out of glasgow11:21
kwwiiRiddell: not sure...which one?11:21
kwwiiahh, you mean the small printed one11:21
kwwiiyes, I have it11:21
Riddellkwwii: you said you had a sample one from akademy 200711:21
kwwiilet me know if I can send it to you11:21
Riddellkwwii: froscon is in germany, I have an address it can go to11:22
kwwiigreat, let me know and I can send it tomorrow11:22
kwwiiwithin germany normal post arrives within two days11:23
kwwiiif it is close, 1 day11:23
kwwiibtw. perhaps we should discuss UDS invitation-invitations11:25
Riddellkwwii: I put the names I have on that wiki page jono made, with this new conference format thingy I've no idea how many people we're likely to be able to invite11:26
kwwiiRiddell: well, as far as artwork goes I was unsure who to invite, so I thought it might help if I invited some people as well11:27
Riddellbut if you're unsure who to invite, who would you invite?11:28
kwwiiruphy and kevin11:28
Riddellkevin ottens?11:29
kwwiipoint being, if you have ideas let me know11:29
Riddellwho's that other oxygen guy that has been doing tidying up?11:29
RiddellDavid Jonathon Miller11:29
kwwiiI talked to him - he said he can't come11:30
Riddellwell artwork people is something we're lacking so ruphy sure, kevin I always love to have around but he's been before and you'd need to have a reason11:32
kwwiiright...I'll do what I can and see how it works out11:36
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Riddelladd them to the wiki page, always worth a shot11:37
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Riddellkwwii: e-mailed about the poster with you in CC11:54
kwwiiRiddell: received it...one thing to note is that the banner I have is horizontal in layout11:55
kwwiiactually, I was not that far from nevesfelde on Sunday11:55
RiddellI believe they have a room rather than just a stand, there will be somewhere to put it as long as they bring string11:55
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kwwiiI can put a bit of string in with the banner, just in case11:56
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nixternalg'nite sir11:58
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