[12:22] <innovati> so, does anybody here recall what the default windeco and widget style are for kubuntu or will be default in the upcoming releasE?
[12:26] <mhb> innovati: they will be the same as in Feisty
[12:26] <mhb> innovati: most likely
[12:27] <mhb> innovati: that means Crystal windeco and Polyester widget style
[12:27] <innovati> mhb: hmm, I think I left the default settings ~10 minutes after installing it haha, thanks
[12:27] <innovati> oh yes, I recall polyester, it's a nice style isn't it
[12:28] <mhb> it's not that bad
[12:28] <innovati> haha so shiny all of a sudden haha
[01:19] <MaximLevitsky> Hi
[01:20] <kubuntu> i just klicked on my trash can and it asked me what do i want to open it with? anybody know about that?
[01:21] <MaximLevitsky> Two days before I told here that I found some bugs in kdesu, and that kdesudo is far from perfect. I need to know which one kubuntu will use,so I can fix it
[01:22] <kubuntu> how about kdesu
[01:22] <MaximLevitsky> I mean will kdesu be replaced with kdesudo?
[01:23] <kubuntu> dont know
[01:23] <mhb> MaximLevitsky: that's a good question, but most of the people here are asleep. I would recommend using the kubuntu-devel mailing list.
[01:23] <kubuntu> i just klicked on my trash can and it asked me what do i want to open it with? anybody know about that?
[01:23] <mhb> kubuntu: nope :o) you should try the #kubuntu channel, we're not exactly support here, sorry.
[01:24] <kubuntu> ok thanks mhb
[01:24] <MaximLevitsky> mhb, sure i will ask, thanks
[01:24] <MaximLevitsky> i/I
[01:24] <mhb> MaximLevitsky: my bet is on "kdesu" staying the default, but ask there to make sure
[01:26] <MaximLevitsky> mhb, thanks a lot, and btw I agree with you, I also find it better that kdesudo
[02:13] <pgquiles> nixternal: ping
[07:07] <Hobbsee> manchicken__: pong
[07:09] <nixternal> hiya Hobbsee
[07:09] <Hobbsee> heya nixternal!
[07:10] <n8k99> heya nixternal and Hobbsee!
[07:10] <Hobbsee> mhb: compiz is by default for machines that support it
[07:10] <Hobbsee> mhb: if they dont, it drops back to metacity
[07:10] <Hobbsee> hiya n8k99!
[07:11] <nixternal> hola
[07:12] <Hobbsee> fabo: seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/132096 ?
[07:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132096 in kvpnc "Upgrade disables vpn client kvpnc" [Undecided,New] 
[07:12] <mhb> Hobbsee: ah, thanks for enlightening me
[07:13] <Hobbsee> (as we keep finding major bugs each tribe)
[07:14] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kubuntu/index/C/index.html
[07:14] <nixternal> how does that index look? all of the 'How do I...' stuff will be links to the answers
[07:53] <fabo> Hobbsee: on previous kvpnc, pkcs11-tool wasn't supported, opensc was added on 0.8.9
[07:53] <fabo> Hobbsee: as kvpnc can support multiple vpnc type of connection, every "helper" is a suggests
[07:53] <Hobbsee> fabo: ah right
[07:54] <fabo> don't need to explain the rationale :)
[10:35] <Riddell> anyone want to package the new amarok?
[10:55] <siretart> anying using xine based applications with the smb:// url?
[10:57] <Riddell> wouldn't have thought xine could work with smb://
[10:58] <Riddell> I'm pretty sure amarok doesn't do a great job of it, apachelogger_ may know
[10:59] <apachelogger_> xine doesn't support kio slaves
[11:00] <apachelogger_> siretart: though I have been told for years that it's being worked on, I never saw anything working... ;-)
[11:00] <apachelogger_> Riddell: btw, the amarok package should get a debug package, debian added it in 1.4.6
[11:01] <Riddell> all our packages have debug packages
[11:01] <Riddell> (you just have to know where to get them)
[11:01] <apachelogger_> lol
[11:01] <apachelogger_> do they get hidden?
[11:07] <Riddell> they're on an obscure archive somewhere
[11:07] <apachelogger_> hm
[11:07] <Riddell> jdong: did ktorrent get a fix?
[11:07] <Riddell> apachelogger_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-September/000195.html
[11:07] <apachelogger_> Riddell: thx
[11:07] <apachelogger_> Riddell: that does ship debug symbols for everything, just not backports :|
[11:07] <Riddell> apachelogger_: yes, why the long face?
[11:07] <apachelogger_> Riddell: how is one supposed to take a proper backtrace from a backports package?
[11:09] <Riddell> apachelogger_: in theory it should just work
[11:09] <Riddell> oh, it /doesn't/ have backports, I misread you
[11:10] <apachelogger_> :P
[11:10] <Riddell> dunno, pitti would know why it wasn't included
[11:16] <Tm_T> hi manchicken_
[11:17] <ijuz__> NetworkManager is the suck, all my laptop says is "NetworkManager: <info> Error getting killswitch power: org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.KillSwitch.NotSupported - Access type not supported"
[11:24] <_StefanS_> Riddell: compile is progressing rather well.. have a few packages that cause probs
[11:28] <Riddell> _StefanS_: what causes problems?
[11:29] <_StefanS_> Riddell: libxml-parser-perl and libxml-encoding-perl depend on eachother to build, subversion is missing gcj build-dependency, rpm depends on libdb4.4 but libdb4.5 is required by some other packages, so they need to be swapped
[11:30] <_StefanS_> libneon25-dev changed to libneon26-dev in rpm debian/rules as well.
[11:30] <_StefanS_> but nothing yet for i386 vs. lpia
[11:31] <_StefanS_> Riddell: here's the list of the stuff currently rebuilt: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/33551/
[11:32] <Riddell> _StefanS_: which of those are blocked by the above issues?
[11:32] <_StefanS_> Riddell: These are: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/33552/
[11:33] <Riddell> _StefanS_: ok, please e-mail the list of good kde modules and dependencies that still need to be built to infinity
[11:33] <Riddell> and cc me and doko
[11:33] <_StefanS_> righto.
[11:33] <_StefanS_> quite a list ;)
[11:33] <Riddell> you can also add the list of issues you have above at the end
[11:33] <Riddell> yep, great stuff :)
[11:35] <_StefanS_> uhm I expect the whole list you mailed me to be rebuilt later today, so I'll mail the list once I'm done. And ofcourse include any issues with it
[11:35] <_StefanS_> ok?
[11:37] <_StefanS_> Riddell: it would be really cool to have some of these backgrounds included within kubuntu .. : http://djmattricks.deviantart.com/gallery/ specifically the "vplants" collection
[11:37] <_StefanS_> they're downright amazing.
[11:38] <Riddell> we already have a background for gutsy
[11:38] <Riddell> of course he can submit the artwork to the kde oxygen background competition
[11:45] <_StefanS_> well I dont know the guy, I just sorta stumbled upon the backgrounds
[11:45] <_StefanS_> :)
[11:58] <fabo> Riddell: builds fine under feisty confirmation -> strigi_0.5.5-2build1 + kde4libs_3.92.0-0ubuntu3
[12:01] <Riddell> fabo: do I need to make kde4libs build-dep on that strigi version?
[12:03] <fabo> Riddell: it is recommended. kde4libs_3.92.0-0ubuntu3 build only with strigi_0.5.5-2build1
[12:04] <Riddell> ok
[12:53] <doc_> hi there :)
[12:54] <Riddell> hi doc_, has your island burnt down?
[12:54] <doc_> a littel :/ thanks for asking :)
[12:54] <Riddell> at least your internet seems to be working, that's the important thing
[12:55] <doc__> hehehehe of course :)
[12:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: found a bug related to that networkstatus in kdelibs, will try to fix and make a patch for you.
[12:55] <_StefanS_> ouch.. cpu is 99 degrees celcius. Better find my external fan :D
[01:06] <Riddell> _StefanS_: what's that?
[01:07] <_StefanS_> Riddell: cp: cannot stat `.//usr/bin/networkstatustestservice': No such file or directory
[01:07] <_StefanS_> Riddell: gotta find out why that binary is not created/moved to the correct place
[01:07] <Riddell> it may no longer exist
[01:07] <Riddell> _StefanS_: did you send that e-mail to infinity?
[01:08] <_StefanS_> Riddell: not yet. I was going to wait until I had finished compiling the last 4 packages
[01:26] <siretart> apachelogger: no, xine doesn't support kioslaves
[01:26] <siretart> apachelogger: xine however does support various MRL schemes, see xine(5) for details
[01:26] <apachelogger> siretart: yeah, but I think the smb thingy is br0ken
[01:26] <apachelogger> I'm not really into smb stuff though ;-)
[01:27] <siretart> apachelogger: that's what I believe as well
[02:17] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ctypes  (python-ctypes) needs lpia in debian/control under Architecture.
[02:17] <_StefanS_> Riddell: if you want to submit it.
[02:17] <Riddell> _StefanS_: can you send me a debdiff?
[02:18] <Riddell> as an attachment preferably
[02:23] <_StefanS_> Riddell: uhm ok
[02:24] <_StefanS_> hey hobbs
[02:24] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the attachment is in the  second mail
[02:24] <_StefanS_> Riddell: regular diff....
[02:25] <Riddell> _StefanS_: do you object to debdiffs?
[02:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: no not at all.. I just cant never get it to work
[02:26] <Riddell> dch -i    ..add changelog..   debuild; cd ..; debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
[02:27] <_StefanS_> goody, I will write it down :)
[02:28] <_StefanS_> uhm I guess I missed the dch -i part
[02:28] <_StefanS_> thats why it didn't have anything to diff even though I changed the source
[02:28] <Riddell> oh, debuild -S, I forgot the -S
[02:29] <_StefanS_> oh yep.
[02:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I added you to motu-uvf, I noticed you had no negative votes :)
[02:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: who's dealing with amarok?
[02:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, somehow!  :P
[02:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: whoever grabs it first
[02:31] <_StefanS_> Riddell, Hobbsee: I'm compiling it for lpia if thats what you're talking about
[02:32] <Riddell> _StefanS_: no, we're talking about the new version, which needs to be packaged (and backported) by someone
[02:32] <Hobbsee> Riddell: right
[02:32] <_StefanS_> oh ok
[02:35] <Hobbsee> Riddell: then again, no idea how much ubuntu stuff i'll be doing, including if i'll have time to do -uvf
[02:35] <Hobbsee> but it will be useful to be able to shove kubuntu stuff thru
[02:36] <Riddell> :)
[02:38] <Hobbsee> interesting answer.  Riddell's smiling over me saying i'll probably be spending less time on *ubuntu
[02:39] <jjesse> i think we all are Hobbsee
[02:39] <Hobbsee> jjesse: right, okay then
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ScottK: excellent, so we have 2 kubuntu ack's, and can shove anything thru without gnome interference.  excellent.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> jjesse: i didnt know you wanted to get rid of me that much...
[02:40] <jjesse> Hobbsee: i don't
[02:41] <ScottK> Of course I've been having less time for *ubuntu lately too...
[02:43] <Riddell> I'm smiling that kubuntu remains the important thing
[02:43] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right
[02:43] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, it tends to seem the most useful
[02:43] <ScottK> Well that's the thing I actually use every day.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> it's interesting - the top distros, apart from ubuntu, all seem to be shipping kde as their default...
[02:49] <kwwii> erm, redhat?
[02:49] <Hobbsee> okay, excluding redhat.
[02:49] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Which are those (I'm curious)?
[02:49] <ScottK> opensuse?
[02:49] <Hobbsee> yeah, pclinux07,
[02:49] <ScottK> IIRC, SUSE shipped Gnome/KDE on an equal footing now.
[02:49] <Hobbsee> http://distrowatch.com/
[02:49] <Hobbsee> oh, i thought it did kde
[02:50] <kwwii> nope, those days are gone
[02:50] <ScottK> Since Novell bought them the've leaned more and more towards Gnome.
[02:50] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[02:50] <Hobbsee> dodgy
[02:50] <jjesse> for opensuse you have the opportunity in the install ot specify either KDE or gnome
[03:00] <\sh> Riddell: compiz and kde under gutsy? compiz-kde installed, but how do someone enable it?
[03:00] <Hobbsee> \sh: compiz --replace
[03:00] <\sh> i did...
[03:00] <\sh> no change
[03:01] <\sh> with gnome no problem
[03:02] <Riddell> do you have compiz-fusion plugins installed?
[03:02] <\sh> Riddell: is it installed by default?
[03:02] <Riddell> no
[03:03] <\sh> plugins-main is installed
[03:03] <\sh> plugins-extra I don't know
[03:03] <\sh> hmm...installing emerald ;)
[03:22] <\sh> and freeze ;)
[03:23] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:23] <Hobbsee> \sh: undocumented feature.
[03:23] <\sh> Hobbsee: hehe...looks like
[03:23] <\sh> let's try it again
[03:23] <Hobbsee> \sh: it's the opposite to teh windows burning down
[03:23] <Hobbsee> \sh: oh - you cant ctrl+c the terminal compiz
[03:24] <Hobbsee> \sh: use kwin --replace to get out of compiz
[03:26] <\sh> Hobbsee: tbh, compiz --replace gives more problems then under gnome...
[03:31] <Hobbsee> \sh: yes, compiz and kde are not friends
[03:33] <\sh> hopefully kde4 will solve this issue
[03:36] <nixternal> mornin'
[03:38] <Riddell> \sh: you got it working?
[03:40] <\sh> Riddell: yepp...but only for a short time
[03:40] <\sh> Riddell: kde3 and compiz...
[03:41] <\sh> many graphical bugs (top/bottom line of panel, depends where you moved the panel)
[03:41] <\sh> the keyboard shortcuts are gone, when switching from gnome to kde compiz
[03:45] <Riddell> \sh: what did you need to do to get it working?
[03:47] <\sh> Riddell: just a compiz --replace
[03:47] <\sh> and you need compiz-kde installed
[03:48] <\sh> but how to change the keyboard shortcuts...I didn't manage...
[03:48] <\sh> I'll check this evening when I have more time to investigate
[03:49] <\sh> (works here with the free radeon driver from xorg...M300 ati card)
[03:53] <nixternal> anyone else having external mouse issue at all?
[04:02] <kwwii> nixternal: yeah, I can find mine :p
[04:03] <nixternal> mine is acting like it the battery is dead, but I just replaced it
[04:03] <nixternal> the touchpad works fine, but the external mouse is garbage right now
[04:03] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: AAAAH!
[04:04] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:05] <Tm_T> don't laugh, its great idea!
[04:08] <Riddell> hmm, I wonder what's happened to Tonio
[04:09] <Riddell> _StefanS_: kdesudo is in main
[04:19] <Riddell> anyone have tonio's phone number?  kwwii, manchicken?
[04:19] <jjesse> is there a meeting today?
[04:20] <kwwii> nope, I do not have it
[04:20] <Hobbsee> jjesse: not for kubuntu -it's not the first wednesday of the month
[04:20] <Riddell> jjesse: no, but he's been missing for 10 days and I need to know what's happening with bluetooth before FF
[04:21] <nixternal> Riddell: didn't he go on a vacation with his girlfriend?
[04:22] <jjesse> ah
[04:22] <Riddell> rings a bell
[04:22] <jjesse> ive just mised the the last couple and didnt' want to miss another one
[04:22] <nixternal> I remember him saying something like "did I tell you I love her"
[04:22] <Riddell> going to Rome
[04:22] <nixternal> so I am wondering, you think he popped the question?
[04:22] <Riddell> "on vacation on sunday for 10 days"
[04:23] <Riddell> mm, in Rome, might be hard not to
[04:23] <nixternal> right
[04:23] <Riddell> so he's gone until FF basicly
[04:23] <Riddell> anyone fancy updating his kdebluetooth packages and uploading?
[04:24] <Riddell> I don't know if there's fancy stuff that needs doing or not though
[04:24] <nixternal> 08/03/07] [12:33:44] [    Tonio_]  Riddell: and I'll be on vacation on sunday for 10 days
[04:24] <nixternal> [08/03/07] [12:34:01] [    Tonio_]  going to visit roma, my girlfriend offered me the trip for my birthday :)
[04:24] <nixternal> [08/03/07] [12:34:10] [    Tonio_]  did I tell you I love her ? ^^
[04:24] <nixternal> :)
[04:24] <nixternal> so he has a couple of more days
[04:24] <nixternal> ahh, I just noticed you posted it
[04:25] <nixternal> Riddell: I can update it, you can upload it :)
[04:27] <Riddell> nixternal: I'm not sure where he was putting his packages
[04:27] <Riddell> fabo has the url to kdebluetooth betas
[04:27] <nixternal> I think in a PPA iirc
[04:27] <Hobbsee> or on his home repo, maybe
[04:27] <nixternal> kdebluetooth repos in pkg-kde?
[04:28] <nixternal> kde-extras
[04:32] <fabo> nixternal: tonio package is on his home repo
[04:32] <nixternal> ah, OK, thanks
[04:33] <Riddell> nixternal: http://cryptomilch.de/~dgollub/kdebluetooth/  beta 6 here
[04:33] <fabo> :)
[04:34] <Riddell> I can't remember why it wasn't uploaded, it needs a new dependency or something
[04:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: dont you log?
[04:35] <Riddell> ubuntulog does, but I can't find it just now
[04:35] <fabo> basket rules ;)
[04:45] <bddebian> Heya
[04:54] <_StefanS_> Riddell: sweet news about kdesudo
[05:07] <mhb> Riddell: what is the plan with kdesudo? There was a person asking about it the other day.
[05:08] <nixternal> I think it was just added to kubuntu-meta (seen something in gutsy-changes about it)
[05:09] <nosrednaekim> as for that bug that someone was reporting the other day with VIA chipsets and Kinfocenter, its definately a VIA video driver problem.
[05:09] <nixternal> Riddell: should I change the maintainer to Kubuntu Developers <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>?
[05:09] <nosrednaekim> I tried it out on a VIa computer.
[05:09] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: what bug is that?
[05:10] <nixternal> I have to via systems here to try and reproduce it on
[05:10] <nixternal> s/to/two
[05:10] <nosrednaekim> I forget. :( but it was some bug where kinfo center would crash the whole computer when looking at the openGL status.
[05:10] <nixternal> works fine here
[05:10] <nosrednaekim> (or at least crash X)
[05:11] <nixternal> but then again I am not using binary drivers
[05:11] <nosrednaekim> are you using vesa? or "via"?
[05:11] <nixternal> ati (dri r300 project)
[05:11] <nixternal> via chipset though
[05:11] <Riddell> nixternal: can do
[05:11] <nixternal> k
[05:11] <nixternal> test building it now
[05:12] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: this had to do with the via graphics chip
[05:12] <nixternal> ahh
[05:12] <nixternal> ya, the via graphics chip, the xorg drivers for it are really really bad
[05:13] <nosrednaekim> yeah, the bug is (partly) reproducable on fiesty (kinfo center just crashes)
[06:01] <nixternal> Riddell: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/nixternal/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kdebluetooth/kdebluetooth_1.0~beta6~r698638-0ubuntu1.dsc
[06:03] <Riddell> nixternal: groovy, any idea if it works?
[06:03] <nixternal> I don't have bluetooth on this machine to test it
[06:03] <nixternal> that's it..I am going to go buy some bluetooth toys this week
[06:06] <Riddell> fdoving: do I remember you have bluetooth?
[06:06] <nixternal> my cellphone doesn't even have bluetooth...man I am cheap
[06:07] <nixternal> a bluetooth usb adapter is fairly inexpensive...I can take my laptop to the mall and sit in the food court and borrow people's cell phones :D
[06:28] <toma> nice artwork/kdm in gutsy atm!
[06:28] <Hobbsee> toma!
[06:28] <toma> ola Hobbsee
[06:28] <Hobbsee> toma: i like your idea, btw
[06:29] <toma> hmm, which one ;-) ?
[06:29] <toma> i'm full of idea
[06:29] <toma> s
[06:30] <Hobbsee> toma: the one about closing kde3 bugs, when kde4 releases
[06:30] <toma> Hobbsee: you do? o allright. I expected some objections from packagers
[06:31] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Until KDE4 is the default supported version in a released version of Kubuntu, I don't think we should do that.
[06:32] <Hobbsee> ScottK: upstream b ugtracker
[06:32] <Hobbsee> toma: wlel, if you're not going to fix the bugs anyway, what's the point in having them?
[06:32] <ScottK> Ah.
[06:32] <Hobbsee> all tehy do is sit there and rot
[06:32] <Hobbsee> i cant see the point
[06:32] <nixternal> toma: I am onboard with the kde3 bug closing as well...I know Phil Rodgriguez and I already talked about it and are planning on something similar in the next few months
[06:33] <ScottK> Well until KDE4 is mature enough for mere mortals, don't be so sure you're done fixing KDE3.
[06:34] <nixternal> kde 3.5.8 is pretty much it, unless it is security or grave
[06:34] <toma> Hobbsee: i agree
[06:34] <toma> nixternal: planning on something similar?
[06:34] <nixternal> heh, there are still bugs from KDE 3.3
[06:34] <nixternal> stuff with KHC and docs right now
[06:35] <nixternal> but I have been following the KDE bugsquad and I know some of them have stated something similar
[06:36] <toma> the reactions  on my blog are a bit mixed
[06:36] <toma> i think a somewhat mild version of my proposal can make it
[06:36] <toma> not sure how to proceed though
[06:38] <toma> it will close the bugs in launchpad as well though
[06:38] <toma> i dont know if you aer happy with that
[06:38] <Hobbsee> toma: it'll close the upstream links
[06:38] <Hobbsee> and we can close based off that
[06:38] <toma> k
[06:38] <Hobbsee> personally, if upstream arent going to fix them, and we arent either, then what's the point in keeping them open?
[06:39] <toma> +1
[06:39] <toma> now i need someone to explain the klamav thread to me
[06:40] <ScottK> What isn't clear?
[06:40] <toma> What is not clear to me is why you dont want klamav to update its core
[06:41] <ScottK> First, as a matter of policy, updates should be done within the packaging system.
[06:41] <ScottK> So, it's normal to disable functionality that allows updates external to the packaging system.
[06:41] <ScottK> So, I'd put it the other way, why should we allow it?
[06:42] <ScottK> Additionally, I've discovered that clamav can easily be made to use a mix of /usr/local and system files from different versions and that can't be a good thing.
[06:42] <toma> because i fear people will not have to right lines in the apt package manager to receive the updates at all and because people do not update every day
[06:43] <ScottK> But to make the klamav approach work they also need to know enough to install the build-dependencies, which most people won't do either.
[06:44] <ScottK> Also, -security is enabled by default and we've been very good about getting security updates for clamav done quickly.
[06:44] <toma> why would people need to have build-deps?
[06:44] <ScottK> Additionally, desktop av doens't have the same level of criticality on Linux desktops as it does on Windows desktops.
[06:45] <ScottK> So they can build the new version of the software from source.
[06:45] <ScottK> That's what klamav does, it fetches the new upstream release, builds, and installs it in /usr/local.
[06:45] <toma> ahhh
[06:45] <toma> that was not clear
[06:46] <toma> i thought it jst received a binary blob which was a standalone part of the scanning
[06:46] <ScottK> No.
[06:46] <ScottK> Also, virus definitions are retrieved.
[06:46] <ScottK> This is just for clamav engine upgrades.
[06:46] <toma> right
[06:47] <toma> thanks, i'll reply to the list after dinner to cancel my objections
[06:48] <ScottK> OK.  Great.
[07:30] <nixternal> conversation with su failed
[07:30] <nixternal> what does that mean when trying to run add/remove in feisty?
[07:34] <nixternal> actually that error is in edgy...jeesh
[07:34] <Riddell> it means kdesu broke?
[07:35] <nixternal> that is what I suspect
[07:35] <nixternal> but he is supposedly getting this on a new system...trying to get him to upgrade
[09:32] <jc-denton> is there a plan to implement spellchecking in klauncher?
[09:32] <jc-denton> which can correct errors with a distance of 1 or 2?
[09:33] <jc-denton> will it be able to compete with quicksilver (which katapult is not imho)
[09:33] <jc-denton> will the next kubuntu ship with kde4?
[09:35] <TheInfinity> kubuntu 7.10?
[09:35] <jc-denton> yes
[09:35] <TheInfinity> no. kde4 is not final
[09:36] <jc-denton> yes but it will be a bit after the release of the new kubuntu
[09:36] <jc-denton> so i ask myself if you will delay it a bit
[09:37] <ScottK> It's been discussed and it's just not possible.
[09:37] <TheInfinity> there will be inoffical kde4 upgrades
[09:38] <TheInfinity> but they are not offically supported
[09:38] <ScottK> The Kubuntu schedule is tied ot the Ubuntu schedule and there really is no mechanism to delay one without the other.
[09:39] <jc-denton> where?
[09:39] <jc-denton> what does mean not possible
[09:39] <jc-denton> of course it is
[09:40] <TheInfinity> jc-denton: kubuntu.org offers inofficial kde upgrades
[09:40] <TheInfinity> the have kde4 atm
[09:40] <TheInfinity> but its just for testing
[09:41] <jc-denton> yes but i don't want inoffical stuff if i upgrade to a new distro
[09:41] <jc-denton> i'm already playing with them too
[09:41] <TheInfinity> then you have to wait ;)
[09:41] <TheInfinity> kde 4.0 wnt be that stable i think, so its even better if theres some time
[09:41] <jc-denton> no i'll switch to opensuse :P
[09:42] <jc-denton> (and waste my spare time with rpm dependencies)
[09:42] <TheInfinity> do what you want ;9
[09:42] <jc-denton> but nobody wants an old kde version with a new distro
[09:42] <mhb> jc-denton: KDE4 is very unstable by itself
[09:43] <TheInfinity> jc-denton: everyone who likes just a stable OS likes an old kde version ;)
[09:43] <mhb> jc-denton: actually, everyone wants the system to "just work" without tweaking, and KDE4 doesn't offer it yet
[09:44] <mhb> jc-denton: if you are a KDE enthusiast, you can easily install KDE4 with just a few packages
[09:44] <nosrednaekim> mhb: I am convinced that isn't hat gentoo users like ;)
[09:44] <TheInfinity> jc-denton: if you like the latest software sometimes with a lack of stability you can use sidux for example - or using the inofficial backports
[09:44] <jc-denton> i'm not an enthusiast, i'm just interested
[09:44] <nosrednaekim> *what
[09:45] <TheInfinity> or gento - there you will have always the latest software
[09:45] <jc-denton> but kde4 will then be final (which i also have problems to imagine, since i played with the kde4 beta)
[09:46] <TheInfinity> jc-denton: windows vista for example is also final
[09:46] <TheInfinity> i dont need to say more, dont I? ;)
[09:46] <jc-denton> it's indeed very stable
[09:46] <mhb> jc-denton: you see, KDE4 has a beta available, but their "beta" is a lot different to the Kubuntu concept of "beta" version
[09:46] <jc-denton> ok maybe change topics
[09:46] <mhb> jc-denton: they don't have all the features there, which is a prerequisite for a beta
[09:47] <jc-denton> does anybody know about the new kde launcher
[09:47] <mhb> jc-denton: krunner?
[09:47] <jc-denton> mhb: microsoft?
[09:47] <mhb> jc-denton: no, KDE4 guys ...
[09:48] <jc-denton> yes i read about this
[09:48] <jc-denton> it will come available later
[09:48] <jc-denton> but that does not mean that 4.0 will be unstable
[09:48] <mhb> jc-denton: I'm afraid if KDE4.0 final will arrive at the planned date, it would be of "beta" quality for us
[09:48] <ScottK> jc-denton: For those of us who use Kubuntu for actual work that we get paid for, I think Gutsy with KDE4 by default would be a disaster.
[09:48] <ScottK> It'd be time for me to look for another distro.
[09:48] <sahin_h> Is Kubuntu 8.04 will be provide KDE4 as default? I'm just wondering.
[09:49] <TheInfinity> sahin_h: depends on how stable kde4 is
[09:49] <sahin_h> If not, I don't mind. I'm really just wondering.
[09:49] <sahin_h> So is there hope for it?
[09:49] <jc-denton> ScottK: well kontact was and still is a desaster in every kubuntu distro ;)
[09:50] <jc-denton> ScottK: but i understand
[09:50] <ScottK> jc-denton: Oddly enough I've used it as my primary mail client for over two years with no real problems.
[09:51] <ScottK> Actually 1 + years on Kubuntu.
[09:51] <ScottK> Opensuse and Xandros before that.
[09:51] <mhb> sahin_h: most likely not
[09:51] <TheInfinity> jc-denton: you never moved many mails in an IMAP folder ...
[09:51] <jc-denton> ScottK: i don't belive you
[09:51] <mhb> sahin_h: Kubuntu 8.04 will be an LTS release, so we should try and make it an exceptionally stable release
[09:51] <jc-denton> we tried to use it at work
[09:51] <TheInfinity>  i meant ScottK
[09:51] <jc-denton> with kolab
[09:51] <jc-denton> it never worked
[09:51] <sahin_h> mhb: Well this is sad, however you are the developers.
[09:51] <ScottK> TheInfinity: True.  I use pop, not imap.
[09:52] <sahin_h> I won't switch to opensuse. ;-)
[09:52] <ScottK> If jc-denton had said IMAP is Kmail really sucks, I'd have agreed.
[09:52] <TheInfinity> ScottK: i have ca. 500 MB mails in imap
[09:52] <TheInfinity> and there kmail really sucks
[09:53] <jc-denton> TheInfinity: ?
[09:53] <TheInfinity> cached imap of course ;)
[09:53] <ScottK> sahin_h: I am a developer now, but that wasn't true most of the time I'be used Kontact/Kmail.
[09:53] <jc-denton> ScottK: well i mean that
[09:53] <mhb> sahin_h: if you think KDE4 will be production-ready for you at its release or in Kubuntu 8.04, you can easily switch to it
[09:53] <jc-denton> nobody uses pop nowadays
[09:53] <jc-denton> and kolab uses imap for everything
[09:53] <ScottK> Then I guess I'm nobody.
[09:53] <mhb> sahin_h: we will provide fully functional KDE4 packages. They just won't be the default.
[09:54] <TheInfinity> jc-denton: lots of people use pop3 at home
[09:54] <jc-denton> yes my grandma
[09:54] <sahin_h> mhb: Ok. That's fine.
[09:54] <jc-denton> ;)
[09:54] <ScottK> Every time I've tried IMAP I've lost mail.  Doesn't matter what client I used.
[09:54] <mhb> sahin_h: but we will provide instructions on how to set KDE4 as default, so everyone can make the switch if they want
[09:54] <TheInfinity> but if you have an own server or a network in a company you have imap ;)
[09:54] <sahin_h> mhb: Even better!
[09:54] <ScottK> Well my company is the ideal size.  Employees == 1.
[09:54] <sahin_h> mhb: That's will be fine for me.
[09:55] <TheInfinity> ScottK: I just have an own server in net and make some web projects. and have imap mail ;)
[09:58] <jc-denton> ScottK: too bad for you, you need to do all the work yourself :D
[09:59] <jc-denton> just curious.. what kind of company is it, ScottK ?
[09:59] <ScottK> I mostly do consulting in system engineering and also some SMTP related stuff.
[10:00] <ScottK> And I'd rather do all the work myself than deal with trying to manage getting other people to do it for me.
[10:01] <jc-denton> system engineering == project management
[10:03] <jc-denton> maybe not == , but  like that?
[10:05] <ScottK> No more on the technical end of working out the details of how different complex system interact.
[10:06] <jc-denton> so you do coding? or sysadm related stuff?
[10:06] <ScottK> Group A designs syste AA and Group B designs system BB.  When in-service will AA and BB work together well and how to make it better.
[10:06] <ScottK> I do some coding, but mostly for prototype work.
[10:06] <ScottK> It's mostly design documentation.
[10:07] <jc-denton> ok
[10:07] <jc-denton> klauncher: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libQtDBus.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv
[10:07] <jc-denton> i did as written on the kubuntu page
[10:08] <jc-denton> also with the export
[10:08] <jc-denton> i want to try out klauncher now!! :(
[10:10] <mhb> jc-denton: do you mean krunner?
[10:11] <jc-denton> yes
[10:11] <mhb> jc-denton: well why don't you test it then?
[10:11] <jc-denton> humm
[10:11] <jc-denton> no program works
[10:11] <jc-denton> see above
[10:11] <mhb> jc-denton: not true, it works here (Gutsy, KDE4 beta)
[10:11] <jc-denton> well i have feisty
[10:12] <mhb> jc-denton: do you have KDE4 beta packages installed?
[10:12] <jc-denton> yes
[10:12] <jc-denton> but wait
[10:12] <jc-denton> kdelibs5 kdelibs5-dev
[10:12] <jc-denton> it could not install them
[10:13] <mhb> jc-denton: hmm, ask in #kubuntu support channel then
[10:13] <jc-denton> i did
[10:13] <jc-denton> they told me to ask here
[10:14] <mhb> jc-denton: actually, the new krunner launcher is no marvel in beta
[10:14] <mhb> jc-denton: I tried to run it from KDE3, it launches, but it can't really do anything useful
[10:15] <mhb> jc-denton: you can either launch a command if you write the exact comamnd or launch a konsole
[10:15] <jc-denton> humm
[10:16] <mhb> jc-denton: even KDE3's katapult can do more stuff at this point
[10:16] <jc-denton> http://rafb.net/p/WDjJbV29.html
[10:16] <jc-denton> katapult sucks
[10:16] <jc-denton> maybe we could hack up krunner
[10:17] <jc-denton> but i first have to get it running
[10:18] <mhb> jc-denton: I'm afraid I have no idea what the problem is.
[10:18] <jc-denton> hrmm
[10:18] <jc-denton> the instructions on the page looked so easy
[10:18] <jc-denton> did anybody try out the packaes on feisty actually?
[10:19] <ScottK> instructions on a page are often that way.  no sorry, not me.
[10:19] <mhb> jc-denton: yes, people did and it worked well for them
[10:19] <mhb> jc-denton: are you sure you have all the latest Feisty updates and that you didn't miss any step?
[10:20] <jc-denton> yes
[10:23] <jc-denton> ah wait
[10:23] <jc-denton> apt-get installs other stuff then aptitude
[10:23] <jc-denton> lol
[10:23] <jc-denton> first it did not work with apt-get now with aptitude
[10:23] <jc-denton> where is apt-work?
[10:27] <fdoving> Riddell: yes, you remember correctly, i have bluetooth.
[10:28] <jc-denton> now aptitude wants to remove all the things apt-get installed
[10:28] <jc-denton> looks completely broken to me
[10:29] <jc-denton> my other computer is still running edgy
[10:29] <jc-denton> i guess i cant install it there
[10:30] <nixternal> fdoving: I put the kdebluetooth package on my PPA, but it seems there is an issue with a libobex dep in the PPA
[10:30] <nixternal> jc-denton: katapult is far from "sucks"
[10:31] <jc-denton> nixternal: have you ever tried quicksilver?
[10:31] <fdoving> nixternal: PPA = personal package archive or something? (i'm like 1,5 weeks delayed in the online-world)
[10:31] <nixternal> what is quicksilver?
[10:31] <nixternal> fdoving: yes
[10:31] <fdoving> sounds like an apple-thing
[10:31] <fdoving> nixternal: from where did you get that kdebluetooth? url?
[10:31] <jc-denton> the thing katapult tries to be
[10:31] <nixternal> well seeing that I haven't used proprietary software since the 90s, that would be no
[10:32] <jc-denton> nixternal: do you have access to a mac?
[10:32] <jc-denton> if so try it out
[10:32] <jc-denton> if not search youtube
[10:32] <nixternal> fdoving: you just want my source files from the PPA so you can build it?
[10:32] <jc-denton> nixternal: quiksilver is what katapult tries to be
[10:32] <fdoving> nixternal: sure. that would be ok.
[10:32] <fdoving> nixternal: i'll go get my cell.. hang on.
[10:32] <jc-denton> eg you type ado, adobe or maybe just ad
[10:33] <jc-denton> then it shows you a list with the installed adobe software
[10:33] <jc-denton> and the first choice is the one you use most
[10:33] <nixternal> fdoving: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/nixternal/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kdebluetooth/kdebluetooth_1.0~beta6~r698638-0ubuntu1.dsc
[10:33] <jc-denton> you can also type adboe
[10:33] <jc-denton> and it will work
[10:33] <nixternal> that is cool
[10:33] <jc-denton> yes
[10:33] <nixternal> that would probably be a fairly easy hack for Katapult to do the same I am sure...just gotta bop Mez in the head when he is around
[10:34] <jc-denton> so compared to it katapult does not look that easy
[10:34] <jc-denton> in what language is it written
[10:34] <jc-denton> in what language is krunner written
[10:34] <nixternal> will quicksilver open OpenOffice.org Writer by doing ->    o w
[10:34] <jc-denton> krunner should come with these capabilities
[10:35] <jc-denton> http://youtube.com/watch?v=lIJKvt8fsrA
[10:35] <jc-denton> this here shows quicksilver
[10:35] <mhb> jc-denton: I think it will have those, but it doesn't have them yet
[10:35] <jc-denton> but u can't read the fonts on the screen, unfortunately
[10:36] <jc-denton> mhb: would be cool
[10:36] <jc-denton> and a plugin system
[10:37] <jc-denton> so you can connect your mp3-, video player, browser, office, google suggest, etc to it
[10:45] <fdoving> nixternal: sorry about the delay, kid woke up, (2nd. night in own bedroom). building.
[10:48] <nixternal> roger
[10:49] <ScottK> Do we really need to be installing NTFS stuff by default?  Urgh.
[10:50] <jc-denton> yes
[10:50] <ScottK> Why
[10:50] <jc-denton> and also flash and all proprietary codes imho
[10:50] <jc-denton> because it sucks if you have to install them manually
[10:50] <ScottK> NTFS is only useful for people who are dual booting.
[10:51] <ScottK> I think it's defeatist to assume people will use Windows.
[10:52] <fdoving> nixternal: installed, what steps did you make to trigger this error?
[10:52] <nixternal> ahh, that error was a build problem with the PPAs...I don't have bluetooth to test it, hence why Riddell called you out :)
[10:53] <fdoving> nixternal: it built nicely, installed too, but it doesn't work..
[10:53] <nixternal> lol
[10:54] <mhb> ScottK: if we could, we would assume people are having all of the OSes in their systems
[10:54] <mhb> ScottK: how is the presence of a driver problematic to you?
[10:55] <mhb> ScottK: I mean - you surely have a driver for HFS in your system and you dont mind much
[10:56] <ScottK> I suppose.
[10:57] <ScottK> I just think it's not right to assume that Windows compatibility is something everyone cares about.
[10:57] <ScottK> I don't view NTFS support as "a file system that some people use, but I don't
[10:57] <ScottK> I view it as "Windows compatibliity cruft that's not even potentially of use to me"
[10:58] <jc-denton> well maybe not everybody
[10:58] <jc-denton> but 90% at least
[10:58] <mhb> ScottK: I think we can gain more users when "the software/driver is there when you need it"
[10:58] <fdoving> it's nice when you sometimes need to help customers recover their NTFS-stored critical data.
[10:58] <ScottK> RIght.
[10:58] <fdoving> some magic with a livecd and usb-disks.
[10:59] <ScottK> I guess I'll sit down and quit whining.
[10:59] <jc-denton> lol
[11:00] <mhb> ScottK: well, come back whining when this issue is the highest priority unfixed bug in Launchpad :o)
[11:00] <ScottK> Sure.
[11:01] <mhb> ScottK: oh, and if you have time for whining, perhaps you also have time to set up distcc on a slow box and a fast box together and then use delta debugging to target the bug in python-kde3/konsole kpart
[11:01] <mhb> (joke :o)
[11:07] <nixternal> has anything been said about getting nspluginwrapper and oo.o working again in Gutsy? this is the longest lasting break I have ever seen
[11:08] <fdoving> nixternal: i investigated that issue a while back. (around 2 weeks ago). and it's unclear to me where exactly the problem is.
[11:09] <fdoving> i'm kind of waiting for the novell/suse guys to figure it out :)
[11:20] <nixternal> haha
[11:21] <Riddell> kwwii: do you still have that sample kubuntu banner from last year?
[11:21] <Riddell> kwwii: it might be needed for froscon if we can't get the poster stand out of glasgow
[11:21] <kwwii> Riddell: not sure...which one?
[11:21] <kwwii> ahh, you mean the small printed one
[11:21] <kwwii> yes, I have it
[11:21] <Riddell> kwwii: you said you had a sample one from akademy 2007
[11:21] <kwwii> let me know if I can send it to you
[11:22] <Riddell> kwwii: froscon is in germany, I have an address it can go to
[11:22] <kwwii> great, let me know and I can send it tomorrow
[11:23] <kwwii> within germany normal post arrives within two days
[11:23] <kwwii> if it is close, 1 day
[11:25] <kwwii> btw. perhaps we should discuss UDS invitation-invitations
[11:26] <Riddell> kwwii: I put the names I have on that wiki page jono made, with this new conference format thingy I've no idea how many people we're likely to be able to invite
[11:27] <kwwii> Riddell: well, as far as artwork goes I was unsure who to invite, so I thought it might help if I invited some people as well
[11:28] <Riddell> sure
[11:28] <Riddell> but if you're unsure who to invite, who would you invite?
[11:28] <kwwii> ruphy and kevin
[11:29] <Riddell> kevin ottens?
[11:29] <kwwii> point being, if you have ideas let me know
[11:29] <Riddell> who's that other oxygen guy that has been doing tidying up?
[11:29] <Riddell> David Jonathon Miller
[11:30] <kwwii> I talked to him - he said he can't come
[11:30] <Riddell> ok
[11:32] <Riddell> well artwork people is something we're lacking so ruphy sure, kevin I always love to have around but he's been before and you'd need to have a reason
[11:36] <kwwii> right...I'll do what I can and see how it works out
[11:37] <Riddell> add them to the wiki page, always worth a shot
[11:54] <Riddell> kwwii: e-mailed about the poster with you in CC
[11:55] <kwwii> Riddell: received it...one thing to note is that the banner I have is horizontal in layout
[11:55] <kwwii> actually, I was not that far from nevesfelde on Sunday
[11:55] <Riddell> I believe they have a room rather than just a stand, there will be somewhere to put it as long as they bring string
[11:56] <kwwii> I can put a bit of string in with the banner, just in case
[11:57] <Riddell> :)
[11:58] <nixternal> g'nite sir