[01:26] <LDS_Trooper> Hello. How can I submit artwork for consideration?
[01:28] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: There isn't really a way, but I believe there is a Gutsy page up for wallpapers on the wiki.  Your best bet is to talk with kwwii.
[01:28] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Do you have a link to your work?
[01:29] <LDS_Trooper> Troy not yet.. well nothing I would be submitting
[01:29] <kwwii> LDS_Trooper: sorry, I appear to have missed out on your stuff
[01:29] <kwwii> hi troy_s
[01:30] <LDS_Trooper> kwwii, not really.. just got here.
[01:30] <troy_s> greets kwwii
[01:30] <kwwii> joined late, spent the day at the museum with my son
[01:30] <LDS_Trooper> A friend and I are thinking of submitting work to Ubuntu
[01:30] <LDS_Trooper> maybe 4 desktops each
[01:30] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: It is rather hard to have any sort of idea on anything until you have work to show.
[01:30] <kwwii> LDS_Trooper: cool, if you are interested there is quite a bit to do
[01:30] <LDS_Trooper> would love to offer work where needed
[01:31] <kwwii> the best way to get stuff up is to simply post it on the wiki and the mailinglist
[01:31] <LDS_Trooper> when my buddy gets back online I will have him join the channel
[01:31] <LDS_Trooper> I see
[01:31] <LDS_Trooper> what style are you looking at?
[01:32] <LDS_Trooper> I did this in Inkscape:   http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/LDS_Trooper/Vector/dg_phone-2.png
[01:33] <kwwii> killer, that looks pretty good for an icon
[01:33] <kwwii> check out the human stuff in ubuntu
[01:33] <LDS_Trooper> Its a bit large for an Icon tho
[01:33] <kwwii> at this time things are still somewhat in motion (cough)
[01:34] <LDS_Trooper> sounds like good timing
[01:34] <LDS_Trooper> =)
[01:34] <kwwii> sorry to say, but you caught me at a bad time actually...it's 1:34am here - time for sleep :p
[01:35] <LDS_Trooper> no worries
[01:35] <LDS_Trooper> which timezone are you in?
[01:35] <troy_s> kwwii: Before you are off, have you any further push from Mark on anything?
[01:35] <kwwii> I live in germany
[01:35] <kwwii> so cet+1 or utc+2 at this time of the summer
[01:35] <LDS_Trooper> 8 hours ahead of us
[01:36] <kwwii> troy_s: I showed Mark a few of the ideas I had and we discussed a few things. I'll post some stuff toon
[01:36] <kwwii> erm
[01:36] <kwwii> soon
[01:36] <troy_s> kwwii: Good to hear.
[01:36] <LDS_Trooper> how can we join the mailing list?
[01:36] <kwwii> I tried to play my cards and do some really wierd stuff and see how he reacts
[01:36] <kwwii> it went better than I thought it would :-)
[01:37] <troy_s> kwwii: You are going to have to if the art and design of any of the ubuntus is going to escape this mediocre uber-conservativism.
[01:37] <kwwii> LDS_Trooper: erm, some crazy mailman interface I guess
[01:37] <kwwii> dude, you are asking hard questions after a long day and a couple of beers
[01:37] <LDS_Trooper> lol us Canadians can do that
[01:42] <kwwii> troy_s: we have a long way to go, but I think things just might be really getting better
[01:43] <troy_s> kwwii:  I really hope so.  The bottom line is that in order to achieve ANY degree of innovative design, he is going to need to do a couple of things
[01:43] <troy_s> 1) let risks be taken
[01:43] <troy_s> 2) ignore what the other two big boys are doing.
[01:43] <troy_s> 3) ignore complaints.
[01:43] <LDS_Trooper> which big boys? Win and Mac?
[01:43] <troy_s> (as if you read all of the rubbish about the new leopard wallpaper decisions you can see how utterly useless it is to bother with worrying about bent noses)
[01:44] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: yes.
[01:44] <kwwii> troy_s: agreed, it means taking a big step back and trusting in things, to some degree
[01:44] <troy_s> kwwii: Absolutely.
[01:45] <troy_s> kwwii: The reality is that if we are going to do ANYTHING bloody innovative that makes the mainstreams go 'hey I want _that_' he is going to need to let creativity and innovation cleave into the mix.
[01:45] <troy_s> and that means the reality of the shock of 'newness'
[01:46] <LDS_Trooper> Troy what ideas do you have for the look?
[01:46] <kwwii> yepp, and in the meantime we need to step up and keep in time, after which perhaps we can lead things again
[01:46] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: God... I don't know.  When I do things for myself I tend to clearly identify an audience and a communication goal.
[01:47] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: You can see a little smattering of some stuff on my blog if it is at all of interest to you.
[01:47] <kwwii> the audience is clear: everyone who uses a computer
[01:47] <troy_s> LOL
[01:47] <LDS_Trooper> sure.. link?
[01:47] <troy_s> yeah -- that's what he is aiming for and it is recipe for tepid, mediocre and horrible design.
[01:47] <troy_s> the bottom line is that he needs to clearly identify the audience and stick to it.
[01:49] <troy_s> kwwii: It is the very reason that the Vista / Mac wallpapers are more evocative -- they sacrifice the patented linux user 'i want it to be functional with all icons in all situations' for some communication.
[01:49] <kwwii> not necessarily, I think that knowing that the core audience is perhaps younger or "different" thinking old-folks who tend to code a lot and try to make things fit for "most everyone" you'll reach the goal we are looking for
[01:49] <troy_s> kwwii: Is and _want_ to be are two different things.
[01:50] <kwwii> troy_s: I think the wallpaper argument is totally right - and there is no reason for it at all - full ack
[01:50] <troy_s> kwwii: The younger audience of hackers isn't going to do Ubuntu any good -- they are already there and not really that important.
[01:50] <kwwii> is and want are two different steps to a goal, as I see it
[01:50] <troy_s> kwwii: If he were smart, he would select a mature audience that has the clout to make serious changes in their workplaces -- the power and agency to get ubuntu into places that matter.
[01:51] <troy_s> kwwii: Start with their home desktops and build from there.
[01:51] <troy_s> kwwii: Of course, having the 'cool' folks using it (the higher visibility artists / musicians / writers / etc) never hurts -- a very niche that Apple targets relentlessly by providing free computers to and paying big cash to get front place in movies and television.
[01:51] <LDS_Trooper> kwwii, I'm 35 and switched to Ubuntu because I am fed up with windows
[01:52] <kwwii> and how do you suggest, with the artwork that has been supplied for the last year to accomplish that goal?
[01:52] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Good to have mature folks.
[01:52] <LDS_Trooper> how does that fit into the "audience" well.. I'm not alone
[01:52] <kwwii> LDS_Trooper: I am 36, no worries
[01:52] <troy_s> kwwii: Well _all_ the artwork is rather irrelevant if we don't have Mark get behind having a clearly defined audience and a clearly defined goal for design.
[01:52] <troy_s> kwwii: For example, look at the copy on Apple's website.
[01:52] <kwwii> I always think that when I say "I went with my family to..." people think I went with my father and mother
[01:53] <troy_s> kwwii: It is always riddled with colloquialisms and like bits -- the entire package is aimed at a very clear audience (mac vs pc advertisments also drive in that direction obviously)
[01:53] <kwwii> troy_s: I promise you that if we had people step up now and contribute decent artwork that it would be included in some form
[01:53] <troy_s> kwwii: Well I can only offer my theme I am afraid.  And even then, it has had to backseat to fluxbuntu and now potentially mythbuntu.
[01:54] <troy_s> kwwii: But if it can get included to offer a little variation through the GDM/Wallpaper, that is terrific.
[01:54] <LDS_Trooper> mythubuntu?
[01:54] <troy_s> kwwii: Unfortunately you are put in the rather awkward spot of both accepting work and filtering work that is sub par in your eyes.  That is damn difficult.
[01:55] <troy_s> kwwii: As rejecting work tends to bite into the generation of work.  Vicious cycle.
[01:55] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Sort of an appliance disk -- pop disk in and run mythtv.
[01:55] <LDS_Trooper> thanks
[01:56] <kwwii> troy_s: the problem is not discouraging people that might turn around and turn out to be amazing
[01:56] <kwwii> I have met people, and included them in projects in which I thought they would never make it and after a few weeks they blew me away
[01:57] <troy_s> kwwii: Exactly.  A critical mistake that Mark made early going.
[01:57] <troy_s> kwwii: Everyone needs to learn and grow, and sometimes the first kick at the can might suck.  The reality is that _nothing_ will happen if that isn't fostered.
[01:57] <kwwii> I think that him hiring me to do all this shows that he knows it was a bad situation
[01:58] <troy_s> kwwii: He also suffers from 'once bitten' syndrome.
[01:58] <kwwii> you do not pay the kde guy to do gnome artwork unless you think that there is something behind it all
[01:58] <troy_s> kwwii: The photos he originally wanted in for that earlier release left such a bad taste in his mouth that he refuses to budge on certain things.
[01:59] <kwwii> funny enough, I am not the "kde guy" that he thinks or thought I am no do I have a problem making artwork for Gnome :-)
[02:00] <kwwii> I think he realized that he cannot do whatever he thinks is right and therefor has to be really careful
[02:00] <kwwii> that meant taking total control, unfortunately, and now I think things have changed a bit
[02:00] <troy_s> kwwii: I would prefer him to do whatever the hell he wants, just make a clear statement doing it.
[02:00] <kwwii> at least, I would like to think that he has some trust in me
[02:02] <kwwii> I know that I am trying to change things for the better, in some ways more like they used to be before this whole thing started
[02:02] <kwwii> and with that, I am going to bed
[02:02] <kwwii> :p
[02:02] <troy_s> kwwii: It is nothing more than a whirlpool.
[02:02] <troy_s> kwwii: Night.
[02:02] <troy_s> kwwii: It hasn't changed yet.  Hopefully it will.
[02:02] <kwwii> no, nothing has changed yet as far as others can see, you are right in that
[02:03] <troy_s> kwwii: Although again, I have always said that the earlier wallpapers were more evocative than the latters by a long shot.
[02:03] <kwwii> definitely
[02:03] <troy_s> kwwii: That said, they were horribly horribly monochromatic etc.
[02:03] <troy_s> kwwii: Again returning to the keystones of basic design -- audience / communication and build upwards to palette etc.
[02:03] <LDS_Trooper> Good to meet you kwwii
[02:03] <kwwii> the biggest problem is that nothing happens overnight, without a miracle
[02:03] <troy_s> kwwii: A lot can happen in a very short while.
[02:03] <troy_s> kwwii: I think many have proved that.
[02:03] <troy_s> _very_ short.
[02:03] <kwwii> LDS_Trooper: nice to meet you too, see you soon, I hope
[02:03] <troy_s> go get some sleep
[02:04] <LDS_Trooper> for sure
[02:04] <kwwii> troy_s: lol, yeah
[02:04] <kwwii> night guys
[02:04] <LDS_Trooper> night
[02:04] <LDS_Trooper> troy_s, do you have a link to your blog?
[02:05] <troy_s> erk
[02:07] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: you are canadian?
[02:08] <LDS_Trooper> I am
[02:08] <LDS_Trooper> In Alberta
[02:09] <troy_s> good stuffs
[02:09] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Vancouver here.
[02:09] <troy_s> (burbs thereof)
[02:09] <LDS_Trooper> Neighbours
[02:10] <LDS_Trooper> I spent about 6 months in New Westminster
[02:10] <LDS_Trooper> back in 1990 tho
[02:12] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Good stuffs.
[02:13] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: You should get some work up.
[02:14] <LDS_Trooper> will do
[02:14] <LDS_Trooper> what areas are needed?
[02:14] <LDS_Trooper> wallies? Icons? what?
[02:14] <LDS_Trooper> I'm not certain on  how to make a theme just yet.. but I want to learn
[02:15] <LDS_Trooper> I must say I wasn't impressed with the mac styled desk that came with Fiesty
[02:18] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: I think your best opportunity is to either join a community effort or do your own work to illustrate what you can do.
[02:18] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Almost all of ubuntu is rather locked in (aside from a potential wallpaper, but that is close to throwing darts at a board as to whether or not you can make progress on one)
[02:21] <LDS_Trooper> how do you mean "locked in"
[02:32] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Long story.  Basically anything that gets done comes from up high
[02:33] <LDS_Trooper> I have no understanding of the ubuntu political structure
[02:35] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: There is much political structure.
[02:36] <LDS_Trooper> hmm I guess some is needed..
[02:36] <LDS_Trooper> but it can get in the way
[02:36] <LDS_Trooper> who is Mark you were talking about?
[02:36] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Not much of caring nor attention to the art / design aspect.  Effective design rather needs that centralized push from a knowledgeable source.  Unfortunately, the centralized push is not from an ideal perspective in my opinion (solely mine of course).
[02:37] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Shuttleworth.  Brilliant guy.  Just not great on art / design.
[02:37] <LDS_Trooper> I see
[02:37] <LDS_Trooper> and what about the guy who made Ubuntu... how active is he?
[02:37] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: LOL
[02:37] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: That's him :)
[02:38] <LDS_Trooper> uhh oops
[02:38] <LDS_Trooper> =)
[02:38] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Of course, one of the central problems is that art and design issues tend to bring out experts from every closet niche in the galaxy -- regardless of their background, experience, or education.
[02:38] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: The bikeshed is huge.
[02:39] <LDS_Trooper> bikeshed?
[02:39] <LDS_Trooper> sorry I am doing a couple things at once.
[02:40] <LDS_Trooper> One issue I have with Ubuntu in general is "not knowing"
[02:40] <LDS_Trooper> meaning.. Ubuntu out of the box has little for compiling of packages.
[02:40] <LDS_Trooper> and no indication of what you need.
[02:40] <LDS_Trooper> should come with I think...
[02:42] <troy_s> wiki bikeshed :)
[02:43] <LDS_Trooper> I could be wrong.. but when someone comes to Ubuntu... they "look" at it first
[02:43] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Well that is beyond the scope of art and design really -- unless you abstract design to a higher level.
[02:43] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Absolutely.
[02:43] <LDS_Trooper> if it looks bad they dismiss it.
[02:43] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Well that's part of the problem, people throw around words like 'professional' 'bad' 'ugly' without having a clue as to the fact that those are relative terms.
[02:43] <LDS_Trooper> Troy not when you consider the compiling of Gimp plug ins
[02:43] <LDS_Trooper> =)
[02:44] <LDS_Trooper> very relative
[02:45] <LDS_Trooper> one thing I find attractive in Linux.. is how customizable it is.
[02:45] <LDS_Trooper> If I get bored of a theme.. I can change it
[02:46] <LDS_Trooper> and more than just the desktop or three color options
[02:47] <LDS_Trooper> Would it be too much for ubuntu to offer two themes? One main and one secondary?
[02:47] <LDS_Trooper> The secondary would be almost a polar opposite. So if they continue in the earth tones, the secondary could  be icy
[02:58] <troy_s> sorry LDS_Trooper was eating
[02:58] <troy_s> backreading
[02:59] <troy_s> well i would be happy if we could get one unified bit of effort in the earthy range with a _proper_ palette, a motif, etc.
[02:59] <troy_s> something that has style.
[02:59] <troy_s> as opposed to a great tremendous vacuum of style.
[03:00] <LDS_Trooper> INDEED
[03:00] <LDS_Trooper> sorry for caps
[03:00] <LDS_Trooper> Indeed that would make the effort more efficient
[03:01] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: The problem is, again, the top.
[03:01] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: There have been numerous attempts to integrate certain elements -- unfortunately there are many issues.
[03:01] <LDS_Trooper> I see
[03:02] <troy_s> For one, we start out with the ability factor -- sometimes someone might have a good idea but a lack of execution.  Inevitably, this yields 'throw out baby with bathwater as we have tried that and it sucked' etc.
[03:02] <troy_s> Two, people's knowledge of a 'palette' are extremely limited.
[03:02] <troy_s> Three, people's knowledge of aesthetics is extremely limited.  There are many people who firmly believe in such bunk concepts as 'color psychology' and a firmly locked belief in composition etc.
[03:03] <LDS_Trooper> well one issue which I saw here today is that of "Personal Taste"
[03:03] <troy_s> not realizing that _everything_ is entirely contextual -- culturally, temporally (era), etc.
[03:03] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: ?
[03:03] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper:  You would need to explain yourself a bit on that one.  Lost me.
[03:04] <LDS_Trooper> Well you clearly have a level of understanding and personal level of acceptance
[03:04] <LDS_Trooper> as do others.
[03:04] <LDS_Trooper> So what you feel is amazing to another just isn't and that can spawn frustrations
[03:05] <LDS_Trooper> especially when the other person is in a position to make decisions
[03:06] <LDS_Trooper> Does that make sense?
[03:07] <troy_s> of course.
[03:07] <troy_s> that is called the relative nature of all things
[03:07] <troy_s> but in reality, having done many many creative projects and such
[03:07] <troy_s> once you actually start down the path of execution, that sense of 'wow' quickly goes out the door for the 'god i hate this'
[03:08] <troy_s> Personally, 'amazing' is the perfect combination of a clearly stated goal with a clearly stated audience and the presentation that meets both objectives.
[03:08] <LDS_Trooper> yes
[03:09] <troy_s> I have a great deal of respect for an artistic design decision that does that -- even if the basic aesthetic isn't terribly stimulating to me.
[03:09] <LDS_Trooper> I found the same in Broadcasting and editing...
[03:10] <LDS_Trooper> making a music video means you will probably hate the song quickly. But with a clear understanding of audience and communication (or focus) you can get some "wow" from the intended crowd
[03:11] <troy_s> Well you can try.
[03:11] <troy_s> That's about it.
[03:12] <troy_s> We have won a few muchmusic awards etc for music videos and sometimes the accidents are as powerful as the planned executions.
[03:12] <LDS_Trooper> So where would you take Ubuntu visually?
[03:12] <troy_s> My personal preference is to start with what is already innately there.  Ubuntu is about community, it is about growth, it is about freedom.
[03:12] <troy_s> To hammer that point home, it is also probably wise to be counter-culture.
[03:13] <troy_s> So if you sum up the broad sweeping 'mainstream' operating systems as plastic shiny, Ubuntu naturally should be organic.
[03:13] <troy_s> Not exactly groundbreaking in terms of thinking :)
[03:14] <LDS_Trooper> but good to define
[03:14] <LDS_Trooper> I think its in the example ogg
[03:15] <LDS_Trooper> but I believe Mandela says something to the effect of
[03:15] <LDS_Trooper> "Ubuntu as a concept has many layers"
[03:15] <LDS_Trooper> If so.. why follow the commercial guys?
[03:16] <troy_s> Uh perhaps you misread me.
[03:16] <LDS_Trooper> perhaps
 To hammer that point home, it is also probably wise to be counter-culture.
[03:16] <LDS_Trooper> what is your definition of counter-culture?
[03:16] <troy_s> Where Apple and MS are plastic (and possibly exploitable with their connection to plastic ideals / beliefs etc. from a marketing vantage)
[03:16] <LDS_Trooper> I ask because you are dealing with a global culture
[03:16] <troy_s> Ubuntu should be organic.
[03:17] <troy_s> There is _no_ such creature as global culture
[03:17] <troy_s> there are _NO_ cross cultural motifs etc.  Nothing.
[03:17] <troy_s> its a myth
[03:17] <troy_s> in fact, the topic has just such a link to it.
[03:17] <troy_s> if you want _real_ research, I encourage you to read
[03:18] <troy_s> "Influence of Culture on Visual Perception" Segall, Campbell, Herskovits
[03:18] <troy_s> Or take any 'art in context 101' course ;)
[03:18] <LDS_Trooper> sure thanks
[03:19] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Unfortunately, those types of 'myths' become fact when you are dealing with a group of extremely vocal people with little study in art / design.
[03:20] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: and arguably, are the root of the problem that you are probably seeing.
[03:20] <LDS_Trooper> Well perhaps I made a mistake then.
[03:21] <LDS_Trooper> when you say "counter-culture" often the imagery of Hippy drugs come to mind.. but to the hippy it would be "government"
[03:22] <troy_s> avant garde
[03:22] <troy_s> take the now and throw it away
[03:22] <troy_s> move to the next.
[03:22] <troy_s> that's all.  Relatively simple.
[03:22] <LDS_Trooper> Well pehaps I should go then.
[03:22] <troy_s> but yes... by 'counter-culture' i was specifically meaning to distance oneself from the 'culture' of computing as the mainstream audience sees it -- Apple and MS (perhaps governments of their own, eh?)
[03:23] <troy_s> Not at all.
[03:23] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Everyone is welcome here.  And ideas are about all we got.  :)
[03:23] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Where would you like to drive ubuntu?
[03:23] <LDS_Trooper> But I did not come to get into a discussion on Design fanatics
[03:24] <LDS_Trooper> The reality is that when someone is introduced to Ubuntu they look for similarity from their native OS.. win or mac
[03:24] <LDS_Trooper> "But windows did this"
[03:24] <LDS_Trooper> that's for the programmers
[03:25] <LDS_Trooper> For the arts.. one must realize that Win and Mac have been copying the Linux crowd for years
[03:26] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Hrm... I think Mac doesn't bother to look outside of itself at all when it comes to computing.  Their designers are well educated and know enough about looking to externals such as architecture, pop culture, etc.
 The reality is that when someone is introduced to Ubuntu they look for similarity from their native OS
[03:27] <troy_s> I would suggest that a good percentage of those that are drawn to Ubuntu choose Ubuntu because it is _different_.
[03:28] <LDS_Trooper> Indeed
[03:28] <LDS_Trooper> users like myself are simply fed up with Windows and their "BS"
[03:30] <troy_s> completely.
[03:30] <troy_s> and slowly the world is being exposed to the more ethical approach of free software, which is a positive.
[03:31] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: But you still haven't said where you would drive Ubuntu if you were in charge :)
[03:32] <LDS_Trooper> Visually I would go in a similar direction as it is now.. but in a more focused manner
[03:32] <LDS_Trooper> I like the organic feel
[03:32] <troy_s> Hrm... what component do you think feels organic?
[03:33] <LDS_Trooper> the visuals
[03:33] <LDS_Trooper> the colors
[03:34] <troy_s> Hrm... there is one colour.  So you connect the brown to organic which is a positive.
[03:34] <troy_s> I would agree, I think the brown base tone is a wise avenue.  (Wiser if it had supporting players, but that is another story)
[03:35] <LDS_Trooper> but then you have users out there wondering when Ubuntu will get out of the brown/orange mix
[03:36] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: And your thoughts?
[03:36] <LDS_Trooper> Well I would offer two opposing themes on the same focus..
[03:37] <LDS_Trooper> one would be organic/earthy the other.. well Icy and cool blues..
[03:37] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Does that tackle the fact that when Ubuntu is displayed it is displayed with default wallpaper?
[03:37] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: And the last thing that Ubuntu needs in my opinion is YABW.
[03:37] <troy_s> http://shots.osdir.com/
[03:37] <troy_s> all the blue you want.
[03:37] <LDS_Trooper> lol
[03:38] <LDS_Trooper> this what I am getting at...
[03:38] <LDS_Trooper> Ubuntu could come ahead by informing its users
[03:38] <troy_s> of?
[03:39] <LDS_Trooper> well options
[03:39] <LDS_Trooper> how to customize.. what's out there.. where to get it
[03:40] <LDS_Trooper> anywho.. I do need to run.
[03:40] <LDS_Trooper> when are you on mostly?
[03:40] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Good chat... idle on here when you can.
[03:40] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: During the week I tend to work about 14+ hours per day, so once per evening at around 930 or so Pacific.
[03:41] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Weekends more.
[03:41] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: Drop me some email, I'd love to hear your thoughts etc...
[03:41] <LDS_Trooper> Sounds good
[03:41] <LDS_Trooper> we are an hour apart no?
[03:41] <LDS_Trooper> 19:40 hear
[03:41] <troy_s> LDS_Trooper: I am always interested in collaborating with people who are dedicated.
[03:41] <troy_s> Yeah I think alberta is 1 hour...
[03:41] <troy_s> Time now for you?  641 here.
[03:42] <troy_s> 741 there?
[03:42] <LDS_Trooper> yes 19:41
[03:42] <LDS_Trooper> sorry I use miliary time
[03:42] <troy_s> erk yeah
[03:42] <troy_s> probably better :)
[03:42] <troy_s> so one hour.
[03:42] <LDS_Trooper> see you tomorrow evening sometime
[03:42] <troy_s> OK ... well send me some email my friend.
[03:42] <troy_s> Yeah... take care.
[03:43] <LDS_Trooper> maybe we can get passed some of this and actually look at some work
[03:44] <troy_s> Absolutely...
[03:44] <LDS_Trooper> later
[12:44] <Darth_Gimp> kwwii, you there?
[12:47] <kwwii> hehe, give me a chance
[05:41] <Instabin|work> could someone fix my submition https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu/BlubuntuWallpaper
[05:41] <Instabin|work> its at the bottom
[06:06] <Instabin|work> Never mind i figured it out
[06:12] <LDS_Trooper> greets
[09:18] <lapo> hi
[10:10] <Instabin|work> take a look at the wall paper I made and let me know what you think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu/BlubuntuWallpaper