[08:54] <_StefanS_> mornings
[08:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: Morning.. how do you want those updates for kdelibs? I'm not sure if a diff can be done for additions to the source (?)
[10:06] <\sh> Riddell,  btw...I'm still working on amarok...my buildserver just died yesterday evening because of more important private issues :)
[10:06] <\sh> but you get a debdiff this afternoon I think
[11:15] <Riddell> _StefanS_: well it needs to be done along with the other kde modules
[11:24] <\sh> Riddell, got my query?
[11:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well, you're right.. networkstatus needs to be taken out of kdepim. I guess networkstatus is on the kded services you can start/stop using the services module in kcontrol (?)
[11:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I suggest to throw the package into backports this very night, I will release around 6am UTC
[11:28] <Riddell> \sh: yes, thanks
[11:28] <Riddell> \sh: do you have .debs too?
[11:28] <\sh> Riddell, binaries?
[11:28] <Riddell> yes
[11:28] <\sh> sure one moment :)
[11:29] <Riddell> _StefanS_: there's branches of kdebase, kdepim and kdenetwork, I'm not honestly sure what they do so they all need to be tested to see if using the branch does something useful for us
[11:31] <\sh> Riddell, see query
[11:31] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well.. if you know what we should test in order to determine the value of those packages, I can do it.
[11:32] <Riddell> _StefanS_: well test kmail and konqueror and kopete when network manager is disconnected from the network and see if they do something more friendly than just "can't load"
[11:32] <_StefanS_> Riddell: just not sure if we need kdebase, kdepim and kdenetwork as well to determine it as a whole
[11:32] <_StefanS_> alright.
[11:34] <_StefanS_> brb
[12:42] <Lure> hi Riddell, \sh
[12:42] <Lure> apachelogger: congrats on membership
[12:43] <\sh> hey Lure
[12:43] <Lure> Riddell: is anybody working on knetworkmanager 0.2 update (now that ut was released)?
[12:44] <apachelogger> Lure: hehe, thx :)
[12:44] <Riddell> ut?
[12:45] <Lure> apachelogger: you shoud go for motu now
[12:45] <Lure> Riddell: our version is 0.2-rc, so it should be only small update
[12:45] <apachelogger> Lure: yeah sometime after gutsy freeze
[12:45] <Riddell> what is ut?
[12:46] <Lure> Riddell: s/ut/it/
[12:46] <Lure> ;-)
[12:46] <Riddell> Lure: right, tonio normally would do that but he's away on holiday, so if you fancy doing it before UVF (tomorrow) that would be very welcome
[12:47] <Lure> Riddell: yep, I have asked due to UVF - ok, will look into it doay
[12:47] <Lure> today even ;-)
[12:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: amarok 1.5.7 has a new systray icon?
[12:50] <apachelogger> 1.4.7
[12:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes
[12:50] <mhb> hi folks
[12:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: it's featuring less details and a bigger border
[12:51] <mhb> Riddell: I have sent a mail to kubuntu-devel about the current wallpaper and I added the current one as attachement, which resulted in the mail being on moderation. Have you noticed it/should I send a new one?
[12:51] <Riddell> mhb: I havn't noticed it, but if you could send one with a URL rather than an attachement that would be preferred
[12:52] <mhb> Riddell: okay, I wil
[12:52] <mhb> will
[02:13] <\sh> Riddell, what was the problem with adept and showing the maintainer of the package in the description? you said something yesterday
[02:13] <Riddell> \sh: current adept_manager shows maintainers where it should show descriptions.  probably one of the more recent patches broke something
[02:13] <Riddell> those colums are quite fragile
[02:16] <\sh> Riddell, hmm...in which view it shows the maintainer instead of the description? because here on up2date gutsy it's correct
[02:17] <Riddell> in adept_manager
[02:18] <Riddell> does for me anyway
[02:18] <\sh> Riddell, yes...do you have a screenshot?
[02:19] <Riddell> 
[02:19] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/adept-foo.png
[02:19] <Riddell> manchicken had the same problem
[02:22] <\sh> hmm...for me it doesn't show the maintainer at all in this list...
[02:22] <\sh> even when I check the checkbox "maintainer" in the first line next to the search box
[02:23] <\sh> any bug report how they achieved this output??...
[02:24] <Riddell> doesn't need anything doing, it just dow
[02:24] <Riddell> does
[02:24] <Riddell> what version of adept_manager do you have installed?
[02:24] <\sh> 2.1 cruiser...the one from gutsy
[02:27] <Riddell> 2.1.3ubuntu11 ?
[02:27] <\sh> 2.1.3ubuntu11
[02:27] <\sh> shermann@LT420:~$ dpkg -l|grep adept
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept                                     2.1.3ubuntu11                package management suite for KDE
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept-batch                               2.1.3ubuntu11                command line install for Adept
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept-common                              2.1.3ubuntu11                package manager for KDE -- common files
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept-installer                           2.1.3ubuntu11                simple user interface for application manage
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept-manager                             2.1.3ubuntu11                package manager for KDE
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept-notifier                            2.1.3ubuntu11                system tray notifier of available system upd
[02:27] <\sh> ii  adept-updater                             2.1.3ubuntu11                system update tool for KDE
[02:28] <Riddell> ok ok, I believe you :)
[02:29] <\sh> so something is wrong but not adept ;) broken cache files e.g.?
[02:30] <Riddell> unlikely
[02:30] <Riddell> however I can't recreate the problem on my laptop
[02:30] <Riddell> so, dunno, a mystery
[02:31] <\sh> but...the maintainer isn't shown at all, when I check the maintainer checkbox in adept_manager...so this is a bug ;)
[02:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Are you archive admin today?
[02:46] <Riddell> ScottK: nobody is, but I'm happy to take individual requests if there's a need
[02:46] <ScottK> OK.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zekr got published in Universe, but it's got a Mulitverse dependency.  It's in dep wait and needs to be moved to Multiverse.
[02:47] <Riddell> doh, I thought I'd checked that it only needed universe
[02:47] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/velocity is the one.
[03:08] <manchicken> The new kvpnc was a bit more annoying to set up, but it definitely seems to work better than the last version.
[03:08] <Riddell> new in which sense?
[03:09] <manchicken> Riddell: It seems to have features that I haven't seen before...
[03:09] <manchicken> I suppose I don't know for sure if it was updated or not.
[03:09] <manchicken> Maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly :)
[03:23] <Jusic> is there anywhere a offical high qualitiy kubuntu logo download?
[03:24] <stdin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
[03:25] <Riddell> use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuArtwork
[03:26] <Riddell> Jusic: what's it for?
[03:26] <Jusic> avatars userbars usw
[03:26] <manchicken> The kubuntu KDE splash screen is a bit off center for widescreen.
[03:26] <Jusic> mabye i will make a desktop background
[03:26] <manchicken> It sits off to the lower-right.
[03:27] <Riddell> manchicken: it's off centre for everyone, patches welcome
[03:27] <manchicken> Ah.
[03:27] <manchicken> If only I knew how to do that sort of thing :(
[03:27] <Riddell> manchicken: it's because the new centre image is a larger size
[03:27] <manchicken> Ah.
[03:27] <manchicken> That it is.
[03:27] <Riddell> look at the ksplash-moodin source and edit the numbers to fit the new size
[03:27] <manchicken> It looks fantastic... just a bit off center.  Although that is an interesting look.
[03:28] <manchicken> It should have a random position every time.  heh
[03:28] <_StefanS_> Riddell: just tested the networkstatus.. knetworkmanager doesnt like kdepim libraries that are not there
[03:29] <_StefanS_> Riddell: on/offline seems to work fine with localhost despite no network cable was present
[03:29] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I think that was one of the issues
[03:37] <Riddell> 13:36:51 INFO    Override Component to: 'multiverse'
[03:37] <Riddell> 13:36:51 INFO    'zekr/multiverse/x11' source overridden
[03:37] <Riddell> 13:36:51 INFO    Commiting transaction, changes will be visible after next publisher run.
[03:37] <Riddell> ScottK: ^^
[03:37] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[03:48] <manchicken> Riddell: I'll try to look into the maintainer string showing up in the description issue in Adept today.
[03:53] <Riddell> manchicken: I still get the problem on my desktop but not on my (i386) laptop, and \sh doesn't get the problem
[03:53] <manchicken> Riddell: That's interesting.
[03:53] <manchicken> I do get the problem.
[03:54] <manchicken> Are you sure that you and \sh are running the same version?
[03:59] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm on amd64 and I get the problem.
[04:00] <manchicken> That would be freaky if somehow the same codebase had different behavior...
[04:00] <manchicken> Are the executables the same?
[04:04] <Riddell> I'm using 2.1.3ubuntu11 on both my laptop and desktop
[04:04] <Riddell> laptop fine, desktop broke
[04:04] <Riddell> could it be an amd64 issue?  I can't see how
[04:04] <manchicken> I don't see how either.
[04:05] <manchicken> We're not using any types that aren't commonly used all over the place...
[04:05] <manchicken> I suppose the md5 wouldn't match since you've got an arch difference.
[04:05] <manchicken> I am getting the same issue on amd64, so I know it's not the arch.
[04:05] <manchicken> that leads me to believe that it's a dependency.
[04:06] <manchicken> Do you have the same version of libapt-front?
[04:08] <Riddell> apt-front is a built time thing only
[04:08] <Riddell> you'd need to check the build logs
[04:09] <nosredna_ekim> is there a problem with a package with AMD64?I have that installed here...
[04:10] <\sh> manchicken, libapt-front-dev is from libapt-front which is just a build-deb...it's not actively installed on production systems...so it should use the same libapt-inst or libapt-pkg lib at all
[04:10] <manchicken> Ah.
[04:11] <manchicken> Okay.
[04:11] <manchicken> I'm gonna try building from jr's bzr repo.
[04:11] <manchicken> I'll see what it has in there.
[04:12] <Riddell> nosredna_ekim: try the lastest adept-manager, does it show descriptions or maintainers in the description column?
[04:12] <nosredna_ekim> in the package lists you mean?
[04:12] <Riddell> yes
[04:13] <nosredna_ekim> i'll check.
[04:13] <nosredna_ekim> Oh, whoops... forgot I was in fiesty :) sorry.
[04:15] <\sh> manchicken, you are using a development snapshot? could be that there is an error in it? ;)
[04:15] <manchicken> I'm using the latest gutsy version
[04:16] <manchicken> 2.1.3ubuntu11
[04:17] <\sh> manchicken, me too :)
[04:17] <\sh> manchicken, could you check if your package cache files are correct from apt-get, not that they are corrupted somehow...I got sometimes in the last months broken package files for a short time from archive.ubuntu.com
[04:20] <Riddell> they're not with me, I've been installing stuff all day
[04:20] <manchicken> What gets me, is that if we've got some weird difference here that isn't specifically code-related, then I would expect more crashes or otherwise erratic behavior.
[04:20] <Riddell> and I really thin it's far more likely adept or something related breaks than apt
[04:21] <manchicken> Because the only other thing I can think of is bad structure usage or some degree of pointer overflow.
[04:21] <manchicken> (which are, I suppose, could be the same thing)
[04:22] <manchicken> But the thing with adept is that everything in adept seems to be an accessor call.
[04:23] <manchicken> We're not doing anything fancy with structures for that display.
[04:25] <manchicken> Yeah, the code looks right here...
[04:26] <manchicken> If you look at L397 you'll see the function that determines what's in that column
[04:27] <manchicken> Then line 407 looks like its doing the right thing.
[04:28] <manchicken> Makes me wonder if entity::Package got hosed somehow.
[04:28] <Riddell> there was an update to libapt-front at some point
[04:28] <Riddell> you could check if compiling adept with the older version fixes it
[04:28] <manchicken> We haven't touched this part of the adept code in a while.
[04:28] <manchicken> Well, this should be an easy look into the headers.
[04:28] <Riddell> and also check in i386 and amd64 chroot if it is an amd64 only problem
[04:29] <manchicken> Since everything in freakin' libapt-front is in the headers :)
[04:29] <manchicken> Riddell: But I'm on amd64, and I've got it, too.
[04:29] <manchicken> Oh, now I get you.
[04:29] <manchicken> You're saying you don't think it happens on i386.
[04:31] <Riddell> well, it doesn't happen on my i386 or \sh's
[04:31] <Riddell> and it does happen on my amd64 and yours, so it's possible
[04:31] <Riddell> although there shouldn't be anything amd64 specific in adept or apt-front
[04:31] <\sh> manchicken, on i386, when I check the "maintainer checkbox" in the first line next to the search box, I won't see any maintainer field in the listbox below
[04:32] <manchicken> \sh: Is the problem replicable at all on i386 though?
[04:33] <\sh> manchicken, I'll check this evening on my desktop at home...then I can tell...
[04:33] <\sh> I don't have another gutsy machine here in our office
[04:34] <manchicken> That's cool.
[04:34] <manchicken> It looks like if anything is the problem, it's the apt-front cache::component::Record::shortDescription field
[04:35] <manchicken> I don't like this using structs like classes thing.
[04:39] <\sh> I would like to rewrite adept with python...a simple update manager like mvos is just what we need..adept is just a t-rex regarding to update-manager ,)
[04:43] <Riddell> please do
[04:43] <Riddell> although synaptic is also c++
[04:46] <manchicken> \sh: that would be slow as all hell though.
[04:47] <manchicken> It just needs to be cleaned up a bit.  Remove the STL crap, replace it with Qt.
[04:48] <manchicken> And replace the structs with actual structs or real classes.
[04:49] <\sh> manchicken, I started a long time ago "Pynaptic" with pyqt and python-apt...it wasn't so slow at all
[04:49] <yuriy> rewriting a c++ app into python sounds a little counterproductive to me
[04:49] <Riddell> removing STL is more than "just cleaning"
[04:49] <\sh> yuriy, not rewriting...inventing new...
[04:49] <manchicken> Riddell: I understand that it's a bit of an undertaking... but I think it'll help things overall.
[04:50] <Riddell> "Automated Backports Builder"  jdong: what's that?
[04:50] <aaron_> Hello all. I'm using a fairly fresh install of fiesty kubuntu. trying to install kde4. http://pastebin.com/m476d52eb
[04:50] <aaron_> any help
[04:50] <Hobbsee> Riddell: it's crack.
[04:50] <manchicken> Hobbsee: How are ya?
[04:50] <Riddell> manchicken: mornfall has said he'll do a qt 4 port sometime
[04:50] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i'm doing OK
[04:50] <manchicken> Riddell: Yeah, that'll be interesting to see.
[04:50] <Riddell> aaron_: you may have qt -kdecopy installed
[04:51] <manchicken> Riddell: He should wait until after KDE4 is out stable.
[04:51] <\sh> manchicken, problem is that this stl crap is used anywhere regarding apt ;)
[04:51] <manchicken> Because he's using more KDE than Qt
[04:51] <manchicken> \sh: Qt can interface with most of the STL.
[04:53] <\sh> manchicken, http://www.sourcecode.de/public/files/pynaptiq01.swf
[04:53] <\sh> not a nice screencast but anyhow.
[04:57] <\sh> I think a little tool like update-manager for qt should be done in no time...I'll investigate my time schedule and see...eventually I come up with a mocup and such things after FroSCon
[04:58] <Riddell> I wouldn't say no time, but it wouldn't be hard
[04:58] <Riddell> but there's also -installer and -manager
[04:58] <Riddell> and -notifier (which should remain c++)
[04:58] <Riddell> oh and -batch
[04:59] <\sh> Riddell, let's see what we can do to solve those issues ;)
[04:59] <\sh> bbl
[05:22] <aaron_> Riddell: qt kdecopy? what does that do?
[05:24] <Riddell> nothing any more
[05:28] <aaron_> doesn't look like i do.
[05:29] <aaron_> more importantly, i use this to run VNC for gnome/gdm.... can anyone help me make it work for kdm/kubuntu
[05:29] <aaron_> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3193913#post3193913
[05:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: any idea when the plans for UDS boston are announced?
[05:30] <Riddell> I've no idea myself what the plans are
[05:30] <Hobbsee> Riddell: right
[05:34] <Hobbsee> hiya DaSkreech
[05:34] <DaSkreech> Hey Lifehacker has a interview with sabdfl
[05:51] <bddebian> Heya
[05:51] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: is it any good?
[05:52] <DaSkreech> I don't know
[05:52] <DaSkreech> it's at the end of the month. You can write in and ask questions and they will compile anything you wanted to know about him into an interview
[05:53] <Hobbsee> or just speak to him directly.  *shrugs*
[06:05] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: I know it's not terribly interesting to anyone on ICQ :)
[06:38] <Riddell> kwwii: you havn't touched UdsCambridgeSponsorships?
[06:40] <ScottK> Riddell: It looks like soyuz fell over on zekr and failed to upload.  Could you have a look?
[06:40] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zekr/0.5.1.dfsg-0ubuntu1
[06:42] <Riddell> no idea, I'll ask
[06:43] <ScottK> Thanks.
[08:28] <\sh> Riddell, manchicken : I just tested update_manager on my home desktop (i386 again) no maintainer in the list, everything isallright
[08:29] <Riddell> err, adept_manager?
[08:30] <fdoving> tonio: i actually prefer the old kdebluetooth, somehow it's alot faster to list services and directory-contents.
[08:30] <\sh> Riddell, right adept_manager
[08:30] <nixternal> apt is doing something funny for me...it will go through the upgrade, but then sometimes it will lock before it totally finishes
[08:30] <fdoving> oh.. he's not around.
[08:31] <nixternal> dunno if this is apt, or a package that is upgrading...it seems that everytime python is getting updated is when it freezes
[08:31] <fdoving> python sucks.
[08:31] <fdoving> only makes problems :
[08:31] <nixternal> lol
[08:31] <fdoving> pycentral has not been nice to me.
[08:32] <nixternal> I am actually growing quite fond of python
[08:32] <nixternal> but then again, I kind of grew a likeness to java as well
[08:32] <nixternal> haha
[08:33] <fdoving> who doesn't.
[08:33] <nixternal> I will stand toe-to-toe with anything else, but a snake and a spider, and I am like a little baby
[08:34] <nixternal> my neighbors love them...they have over 20 different kinds..I hate going over there
[08:34] <nixternal> haha
[08:34] <DaSkreech> 20 diferent kinds of little babies?
[08:34] <DaSkreech> what? are they a UN petting Zoo ?
[08:35] <nixternal> heh, snakes silly
[08:35] <nixternal> they could be a chicago petting zoo probably...but I am not petting
[08:36] <nixternal> my daughter loves them
[08:36] <ScottK> About Python versus Java...
[08:36] <nixternal> then again, people don't like the fact that I have a pitbull..so I guess we share a likeness
[08:37] <DaSkreech> nixternal: http://www.thecutereport.com/index.php/2007/08/04/whistling-puppy/
[08:37] <nixternal> Sun needs to start doing some homework, because Python is sneaking in big time
[08:37] <ScottK> My wife took a programming course using Java and then one using Python and she was sure she was messing up and missing stuff she needed in her Python programs because it was just too easy.  It couldn't possibly be right.
[08:37] <ScottK> It was right.
[08:38] <nixternal> ya...see I found Java very easy, but tedious in times because of a somewhat nasty API
[08:39] <nixternal> DaSkreech: now that was damn cute! what kind of puppy was that?
[08:40] <DaSkreech> Pug I think
[08:40] <nixternal> I had a puppy in November of last year, but it has grown up to be a little devil
[08:40] <nixternal> I thought it might be a (sorry for my spelling, so I will spell it how it sounds) sharpay
[08:40] <nixternal> but it looked pretty small for one of those
[08:42] <nixternal> http://www.thecutereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/dogtowel.jpg
[08:42] <nixternal> that would be a "sharpay", so I guess I was wrong
[08:46] <DaSkreech> ha ha. That's hilarious
[09:26] <ScarFreewill> how do I extract edit denpenencies and re-deb a deb file?
[09:33] <ScarFreewill> I have extracted the file and edited it, this is what I get when I try to recompress it  dpkg-deb: failed to open package info file `./kdelibs5_3.92.0-0ubuntu3~feisty1_i386/DEBIAN/control' for reading: No such file or directory
[10:17] <DaSkreech> Does anyone know how much For RHN
[10:18] <fdoving> ScarFreewill: i guess you're looking for dpkg-repack (in universe).
[10:19] <fdoving> if you just want to put the package back together, binary version only.
[10:20] <ScarFreewill> fdoving: I've gotten it to work using just normal extraction but i'll try that with libqt4-dev that i need to edit now too
[10:21] <fdoving> what is it you're editing?
[10:21] <ScarFreewill> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/+bug/132517)
[10:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132517 in kde4libs "kdelibs5: Depends: dbus-x11 but it is not installable" [Undecided,New] 
[10:21] <fdoving> it's usually better to fix the package, than to work around it.
[10:21] <ScarFreewill> I'm just trying to run kde4 :P
[10:21] <fdoving> ok.
[10:21] <fdoving> do you extract with ar xf?
[10:22] <ScarFreewill> ark.. isn't it the same?
[10:22] <fdoving> yeah, probably.
[10:22] <ScarFreewill> (as ar xf?)
[10:23] <fdoving> then you extracted control.tar.gz and edited?
[10:23] <ScarFreewill> yes
[10:27] <DaSkreech> server split?
[10:29] <stdin> small one, yeah
[10:32] <fdoving> ScarFreewill: you can use 'ar rcu yourdeb.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz' to re-make the .deb from the modified control.tar.gz and the data.tar.gz, i guess you can figure out how to re-compress the control.tar.gz or do you want that too?
[10:35] <ScarFreewill> I just extracted the deb, extracted the control.tar.gz, extracted the data.tar.gz, renamed controle folder to DEBIAN, deleted debian-binary edited what i wanted to and did "dpkg -b dir deb"
[10:35] <fdoving> ok.
[10:36] <ScarFreewill> thanks for the support though :-D
[10:41] <fdoving> you could have: ar xf file.deb;tar -zx -C DEBIAN -f control.tar.gz;[make changes] ;tar -cz -C DEBIAN -f control.tar.gz;ar rcu yourdeb.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz
[10:42] <fdoving> but that's the 'by-hand' way.
[11:08] <manchicken> \sh_away: We'll hopefully know here soon.  There's a fair chance I may be buying a new machine today.
[11:16] <DaSkreech>  :)
[11:33] <manchicken> anybody know if the Intel 4965AGN is any good?
[11:34] <manchicken> Sorry, I'll ask in #kubuntu :)
[11:34] <fdoving> intels usually works nicely with linux.
[11:35] <manchicken> I just don't want to end up with another broadcom, if you know what I mean.
[11:35] <fdoving> i do.
[11:35] <manchicken> This Toshiba machine looks pretty good, I just want to make sure that all of the hardware will work.
[11:35] <manchicken> Do you know if built-in bluetooth hardware is usually okay or problematic?
[11:35] <fdoving> i have a 3945ABG, it's good.
[11:36] <manchicken> Yeah, I just worry about it because it's that new wireless N thing.
[11:36] <fdoving> my dell has a okay builtin bluetooth-thing.
[11:36] <manchicken> I'd ask in #ubuntu-kernel, but I'm sure they get plenty of dumb questions per day, and don't need any from me :)
[11:37] <fdoving> they are nice :)
[11:37] <manchicken> Yes, but they've also got better things to do than answer my dumb questions :)
[11:38] <ddjikic> can someone help me i cant start x , in #kubuntu no one know
[11:38] <manchicken> Does the live CD have bluetooth on it?
[11:38] <manchicken> that's a brilliant test!!!!
[11:38] <manchicken> I can't believe I didn't think about that!
[11:38] <nosrednaekim> what?
[11:38] <fdoving> can't see why it shouldn't have that.
[11:40] <fdoving> i had to downgrade the vista-bluetooth drivers to the xp version, to make the device appear in linux.
[11:41] <manchicken> That's a great idea, have the boys at Circuit City let me run the demo disc.
[11:41] <manchicken> What?  You have to run windows drivers?
[11:41] <manchicken> I'm not interested in that at all.
[11:41] <fdoving> my dell came with vista, and i had to downgrade to the xp drivers for the bluetooth device, for it to be "switched on", properly.
[11:42] <fdoving> I only had to do that once.
[11:42] <manchicken> Oh, is it just a firmware issue?
[11:42] <fdoving> yes.
[11:42] <manchicken> Okay...
[11:42] <fdoving> the vista-driver-firmware broke linux support. somehow.
[11:42] <manchicken> That's not so terrible I suppose, but I'm never going to run the windows if I buy a machine with that on there.
[11:42] <nosrednaekim> do circuit city, etc let you run liveCD's before you buy?
[11:42] <fdoving> I didn't plan to either.
[11:42] <manchicken> nosrednaekim: If they want to sell laptops they will.
[11:42] <manchicken> At least if they want to sell one to me.
[11:44] <nosrednaekim> wow.... I never even THOUGHT of doing that....
[11:52] <manchicken> This poor lady at Dell is catching the brunt force of my consumer demand.
[11:52] <nosrednaekim> heh.. Daisuke_Ido got his... he was complaining about video drivers.
[11:53] <nosrednaekim> the default ones don't support DRI, and the new ones messed up his screen.
[11:53] <manchicken> What graphics card did he get?
[11:54] <nosrednaekim> the default X3100 or whatever.
[11:54] <manchicken> Ah.
[11:54] <manchicken> This toshiba has a 950.
[11:54] <manchicken> I think that's the one that is supposed to be super-supported.
[11:54] <manchicken> Did Daisuke_Ido get the OEM Ubuntu machine?
[11:55] <nosrednaekim> yes... the 1420 (in black)
[11:55] <manchicken> Ah.
[11:55] <nosrednaekim> and its got that new Santa Rosa Chipset.
[11:55] <manchicken> I'm gonna call Circuit City if I end up cancelling with Dell, and see if they'll let me bring my disc in there.
[11:55] <fdoving> grr.. the new compiz in universe kills kde-window-decorator
[11:56] <manchicken> I don't give a damn about the webcam or the card reader, I just want 3D, bluetooth, and wireless to work.
[11:56] <nosrednaekim> 3d works with gusty accrding to reports.
[11:56] <manchicken> Is there a list of supported bluetooth devices?
[12:01] <manchicken> http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/features.html
[12:01] <manchicken> Nice.
[12:02] <DaSkreech> ddjikic: still can't get help?
[12:15] <ijuz__> 3d with santa rosa...
[12:15] <ijuz__> is glxgears 3d? >:->
[12:16] <ijuz__> (crashes X)