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| === Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-9.25 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels re-added | New Kernel Team machine: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/ | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by lamont at Fri Aug 3 16:12:28 2007 | ||
| === #ubuntu-kernel [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | ||
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| === Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-kernel.log | ||
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-9.25 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels re-added | New Kernel Team machine: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/ | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by lamont at Fri Aug 3 16:12:28 2007 | ||
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| joris_ | I have a rather odd feisty problem. Machine with a core2quad cpu with a 2.6.20-16-generic kernel works very fast, altough with only 3.2 out of 8GB of ram. Installing the 2.6.20-16-server kernel halves disk IO speed (measurably) and subjectively decimates CPU performance... I'm at a complete loss | 08:09 |
|---|---|---|
| joris_ | I filed a bugreport containing some more info https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=2.6.20-16-server&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package= | 08:09 |
| joris_ | wrong url, sorry | 08:10 |
| BenC | joris_: are you trying 32-bit or 64-bit kernel? | 08:12 |
| joris_ | 32bit | 08:13 |
| BenC | Try 64-bit | 08:13 |
| fabbione | hey BenC | 08:13 |
| BenC | hey fabbione | 08:14 |
| joris_ | (hmmz, I can't seem to find my own bugreport on launchpad..) | 08:14 |
| joris_ | bug id #132577 | 08:15 |
| joris_ | BenC: do you mean to install an x86_64 optimized kernel, or switching the entire distro to 64bit? | 08:16 |
| BenC | well, you have to do the entire distro | 08:16 |
| joris_ | ouch | 08:16 |
| BenC | but you could just do a kernel, but it wont be easy | 08:16 |
| joris_ | it's supposed to become a fat server (for thin clients) for a school... they'll need some 32bit apps like flash | 08:17 |
| joris_ | BenC: apt-pinning feisty/amd64 for linux-image*? | 08:18 |
| fabbione | no you can't use pinning for this | 08:18 |
| BenC | this is taking a .deb by hand and dpkg-deb extract/control -> build | 08:18 |
| BenC | and having to continue doing it for security updates | 08:19 |
| joris_ | hmm... not fun | 08:19 |
| BenC | you can't use a chroot for the 32-bit thin clients? | 08:19 |
| joris_ | is it a known problem? is it worth the effort to try to bugfix this? | 08:19 |
| fabbione | joris_: are you using LTSP ? | 08:19 |
| fabbione | or some manually crafted thin client installation? | 08:20 |
| BenC | it's not a bug...just 32-bit can only handle but so much (the slowdown on -server is a bug though) | 08:20 |
| joris_ | BenC: possibly yes, but I'm having enough trouble getting LTSP up and running without doing an arch transposition | 08:20 |
| joris_ | fabbione: no, edubuntu ltsp :) | 08:20 |
| fabbione | joris_: ok. i suggest you wait one hour or so and talk to ogra | 08:20 |
| fabbione | joris_: i think he did put some work into running an amd64 server with 32bit thin client for flash and stuff | 08:21 |
| joris_ | aha | 08:21 |
| joris_ | he'll be on here? | 08:21 |
| fabbione | he is no kernel expert but he is the LTSP guru | 08:21 |
| joris_ | nice :) | 08:21 |
| fabbione | in #edubuntu or #ubuntu-devel | 08:21 |
| joris_ | I'll see if I can remotely reinstall the machine to amd64 | 08:21 |
| fabbione | but he is not awake yet for what i can see | 08:21 |
| fabbione | i'd recommend to talk to ogra first | 08:22 |
| fabbione | and see what's the best way to handle it | 08:22 |
| joris_ | well, I don't know yet if going to amd64 will fix the lack of performance | 08:22 |
| BenC | joris_: you could try booting an amd64 livecd and see what it would do | 08:34 |
| BenC | pretty sure it would handle the memory a lot better | 08:35 |
| mjg59 | joris_: Your BIOS doesn't set MTRRs for the upper memory | 08:37 |
| mjg59 | So it's all flagged as uncacheable, and performance sucks | 08:37 |
| mjg59 | It's unlikely that using a 64-bit kernel will help her | 08:37 |
| mjg59 | e | 08:37 |
| BenC | ah, there's a better answer | 08:37 |
| mjg59 | We really need PAT support in Linux, but nobody's written an implementation the maintainer is happy with | 08:38 |
| joris_ | mjg59: hmmm | 08:45 |
| joris_ | mjg59: that's not good | 08:46 |
| joris_ | and this is why I recommended using a server board, but they wanted to save 100 bucks | 08:46 |
| joris_ | mjg59: the effect is really surprisingly strong btw | 08:47 |
| mjg59 | Yes, it will be | 08:47 |
| mjg59 | The machine will be basically unusable | 08:47 |
| joris_ | it's not like a 10% slowdown, it's more like a 95% slowdown | 08:47 |
| joris_ | it is indeed | 08:47 |
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| joris_ | mjg59: anything I can try to objectively measure this? | 08:56 |
| mjg59 | joris_: Not really - it'll depend on workloads and where in memory stuff gets allocated | 08:57 |
| mjg59 | The bottom ~4GB is probably flagged cacheable, but the kernel will be loaded higher | 08:58 |
| mjg59 | So if your code is in the cacheable region and doesn't make any syscalls, it'll probably run fairly fast | 08:58 |
| joris_ | hmmm | 08:59 |
| joris_ | without programming C there is no way to put a benchmark util in upper or lower memory, I presume | 09:00 |
| Mithrandir | take out half the memory and see if it improves vastly? | 09:01 |
| mjg59 | There's no way to do it at all | 09:01 |
| mjg59 | You're at the mercy of the kernel in terms of where your app ends up | 09:01 |
| joris_ | Mithrandir: that's what happens with the desktop kernel, presumably | 09:02 |
| joris_ | mjg59: ok :( | 09:02 |
| mjg59 | It's a genuine failing in Linux to implement PAT, but it's also a BIOS issue to fail to set the MTRRs sanely | 09:02 |
| Mithrandir | joris_: presumably, yes. | 09:02 |
| mjg59 | You can boot with different values of mem= to find the maximum you can get away with | 09:02 |
| mjg59 | joris_: Adding the output of cat /proc/mtrr to the bug would be helpful | 09:03 |
| joris_ | mjg59: is there any logic in the values to try? | 09:03 |
| joris_ | mjg59: will do so | 09:03 |
| mjg59 | joris_: Look at /proc/mtrr. Figure out the highest address that's flagged write-back or write-through. | 09:03 |
| mjg59 | That's the maximum amount of RAM you can use | 09:03 |
| joris_ | okay | 09:03 |
| joris_ | as soon as the machine finishes installing sysinfo (half an hour and counting) | 09:04 |
| joris_ | mjg59: it's attached | 09:09 |
| mjg59 | joris_: Thanks - what was the bug number, again? | 09:09 |
| joris_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/132577 | 09:09 |
| joris_ | what does write-combining mean? | 09:10 |
| mjg59 | joris_: Looks like you're not going to get more than 3584MB | 09:12 |
| mjg59 | joris_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-combining :) | 09:12 |
| joris_ | ouch :( | 09:13 |
| mjg59 | The mtrrs simply don't cover more than that | 09:13 |
| kraut | moin | 09:16 |
| joris_ | mjg59: do you know off hat what unit/syntax does the kernel mem= parameter accept? | 09:18 |
| joris_ | 'mem=xyzM' ? | 09:19 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 09:19 |
| joris_ | mem=3584M it is then | 09:20 |
| mjg59 | Might end up needing to be slightly lower than that | 09:21 |
| mjg59 | But give that a go first | 09:21 |
| joris_ | okay, here goes nothing | 09:22 |
| joris_ | that worked :) | 09:24 |
| mjg59 | Excellent | 09:24 |
| joris_ | it's most likely an intel 965-based motherboard | 09:25 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 09:26 |
| mjg59 | All you can really do at this point is check for a bios update, I'm afraid | 09:26 |
| joris_ | yep... makes sense :/ | 09:27 |
| mjg59 | Or wait for PAT support | 09:27 |
| joris_ | I'll break the bad news | 09:27 |
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| zul | morning | 02:31 |
| lamont | morning zul | 03:05 |
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| zul | hi lamont how goes it? | 03:22 |
| lamont | generally pretty well | 03:22 |
| zul | good | 03:23 |
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| instabin|work | Is any one working on getting the nvidia 100.14.11 drivers in to gutsy | 04:27 |
| infinity | Yes. | 04:31 |
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | Latest kernel upload: 2.6.22-9.25 | Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels re-added | New Kernel Team machine: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/ | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by lamont at Fri Aug 3 16:12:28 2007 | ||
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| NativeAngels | hello | 10:42 |
| NativeAngels | is there anyone in here who knows about unrealirc and neostats | 10:42 |
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| mjg59 | NativeAngels: This sounds like the wrong place to ask | 10:42 |
| NativeAngels | i know | 10:43 |
| NativeAngels | sorry | 10:43 |
| verwilst | hellow! | 10:44 |
| NativeAngels | hello | 10:44 |
| verwilst | i'm building the -xen kernel for amd64 | 10:44 |
| verwilst | i did an apt-get source linux-source-2.6.22 | 10:44 |
| verwilst | and then debuild | 10:44 |
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| verwilst | but this will take aaaages :) | 10:44 |
| verwilst | is there an easy way to only build the -xen kernel? | 10:44 |
| verwilst | ): | 10:44 |
| verwilst | it's done "build-generic build-server custom-build-rt custom-source-rt" so far :) | 10:45 |
| verwilst | btw any reason why -xen is i386-only? | 10:45 |
| verwilst | and not amd64? | 10:45 |
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| JanC | verwilst: because it doesn't compile on amd64 AFAIK :) | 11:14 |
| verwilst | oh? | 11:14 |
| verwilst | we'll soon know =- | 11:14 |
| verwilst | :) | 11:14 |
| verwilst | i'm compiling it now | 11:14 |
| JanC | I might be wrong, but I'm sure there must be a good reason | 11:15 |
| verwilst | i could really use an amd64 version of the -xen though :) | 11:16 |
| verwilst | the 2.6.18 from xensource has ext3 corruption | 11:16 |
| verwilst | as i experienced :p | 11:16 |
| JanC | Xen patches seem to be constantly outdated compared to current kernels anyway :) | 11:16 |
| verwilst | yeah | 11:17 |
| verwilst | maybe i should just use a 32bit system instead of a 64bit.. | 11:17 |
| verwilst | but 64bit is a lot faster imo | 11:17 |
| verwilst | does the -generic have pae? | 11:17 |
| JanC | hm, what's the kernel config option for PAE again? | 11:23 |
| JanC | anyway, there are -server kernels too | 11:24 |
| verwilst | i need to use -xen, stupid me :) | 11:25 |
| verwilst | 32bit, with -xen | 11:25 |
| verwilst | can i go over 4GB RAM with it? | 11:25 |
| JanC | I have no -xen kernels installed | 11:27 |
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| JanC | I guess they support > 4 GiB of RAM if the patch allows for it | 11:30 |
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