[09:16] <kraut> moin
[02:05] <highvoltage> @schedule
[02:05] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00: Xubuntu Developers
[02:05] <highvoltage> hmmm, isn't the launchpad-users meeting also supposed to be in there?
[02:06] <highvoltage> Seveas: does ubotu get the schedule from the fridge?
[04:43] <popey> Seveas is on holiday isn't he?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> popey: no, he's back
[04:49] <popey> oh
[06:33] <Seveas> popey, I'm back
[06:33] <popey> so i see :)
[06:33] <Seveas> highvoltage, yes, from the fridge
[06:34] <BFTD> @schedule los_angles
[06:35] <BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
[06:35] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 15 Aug 13:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 15:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 08:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 05:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
[10:00] <RichEd> hi ... coffee and right back and then we kick off
[10:05] <RichEd> back ...
[10:06] <RichEd> ogra kicks off with technical
[10:06] <ogra> well, tribe 4 is out ... it was a heavy baby to raise this time ...
[10:06] <LaserJock> \o/
[10:07] <ogra> took me quite some time to make the CDs work at all this time
[10:07] <ogra> lots and lots of thanks go to LaserJock who took care for the live CDs
[10:07] <LaserJock> it was fun
[10:07] <ogra> and was well done :)
[10:08] <LaserJock> well, it made it anyway
[10:08] <ogra> i wouldnt have managed tribe 4 without you, kudos, really
[10:08] <LaserJock> blah
[10:08] <LaserJock> I just help where I can :-)
[10:08] <LaserJock> I can't do the real stuff like ogra
[10:09] <jono> hey pips1
[10:09] <ogra> LaserJock, there isnt much more involved than maintaining seeds, building metaoackages and ask for iso rebuilds
[10:10] <ogra> no magic anymore :)
[10:10] <ogra> anyway, beyond that scott (who went camping with his family today) wroked his ass off to get ldm2 complete before feature freeze
[10:11] <ogra> i'm working on merging his last changes before tomorrow
[10:11] <LaserJock> three cheers for Scotty
[10:11] <ogra> yeah
[10:11] <ogra> i havent gotten his stuff building yet though
[10:11] <ogra> will keep me busy tomorrow
[10:11] <LaserJock> it sounds great though
[10:12] <ogra> yeah, its all complete
[10:12] <LaserJock> really what people are needing
[10:12] <LaserJock> how are the spec doing as we head to Tribe 5?
[10:12] <ogra> a list of features (c&p from a mail from scott):
[10:12] <ogra> 1) Translated into C: check
[10:12] <ogra> 2) Eliminated delayed mounter: check.
[10:12] <ogra> 3) Greeter: check.
[10:12] <ogra> 4) Selectable lang, session, and host: check.
[10:12] <ogra> 5) Fixed up some server side things for handling multi-hosts: check.
[10:12] <ogra> 6) Better password handling: check.
[10:12] <ogra> 7) i18n: added tonight (don't know if I did it right)
[10:12] <ogra> sooo
[10:13] <ogra> ldm finally will be translatable, it has proper error messages now, we support multiple application servers to log in to and its a lot speedier ...
[10:13] <ogra> oh, and we have autologin and unencrypted X transport ....
[10:14] <ogra> not perfect yet but looots better than any ldm before
[10:14] <LaserJock> \o/
[10:15] <ogra> i merged some other fixes, we now support serial lcd touchpads (in some industrial PCs)
[10:16] <ogra> oh, he's here ....
[10:16] <ogra> toonix wrote an article for the german linux magazin about ltsp ...
[10:17] <ogra> everybody take a bow
[10:17] <toonix> whoops
[10:17] <ogra> ;)
[10:17] <LaserJock> toonix: cool
[10:18] <toonix> Well, I hope it's cool ;)
[10:19] <LaserJock> well, I don't know german so I can't say it's not anyway ;-)
[10:19] <ogra> LaserJocks changes are now in the server-addon CD, we still need icons, if you have a spare Gb of bandwith, try it out and do some testing of the UI changes and give feedback to the mailing list or irc
[10:20] <LaserJock> btw, to test the menu anyway, you don't have to have gutsy
[10:21] <ogra> feature freeze is tomorrow (as well as upstream version freeze) i havent heard anything from moquist about moodle yet :/
[10:21] <LaserJock> it should work in any Feisty or Gutsy Ubuntu or Edubuntu machine
[10:21] <ogra> LaserJock, did you ?
[10:21] <pips1> toonix: nice nick :-)
[10:21] <LaserJock> nope
[10:21] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure we can get a UVF exception for it
[10:21] <ogra> i hope so
[10:21] <ogra> pitti will be on hneymoon
[10:21] <LaserJock> how hard is feature freeze for the Addon CD
[10:21] <LaserJock> I was going to try to get a few more apps on
[10:22] <ogra> as hard as always ...
[10:22] <pips1> re moodle :-/
[10:22] <toonix> Normally I call myself Tunix, but this nick is already occupied by someone at FreeNode.
[10:22] <ogra> no freeze without exceptions ....
[10:22] <ogra> its just a lot of paperwork
[10:22] <LaserJock> ogra: but does a new app on the Addon CD count as  a Feature? I'm a bit fuzzy on what counts
[10:23] <ogra> nah, i dont think you can call that a feature
[10:23] <pips1> interesting
[10:23] <ogra> adding a new category for it to teh code might be one
[10:23] <LaserJock> oh interesting
[10:23] <ogra> but thats would be small enough to easily get an exception
[10:24] <LaserJock> no, I don't think categories should change
[10:24] <LaserJock> I think the ones I wanted were still Science/Math
[10:24] <LaserJock> I might need to get debian-cd patched to get the icons
[10:24] <LaserJock> I suppose I should do that ASAP
[10:25] <ogra> how big is that patch ?
[10:25] <LaserJock> very small
[10:25] <LaserJock> just a cp
[10:25] <ogra> trivial enough ...
[10:26] <LaserJock> I've already got debian-cd to use the app-install-data-edubuntu .deb
[10:26] <LaserJock> I just need it to copy icons as well as the .desktop and .directory files
[10:26] <ogra> oh, remind me to add that to the seeds
[10:26] <LaserJock> that's only if we use new icons
[10:27] <LaserJock> if we use existing icons (say from one of the apps) we don't need it
[10:28] <ogra> well, we still have enough time until final artwork freeze ...
[10:28] <ogra> (and even then ... its a bugfix)
[10:28] <LaserJock> mhm
[10:28] <LaserJock> so I'm pretty set
[10:28] <LaserJock> I've marked the spec as Beta Available
[10:28] <LaserJock> I didn't get to dynamic menus :(
[10:29] <ogra> right, i'll go through the specs on the weekend and set the latest status
[10:29] <LaserJock> but I think I'll start work on it soon so that it'll be ready to go for Gutsy+1
[10:29] <ogra> that'd be cool
[10:30] <ogra> i have a good bunch left from this round but LTSP got new blood at ubuntulive ... :)
[10:30] <ogra> Francis Giraldeau is caring for clustering solutions etc
[10:30] <ogra> he did mille-xterm before
[10:31] <ogra> a solution built around ltsp with clustering for really big setups in universities etc
[10:31] <ogra> i hope we can offer such a solution inside ltsp with gutsy+1
[10:32] <pips1> nice one
[10:33] <ogra> there was also a guy who is very intrested in implementing fat clients for us, i'm still not done writing the basic howto for him to get him started (lack of time) but will do so the next days
[10:33] <ogra> with the planned authentication server the server team wants to have in gutsy+1 we hopefully will have fat clients then as well
[10:34] <LaserJock> awesome
[10:34] <stgraber> main thing would be to have some kind of scp-client working on a fat client, that'd allow easier management of mixed environment with both fat and thin clients
[10:34] <ogra> stgraber, i'm pondering to switch to italc ....
[10:34] <pips1> re network-auth for gutsy+1 fingers crossed
[10:35] <ogra> it would need ltsp5 integration which doesnt exist yet
[10:35] <stgraber> (btw, hi here :))
[10:35] <LaserJock> ogra: is italc the gambas one?
[10:35] <pips1> hey stgraber, you nastly lurker, you!
[10:35] <ogra> stgraber, italc is what guadalinex uses everywhere ... but its a bit scary security wise ...
[10:35] <pips1> :-)
[10:35] <ogra> LaserJock, nope ...
[10:35] <stgraber> oh, I didn't know of that tool, looks great (as always I only looked at the screenshots :))
[10:35] <ogra> LaserJock, its in the archive
[10:36] <LaserJock> openSUSE wants italic (I've been checking out the Edu efforts)
[10:36] <ogra> and provides pretty much what SCP does ...
[10:36] <LaserJock> but they also want webmin so ...
[10:36] <pips1> ogra: I'm surprised about your italc change of mind...
[10:36] <ogra> it has the advantage of not being bound to a speific setup ...
[10:36] <ogra> pips1, the code quality didnt get better
[10:37] <ogra> but teh tour at guadalinex was pretty impressive
[10:37] <pips1> aha
[10:37] <pips1> ic
[10:37] <pips1> i didn't realise they are using it
[10:38] <ogra> its what the teacher uses to control the classroom
[10:38] <stgraber> this italc tool seems to be pretty similar as what the school I'm setting up my edubuntu network at are using on Windows (they are using Genevalogic Vision 6 (was Mastereye))
[10:39] <ogra> thin client manager was always planned as a small tool for single ltsp servers to maintain sessions ...
[10:39] <pips1> i noticed people asking for the SCP features on the mailing list... dave trask trying to get the VNC stuff to work...
[10:39] <ogra> currently i dont like the way it goes, it seems to develop bloat ....
[10:39] <ogra> yeah, after feature freeze i'll concentrate on bugs
[10:39] <ogra> i'll look what we can do with vnc
[10:40] <ogra> stgraber started some work on a vnc tool ...
[10:40] <stgraber> looking at how the Windows tools are working, we'll have some problem with VNC and demo mode
[10:40] <stgraber> Windows tools are using broadcasting
[10:40] <stgraber> where we have to use unicast ...
[10:41] <ogra> and brought me to a simple script that doesnt generate much load to have small screenshots of every screen ...
[10:41] <ogra> i think i'll switch TCM to this for the preview ...
[10:41] <stgraber> ogra: btw, I have a little problem with your script :), it freezes the screen while taking the screenshot :)
[10:41] <ogra> i'm not sure we can get vnc in the client by defaul
[10:41] <ogra> stgraber, for a millisecond, yes
[10:42] <ogra> that xwd's fault
[10:42] <ogra> so manually installing x111vnc might still be necessary
[10:42] <ogra> *x11
[10:43] <ogra> i'll look if that can be solved somehow ...
[10:44] <ogra> ok, i think thats all from my side today ...
[10:44] <ogra> questions ?
[10:44] <stgraber> btw, I'll have a working version of my reworked TCM by the end of the week (as it's my deadline for the school I'm testing it at)
[10:45] <ogra> stgraber, oh, you didnt say you work *on* TCM ... i thought you developed something new ...
[10:45] <ogra> thats cool
[10:45] <pips1> ogra: what about schooltool, will it be included by default?
[10:45] <stgraber> weel, due to the massive UI change I've started at zero and copy/paste some stuff from the current tcm
[10:46] <stgraber> (proccess management for instance)
[10:46] <ogra> pips1, oh, thanks for asking
[10:46] <ogra> no
[10:46] <ogra> the only schooltool packages we could use need the latest alpha version of zope
[10:46] <stgraber> (and I use the studentcontrolpanel python thing to access the userlist and all other actions
[10:46] <stgraber> )
[10:47] <pips1> ogra: ic
[10:47] <ogra> which we cant add ...
[10:47] <ogra> so it will have to wait another release :(
[10:47] <ogra> stgraber, ah, so its rather a rewrite
[10:48] <stgraber> yes
[10:49] <pips1> ogra: oh, btw, what is the state of affairs regarding willow? has that progressed?
[10:49] <pips1> i mean upstream
[10:50] <pips1> sorry, this is rather off topic
[10:51] <LaserJock> pips1: I think Amaranth is gone on to compiz heaven ;-)
[10:51] <pips1> oh
[10:52] <ogra_> grr
 stgraber, ah, so its rather a rewrite
 yes
[10:52] <ogra_> ^^^ the last bit i saw
 ogra: oh, btw, what is the state of affairs regarding willow? has that progressed?
 i mean upstream
 sorry, this is rather off topic
 pips1: I think Amaranth is gone on to compiz heaven ;-)
[10:53] <ogra_> pips1, what LaserJock said
[10:53] <ogra_> pips1, we're clearly lacking developers
[10:54] <pips1> hmm
[10:56] <ogra_> baltix ?
[10:56] <LaserJock> maybe we should let them write it then ;-)
[10:57] <ogra_> well, target is dapper
[10:57] <ogra_> and it was created more than a year ago
[10:58] <ogra_> if someone is intrested in it they are free to take the willowng package
[10:58] <ogra_> its only missing some pieces actually
[10:58] <ogra_> but anyway, our hour is up ...
[10:59] <LaserJock> lots got done and there is lots yet to do! \o/
[10:59] <ogra_> yeah, heh
[10:59] <ogra_> and gutsy will rock
[11:00] <RichEd> Artwork ...
[11:00] <RichEd> Our volunteer sent me a mail this week ... thanking LaserJock for his help
[11:00] <RichEd> and a sample 1st effort that you can see here:
[11:00] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
[11:01] <RichEd> She would like some comments on her first effort.
[11:01] <ogra> its a great start ...
[11:01] <LaserJock> oh, that's nifty
[11:01] <pips1> how do we comment?
[11:01] <pips1> is she here?
[11:01] <LaserJock> you can edit the wiki page I imagine
[11:01] <RichEd> I'm going to try to hook her up with cbx33 for guidance ... she felt a bit bad taking LaserJock's time when he is more of a "coding person"
[11:02] <RichEd> add comments to the wiki page pips1 ...
[11:02] <pips1> ok
[11:02] <ogra> pips1, she's jillc
[11:02] <RichEd> I hope she will attend one of the next meetings ...
[11:02] <ogra> (and not here atm)
[11:03] <LaserJock> RichEd: I don't mind either, but I'm not much of an artist
[11:03] <RichEd> I like the sample myself ... the quality is certainly decent ... and I think if we put her onto a specific task with a "spec" she would be able to be a help
[11:04] <LaserJock> we need to make sure it works well as a wallpaper
[11:04] <RichEd> LaserJock: that's where I think pete will be able to help out with guidance ...
[11:04] <ogra> yeah needs a bit more abstraction
[11:05] <LaserJock> ogra: I agree
[11:05] <RichEd> comments like that would be good for the wiki page, and then I can mail her the link
[11:05] <ogra> RichEd, well, i dont want her to struggle with procedures, she shall do artwork
[11:05] <LaserJock> it gets busy when there is a "real" looking desktop
[11:05] <ogra> for now i'm fine to act as proxy for pics
[11:06] <RichEd> LaserJock: agreed on the above ... for a default ship wallpaper, "muted" graphics work best to avoid "eye clutter"
[11:06] <RichEd> but i think that kids would dig the sort of thing she has provided as an optional choice
[11:06] <ogra> yeah
[11:07] <LaserJock> I think the key is to get a good number of choices
[11:07] <LaserJock> not perfection first round
[11:07] <LaserJock> then she can refine them with feedback
[11:07] <RichEd> For attempt #1 ... I think a fine effort
[11:07] <ogra> thats definately a good starter for the kids desktop ...
[11:07] <RichEd> What default wallpaper will 7.10 ship with ?
[11:07] <RichEd> ogra ?
[11:07] <LaserJock> I hate for her to go through all the trouble to get it perfect and then have  use "well, I was really thinking ..."
[11:08] <ogra> RichEd, abstract, somewhat educational
[11:08] <ogra> RichEd, apparently everybody loved the edgy wallpaper
[11:08] <RichEd> do we have a viewable sample ? so that I can show her ?
[11:08] <ogra> so we should probably try to go that way
[11:08] <RichEd> of gutsy ?
[11:09] <RichEd> I'll try to get a page up with all of the defaults we've shipped ... to show her the "abstract" concept (of such a page does not exist)
[11:10] <RichEd> okay moving on ... to WebSites
[11:10] <RichEd> pips1: any comments ? news ?
[11:11] <pips1> well, none, I'm afraid. I've been busy with my day job non-stop
[11:12] <RichEd> okay :) we understand
[11:12] <RichEd> and community ?
[11:13] <RichEd> LaserJock: do you want to mention the fridge story you are putting up ?
[11:13] <LaserJock> well, check out Fridge
[11:13] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:14] <LaserJock> it's an interesting project FOSSCom and Ubuntu Education are doing
[11:14] <LaserJock> about how formal education might learn from FLOSS
[11:14] <LaserJock> kinda "hackers turned education research subjects" sound ;-)
[11:14] <RichEd> that comment is about FLOSSCom ... the project about taking the lessons of Open Source developement collaboration ... and extending into other general education areas
[11:15] <RichEd> they are hosting a summer university ... and are using Launchpad and the Ubuntu wiki for hosting projects and info
[11:15] <RichEd> check out the fridge for more ... LaserJock does the story have a link to the ubuntu wiki page ?
[11:16] <pips1> no, but to launchpad project
[11:16] <LaserJock> hmm, it does to the list of meeting
[11:16] <LaserJock> s
[11:16] <pips1> ah, correct
[11:16] <LaserJock> but it does to Launchpad and FOSSCom website
[11:17] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FLOSSCom
[11:17] <RichEd> ...
[11:18] <RichEd> And finally on the Planning Topic ... I still need to split the meeting agenda's and mail out to the lists
[11:18] <RichEd> Just a comment to LaserJock regarding our discussion 2 weeks ago ...
[11:18] <pips1> I think the links in the announcement work well ... I vaguely remember recommending Andreas NOT to link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FLOSSCom directly, because the information there is a bit overwhelming
[11:19] <RichEd> tonight used up a full hour for tech ...
[11:19] <RichEd> (^ pips1 makes sense)
[11:19] <RichEd> So I think an hour meeting for edubuntu-devel and an hour for edubuntu-users is not unreasonable
[11:19] <RichEd> ---
[11:20] <LaserJock> RichEd: well, we didn't at all go according to the new scheme either ;-)
[11:20] <LaserJock> but point taken
[11:20] <RichEd> Any other topics anyone else wants to raise for tonight ?
[11:21] <RichEd> ogra: any other points / discussions ?
[11:21] <ogra> not really ...
[11:21] <RichEd> going once ...
[11:22] <LaserJock> nope
[11:22] <LaserJock> go for it
[11:22] <RichEd> going twice ...
[11:22] <RichEd> ! BONG !
[11:22] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bong ! - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:22] <RichEd> thanks all
[11:22] <ogra> thanks :)
[11:22] <ogra> yay, bed ....
[11:22] <pips1> LOL about ubuntu
[11:23] <pips1> LOL about ubotu
[11:23] <pips1> I meant
[11:23] <pips1> good night
[11:23] <RichEd> ubotu does not know want a bong is ... he clearly was not a student ;)
[11:23] <ogra> night
[11:23] <RichEd> night all