/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/08/16/#kubuntu-devel.txt

manchickenLMAO, Circuit City says they're cool with me testing out this machine with the live CD.12:19
Riddellnixternal: ping, can you do whatever tidying up is needed and publish http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1085 ?12:32
nixternalRiddell: posted!02:02
jdonglastlog jdong02:07
jdonggrr02:07
jdongRiddell: it's a Ruby-on-rails wrapper over a set of pbuilders, automatically triages backports builds and spits out build logs and i386 debs02:07
jdongused for testing purposes02:07
nixternalRiddell: is amarok 1.4.7 being packaged yet? if not, where is the updated tarball?02:10
nixternalnevermind, found it02:10
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nixternalhey, with Konqueror you don't need to install the java plugin do you?03:16
nixternalsimply installing Sun Java 6 bin works with Konqueror right03:17
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kazuma_hey05:56
kazuma_stdin05:56
kazuma_are you there? xD05:56
kazuma_someone can help me?05:56
robotgeekkazuma_: for support, please go to #kubuntu06:00
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cynicsapachelogger_: congrats  :)09:00
Hobbseenixternal: i'm presuming you found it, but it's in the archive now09:11
=== ..[topic/#kubuntu-devel:Hobbsee] : Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Merge! http://merges.ubuntu.com | Bugs! https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs | KDE 4.0 beta 1 -- http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-beta1.php | FF, UVF Thursday, anything we need updated?
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Riddellanyone able to test amarok 1.4.7 in gutsy and/or fiesty-backports09:38
_StefanS_Riddell: uhm, I can09:38
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_StefanS_Riddell: btw, I'm giving up on that networkstatus thingy, seems like it involves far too much compared to what we get out of it (nice error messages..)09:39
HobbseeRiddell: WFM09:39
Hobbseefor the little that i do with amarok09:39
Riddell"WFM"?09:44
Riddelloh, works for you09:44
Riddellwe need kdebluetooth09:44
Hobbseeyes09:45
Riddellit's blocked on obexftp MIR though09:49
_StefanS_Riddell: so you want me to test that amarok ?09:50
HobbseeRiddell: can you poke someone to do it?09:52
Riddellplease09:52
Hobbseeor just upload it, and let it sit in depwait?09:52
Riddellyes, I'll upload it now09:55
RiddellI've already poked pitti several times09:55
Hobbseehe does go on leave today, though09:56
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HobbseeRiddell: oh, i guess tollef isnt doing any NEW either.09:56
Hobbseehow frustrating09:56
Riddelltoday?09:56
Riddelloh, but only for two days09:56
HobbseeRiddell: wedding.  unknown how long for09:57
Riddellit's two days09:57
HobbseeRiddell: i'd expect that stuff isnt public09:57
Riddellthen he's back for a week09:57
Riddellthen he's on honeymoon, and he's promised me to do it before honeymoon09:57
Riddellwell, if he has any stalkers, this is the place for them to be :)09:57
Hobbseeahhh....09:58
Hobbseeheh09:58
Riddellwhat needs done in New?10:00
Hobbseethe obexftp that you mentioned before?10:01
Riddellneeds a main inclusion report approved10:03
Hobbseeoh, sorry.  that's what i meant.  i think10:04
Riddellthey're for pitti to do, sometimes iwj10:07
Riddellbeta6 uploaded10:07
Hobbseeoh, so my brain is just totally broken.10:07
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_StefanS_Hobbsee: you're not the only one :) - mine has been for a year or so ... gotta get.. some sleep.10:10
_StefanS_Hobbsee: kids.10:10
Hobbseeheh10:10
_StefanS_my wife is one week overdue, and we already have a girl which is turning 1 year this sunday.10:11
Hobbseewow :)10:11
_StefanS_I wouldn't be surprised if it all happened at the same time :-/10:12
_StefanS_He's 4400grams at the moment, so we would like him to come out soon.10:12
_StefanS_Riddell: so you have me on ignore, or should I test that Amarok ? :)10:14
Riddell_StefanS_: please do10:14
_StefanS_Riddell: is it in backports already?10:15
Riddell_StefanS_: yes, should be (1.4.7)10:15
_StefanS_right. testing it now.10:15
_StefanS_Riddell: seems good.10:16
_StefanS_Riddell: mp3's is fine, and visualization works10:17
Hobbseeis there anything else we want shoved in before UVF?10:17
Riddell_StefanS_: great, thanks10:18
_StefanS_I would just like OOo and acroread, nspluginviewer to work. But I guess that someone is working on it10:18
_StefanS_all related to that gtk bug10:19
_StefanS_Riddell: np10:19
Hobbsee_StefanS_: i have an email in my inbox about that, actually.  something about it actually needing to be fixed in the affected apps10:19
Hobbseebut that's post-UVF10:19
Riddellk3b-i18n10:19
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Riddellis old10:19
_StefanS_Hobbsee: I know.. I just dont want anyone to forget about it10:20
Riddellneversfelde|mobi: do you know if kwwii sent you the banner?10:20
Riddellhmm, debian has kmplayer 0.10.0~pre2, I wonder if that's suitable10:20
neversfelde|mobihi10:21
Riddellfabo: is that stable?10:21
neversfelde|mobiRiddell: I have not checked it today, will do in the afternoon10:21
Riddelleek strigiapplet is old10:23
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virgilio hi all, I just installed gutsy alpha 4 and updated all the system. After that I've tried to install kubuntu-desktop package to switch to kubuntu, but the proccess can't start due to a dpendency problems with adept10:51
HobbseeRiddell: yes, adept-notifier does not start now10:53
Hobbseeer, install10:53
Riddellyeah, needs mvo's new update-notifier10:53
virgilioRiddell: ok, I'll wait to the new version10:54
virgiliothanks for the info10:54
Riddellwatch for 0.59.1 appearing10:56
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Riddellkwwii: did you send the banner?11:43
_StefanS_Riddell: did you get that info about networkstatus ? I'm kinda leaving it for now, since it made a lot of issues I think.11:44
_StefanS_Riddell: dont think its worth it11:44
Riddellwhat issues did it make?11:45
_StefanS_Riddell: knetworkmanager stopped working since it depended on stuff in networkstatus11:45
Riddellwhee11:45
_StefanS_Riddell: I havent investigated why exactly.. (1) either a recompile is needed (unlikely) , (2) suse has changes to knetworkmanager that make networkstatus split work also11:46
_StefanS_after that I sort of gave up...11:46
_StefanS_:)11:46
_StefanS_so.....11:47
kwwiiRiddell: no, I never got a response - I will sendit asap if needed11:48
Riddellkwwii: yes, please do (conference is a week on saturday I think, so no mad panic)11:49
kwwiiRiddell: right, I'll head up to the post now then11:49
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kwwiiRiddell: sent12:16
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RiddellScottK: the zekr error means one of the soyuz checks was rejected, but I don't know which one12:31
Riddellthat package did have a tonne of lintian errors though12:31
Riddellor actually no, I'm thinking of another package12:32
\shmoins kwwii12:37
kwwii\sh: moin moin12:37
\shRiddell, anything else which needs updates for gutsy?12:39
Riddell\sh: strigiapplet could do with a sync from debian12:39
Riddellneeds someone to test if the sync is ok12:39
\shRiddell, 0.5.2 from unstable?12:41
Riddellyes12:41
Riddellwhich seems to be above upstream, but never mind12:41
\shbuilding and testing12:41
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Riddelldddddd01:13
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LureHobbsee: update to knetworkmanager 0.2 release would be great before UVF (I did not manage to do it yesterday as I hoped)01:25
HobbseeLure: knetworkmanager | 1:0.2ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources01:25
Hobbsee?01:25
Hobbseeand that's slightly strange versioning...01:25
LureHobbsee: 0.2~r686534-0ubuntu1 here...01:26
Hobbseehm01:27
Riddellit's network-manager-kde now01:28
Hobbseeahhh...01:28
Hobbseetonio's done the weird version number.01:29
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\shRiddell, works01:35
Riddell\sh: great, thanks, I'll do the sync01:36
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Hobbseeoh, not chandru again02:03
Hobbseei remember replying to that thread last time02:03
mhbgood afternoon02:03
Hobbseehi mhb02:03
Riddellwhere?02:03
Hobbseekubuntu devel ML02:04
mhb_StefanS_: thanks for the ideas, I really like the green leaves SVG. Not exactly the thing for the default desktop, but if it would be possible to ship it with other wallpapers, that would be great.02:05
mhb_StefanS_: do you own the copyright to that? Or what license is it?02:05
_StefanS_mhb: uhm I can look it up02:06
_StefanS_mhb: found it somewhere on kdelook I think02:06
_StefanS_mhb: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Palm?content=3770802:07
ScottKRiddell: Thanks for looking into zekr (the failed to upload).  I guess I'll wait and see what gets figured out.02:08
mhb_StefanS_: thanks02:10
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ScarFreewillwhere is up in donlphin?02:23
ScarFreewillah ok I can add it. wil it be released without up in the defualt toolbar?02:24
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RiddellScarFreewill: you can click on the directory you want to go to in the address bar?02:28
ScarFreewillyes I like the way that works very much02:28
ScarFreewillconfusing at first, but I fould my way very fast02:29
HobbseeRiddell: there's a mail for unmoderating on the ML, btw02:29
Hobbseeif you didnt already02:29
Riddellwhich mailing list?  I moderate several dozen02:32
HobbseeRiddell: kubuntu-devel02:34
HobbseeRiddell: (and can i have access to k-d moderation, precisely for this raeson?)02:34
Hobbseeright, listadmin is *really* nice.02:34
_StefanS_bbl..02:35
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Riddellneversfelde|mobi: kwwii says banner is on its way02:40
neversfelde|mobiRiddell: perfect02:41
neversfelde|mobithx02:41
RiddellHobbsee: there's nothing waiting for moderation except spam and mhb's initial posting02:41
HobbseeRiddell: oh right, i thought there was more02:42
Riddellwhat were you expecting?02:42
RiddellI can give you the admin password if you want, or even add you as an admin, but mhb's posting has been the first issue in months except for spam02:43
HobbseeRiddell: and one i posted a while ago02:44
HobbseeRiddell: dunno.  not much.  i just know it's helpful to be able to accses such things02:44
Hobbseeparticularly with the listadmin, which doenst make it such a pain in the neck to do02:44
Riddellwhat's that?02:45
HobbseeRiddell: man listadmin02:45
RiddellNo manual entry for listadmin02:45
Hobbseetry installing it first02:46
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RiddellHobbsee: what's the status of bug 131552?03:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131552 in live-initramfs "Please sync live-initramfs (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13155203:19
HobbseeRiddell: please approve it03:20
HobbseeRiddell: kmos decided to screw around with the bug - a MOTU has filed that.03:20
Hobbsee(siretart)03:20
RiddellHobbsee: the bug doesn't say what the ubuntu change is and why it's ok to drop it03:21
Hobbseesiretart: ^03:21
HobbseeRiddell: siretart, the filer, is also the last uploader, so it should be OK.  but you'd have to take that up with him03:21
RiddellHobbsee: do people go through and confirm archive-admin sync requests?03:38
HobbseeRiddell: for non-MOTU sync requests?  no03:39
HobbseeRiddell: motu's confirm their own requests, obviously03:39
Riddellbut if the request is from a mostly random person?  e.g. bug 130619 is from the debian packager03:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 130619 in ispell-et "Please sync ispell-et (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13061903:41
HobbseeRiddell: then they havent followed protocol, and should be shoved back to u-u-s being subscribed.03:42
HobbseeRiddell: use your discression about the debian maintainer though - but they're not supposed to do that03:42
ScottKIt would be helpful if not just anyone was allowed to subscribe the archive-admins or if motu/core-devs could unsub archive-admin so there we less cruft presented to you guys.03:43
RiddellHobbsee: or ubuntu-main-sponsors?03:44
HobbseeScottK: i think there are plans for that.  somewhere03:44
HobbseeRiddell: yeah03:44
RiddellHobbsee: what is bug 131911 actually asking for?03:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131911 in network-manager "tries to clear nscd hosts cache even when it's not installed" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13191103:46
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HobbseeRiddell: oh...so *that's* why the other bug didnt get closed.  a likely case of "hobbsee cant type bug numbers"03:47
ScarFreewillwhen i right click the desktop, don't click the popupmenu (just click some where else so it disapears) then if you move the mouse its like your holding in click, and the grag bar it makes when your draging doesn't dissapear. does this happen to you too? (kde4)03:49
RiddellI'm not running kde 4 just now03:51
Riddellbut that doesn't sound like a critical bug for kde 4 :)03:51
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ScarFreewillyes :) I'm just wondering if its me because I had to hack more than one deb file to get it installed..03:56
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bddebianHeya03:58
Riddellah, bddebian03:58
Riddellyou filed bug 132598 but didn't set it to confirmed03:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 132598 in marble "[Sync Request Universe]  marble 0.3-2" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13259803:59
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bddebianRiddell: Sorry03:59
Riddellbddebian: but I presume your intention is that it's ok to sync?04:00
bddebianRiddell: Checking to make sure..04:03
HobbseeRiddell: yeah, that's OK04:03
HobbseeRiddell: i filed the dupe04:03
Hobbseebddebian: you do not like the request sync script?04:03
Riddellbddebian: similarly for tkdesk, qca, python-biopython?04:04
bddebianHobbsee: Doesn't work for me currently and no I don't particularly like it :-)04:04
bddebianRiddell: Ah yes04:04
Hobbseebddebian: awww04:04
Riddellthanks04:04
=== bddebian wasn't aware we were supposed to confirm our own sync requests :-(
Hobbseebddebian: unsure.  most people just use the script, y'know.04:05
Riddellbddebian: I don't know either, but it seems easiest if I just have to look for confirmed ones04:06
bddebianMaybe I'm just too old and crusty to do this anymore :-(04:06
Riddell?!04:06
Riddellnot at all04:06
ScottKbddebian: Nah.  Just confirm it.  The archive guys (some of them anyway) only look for certain bug statuses.04:07
ScottKAs an example, I know that pitti will never see a backport request that isn't status "In progress".04:07
bddebianDamn I wish I would've known that because I needed qca to get the new psi in :'-(04:09
HobbseeRiddell: oh, for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ispell-et/+bug/130619 please go and blast him (q-funk) in person on -motu.  he appears to believe that he's exempt from requests or something.04:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 130619 in ispell-et "Please sync ispell-et (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] 04:09
HobbseeRiddell: he bitched loudly at me for telling him that it was unacceptable to do that, but you may have more luck as an archive admin04:09
Riddellbddebian: qca2 has been in for a while04:09
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Hobbseeoh, hmm, he's not online atm.04:10
bddebianRiddell: A high enough version for the psi in Unstable?04:10
Riddellbddebian: same version as debian experimental has04:11
bddebianHmm, weird04:11
Riddellpsi in debian unstable needs qca-dev, which is qca 104:12
bddebianOh I was trying to build the rc2 from Debian Experimental.  Still should have worked?04:12
Riddellshould do, we have libqca2-dev04:12
Riddellmaybe you tried it before we had qca 2 through New04:13
Riddelloh, wait, it's still in New04:13
bddebianhah~!04:13
bddebian:-)04:13
RiddellI have it installed since I packaged and uploaded it, how confusing04:14
Riddellyou'll need to poke someone to approve it04:14
bddebianI hate when that happens04:14
bddebianWell it's too late for new psi now anyway04:14
Riddellseb128 being the only candidate around04:14
Riddellno it's not04:14
bddebianIt's not?04:14
RiddellUVF isn't until this evening04:14
Riddellgrab qca2 from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/04:15
bddebianWell I'm not sure I'm in any position to ask for favors from core-devs :-)04:15
Riddellinstall and test your psi, then upload04:15
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manchicken_We get to find out what gender the baby is today.04:28
Riddellnot keeping it a surprise?04:29
manchicken_Naw, it's hard to set up their Kubuntu machine as pink or blue if you wait ;)04:29
ScottKRiddell: It's always a suprise once.  It's just a question of when you get it.04:30
Riddellso not gender stereotyping him/her at all then :)04:30
ScottKThat and the finding out in advance isn't 100%, so that's sometimes extra fun.04:30
manchicken_Riddell: when did I ever say I wouldn't? :)04:30
siretartRiddell: the ubuntu change in live-initramfs has been merged in debian04:34
siretartRiddell: the only change was dropping the transitional 'casper' binary package04:34
siretartlive-initramfs is used for fai04:34
Riddellsiretart: ok, thanks04:35
Riddellsiretart: fai?04:35
Riddell[BLACKLISTED]  live-initramfs_1.91.4-1ubuntu104:36
siretartRiddell: that can be removed, since the casper binary package has been dropeed04:36
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Riddellgroovy, done04:40
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bddebianOK qca2 is a pig :(04:59
Riddellin which way?05:01
bddebianTaking forever to build :)05:05
Riddellyou have the .debs?05:06
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bddebianNot yet, I'm building them myself05:07
bddebianOf course seb said he New'd it anyway :-)05:07
Riddellwhy not just use the .debs?05:07
bddebianBecause I'm a purist :-)05:08
bddebianActually I think I'm insane05:08
Riddelloh dear05:08
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Riddellyuriy: is this you? http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3085847.msg84477#msg8447705:15
yuriyRiddell: heh, no. i'm GameManK05:15
Riddellok, didn't think so05:19
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bddebianGah screw this05:23
bddebianRiddell: Where can I get at the debs?05:23
bddebianNM, I'll pull them from debian05:26
Riddell15:15 < Riddell> grab qca2 from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/05:34
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bddebianDoh man, I am really out of it today, sorry Riddell05:45
bddebianHoly crap, psi isn't exactly a "quick" build either :)05:53
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Riddellnixternal: grr, now I have flash on my amd64 machine, annoying adverts everywhere thanks to you!06:14
nixternallol06:14
nixternalit worked though right?06:14
nixternalI needed to make sure that it worked for the doco...I am getting ready to update the current package so it can start getting bug reports and translations06:15
Riddellnixternal: certainly did, I wonder why it's so unknown06:21
nixternalI have no idea, I messed around for hours with all of the other howtos and they were a pita06:21
Riddellalso it requires command line use, which should be fixed06:21
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Riddellcan't be hard to fix06:21
nixternalthat could be fixed in the package?06:21
Riddellpostinst script to run nspluginwrapper?06:22
nixternalyup06:22
nixternalhave the script run uname -a, check for x86_64, and if it is true, then run nspluginwrapper06:24
Riddellthen hopefully some dcop can get konqueror to reload its plugins06:27
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nixternalahh ya, forgot about having konqi reload...a reboot would fix that though :)06:41
Riddellerk, reboot?06:41
nixternalhow do you create a .pot file from a .directory or a .desktop file?06:41
nixternalhehe06:41
Riddellhow would that help?06:41
nixternalya, or restart X...konqi reloads all plugins on startup06:41
Riddellso just restart konqi?06:42
jjesseyou can't just force a restart of konqi you have to restart x?06:42
Riddellbut there should be dcop for it06:42
jjessethat seems silly06:42
nixternalno, restarting konqi only restarts the khtml...konqi is preloaded06:42
Riddellalthough that would have to run as the user, so that wouldn't work06:42
nixternalya06:42
jjesseso is konqi as much a part of the "OS" as IE is :)06:42
nixternala dcop call would probably be the easiest06:42
nixternaljjesse: yup :)06:42
nixternalwell no06:42
nixternalit is just preloaded06:42
Riddellnixternal: .desktop in KDE or elsewhere?06:42
nixternalin the docs06:43
nixternalthat way there people will see the translated strings in the KHC sidebar/tree06:43
nixternalI can't believe nobody has ever filed a bug on that06:43
Riddellnixternal: if it's docs then you may be best doing what gnome does (uses intltool) if their docs also have .desktop files06:47
Riddellnixternal: KDE uses /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/createdesktop.pl in ways you can find in /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk06:47
nixternalya, I am reading that now06:47
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nixternalkubuntu-docs building as we, or I, speak :)07:17
kwwiikeep talking then, it might take a while07:18
nixternalhehe07:25
nixternalRiddell: I just uploaded kubuntu-docs updated package to my ppa...man I love that, it allows a nice test before you go an upload it to main...I will keep you updated here shortly07:26
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Riddellgroovy07:31
nixternalif only you could delete the old stuff from your ppa, then it would be perfect07:32
nixternaland I created the pot files for .desktop and .directory07:33
Riddellthat's due to be fixed07:34
Riddellhow did you do that?07:34
nixternalintltool :)07:36
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nixternalcp systemdocs.desktop systemdocs.desktop.in && mkdir po && cd po && echo systemdocs.desktop.in > POTFILES.in && intltool-update --pot --gettext-package=systemdocs07:37
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=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
nixternaldo we have anything that needs to get done asap or something that needs some love right now?07:43
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Riddellpackage qtjambi!07:44
nixternalhaha07:44
Riddellactually, for an easier time, package the qt accessibility bridge and qdasher from labs.trolltech.com07:44
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nixternalya, jambi is no joke07:44
Riddellfrom helio's blog it sounded painful07:45
nixternalI think Mandriva is the only distro with a package so far07:45
nixternalRiddell: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/nixternal/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kubuntu-docs/kubuntu-docs_7.10-2.dsc07:59
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manchicken_It's a girlchicken.08:30
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nixternalmanchicken: CONGRATS!08:34
nixternalRiddell: is there a way to browse Trolltech's svn?08:34
nixternalI am working on the qdbusbridge package right now08:35
manchickenThanks :)08:38
Riddellnixternal: checkout the whole thing08:41
nixternalya, I already have it08:41
nixternalshould I check out just qdbusbridge, or should I check out everything in accessibility?08:41
ScottKmanchicken: Congratulations.  Catch up on sleep now, you won't get any once she's a teenager.08:43
Riddellor baby08:43
nixternalhehe08:43
ScottKThat too.08:43
ScottKDifferent reasons though.08:44
nixternalsleepless nights for a baby doesn't last as long as sleepless nights as a teenager though :)08:44
nixternalmy daughter is approaching "teenager" and I am hating every minute of it08:44
ScottKnixternal: How old?08:45
=== ScottK is ancient and forgot.
nixternal11 in October08:46
ScottKIME (our oldest is 15) the angst peaks around 14 and then the boys kick in.  I don't think it ends until the leave the house.08:47
nixternalouch08:47
nixternalhaha08:47
ScottKYMMV.08:47
nixternalwell at almost 11, my daughter is already boycrazy08:47
nixternalshe keeps asking for a "MySpace" account..I let her know hackers don't use myspace :)08:48
ScottKYes, our oldest was too (#2 at 13 isn't so much).08:48
ScottKnixternal: Look up the terms of service for myspace and then explain she's to young.08:48
ScottKYou have to be 13 to get an account.08:48
ScottKLegally.08:49
nixternalheck no, I told her while she still lives at home, or is under 18, she don't get to have one08:49
ScottKAh.08:49
nixternaland I told her if I find out about one, then her arse is grass, and I am the lawnmower :)08:49
ScottKOur rule for the oldest one is that we have to be on her friends list so we can review it whenever we feel like it.08:49
nixternalit isn't that I don't trust MySpace, it is because I can't stand MySpace08:50
ScottKWe also reserve the right to quiz her about who else is on her list and yank the account if we don't like the answers.08:50
ScottKAh.08:50
ScottKWell I don't like it either.08:50
nixternalI am trying to groom a little hacker here :D08:50
nixternalright now she is annoying me by wanting a Mac08:51
ScottKOf course #2 daughter set up an account while at a friends house last year.  She still has no idea how I found out.08:51
nixternallol08:51
ScottKGet her a Mac and put Kubuntu on it.  That'll show her.08:51
manchickenmhb: I proposed a bounty for the artwork issue.08:51
nixternalwell she runs Edubuntu now08:51
manchickenMy baby will have a System76.08:51
nixternalwhen I head out there for her birthday, I am going to give her Kubuntu with the edubuntu-kde desktop08:52
manchickenThose mini Koalas look pretty badass.08:52
nixternalhehe08:52
nixternalI told her if she completes a grade with all A's, I will get her a Mac08:52
ScottK#2 daughter also still has neither a myspace account nor prospects for one due to her actions last year.08:52
ScottKFacebook is the latest challenge.08:52
nixternalI don't even want to know..I am not looking forward to such actions :)08:53
manchickenNo child of mine will be running proprietary OS' :P08:53
nixternalFacebook I will probably let her do, but I am not hip to these "Social" sites08:53
nixternalmy daughter started out on Slackware when she was 5 :)08:53
nixternalthat is all we had in the house at that time was Slack, then she got a taste of Debian and SUSE08:54
manchickenI just don't see any need to buy an expensive Mac to run GNU/Linux when System76 machines are perfectly reasonable, and they're OEM.08:54
manchickenWe just need to get system76 to start giving more OS options now :)08:54
nixternalso last year I finally built her a new computer and put Edubuntu on it...she has no problem editing sources.list and dist-upgrading now...she is getting quite good actually now08:54
manchickenGood stuff :)08:55
ScottKCool.08:55
manchickenSystem76 says they'll have my order shipped within 4 business days.08:55
nixternalya, but if she is on Kubuntu using KDE, then it is easier for me to help her08:55
ScottKMine aren't so technical.08:55
ScottKAlthough #2 learned a little Python last year.08:58
nixternalhehe08:58
nixternalmy daughter is messing with Logo a little right now08:58
nixternalshe understands the basics of the command line, but she isn't hip to it yet08:58
ScottKI need a little shell scripting help here (speaking of which)...08:58
manchickenI just want my kids to be able to do normal computer tasks.08:58
nixternalI want mine to be lil hax0rz with the elite linux skillz :D08:58
ScottKWhat is in this init is: if [ -n "$SOCKET"] ; then ...08:58
manchickenIf they want to learn programming that's fine, but I just don't want to expose them to software that forbids sharing while at the same time trying to teach them that sharing is a good thing.08:58
ScottKIt's trying to do the then if the variable $SOCKET isn't defined.08:58
ScottKBut that doesn't seem to do it.08:58
ScottKSuggestions?08:58
nixternalhrmm, I have had similar issues in the past when using dash instead of bash08:58
manchicken"" is always defined though, isn't it?08:59
ScottKI think I just got it.08:59
nixternalheh08:59
manchickenWouldn't you want to, instead, do `if [ "$SOCKET" != "" ] ; then`?08:59
ScottKThat would do it.  It works if SOCKET = '', just not if it doesn't exist.08:59
\shScottK,   -n string09:00
\sh              True if the length of string is non-zero.09:00
ScottKSo my mistake was to make it undefined instead of empy.09:00
ScottKCool.09:00
\shScottK, echo "$SOCKET" can give you a hint if $SOCKET is non-zero09:00
\shoh you didn't even define $SOCKET?09:01
ScottKYeah.  That was my mistake was to leave it undefined if I didn't want to specify a non-standard option instead of making it ""09:02
ScottKWhat's the difference between echo "$SOCKET" and echo $SOCKET?09:07
manchickenNot much with echo.09:09
ScottKOK09:09
manchickenYou'll get the same09:09
ScottKHow about in   if [ -n "$SOCKET"] ; then09:09
manchickenThat will always be true.09:10
ScottKAs long as the variable $SOCKET Is defined or always always?09:10
manchickenYou'll want to do if [ -n $SOCKET ] ; then or if [ "$SOCKET" != "" ] ; then09:10
manchickenWell for `if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then` the if will always evaluate true.09:10
manchickenBecause even if socket is undefined, you still get a zero-length string, which is zero-length but still defined none-the-less.09:11
ScottKOK.  I do not undertand at all what the Debian maintainer intended then.09:11
manchicken"" is defined.09:11
=== ScottK gives up on what the Debian maintainer wanted then and decides to make it just work.
ScottKThanks again.09:12
manchickenheh09:12
manchickennp09:12
manchickenStupid reality09:12
\shhmm?09:19
\sh-n means non-zero09:19
\shso if $SOCKET is not defined the term if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then will give you  if [ -n "" ] ; which is false09:20
\shbecause "" is zero string09:20
\shand -n checks against non-zero strings09:20
ScottKWell for some reason it seems not to.09:20
\shScottK, pastebin the whole source somewhere09:21
manchicken\sh: I thought zero-length strings were still non-zero.09:21
\shmanchicken, nope....there is a difference...between -z and -n and a shell var in quotes which is empty will give "" and this is zero string09:22
\shso -z "$SOCKET" would be true while -n "$SOCKET" will give false when $SOCKET is NIL09:22
manchickenAh.09:22
\shs/NIL/NULL/ forgive my pascalism09:22
manchickenSo that's why I ignore shell in favor of Perl ;)09:22
ScottK\sh: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33965/ line 3409:23
\sh-z and -n are stupid string comparison, while == and != are normally arithmetic ones09:24
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\shthis crap init script is holy bullshit09:25
\sh# This can be set via Socket option in config file, so it's not required09:26
\shif [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then09:26
\sh        DAEMON_OPTS="-p $RUNDIR/$NAME.sock $DAEMON_OPTS"09:26
\shfi09:26
\shDAEMON_OPTS="-x /etc/dkim-filter.conf -u $USER -P $RUNDIR/$NAME.pid $DAEMON_OPTS"09:26
\shthis is totally crap...it means the same09:26
ScottKso what I've trying to do is have the default behavior use what's in line 35, so I changed it to http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33966/ and that works.09:26
\shScottK, short question...is -p and -P the same or what does -P differently of -p?09:27
ScottK-p is the socket (TCP or Unix) and -P is the PID file.09:27
\shah09:27
\shso he meant to do this:09:28
\shSOCKET=$RUNDIR/$NAME.sock .... if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then DAEMON_OPTS="-p $SOCKET"09:28
\shlol09:28
\shbut he set SOCKET to $RUNDIR/$NAME.pid which is wrong and needs to PIDFILE and be set at -P line in DAEMON_OPTS09:28
ScottKSo me, being pretty much a shell neophyte, was confused.09:29
ScottKI just knew it wasn't right.09:29
\shScottK, well the line itself is totally useless now, because SOCKET will always be zero (means empty)09:30
\shand the script should never run the then clause09:30
ScottKThat's what I was encountering.09:30
\sh0r it will be set in /etc/default/dkim-filter09:31
\shwhich could mean, $SOCKET is very well defined09:31
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\shwhat I would think he wanted to say with his comment "via Socket option in the config file"09:31
\sh# Include dkim-filter defaults if available09:32
\shif [ -f /etc/default/dkim-filter ]  ; then09:32
\sh        . /etc/default/dkim-filter09:32
\shfi09:32
\sh# This can be set via Socket option in config file, so it's not required09:32
\shif [ -n $SOCKET ] ; then09:32
\sh        DAEMON_OPTS="-p $RUNDIR/$NAME.sock $DAEMON_OPTS"09:32
\shfi09:32
ScottKBy default it's not set in /etc/default.09:32
ScottKhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33967/ is what I have now.09:32
ScottKI changed from a Unix socket to TCP so it'd work with Postfix when chrooted.09:33
\shis it for your own server?09:33
ScottKNo.  It's for Ubuntu09:33
ScottKI'm trying to make the Debian package work properly with Postfix for Ubuntu.09:33
\shyeah, but for packaging or for running on your server?09:33
\shah09:33
ScottKBoth.09:33
ScottKI've got it running now on one of my servers.09:33
\shbut 12345 is the port number which can vary, right?09:34
ScottKYeah.09:34
ScottKI think I used 889109:34
ScottKIt can be anything since it's loopback.09:34
ScottKYou just have to pick the same one in Postfix and in the milter.09:34
ScottKI covered that in the README.Debian.09:34
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\shwhy don't you set in /etc/default/dkim-filter the SOCKET="inet:12345@localhost" and do if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then DAEMON_OPTS="-p $SOCKET $DAEMON_OPTS" else DAEMON_OPTS="-p $RUNDIR/dkim-filter.sock $DAEMON_OPTS" fi09:35
\shwhich means /etc/default/dkim-filter will be sourced into the init script, and if SOCKET="" it will run the else clause, but when SOCKET is set it will run the then clause09:36
ScottKI guess if there is an etc/default it would make sense to actually use one of them as the default.09:36
\shScottK, or use debconf09:36
\shand set it via user decision ;)09:37
ScottKWell there's other stuff they have to do about setting up keys and such so it's not like this would be the only thing.09:37
=== ScottK isn't going to try and debconf the whole thing.
\shScottK, yeah, I read all about domain keys-09:38
\shwe set it up already in our company..very painfull and resource hungry09:38
ScottKDKIM is less painful in some respects.09:38
ScottKIt's at least a little less likely to suffer signature breakage in transit and has fewer implementation specific nits.09:39
ScottKI gave up on DK because it never seemed to work unless the place I was sending to used the same implementation as I did.09:39
ScottKPersonally, I think SPF is more generally useful, but DKIM will have a place and the two are complementary.09:39
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coreymon77hi09:40
\shScottK, spf is also a pain...regarding PR related campaignes, where PR agencies are sending out mails with your header09:40
ScottKAgreed.09:41
ScottKSPF sucks, it just sucks less than the alternatives.09:41
\shScottK, but thinking about sending out 800.000 mails in less then 4 hours, without dkim and only one third of those mails in 4 hours with dkim is argl09:41
Riddellkwwii, nixternal: council dudes, coreymon77 here wants to go for membership but can't make our meeting09:42
nixternalRiddell: -200 ;p09:42
ScottKYeah.09:42
Riddellwould we be ok for him to propose himself over e-mail09:42
nixternaloh, sure :)09:42
coreymon77school starts septemebr 4th, so that causes problems09:42
Riddelland we can ask questions and make a decision at the meeting without him being there09:42
nixternalthat will work09:42
ScottK\sh: Ouch.09:42
kwwiiRiddell: ok by me09:43
nixternalRiddell: you know what might be a good idea, a interview sheet like Debian does for NMs and DDs09:43
kwwiicoreymon77: do you have any info on yourself and what you have done for kubuntu09:43
kwwiilike on the wiki already or such?09:43
coreymon77yes, of course09:44
Riddellcoreymon77: ok, please send an e-mail to kubuntu-devel with your wiki page09:44
coreymon77email address?09:44
Riddellyour wiki page should include your contributions and anything we need to see that you have made a sustained and significant contribution to kubuntu09:44
Riddellkubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com09:45
\shRiddell, btw...congrats to your new duty ;)09:45
Riddellyou need to be a subscriber09:45
Riddellyou should also say why kubuntu is great and why you want to be a member09:45
coreymon77do i need someone to confirm it for me?09:45
nixternaloh ya, congrats to Riddell, our new RM! :)09:45
Riddellcoreymon77: also you should get other members and active community types to e-mail their support (or you can e-mail it for them if they don't want to subscribe)09:46
coreymon77here or in the email?09:46
Riddellin e-mail09:46
Riddellwe'll e-mail back any questions and make a decision at the next meeting09:46
coreymon77well, i believe nixternal himself has seem first hand many of my contributions in the #kubuntu irc channel09:46
coreymon77nixternal: right?09:47
nixternalwho are you again? :p09:48
coreymon77nixternal: i help with wireless problems alot09:48
nixternalheh, wireless is a problem nowadays09:48
coreymon77nixternal: the guy who tells people never to use ndiswrapper unless neccessary09:48
nixternalhey now, I use ndiswrapper, and it has rocked many a wifi cards for me09:49
coreymon77i know09:49
coreymon77it works for many cards09:49
coreymon77but its still unstable09:49
coreymon77if there is a more native way of using the card09:49
coreymon77thats better09:50
coreymon77ive had people trying to use ndiswrapper for atheros cards09:50
coreymon77thats completely uneccessary09:50
ScottK\sh: No suprise to you, I'm sure, but that works.  I'll go with that.09:50
\shScottK, :)09:51
nixternalUbuntu Development Team getting ready to start09:52
nixternalheh, one silly typo has had me going nuts with this package09:52
nixternalif you don't do configure/foo:: correctly, ie mispell foo, you won't get any errors, and you won't get anything to build either :)09:53
coreymon77nixternal: what do i have to put in the email?10:02
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coreymon77Riddell: what do i have to put in the email10:04
Riddellyour wiki page and a few sentences about youself, what you do in kubuntu and why you think kubuntu is the bestest10:04
coreymon77thats all in my wikipage10:04
coreymon77Riddell: all of that stuff is in my wikipage10:05
Riddellwell put 6 words to each point in the e-mail and you're done10:06
coreymon77Riddell: do i just send an email to that address10:07
Riddellyes10:07
Riddellyou must be subscribed as I say10:07
coreymon77Riddell: what was that thing about subscribing?10:07
coreymon77Riddell: how do i subscribe10:09
\shgood night guys10:09
ScottKGood night \sh.  Thanks again.10:09
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
ScottKI just uploaded it.10:09
Riddellhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel10:10
manchickenI'm using kteatime for the first time :)10:11
coreymon77Riddell: okay, i filled out the form, but had it choose a pasword for me10:13
coreymon77Riddell: am i now subscribed, or is there a confirmation email?10:13
ScottKThere's a confirmation.10:13
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coreymon77how long does confirmation take10:15
ScottKUsually it's almost immediate.10:16
coreymon77well its not for me10:19
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coreymon77im not getting the confirmation email10:22
ScottKDid you check your spam folder?10:23
coreymon77yup10:23
coreymon77i use gmail btw10:23
manchickenjjesse: Thanks for closing #96399.  That one was making my head hurt the other day.10:29
jjessemanchicken: your welcome10:30
jjessebug #9639910:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 96399 in adept "Problem adding software through Adept" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9639910:30
jjesseah that one10:30
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nixternalRiddell: don't forget to tell them our oo.o is still broken, as well as nspluginviewer10:52
Riddellnixternal: calc has a fix for openoffice10:59
Riddellnspluginviewer, well, hmm, still hoping suse will fix it11:00
nixternalgroovy, now we just need the nspluginviewer11:00
nixternalahh, waiting for them11:00
Riddellbut it'll still break acroread and opera11:00
nixternalis there a known fix at all?11:00
Riddellwell, unless glib is changed11:00
Riddellif there was a known fix, we'd fix it :)11:00
nixternallovely11:00
coreymon77Riddell: i still havent gotten confirmation for the subscription yet11:07
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coreymon77Riddell: why is that?11:07
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RiddellI've no idea11:09
Riddelltry subscribing again, with a password11:09
coreymon77that worked11:10
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coreymon77Riddell: i take it you dont want personal things about me in the email, just stuff pertaining to linux, right?11:25
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nixternalpersonal is OK, as it gives us an idea of character I guess11:32
coreymon77i tend not to give out that stuff online11:32
Riddellit's not very important11:32
Riddellpeople like to put it on their wiki page11:33
coreymon77you already know that im a student because of the fact that school is the reason that i cant make it to the meeting11:33
Riddellbut it's your contribution to kubuntu we care about11:33
coreymon77thats in the wiki page11:33
Riddell"school" in the US means many things11:33
nixternalcoreymon77: we do want social security number, birth date, and full name though :p11:33
nixternalRiddell: what all does it mean? besides the lingo of "you have just been schooled" :)11:34
Riddellnixternal: well americans use it to mean university and college as well as school11:34
nixternalahh, nm, I think I get it...what kind of school (ie. high school, college, trade, etc.)11:34
nixternalya11:34
coreymon77i will tell you that i am a highschool student11:37
coreymon77from canada11:37
coreymon77thats all can say11:37
coreymon77do you guys want me to copy and paste the approval emails into my application email11:39
coreymon77or do you want me to forward them seperately11:40
coreymon77Riddell: hello?11:41
jjessecoreymon77: i think he might be in bed11:41
coreymon77nixternal: could you answer the question?11:42
Riddellcoreymon77: just copy and paste is fine11:42
coreymon77okh11:42
coreymon77thanks11:42
coreymon77nixternal: nvm11:42
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nixternalI am getting a permission denied when trying to create the directory /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/accessiblebridge with this package...it is starting to annoy me12:04
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coreymon77nixternal: sudo is getting access denied?12:05
coreymon77nixternal: maybe something is being used12:05
Riddellnixternal: you presumably want to make it local to the package rather than the filesystem12:05
nixternalno, this is in the building of a package...no sudo used12:05
nixternalRiddell: I have tried debian/dirs and mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/blahblah/blah12:06
nixternalI think I have found the problem..as a matter of fact, I know I did12:08
nixternalthe Makefile that is created with qmake-qt4 has a DESTDIR = /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/accessiblebridge12:08

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