[12:19] <manchicken> LMAO, Circuit City says they're cool with me testing out this machine with the live CD.
[12:32] <Riddell> nixternal: ping, can you do whatever tidying up is needed and publish http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1085 ?
[02:02] <nixternal> Riddell: posted!
[02:07] <jdong> lastlog jdong
[02:07] <jdong> grr
[02:07] <jdong> Riddell: it's a Ruby-on-rails wrapper over a set of pbuilders, automatically triages backports builds and spits out build logs and i386 debs
[02:07] <jdong> used for testing purposes
[02:10] <nixternal> Riddell: is amarok 1.4.7 being packaged yet? if not, where is the updated tarball?
[02:10] <nixternal> nevermind, found it
[03:16] <nixternal> hey, with Konqueror you don't need to install the java plugin do you?
[03:17] <nixternal> simply installing Sun Java 6 bin works with Konqueror right
[05:56] <kazuma_> hey
[05:56] <kazuma_> stdin
[05:56] <kazuma_> are you there? xD
[05:56] <kazuma_> someone can help me?
[06:00] <robotgeek> kazuma_: for support, please go to #kubuntu
[09:00] <cynics> apachelogger_: congrats  :)
[09:11] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i'm presuming you found it, but it's in the archive now
[09:38] <Riddell> anyone able to test amarok 1.4.7 in gutsy and/or fiesty-backports
[09:38] <_StefanS_> Riddell: uhm, I can
[09:39] <_StefanS_> Riddell: btw, I'm giving up on that networkstatus thingy, seems like it involves far too much compared to what we get out of it (nice error messages..)
[09:39] <Hobbsee> Riddell: WFM
[09:39] <Hobbsee> for the little that i do with amarok
[09:44] <Riddell> "WFM"?
[09:44] <Riddell> oh, works for you
[09:44] <Riddell> we need kdebluetooth
[09:45] <Hobbsee> yes
[09:49] <Riddell> it's blocked on obexftp MIR though
[09:50] <_StefanS_> Riddell: so you want me to test that amarok ?
[09:52] <Hobbsee> Riddell: can you poke someone to do it?
[09:52] <Riddell> please
[09:52] <Hobbsee> or just upload it, and let it sit in depwait?
[09:55] <Riddell> yes, I'll upload it now
[09:55] <Riddell> I've already poked pitti several times
[09:56] <Hobbsee> he does go on leave today, though
[09:56] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, i guess tollef isnt doing any NEW either.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> how frustrating
[09:56] <Riddell> today?
[09:56] <Riddell> oh, but only for two days
[09:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: wedding.  unknown how long for
[09:57] <Riddell> it's two days
[09:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i'd expect that stuff isnt public
[09:57] <Riddell> then he's back for a week
[09:57] <Riddell> then he's on honeymoon, and he's promised me to do it before honeymoon
[09:57] <Riddell> well, if he has any stalkers, this is the place for them to be :)
[09:58] <Hobbsee> ahhh....
[09:58] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:00] <Riddell> what needs done in New?
[10:01] <Hobbsee> the obexftp that you mentioned before?
[10:03] <Riddell> needs a main inclusion report approved
[10:04] <Hobbsee> oh, sorry.  that's what i meant.  i think
[10:07] <Riddell> they're for pitti to do, sometimes iwj
[10:07] <Riddell> beta6 uploaded
[10:07] <Hobbsee> oh, so my brain is just totally broken.
[10:10] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: you're not the only one :) - mine has been for a year or so ... gotta get.. some sleep.
[10:10] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: kids.
[10:10] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:11] <_StefanS_> my wife is one week overdue, and we already have a girl which is turning 1 year this sunday.
[10:11] <Hobbsee> wow :)
[10:12] <_StefanS_> I wouldn't be surprised if it all happened at the same time :-/
[10:12] <_StefanS_> He's 4400grams at the moment, so we would like him to come out soon.
[10:14] <_StefanS_> Riddell: so you have me on ignore, or should I test that Amarok ? :)
[10:14] <Riddell> _StefanS_: please do
[10:15] <_StefanS_> Riddell: is it in backports already?
[10:15] <Riddell> _StefanS_: yes, should be (1.4.7)
[10:15] <_StefanS_> right. testing it now.
[10:16] <_StefanS_> Riddell: seems good.
[10:17] <_StefanS_> Riddell: mp3's is fine, and visualization works
[10:17] <Hobbsee> is there anything else we want shoved in before UVF?
[10:18] <Riddell> _StefanS_: great, thanks
[10:18] <_StefanS_> I would just like OOo and acroread, nspluginviewer to work. But I guess that someone is working on it
[10:19] <_StefanS_> all related to that gtk bug
[10:19] <_StefanS_> Riddell: np
[10:19] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: i have an email in my inbox about that, actually.  something about it actually needing to be fixed in the affected apps
[10:19] <Hobbsee> but that's post-UVF
[10:19] <Riddell> k3b-i18n
[10:19] <Riddell> is old
[10:20] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: I know.. I just dont want anyone to forget about it
[10:20] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: do you know if kwwii sent you the banner?
[10:20] <Riddell> hmm, debian has kmplayer 0.10.0~pre2, I wonder if that's suitable
[10:21] <neversfelde|mobi> hi
[10:21] <Riddell> fabo: is that stable?
[10:21] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: I have not checked it today, will do in the afternoon
[10:23] <Riddell> eek strigiapplet is old
[10:51] <virgilio>  hi all, I just installed gutsy alpha 4 and updated all the system. After that I've tried to install kubuntu-desktop package to switch to kubuntu, but the proccess can't start due to a dpendency problems with adept
[10:53] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, adept-notifier does not start now
[10:53] <Hobbsee> er, install
[10:53] <Riddell> yeah, needs mvo's new update-notifier
[10:54] <virgilio> Riddell: ok, I'll wait to the new version
[10:54] <virgilio> thanks for the info
[10:56] <Riddell> watch for 0.59.1 appearing
[11:43] <Riddell> kwwii: did you send the banner?
[11:44] <_StefanS_> Riddell: did you get that info about networkstatus ? I'm kinda leaving it for now, since it made a lot of issues I think.
[11:44] <_StefanS_> Riddell: dont think its worth it
[11:45] <Riddell> what issues did it make?
[11:45] <_StefanS_> Riddell: knetworkmanager stopped working since it depended on stuff in networkstatus
[11:45] <Riddell> whee
[11:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I havent investigated why exactly.. (1) either a recompile is needed (unlikely) , (2) suse has changes to knetworkmanager that make networkstatus split work also
[11:46] <_StefanS_> after that I sort of gave up...
[11:46] <_StefanS_> :)
[11:47] <_StefanS_> so.....
[11:48] <kwwii> Riddell: no, I never got a response - I will sendit asap if needed
[11:49] <Riddell> kwwii: yes, please do (conference is a week on saturday I think, so no mad panic)
[11:49] <kwwii> Riddell: right, I'll head up to the post now then
[12:16] <kwwii> Riddell: sent
[12:31] <Riddell> ScottK: the zekr error means one of the soyuz checks was rejected, but I don't know which one
[12:31] <Riddell> that package did have a tonne of lintian errors though
[12:32] <Riddell> or actually no, I'm thinking of another package
[12:37] <\sh> moins kwwii
[12:37] <kwwii> \sh: moin moin
[12:39] <\sh> Riddell, anything else which needs updates for gutsy?
[12:39] <Riddell> \sh: strigiapplet could do with a sync from debian
[12:39] <Riddell> needs someone to test if the sync is ok
[12:41] <\sh> Riddell, 0.5.2 from unstable?
[12:41] <Riddell> yes
[12:41] <Riddell> which seems to be above upstream, but never mind
[12:41] <\sh> building and testing
[01:13] <Riddell> dddddd
[01:25] <Lure> Hobbsee: update to knetworkmanager 0.2 release would be great before UVF (I did not manage to do it yesterday as I hoped)
[01:25] <Hobbsee> Lure: knetworkmanager | 1:0.2ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources
[01:25] <Hobbsee> ?
[01:25] <Hobbsee> and that's slightly strange versioning...
[01:26] <Lure> Hobbsee: 0.2~r686534-0ubuntu1 here...
[01:27] <Hobbsee> hm
[01:28] <Riddell> it's network-manager-kde now
[01:28] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[01:29] <Hobbsee> tonio's done the weird version number.
[01:35] <\sh> Riddell, works
[01:36] <Riddell> \sh: great, thanks, I'll do the sync
[02:03] <Hobbsee> oh, not chandru again
[02:03] <Hobbsee> i remember replying to that thread last time
[02:03] <mhb> good afternoon
[02:03] <Hobbsee> hi mhb
[02:03] <Riddell> where?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> kubuntu devel ML
[02:05] <mhb> _StefanS_: thanks for the ideas, I really like the green leaves SVG. Not exactly the thing for the default desktop, but if it would be possible to ship it with other wallpapers, that would be great.
[02:05] <mhb> _StefanS_: do you own the copyright to that? Or what license is it?
[02:06] <_StefanS_> mhb: uhm I can look it up
[02:06] <_StefanS_> mhb: found it somewhere on kdelook I think
[02:07] <_StefanS_> mhb: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Palm?content=37708
[02:08] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks for looking into zekr (the failed to upload).  I guess I'll wait and see what gets figured out.
[02:10] <mhb> _StefanS_: thanks
[02:23] <ScarFreewill> where is up in donlphin?
[02:24] <ScarFreewill> ah ok I can add it. wil it be released without up in the defualt toolbar?
[02:28] <Riddell> ScarFreewill: you can click on the directory you want to go to in the address bar?
[02:28] <ScarFreewill> yes I like the way that works very much
[02:29] <ScarFreewill> confusing at first, but I fould my way very fast
[02:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: there's a mail for unmoderating on the ML, btw
[02:29] <Hobbsee> if you didnt already
[02:32] <Riddell> which mailing list?  I moderate several dozen
[02:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: kubuntu-devel
[02:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: (and can i have access to k-d moderation, precisely for this raeson?)
[02:34] <Hobbsee> right, listadmin is *really* nice.
[02:35] <_StefanS_> bbl..
[02:40] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: kwwii says banner is on its way
[02:41] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: perfect
[02:41] <neversfelde|mobi> thx
[02:41] <Riddell> Hobbsee: there's nothing waiting for moderation except spam and mhb's initial posting
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh right, i thought there was more
[02:42] <Riddell> what were you expecting?
[02:43] <Riddell> I can give you the admin password if you want, or even add you as an admin, but mhb's posting has been the first issue in months except for spam
[02:44] <Hobbsee> Riddell: and one i posted a while ago
[02:44] <Hobbsee> Riddell: dunno.  not much.  i just know it's helpful to be able to accses such things
[02:44] <Hobbsee> particularly with the listadmin, which doenst make it such a pain in the neck to do
[02:45] <Riddell> what's that?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> Riddell: man listadmin
[02:45] <Riddell> No manual entry for listadmin
[02:46] <Hobbsee> try installing it first
[03:19] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what's the status of bug 131552?
[03:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131552 in live-initramfs "Please sync live-initramfs (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131552
[03:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: please approve it
[03:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: kmos decided to screw around with the bug - a MOTU has filed that.
[03:20] <Hobbsee> (siretart)
[03:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: the bug doesn't say what the ubuntu change is and why it's ok to drop it
[03:21] <Hobbsee> siretart: ^
[03:21] <Hobbsee> Riddell: siretart, the filer, is also the last uploader, so it should be OK.  but you'd have to take that up with him
[03:38] <Riddell> Hobbsee: do people go through and confirm archive-admin sync requests?
[03:39] <Hobbsee> Riddell: for non-MOTU sync requests?  no
[03:39] <Hobbsee> Riddell: motu's confirm their own requests, obviously
[03:41] <Riddell> but if the request is from a mostly random person?  e.g. bug 130619 is from the debian packager
[03:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130619 in ispell-et "Please sync ispell-et (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130619
[03:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: then they havent followed protocol, and should be shoved back to u-u-s being subscribed.
[03:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: use your discression about the debian maintainer though - but they're not supposed to do that
[03:43] <ScottK> It would be helpful if not just anyone was allowed to subscribe the archive-admins or if motu/core-devs could unsub archive-admin so there we less cruft presented to you guys.
[03:44] <Riddell> Hobbsee: or ubuntu-main-sponsors?
[03:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i think there are plans for that.  somewhere
[03:44] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah
[03:46] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what is bug 131911 actually asking for?
[03:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131911 in network-manager "tries to clear nscd hosts cache even when it's not installed" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131911
[03:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh...so *that's* why the other bug didnt get closed.  a likely case of "hobbsee cant type bug numbers"
[03:49] <ScarFreewill> when i right click the desktop, don't click the popupmenu (just click some where else so it disapears) then if you move the mouse its like your holding in click, and the grag bar it makes when your draging doesn't dissapear. does this happen to you too? (kde4)
[03:51] <Riddell> I'm not running kde 4 just now
[03:51] <Riddell> but that doesn't sound like a critical bug for kde 4 :)
[03:56] <ScarFreewill> yes :) I'm just wondering if its me because I had to hack more than one deb file to get it installed..
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya
[03:58] <Riddell> ah, bddebian
[03:59] <Riddell> you filed bug 132598 but didn't set it to confirmed
[03:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132598 in marble "[Sync Request Universe]  marble 0.3-2" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132598
[03:59] <bddebian> Riddell: Sorry
[04:00] <Riddell> bddebian: but I presume your intention is that it's ok to sync?
[04:03] <bddebian> Riddell: Checking to make sure..
[04:03] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, that's OK
[04:03] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i filed the dupe
[04:03] <Hobbsee> bddebian: you do not like the request sync script?
[04:04] <Riddell> bddebian: similarly for tkdesk, qca, python-biopython?
[04:04] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Doesn't work for me currently and no I don't particularly like it :-)
[04:04] <bddebian> Riddell: Ah yes
[04:04] <Hobbsee> bddebian: awww
[04:04] <Riddell> thanks
[04:05] <Hobbsee> bddebian: unsure.  most people just use the script, y'know.
[04:06] <Riddell> bddebian: I don't know either, but it seems easiest if I just have to look for confirmed ones
[04:06] <bddebian> Maybe I'm just too old and crusty to do this anymore :-(
[04:06] <Riddell> ?!
[04:06] <Riddell> not at all
[04:07] <ScottK> bddebian: Nah.  Just confirm it.  The archive guys (some of them anyway) only look for certain bug statuses.
[04:07] <ScottK> As an example, I know that pitti will never see a backport request that isn't status "In progress".
[04:09] <bddebian> Damn I wish I would've known that because I needed qca to get the new psi in :'-(
[04:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ispell-et/+bug/130619 please go and blast him (q-funk) in person on -motu.  he appears to believe that he's exempt from requests or something.
[04:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130619 in ispell-et "Please sync ispell-et (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] 
[04:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: he bitched loudly at me for telling him that it was unacceptable to do that, but you may have more luck as an archive admin
[04:09] <Riddell> bddebian: qca2 has been in for a while
[04:10] <Hobbsee> oh, hmm, he's not online atm.
[04:10] <bddebian> Riddell: A high enough version for the psi in Unstable?
[04:11] <Riddell> bddebian: same version as debian experimental has
[04:11] <bddebian> Hmm, weird
[04:12] <Riddell> psi in debian unstable needs qca-dev, which is qca 1
[04:12] <bddebian> Oh I was trying to build the rc2 from Debian Experimental.  Still should have worked?
[04:12] <Riddell> should do, we have libqca2-dev
[04:13] <Riddell> maybe you tried it before we had qca 2 through New
[04:13] <Riddell> oh, wait, it's still in New
[04:13] <bddebian> hah~!
[04:13] <bddebian> :-)
[04:14] <Riddell> I have it installed since I packaged and uploaded it, how confusing
[04:14] <Riddell> you'll need to poke someone to approve it
[04:14] <bddebian> I hate when that happens
[04:14] <bddebian> Well it's too late for new psi now anyway
[04:14] <Riddell> seb128 being the only candidate around
[04:14] <Riddell> no it's not
[04:14] <bddebian> It's not?
[04:14] <Riddell> UVF isn't until this evening
[04:15] <Riddell> grab qca2 from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/
[04:15] <bddebian> Well I'm not sure I'm in any position to ask for favors from core-devs :-)
[04:15] <Riddell> install and test your psi, then upload
[04:28] <manchicken_> We get to find out what gender the baby is today.
[04:29] <Riddell> not keeping it a surprise?
[04:29] <manchicken_> Naw, it's hard to set up their Kubuntu machine as pink or blue if you wait ;)
[04:30] <ScottK> Riddell: It's always a suprise once.  It's just a question of when you get it.
[04:30] <Riddell> so not gender stereotyping him/her at all then :)
[04:30] <ScottK> That and the finding out in advance isn't 100%, so that's sometimes extra fun.
[04:30] <manchicken_> Riddell: when did I ever say I wouldn't? :)
[04:34] <siretart> Riddell: the ubuntu change in live-initramfs has been merged in debian
[04:34] <siretart> Riddell: the only change was dropping the transitional 'casper' binary package
[04:34] <siretart> live-initramfs is used for fai
[04:35] <Riddell> siretart: ok, thanks
[04:35] <Riddell> siretart: fai?
[04:36] <Riddell> [BLACKLISTED]  live-initramfs_1.91.4-1ubuntu1
[04:36] <siretart> Riddell: that can be removed, since the casper binary package has been dropeed
[04:40] <Riddell> groovy, done
[04:59] <bddebian> OK qca2 is a pig :(
[05:01] <Riddell> in which way?
[05:05] <bddebian> Taking forever to build :)
[05:06] <Riddell> you have the .debs?
[05:07] <bddebian> Not yet, I'm building them myself
[05:07] <bddebian> Of course seb said he New'd it anyway :-)
[05:07] <Riddell> why not just use the .debs?
[05:08] <bddebian> Because I'm a purist :-)
[05:08] <bddebian> Actually I think I'm insane
[05:08] <Riddell> oh dear
[05:15] <Riddell> yuriy: is this you? http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3085847.msg84477#msg84477
[05:15] <yuriy> Riddell: heh, no. i'm GameManK
[05:19] <Riddell> ok, didn't think so
[05:23] <bddebian> Gah screw this
[05:23] <bddebian> Riddell: Where can I get at the debs?
[05:26] <bddebian> NM, I'll pull them from debian
[05:34] <Riddell> 15:15 < Riddell> grab qca2 from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/
[05:45] <bddebian> Doh man, I am really out of it today, sorry Riddell
[05:53] <bddebian> Holy crap, psi isn't exactly a "quick" build either :)
[06:14] <Riddell> nixternal: grr, now I have flash on my amd64 machine, annoying adverts everywhere thanks to you!
[06:14] <nixternal> lol
[06:14] <nixternal> it worked though right?
[06:15] <nixternal> I needed to make sure that it worked for the doco...I am getting ready to update the current package so it can start getting bug reports and translations
[06:21] <Riddell> nixternal: certainly did, I wonder why it's so unknown
[06:21] <nixternal> I have no idea, I messed around for hours with all of the other howtos and they were a pita
[06:21] <Riddell> also it requires command line use, which should be fixed
[06:21] <Riddell> can't be hard to fix
[06:21] <nixternal> that could be fixed in the package?
[06:22] <Riddell> postinst script to run nspluginwrapper?
[06:22] <nixternal> yup
[06:24] <nixternal> have the script run uname -a, check for x86_64, and if it is true, then run nspluginwrapper
[06:27] <Riddell> then hopefully some dcop can get konqueror to reload its plugins
[06:41] <nixternal> ahh ya, forgot about having konqi reload...a reboot would fix that though :)
[06:41] <Riddell> erk, reboot?
[06:41] <nixternal> how do you create a .pot file from a .directory or a .desktop file?
[06:41] <nixternal> hehe
[06:41] <Riddell> how would that help?
[06:41] <nixternal> ya, or restart X...konqi reloads all plugins on startup
[06:42] <Riddell> so just restart konqi?
[06:42] <jjesse> you can't just force a restart of konqi you have to restart x?
[06:42] <Riddell> but there should be dcop for it
[06:42] <jjesse> that seems silly
[06:42] <nixternal> no, restarting konqi only restarts the khtml...konqi is preloaded
[06:42] <Riddell> although that would have to run as the user, so that wouldn't work
[06:42] <nixternal> ya
[06:42] <jjesse> so is konqi as much a part of the "OS" as IE is :)
[06:42] <nixternal> a dcop call would probably be the easiest
[06:42] <nixternal> jjesse: yup :)
[06:42] <nixternal> well no
[06:42] <nixternal> it is just preloaded
[06:42] <Riddell> nixternal: .desktop in KDE or elsewhere?
[06:43] <nixternal> in the docs
[06:43] <nixternal> that way there people will see the translated strings in the KHC sidebar/tree
[06:43] <nixternal> I can't believe nobody has ever filed a bug on that
[06:47] <Riddell> nixternal: if it's docs then you may be best doing what gnome does (uses intltool) if their docs also have .desktop files
[06:47] <Riddell> nixternal: KDE uses /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/createdesktop.pl in ways you can find in /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk
[06:47] <nixternal> ya, I am reading that now
[07:17] <nixternal> kubuntu-docs building as we, or I, speak :)
[07:18] <kwwii> keep talking then, it might take a while
[07:25] <nixternal> hehe
[07:26] <nixternal> Riddell: I just uploaded kubuntu-docs updated package to my ppa...man I love that, it allows a nice test before you go an upload it to main...I will keep you updated here shortly
[07:31] <Riddell> groovy
[07:32] <nixternal> if only you could delete the old stuff from your ppa, then it would be perfect
[07:33] <nixternal> and I created the pot files for .desktop and .directory
[07:34] <Riddell> that's due to be fixed
[07:34] <Riddell> how did you do that?
[07:36] <nixternal> intltool :)
[07:37] <nixternal> cp systemdocs.desktop systemdocs.desktop.in && mkdir po && cd po && echo systemdocs.desktop.in > POTFILES.in && intltool-update --pot --gettext-package=systemdocs
[07:43] <nixternal> do we have anything that needs to get done asap or something that needs some love right now?
[07:44] <Riddell> package qtjambi!
[07:44] <nixternal> haha
[07:44] <Riddell> actually, for an easier time, package the qt accessibility bridge and qdasher from labs.trolltech.com
[07:44] <nixternal> ya, jambi is no joke
[07:45] <Riddell> from helio's blog it sounded painful
[07:45] <nixternal> I think Mandriva is the only distro with a package so far
[07:59] <nixternal> Riddell: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/nixternal/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kubuntu-docs/kubuntu-docs_7.10-2.dsc
[08:30] <manchicken_> It's a girlchicken.
[08:34] <nixternal> manchicken: CONGRATS!
[08:34] <nixternal> Riddell: is there a way to browse Trolltech's svn?
[08:35] <nixternal> I am working on the qdbusbridge package right now
[08:38] <manchicken> Thanks :)
[08:41] <Riddell> nixternal: checkout the whole thing
[08:41] <nixternal> ya, I already have it
[08:41] <nixternal> should I check out just qdbusbridge, or should I check out everything in accessibility?
[08:43] <ScottK> manchicken: Congratulations.  Catch up on sleep now, you won't get any once she's a teenager.
[08:43] <Riddell> or baby
[08:43] <nixternal> hehe
[08:43] <ScottK> That too.
[08:44] <ScottK> Different reasons though.
[08:44] <nixternal> sleepless nights for a baby doesn't last as long as sleepless nights as a teenager though :)
[08:44] <nixternal> my daughter is approaching "teenager" and I am hating every minute of it
[08:45] <ScottK> nixternal: How old?
[08:46] <nixternal> 11 in October
[08:47] <ScottK> IME (our oldest is 15) the angst peaks around 14 and then the boys kick in.  I don't think it ends until the leave the house.
[08:47] <nixternal> ouch
[08:47] <nixternal> haha
[08:47] <ScottK> YMMV.
[08:47] <nixternal> well at almost 11, my daughter is already boycrazy
[08:48] <nixternal> she keeps asking for a "MySpace" account..I let her know hackers don't use myspace :)
[08:48] <ScottK> Yes, our oldest was too (#2 at 13 isn't so much).
[08:48] <ScottK> nixternal: Look up the terms of service for myspace and then explain she's to young.
[08:48] <ScottK> You have to be 13 to get an account.
[08:49] <ScottK> Legally.
[08:49] <nixternal> heck no, I told her while she still lives at home, or is under 18, she don't get to have one
[08:49] <ScottK> Ah.
[08:49] <nixternal> and I told her if I find out about one, then her arse is grass, and I am the lawnmower :)
[08:49] <ScottK> Our rule for the oldest one is that we have to be on her friends list so we can review it whenever we feel like it.
[08:50] <nixternal> it isn't that I don't trust MySpace, it is because I can't stand MySpace
[08:50] <ScottK> We also reserve the right to quiz her about who else is on her list and yank the account if we don't like the answers.
[08:50] <ScottK> Ah.
[08:50] <ScottK> Well I don't like it either.
[08:50] <nixternal> I am trying to groom a little hacker here :D
[08:51] <nixternal> right now she is annoying me by wanting a Mac
[08:51] <ScottK> Of course #2 daughter set up an account while at a friends house last year.  She still has no idea how I found out.
[08:51] <nixternal> lol
[08:51] <ScottK> Get her a Mac and put Kubuntu on it.  That'll show her.
[08:51] <manchicken> mhb: I proposed a bounty for the artwork issue.
[08:51] <nixternal> well she runs Edubuntu now
[08:51] <manchicken> My baby will have a System76.
[08:52] <nixternal> when I head out there for her birthday, I am going to give her Kubuntu with the edubuntu-kde desktop
[08:52] <manchicken> Those mini Koalas look pretty badass.
[08:52] <nixternal> hehe
[08:52] <nixternal> I told her if she completes a grade with all A's, I will get her a Mac
[08:52] <ScottK> #2 daughter also still has neither a myspace account nor prospects for one due to her actions last year.
[08:52] <ScottK> Facebook is the latest challenge.
[08:53] <nixternal> I don't even want to know..I am not looking forward to such actions :)
[08:53] <manchicken> No child of mine will be running proprietary OS' :P
[08:53] <nixternal> Facebook I will probably let her do, but I am not hip to these "Social" sites
[08:53] <nixternal> my daughter started out on Slackware when she was 5 :)
[08:54] <nixternal> that is all we had in the house at that time was Slack, then she got a taste of Debian and SUSE
[08:54] <manchicken> I just don't see any need to buy an expensive Mac to run GNU/Linux when System76 machines are perfectly reasonable, and they're OEM.
[08:54] <manchicken> We just need to get system76 to start giving more OS options now :)
[08:54] <nixternal> so last year I finally built her a new computer and put Edubuntu on it...she has no problem editing sources.list and dist-upgrading now...she is getting quite good actually now
[08:55] <manchicken> Good stuff :)
[08:55] <ScottK> Cool.
[08:55] <manchicken> System76 says they'll have my order shipped within 4 business days.
[08:55] <nixternal> ya, but if she is on Kubuntu using KDE, then it is easier for me to help her
[08:55] <ScottK> Mine aren't so technical.
[08:58] <ScottK> Although #2 learned a little Python last year.
[08:58] <nixternal> hehe
[08:58] <nixternal> my daughter is messing with Logo a little right now
[08:58] <nixternal> she understands the basics of the command line, but she isn't hip to it yet
[08:58] <ScottK> I need a little shell scripting help here (speaking of which)...
[08:58] <manchicken> I just want my kids to be able to do normal computer tasks.
[08:58] <nixternal> I want mine to be lil hax0rz with the elite linux skillz :D
[08:58] <ScottK> What is in this init is: if [ -n "$SOCKET"] ; then ...
[08:58] <manchicken> If they want to learn programming that's fine, but I just don't want to expose them to software that forbids sharing while at the same time trying to teach them that sharing is a good thing.
[08:58] <ScottK> It's trying to do the then if the variable $SOCKET isn't defined.
[08:58] <ScottK> But that doesn't seem to do it.
[08:58] <ScottK> Suggestions?
[08:58] <nixternal> hrmm, I have had similar issues in the past when using dash instead of bash
[08:59] <manchicken> "" is always defined though, isn't it?
[08:59] <ScottK> I think I just got it.
[08:59] <nixternal> heh
[08:59] <manchicken> Wouldn't you want to, instead, do `if [ "$SOCKET" != "" ] ; then`?
[08:59] <ScottK> That would do it.  It works if SOCKET = '', just not if it doesn't exist.
[09:00] <\sh> ScottK,   -n string
[09:00] <\sh>               True if the length of string is non-zero.
[09:00] <ScottK> So my mistake was to make it undefined instead of empy.
[09:00] <ScottK> Cool.
[09:00] <\sh> ScottK, echo "$SOCKET" can give you a hint if $SOCKET is non-zero
[09:01] <\sh> oh you didn't even define $SOCKET?
[09:02] <ScottK> Yeah.  That was my mistake was to leave it undefined if I didn't want to specify a non-standard option instead of making it ""
[09:07] <ScottK> What's the difference between echo "$SOCKET" and echo $SOCKET?
[09:09] <manchicken> Not much with echo.
[09:09] <ScottK> OK
[09:09] <manchicken> You'll get the same
[09:09] <ScottK> How about in   if [ -n "$SOCKET"] ; then
[09:10] <manchicken> That will always be true.
[09:10] <ScottK> As long as the variable $SOCKET Is defined or always always?
[09:10] <manchicken> You'll want to do if [ -n $SOCKET ] ; then or if [ "$SOCKET" != "" ] ; then
[09:10] <manchicken> Well for `if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then` the if will always evaluate true.
[09:11] <manchicken> Because even if socket is undefined, you still get a zero-length string, which is zero-length but still defined none-the-less.
[09:11] <ScottK> OK.  I do not undertand at all what the Debian maintainer intended then.
[09:11] <manchicken> "" is defined.
[09:12] <ScottK> Thanks again.
[09:12] <manchicken> heh
[09:12] <manchicken> np
[09:12] <manchicken> Stupid reality
[09:19] <\sh> hmm?
[09:19] <\sh> -n means non-zero
[09:20] <\sh> so if $SOCKET is not defined the term if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then will give you  if [ -n "" ] ; which is false
[09:20] <\sh> because "" is zero string
[09:20] <\sh> and -n checks against non-zero strings
[09:20] <ScottK> Well for some reason it seems not to.
[09:21] <\sh> ScottK, pastebin the whole source somewhere
[09:21] <manchicken> \sh: I thought zero-length strings were still non-zero.
[09:22] <\sh> manchicken, nope....there is a difference...between -z and -n and a shell var in quotes which is empty will give "" and this is zero string
[09:22] <\sh> so -z "$SOCKET" would be true while -n "$SOCKET" will give false when $SOCKET is NIL
[09:22] <manchicken> Ah.
[09:22] <\sh> s/NIL/NULL/ forgive my pascalism
[09:22] <manchicken> So that's why I ignore shell in favor of Perl ;)
[09:23] <ScottK> \sh: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33965/ line 34
[09:24] <\sh> -z and -n are stupid string comparison, while == and != are normally arithmetic ones
[09:25] <\sh> this crap init script is holy bullshit
[09:26] <\sh> # This can be set via Socket option in config file, so it's not required
[09:26] <\sh> if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then
[09:26] <\sh>         DAEMON_OPTS="-p $RUNDIR/$NAME.sock $DAEMON_OPTS"
[09:26] <\sh> fi
[09:26] <\sh> DAEMON_OPTS="-x /etc/dkim-filter.conf -u $USER -P $RUNDIR/$NAME.pid $DAEMON_OPTS"
[09:26] <\sh> this is totally crap...it means the same
[09:26] <ScottK> so what I've trying to do is have the default behavior use what's in line 35, so I changed it to http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33966/ and that works.
[09:27] <\sh> ScottK, short question...is -p and -P the same or what does -P differently of -p?
[09:27] <ScottK> -p is the socket (TCP or Unix) and -P is the PID file.
[09:27] <\sh> ah
[09:28] <\sh> so he meant to do this:
[09:28] <\sh> SOCKET=$RUNDIR/$NAME.sock .... if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then DAEMON_OPTS="-p $SOCKET"
[09:28] <\sh> lol
[09:28] <\sh> but he set SOCKET to $RUNDIR/$NAME.pid which is wrong and needs to PIDFILE and be set at -P line in DAEMON_OPTS
[09:29] <ScottK> So me, being pretty much a shell neophyte, was confused.
[09:29] <ScottK> I just knew it wasn't right.
[09:30] <\sh> ScottK, well the line itself is totally useless now, because SOCKET will always be zero (means empty)
[09:30] <\sh> and the script should never run the then clause
[09:30] <ScottK> That's what I was encountering.
[09:31] <\sh> 0r it will be set in /etc/default/dkim-filter
[09:31] <\sh> which could mean, $SOCKET is very well defined
[09:31] <\sh> what I would think he wanted to say with his comment "via Socket option in the config file"
[09:32] <\sh> # Include dkim-filter defaults if available
[09:32] <\sh> if [ -f /etc/default/dkim-filter ]  ; then
[09:32] <\sh>         . /etc/default/dkim-filter
[09:32] <\sh> fi
[09:32] <\sh> # This can be set via Socket option in config file, so it's not required
[09:32] <\sh> if [ -n $SOCKET ] ; then
[09:32] <\sh>         DAEMON_OPTS="-p $RUNDIR/$NAME.sock $DAEMON_OPTS"
[09:32] <\sh> fi
[09:32] <ScottK> By default it's not set in /etc/default.
[09:32] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33967/ is what I have now.
[09:33] <ScottK> I changed from a Unix socket to TCP so it'd work with Postfix when chrooted.
[09:33] <\sh> is it for your own server?
[09:33] <ScottK> No.  It's for Ubuntu
[09:33] <ScottK> I'm trying to make the Debian package work properly with Postfix for Ubuntu.
[09:33] <\sh> yeah, but for packaging or for running on your server?
[09:33] <\sh> ah
[09:33] <ScottK> Both.
[09:33] <ScottK> I've got it running now on one of my servers.
[09:34] <\sh> but 12345 is the port number which can vary, right?
[09:34] <ScottK> Yeah.
[09:34] <ScottK> I think I used 8891
[09:34] <ScottK> It can be anything since it's loopback.
[09:34] <ScottK> You just have to pick the same one in Postfix and in the milter.
[09:34] <ScottK> I covered that in the README.Debian.
[09:35] <\sh> why don't you set in /etc/default/dkim-filter the SOCKET="inet:12345@localhost" and do if [ -n "$SOCKET" ] ; then DAEMON_OPTS="-p $SOCKET $DAEMON_OPTS" else DAEMON_OPTS="-p $RUNDIR/dkim-filter.sock $DAEMON_OPTS" fi
[09:36] <\sh> which means /etc/default/dkim-filter will be sourced into the init script, and if SOCKET="" it will run the else clause, but when SOCKET is set it will run the then clause
[09:36] <ScottK> I guess if there is an etc/default it would make sense to actually use one of them as the default.
[09:36] <\sh> ScottK, or use debconf
[09:37] <\sh> and set it via user decision ;)
[09:37] <ScottK> Well there's other stuff they have to do about setting up keys and such so it's not like this would be the only thing.
[09:38] <\sh> ScottK, yeah, I read all about domain keys-
[09:38] <\sh> we set it up already in our company..very painfull and resource hungry
[09:38] <ScottK> DKIM is less painful in some respects.
[09:39] <ScottK> It's at least a little less likely to suffer signature breakage in transit and has fewer implementation specific nits.
[09:39] <ScottK> I gave up on DK because it never seemed to work unless the place I was sending to used the same implementation as I did.
[09:39] <ScottK> Personally, I think SPF is more generally useful, but DKIM will have a place and the two are complementary.
[09:40] <coreymon77> hi
[09:40] <\sh> ScottK, spf is also a pain...regarding PR related campaignes, where PR agencies are sending out mails with your header
[09:41] <ScottK> Agreed.
[09:41] <ScottK> SPF sucks, it just sucks less than the alternatives.
[09:41] <\sh> ScottK, but thinking about sending out 800.000 mails in less then 4 hours, without dkim and only one third of those mails in 4 hours with dkim is argl
[09:42] <Riddell> kwwii, nixternal: council dudes, coreymon77 here wants to go for membership but can't make our meeting
[09:42] <nixternal> Riddell: -200 ;p
[09:42] <ScottK> Yeah.
[09:42] <Riddell> would we be ok for him to propose himself over e-mail
[09:42] <nixternal> oh, sure :)
[09:42] <coreymon77> school starts septemebr 4th, so that causes problems
[09:42] <Riddell> and we can ask questions and make a decision at the meeting without him being there
[09:42] <nixternal> that will work
[09:42] <ScottK> \sh: Ouch.
[09:43] <kwwii> Riddell: ok by me
[09:43] <nixternal> Riddell: you know what might be a good idea, a interview sheet like Debian does for NMs and DDs
[09:43] <kwwii> coreymon77: do you have any info on yourself and what you have done for kubuntu
[09:43] <kwwii> like on the wiki already or such?
[09:44] <coreymon77> yes, of course
[09:44] <Riddell> coreymon77: ok, please send an e-mail to kubuntu-devel with your wiki page
[09:44] <coreymon77> email address?
[09:44] <Riddell> your wiki page should include your contributions and anything we need to see that you have made a sustained and significant contribution to kubuntu
[09:45] <Riddell> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[09:45] <\sh> Riddell, btw...congrats to your new duty ;)
[09:45] <Riddell> you need to be a subscriber
[09:45] <Riddell> you should also say why kubuntu is great and why you want to be a member
[09:45] <coreymon77> do i need someone to confirm it for me?
[09:45] <nixternal> oh ya, congrats to Riddell, our new RM! :)
[09:46] <Riddell> coreymon77: also you should get other members and active community types to e-mail their support (or you can e-mail it for them if they don't want to subscribe)
[09:46] <coreymon77> here or in the email?
[09:46] <Riddell> in e-mail
[09:46] <Riddell> we'll e-mail back any questions and make a decision at the next meeting
[09:46] <coreymon77> well, i believe nixternal himself has seem first hand many of my contributions in the #kubuntu irc channel
[09:47] <coreymon77> nixternal: right?
[09:48] <nixternal> who are you again? :p
[09:48] <coreymon77> nixternal: i help with wireless problems alot
[09:48] <nixternal> heh, wireless is a problem nowadays
[09:48] <coreymon77> nixternal: the guy who tells people never to use ndiswrapper unless neccessary
[09:49] <nixternal> hey now, I use ndiswrapper, and it has rocked many a wifi cards for me
[09:49] <coreymon77> i know
[09:49] <coreymon77> it works for many cards
[09:49] <coreymon77> but its still unstable
[09:49] <coreymon77> if there is a more native way of using the card
[09:50] <coreymon77> thats better
[09:50] <coreymon77> ive had people trying to use ndiswrapper for atheros cards
[09:50] <coreymon77> thats completely uneccessary
[09:50] <ScottK> \sh: No suprise to you, I'm sure, but that works.  I'll go with that.
[09:51] <\sh> ScottK, :)
[09:52] <nixternal> Ubuntu Development Team getting ready to start
[09:52] <nixternal> heh, one silly typo has had me going nuts with this package
[09:53] <nixternal> if you don't do configure/foo:: correctly, ie mispell foo, you won't get any errors, and you won't get anything to build either :)
[10:02] <coreymon77> nixternal: what do i have to put in the email?
[10:04] <coreymon77> Riddell: what do i have to put in the email
[10:04] <Riddell> your wiki page and a few sentences about youself, what you do in kubuntu and why you think kubuntu is the bestest
[10:04] <coreymon77> thats all in my wikipage
[10:05] <coreymon77> Riddell: all of that stuff is in my wikipage
[10:06] <Riddell> well put 6 words to each point in the e-mail and you're done
[10:07] <coreymon77> Riddell: do i just send an email to that address
[10:07] <Riddell> yes
[10:07] <Riddell> you must be subscribed as I say
[10:07] <coreymon77> Riddell: what was that thing about subscribing?
[10:09] <coreymon77> Riddell: how do i subscribe
[10:09] <\sh> good night guys
[10:09] <ScottK> Good night \sh.  Thanks again.
[10:09] <ScottK> I just uploaded it.
[10:10] <Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
[10:11] <manchicken> I'm using kteatime for the first time :)
[10:13] <coreymon77> Riddell: okay, i filled out the form, but had it choose a pasword for me
[10:13] <coreymon77> Riddell: am i now subscribed, or is there a confirmation email?
[10:13] <ScottK> There's a confirmation.
[10:15] <coreymon77> how long does confirmation take
[10:16] <ScottK> Usually it's almost immediate.
[10:19] <coreymon77> well its not for me
[10:22] <coreymon77> im not getting the confirmation email
[10:23] <ScottK> Did you check your spam folder?
[10:23] <coreymon77> yup
[10:23] <coreymon77> i use gmail btw
[10:29] <manchicken> jjesse: Thanks for closing #96399.  That one was making my head hurt the other day.
[10:30] <jjesse> manchicken: your welcome
[10:30] <jjesse> bug #96399
[10:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 96399 in adept "Problem adding software through Adept" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96399
[10:30] <jjesse> ah that one
[10:52] <nixternal> Riddell: don't forget to tell them our oo.o is still broken, as well as nspluginviewer
[10:59] <Riddell> nixternal: calc has a fix for openoffice
[11:00] <Riddell> nspluginviewer, well, hmm, still hoping suse will fix it
[11:00] <nixternal> groovy, now we just need the nspluginviewer
[11:00] <nixternal> ahh, waiting for them
[11:00] <Riddell> but it'll still break acroread and opera
[11:00] <nixternal> is there a known fix at all?
[11:00] <Riddell> well, unless glib is changed
[11:00] <Riddell> if there was a known fix, we'd fix it :)
[11:00] <nixternal> lovely
[11:07] <coreymon77> Riddell: i still havent gotten confirmation for the subscription yet
[11:07] <coreymon77> Riddell: why is that?
[11:09] <Riddell> I've no idea
[11:09] <Riddell> try subscribing again, with a password
[11:10] <coreymon77> that worked
[11:25] <coreymon77> Riddell: i take it you dont want personal things about me in the email, just stuff pertaining to linux, right?
[11:32] <nixternal> personal is OK, as it gives us an idea of character I guess
[11:32] <coreymon77> i tend not to give out that stuff online
[11:32] <Riddell> it's not very important
[11:33] <Riddell> people like to put it on their wiki page
[11:33] <coreymon77> you already know that im a student because of the fact that school is the reason that i cant make it to the meeting
[11:33] <Riddell> but it's your contribution to kubuntu we care about
[11:33] <coreymon77> thats in the wiki page
[11:33] <Riddell> "school" in the US means many things
[11:33] <nixternal> coreymon77: we do want social security number, birth date, and full name though :p
[11:34] <nixternal> Riddell: what all does it mean? besides the lingo of "you have just been schooled" :)
[11:34] <Riddell> nixternal: well americans use it to mean university and college as well as school
[11:34] <nixternal> ahh, nm, I think I get it...what kind of school (ie. high school, college, trade, etc.)
[11:34] <nixternal> ya
[11:37] <coreymon77> i will tell you that i am a highschool student
[11:37] <coreymon77> from canada
[11:37] <coreymon77> thats all can say
[11:39] <coreymon77> do you guys want me to copy and paste the approval emails into my application email
[11:40] <coreymon77> or do you want me to forward them seperately
[11:41] <coreymon77> Riddell: hello?
[11:41] <jjesse> coreymon77: i think he might be in bed
[11:42] <coreymon77> nixternal: could you answer the question?
[11:42] <Riddell> coreymon77: just copy and paste is fine
[11:42] <coreymon77> okh
[11:42] <coreymon77> thanks
[11:42] <coreymon77> nixternal: nvm
[12:04] <nixternal> I am getting a permission denied when trying to create the directory /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/accessiblebridge with this package...it is starting to annoy me
[12:05] <coreymon77> nixternal: sudo is getting access denied?
[12:05] <coreymon77> nixternal: maybe something is being used
[12:05] <Riddell> nixternal: you presumably want to make it local to the package rather than the filesystem
[12:05] <nixternal> no, this is in the building of a package...no sudo used
[12:06] <nixternal> Riddell: I have tried debian/dirs and mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/blahblah/blah
[12:08] <nixternal> I think I have found the problem..as a matter of fact, I know I did
[12:08] <nixternal> the Makefile that is created with qmake-qt4 has a DESTDIR = /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/accessiblebridge