[12:38] <thumper> mdke: not yet but soon
[12:39] <thumper> mdke: right now, every branch stored in launchpad is complete by itself
[12:39] <thumper> very handy for isolation, but not so good for efficiency or speed
[12:39] <thumper> mdke: changes are planned
[01:36] <takdir> i have a problem
[01:36] <takdir> how to solve this problem
[01:36] <takdir> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  Try using "merge" and then "push".
[01:59] <mayeco> meeting today?
[05:30] <mpt> Gooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[06:36] <ubotu> New bug: #132860 in Launchpad Bugs "Package details portlet missing from bug page on edge (and presumably 1.1.8)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132860
[06:45] <ubotu> New bug: #132863 in Launchpad Bugs "New (1.1.8) UI to open BugTask edit form is a readability regression" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132863
[08:30] <ubotu> New bug: #132869 in launchpad-bazaar "bzr://bazaar.launchpad.net/ times out" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132869
[08:35] <lifeless> mpt: 1394 4266 - same, total.
[08:36] <mpt> thanks lifeless 
[08:40] <lifeless> np
[08:55] <matkor> Hi. When adding my branch to project (https://code.launchpad.net/bzr-gtk/+addbranch) what should I put in "Branch URL" - I would like branch to be hosted on launchpad TIA
[08:58] <matkor> Actually I have changes of trunk branch of bzr-gtk on my laptop - but I was asked to publish the branch somewhere with best option being launchpad
[08:59] <RAOF> Then you should just be able to push it.
[08:59] <RAOF> You don't need to register it beforehand.
[09:00] <RAOF> matkor: "bzr push sftp://lpnick@bazaar.launchpad.net/~lpnick/project/branch-name" is what you're after.
[09:00] <Hobbsee> RAOF: you need to register the project, but can leave the URL blank
[09:01] <RAOF> Hobbsee: True, but bzr-gtk is already registered.
[09:01] <RAOF> (I'm pretty sure)
[09:01] <Hobbsee> RAOF: ah, right.  yes
[09:01] <Hobbsee> RAOF: i'd not looked at which specific project it was
[09:01] <RAOF> Hobbsee: :)
[09:01] <Hobbsee> yes, you can just bzr push, as said above
[09:02] <Hobbsee> RAOF: since when am i known to read *all* lines?
[09:02] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Since you became core-dev, on the release team, and generally with awesome powers.
[09:02] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Also, the ability to command sea-creatures.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> RAOF: ah right.
[09:03] <matkor> RAOF: So should I put "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr-gtk/trunk-matkor" as Branch URL in "Register a branch" webpage , right ?
[09:03] <Spads> RAOF: Ability to telepathically communicate with corn.
[09:03] <RAOF> matkor: Um, you could.  I generally just push first, ask questions later :)
[09:04] <matkor> ok ;)
[09:05] <Hobbsee> greetings, Spads 
[09:06] <Spads> morning, Hobbsee 
[09:19] <thumper> matkor: no
[09:19] <thumper> matkor: currently the register a branch is solely to register a mirrored branch
[09:19] <thumper> matkor: to create a hosted branch (right now) you just push it up
[09:23] <Spads> When you push a branch up to your personal bazaar.lp.n space, can you push it up to just any old project directory at all, or do you need to be a member of the project?
[09:24] <matkor> thumper: OK. Thank you very much ! I got it now.
[09:38] <jamesh> Spads: any project
[09:39] <jamesh> Spads: you didn't need permission to make your changes, so it'd be a bit silly if you needed permission to publish them :)
[09:42] <Spads> jamesh: okay, the reason I ask is that i tried to help someone test out hosted branches, and he had trouble pushing.  I suspected it was a problem with his key, but worried that it might be that I had access he didn't.  Thanks.
[09:53] <mdke> thumper: great, thanks for the information
[09:54] <Hobbsee> morning mrevell 
[09:54] <mrevell> Morning Hobbsee
[09:55] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:57] <carlos> morning
[09:57] <Hobbsee> morning carlos!
[10:59] <mdamt> How long a bzr branch can be viewed from the launchpad after it is pushed?
[11:00] <mdamt> One of my team pushed his branch but the launchpad says "     Launchpad could not mirror this branch     1 hours ago.            The error was:       Not a branch: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/gnome-panel"
[11:00] <mdamt> Tried using bzr cli also the same.
[11:00] <mwhudson> argh
[11:00] <mwhudson> mdamt: congratulations, you have been confused by launchpad
[11:00] <mdamt> :-)
[11:01] <mwhudson> where is the branch?
[11:01] <mdamt> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/gnome-panel
[11:02] <mdamt> Yesterday we got the same error for different branch, but at night I tried again to branch it using bzr cli and it was succesfull. (But that was after about > 5 hours waiting)
[11:06] <mwhudson> oh
[11:09] <mwhudson> mdamt: did your team member get disconnected while pushing or something?
[11:09] <mwhudson> the data is there, but it's not been published correctly for some reason
[11:10] <mwhudson> if you're in the team, you can probably access it via the sftp url
[11:11] <mdamt> No, he pushed throughly without problems.
[11:12] <mdamt> Yes I can see the .bzr folder.
[11:13] <mdamt> But what is .bzr without bzr :-)
[11:14] <mwhudson> well, you can do
[11:14] <mwhudson> bzr get sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/gnome-panel
[11:14] <mwhudson> this is all very unsatisfactory though
[11:14] <mwhudson> we're working on making this publishing process more reliable
[11:15] <mdamt> What's the difference with the "branch" command?
[11:15] <mwhudson> nothing
[11:15] <mdamt> I don't see the "get" in manpage.
[11:15] <mwhudson> they're synonyms
[11:16] <mdamt> But why bzr branch fails?
[11:16] <mwhudson> it does?
[11:16] <thumper> mwhudson: suggest bzr+ssh
[11:16] <mdamt> Yes, bzr branch http://.... fails. Is this because the http is out-of.sync?
[11:16] <thumper> mdamt: what's your lp id?
[11:17] <mwhudson> mdamt: yes
[11:17] <mdamt> thumper: mdamt
[11:17] <mdamt> Ah ok.
[11:17] <mdamt> That explains it.
[11:17] <thumper> bzr branch bzr+ssh://mdamt@bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/gnome-panel
[11:17] <thumper> mdamt: see if that works
[11:18] <mwhudson> mdamt: the http:// mirror will get updated though it might take 6 hours for it to be tried again :(
[11:18] <mdamt> thumper: It works. Thanks.
[11:18] <thumper> mdamt: good
[11:18] <mdamt> Ok guys thanks alot.
[11:18] <mdamt> Now I should tell my build robot to use bzr+ssh instead of http.
[11:18] <mdamt> Thanks again, you rock!
[12:28] <Belutz> hi all
[12:28] <Belutz> i get errors when i do bzr commit
[12:28] <Belutz> the error is like this:
[12:28] <Belutz> belutz@foss-id:~/blankon/paket-siap-bangun$ bzr commit
[12:28] <Belutz> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.UnlockableTransport: Cannot lock: transport is read only: <bzrlib.transport.http._pycurl.PyCurlTransport url=http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/paket-siap-bangun/.bzr/repository/>
[12:29] <Belutz> what may cause that?
[12:30] <mwhudson> you typed "bzr co lp:something" ?
[12:31] <mwhudson> essentially your branch is bound (do you know what this means?) to another branch that is accessed over a read-only transport
[12:31] <Belutz> mwhudson, yes i did
[12:31] <mwhudson> i think typing 'bzr bind sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/paket-siap-bangun' should sort you out
[12:32] <Belutz> ok, let me try first
[12:32] <mwhudson> if you really want a bound branch that is, and didn't just type "co" because it's what you do with svn
[12:33] <Belutz> sorry i clicked the wrong button 
[12:38] <mwhudson> i was a little surprised :)
[12:38] <Belutz> mwhudson, it works :)
[12:38] <Belutz> mwhudson, thanks :)
[12:42] <mwhudson> Belutz: cool
[12:42] <mwhudson> at some point, pushing to lp:// urls should work
[12:44] <Belutz> mwhudson, you means that instead of commit i could just push it ?
[12:46] <mwhudson> um no
[12:46] <mwhudson> well, that is true, but it's not what i meant
[12:47] <jamesh> Belutz: currently an lp: URL resolves to a read-only location
[12:48] <Belutz> ah, that's why we have to push using sftp:// right?
[12:48] <mwhudson> yes
[12:49] <Belutz> so, can i do bzr co sftp:// ?
[12:51] <jamesh> Belutz: yes
[12:52] <mwhudson> 'bzr co' sort of combines two steps
[12:53] <mwhudson> 'bzr co url dir' == 'bzr branch url dir; cd dir; bzr bind url'
[12:53] <Belutz> ah
[12:53] <mwhudson> you can think of 'svn co' as being kind of similar, but svn working trees are always associated with a remote repository, so it seems a bit forced there
[12:54] <Belutz> i see
[12:55] <Belutz> thanks for the info :)
[12:56] <mwhudson> i hope i'm not being too confusing
[12:56] <mwhudson> bzr can behave quite like svn, which is great when it's what you want
[12:56] <mwhudson> but i worry that sometimes people start using it this way basically by accident
[12:57] <Belutz> actually i have never use svn before 
[12:57] <mwhudson> oh ok
[12:58] <mwhudson> congratulations :)
[01:02] <Belutz> :D
[03:30] <ubotu> New bug: #132925 in blueprint "OOPS adding dependency to a distribution blueprint" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132925
[03:37] <takdir> but i got this message
[03:37] <takdir> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.UnlockableTransport: Cannot lock: transport is read only: <bzrlib.transport.http._urllib.HttpTransport_urllib url=http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/paket-siap-bangun/.bzr/repository/>
[03:37] <takdir> how to solve that problem ?
[03:38] <takdir> Traceback (most recent call last):
[03:38] <takdir>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 729, in run_bzr_catch_errors
[03:38] <takdir>     return run_bzr(argv)
[03:38] <takdir>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 691, in run_bzr
[03:38] <takdir>     ret = run(*run_argv)
[03:38] <takdir> ect ..
[03:39] <jamesh> takdir: from the sound of it, you've created a checkout of a read-only location
[03:40] <jamesh> takdir: it is possible to unbind the branch so that you can commit.  You can then publish the branch to some other location
[03:41] <jamesh> takdir: actually, by the look of it you are a member of the team who owns the branch
[03:42] <jamesh> takdir: try the following two commands:
[03:42] <jamesh> bzr unbind
[03:42] <jamesh> bzr bind sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~blankon-pemaket/blankon/paket-siap-bangun
[03:48] <takdir> jamesh: thx .. it's work :)
[03:49] <jamesh> takdir: out of interest, how did you create your local branch?
[03:50] <jamesh> takdir: we'd prefer it if people didn't run into your error, so there might be something we can improve
[03:52] <takdir> bzr init --format=dirstate-tags
[03:54] <takdir> after i push ... i've got this message :
[03:54] <takdir> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  Try using "merge" and then "push". 
[04:00] <bigjools> cough
[04:00] <sinzu1> Turn your head and cough.
[04:00] <bigjools> apologies!
[04:01] <Rinchen> me
[04:01] <carlos> Rinchen: too fast!
[04:01] <carlos> :-P
[04:01] <schwuk> Rinchen: you'll set everyone off!
[04:01] <Rinchen> sorry, just clearing my throat
[04:01] <ddaa> him
[04:01] <Rinchen> SteveA 
[04:02] <shirish> Is the launchpad users happening now or there is still time
[04:02] <barry> way to go Rinchen, running sinzui off like that :)
[04:02] <Rinchen> shirish, yep, we're just about to get started
[04:02] <Rinchen> er
[04:02] <matsubara> shirish: the users meeting was yesterday. today is the developers meeting
[04:02] <mrevell> shirish: This is the Launchpad developer's meeting. user's meeting was yesterday.
[04:02] <Rinchen> Yeah, ^^
[04:02] <schwuk> barry: you summoned him!
[04:02] <shirish> drats missed
[04:02] <mrevell> shirish: No worries, mail me with anything you'd like to raise - or PM me -
[04:02] <mrevell> oh, you've gone
[04:03] <barry> schwuk: just a small display of my awesome irc powers :)
[04:03] <Rinchen> SteveA 
[04:04] <schwuk> barry: see if you can summon a meeting then :)
[04:04] <ddaa> Rinchen: you ring him?
[04:04] <Rinchen> good idea ddaa
[04:04] <bigjools> barry doing his Hiro impression huh? :)
[04:04] <mpt> We can summon SteveA if we all think really nice thoughts
[04:04] <gmb> Don't strain anything, Barry
[04:04] <schwuk> bigjools: lol
[04:04] <bigjools> lol
[04:04] <gmb> Oh, someone brought a seal to the meeting.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> awww, an otter would have been far more fun!
[04:05] <mrevell> ddaa: baby jebus?
[04:05] <barry> i think there's a law that says when a meeting gets too silly, it's over
[04:05] <ddaa> mrevell: you do not want to know
[04:05] <gmb> ddaa: I really hope you aren't thinking of what I think you're thinking of.
[04:05] <schwuk> gmb: it was in case we needed anything approved
[04:05] <barry> Hobbsee: we saw some excellent otters at the madison WI zoo!
[04:05] <ddaa> gmb: I am afraid I am.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> barry: :D
[04:05] <gmb> Oh, dear.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> barry: sounds good.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> barry: @ the law
[04:06] <bigjools> I've got a water 'otter in my kitchen
[04:06] <Rinchen> mpt, SteveA is having connection difficulties at the moment. Would you care to start us off until he gets sorted?
[04:06] <mpt> sure
[04:06] <mpt> MEETING TIME
[04:06] <Hobbsee> bigjools: bring it in, it'll provide some good entertainment for the meeting
[04:06] <Rinchen> Thank you sir
[04:06] <mpt> Thank you for all waiting patiently
[04:06] <schwuk> me
[04:06] <mpt> For the next 40 minutes or so we'll be discussing Launchpad development
[04:06] <jsk> me
[04:06] <mpt> Except for schwuk and jsk, who is here?
[04:06] <bigjools> Hobbsee: It's a kettle - geddit?  water 'otter? .... :)
[04:06] <gmb> me
[04:06] <Rinchen> me
[04:06] <statik> me
[04:06] <barry> me
[04:06] <matsubara> me
[04:06] <ddaa> me
[04:06] <bigjools> me
[04:06] <carlos> me
[04:06] <mthaddon> me
[04:06] <salgado> me
[04:06] <Hobbsee> bigjools: :)
[04:06] <mrevell> me
[04:06] <sinzui> me
[04:06] <allenap> me
[04:06] <adeuring> me
[04:06] <mwhudson> me
[04:07] <udienz_> me
[04:07] <carlos> mpt: jtv SMS me to say he will be late
[04:07] <cprov> me
[04:07] <Hobbsee> not me.  me from the salmon.
[04:07] <carlos> danilos: ?
[04:07] <danilos> me
[04:07] <jamesh> me
[04:07] <intellectronica> me
[04:08] <mpt> == Apologies ==
[04:08] <matsubara> stub: ?
[04:08] <mpt> BjornT is excused
[04:08] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[04:08] <mdamt> meh
[04:08] <stub> me
[04:08] <carlos> jtv: just in time :-P
[04:08] <mpt> hi jtv
[04:08] <danilos> (intellectronica should apologize for widening my xchat nick column)
[04:08] <mrevell> wow, we're a huge team, look at all that meeeeeing
[04:08] <jtv> for once, all internet shops in bangkok are closed...
[04:08] <mpt> == Agenda ==
[04:08] <mpt>  * Next meeting
[04:08] <mpt>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:08] <mpt>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:08] <mpt>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:08] <mpt>  * Bug tags
[04:08] <schwuk> mrevell: we're like rabbits!
[04:08] <mpt>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:09] <mpt>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:09] <mpt>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:09] <mpt>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:09] <mpt>  * 1k branch limits - barry
[04:09] <gmb> schwuk: Stay away from me at allhands, k?
[04:09] <mpt>  * Blockers
[04:09] <SteveA> hi
[04:09] <mpt> == Next meeting ==
[04:09] <mpt> hi SteveA 
[04:09] <SteveA> actually, you're doing a good job.  why don't you continue?
[04:10] <mpt> ok
[04:10] <Rinchen> mpt, makes a great meetinb chair :-)
[04:10] <mpt> So, next meeting
[04:10] <mpt> If anyone here today knows of any reason why we should not hold the next meeting same time next week, let him speak now, or forever hold his peace.
[04:11] <ddaa> Rinchen: SteveA has more stuffing
[04:11] <mpt> ok, next meeting same time next week then
[04:11] <mpt> are there at least 30 days in August? I think so
[04:11] <mwhudson> um
[04:12] <SteveA> we?
[04:12] <SteveA> 23?
[04:12] <danilos> 23rd would work as well, I guess
[04:12] <schwuk> mpt 23rd?
[04:12] <mpt> wah
[04:12] <mpt> ok
[04:12] <mthaddon> mpt: 31
[04:12] <mpt> Did someone change it earlier?
[04:12] <mpt> anyway
[04:12] <mpt> == Actions from last meeting ==
[04:12] <mpt> There were none
[04:13] <schwuk> we should have the meeting on the 21st so you can all sing Happy Birthday to me
[04:13] <mpt> == Oops report ==
[04:13] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 132925, 132270
[04:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132925 in blueprint "OOPS adding dependency to a distribution blueprint" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132925
[04:13] <ubotu> Bug 132270 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132270 is private
[04:13] <matsubara> intellectronica can you take bug 132925?
[04:13] <matsubara> jamesh can you take bug 132270?
[04:13] <ubotu> Bug 132270 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132270 is private
[04:14] <intellectronica> i can take over 132925, shall i?
[04:14] <jamesh> matsubara: okay
[04:14] <intellectronica> matsubara: yes (typed before reading your question)
[04:14] <matsubara> thanks intellectronica, jamesh 
[04:15] <matsubara> mpt: back to you, thanks.
[04:15] <mpt> thank you matsubara 
[04:15] <mpt> == Critical bugs ==
[04:15] <Rinchen> Hi, 3 for today:
[04:15] <Rinchen> jamesh, what's the status of Bug #131043 please?
[04:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131043 in launchpad "database adapter serialisation tests disabled" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131043
[04:15] <Rinchen> I need someone to investigate Bug #132422.  barry are you free (enough)?
[04:15] <ubotu> Bug 132422 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132422 is private
[04:15] <Rinchen> jtv, is Bug #132660 there just so we remember to do this prior to 
[04:15] <Rinchen> release?
[04:16] <ubotu> Bug 132660 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132660 is private
[04:16] <jamesh> Rinchen: they are still disabled
[04:16] <barry> Rinchen: i will be in a little bit.
[04:16] <Rinchen> jamesh, are we going to remain that way for a bit? 
[04:16] <Rinchen> barry, thank you sir
[04:16] <ddaa> Rinchen: about bug 132607
[04:16] <ubotu> Bug 132607 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132607 is private
 There's a critical bug filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/132607
 It's critical because I discovered it earlier this week and needed to add it to the review queue.
 "why hasn't it been caught earlier"
 "A. We don't have smoke testing for the puller script."
 there's a fix for that too! look at the review queue ;)
 "make sync_branches" works for me.
 I'm still not sure why it wasn't caught in the unit tests. I'll need to talk to James about that (it's a layer / db adapter / zopey thing that I don't quite grok)
 so IIUC, this bug is actually a consequence of https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/121647 
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121647 in launchpad-bazaar "Migrate all of authserver to SQLObject" [Medium,Fix committed]   - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
[04:16] <jamesh> Rinchen: I think so. (in the short term)
 right, the fix involved calls to removeSecurityProxy()
[04:17] <Rinchen> Thanks ddaa 
[04:17] <Rinchen> jamesh, ok, consequently I'll keep asking you about this during these meetings. :-)  Thanks
 jtv, is Bug #132660 there just so we remember to do this prior to 
 release?
[04:17] <ubotu> Bug 132660 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132660 is private
[04:17] <Rinchen> or carlos or danilo ^^
[04:18] <jtv_> Rinchen: yes
[04:18] <jtv_> (sorry, had to look up the number)
[04:18] <danilos> Rinchen: jtv has not discussed it with us so far
[04:18] <danilos> Rinchen: ah, ok, here he is
[04:18] <jtv_> danilos: it's nothing, no problem whatsoever, all under control
[04:18] <Rinchen> jtv_, ok, that's an interesting use for critical bugs.  :-)
[04:18] <jtv_> Rinchen: it seemed fitting...
[04:18] <Rinchen> anyway, thank you.  mpt, back to you
[04:19] <mpt> thanks Joey
[04:19] <mpt> == Bug tags ==
[04:19] <SteveA> so, there's one bug tag proposed
[04:19] <SteveA> importqueue
[04:19] <matsubara> what's the difference between importqueue and the rosetta-imports one?
[04:19] <SteveA> danilo proposed it with some examples
[04:19] <mwhudson> oh
[04:20] <SteveA> and also said that maybe we can just use 'rosetta-imports'
[04:20] <mwhudson> i thought this was going to be some mysterious thing about code imports
[04:20] <ddaa> I think it would be better to use rosetta-imports
[04:20] <mwhudson> +1 for an unambiguous names :)
[04:20] <danilos> matsubara: the difference is that one is concerning totally unrelated code (importqueue)
[04:20] <ddaa> see mwhudson's confusion
[04:20] <mpt> except that we're trying to get away from "rosetta", right?
[04:20] <SteveA> so I want to ask danilo, carlos and jtv, would using the existing rosetta-imports be sufficient?
[04:20] <ddaa> or translation-imports
[04:20] <SteveA> mpt: that's a good point.  however, renaming the existing tag or tags is another conversation than this one
[04:20] <danilos> SteveA: imo, not, since those are breakages with imports, and are generally affecting everybody
[04:21] <mpt> Yes, my point applies only if introducing a new tag
[04:21] <danilos> "importqueue" ones only affect rosetta-admins (i.e. jtv, carlos, myself at the moment)
[04:21] <jtv_> So one alternative might be to have a new tag for "this only directly matters to admins"?
[04:21] <SteveA> danilos: I don't understand what you mean "generally affecting everybody"
[04:21] <ddaa> but please no "importfoo" tags without qualification of the affected domain (code, translations, bugs, etc)
[04:21] <carlos> jtv_: I hope you have a shorter name for that...
[04:21] <SteveA> you mean all developers?
[04:21] <SteveA> ddaa: I've noted your concen
[04:21] <danilos> jtvexcept that "importqueue" also means that you can work independently on importqueue ones from other rosetta code
[04:22] <carlos> SteveA: all users that import translations in Launchpad
[04:22] <danilos> SteveA: well, all rosetta users as well
[04:22] <SteveA> so, what bad thing would happen
[04:22] <danilos> SteveA: "importqueue" are only those bugs which concern about the mechanics of translation import queue
[04:22] <SteveA> if you used rosetta-imports for this purpose?
[04:23] <danilos> if we use 'rosetta-imports', then we lose the advantage of easily finding bugs which are only related to rosetta-admins, and which affect all users
[04:24] <danilos> also, 'importqueue' bugs would tend to be similar and related, and when you fix one, it may be trivial for you to fix some other one
[04:24] <SteveA> how many bugs total are we talking about?
[04:24] <SteveA> 10, 20,40?
[04:24] <danilos> current 'rosetta-imports' bugs can be in any part of rosetta code
[04:25] <danilos> SteveA: I'd say atm, 10-20
[04:25] <danilos> (haven't gone through entire list of bugs though)
[04:25] <Rinchen> danilos, do you have an estimate on how many queue bugs you have?
[04:26] <danilos> Rinchen: see above
[04:26] <Rinchen> so about the same number
[04:26] <SteveA> I don't object if you want a rosetta-importqueue to go along with rosetta-imports.  I think the distinction may be confusing to rosetta's users though.
[04:26] <SteveA> maybe rosetta-admin-ui is better?
[04:26] <danilos> SteveA: aren't bug tags mainly a tool for developers? and I hate 'rosetta-importqueue' since it's too long
[04:26] <SteveA> that way, it's clear
[04:27] <SteveA> too long?
[04:27] <danilos> I'd rather have 'translations-admin' then, but that may be confusing as well
[04:27] <SteveA> but, you have only 10-20 bugs, and your main concern is distinguishing from other import queue bugs
[04:27] <SteveA> how about admin-ui
[04:27] <SteveA> for any bug related to an admin ui in all of launchpad
[04:28] <danilos> that's a pretty good one as well
[04:28] <Rinchen> we have a UI tag already right mpt?
[04:28] <mpt> we do
[04:28] <jtv_> but wouldn't identify parser bugs and such
[04:28] <danilos> I'd be +1 on that
[04:28] <SteveA> matsubara: what do you think of an admin-ui tag?
[04:28] <mpt> We don't yet have the ability to search for multiple tags
[04:28] <carlos> SteveA++
[04:28] <danilos> jtv_: for parser bugs, we've got rosetta-imports
[04:28] <ddaa> sounds useful
[04:28] <mpt> afaik
[04:28] <matsubara> SteveA: I'd rather have an admin one and use it together with the ui one
[04:28] <jtv_> +1
[04:28] <matsubara> and then fix the bug that makes it possible to search for multiple tags
[04:29] <matsubara> :-)
[04:29] <mpt> And perhaps when mass tagging is implemented, we won't need to have these discussions at all
[04:29] <mpt> ;-)
[04:29] <SteveA> I think an 'admin' tag name is confusing
[04:29] <SteveA> like does it mean, FAO an admin
[04:29] <SteveA> or about administrative functionality
[04:29] <SteveA> or ... ?
[04:29] <jamesh> perhaps a combination of existing tags would be appropriate?
[04:29] <danilos> jamesh: except that, as mpt mentioned, we can't search on a combination of tags
[04:29] <Rinchen> I'm not in favour of simply "admin" because it lacks clarity.
[04:30] <SteveA> I agree with Rinchen
[04:30] <jtv_> admin-workflow?
[04:30] <jamesh> danilos: we should fix that :)
[04:30] <SteveA> so, we've been discussing this for 10 mins
[04:30] <SteveA> time to stop
[04:30] <mpt> yes
[04:30] <SteveA> danilos: I'm not rejecting your proposal, but I'm not accepting it in this meeting either
[04:30] <mpt> So, no decision today
[04:30] <SteveA> please take note that
[04:30] <SteveA>  - ddaa pointed out how a name could be confusing with vcs imports
[04:31] <SteveA>  - mpt pointed out we may want to change from rosetta- to translations- anyway
[04:31] <SteveA>  - various people pointed out ideas of combining more generic tags
[04:31] <SteveA>  - Rinchen pointed out that 'admin' alone lacks clarity
[04:31] <SteveA> I think those are the main points
[04:31] <danilos> SteveA: ok, so do I need to prepare better arguments, or try to go with something else?
[04:32] <SteveA> danilos: discuss it on your team, and propose something that takes these points into account for next week
[04:32] <danilos> SteveA: ok, thanks
[04:32] <mpt> thanks SteveA 
[04:32] <mpt> and thanks danilos 
[04:32] <mpt> moving on
[04:32] <mpt> == Operations report ==
[04:32] <mpt> mthaddon?
[04:33] <mthaddon> New script server provisioned and DB access set up - few final steps before it can go live
[04:33] <mthaddon> Edge has been tested with apache load balancer from vanadium - needs to have Nagios checks and separate IP addresses and then ready to go live
[04:33] <mthaddon> Staging seems to be hung running update-pkgcache - will need some troubleshooting help after the meeting
[04:33] <mthaddon> A reminder that I'll be away from tomorrow to Tuesday - returning on Wednesday in time for the release (I know, the timing is terrible) - contact the IS team if you need anything in my absence
[04:33] <mthaddon> I think that's it from me unless there are any questions about those items
[04:33] <SteveA> mthaddon: who is our point of contact on the IS team in your absence?
[04:33] <danilos> mthaddon: how are we to do testing requiring running scripts on staging?
[04:34] <danilos> (or anyone else)
[04:34] <mthaddon> danilos: contact IS
[04:34] <danilos> mthaddon: ok, thanks
[04:34] <mpt> thanks Tom
[04:34] <mthaddon> SteveA: I would start with elmo and he'll put you in touch with whoever can help if it's not him
[04:34] <mpt> == DBA report (stub) ==
[04:34] <SteveA> mthaddon: ok, so it's elmo.
[04:34] <stub> DB patch reviews for this cycle are done. I've still got abel's hwdatabase patch I would like to get through, but I suspect it won't get through in time as it will need discussion with Mark and maybe others.
[04:34] <stub> Land your branches with approved db patches.
[04:34] <stub> I would like opinions on if I should revert the bug text indexes to GIN and put up with the occasional OOPS from PostgreSQL, or leave it as it is using GIST indexes and put up with timeouts. I can't give a figure on the proportion of timeouts will be stopped by switching back to GIN.
[04:34] <stub> Nothing else to report.
[04:35] <mpt> thanks stub 
[04:35] <mpt> == Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) ==
[04:35] <ddaa> something to add here
[04:35] <Rinchen> go 4 it
[04:35] <Rinchen> Some news on the RT front:  I'm officially helping out bzr with their RT requests now. This should also benefit our bzr-lp team (ddaa, mwhudson, thumper, and jml).
[04:35] <Rinchen> IS has been a bit more busy than normal this week (and last) so if you have RT requests in the system please be patient. Don't hesitate to contact me though.
[04:36] <SteveA> mthaddon: I think it's important we have a distinct point of contact when you're away, and not "the is team", as we can get a "tragedy of the commons" with a team taking responsibility for something.  I mean no poor reflection on the IS team.  It's just sound practice.
[04:36] <ddaa> mwhudson and I are currently working intensely on a new db patch for the code-import infrastructure, that we hope to get through in this cycle.
[04:36] <Rinchen> Does anyone have any high priority RT requests that you'd like for me to look into?
[04:36] <mthaddon> SteveA: ok - just checking now 
[04:36] <SteveA> stub: can we use GIN and GIST indexes for different things, at the same time, in the same database
[04:36] <SteveA> ?
[04:36] <mthaddon> SteveA: have just confirmed with elmo that he's okay to be the main point of contact
[04:36] <danilos> SteveA: afaik, we can
[04:36] <SteveA> thanks mthaddon 
[04:37] <stub> SteveA: Not with the current code, and maybe not after that even
[04:37] <SteveA> stub: is that a limitation on our code, or on postgres?
[04:37] <stub> SteveA: I don't think that helps with our problem though
[04:38] <stub> SteveA: Either our code or tsearch2. We can set up two indexes, but we need to tell tsearch2 to use one rather than the other. And again, I'm not sure what that would solve.
[04:38] <SteveA> stub: keep two indexes, retry with slower index when we hit a failure?
[04:39] <SteveA> mpt: thanks, I'm done with my asynchronous questions.
[04:39] <mpt> ok
[04:39] <mpt> and that seems all for RT requests too
[04:39] <mpt> so
[04:39] <mpt> == A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) ==
[04:39] <mrevell> This week's user affecting issue comes from yesterday's users meeting. That meeting has also thrown up an interesting email from the Nexenta team - on the launchpad-users list- as they would like to make greater use of Launchpad. I'll post a report of the meeting to the launchpad-users list.
[04:39] <mrevell> One person attending the meeting said he thought it was odd that Launchpad doesn't offer web space for registered projects. This issue is raised from time to time but, to my mind, web hosting is sufficiently cheap that this shouldn't be a priority for LP.
[04:39] <mrevell> I wanted to raise it as I'm interested to know if the team feels this is something that Launchpad should be doing.
[04:39] <mrevell> Thanks.
[04:39] <stub> SteveA: Possibly both our code *and* tsearch2. We would need to rewrite our search stuff to use a savepoint so it can back out and retry a dud query, and then need to tell tsearch2 what index to use at query time rather than using its config.
[04:39] <mpt> mrevell, probably more hassle than expense
[04:40] <mrevell> mpt: Yeah, I can imagine all manner of problems
[04:40] <mrevell> mpt: not least security related.
[04:40] <barry> mrevell: web hosting is definitely handy for some subset of floss projects
[04:40] <mrevell> barry: Yeah? Any examples?
[04:41] <Rinchen> sourceforge offers it :-)
[04:41] <mrevell> Rinchen: Which is why I think people occasionally expect us to.
[04:41] <barry> mrevell: ones i've been involved with: mailman, jython/jpython, ht2html, other smaller ones
[04:41] <barry> Rinchen: yes
[04:41] <intellectronica> mrevell: would a wiki be sufficient for most projects that don't already have their own hosts? We already have the help wiki integrated, so maybe just using the same could be a good start
[04:41] <SteveA> mrevell: I've taken note of the idea
[04:41] <mrevell> SteveA: thanks.
[04:41] <SteveA> mpt: I don't think we should spend time discussing this in this meeting though
[04:41] <mpt> true
[04:42] <mpt> this is a mailing list / spec sort of thing
[04:42] <mrevell> mpt: I'll raise it on the list.
[04:42] <mpt> thanks mrevell 
[04:42] <mpt> == 1k branch limits (barry) ==
[04:42] <barry> so, an issue came up in the eu/us reviewers meeting regarding really big branches (10k+ lines)
[04:43] <cprov> err, I feel guilty 
[04:43] <barry> these are very difficult to review
[04:43] <barry> kiko proposed a 1k # of lines limit on branches
[04:43] <danilos> most my branches end up being between 1k and 2k diffs, so I'd hate that ;)
[04:43] <ddaa> uh
[04:43] <carlos> cprov: don't worry, this time is my fault :-(
[04:44] <barry> over that limit and a reviewer is allowed to summarily reject the patch
[04:44] <gmb> barry: Is that including deletions or is it just additions?
[04:44] <cprov> but I agree, developers should spend some time dimensioning their branches to be smaller than 1k lines (when it's possible)
[04:44] <barry> but a branch author can push back if s/he feels there is mitigating circumstances (e.g. lots of new sampledata, big deletes, etc)
[04:44] <ddaa> our current code-import work, even split reasonably just hardly fit in a 1k limit for some branches.
[04:44] <gmb> Ah, okay.
[04:45] <mpt> barry, anything more?
[04:45] <barry> gmb: there's debate about how much deletes should 'count' against that limit.  a reviewer still needs to look at them (e.g. to make sure you're not deleting relevant test), but they are definitely less overhead than additions
[04:45] <gmb> I see. Fair enough.
[04:45] <SteveA> I think we should work out a metric that reflects time-to-review better than line of diff
[04:45] <barry> mpt: just this...
[04:45] <bigjools> SteveA: +1
[04:46] <SteveA> this would probably use lines of code changed, and weight removed lines less than changes and additions
[04:46] <SteveA> barry: let's chat about that later today
[04:46] <barry> SteveA: okay.  done then.
[04:46] <SteveA> barry: I have some other ideas in this area that I think can make reviewing more predictable
[04:46] <barry> mpt: back to you
[04:46] <mpt> ok
[04:46] <mpt> thanks
[04:47] <mpt> == Blockers ==
[04:47] <matsubara> TEAM: infrastructure BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <mpt> TEAM: UI BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <jtv> TEAM: Translations BLOCKED: on reviews
[04:47] <salgado> TEAM: Registry BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <adeuring> TEAM hardware database:BLOCKED: No
[04:47] <bigjools> TEAM Soyuz BLOCKED No
[04:47] <statik> TEAM: commercialization BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <barry> TEAM: mailing lists BLOCKED: er, private xmlrpc ports (SteveA nudge nudge)
[04:47] <ddaa> TEAM: code BLOCKED: agreement on new code-import database schema design.
[04:48] <intellectronica> TEAM: blueprint BLOCKED: no
[04:48] <allenap> TEAM: bug tracker BLOCKED: no
[04:48] <sinzui> TEAM Answer Tracker BLOCKED: no
[04:49] <SteveA> barry: noted, thanks
[04:49] <mpt> ddaa, do you need help from outside the team for that?
[04:50] <barry> SteveA: thanks, maybe we can talk about that today too
[04:50] <SteveA> mpt: discussion about ddaa's thing are ongoing
[04:50] <ddaa> mpt: we are already getting the help we need, from tim and stub
[04:50] <mpt> ok
[04:50] <mpt> Then that appears to be everything
[04:50] <Rinchen> thanks mpt 
[04:50] <mpt> Thank you everyone
[04:50] <mpt> I now pronounce you MEETING OVER
[04:50] <SteveA> thanks mpt, great job.
[04:50] <mrevell> thanks mpt
[04:51] <mwhudson> thanks mt
[04:51] <mwhudson> mpt
[06:20] <ubotu> New bug: #132971 in malone "When changing a bug's status, Launchpad should require a comment" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132971
[06:22] <matsubara> dupe
[07:06] <ubotu> New bug: #132987 in launchpad "Form control spacing and alignment needs fixing" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132987
[07:58] <mdke> do I need a project in launchpad to upload a branch to or can I just use my username? 
[07:59] <mdke> I'm thinking I need one, right?
[08:00] <beuno> mdke: I believe you need a project
[08:00] <beuno> and hello  :D
[08:00] <salgado> mdke, I think there's a +junk thing you can use for that
[08:00] <mdke> salgado: is it permissible to use "config"?
[08:01] <beuno> and then you can upload to either your username or a team
[08:01] <salgado> (I'm just reviewing some code and learning about that)
[08:01] <mdke> I saw this: https://code.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/, and since I want to upload the config for a different planet, it would seem to be similar
[08:02] <beuno> oh, yes, you can use +junk!
[08:02] <beuno> create branches under there
[08:02] <mdke> hmm, that's a nasty word though :)
[08:03] <beuno> it does give the wrong idea...
[08:04] <mdke> Spads: you did the original planet, do you think it's acceptable to use the config project for other planets?
[08:06] <mdke> perhaps it's more consistent with LP policy to create my own project?
[08:06] <Spads> oh
[08:07] <Spads> I made that very early in my experience with launchpad
[08:07] <Spads> so I didn't know I was making it in a global namespace
[08:07] <mdke> oh ok
[08:08] <Spads> But
[08:09] <Spads> I'd have to look at how the access rights to the branch are handled.  I think it's probably a good idea if and only if it retains the property that only ubuntu members have write access to the planet ubuntu config
[08:10] <mdke> I don't intend to automatically merge/install any changes to my own branch, so I'm not too worried about that bit
[08:10] <Spads> Hmm, that looks rather specific to planet ubuntu, so I don't know if it would be a good fit for other planets
[08:10] <mdke> I'll create a project and upload it there
[08:34] <ahmadnassri> hey all
[08:34] <ahmadnassri> i'm looking for someone to guide me through launchpad .. i have some questions that are left un answered after going through the faq/help
[08:38] <salgado> hi ahmadnassri
[08:39] <salgado> just ask away
[08:46] <ahmadnassri> salgado: well first of all i would like to know how to cancel/remove a project from launchpad ... foolishly i created one without reading the docs thoroughly and i'm not happy about the setup ... and now search engines have indexed it and that is a big no no for me
[08:47] <salgado> ahmadnassri, just file a question (https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion) saying which project is that and we'll deactivate it for you
[08:48] <ahmadnassri> salgado: k gonna do that now, though i'm sure i did before ...
[08:49] <ahmadnassri> salgado: my biggest issue is with using bazar, my project uses subversion mainly
[08:49] <salgado> ahmadnassri, if you've done it you can see it at https://answers.launchpad.net/people/+me
[08:49] <ahmadnassri> salgado: i tried the svn-import but it doesn't see to work
[08:51] <salgado> ahmadnassri, I think imports have to be approved before we even attempt doing them.  did you ask anybody to approve yours?
[08:53] <ahmadnassri> salgado: hmm i didn't ask anybody directly the system said it will put it in queue and wait for approval, i waited for a while (weeks) then it said approve and import failed withouth providing more info ..
[08:53] <ahmadnassri> salgado: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/11626
[08:58] <salgado> oh, right. sometimes the imports don't work at first... there are too many corner cases, unfortunately
[08:59] <salgado> ddaa is the man to talk to when a code import fails
[08:59] <ddaa> mwhudson: probably knows better
[08:59] <ddaa> but we agree, the system does not give enough feedback
[08:59] <ddaa> and we are working hard at this very moment on groundwork to fix this
[08:59] <mwhudson> whut
[09:01] <mwhudson> ahmadnassri: which project was it that you wanted to import?
[09:01] <mwhudson> ahmadnassri: the reason for the failure is *probably* on https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests
[09:02] <ahmadnassri> mwhudson: i'll look there
[09:05] <ahmadnassri> one thing i could never find in launchpad unless i'm blind, (which happens sometimes) is rss/rdf feeds for everything that goes on 
[09:05] <ahmadnassri> bugs/tickets/blueprint/etc ...
[09:05] <ahmadnassri> so that one can present this information on the project's main site ..
[09:08] <ahmadnassri> call it "a connection to the out side world" if you wish ..
[09:08] <mwhudson> ahmadnassri: the launchpad devs _live_ in their mail clients, i guess that blinds us to other means of keeping up :)
[09:09] <mwhudson> more rss on launchpad would be a good thing though
[09:09] <mwhudson> i wonder if there are bugs on this...
[09:10] <ahmadnassri> oh i understand, i'm just presenting one point of view that i thought of immediately after i saw launchpad: how can i connect this to my project's site and my users/community members
[09:10] <ahmadnassri> mwhudson: i think there is one or two bugs on this ... however i don't think they are presented in such manner ...
[09:12] <ahmadnassri> i will add a ticket about this later with more detailed and descriptive info
[09:14] <mwhudson> that would be good
[11:41] <ubotu> New bug: #133038 in launchpad "Need a way to designate where code is hosted" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133038
[11:48] <kblin> I should go to bed... I just read "Need a way to desintegrate code"
[11:48] <kblin> :)