[03:44] <bicchi> question about installation. will ubuntu use the same i386 cd to install the mobile edition?
[03:44] <wasabi> Last I checked super small devices didn't have CD drives
[03:44] <bicchi> well not cd ofcourse since these machines do not come with a cd
[03:44] <bicchi> yeah
[03:44] <bicchi> usb installation
[03:45] <wasabi> Probably not. See, the Ubuntu installer CD has a huge desktop GUI. :)
[03:45] <bicchi> but the point is, is it going to be the i386 architecture 
[03:45] <wasabi> THe packages will be available in i386. I think the focus is on lpia right now.
[03:45] <wasabi> Low Power Intel Architecture
[03:46] <bicchi> so i would burn the iso into my usb drive.
[03:46] <bicchi> i just want to run the regular ubuntu desktop but have a small kernel.
[03:46] <bicchi> can i do that
[03:47] <bicchi> like use the kernel from UME but keep the software from the i386.
[03:50] <wasabi> Um.
[03:50] <wasabi> Doubt there will be a different kernel for i386 offered for awhile.
[03:51] <wasabi> You realize "UME" is not much more than a bunch more packages? Hildon, etc... probably some packages containing various apps useful on a small device.
[03:51] <wasabi> Probably a custom kernel for each target device.
[03:51] <wasabi> (just guessing about that one)
[03:53] <bicchi> we now have a kernel for amd64, i386, ppc, server, low latency. so i assume there will be one that has all the "fat" removed.
[03:57] <wasabi> maybe.
[03:57] <wasabi> but probably different fat added
[03:59] <bicchi> well i just mean stuff that is irrelevant on a small device. like module for loading scsi devices, or parallel printer access. 
[03:59] <bicchi> things that would make the kernel slower/bulkier
[04:01] <wasabi> Sure. NOne of that stuff is loade into the kernel anyways unless you need it.
[04:01] <wasabi> But yes, I suspect it won't be distributed for an install designed for a intel small device
[04:01] <wasabi> The existance of scsi modules on your disk does not make the kernel slower or bulkier.
[04:02] <bicchi> that is not what i meant. but yes i agree with you.
[04:02] <wasabi> Not like that's hard to remove right now.
[04:02] <bicchi> is there an installation guide already in place?
[04:04] <bicchi> i am looking for the instructions to install from a usb disk.
[04:05] <wasabi> There isn't anything to install yet as far as I know.
[04:07] <bicchi> i guess it will be something like this: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html
[04:08] <wasabi> Sure, if your device even has USB
[04:08] <bicchi> samsung q1
[04:08] <wasabi> What's that?
[04:09] <bicchi> for others will be a network install. if wifi or ether is available.
[04:09] <wasabi> OH, hell, you can install Ubuntu on that now.
[04:09] <bicchi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
[04:10] <bicchi> yeah but i need to know how to put the installer on a usb pen drive. that is where i am stock.
[04:10] <bicchi> i do not have an external cd drive the samsung q1
[04:10] <rustyl> bicchi, what are you stuck on?
[04:11] <rustyl> how to write the image to the USB key?
[04:11] <bicchi> yeah
[04:11] <bicchi> i am following this:
[04:11] <bicchi> https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html
[04:11] <bicchi> am i on the right track?
[04:12] <bicchi> or do i just copy the .iso to the pen drive ?
[04:12] <rustyl> bicchi, sorry... got distracted
[04:13] <rustyl> bicchi, we have this covered in the documentation, but i would need to track that down, but the answer is that you use dd to write the image to the device
[04:14] <rustyl> bicchi, are you familiar with using dd to write data directly to a device node?
[04:14] <bicchi> yeah but i would rather look at the docs to be safe
[04:15] <rustyl> bicchi, the other option is to us the image-creator GUI... i.e. just run 'sudo image-creator', and you can select a project, then select the target, and then click on a button in the bottom right to write the data to the key.  Let me find the documentation
[04:16] <bicchi> and that would burn and image to my pen drive for it to boot?
[04:16] <bicchi> full image 650mb iso ?
[04:16] <rustyl> http://moblin.org/howto_create-image.html describes using the GUI
[04:17] <rustyl> the GUI will just do a 'dd if=/path/to/the/image of=/dev/YOURDEVICENODE'
[04:17] <bicchi> i need no gui for that.
[04:17] <rustyl> yea, the gui just makes it easier 
[04:18] <rustyl> since selecting the wrong device can translate into disaster
[04:18] <bicchi> yes i am aware of that one
[04:18] <rustyl> if you use the command line, you also need to make sure the that device is not mounted
[04:19] <rustyl> ubuntu will automount the pin drive, and then you will end up with a corrupt image on the key if the device is mounted at the same time you write directly to the device node
[04:19] <rustyl> the gui just umounts the device for you
[04:19] <rustyl> but that's all there is to it
[04:20] <rustyl> bicchi, and another warning
[04:20] <rustyl> you need to choose the actual device node, not one of the partitions
[04:20] <rustyl> so if you already have a key that with a partition (which is normal), then it might show up as both /dev/sdb and /dev/sdb1
[04:21] <rustyl> the dd need to be directed to /dev/sdb
[04:21] <rustyl> otherwise you miss the boot sector
[04:28] <bicchi> do i need to burn the alternative cd or can i use the regular desktop cd
[04:29] <bicchi> in other words, text based installation
[04:34] <bicchi> rustyl: so sdb is the boot partition not sdb1
[05:01] <wasabi> sdb is the disk itself
[05:02] <bicchi> yeah i ended up with: sudo dd if=ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso of=/dev/sdb
[05:02] <bicchi> after running: df -h
[05:03] <bicchi> the dd process seems to be going really slows on a usb 2.0 pen drive. i am not sure if i should have passed other parameters.
[06:00] <patm> does anyone know  if the SDIO patch was integrated with the ume kernel
[02:23] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi. I need to discuss with you a few things about how to have the applications on the image.
[02:25] <mdz> my Q1 seems to throw away all of my changes to it when it is rebooted.  is this by design?
[02:26] <agoliveira> mdz: Hmmm... I guess so. I just tested and mine does the same
[02:27] <agoliveira> I mean, probably a bug not a feature :)
[02:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, it's not by design, and mine doesn't.
[02:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: did you install using a daily build, or one you built yourself?
[02:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: daily build from quite a while ago.
[02:28] <mdz> mine was most recently reinstalled from a daily build last week, but has always had this problem as I recall
[02:28] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: sure, now?
[02:28] <Mithrandir> I just want to de-root the image, then I can reflash my device.
[02:28] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes please
[02:30] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: What happens is that the application packages I created deppend on lpia and the images are being created from i386. Are you planning on switch to lpia?
[02:31] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes, once we have a useful hildon environment, I'll switch the dailies to lpia
[02:31] <mdz> Mithrandir: is that soon, or not soon?
[02:32] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I need to decide what to do in that case because we need some aplications there ASAP.
[02:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: agoliveira needs to package a number of things which are already in the archive for i386, but need to be built differently for UME (e.g. enabling hildon support)
[02:32] <mdz> he plans to do this by building conditionally for lpia, but if they daily builds won't be using lpia for a while, he needs to do something else in order to make progress
[02:33] <Mithrandir> next week or the week after is the current schedule.
[02:34] <Mithrandir> if I drop everything else and just drive for getting lpia images working, next week is doable.
[02:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: I need to catch up with you on your current task list and make sure it's aligned with what adilson needs to get done
[02:35] <mdz> we can do that at the meeting I suppose
[02:35] <Mithrandir> sounds good
[02:35] <mdz> but meanwhile, adilson is blocked
[02:36] <mdz> I didn't realize that lpia would block nearly all of the apps
[02:36] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: why can't you pile up fixes in your end make them ready to upload once we have lpia dailies ready?
[02:36] <mdz> Mithrandir: because then we don't find any of the problems until then
[02:36] <mdz> and then = september, apparently
[02:37] <mdz> which is too late to start testing applications
[02:37] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I can do that also but I wanted to test the applications too.
[02:37] <agoliveira> I can install them locally but it's not the same, of course.
[02:38] <agoliveira> What about if I build the packages locally and place them somewhere so people could download and install as a short term solution?
[02:39] <mdz> agoliveira: build them for i386, you mean?
[02:39] <agoliveira> mdz: Yes but forcing the hildon interface
[02:40] <agoliveira> That way we could test them. Not the best solution but a short term patch.
[02:41] <mdz> agoliveira: you could put them in a PPA
[02:41] <mdz> that would also give you some practice uploading
[02:41] <agoliveira> PPA?
[02:42] <mdz> never mind, if you haven't heard of it, then it would probably take too long for you to find out about it
[02:42] <agoliveira> Ah.. Personal Package Archive?
[02:42] <mdz> yes
[02:42] <agoliveira> I heard about it but didn't sue it.
[02:42] <agoliveira> use
[02:44] <agoliveira> Well, I could give it a try. Should we go that way?
[03:06] <agoliveira> mdz, Mithrandir, did you reach an agreement?
[03:15] <mdz> agoliveira: I suspect that when your applications are finally uploaded, there will be problems which need to be fixed at that time.  they will not be perfect in the first iteration
[03:15] <mdz> agoliveira: this is why I think it is important to get them in now, rather than waiting
[03:15] <mdz> agoliveira: I doubt anyone is running Dates on their desktop, so presumably the i386 build could be changed to use Hildon?
[03:15] <agoliveira> mdz: Ok but should I keep the way I was doing, with the lpia?
[03:16] <agoliveira> mdz: Sure
[03:16] <mdz> that approach might work for some of the applications
[03:17] <agoliveira> mdz: Yes but it will be complicated with Claws, for instance.
[03:17] <ntemis> hello
[03:18] <agoliveira> mdz: You didn't like my idea of creating a temporary set of binaries while we figure out the lpia image?
[03:18] <ntemis> i want to ask something
[03:19] <ntemis> is 770 nokia internet tablet supported?
[03:19] <ntemis> is yes
[03:19] <mdz> agoliveira: how would you get them into the daily build?
[03:19] <ntemis> if yes
[03:19] <ntemis> will it be possible to run skype on it?
[03:19] <mdz> ntemis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
[03:19] <agoliveira> mdz: As I said, I woulnd'. It would be just a set of .deb that one could install manually.
[03:20] <mdz> agoliveira: right, I don't think that solves the problem
[03:20] <agoliveira> mdz: Solve, not but would be a short time solution while the images from lpia are not there.
[03:20] <mdz> Mithrandir: what is blocking lpia daily builds?  can I help?
[03:21] <ntemis> mdz: :(
[03:21] <Mithrandir> mdz: glib emits a warning which causes hildon-desktop to build, at least.
[03:21] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm taking a look at that just now.
[03:21] <mdz> Mithrandir: s/build/fail to &/ ?  argh
[03:21] <Mithrandir> yes, fail to build.
[03:22] <agoliveira> Ouch...
[03:33] <mdz> Mithrandir: is there anything I can do to help?
[03:34] <agoliveira> or me. I'm kinda stuck anyway.
[03:36] <Mithrandir> if you could try to work out why the build failure in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8743442/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-lpia.hildon-thumbnail_0.11ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is happening, that'd be useful
[03:37] <Mithrandir> more eyes always helps.
[03:38] <Mithrandir> if you want to work on something else, we have plenty of MIRs that need to be written, and other tasks that need to be done.  Just tell me and I'll whip up some.
[03:38] <mdz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=416863
[03:39] <mdz> looks like the issue
[03:39] <mdz> I've no idea why it only showed up on lpia, though
[03:40] <Mithrandir> but we're using 4.2, not 4.3
[03:41] <mdz> Mithrandir: 4.2 gives the same warning
[03:41] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:41] <mdz> I'm pretty sure it will work fine if the warning is allowed to pass, and doesn't fail the build
[03:41] <Mithrandir> I'd rather fix glib.
[03:42] <mdz> agreed, but it already has that patch
[03:43] <Mithrandir> it built, at least.
[03:43] <mdz> hmm, same problems in a different place in the header
[03:44] <mdz> or maybe not
[03:44] <mdz> the fix is tied to gcc 4.3
[03:44] <mdz> but the same problem exists in 4.2
[03:44] <mdz> I'll fix
[03:45] <mdz> actually, I'll talk to seb128 about it first
[03:45] <mdz> seb128: our glib2.0 seems to suffer from http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=416863, which was fixed with a patch using #if __GNUC_PREREQ (4,3)
[03:45] <Mithrandir> it goes away if I change the __GNUC_PREREQ (4,2)
[03:46] <mdz> seb128: but the problem is in gcc 4.2 as well, at least ours, and the one used in Debian in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=424557
[03:46] <mdz> so I think it should be changed to (4,2)
[03:46] <Mithrandir> as in, I don't get warnings then.
[03:48] <Mithrandir> seb's been idle for a while, almost an hour and a half
[03:48] <mdz> I think that's the correct fix
[03:52] <mdz> I tried to debootstrap an lpia chroot, and it fails miserably, very early, without even getting a Packages file
[03:52] <Mithrandir> don't give it a URL, it'll DTRT then.
[03:52] <Mithrandir> lpia lives on ports
[03:53] <mdz> oh, how fun
[03:53] <mdz> agoliveira: debootstrap --arch lpia gutsy gutsy-lpia
[03:53] <mdz> agoliveira: if you want to help try to get hildon working there
[03:54] <agoliveira> mdz: Ok. Will do now.
[03:54] <Mithrandir> lool: given you were involved in the patch we talk above; any comments or thoughts?
[03:55] <Mithrandir> lool: will it break anything if we accidentially turn on __attribute__ ((__gnu_inline__)) on for too old compilers?
[03:56] <mdz> locales is a bit broken
[03:56] <agoliveira> mdz: Did you start the build again?
[03:56] <mdz> agoliveira: ??
[03:57] <agoliveira> mdz: I mean the lpia build wasn't stuck?
[03:57] <mdz> agoliveira: there is a problem with glib which causes the hildon-desktop build to fail
[03:57] <mdz> agoliveira: Mithrandir is fixing it, as you can see above
[03:58] <agoliveira> mdz: Oh ok. I was backloging.
[03:58] <Mithrandir> heck, if it breaks something, it'll only break for lpia or for anything using gcc 4.2 explicitly.
[03:58] <Mithrandir> I'll just upload
[03:58] <mdz> thanks
[03:59] <mdz> it will take hours to find out if it fixes things anyway
[03:59] <Mithrandir> no, I'm blasting through the stack here locally
[03:59] <mdz> unless of course the shiny new launchpad bits work
[04:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: ubuntu-mobile seems to have far fewer dependencies than I would expect
[04:00] <Mithrandir> on lpia, or in general?
[04:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: only looked at lpia
[04:00] <Mithrandir> they only get picked up when they're built
[04:00] <mdz> ah, I see i386 has many more
[04:03] <Mithrandir> glib uploaded, btw
[04:03] <Mithrandir> hildon-desktop seems much happier now
[04:13] <Mithrandir> mdz: I present to you -- UME lpia: http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia.png
[04:13] <Mithrandir> not quite there yet, but getting there.
[04:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: !
[04:15] <mdz> nice
[04:16] <Mithrandir> the theming is slightly funky too.
[04:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's about as funky as it is in the daily builds
[04:17] <seb128> Mithrandir, mdz: I'm here
[04:18] <seb128> Mithrandir: and no, I was idle for like half an hour ;)
[04:18] <Mithrandir> 15:47 [OPN]  -!-  idle     : 0 days 1 hours 27 mins 1 secs [signon: Thu Aug 16
[04:18] <Mithrandir> is what my irc client claimed
[04:18] <mdz> hildon-control-panel will need to be built with the new glib, presumably
[04:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I'll need to give back a bunch of packages once the new glib is in.
[04:19] <Mithrandir> seb128: anyway, my point wasn't to pick on you, sorry.
[04:19] <mdz> mobile-basic-flash is missing
[04:19] <Mithrandir> yeah, it's multiverse, so post-universe, unless I bump it.
[04:19] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you have any comments on the revised patch?
[04:19] <mdz> somehow, moblin-keyboard-manager got built, despite libhildon-desktop0 being missing
[04:19] <seb128> Mithrandir: no problem ;) I've been around just not typing on IRC ;)
[04:19] <seb128> Mithrandir: looking
[04:19] <mdz> is that because it was bootstrapped partway on i386?
[04:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: apt-get probably.  I think we still have the evil apt hack in place which will pull binaries from i386 if they don't exist on lpia
[04:20] <Mithrandir> Adam talked about removing that soon, since we should now be mostly out of circular build-dep-land.
[04:21] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: That's correct for what Adam told me.
[04:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: where is the revised patch?
[04:24] <agoliveira> Yeay! BUILDING lpia build of mouseemu 0.15-8ubuntu1 in ubuntu gutsy RELEASE (AUTO)
[04:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's just changing 4,3 => 4,2 in debian/patches/67_gcc43-inline.patch
[04:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: I can give you a debdiff if you want, but it seems slightly overkill. :-)
[04:24] <mdz> Mithrandir: and renaming it to ..._gcc42-inline.patch ;-)
[04:24] <seb128> Mithrandir: looks good to me
[04:24] <seb128> feel free to upload if you didn't do it yet
[04:25] <seb128> you did; excellent ;)
[04:26] <Mithrandir> mdz: I left the name, but changed the comment at the top saying "gcc 4.2 and 4.3"
[04:26] <Mithrandir> well, changed it so it now says "4.2 and 4.3" at least.
[04:27] <Mithrandir> asac: midbrowser seems to ftbfs on lpia
[04:28] <Mithrandir> asac: http://rafb.net/p/tqu4B040.html
[04:29] <Mithrandir> fails to build from source
[04:30] <agoliveira> Well, almost got it :)
[04:30] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: just keep asking; I'm happy to expand them for you.
[04:30] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I will.
[04:30] <agoliveira> Thanks
[04:31] <agoliveira> lpia is building norwegian support. Who needs that? :)
[04:31] <asac> Mithrandir: yes
[04:31] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: :-P
[04:31] <agoliveira> ;)
[04:31] <asac> Mithrandir: it needs the fix that we gave firefox
[04:31] <asac> e.g. build with gcc-4.1
[04:32] <Mithrandir> asac: ok, can you do it or do you have a fix?
[04:32] <agoliveira> I'm going lunch now or wont' make it time for the meeting.
[04:32] <amitk_> agoliveira: BenC once said this "[Tue Jul 3 2007]  [17:17:33]  <BenC>      yeah, TMI, IMO, KWIM"
[04:32] <asac> i can do it ... what bothered me more so far was to get the mobile-flash thing build against midbrowser intead of xulrunner
[04:33] <agoliveira> amitk_: Damn :)
[04:33] <asac> Mithrandir: anyway ... i still hope to get toolchain people fix the gcc bug that makes all mozillas fail to build on gcc-4.2
[04:33] <Mithrandir> asac: get gtkmozembed to build against midbrowser, I presume?
[04:33] <asac> yes
[04:33] <Mithrandir> that'd be nice, so we don't have to ship two browsers. :-)
[04:34] <asac> well atm it only works with xulrunner
[04:34] <asac> which we almost certainly don't want to use
[04:35] <Mithrandir> is that hard to fix?
[04:35] <Mithrandir> (sorry for asking clueless questions.)
[04:54] <mdz> Mithrandir: what's the next problem up the stack with lpia?
[04:54] <Mithrandir> midbrowser blocks mobile-basic-flash
[04:54] <Mithrandir> but asac's working on that
[04:55] <mdz> ok, anything else?
[04:56] <Mithrandir> yay, installing gtk2-engines-sapwood made it all look quite a lot better.
[04:56] <asac> Mithrandir: the problem is that someone has to do that ... so far carl is supposed to look into that
[04:56] <Mithrandir> asac: I was just talking about the build fix, not making the mobile browser great.
[04:57] <Mithrandir> asac: afaik, that's something you would be better at doing?
[04:57] <Mithrandir> I think moblin-image-creator needs some adjustments to know how to do lpia; I'll discuss that at the meeting tonight.
[04:57] <asac> Mithrandir: no ... mobile-basic-flash is only testable in a image creator created environment
[04:57] <asac> Mithrandir: which is just overhead for me atm (given that i do all these things mostly in my sparetime)
[04:59] <Mithrandir> asac: I think we are talking about different things here?  You're talking about getting gtkmozembed fixed, aren't you?
[05:00] <asac> Mithrandir: yes ... getting mobild-basic-flash use midbrowser
[05:00] <asac> before that ... "midbrowser blocks mobile-basic-flash" is a wrong statement
[05:00] <Mithrandir> no, it's not.  mobile-basic-flash build-depends on midbrowser.
[05:01] <asac> well ... look at the Depends: ... libxul0
[05:01] <asac> Mithrandir: anyway ... midbrowser will be uploaded tomorrow, ok?
[05:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-2.png, btw.
[05:02] <Mithrandir> asac: mind if I just do it myself, then?
[05:02] <asac> no ... if you update bzr branch i am fine
[05:02] <asac> you can get the commit from firefox branch
[05:02] <Mithrandir> what are the branch urls?
[05:02] <mdz> Mithrandir: I just ran an ubuntu-meta update to see what's become available on lpia since the last one, and it wants to remove mobile-basic-flash. is that expected?
[05:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, that's not expected.
[05:03] <asac> Mithrandir: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/firefox/ubuntu-2.0.0.x ... commit 82
[05:03] <mdz> Removed mobile-basic-flash from mobile-i386, mobile-amd64, mobile-powerpc, mobile-ia64, mobile-sparc
[05:03] <asac> Mithrandir: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/midbrowser/ubuntu
[05:03] <mdz> due to: ? Unknown mobile package: mobile-basic-flash
[05:03] <Mithrandir> mobile-basic-flash |        0.4 | gutsy/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
[05:04] <mdz> mobile-basic-flash |        0.4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/multiverse Packages
[05:04] <Mithrandir> I wonder why germinate is thinking that it's unknown then.
[05:04] <mdz> multiverse vs. universe?
[05:04] <Mithrandir> source in multiverse, binaries in universe
[05:04] <Mithrandir> well, that's not right, but it's been that for a while, I think
[05:04] <Mithrandir> been like that, even
[05:05] <Mithrandir> asac: thanks, I'll see what I can get done, then
[05:05] <lool> Mithrandir: (I was afk) Which patch do you mean?  The one allowing glib to build on gcc 4.2?
[05:05] <lool> It has some logic to detect the compilrr IIRC
[05:05] <Mithrandir> lool: yes, or rather, expanding the 4.3 check to cover 4.2 too.  Seb's answered, but thanks.
[05:06] <lool> http://paste.debian.net/34773
[05:07] <lool> Mithrandir: Ah so this works for gcc 4.2 too?
[05:08] <mdz> lool: notice that the duplicate Debian bug was reporting the failure with gcc 4.2
[05:08] <lool> Mithrandir: But #define G_INLINE_FUNC extern inline was working with 4.2 I think
[05:09] <Mithrandir> lool: it was needed to get some hildon packages building on lpia.
[05:09] <mdz> Mithrandir: that was the Packages file, so i386 binaries are in multiverse at least
[05:10] <Mithrandir> mdz: not according to rmadison, but I guess somebody might have moved them
[05:10] <lool> mdz: Yeah #424557 was for 4.2; I thought it was working for 4.2, but obviously not
[05:10] <lool> I'll extend the check to 4.2 too; thanks!
[05:10] <Mithrandir> mdz: seems like somebody corrected the component mismatches
[05:12] <lool> 16:26 < Mithrandir> mdz: I left the name, but changed the comment at the top  saying "gcc 4.2 and 4.3"
[05:12] <lool> I did exactly the same :)
[05:12] <asac> Mithrandir: ok i have a few minutes after a short break ... will upload midbrowser then.
[05:15] <Mithrandir> thanks
[05:54] <asac> Mithrandir: Accepted midbrowser 0.1.6a-0ubuntu2
[05:54] <asac> Mithrandir: will you ping infinity to give it a spin on lpia?
[05:55] <Mithrandir> asac: yay, thanks.
[05:55] <Mithrandir> yes, will do.
[05:59] <Mithrandir> hi Charlie, Rusty.
[05:59] <Mithrandir> kwwii: I'd like to chat with you about keyboard layouts at some point, but probably not during the meeting.
[06:00] <kwwii> Mithrandir: ok, I'll be around between this meeting and the distro team meeting later
[06:00] <Mithrandir> kwwii: excellent.
[06:00] <rustyl> hello all.. morning/evening/whatever
[06:00] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Hello - Did your Menlow systems arrive yet?
[06:00] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: no. :-(
[06:01] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: is there any kind of tracking you or Mauri can do on your end?
[06:01] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  I'll have to check.  Did you get tracking info ??
[06:01] <mdz> hello all
[06:02] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yes.  We can discuss this after the meeting?
[06:02] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you going to use mootbot?
[06:02] <Mithrandir> oh, it's here.
[06:02] <Mithrandir> #startmeeting
[06:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:55. The chair is Mithrandir.
[06:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
[06:02] <agoliveira> Yep :)
[06:02] <mdz> Mithrandir: I asked them to bring it in here
[06:02] <Mithrandir> woo
[06:03] <Mithrandir> I hadn't noticed.
[06:03] <rustyl> cool bot
[06:03] <mawhalen> mawhalen joined
[06:03] <Mithrandir> hiya Mauri.  Still no sign of the menlow systems, btw. :-(
[06:03] <mawhalen> I'll try to track it right now
[06:03] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[06:04] <Charliefjohnson> Bryce has one.  (i.e. a Menlow) can you remotely access?
[06:04] <Mithrandir> unless he has a full ip-enabled KVM setup at his house, I don't think so.
[06:04] <Mithrandir> so, given only Amit and I've submitted status reports, we'll do status updates on the other specs, then any other business.
[06:05] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I asked Waldo to send an update on hw decode to the mailing list.  Probably hasn't seen it yet.
[06:06] <Mithrandir> I'll try to get the reminder out on Wednesday next week, so people will hopefully see it and act on it.
[06:06] <rob_> rob is here as well
[06:06] <Mithrandir> asac: are you around?
[06:06] <asac> sure
[06:07] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I'll ping Waldo, Henry and Hari to make sure they post updates on Wed. from now on.
[06:07] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: thanks.
[06:07] <Mithrandir> anybody know where Bob is?
[06:07] <Mithrandir> or who are local to him and can phone him.
[06:07] <mawhalen> I'll find him
[06:08] <asac> Mithrandir: just summon me when we get to browser ... 
[06:08] <Mithrandir> asac: I was planning on starting with browser.
[06:08] <Mithrandir> since it's at the top of the list
[06:08] <mdz> [TOPIC]  midbrowser status
[06:08] <mdz> Mithrandir: oop, it will only listen to you
[06:08] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  midbrowser status
[06:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  midbrowser status 
[06:08] <Mithrandir> mdz: yeah, we should get them to remove the ACL stuff; it's not really needed.
[06:08] <agoliveira> mootbot is monogamic :)
[06:09] <Mithrandir> bspencer: good morning. :-)
[06:09] <bspencer> morning
[06:09] <Mithrandir> bspencer: can you and asac give us an update on browser status?
[06:09] <agoliveira> bspencer: Hi
[06:09] <asac> new midbrowser package was just uploaded that should build on lpia
[06:09] <bspencer> asac, I played with it a little and it looks like it is making good progress
[06:09] <asac> from upstream development i made not much progress, because i was busted bringing my other specs in beta for feature freeze
[06:10] <asac> (in laste week)
[06:10] <asac> bspencer: can we talk after the meeting a bit?
[06:10] <bspencer> sure
[06:10] <mdz> I noticed that with the bits we have in gutsy, the browser can't be launched from the home screen, though it works from the command line
[06:10] <bspencer> carl said you wanted to talk about the value of Hildon window
[06:10] <asac> mdz: thats interesting ... do you see any errors?
[06:10] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think I fixed that with the new mobile-application-service, which fixed the path, but I haven't actually tested it yet..
[06:10] <bspencer> mdz, ?   I'll fix that today
[06:10] <mdz> asac: I wouldn't know where to look
[06:11] <rustyl> mdz, i bet the problem is in the home applet conf.xml file
[06:11] <mdz> is there an error log for the X session?
[06:11] <bspencer> a simple change, but sorry it is broken
[06:11] <rustyl> /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/conf.xml
[06:11] <Mithrandir> ~/.xession-errors
[06:11] <mdz> no, I looked th ere
[06:11] <mdz> there
[06:11] <bspencer> mdz, unlikely that you would see an error in a log.  But you could always hit Shift and see the error window in the flash
[06:11] <mdz> there is no ~/.xsession-errors, at least not with the daily image builds
[06:12] <Mithrandir> hm, there should be now.  I'll investigate.
[06:12] <mdz> bspencer: ah, is that what activates that...I did that inadvertently recently
[06:12] <agoliveira> bspencer: It does not seem to be working anymore.
[06:12] <agoliveira> I mean the shift
[06:12] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to check up on daily image build status (and ping Adam for logfiles again)
[06:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to check up on daily image build status (and ping Adam for logfiles again) 
[06:12] <bspencer> the flash should be better behaved and log errors.  We'll do that
[06:12] <mdz> rustyl: points to /usr/bin/mobile-browser
[06:12] <mdz> should be /midbrowser
[06:12] <rustyl> mdz, then we need to update the mobile-basic-flash package in gutsy with the latest in moblin
[06:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: there's a build dated today, which works
[06:13] <mdz> (as well as gutsy anyway)
[06:13] <bspencer> summary:  browser status:  toolbars at the bottom, <almost> launchable from UI.  Next steps:  hildon menus and top-level window.
[06:13] <kyleN> anyone know how the default UME icon theme is set?
[06:14] <mdz> [AGREED]  stdout/stderr from the home screen should be logged somewhere
[06:14] <Mithrandir> [AGREED]  stdout/stderr from the home screen should be logged somewhere
[06:14] <MootBot> AGREED received:  stdout/stderr from the home screen should be logged somewhere 
[06:14] <Mithrandir> kyleN: it's set from /etc/X11/Xsession.d/25ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra_startup, iirc.
[06:15] <mdz> kyleN: (note: the weekly status meeting is in progress)
[06:15] <kyleN> Thanks gandalf, I mean Mithrandir ;)
[06:15] <Mithrandir> bspencer: how's the process of bringing those bits into Ubuntu going?
[06:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: should we talk about that as a general topic?
[06:15] <bspencer> Mithrandir: you mean the browser bits?
[06:15] <Mithrandir> bspencer: yes
[06:15] <rustyl> btw, the home applet is in the hildon-desktop process, so the request is really to capture the stderr/stdout of the hildon-desktop
[06:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: good idea.
[06:16] <mdz> [TOPIC]  process for getting moblin.org updates into gutsy regularly
[06:16] <bspencer> asac should comment.  They have just source on moblin, w/o packaging.  The only browser package is the Ubuntu package which is working
[06:16] <asac> Mithrandir: bspencer we could do a preview release ... but actually I would prefer not to do new "upstream" releases for every tiny feature we have
[06:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: can we do it after the status updates, please?
[06:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: sure
[06:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: I have a few other agenda items when we get there
[06:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: ack.
[06:17] <Mithrandir> seems like the browser is going ok, then.
[06:18] <Mithrandir> so let's move on to mobile-graphics.
[06:18] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Graphics
[06:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Graphics 
[06:18] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: how's that going?
[06:18] <asac> bspencer: we can talk about release policy after meeting as well ... please ping me when meeting is over.
[06:18] <bspencer_> asac, sure
[06:18] <bspencer_> ok
[06:19] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Re-plan is complete but I'm not allowed to release dates yet.  Hopefully today
[06:19] <Mithrandir> ok.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> so you can't really give us any useful status update just yet?
[06:20] <mdz> Charliefjohnson: can you hint at whether there will be action needed on our part in the near term?
[06:20] <Charliefjohnson> Email from Bryce indicated the Alpha 2D driver is in gutsy now.  Have now verified that yet.
[06:20] <Charliefjohnson> s/now/not/
[06:21] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  No near term actions required other than the 2D driver integration that Bryce and Jacob were working on.
[06:21] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:21] <rob_> amitk_, did the psb driver and drm make it into the kernel modules yet?
[06:21] <amitk_> rob_: yes they did
[06:22] <amitk_> there is going to be a new kernel upload today, I believe
[06:22] <rob_> amitk_: is it built and we can pull it into an image built by image-creator?
[06:22] <amitk_> So, if everything goes alright, you should have a build by tomorrow
[06:22] <Mithrandir> so we need to check on whether the X driver and the necessary bits for it to work are in the archive, but otherwise it should be under control?  Assuming the kernel lands today, that is.
[06:23] <rob_> amitk_: we'll test it tomorrow then and update the crown beach config's xorg.conf then to use the new driver if evrything is working
[06:24] <Mithrandir> let's move on, then.
[06:24] <amitk_> rob_: sounds good. Hopefully I hear something about the crown beach systems by then :)
[06:24] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  UI
[06:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  UI 
[06:24] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir, amitk_ , rob_ : the psd driver shows up in a search of the gutsy packages now.
[06:24] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: good to hear.
[06:24] <Mithrandir> bspencer: your item; what's the current status?
[06:25] <bspencer> 3 tongs in the fire
[06:25] <rustyl> FYI, while talking about the UI... we make a change in the mobile home flash plugin so that the mobile-application-service is no longer needed
[06:25] <bspencer> clean up flash UI so it behaves well
[06:25] <bspencer> 2) get Ken's UI working with some new marquee plugins
[06:25] <bspencer> 3) start investigating another possible UI example.
[06:25] <bspencer> (using Clutter toolkit)
[06:26] <bspencer> for #1), yes rusty pointed out that we no longer start applications with the mobile-application-service
[06:26] <bspencer> this will be removed
[06:26] <rustyl> but... ubuntu-mobile still pulls in the package
[06:26] <agoliveira> bspencer: Nice
[06:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: the same mobile-application-service that you just fixed?
[06:27] <Mithrandir> rustyl: that's easily fixed once we have the new flash ui in
[06:27] <bspencer> rustyl, we would update both mobile-basic-flash and reomve the other at the same time
[06:27] <bspencer> right
[06:27] <bspencer> so we can take care of that in the next day.
[06:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think I touched it, no?
[06:27] <bspencer> for #2) Ken's UI we have started some work on these new plugins.
[06:27] <rob_> Charliefjohnson, where are you searching? we have it defined on moblin to work with our kernel, jacob sent email about it yesterday
[06:27] <bspencer> nothing to show yet
[06:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: s/fixed/uploaded/
[06:27] <Mithrandir> rustyl: is the git repo updated with the new flash?  If so, I can do it right away.
[06:28] <mdz> so it's obsolete now?
[06:28] <mdz> or just note used by the flash UI?
[06:28] <mdz> s/note/not/
[06:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: it was first uploaded some time ago, I haven't touched it lately
[06:28] <rustyl> Mithrandir, yes, the git repo for mobile-basic-flash is updated
[06:28] <mdz> Mithrandir: <Mithrandir> mdz: I think I fixed that with the new mobile-application-service, which fixed the path, but I haven't actually tested it yet..
[06:28] <Mithrandir> oh, that was uploaded a week or so ago
[06:28] <Mithrandir> or at least a couple of days.
[06:29] <Charliefjohnson> rob_: I meant the psb 2D driver.  Not the kernel drm modules.
[06:29] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to update ubuntu-mobile package and upload new mobile-basic-flash
[06:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to update ubuntu-mobile package and upload new mobile-basic-flash 
[06:30] <Mithrandir> how's 2) and 3) going?
[06:30] <rustyl> Mithrandir, also... the image-creator was updated to no longer explicity install mobile-application-service
[06:30] <rob_> Charliefjohnson, ah, got it
[06:30] <bspencer> we've started #2, nothing to show yet.
[06:30] <bspencer> probably anothre couple of weeks to get the first screen with the big icons
[06:30] <bspencer> for #3) We have a couple guys investigating Clutter usage for some visual niceties in the home screen.  We would like to get Ubuntu-mobile a non-flash UI asap.
[06:31] <bspencer> but probably mid-Sept for anyhting usable.
[06:31] <agoliveira> bspencer: CLutter?
[06:31] <bspencer> clutter is an OpenGL toolkit
[06:31] <bspencer> from openedhand
[06:31] <Mithrandir> bspencer: how will clutter work sans 3d accel?
[06:31] <agoliveira> Ok.
[06:31] <bspencer> like Pigment
[06:31] <bspencer> Mithrandir, we'll see
[06:31] <mdz> ...slowly
[06:31] <bspencer> :)
[06:31] <rustyl> while talking about clutter, we do have confirmation that Clutter is doing the right thing (power wise) when no animations are running.  The same can not be said for Adobe Flash
[06:32] <agoliveira> Tell me about it...
[06:32] <mdz> sounds like something worth checking before committing to it
[06:32] <bspencer> is kwwii online?
[06:32] <mdz> kwwii: ping
[06:32] <rustyl> clutter-project.org
[06:33] <bspencer> our flash buy is out on sabbatical now, so I'm playing with it a bit, but I'm sure we could improve the way flash is using power
[06:33] <mdz> looks like not, best to mail  him
[06:33] <bspencer> I think it is still running 30 frames / sec when just sitting there.
[06:33] <bspencer> playing a "movie"
[06:33] <bspencer> not the best for power
[06:33] <bspencer> I'll chat with Ken about it
[06:33] <rustyl> the number of processor wakeups is not == fps
[06:34] <rustyl> it's much much worse
[06:34] <kwwii> yepp, I am here
[06:34] <bspencer> kwwii, I'll chat with you offline about our flash stuff if you have a sec after the mtg
[06:34] <bspencer> and also wanted to chat about themes again briefly
[06:34] <kwwii> bspencer: sure, I'll be here :-)
[06:34] <Mithrandir> bspencer: themes in or out of the meeting?
[06:35] <bspencer> Mithrandir, either, if you want 
[06:35] <bspencer> I was thinking after
[06:35] <Mithrandir> shorter meeting is good, so after is fine
[06:35] <Mithrandir> moving on then
[06:35] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  power-thermal-optimizations
[06:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  power-thermal-optimizations 
[06:35] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yours again
[06:36] <Charliefjohnson> Amit sent out status on the thermal extension integration?  Correct?
[06:37] <amitk_> right
[06:37] <Mithrandir> ok, so that's covered there, then
[06:37] <amitk_> I've received the patches from Intel. I am going to have to beat them into shape for git consumption. Should be in the next upload (not todays)
[06:38] <Charliefjohnson> amitk_, Mithrandir : Looks like next week is the target ?
[06:38] <mdz> amitk_: who is doing the kernel upload today? kyle?
[06:38] <amitk_> mdz: yes
[06:39] <amitk_> Charliefjohnson: next week for integration at the earliest. I am not sure about the next kernel upload though.
[06:42] <Mithrandir> ok, moving on
[06:42] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  USB Client
[06:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  USB Client 
[06:42] <Mithrandir> I still haven't had time to review it properly, sorry, but I hope there's been some progress on the implementation?
[06:42] <Charliefjohnson> USB Client is in the same boat as Graphics.  Re-plan complete but I can't release dates yet.
[06:43] <Charliefjohnson> I just received a status - I'll post to mailing list.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> let's just move on then.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Utilities
[06:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Utilities 
[06:44] <bspencer> ToddBrandt has been working on Utilities from our side
[06:45] <Mithrandir> bspencer: LP lists that as blocked; we discussed that some time ago and you were going to mark it appropriately?
[06:45] <bspencer> if ToddBrandt is here he can comment on that...  if not...
[06:45] <bspencer> there are two choices there
[06:45] <bspencer> we found the main issue
[06:45] <bspencer> a GTK bug related to iconview
[06:45] <Mithrandir> idle 9 hours, so probably not around.
[06:45] <Mithrandir> he was around in my morning.
[06:45] <bspencer> and the size that is reported
[06:46] <bspencer> ToddBrandt, will send out a solution in the next couple of days
[06:46] <bspencer> the right thing is a patch upstream to GTK
[06:46] <bspencer> but there is also a workaround in the Hildon Control Panel code
[06:46] <bspencer> good news is that we won't be blocked
[06:46] <rustyl> and it's a pretty small workaround
[06:46] <bspencer> so we can continue
[06:46] <Mithrandir> does the patch to upstream GTK exist already or does it need to be developed?
[06:46] <bspencer> ToddBrandt, has been working on pulling in the existing ubuntu control panel related projects and analysiing their usefulness
[06:47] <bspencer> Mithrandir, it needs to be developed, though we know where the code is 
[06:47] <Mithrandir> ok, then I suggest we put in the workaround in hildon for now.
[06:47] <bspencer> Mithrandir, right.  That is what Todd is doing today
[06:47] <bspencer> should be there very soon.  
[06:48] <Mithrandir> ok, coolie.
[06:48] <rustyl> ToddBrandt sent an email with the hildon control panel patch to the ubuntu-mobile mailing list, and this email also explains what is happening
[06:48] <Mithrandir> I'll get it applied & uploaded then.
[06:48] <mdz> I saw a list of components with their probable bases
[06:48] <bspencer> ah!  I see that.  OK.  
[06:48] <mdz> I think it was on the list, but it would be nice to have a copy in the wiki to keep up to date
[06:49] <bspencer> mdz, ok, I'll follow up with ToddBrandt to get his information there
[06:49] <mdz> great
[06:49] <bspencer> he has a good list.  Has done what agoliveira did for apps
[06:49] <agoliveira> bspencer: What a lousy guy he must be...
[06:49] <agoliveira> :)
[06:49] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  ToddBrandt to add list of control panel applications to wiki
[06:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to add list of control panel applications to wiki 
[06:50] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to upload new hildon-control-panel with gtk workaround.
[06:50] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to upload new hildon-control-panel with gtk workaround. 
[06:50] <Mithrandir> how does the list of needed control panel applets look?
[06:50] <Mithrandir> as in, does it seem we have most of them already and they just need to be hildonised?
[06:51] <bspencer> mixed bag
[06:51] <Mithrandir> any hard ones?
[06:51] <bspencer> the UI-related tasks will need to be redone
[06:51] <bspencer> but network can be very similar
[06:51] <bspencer> system status == easy
[06:51] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:51] <bspencer> screen calibration, there are some existing tools
[06:51] <Mithrandir> I tested nm-applet on my device and it generally just worked.
[06:51] <bspencer> Mithrandir, same.  glad about that
[06:52] <bspencer> volume controls  are the same
[06:52] <bspencer> and we have a brightness control applet already too
[06:52] <bspencer> so we should get 3-4 key applets working in the next week
[06:52] <Mithrandir> nice.
[06:52] <mdz> indeed, the dialog is ugly and the button is hard to hit, but the functionality is there
[06:52] <mdz> (NM)
[06:53] <Mithrandir> sounds like there are exciting things happening with the control panel applet code now, then.
[06:53] <Mithrandir> thanks
[06:53] <Mithrandir> moving on
[06:53] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  media player
[06:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  media player 
[06:53] <bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, it is great to have a dedicated resource on control panel
[06:53] <bspencer> media player is also moving ahead.  2 big things to do...
[06:54] <bspencer> 1) bspencer to get media player launchpad site updated
[06:54] <bspencer> 2) get latest media player bits into ubuntu-mobile
[06:54] <Mithrandir> current git just needs to be uploaded?
[06:54] <bspencer> with #1, we will then need to discuss the gaps for a full media experience.  There are some holes that no one is owning yet
[06:54] <bspencer> Mithrandir, right.
[06:55] <bspencer> we are working on media playback and simple playlist creation
[06:55] <bspencer> but there is no one looking at media syncing yet
[06:55] <rob_> bspencer, has anyone tested the brightness control on Menlow HW, i thought it at some point touches ACPI so i'm wondering if ACPI exposes what you need for the brightness control
[06:55] <bspencer> (aside from "USB client")
[06:55] <bspencer> rob_, ask tariq
[06:56] <Mithrandir> bspencer: do we want those to be separate?
[06:56] <bspencer> well, let's not decide that here.  But after we get a good spec uploaded we can go over the details
[06:56] <bspencer> I'll have that done by Friday
[06:57] <bspencer>  [Action.... ]   
[06:57] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer to update media player spec
[06:57] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to update media player spec 
[06:57] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to upload new media player
[06:57] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to upload new media player 
[06:58] <Mithrandir> looks right?
[06:58] <bspencer> yes
[06:58] <bspencer> one more thing I'll note before moving on...
[06:58] <bspencer> the media player will have a new plugin capability
[06:58] <bspencer> which allows applications to be registered to handle certain content types
[06:58] <Charliefjohnson> Folks: Have to attend staff meeting in 3 minutes.  Send email if you need something.  Can we make sure and discuss the broken daily builds ?? (i.e. won't install.)
[06:58] <mdz> Charliefjohnson: current build installed fine for me
[06:59] <mdz> 20070816
[06:59] <bspencer> so if you are in the media player and select JPG, BMP, PNG, for example, you could have a "Flickr uploader" app icon show up
[06:59] <bspencer> ok.  that's all I have for media player
[06:59] <Mithrandir> bspencer: that sounds like useful functionality, indeed
[06:59] <mdz> what's next?
[06:59] <Charliefjohnson> mdz: I should have clarified - on Menlow.  You can't test that yet but could Bryce take a look at it since he has a Menlow?
[07:00] <mdz> Charliefjohnson: possibly, but Bryce has a lot of commitments beyond mobile. we really need to get menlow hardware to the mobile team
[07:00] <Mithrandir> since Charlie is leaving, I'll skip hardware decode and give him an action item instead
[07:01] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  Charliefjohnson to send status update for hardware decode to ubuntu-mobile list
[07:01] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Charliefjohnson to send status update for hardware decode to ubuntu-mobile list 
[07:01] <Mithrandir> I think that was the end of the status updates; the rest are informational or already have had their status updates.
[07:01] <Mithrandir> +sent
[07:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: you wanted to discuss bringing bits from moblin.org into UME?
[07:02] <Mithrandir> anybody got other business they want to discuss?
[07:02] <rob_> SDIO
[07:02] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[07:03] <mdz> Mithrandir: also, you might want to update the rest of the folks here about your progress on lpia
[07:03] <agoliveira> Applications status. I want to know about intel side as well.
[07:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: ack.
[07:03] <Mithrandir> rob,agoliveira: added to agenda
[07:03] <mdz> agreed, would like an update from agoliveira on apps status
[07:04] <mdz> also would like to touch on where we stand relative to hildon upstream
[07:04] <mdz> and briefly on bug tracking
[07:04] <bspencer> agoliveira, I'd like to chat about that too
[07:04] <Mithrandir> ok
[07:04] <bspencer> mdz, hildon +1
[07:04] <Mithrandir> let's start then?
[07:04] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Bringing bits from moblin.org into Ubuntu
[07:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bringing bits from moblin.org into Ubuntu 
[07:05] <mdz> ok, there seem to be a few different channels for code arriving into UME
[07:05] <mdz> we have bits which are part of Ubuntu already, and possibly tweaked for UME (including tweaks specific to the lpia build, as agoliveira is doing)
[07:05] <mdz> we have bits coming from bazaar repositories in LP and uploaded by Mithrandir
[07:06] <mdz> we have bits which live on moblin.org in git, and are published in the package repository there
[07:06] <mdz> for that latter category, we seem to have a lag in getting things updated in gutsy
[07:06] <mdz> and I'd like to discuss ways in which we could improve that, so that we're increasingly working with the same code base
[07:07] <mdz> I think at present, uploads are done by Mithrandir on request
[07:07] <mdz> Mithrandir: ?
[07:07] <Mithrandir> yes, and when I chance anything myself and I think a release is appropritate.
[07:08] <Mithrandir> I do commit a bit to the moblin.org git repositories for those bits which live there.
[07:08] <mdz> I'd like to suggest that we consider a) syncing of packages from the moblin repository into gutsy, b) syncing of packages from moblin into a PPA (and thereafter into gutsy), and c) moblin folks having privileges to make direct uploads to gutsy
[07:09] <rob_> mdz: PPA?
[07:09] <Mithrandir> c) sounds like the best long-term approach to me, but it'll require some effort for people to go through MOTU and such.
[07:09] <mdz> rob_: PPA is a service offered as part of Launchpad, which builds packages and publishes them in an archive accessible by apt
[07:09] <Mithrandir> especially since I want UME to end up in main and not just universe.
[07:09] <agoliveira> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[07:10] <mdz> Mithrandir: it make take a little time, but well worth it I think
[07:10] <mdz> jono agreed to contact mawhalen to connect the relevant people on  both sides
[07:10] <rustyl> how much time are we talking about?
[07:10] <mawhalen> jono contacted me but I haven't heard back from him
[07:10] <bspencer> rustyl, is a good start for MOTU on our side
[07:10] <agoliveira> I would love 1) but looks there's a security problem in it? So 2) Looks the best option to me short-term.
[07:11] <mdz> rustyl: given that you clearly already know how to make packages, it involves having some folks review your work and acknowledge that, so that you can be granted privileges
[07:11] <agoliveira> rustyl: Don't worry, I'm also in the same situation.
[07:11] <mdz> we'll dedicate time on the parts of jono and dholbach to helping the process along
[07:12] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: syncing is fine, but they obviously have to be checked by hand first; we don't want to blindingly sync packages. :-)
[07:12] <rustyl> so then regardless of what we do for the short term, we should start a couple of us Intel guys in the MOTU direction
[07:12] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure. +1 to option 2.
[07:12] <rustyl> btw, i think most of the problems that we have seen are related to the way we do builds on moblin.org
[07:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: right, the issues are more or less the same as syncing from any third-party repository
[07:13] <Mithrandir> rustyl: I don't think the process behind how and when you do builds is entirely clear to the rest of us.
[07:13] <mdz> the idea being that once we're confident with a particular package, we can sync it with only minimal review
[07:13] <rustyl> anytime any source is touch in a moblin repository, the code is built and a package uploaded to the moblin apt repository
[07:13] <rustyl> and i think this needs to change
[07:13] <mdz> rustyl: what's the URL for that repository?
[07:14] <rustyl> what we (moblin) need to have the package upload be islolated from the autobuild
[07:14] <rustyl> mdz, just a second... let me dig that up
[07:14] <Mithrandir> deb http://www.moblin.org/apt gaston main
[07:15] <rustyl> yea, that's it
[07:15] <mdz> [LINK]  http://www.moblin.org/apt
[07:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.moblin.org/apt 
[07:15] <Mithrandir> part of the problem is having two repositories means we lose common ground and once something hits moblin, there's less incentive for anybody using moblin.org to push it further into Ubuntu.
[07:16] <mdz> rustyl: one idea would be to continue what you're doing with the moblin repository, but when you want to do a more official release, push it over into gutsy
[07:16] <mdz> Mithrandir: indeed
[07:16] <Mithrandir> given that we want everything to end up in Ubuntu (eventually), that's suboptimal.
[07:16] <rustyl> mdz, but the problem is that the image-creator (if not patched like in gutsy), pulls from both repositories
[07:16] <mdz> we see a degraded experience installing the Ubuntu builds on devices, compared to what you're seeing with builds based on moblin
[07:16] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: specially as moblin's are more up to date
[07:17] <mdz> rustyl: presumably you did that for a reason, no?
[07:17] <rustyl> mdz, and then developers fix various problems, and when they see the issue resolve from an image created by image-creator then they think of it as "done"
[07:17] <rustyl> mdz, yes, for the reason of making it very easy to do rapid development
[07:17] <mdz> rustyl: right, that's where we have a disconnect, and I'd like to try to get us closer to working with the same code base
[07:17] <Mithrandir> so we need to get them to not think of it as done, but only as "ok, this is the right fix, now I need to get it into Ubuntu"
[07:18] <rustyl> yea, we do
[07:18] <mdz> (fyi, I have a call in 12 minutes and will need to duck mostly out)
[07:18] <mdz> rustyl: perhaps one person could be responsible for pushing things into gutsy which are 'ready'
[07:19] <mdz> though I'm not sure there's a big difference between what we'd want in gutsy and what you are committing to git at this point
[07:19] <mdz> because we're in such an early stage
[07:19] <rustyl> we could start with one person, and I could take that on, but ideally the project maintainer would have that ability
[07:19] <Mithrandir> if nothing else, dropping me a mail or a line on IRC means I can check and upload.
[07:19] <mdz> rustyl: so in addition to some folks being able to push packages directly through  MOTU, we have the sync idea
[07:19] <rustyl> on the moblin side we need to rethink this a little
[07:20] <mdz> where Mithrandir or another Ubuntu archive admin can receive a request to put package X version Y into gutsy, and copy it straight over from moblin
[07:20] <Mithrandir> (though making me more critical-path than I already am is probably not a good idea, so getting some moblin people through MOTU is a good idea).
[07:20] <mdz> rustyl: do you want to take this back and discuss it with others, then raise it on the mailing list?
[07:21] <rustyl> yes, that would be good
[07:21] <mdz> we have all the tools we need, I think, just need to decide on a workflow which works for everyone
[07:21] <Mithrandir> move on?
[07:22] <mdz> ok
[07:22] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Status relative to upstream hildon
[07:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status relative to upstream hildon 
[07:22] <mdz> we took some snapshots when doing the initial packaging of hildon
[07:22] <bspencer> yes, we need to resync with their latest
[07:22] <mdz> and they've surely moved on since then, while we've been busy with other things
[07:22] <bspencer> and there are a few patches 3-4 which I don't think are upstream
[07:23] <agoliveira> Indeed
[07:23] <bspencer> very true
[07:23] <bspencer> so agoliveira and I should get this sync'd
[07:23] <mdz> I think there's a question to be asked, about whether this is something we need to pursue
[07:23] <bspencer> I'll get a summary of the patches I know and propose them on the hildon-libs mailing list
[07:23] <mdz> is it important to have the latest bits from hildon?  and if so, by what point in the release process?
[07:23] <bspencer> mdz, I think we should have a goal of using their Sept official release
[07:24] <mdz> sounds like it probably is, at least for some componetns
[07:24] <agoliveira> Right now hildon is still a moving target as they are refactoring a lot of things.
[07:24] <mdz> probably some more than others
[07:24] <bspencer> after that I don't think we need to track their daily changes until their next official releas
[07:24] <Mithrandir> I like the idea of using official releases from them
[07:24] <mdz> probably some we can safely track, and others are changing a lot as rustyl points out
[07:24] <agoliveira> +1
[07:24] <mdz> if they are doing milestone releases, that would be ideal
[07:24] <agoliveira> mdz: They don't
[07:24] <bspencer> so I think a sync again now, and again after Sept19th release (with GNOME) would be good.
[07:25] <bspencer> or if we want to wait until Sept, I am also fine with that.
[07:25] <mdz> alternatively, we could spend some time talking with upstream about their plans, and decide based on that
[07:25] <bspencer> we should do that
[07:25] <bspencer> in any case
[07:25] <Mithrandir> sync now and when they release sounds like a good plan, but also talking with upstream and seeing what they think.
[07:25] <Mithrandir> bspencer: can you do that?
[07:25] <bspencer> yes
[07:25] <rustyl> do we know if any of the upstream changes change the API's
[07:25] <bspencer> should I cross-post my question to ubuntu-mobile list and hildon-libs?
[07:26] <bspencer> rustyl, I don't know yet
[07:26] <agoliveira> bspencer: I think we can wait. Syncing now could introduce changes that would require us to fix our side too. One more delay.
[07:26] <mdz> bspencer: good idea
[07:26] <bspencer> rustyl, but Moises has usually kept me in the loop on new things, at least he did for a while
[07:26] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer to talk with hildon upstream about hildon release plans and what we should base ourselves on.
[07:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to talk with hildon upstream about hildon release plans and what we should base ourselves on. 
[07:26] <bspencer> got it.
[07:26] <mdz> agoliveira: are you subscribed to the hildon list(s)?
[07:26] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  rusty to discuss how to handle moving code from moblin->gutsy, follow up with discussion on ubuntu-mobile
[07:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  rusty to discuss how to handle moving code from moblin->gutsy, follow up with discussion on ubuntu-mobile 
[07:27] <agoliveira> mdz: Since the beginning.
[07:27] <bspencer> Mithrandir, so does Mootbot send an email after the meeting?
[07:27] <mdz> bspencer: it publishes an HTML summary
[07:27] <Mithrandir> bspencer: unsure, I'm looking forward to finding out.
[07:27] <bspencer> me too :)
[07:27] <Mithrandir> ok, so moving on.  I'd like to briefly touch on bug tracking before mdz runs off
[07:27] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Bug tracking
[07:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tracking 
[07:27] <agoliveira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[07:28] <mdz> two separate issues here
[07:28] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: I have a meeting in 2 minutes and will run off, I just received email from Steve Alexander about Launchpad/Bugzilla
[07:28] <mdz> one, there have been questions on the mailing list about where to file Ubuntu bugs which are specifically relevant to UME
[07:29] <mdz> two, what mawhalen said
[07:29] <mdz> I also have to run though
[07:29] <mawhalen> I'll follow up with Steve
[07:29] <mdz> we can cover this out of band
[07:29] <Mithrandir> ok, good, and we get a summary next week
[07:29] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  mdz and mawhalen to follow up on bug tracking discussions and report back next week or on mailing list
[07:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz and mawhalen to follow up on bug tracking discussions and report back next week or on mailing list 
[07:30] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  SDIO
[07:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  SDIO 
[07:30] <Mithrandir> rob_: you wanted to talk about sdio stuff?
[07:30] <rob_> so we were discussing last week about how/when to include Pierre's SDIO patch
[07:30] <rob_> amitk_, was going to discuss it with others at Ubuntu, so was there any update on that?
[07:31] <amitk_> rob_: unfortunately I didn't get a chance to talk to BenC before he left on vacation. He is back on Monday though, so I should be able to talk to him then
[07:32] <agoliveira> Sorry. I had to pick-up the mail... darn... only bills again. I should let the postman have them...
[07:32] <amitk_> what is the estimated schedule for Pierre's SDIO patch?
[07:33] <amitk_> we have a few more weeks for kernel freeze
[07:34] <rob_> amitk_, ok, then i'll wait for next for an answer. Pierre's stack is progressing and he's adding API support for hi-speed deivices... I think we can take Pierre's stack and have it working on Menlow HW by end of September (alpha quality) then a month or so to get it working with WLAN/BT multi-function cards
[07:34] <amitk_> rob_: in that case it won't go in Gutsy
[07:35] <Mithrandir> how modular is it?  Can we do it as an update?
[07:36] <amitk_> rob_: whether we pull it in an update is a decision that needs to be taken by BenC.
[07:36] <rob_> amitk_, then we should have BenC take a look at what Pierre has now
[07:37] <Mithrandir> amitk_: can you follow up on that with Ben?
[07:37] <rob_> amitk_, hold on a  minute, i'll give you the link
[07:37] <amitk_> rob_, Mithrandir: from what I have understood, it is somewhat of a rewrite of the MMC stack. That means it will break stuff in the beginning during the transition to the new stack.
[07:37] <robr> amitk_: here's a link with Pierre's code: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/drzeus/mmc.git;a=shortlog;h=sdio
[07:39] <amitk_> rob_: What we might end up doing is that this patchset will only be applied to the UME flavour, without disturbing Gutsy
[07:39] <rob_> amitk_, that would be safest
[07:40] <amitk_> rob_: in that case, we can put it in whenever you feel it is ready for testing
[07:40] <Mithrandir> and then it can go in in an update too?
[07:41] <amitk_> Mithrandir: are you asking me? ^^^
[07:42] <rob_> amitk_, that would be a good plan...not sure about the update question
[07:42] <Mithrandir> amitk_: yes, you're probably in the best position to answer it.
[07:43] <amitk_> Mithrandir: yes. It should be possible to push it into an update and _hope for the best_. I stress the last part because it is almost certain to cause regressions
[07:43] <Mithrandir> then we can upload new versions which fix those regressions
[07:43] <amitk_> but only the UME flavour should get affected
[07:43] <rob_> when you say update, does that mean for gutsy or for ume flavor?
[07:44] <Mithrandir> for the ume flavour in gutsy.
[07:44] <amitk_> right
[07:45] <rob_> ok. i'd rather fix the regressions than stick to our MSS patch which really only supports the Intel HW we've test against and doesn't co-exist with the current MMC stack
[07:45] <Mithrandir> ok, so we have agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions?
[07:46] <amitk_> [AGREE}
[07:46] <Mithrandir> [AGREE]  agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions.
[07:46] <Mithrandir> [AGREED]  agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions.
[07:46] <MootBot> AGREED received:  agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions. 
[07:46] <Mithrandir> that was the command
[07:47] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  lpia update
[07:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  lpia update 
[07:47] <Mithrandir> a small update from the world of LPIA.
[07:47] <Mithrandir> together with mdz and agoliveira, I fixed a bug in glib today which means all glib-using applications should be unblocked and we can get hildon-* built.
[07:48] <Mithrandir> http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-2.png is a Xephyr screenshot running on lpia, in a chroot.
[07:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-2.png is a Xephyr screenshot running on lpia, in a chroot. 
[07:48] <agoliveira> and we will be able to have a full lpia chroot to build stuff
[07:48] <Mithrandir> I'm hoping we can have daily lpia images in the middle of next week.
[07:49] <Mithrandir> so, quite happy news.
[07:49] <Mithrandir> any questions?
[07:50] <amitk_> Mithrandir: The LPIA kernel config should be identical to the current UME flavour, correct?
[07:50] <agoliveira> Quick note: the arch is being build as we speak
[07:50] <Mithrandir> amitk_: yes, I think so.
[07:51] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  amitk_ to sync lpia and ume kernel configs
[07:51] <MootBot> ACTION received:  amitk_ to sync lpia and ume kernel configs 
[07:51] <Mithrandir> there, now it's not just a mental note.
[07:51] <Mithrandir> move on?
[07:51] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Application status
[07:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Application status 
[07:51] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: the floor is yours.
[07:51] <agoliveira> Fine.
[07:52] <amitk_> Is mootbot going to nag about these actions too? :-p
[07:52] <agoliveira> After the changes on libosso and sapwood the appliactions that already have hildon support are very easy to compile so I already have dates, claws and I'm working on notes. I was suposed to send those to Tollef to upkload but I wanted to test on lpia first and this problem hold me a bit.
[07:53] <Mithrandir> amitk_: they'll be put on the intarweb
[07:53] <agoliveira> Anyway you can expect those applications to come out very fast now.
[07:53] <agoliveira> If it keeps that way we should have one per day or 2.
[07:53] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: I realise I start sounding like a broken record, but please make sure to push those bits upstream
[07:54] <bspencer> agoliveira, we are happy to hear that.  anxious to start playing with email so I can make a long list of "to do" for Frank to improve it
[07:54] <bspencer> agoliveira, will "Claws" have a new name for Hildon version?
[07:54] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: As I said, I wanted to be sure that trhe lpia arch works.
[07:54] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: yup, that's good
[07:54] <agoliveira> bspencer: NO, same name, different arch
[07:55] <agoliveira> So i386 will use gtk and lpia, hildon
[07:55] <bspencer> agoliveira, is there room for big changes there?  We aren't limited by anything if we change the app a lot?
[07:55] <agoliveira> bspencer: No problem, the source is the same you just need to be sure to respect the conditionals.
[07:56] <bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  How shall we best push changes to you for these applications?
[07:56] <Mithrandir> I suspect we want to use claws for the first version, but might want to base the next version off something else, like modest.
[07:56] <bspencer> all as patches in email ?
[07:56] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I compared both and claws won hands down.
[07:57] <agoliveira> bspencer: The ideal is to do the way we usually do, apt-get sources, hack, send to someone to upload.
[07:57] <agoliveira> bspencer: But you can send them to me as well.
[07:58] <agoliveira> Maybe in the future modest catch up.
[07:58] <bspencer> agoliveira, sorry for my ignorance.  So we have our own tree which you can see, then I tell you to look at it and merge?
[07:58] <bspencer> and you maintain the project?
[07:58] <agoliveira> bspencer: That's sometrhing we need to discuss. Shaw we focus on me or what?
[07:59] <agoliveira> I don't have a problem getting a patch, appliying and send to upload.
[07:59] <bspencer> well, Intel wants you to own it, but we want to add lots of patches :)
[07:59] <agoliveira> Intel wants to pay me extra for that too? :-D
[07:59] <agoliveira> Kidding...
[07:59] <bspencer> $$$ 
[08:00] <bspencer> "in the mail"
[08:00] <bspencer> ok.  we'll send patches
[08:00] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: YOur take on this?
[08:00] <agoliveira> bspencer: Just forget to ask for the Q1 back and we're done ;)
[08:00] <Mithrandir> sounds fine to me.
[08:00] <agoliveira> So it's a deal. Send those to me.
[08:00] <bspencer> agoliveira, I want to touch on chat and camera briefly
[08:01] <agoliveira> Sure
[08:01] <bspencer> chat:  we have an empathy chat app working we'll send for you to check out
[08:01] <agoliveira> Cool
[08:01] <bspencer> you had plans to use pidgin?
[08:01] <agoliveira> It's up to you actually.
[08:01] <Mithrandir> bspencer: have you given any thought on embedding video conferencing in the empathy-based app?
[08:01] <bspencer> both are probably good, but we wanted something unquestionably legal
[08:01] <agoliveira> I could use it.
[08:01] <Mithrandir> we don't want to use pidgin, which is problematic for legal reasons.
[08:02] <bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, we chatted with Rob McQeen about that yesterday
[08:02] <Mithrandir> bspencer: I saw it, yes.
[08:02] <agoliveira> bspencer: Just move the development to Brazil and you're done ;)
[08:02] <bspencer> so we'd like to get eyes on our current work.  I can take an action item to get Chat into ubuntu-mobile in the next week
[08:02] <bspencer> but our UI is still sorely in need of love.  I need more time!
[08:02] <agoliveira> yes, there's the legal crap...
[08:03] <Mithrandir> bspencer: getting it into ubuntu would be great, yes.
[08:03] <bspencer> ok.  and about camera...
[08:03] <bspencer> have you looked at lucview ?
[08:03] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer to work on getting chat app into Ubuntu
[08:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to work on getting chat app into Ubuntu 
[08:03] <agoliveira> bspencer: No I settled with Cheese. This one is new to me.
[08:03] <bspencer> ok.
[08:04] <bspencer> nothing really there.  We'll try and help a little on the camera app
[08:04] <bspencer> is Cheese in UME ?
[08:04] <Mithrandir> it'll be soon, yes.
[08:04] <bspencer> can I put it in the UI ?  :)
[08:04] <bspencer> ok.
[08:04] <agoliveira> bspencer: Not yet but it's in Gutsy
[08:04] <bspencer> we have not been successful in tracking down a driver for the Q1 or specs either
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mjg59: is working on pushing the hildon bits upstream
[08:05] <bspencer> agoliveira, who is working on Cheese?
[08:05] <bspencer> mjg59, -- is that a Cheesey guy?
[08:05] <Mithrandir> bspencer: mjg59, Matthew Garrett
[08:05] <bspencer> thx.
[08:05] <Mithrandir> we can test with an external webcam for now, I suspect
[08:05] <kwwii> he is quitre cheesy, indeed
[08:05] <bspencer> Mithrandir, that is what we're doing.
[08:05] <bspencer> but not really good for show demos next month
[08:05] <agoliveira> bspencer: Why is so diffigult to find the data about this camera?
[08:06] <Jack-Laptop> I think spacview is another choice ,have you tried that
[08:06] <agoliveira> Looks like is quite close to the Zyxel ones
[08:06] <bspencer> Jack-Laptop, I haven't.  I'll peek at that too.
[08:06] <Jack-Laptop> compare with  lucview
[08:06] <agoliveira> Jack-Laptop: I did but cheese was more promissing.
[08:06] <bspencer> agoliveira, yes, but all the data says "Vendor specific" and it doesn't "just work" with the video4linux stuff
[08:07] <bspencer> ok.  I don't have anything I can't chat with offline.
[08:07] <agoliveira> bspencer: Can't you pull someone's strings? You're Intel for JHC's sake :)
[08:07] <Jack-Laptop> I have enable video capture prototype with spacview before
[08:07] <bspencer> agoliveira, I'll see if the all-powerful Genie can assist.
[08:07] <agoliveira> Cool
[08:07] <bspencer> Jack-Laptop, that's interesting
[08:07] <Mithrandir> oh well, any more for mobile apps?
[08:07] <bspencer> not from me.
[08:07] <Mithrandir> or, any other business?
[08:08] <agoliveira> I'm cool
[08:08] <ian_brasil> who is the best person to contact about the docs on moblin.org?...i have a few things i would like to ask
[08:09] <Mithrandir> ok, adjourned.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> #endmeeting
[08:09] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:01.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> 20:09 <MootBot> Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
[08:09] <kyleN> Mithrandir, can I ask a quick question?
[08:09] <Mithrandir> kyleN: sure, shoot
[08:09] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: unsure, maybe rustyl knows.
[08:10] <ian_brasil> ok
[08:10] <kyleN> I see the gtk and mathbox themes are set in the file you pointed me too, but not the "icon theme". how is that set? 
[08:10] <rustyl> either myself or bspencer can get updates to moblin.org... or is it just a question?
[08:10] <Mithrandir> kyleN: I think that's sset in the gtk theme
[08:10] <ian_brasil> i will mail you then
[08:11] <rustyl> ok
[08:11] <kyleN> so it is referenced in the gtkrc file?
[08:11] <Mithrandir> kyleN: I believe so, yes.  bspencer probably knows better
[08:11] <kyleN> thx
[08:13] <kwwii> it is set in the gtkrc
[08:13] <kwwii> Mithrandir: you scared me earlier when you had that long path :-)
[08:14] <kwwii> Mithrandir: btw, any news on a device making it to me?
[08:14] <Mithrandir> kwwii: which one?  The one into /etc/X11/Xsession.d?
[08:14] <kwwii> Mithrandir: yeah :-)
[08:14] <Mithrandir> kwwii: I can check up on it in the confcall in a little bit.
[08:14] <Mithrandir> I spent a day mucking around there, so I think I should know the bits.
[08:14] <kwwii> that should set the theme to use, not the icon set I guess
[08:15] <bspencer> kwwii, kyleN :  I don't actually know how the icon theme is set
[08:16] <bspencer> I know how that you can set the overall theme when you launch the window manager
[08:16] <Mithrandir> kwwii: seen http://www.moblin.org/archives/html/dev/2007-08/msg00105.html ?
[08:16] <kyleN> .xinitrc specifies the gtkrc and matchbox themes, but I've yet to see where the icon theme is set
[08:17] <Mithrandir> # grep IconTheme /usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/index.theme
[08:17] <Mithrandir> IconTheme=default
[08:17] <Mithrandir> maybe that's the one you're looking for?
[08:18] <kyleN> that could be it, Mithrandir. I'll test by breaking it.
[08:18] <Mithrandir> :-)
[08:18] <agoliveira_BRB> I'm taking a break, be back in a few minunes
[08:18] <kwwii> Mithrandir: yes, I was looking at that last night
[08:19] <bspencer> so "default" is a symlink?
[08:19] <kyleN> my target has the following three icon theme dirs: hildon, gnome, and hicolor (which is the default)
[08:19] <bspencer> kyleN, yes, mine too.  And hildon gets used by many hildon things
[08:19] <bspencer> but hicolor gets used sometimes
[08:20] <kyleN> and gnome gets used for somethings!
[08:20] <kyleN> some things!
[08:20] <kwwii> the keyboard idea is well written but there are a few things I think we should discuss in the details of exactly which keys are needed most, etc.
[08:21] <kwwii> and we need to look into how many modifiers are needed to get to an extended set (or decide how far to extend it)
[08:21] <mjg59> Re: Cheese - I have a working Hildonised version, and I've been discussing it with upstream. It works well enough on my N800.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> kwwii: yup, that was the kind of input I want from you.
[08:21] <kwwii> kyleN, bspencer: none of those icons theme are complete, so they fallback
[08:22] <kwwii> kyleN, bspencer: and each theme can define a fallback itself, so there are funky hierarchies at play 
[08:22] <bspencer> kwwii, yes, I want to talk about that
[08:22] <bspencer> (kwwii keyboard that is)
[08:22] <bspencer> mjg59, so will upstream support having a Hildon version so we don't have to maintain a different tree?
[08:22] <kwwii> the full keyboard is a no-brainer, I think - just talking about the smaller one
[08:22] <mjg59> bspencer: Yes
[08:23] <bspencer> mjg59, great
[08:24] <bspencer> kwwii,  right.   Can we hash out a layout and look on the mailing list ?
[08:24] <bspencer> also, Mithrandir do you understand how Poky's keyboard autolaunches ?
[08:24] <kwwii> bspencer: certainly, I've started making the design already - should have something together sometime tomorrow
[08:24] <bspencer> Mithrandir, we'd like to get that working and we assumed we needed either a Gtk patch or Hildon patch
[08:24] <bspencer> kwwii, you da man
[08:24] <Mithrandir> bspencer: yes.
[08:25] <kyleN> kwwii: it this fallback via the "Inherits" key (which is absent in all my index.theme files)
[08:25] <kwwii> kyleN: lol, yeah, it would have been
[08:26] <kwwii> kyleN: that would tell me that only certain apps/pieces/whatever are looking for icons in the hildon theme, or that only a few hildon icons exist
[08:26] <Mithrandir> bspencer: I uploaded a version of matchbox-keyboard which does autolaunching yesterday.
[08:27] <Mithrandir> bspencer: so if you start matchbox-keyboard -d in a shell, it should pop up and go away as you play
[08:27] <kyleN> kwwii: actually most images are not in icons themes, but in theme folders, such as /usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/images/mb_drop_down_menu.png
[08:28] <kwwii> kyleN: ouch, that is nasty (and another reason why changing themes will break the look)
[08:28] <kwwii> the idea would be to have as few app specific icons as possible
[08:28] <kyleN> but some are, such as the calculator icon on the Extras menu bar which is in the gnome icon theme dir
[08:28] <bspencer> Mithrandir, oooo
[08:29] <Mithrandir> bspencer: I just need to find out if it exits with the session, if so, I can enable it by default in the session startup.
[08:29] <bspencer> kyleN, thanks to me
[08:29] <bspencer> kyleN, I put everything in the "images" folder until I could get a clue
[08:29] <kwwii> we should probably get tigert in on this discussion as he would know exactly why they did things
[08:29] <kyleN> not to pile on, but then there's the top left menu image (of the desktop) which is here:home/kyle/p001/targets/t001/fs/usr/share/pixmaps/mb_apps_menu.png
[08:29] <bspencer> and I was hoping kwwii had an extra clue for me to get
[08:30] <bspencer> it is also in the "images" directory?
[08:30] <bspencer> kyleN, I wonder if that is cached by hildon in the pixmaps dir?  Hmm...
[08:30] <kyleN> yes, but the one in images isn't used
[08:31] <kwwii> in any case, all the icons should be in theme dirs unless it is app specific
[08:31] <kwwii> and all names should follow the xdg naming spec
[08:31] <kyleN> ok & ok
[08:32] <bspencer> yep
[08:32] <kyleN> I am still uncertain where the default icon theme is set...
[08:33] <Mithrandir> agoliveira_BRB: your libosso fix doesn't look right, why do you need it, and why do you think it fixes anything?
[08:33] <kwwii> if I actually had an instance running I could probably help more ;-)
[08:33] <bspencer> kwwii, have you gotten one running before?
[08:34] <Mithrandir> kwwii: once apt and friends are installable again, you should be able to get it running.  I can walk you through it in a little bit?
[08:34] <kwwii> bspencer: nope, I tried twice (a while ago) and gave up
[08:34] <kwwii> Mithrandir: that would be great
[08:35] <bspencer> kwwii, can we chat sometime tomorrow with you, me, and horace (intel guy) via irc about theming work we can help with ?
[08:35] <bspencer> (not the graphics, but the other parts)
[08:36] <bspencer> we've talked about some tools that would make life easier and we could help with these.
[08:36] <kyleN> is the hope that UME will support user settable themes?
[08:36] <kwwii> bspencer: definitely :-)
[08:36] <kwwii> kyleN: yes, that would be desirable, I think
[08:36] <bspencer> kyleN, eventually 
[08:37] <kyleN> cool. I've simply got to go eat. thx all. 
[08:37] <bspencer> kyleN, I think:  1) get a theme working correctly.  2) document how to change the theme (for ODMs), 3) add support for user-changability 
[08:38] <bspencer> kwwii -- asac wants hildon theming to work for Gtk menus too
[08:38] <kyleN> bspencer, yes, those seem like the steps. I guess 1) isn't there yet
[08:38] <bspencer> so he doesn't have to change mozilla as much
[08:38] <kwwii> bspencer: that would make things much easier - mozilla themes suck to make
[08:39] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: IIRC, in the last changes I just fixed the headers so it compiles ok with the current dbus.
[08:39] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: uh, no, it should compile completely fine without those changes.
[08:39] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you're using pkg-config to get the correct set of compilation flags, aren't you?
[08:40] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: libosso itself yes but programs that deppends on it does not.
[08:40] <agoliveira> Yes, of course
[08:40] <Mithrandir> applications that depend on libosso should use pkg-config too
[08:40] <asac> msg -freenode bspencer i think that would be ok if they are eager to learn and some accustomed on how to build/test/work on large code-bases.
[08:40] <kwwii> bspencer: erm, you said gtk menus...I assumed that it already supported that (not sure how I got mozilla out of that)
[08:40] <asac> ups
[08:41] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Like mauli.h IIRC
[08:41] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > pkg-config --cflags libosso
[08:41] <Mithrandir> -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include
[08:41] <Mithrandir> so the relative include in the osso header files should Just Work
[08:42] <bspencer> kwwii, yeah, so the theme would cover standard GtkMenus in addition to Hildon menus
[08:42] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Some header files have a differnt set of includes.
[08:43] <bspencer> kwwii, what time do you have now?  7:45pm?
[08:43] <kwwii> bspencer: 8:45pm
[08:43] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: where can I find the package you did those changes for?
[08:43] <bspencer> when can i setup a meeting tom?  I'm trying to coordinate PRC guy and me
[08:44] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Didn't I commted it?
[08:44] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you committed the changes to libosso to bzr, yes.  I believe they are wrong and would like you to show me an application where they are needed. (And where the application isn't just buggy)
[08:44] <kwwii> bspencer: it's 11:45 there now?
[08:45] <bspencer> kwwii, how about 4pm tomrrow?  That's 11pm PRC, and 8am for me.
[08:45] <bspencer> he can chat from home.
[08:45] <kwwii> bspencer: sure, I can do that
[08:45] <bspencer> or 3pm maybe instead.  10pm PRC, 7am me.
[08:45] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Maybe I got it wrong but if you want to try, get dates for instance.
[08:45] <kwwii> whatever is best is fine by me
[08:46] <bspencer> ok.  you are +9.  So 7am PDT, 4pm Germany, 10pm China
[08:46] <bspencer> work ok?
[08:46] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: from the archive, or from where?
[08:46] <kwwii> bspencer: sounds great
[08:46] <kwwii> I'll note that time
[08:46] <bspencer> thx.
[08:46] <bspencer> see you here then.   I'm taking off now for a bit
[08:46] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sorry, I just can't think very straight right now, I'm just too freaking tired... hold on.
[08:48] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'm sending you the dates source I tested with UME and works.
[08:49] <Mithrandir> uh, please just put it on people.ubuntu.com or something, don't send large file via email.
[08:49] <kwwii> bspencer: have fun, see you soon
[08:49] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: hold on
[08:49] <Mithrandir> rustyl: just to double-check; current mobile-basic-flash git is ok to upload?
[08:50] <rustyl> Mithrandir, yes, it is ok to upload
[08:51] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: http://diemicrosoftdie.com/dates.tar.bz2
[08:51] <Mithrandir> coolie, uploaded.
[08:53] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Got it?
[08:53] <Mithrandir> sure
[08:55] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Let me know if I screwd it up.
[08:55] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: seems like it compiles fine both on amd64 and in a lpia chroot
[08:55] <Mithrandir> with just stock packages
[08:58] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: You mean with the current libosso?
[08:58] <Mithrandir> yes, with what's in the archive already
[08:58] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: That's just great... I don't know what the heck is going on with me...
[08:58] <agoliveira> Can you run the lpia resulting package on your chroot to see if you get the hildon interface
[09:00] <agoliveira> Can you also upload dates? If this compiles fine on lpia for you so I can give you claws as well.
[09:03] <Mithrandir> I can once I'm done with this phone call
[09:03] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, do you prefer I send you the full source like this for uploading or what?
[09:03] <agoliveira> Sure
[09:05] <Mithrandir> diffs are usually better
[09:10] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ok, I'll just push a Claws deppendency first.
[09:20] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: join the moblin channel
[09:23] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Could you please also add osso-browser-interface that I just pushed to your list of things to upload? Claws deppends on it.
[09:27] <AndyGraybeal> so this is more for tablets, and not pocketpc's ?
[09:27] <AndyGraybeal> like an ipaq
[09:28] <agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
[09:29] <agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: In short, yes, at least for now.
[09:29] <AndyGraybeal> rad, thanks
[09:31] <AndyGraybeal> :)
[09:31] <ian_brasil> that will save *a lot* of time and effort
[09:31] <agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: Sorry, nothing personal, it's just that similar questions pops up here several times a day
[09:32] <AndyGraybeal> agoliveira, no problem, i understand.... i got excited when i saw #ubuntu-mobile !!
[09:32] <MTecknology> hi...
[09:32] <AndyGraybeal> i about pooped my pants :)
[09:32] <MTecknology> i didn't know this channel existed
[09:32] <agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: We expect to be there someday...
[09:32] <MTecknology> is there a version of ubuntu just for tablets pc's or is this more of a support channel?
[09:32] <AndyGraybeal> agoliveira, that's rad.. i'm using familiar right now :)  along with opie, i enjoy it
[09:33] <agoliveira> MTecknology: I didn't know that you existed too so we're even ;)
[09:33] <agoliveira> MTecknology: UME is under heavy development yet. No release was done.
[09:33] <MTecknology> :(
[09:34] <MTecknology> much appreciated though
[09:34] <agoliveira> But you can give it a try: check this out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
[09:34] <MTecknology> i can't - for the love of god - get my tablet to work
[09:34] <MTecknology> my stylus and screen rotation and such
[09:34] <agoliveira> MTecknology: Check the docs. You can at least run it in a chroot
[09:35] <agoliveira> So you can at least take a look.
[09:35] <MTecknology> i'm willing to shrink my ubuntu partition and migrate to it when it is released
[09:35] <agoliveira> MTecknology: But as I said, it's under heavy dev. so don't blame us if it just don't work for you
[09:35] <MTecknology> i'm only using 3.2 of 40G for ubuntu now
[09:36] <MTecknology> vista is, of course, taking up plenty of its 40G
[09:36] <agoliveira> MTecknology: Be aware that this is not a desktop replacement. It's really meant to things like webpads.
[09:36] <MTecknology> ?
[09:36] <agoliveira> Heavy usage of fullscreen, hildon interface, etc
[09:37] <MTecknology> will this come out to be more of an addon to ubuntu?
[09:37] <agoliveira> Please, read the faq: " The Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded project aims to derive an operating system for mobile internet devices using Ubuntu as a base."
[09:38] <ian_brasil> does anyone now what port i need to open in a firewall to do a git clone rsync://moblin.org/repos/tools/moblin-image-creator.git
[09:38] <ian_brasil> ?
[09:38] <Sciri> rsync operates on port 873 on tcp and udp...
[09:39] <ian_brasil> thx
[09:39] <Sciri> But I don't know your firewall config so I'm not sure if that'll help :)
[09:39] <ian_brasil> i need to do port forwarding so i will give 873 a shot
[09:39] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: No idea. But I guess you can do this git clone http://...
[09:40] <Sciri> Aha...gotcha. And ian, for future reference, most ports are listed in /etc/services:
[09:40] <Sciri> dyn-003:~/Desktop sean$ grep rsync /etc/services 
[09:40] <Sciri> rsync           873/udp     # rsync
[09:40] <Sciri> rsync           873/tcp     # rsync
[09:41] <ian_brasil> excellent
[09:42] <MTecknology> agoliveira, so if you're going to use the same repos and everything, I should just be able to install the the packages on top of gusty when everything is said and done, right?
[09:42] <MTecknology> or the other way around?
[09:43] <agoliveira> MTecknology: Install the packages, yes but it's a different arch. The idea is the other way around, you can install many (maybe all) gutsy packages on UME 
[09:43] <MTecknology> sounds excellent
[09:44] <MTecknology> so when it's all ready for ppl to use in a production environment i could install it to a new partition, install gusty packages, move over my data, expand the partition... then know everything will work w/o any risk
[09:45] <MTecknology> how hard would it be for a novice like me to help develop this?
[09:50] <agoliveira> MTecknology: Well, it deppends on what you want to do. You can hang around this channel, sing in on ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com and jump in when you feel you can be of assistence.
[09:50] <MTecknology> I mean like... http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[09:54] <agoliveira> MTecknology: That's a good general start
[09:56] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: it tries to start, but segfaults.
[09:57] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you use the latest sapwood? IIRC there was this problem.
[09:57] <Mithrandir> hah, there it worked
[09:57] <Mithrandir> it wasn't too happy about being started through emacs (don't ask)
[09:58] <Mithrandir> http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-3.png
[09:58] <Mithrandir> \o/
[10:00] <Mithrandir> icons are busted, but otherwise it looks good
[10:00] <agoliveira> The icons problem is known.
[10:01] <agoliveira> But that's the way it should look.
[10:52] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you going to stay around a bit after the meeting?
[10:53] <Mithrandir> no, it's close to 23:00 here now, so I'm going to sleep soonish
[10:53] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'll send you claws and maybe notes later. Could you please take care of them tomorrow?
[10:54] <Mithrandir> please just send me URLs and yes, I'll poke them tomorrow then
[10:54] <agoliveira> No problem. Thanks.