[12:14] <imbrandon> eta?
[12:15] <Rinchen> sabdfl announced it at Ubuntu Live but you may not have heard.
[12:15] <ajmitch> most of us couldn't afford to be there :)
[12:15] <sistpoty> Rinchen, LaserJock: nice, I'll happily look at that ;)
[12:15] <Rinchen> imbrandon, no eta yet.  We've got the gang together to look at the approach on the 27th
[12:15] <Rinchen> imbrandon, so I suspect it'll be some time yet but we're all excited.
[12:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:16] <Rinchen> The good news is once we put the plan together you can, like all things now, track it on LP via the release cycles
[12:17] <LaserJock> Rinchen: yeah, we could use some sanatized spec pages :-)
[12:17] <Rinchen> ajmitch, I'll look into that. I suspect the internals will be private for now but the API interface docs will be public and perhaps even have some sample code.
[12:17] <LaserJock> not like the ones the government puts out that are all black ;-)
[12:18] <ajmitch> Rinchen: that would help
[12:18] <ajmitch> then we could give some feedback on the API & what we need
[12:18] <Rinchen> hehe, as above I think for the API's, at this point in time, it'll be end user docs on how to use it. (There is the whole concept of how to secure the API's from abuse that needs to be investigated, etc.)
[12:19] <Rinchen> anyway, wanted to give you guys a heads up.
[12:19] <Rinchen> oh
[12:19] <Rinchen> if you have any USE CASES or design ideas, please email them to me by next Friday
[12:19] <Rinchen> joey@canonical.com
[12:20] <Rinchen> I'll see they are added
[12:20] <Rinchen> for consideration of course
[12:21] <ajmitch> we can try
[12:21] <Rinchen> The more use cases we have the better the system will be
[12:23] <ScottK> Rinchen: I'd suggest looking at the code of some of the apps that scrape the LP web interface.
[12:23] <Rinchen> anyway, LaserJock - I've asked the team to schedule your malone and soyuz MOTU bugs for 1.1.9 as well.
[12:23] <LaserJock> Rinchen: thanks
[12:23] <Rinchen> ScottK, if you have any, let me know. The only ones I have are the email processing kind.
[12:23] <Rinchen> ScottK, like ubuntustats
[12:24] <LaserJock> hehe, I've got one, but it's been kinda obsoleted
[12:24] <ScottK> I don't recall.
[12:24] <LaserJock> screen-scraper for +packagebugs
[12:24] <Rinchen> LaserJock, is it still in use?
[12:25] <LaserJock> kinda, I think it still runs
[12:25] <LaserJock> but it was more of a workaround
[12:25] <LaserJock> and the immediate issue got fixed
[12:25] <LaserJock> although there's more to do
[12:25] <Rinchen> well, running and being useful are two different things. :-)  If the data is used by someone, like motu for example, then I'll have it considered.
[12:26] <LaserJock> well, sadly it's on the REVU server that went down
[12:27] <Rinchen> REVU was on the externally hosted servers I take it
[12:27] <LaserJock> yep
[12:27] <ScottK> Yes.
[12:27] <Rinchen> hmpf
[12:28] <LaserJock> sistpoty: are we going to get the data from tiber back?
[12:28] <sistpoty> LaserJock: we could, if we wanted to. However after speaking with siretart today, I consider it a feature that the old packages are gon
[12:29] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well, I was thinking more our ~/
[12:29] <Rinchen> well, I'll leave you guys to it. I just wanted to drop in to let you know about what I'm doing LaserJock. Feel free to ping me on #launchpad or pm me.
[12:29] <Rinchen> Have a good weekend.
[12:29] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I've got some bzr branches on tiber
[12:29] <sistpoty> LaserJock: nonetheless, you can ask Ng in #canonical-sysadmin (or elmo, he helped me tonight) if you're interested in a particular file/directory
[12:29] <nixternal> 17:27:46              ScottK cannot help but note that REVU is also FOSS.
[12:29] <nixternal> :D
[12:30] <nixternal> I was wondering when someone was going to snapback with that
[12:30] <ajmitch> someone? I knew it'd be ScottK
[12:30] <ScottK> I did my best to restrain myself.
[12:30] <ScottK> When I said "cannot help", I meant it.
[12:30] <nixternal> ajmitch: ya, I thought you maybe, and then I seen imbrandon give a winky smile, and even LaserJock
[12:31] <nixternal> I figured it was coming, just didn't think it would take so long
[12:31] <nixternal> LaserJock: I am willing to bet the taste of blood in your mouth is horrible from biting your tongue :)
[12:31] <nixternal> probably don't have a tongue anymore after biting it that hard :D
[12:32] <LaserJock> heh
[12:33] <ScottK> Fire away LaserJock.  I get offended when proprietary system developers ask me to do their work for them for free.
[12:34] <LaserJock> well, I don't want it to be taken wrong so I don't think I should say anything
[12:34] <nixternal> ya
[12:34] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[12:35] <nixternal> is there an "Open source LP now" bug yet?
[12:35] <ScottK> OK.  Probably just as well.  I'm certain I'm unduly hot under the collar right now.
[12:35] <ScottK> Yes.
[12:35] <nixternal> hehe
[12:35] <ScottK> IIRC marked Medium/In Progress.
[12:35] <nixternal> haha
[12:36] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, my comments aren't for you, don't worry
[12:36] <ScottK> OK
[12:36] <LaserJock> I recognize the effort that's gone into REVU, I really do
[12:37] <LaserJock> and I think it's served us well
[12:37] <sistpoty> nixternal: ther e is, just look at sabdfl's most active bugs ;)
[12:37] <LaserJock> but I don't think it's being FLOSS has really mattered one bit
[12:37] <LaserJock> the code is freely available and hardly ever worked on
[12:37] <LaserJock> I'd rather have code that gets worked on and is proprietary than FLOSS that just sits there
[12:38] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's true, but a few people have submitted patches (the most recent being to keep uploaders from advocating their own packages).
[12:38] <ScottK> REVU is largely satisfactory for what it does.
[12:38] <LaserJock> I agree
[12:38] <ScottK> If there were more problems with it, then more patches would happen.
[12:39] <LaserJock> but my experience has been that it being FLOSS has helped us little
[12:39] <ScottK> I prefer tools that the community has control over versus stuff that random strangers change on a whim.
[12:39] <LaserJock> sure
[12:39] <LaserJock> I do too
[12:39] <sistpoty> well, my opinion lately is pretty plain: if there's s.th. that works better, use that. However since there have been arguments for solutions that work worse in the past, I may have become a little bit stubborn
[12:39] <ScottK> And that's pretty much how I view LP.
[12:40] <LaserJock> I just want to get the job done
[12:40] <sistpoty> hehe
[12:40] <LaserJock> if there are two equal apps to do that and one is FLOSS and the other isn't, I'd like us to prefer the FLOSS solution
[12:40] <ScottK> I will tell you where it really matters for me.
[12:41] <LaserJock> but if one suits our needs better I'm not so concerned about it's freeness
[12:41] <ScottK> If someone in the community asked me to invest my time in figuring out how to make revu or devscripts work better for us, I'd do it.
[12:41] <LaserJock> REVU was working well for us long before LP was half-way usable
[12:41] <ScottK> When an LP dev wants me to volunteer to design his system for him, I'm not going to.
[12:41] <ScottK> He's paid to do that, and so he should.
[12:42] <LaserJock> that makes sense to me
[12:42] <sistpoty> ScottK: please find out how to make revu better :P
[12:42] <LaserJock> although providing bug reports and feedback is always nice, regardless
[12:42] <ScottK> sistpoty: I just don't feel there's really much wrong with it on the outside (I'm sure from your comments today it's much different on the inside).
[12:43] <ScottK> LaserJock: Bug reports sure.  System design, no.
[12:43] <ScottK> If LP is a service and I shouldn't worry, then it's up to the service provider to do the heavy lifting.
[12:43] <LaserJock> I'd love to just stop taking NEW packages, that'd solve the problem ;-)
[12:44] <sistpoty> ScottK: given that I still haven't managed to set it up there must be s.th. wrong (or I'm just not capable *g)
[12:44] <ScottK> sistpoty: Yeah.  That's the ugly on the inside part.
[12:44] <LaserJock> well, it doesn't build debs and provide a repo
[12:44] <ScottK> That's true.
[12:44] <LaserJock> I think that might become an important thing for us to do
[12:45] <LaserJock> I hadn't thought about it that much
[12:45] <LaserJock> but we really don't do much other than look at the source package
[12:45] <ScottK> And I don't doubt that we can make PPAs part of a good backend for that.
[12:45] <LaserJock> I also find the REVU frontpage kinda difficult unless I know what package I'm looking for
[12:46] <ScottK> Personally, I also build them and unpack the .debs (ark is good for that) to make sure they aren't doing weird stuff.
[12:46] <LaserJock> sure
[12:46] <ScottK> Agreed, but I don't think LP is a model of unuitiveness and orderliness either.
[12:47] <LaserJock> but I think we might want to get into a mode where we're asking a bit more if we *should* have the package in Universe not if we *can*
[12:47] <ScottK> I guess the other thing is I think the LP U/I is getting worse not better.
[12:47] <ScottK> Agreed, but that's different than the tools.
[12:47] <LaserJock> we create and awful lot of work for ourselves if we pump Universe full of crappy apps
[12:48] <LaserJock> ScottK: I'm not sure what's overly hard about treating a package review via a bug report
[12:48] <LaserJock> we're already filing bugs to ask for packages to be done
[12:49] <LaserJock> why not just complete the circle in one bug
[12:49] <nixternal> heh, we could create a new repo called "crappy" :D
[12:49] <ScottK> Well this just rehashes the "we are trying to do stuff in two places and that sucks" arguement.
[12:49] <sistpoty> don't tell me that I'm fiddling with a revu setup for nothing :P
[12:49] <ScottK> sistpoty: NO.  You aren't
[12:49] <nixternal> deb http://.../ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse crappy
[12:49] <nixternal> hehe
[12:49] <LaserJock> nixternal: I was thinking of something like that today
[12:49] <sistpoty> hehe, but I'm close to despair right now *g*
[12:50] <nixternal> heh, I was sadly just joking...I think the PPAs could do this for us, no?
[12:50] <ScottK> Which is why I think we should quit doing the LP bug thing.  If there happens to be a needs-packaging bug, fine, but not a requirement.
[12:50] <LaserJock> well, I understand not wanting to lock into something
[12:51] <sistpoty> imo limiting packages will be not the easiest thing. I guess starting out with some metrics of how packages in ubuntu have been cared for in the past, and optionally removing these might be suited beter
[12:51] <sistpoty> s/beter/better/
[12:51] <LaserJock> but it gets really really confusing for people when we don't have a canonical system
[12:51] <ScottK> Right.  So we should stop trying to use LP for tracking packaging progress.
[12:51] <LaserJock> why?
[12:51] <ScottK> Why did we start?
[12:51] <LaserJock> because wiki pages suck
[12:52] <LaserJock> filing a bug is more intuitive
[12:52] <LaserJock> like a feature request or a request ticket
[12:52] <LaserJock> they don't want to edit a wiki page
[12:52] <ScottK> Sure.  I think that's a fine way for a user to say "someone please do this".
[12:52] <LaserJock> right
[12:53] <sistpoty> LaserJock: do I get it right that you think it's bad (for the workflow) if not everthing is tied into LP?
[12:53] <ScottK> That doesn't mean it needs to be tied into our "how we do this" process.
[12:53] <LaserJock> so if we already have a list of packages that are requested, why not go all the way?
[12:53] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I think where possible we should be consistent
[12:54] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, I think that of course also would be optimal, but we just won't get there...
[12:54] <LaserJock> well no
[12:54] <LaserJock> but it seems logical to me to use a bug report
[12:54] <sistpoty> just think of MoM, which is essential to ubuntu but by far no part of LP
[12:55] <LaserJock> I'd hardly call it essential, but yeah
[12:55] <ScottK> LaserJock: How many packages have you packaged because someone filed a needs-packaging bug?
[12:55] <LaserJock> not a single one in Ubuntu :-)
[12:55] <LaserJock> is that they way it should be? I'm not so sure
[12:55] <ScottK> Most packaging happens because the packager is interested in a package.
[12:55] <LaserJock> but that's beside the point
[12:55] <ScottK> No, it's not.
[12:56] <LaserJock> yes
[12:56] <LaserJock> it is
[12:56] <ScottK> The point is that the needs-packaging bugs are almost entirely unrelated to what gets packaged.
[12:56] <sistpoty> well, if a bug report can provide the same (or better) features, it makes sense. However especially to give a possible reviewer an overview I find difficult
[12:56] <LaserJock> I'm not saying that I want everybody to be forced to only do needs-packaging bugs
[12:56] <LaserJock> what I'm saying is that is already a source of info for packaging NEW
[12:56] <ScottK> LP is not currently the starting point for our process for getting something packaged in virtually all cases.
[12:57] <LaserJock> I'm also saying that Debian uses bugs
[12:57] <ScottK> Sure.
[12:57] <LaserJock> many people are used to using bugs for these things
[12:57] <jussi01> hello everyone
[12:57] <ScottK> For "I want/am doing this package"
[12:57] <ScottK> Not for here's what needs to be changed in the package.
[12:57] <sistpoty> LaserJock: no, debian uses mentors for reviewing, but bugs for tracking wnpp ;)
[12:57] <LaserJock> so I don't know why it's an illogical thing to do
[12:57] <LaserJock> gosh that's my stinking point
[12:58] <LaserJock> but if you look at wnpp bugs they often discuss the progress of the package
[12:58] <jussi01> hmmm, can I jump in?
[12:58] <ScottK> Because LP is slow, painful to navigate, and I'd really rather not get stuck dealing with it more than I have to.
[12:58] <LaserJock> I would love to see LP+ubuntu-motu-mentors used
[12:58] <ScottK> jussi01: Sure
[12:58] <sistpoty> LaserJock: sure, but it's imo orthogonal (which may be a design flaw though *g*)
[12:59] <LaserJock> I think tying it up a bit more
[12:59] <jussi01> Just from what I see, needs packaging bugs ar extremely useful to people like myself, who need a something to do/ideas
[12:59] <LaserJock> doing an ITP bug report (or taking over a needs-packging bugs) then following that report
[12:59] <LaserJock> adding in PPA for the actual package handling and bzr when people want to us VCS
[01:00] <LaserJock> it kinda seems like a logical thing
[01:00] <LaserJock> the elements are pretty much there
[01:00] <ScottK> If I could navigate it quickly, intuitively, and reliably, I'd agree.
[01:00] <sistpoty> and having revu on top of this framework to allow easy reviewing :)
[01:00] <LaserJock> what I *don't* see is a good way to have an overview of it
[01:00] <ScottK> The pieces are there.
[01:00] <LaserJock> ScottK: what is there to navigate?
[01:00] <LaserJock> you could do the whole thing without the web UI
[01:01] <ajmitch> sistpoty: sure, have REVU pull a list of needs-packaging bugs :)
[01:01] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I'm fiddling with revu processing incoming packages atm. :P
[01:01] <ScottK> LaserJock: On revu, if I want the history of a package, I go to one page and it's all right there with debdiffs of mulitple versions of the same revision.
[01:01] <jussi01> it would be helpful if packagers actually updated the bugs though, so many I come across are being packaged but nothing is mentioned on the bug
[01:02] <LaserJock> ScottK: yes the debdiff thing is one of my "hmm, how do we do that" points
[01:02] <Fujitsu> enyc: Etch was released almost a year later, so it's not surprising they're different...
[01:02] <enyc> Whereas, ubuntu has many things only in universe, when Debian Etch4.0 suports them in main...
[01:03] <ScottK> The one thing I miss out of the package page on revu is the ability to do a diff of the debian dir only.
[01:03] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'm g uessing PPAs wouldn't allow the same version to be uploaded multiple times like REVU does.
[01:03] <Fujitsu> enyc: Erm, Etch doesn't have supported/unsupported as such.
[01:03] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: It doesn't, though removal should be coming soon.
[01:03] <TheMuso> RIght.
[01:03] <enyc> Fujitsu: yes... not same as Ubuntu
[01:03] <enyc> Fujitsu: i know
[01:04] <mok0> Couldn't uploaders just bump the -0ubuntuX number for each upload?
[01:04] <Fujitsu> mok0: Eeeeeek, no.
[01:04] <Fujitsu> ~ppaX, please.
[01:04] <Fujitsu> And cleaning the changelog before -0ubuntu1 is uploaded would be sane.
[01:05] <LaserJock> it would depend for me how many bumps it needed ;-)
[01:05] <LaserJock> but ~ppaX is the sane way to go
[01:05] <Fujitsu> For some it's... quite a lot.
[01:05] <ScottK> mok0: No.  That'd end up with ubuntu42 being the first version in the archive.
[01:05] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: why? it was released to the public via ppa with that distinct version, wasn't it?
[01:06] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: Not entirely sure we want an enormous number of changelog entries in the initial package, really.
[01:06] <mok0> ScottK: No, it would be -1ubuntu
[01:06] <ScottK> Then it shouldn't have an Ubuntu revision at all.
[01:06] <Fujitsu> Fixing trivial packaging mistakes and the like.
[01:06] <sistpoty> (same as a DD left in my changelog entries because he adopted my ubuntu package)
[01:06] <Fujitsu> mok0: No, -0ubuntu
[01:07] <sistpoty> though that's really details :P
[01:07] <mok0> Fujitsu: Isn't first proper release 1ubuntu ?
[01:07] <ScottK> In fact, now that I think of it, I think it would be good if PPA didn't allow revisions with ubuntu in the revision number.
[01:07] <Fujitsu> mok0: No...
[01:07] <Fujitsu> Aha, Soyuz Karma is targeted for 1.1.9.. I wonder how they'll do that.
[01:07] <sistpoty> damn, then I'll need to upload s.th. again, right?
[01:07] <mok0> Then we could use something like -0ubuntu0.1 ... etc
[01:07] <ScottK> mok0: And you did it right on kssh.  You had me scared for a minute that I missed that when I uploaded it.
[01:08] <mok0> ScottK: :-)
[01:08] <ScottK> No, I think ppa shouldn't have ubuntu at all since it's not an ubuntu package.
[01:08] <sistpoty> -0ppa1 < -0ubuntu1.. I guess that'd work
[01:08] <mok0> I was just today thinking why the notes and package revisions done during mentoring shouldn't appear in changelog
[01:09] <TheMuso> mok0: I am not so sure I would like that.
[01:09] <sistpoty> mok0: because most of these are useless (e.g. package FTBFS)
[01:09] <mok0> It would leave a log for people to learn from
[01:09] <ScottK> mok0: Those are available via the REVU comments if people want them.
[01:09] <ajmitch> ScottK: then we should use -0revu1 for anything on REVU
[01:10] <ScottK> ajmitch: Except we aren't distributing binaries.
[01:10] <ajmitch> so?
[01:10] <ajmitch> we have built binaries in the past on REVU
[01:10] <LaserJock> I'd think -0ubuntu0ppa1 would work or something similar
[01:10] <sistpoty> ajmitch: but these weren't world-readable
[01:10] <TheMuso> LaserJock: that looks ugly
[01:10] <ScottK> Also it's from a spot that's not part of the official infrastructure.
[01:10] <ajmitch> sistpoty: they sometimes were :)
[01:11] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: There isn't an `ooh, clicky clicky give me binaries' button on REVU (there will be on LP soon)
[01:11] <sistpoty> but that was a bug :P
[01:11] <LaserJock> as the packages are built for Ubuntu and will eventually become 0ubuntu1 it seems a shame to ditch it
[01:11] <LaserJock> sistpoty: hehe, your "bug" is LPs feature ;-)
[01:12] <TheMuso> The thing is, if we have crazy versions, the packager doesn't learn about official versioning, and is likely to confuse them more.
[01:12] <TheMuso> s/is/its/
[01:12] <TheMuso> And I think packagers get overwhelmed enough sometimes with what we ask of them.
[01:15] <jussi01> I have to agree with TheMuso here...
[01:15] <jussi01> btw, what is ppa?
[01:15] <LaserJock> TheMuso: if things are properly documented it's not quite so bad
[01:15] <TheMuso> Personal Package Archive.
[01:16] <TheMuso> LaserJock: For those who read docs, yes.
[01:16] <TheMuso> LaserJock: But I fear that many don't.
[01:17] <LaserJock> then they've got bigger problems
[01:18] <Fujitsu> Do we have some stats on how many new packages get touched after initially uploaded?
[01:19] <TheMuso> I guess thats the big question isn't it.
[01:19] <ScottK> Fujitsu: You mean NEW packages REVUed being touched/modified before going to the archive?
[01:19] <TheMuso> ScottK: I think he means once they are in the archive.
[01:19] <ScottK> Ah.
[01:19] <sistpoty> that's s.th. I think is long overdue for motu-land.
[01:20] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yes.
[01:20] <TheMuso> sistpoty: s.th?
[01:20] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: you mean packages that *aren't* just dumped into the archive?
[01:20] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: That's probably a better question, yes.
[01:21] <sistpoty> TheMuso: statistics of ubuntu uploaded packages that are not maintained (vs. packages being maintained properly)
[01:21] <TheMuso> ah
[01:21] <Fujitsu> I've just got the one new one, and that's now in Debian and properly maintained, but I'm quite sure that's the exception rather than the rule.
[01:22] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: my assumption is that there is quite some crap (maybe even from apt-get.org imports), though I'd really see some hard figures to prove that
[01:22] <ajmitch> but they mostly go into debian
[01:23] <TheMuso> Actually, make that 4 through. The last one I also maintain.
[01:23] <TheMuso> And is not yet in Debian, and likely never will be anyway, due to what it is for.
[01:24] <Fujitsu> .... did we previously import from apt-get.org?
[01:24] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: sadly yes
[01:24] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: a mandate from on high
[01:24] <Fujitsu> Ewwww, that's why theere's so much crap.
[01:24] <sistpoty> not to sure if that's the only source... I guess some people loose interest likewise
[01:24] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Agreed.
[01:24] <Fujitsu> 615 source packages not in Debian is seriously uncool.
[01:24] <ajmitch> when the idea of universe having *everything* was encouraged
[01:25] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: where do you see that? lucas' mdt pages on people.debian.org?
[01:25] <Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html
[01:26] <Fujitsu> That doesn't include main, AFAICR, so no language packs.
[01:26] <ajmitch> http://people.debian.org/~lucas/ubuntu-versions/unimultiverse-all.html
[01:26] <ajmitch> 750 on there
[01:26] <Fujitsu> Mine might only be universe, I'll check.
[01:26] <ajmitch> stuff there that has probably been removed from debian
[01:27] <Fujitsu> Mine has some really nasty removals support, so that could be it.
[01:27] <ajmitch> and it's missing stuff that's in debian experimental (like ironpython)
[01:29] <ajmitch> so it's not as bad as 615, but still too many
[01:30] <sistpoty> compared to our active motus, yes
[01:32] <Fujitsu> I think we either need to keep syncing existing things from apt-get.org, or kill them off... having them lieing dormant is pretty stupid.
[01:32] <ajmitch> heh
[01:32] <TheMuso> I like option 2 best.
[01:32] <LaserJock> I just dump crap into Universe and leave ;-p
[01:32] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yeep.
[01:33] <TheMuso> IMO we only trust stuff from Debian, or that goes through us.
[01:33] <LaserJock> well
[01:33] <sistpoty> sheesh, revu won't accept my upload... if I ever find out who coded that ... *g*
[01:33] <LaserJock> this comes back to the big big question
[01:34] <LaserJock> What *is* Universe?
[01:34] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Something that needs to have a `dangerouscrap' component split out of it.
[01:34] <LaserJock> Mark and I think dholbach see it as more-or-less a large FLOSS playground
[01:34] <LaserJock> hence the apt-get.org stuff
[01:35] <LaserJock> and not really caring what goes in as long as it's packaging is ok
[01:35] <sistpoty> well, a playground doesn't necessarily mean to exclude non-maintained crap from it, which noone uses
[01:35] <Fujitsu> But apt-get.org's packaging isn't necessarily OK.
[01:35] <TheMuso> I don't like the term playground.
[01:35] <LaserJock> well, the point with the non-maintained stuff is that it *could* be maintained
[01:35] <LaserJock> that we throw in as much FLOSS as we can in the hopes that somebody'll pick it up
[01:36] <ajmitch> wondering why we get so many bugs
[01:36] <LaserJock> it doesn't matter if *we* maintain it or if it really gets maintained at all
[01:36] <LaserJock> that's sort of one view
[01:36] <Fujitsu> I'd like to have stuff in universe be able to be a bit maintained.
[01:37] <LaserJock> this is why I was thinking of nixternal's crappy repo
[01:37] <LaserJock> ;-)
[01:37] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I often wonder whether dholbach's view of universe is a little optimistic.
[01:37] <LaserJock> I was using the term PPA in my mind today
[01:37] <sistpoty> well, sorting out what is non-maintained might be a first step. that way we could at least make it clear that *you'll be on your own when installing this software*
[01:37] <minghua> I'd like to see a three-tier archive too, maybe not the "dangerouscrap" component name though.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: Right. The `crap' component.
[01:37] <LaserJock> one of the things I was thinking
[01:37] <LaserJock> was maybe PPA offers us this oppritunity
[01:38] <LaserJock> so we can say "heah, go get it from a PPA, we don't want it in our repo"
[01:38] <ajmitch> sistpoty: sure, we could probably fit a few hundred packages into universe then :)
[01:38] <sistpoty> ajmitch: :P
[01:38] <TheMuso> heh
[01:38] <sistpoty> well, most of the packages are maintained by debian and are in a pretty good shape though :P
[01:38] <LaserJock> we have roughly 4000 ubuntuX packages
[01:39] <sistpoty> (or rather because of that)
[01:39] <Fujitsu> Do we track origin for synced packages?
[01:39] <LaserJock> no
[01:39] <Fujitsu> Darn.
[01:39] <Fujitsu> That would make sense.
[01:39] <LaserJock> there's really know metadata or whatever you'd call it
[01:39] <LaserJock> to know where a package comes from
[01:39] <LaserJock> s/know/no/
[01:39] <Fujitsu> I guess we could look at old -changes.
[01:39] <LaserJock> that's what upset me with the Maintainer spec
[01:39] <sistpoty> hm.. is there any place apart from debian to sync from?
[01:40] <LaserJock> sure
[01:40] <sistpoty> LaserJock: as in?
[01:40] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: Yeah, marillat and apt-get.org have been done in the past.
[01:40] <LaserJock> apt-get.org, upstreams
[01:40] <sistpoty> wooo... scary
[01:40] <LaserJock> it's not a sync like what we do for Debian
[01:40] <TheMuso> yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
[01:40] <LaserJock> but that's where we're getting the packages
[01:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes it is, I believe.
[01:40] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: don't we have to upload them?
[01:41] <sistpoty> the "syncs"
[01:41] <ajmitch> nope
[01:41] <ajmitch> they'll be able to sync from PPAs as well
[01:41] <TheMuso> nooooooooooo please tell me thats not true
[01:42] <ajmitch> TheMuso: yes it's true, and it's intended by design
[01:42] <LaserJock> IMO that's a good thing
[01:42] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes
[01:42] <TheMuso> hrmf
[01:42] <LaserJock> I'd rather be able to look at something LP than sync from "wherever"
[01:42] <LaserJock> part of the design of PPA would be for us to more easily assess packages, I think
[01:43] <sistpoty> this means especially to be able to review changes between pockets and move from one pocket to another, preferred by a web-interface (e.g. -proposed to -updates=
[01:43] <TheMuso> Yeah, and we'd catch all the bad sync requests for such stuff.
[01:43] <TheMuso> from non-MOTUs.
[01:43] <LaserJock> well, processes wouldn't change, that I know of
[01:45] <sistpoty> right, but the "handle -proposed by motu-sru" would be affected, though there is only a legacy motu-sru left ;)
[01:45] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:45] <LaserJock> I'd eventually like it so if needed we can have MOTU admin Universe
[01:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That'd be nice... but I can't see us being allowed to NEW stuff.
[01:46] <LaserJock> well, I want the technical barriers out of the way
[01:47] <LaserJock> whether we're allowed (and eventually I don't see why not) is up to the TB
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Yeah, not requiring pretty much root access on drescher would be neat.
[01:47] <sistpoty> well, how about being able to comment on the new queue by e.g. motu's
[01:47] <sistpoty> ? ?
[01:48] <LaserJock> hmmmmm
[01:48] <sistpoty> that way, e.g. TB could sort out easily who is doing good comments and then make her or him an admin for universe
[01:48] <Fujitsu> That just duplicates rREV
[01:49] <Fujitsu> Oops. REVU.
[01:49] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: no, revu hasn't got the feature (yet) that non-motus can comment on packages *g*
[01:54] <imbrandon> afaik it has, someone just needs to enable that on a per account basis
[01:56] <sistpoty> yes, but then the commenter can also advocate...
[01:58] <sistpoty> now if revu would only process my upload, I'd be almost happy *g*
[01:58] <sistpoty> grrrr
[01:58] <ajmitch> sistpoty: want  me to help? :)
[01:59] <sistpoty> ajmitch: sure... you got root@sparky?
[01:59] <ajmitch> yep
[02:00] <sistpoty> ajmitch: great...
[02:00] <LaserJock> you're setting it up on sparky?
[02:00] <ajmitch> where have you hidden things?
[02:00] <sistpoty> ajmitch: -> query, ok?
[02:00] <ajmitch> sure
[02:01] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, as an interim solution
[02:01] <sistpoty> LaserJock: we're getting a faster box for it though, but we still need to assemble it
[02:01] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Bwahah.
[02:02] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: I don't want to do it, yet they want these particular features that the hacks enable..
[02:02] <Fujitsu> How about they do them properly?
[02:02] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: I've tried pushing that, but nothing has come of it.
[02:03] <LaserJock> well, there's not much they can do, that I'm aware of
[02:03] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: You would have seen the pam rtprio thread on -devel?
[02:03] <LaserJock> the setting conflict with the stock Ubuntu ones
[02:03] <TheMuso> Thats one of them.
[02:04] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: When? I don't recall it.
[02:04] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: A while back now.
[02:04] <LaserJock> oh, heah, it looks like we have delayed postinst stuff now
[02:04] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Oh, dpkg triggers?
[02:05] <LaserJock> Setting up volumeid (113-0ubuntu7) ...
[02:05] <LaserJock> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Finally :D
[02:05] <LaserJock> Processing triggers for initramfs-tools ...
[02:05] <LaserJock> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-9-generic
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: Go to sleep.
[02:05] <LaserJock> man, triggers could be so nice for TeX
[02:05] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: need to put a temp. backupserver online first.
[02:05] <LaserJock> if they work right that is
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Mhm. I wonder when they'll appear in Debian.
[02:06] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: was in IPhouse trying to resurrect our old one all day.
[02:06] <TheMuso> LaserJock: That is sweet sweet new.s
[02:06] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: Ah, so that's why my Jabber server is complaining at me?
[02:06] <ScottK> Fujitsu: IIRC the release for triggers was only done when it was to make Ubuntu feature freeze.
[02:06] <micahcowan> LaserJock, why great for TeX?
[02:06] <ScottK> I expect it'll be in Debian once we've debugged it.
[02:06] <micahcowan> (dunno anything about triggers)
[02:06] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: dunno, mine is online. forgot to config my firewall on the server.
[02:06] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: s/on/off/
[02:07] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: it has layer 2 and can ping the layer3 linknet thou :-)
[02:08] <minghua> LaserJock: According to Debian TeX maintainers, dpkg trigger won't help TeX packages.
[02:08] <LaserJock> oh yeah, I saw that email
[02:08] <LaserJock> I didn't quite get it
[02:09] <LaserJock> micahcowan: because TeX package run the same stuff over and over and over again and it takes forever
[02:09] <LaserJock> that and the stupid emacs packages
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[02:09] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Yay, emacs.
[02:09] <LaserJock> mine, I just about burned up my laptop on TheCore's snapshot packages
[02:09] <LaserJock> s/mine/man/
[02:10] <LaserJock> it's great for the data processing I do
[02:11] <LaserJock> I haven't figured out how to move around columns in vim
[02:11] <micahcowan> I have yet to find a better program than emacs with psgml-mode for XML editing.
[02:11] <micahcowan> LaserJock, how do you do that in Emacs?
[02:11] <LaserJock> rectangular regions, the lifeblood of my group ;-)
[02:12] <LaserJock> Ctrl-x r k to kill a region
[02:12] <LaserJock> Ctrl-x r y to yank it back
[02:13] <LaserJock> so it takes me ~10 seconds to process a largish data file, doing a s/,/ / and chopping of the right column
[02:13] <LaserJock> *off
[02:13] <minghua> LaserJock: in vi, Ctrl-v (going into visual mode), x, then p.
[02:13] <minghua> s/vi/vim/, to be exact.
[02:14] <minghua> Err... ctrl-v, move cursors to select the region you want to move, x, then p.
[02:15] <LaserJock> how do you go to the end of a file in visual mode?
[02:15] <micahcowan> LaserJock, same as in normal mode. Visual mode is mostly normal mode with an active selection.
[02:16] <minghua> LaserJock: G
[02:16] <LaserJock> oh, that is nice
[02:16] <LaserJock> minghua: thanks
[02:16] <mok0> I am working on a postinst script that downloads files using curl. How should the dependency be defined?
[02:16] <micahcowan> There are three versions of visual mode, LaserJock; a rectangle-oriented one (minghua's Ctrl-v), a character-oriented one (v), and a line-oriented one (V).
[02:17] <mok0> ... and how to check if the machine has network access at all?
[02:17] <LaserJock> ah, so many modes so little time ;-)
[02:17] <micahcowan> :)
[02:18] <micahcowan> mok0, you might consider using wget or similar instead, since it's Priority: standard vs Priority: optional.
[02:18] <micahcowan> (disclaimer: I'm the maintainer of wget).
[02:18] <micahcowan> I actually think curl is superior for single-file fetching in several respects, but I think wget is a little more widely-used.
[02:19] <mok0> micahcowan:  wget would work
[02:19] <micahcowan> Might want to see how some packages, like the restricted flash stuff, downloads their stuff, and emulate that.
[02:20] <mok0> micahcowan:  thanks, good idea, I will take a look at that
[02:21] <LaserJock> well, now minghua has totally made emacs obsolete for me ;-)
[02:21] <LaserJock> my boss will not be pleased
[02:21] <Fujitsu> Yay, the less emacs in the world the better.
[02:21] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why?
[02:21] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Those damn hacks.
[02:21] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: They want them in, badly.
[02:22] <LaserJock> how many files do you need to divert?
[02:22] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[02:22] <minghua> \o/
[02:22] <TheMuso> Two, but they are owned by another package
[02:22] <LaserJock> two doesn't see that awfully bad
[02:22] <TheMuso> And append a line to a pam config file.
[02:23] <TheMuso> Its bad enough for me.
[02:23] <minghua> I'd rather let no package touch my PAM config file.
[02:23] <TheMuso> Especially since I wrote a a spec for sevilla to do it properly, yet the ubuntustudio guys that were there didn't push it
[02:24] <LaserJock> why can't you do it properly?
[02:24] <minghua> TheMuso: Then why are you in a difficult position?  Are you responsible for approving or rejecting it?
[02:24] <LaserJock> and btw, I have 47 diverted files on my system, I doubt 2 more would kill me ;-)
[02:24] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Because it erquires coordination with seb128/desktop team to do so, and there is a hairy situation with the file containing translations.
[02:24] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Are they owned by another package?
[02:25] <LaserJock> some of them surely
[02:25] <TheMuso> hmmm
[02:26] <LaserJock> that's kinda the point of dpkg-divert
[02:27] <LaserJock> like kdesudo diverts /usr/bin/kdesu from kdebase-bin
[02:27] <LaserJock> I mean, it's not ideal for sure
[02:27] <TheMuso> right
[02:28] <LaserJock> but perhaps it's good enough until the proper solution is ready?
[02:28] <TheMuso> yeah
[02:28] <LaserJock> it's just Universe ;-)
[02:28] <TheMuso> true
[02:29] <LaserJock> me adds the gutsy-crappy repo
[02:29] <LaserJock> I guess it should be a component rather
[02:30] <LaserJock> so http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy good bad ugly ;-)
[02:30] <minghua> I like the "good bad ugly" name.
[02:31] <minghua> Although in gstreamer's interpretation, main == good, universe == bad, restricted == ugly.
[02:33] <LaserJock> yeah so we just need
[02:33] <LaserJock> good bad ugly crappy
[02:33] <LaserJock> and then when we get experimental
[02:33] <LaserJock> we can call it crackful
[02:34] <LaserJock> "heah man, if you really want bleeding edgy, grab the crappy crackful repo" ;-)
[02:35] <LaserJock> dang it
[02:35] <LaserJock> I can't even type edge properly anymore :(
[02:50] <TheMuso> Gotta love bzr  for being able to bring files back from the dead.
[02:51] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: That feature is rather useful and a lifesaver at times, yes.
[02:51] <TheMuso> Yup.
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
[02:55] <minghua> By "bring files back from the dead", you guys mean get deleted file back in work directory?
[02:55] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:55] <bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
[02:57] <sistpoty> hm... where would I find /usr/bin/mail in?
[02:57] <bddebian> No responses to my motu mail :-(
[02:57] <Fujitsu> !find /usr/bin/mail
[02:57] <sistpoty> bddebian: ?
[02:57] <ubotu> File /usr/bin/mail found in mailutils, mailx
[02:57] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: ^^
[02:57] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: no, don't have it installed on my box, likewise on sparky :(
[02:57] <bddebian> sistpoty: I sent an e-mail to ubuntu-motu ML
[02:58] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: I asked ubotu where it was, and it replied.
[02:58] <sistpoty> bddebian:either I haven't got it yet or I ignored it :P
[02:58] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: ah... good ubotu :)
[02:58] <bddebian> heh
[02:59] <imbrandon> Unpacking libmtp6 (from .../libmtp6_0.2.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ...
[02:59] <imbrandon> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libmtp6_0.2.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/etc/udev/rules.d/libmtp.rules', which is also in package libmtp5
[02:59] <imbrandon> grr
[02:59] <bddebian> Is the wiki down?
[03:00] <Nafallo> imbrandon: yea, annoying.
[03:00] <bddebian> nm
[03:09] <soothsayer> ScottK: I think recountdiff from patchutils does what I want (Too tired to verify right now). See also rediff
[03:09] <soothsayer> s/what I want/what I was looking for earlier
[03:20] <Hobbsee> pygi: ping
[03:21] <xhaker_> imbrandon, bug #133165
[03:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133165 in libmtp "Should conflict with libmtp5" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133165
[03:21] <xhaker_> check my two last comments
[03:21] <xhaker_> i think that fixes it
[03:21] <Hobbsee> oh meh, why have a libmtp-common?
[03:21] <xhaker_> i need someone to review it
[03:22] <Hobbsee> i dont think libmtp-common is the way to go there - they're not supposed to be coinstallable.
[03:22] <xhaker_> Hobbsee, doko suggested it. It contains the udev rules and hotplug stuff
[03:22] <Hobbsee> xhaker_: would be good if you can put the (LP: #foobar) in the changelog
[03:24] <xhaker_> well, from what i understand doko suggested it for the future.. not this particular bug.. so when libmtp7 gets here it'd be easier
[03:24] <Hobbsee> seeing as the packages have all been rebuilt anyway...and the new versions all depedn on the new library, i really cant see the point
[03:25] <xhaker_> it happens to solve this bug because i've made libmtp-common conflict with the older version of the package libmtp6 and the others before
[03:25] <xhaker_> i don't know.. i'm trying to do my best
[03:26] <xhaker_> Hobbsee, how would you go to fix this one?'
[03:26] <Hobbsee> xhaker_: i'd use the first debdiff
[03:27] <xhaker_> and keep adding the older lib to conflicts whenever the soname changes?
[03:27] <Hobbsee> xhaker_: you can drop libmtp2 off there as well - it wasnt in dapper, and we dont support edgy--> gutsy upgrades
[03:29] <xhaker_> Hobbsee, please make your opinion noticed on the bug report
[03:29] <xhaker_> if you want, that is
[03:32] <Hobbsee> doko_: ping
[03:38] <Hobbsee> xhaker_: uploaded.
[03:39] <xhaker_> Hobbsee, I hope it works :) thanks for your time
[03:39] <Hobbsee> no problem
[03:39] <Hobbsee> it should work
[03:39] <Hobbsee> xhaker_: i dropped the libmtp2 conflicts as well
[03:41] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:50] <mok0> I used to be able to find the build queue on LP. Does anyone remember how to get there?
[03:50] <Hobbsee> mok0: buildds, or the new queue?
[03:50] <sistpoty> can anyone help me setup apache? http://pastebin.com/m25f4852b. I get an 404 for http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/min12xxw-0708180532/min12xxw_0.0.9-1build2.dsc
[03:50] <mok0> New queue
[03:51] <Hobbsee> pygi: what's the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnash/+bug/131864 ?  youv'e said it's fixed, yet not marked it fix released.
[03:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131864 in gnash "gnash crash! ...gnash 0.8.1~trunk.070802-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[03:55] <leonel> is there an estimated time for  ubuntu 6.06.2 ?
[03:57] <leonel> found it : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2
[04:04] <sistpoty> ok, revu is back up (at least, some kind of), so you might be able to upload to revu again
[04:05] <TheMuso> sistpoty: Cool.
[04:05] <sistpoty> please note, that currently the db doesn't know anything about reviewers, so no motu can comment to an upload. I'll try to fix this once I'm sober again ;)
[04:05] <TheMuso> heh ok.
[04:06] <nixternal> haha
[04:06] <sistpoty> oh, and anything that goes wrong: ajmitch has root on sparky, so he can fix it :P
[04:06] <nixternal> booyah!
[04:09] <mok0> sistpoty: I can't reach revu, is it the same url?
[04:09] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
[04:10] <ScottK> Hobbsee: But we do support Dapper to Gutsy+1 updates.
[04:11] <ScottK> mok0: It's probably your DNS lagging.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> ScottK: it wasnt in dapper
[04:12] <Hobbsee> ScottK: dapper amarok had no libmtp at all
[04:12] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.
[04:12] <bddebian> ajmitch: Did you happen to see my e-mail to ubuntu-motu?
[04:13] <bddebian> yeah sistpoty :)
[04:13] <bddebian> sistpoty: Actually why not just leave it down until Gutsy+1 opens up? :-)
[04:13] <sistpoty> mok0: maybe the dns isn't updated yet (try sparky.informatik.uni-erlangen.de in the meantime)
[04:14] <sistpoty> bddebian: :P
[04:14] <mok0> sistpoty: yes sparky works
[04:17] <sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed now, finally... good n8 everyone
[04:18] <bddebian> Should we just blindly do things like: Bug #124295
[04:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124295 in audacious-plugins "The compiliation should have --enable-chardet" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124295
[04:18] <bddebian> gnight sistpoty
[05:06] <StevenK> man-di: What's happening with sear? Now it needs a UVFe to hit Ubuntu.
[05:11] <bddebian> Why did we get rid of the Needs Info status on LP?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> bddebian: it's renamed to incomplete
[05:14] <Fujitsu> bddebian: Renamed to Incomplete.
[05:15] <minghua> Fujitsu: Adding the BSD readline (called libeditline) support in gnuplot is not as easy as I thought. :-(
[05:15] <Hobbsee> superm1: ping
[05:18] <Fujitsu> minghua: How hard is it?
[05:19] <Hobbsee> keescook: ping
[05:19] <minghua> Fujitsu: need some autoconf-fu (configure.in needs to be changed), then we can test if the needed functions are implemented in libeditline.
[05:20] <bddebian> Thx Hobbsee, Fujitsu
[05:20] <bddebian> gnuplot is fairly hideous iirc :-)
[05:20] <bddebian> Anyone know audacious very well?
[05:21] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i think everyone still calls it needs info though :P
[05:28] <superm1> Hobbsee, i'm here for a few minutes
[05:28] <superm1> did you need something?
[05:29] <Hobbsee> superm1: just letting you know, we're in uvf
[05:29] <superm1> Hobbsee, i know
[05:29] <Hobbsee> superm1: was your upload request filed before uvf date?
[05:29] <superm1> yesterday Hobbsee
[05:29] <Hobbsee> "yesterday" was friday.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> was it before or after the ubuntu dev meeting, which was when the freeze came in place?
[05:30] <Fujitsu> superm1: `Yesterday' spans 48 hours.
[05:30] <superm1> keescook had uploaded yesterday
[05:30] <superm1> and then somethign went wrong
[05:30] <superm1> and he redid the upload afaik
[05:30] <Hobbsee> superm1: you must be in the US.
[05:30] <superm1> yes
[05:30] <superm1> so is keescook
[05:31] <Hobbsee> superm1: seeing as you appear not to understand the concept that there are other people in the world, and the existance of timezones.
[05:31] <superm1> he is a on the far west coast, and i'm in the midwest
[05:31] <superm1> thought you knew i was in the US :)
[05:31] <Hobbsee> "yesterday" is a relevant term, dependant on the timezone you're in
[05:31] <Hobbsee> sure, but you should learn to give days and times in UTC, like the rest of the world.  you cant assume that everyone will bend to your timezone.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> like i cant assume that you'll bend to mine.
[05:32] <superm1> right
[05:32] <Hobbsee> so, things like "yesterday", "at 9pm local", arent terribly helpful - we shouldnt have to convert out fo your timezone, and then back into ours.
[05:32] <xhaker_> any java person here?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> and no, i dont remember where everyone is - but anyone who tends to think that the world revolves around them, w.r.t time, tends to be in the US :)
[05:33] <superm1> well i'm not sure what happened to the upload, i'm assuming keescook accidently pushed it to the wrong place, because there were no source changes when he reuploaded
[05:33] <superm1> but you'll have to check with him
[05:34] <ScottK> xhaker_: man-di is the person you want.
[05:34] <superm1> he said that he got "Accepted" messages back when it was done
[05:34] <Hobbsee> superm1: i plan to, yeah.
[05:34] <Hobbsee> superm1: obviously, if we let some people do it, then everybody else (with more risky and big changes) will go "but you let them do it, why not me too?"
[05:34] <superm1> and in -mythtv he said at 23:12 UTC, he said "<keescook> superm1: found my idiocy, got an exception, re-uploading myth{tv,plugins} now."
[05:34] <Hobbsee> which is why it's an issue
[05:35] <xhaker_> ScottK, thanks, already sent some his way :) it's just that i'd like to fix it now!! you know :D
[05:35] <ScottK> Sure.  I don't know a bit about Java, so can't help you there.
[05:35] <superm1> Hobbsee, if it comes down to it, i'll be glad to refile it as a UVFe considering the timing
[05:36] <Hobbsee> superm1: it's uploaded now.  the announcement has been CC'd now
[05:37] <Hobbsee> i wonder who he got an exception off...
[05:37] <Hobbsee> oh well
[05:38] <xhaker_> ScottK, ../localfile.c:12:17: error: jni.h: No such file or directory -> not quite javaish but i can't figure it out myself
[05:39] <ScottK> You want one of these packages for a build-dep or depends depending on where you got the error:
[05:39] <ScottK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=+jni.h&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=gutsy&arch=i386
[05:40] <StevenK> Hobbsee, ScottK: There ought to be a bug where one (or more of us) says "Yes, I Rubber Stamp this upload."
[05:40] <ScottK> Or something.
[05:40] <ScottK> Agreed.
[05:41] <xhaker_> Rubber Stamp is good?
[05:41] <ScottK> UVFe isn't that hard to fill out.
[05:41] <ScottK> People ought to just do it.
[05:41] <ScottK> But I'm in a grumpy mood....
[05:48] <ScottK> StevenK: What did you mean?  Just a standing UVFe rubber stamp bug that we can comment on?
[05:56] <ajmitch> StevenK: sounds good, can I have one for anything I upload? :)
[05:57] <StevenK> ScottK: If people want a UVFe, they need to file a bug, and then ask/poke us pointing us at it, and one (or more) of us comments saying "Fine, go ahead."
[05:58] <ScottK> Agreed.  Just thought you might be suggesting something else.
[05:58] <ScottK> The first one of us should comment on the bug and the 2nd ack should set it to confirmed.
[05:58] <ScottK> Then whoever is going to upload can execute.
[06:01] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: I would have thought that if you were involved with MOTU/Ubuntu development, you shoud be on devel-announce.
[06:01] <ScottK> TheMuso: One would thing.
[06:01] <ScottK> thing/think
[06:02] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: Sounds a lot like what I was just pondering in the e-mail I wrote to -motu ML.
[06:02] <tonyyarusso> (the rubber stamp thing - could be integrated everywhere)
[06:02] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: Great minds, etc etc
[06:02] <tonyyarusso> ya :)
[06:05] <ScottK> StevenK: How to deal with people who upload without a UVFe past the freeze is another question.
[06:06] <StevenK> ScottK: I'm not sure there is anything we can do aside from "please don't do that."
[06:06] <ScottK> This gets back to Hobbsee's recurring point that there is no process to fire a MOTU.
[06:10] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: well, this is true, but some developers arent even on ubuntu-devel
[06:10] <Hobbsee> er, soem MOTU's
[06:10] <TheMuso> Seems crazy to me.
[06:11] <Hobbsee> ScottK: this is true, but i'd hate to fire them due to an accidental crossing of red tape.  however, those who consistently break said red tape, and so therefore risk the archive, are a different story
[06:11] <Hobbsee> think of this one - it's a mythbuntu upload, so it wont affect anything else in the archive
[06:12] <StevenK> I'm not ...
[06:12] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Agreed.
[06:12] <ScottK> Agreed that I wouldn't fire anyone for this upload, but it's be a bad mark in that direction in my book.
[06:12] <ScottK> it's/it'd
[06:17] <Hobbsee> bah.  everyone probably missed that, with the split
[06:17] <Hobbsee> [14:11]  <Hobbsee> ScottK: this is true, but i'd hate to fire them due to an accidental crossing of red tape.  however, those who consistently break said red tape, and so therefore risk the archive, are a different story
[06:17] <Hobbsee> [14:11]  <Hobbsee> think of this one - it's a mythbuntu upload, so it wont affect anything else in the archive
[06:17] <Hobbsee> [14:12]  <Hobbsee> also, it's still early
[06:17] <Hobbsee> [14:12]  <Hobbsee> however, if someone decides to upload something important...hmmmm....say, oh, whatever, a lib that a lot of things depend on, then, late in the cycle, then i will have their head.
[06:17] <Hobbsee> [14:13]  <Hobbsee> because they're attemping to (or actually) break the archive by doing so.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> [14:13]  <Hobbsee> i think it's those we really need to worry about, rather than the odd red-tape breaker of something low risk
[06:18] <Hobbsee> [14:14]  <Hobbsee> as in, tell them off, sure, and make sure they know the purpose of the freeze, and that it is in place, (so that they dont do it again), but no need to throw them out of MOTU
[06:18] <Hobbsee> [14:14]  <Hobbsee> of course, if htey keep doing it, then it comes under the category of "attempting to break the archive by ignoring, and not following the rules), then we look at getting them out of MOTU
[06:18] <StevenK> [14:16]  < StevenK> The occasional, accidental, "Oh I'm so sorry! I forgot" is okay. The consistent forgetters are a different story.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> yes, the "forgetters"
[06:18] <xtknight> some news i missed? :O
[06:18] <TheMuso> But how can you not forget. :)
[06:19] <ScottK> xtknight: Just that we are past Upstream Version Freeze for Gutsy and someone uploaded a new upstream version.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: if you dont watch irc and the discussions there, easily.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i've only recently forwarded the freeze mail to the motu ML
[06:24] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: That was what prompted me to say that anybody involved with development should be on devel-announce.
[06:25] <ajmitch> we always get the complaints of too much red tape, you don't trust MOTUs to make good judgements, etc
[06:25] <ajmitch> the suggestion comes up every release that we shouldn't need a motu-uvf team
[06:26] <TheMuso> I have seen the UVF team work in previous cycles.
[06:26] <TheMuso> SO I think its a good thing.
[10:49] <davromaniak> revu page is online, so we can hope have it working well this week ??
[10:51] <Fujitsu> davromaniak: You should be able to upload to it.
[10:52] <davromaniak> I cannot login in the main page
[10:52] <Fujitsu> davromaniak: You'll probably need to upload something before it creates an account.
[10:52] <davromaniak> ok
[10:53] <Fujitsu> This is on a clean database.
[10:55] <davromaniak> ok
[10:55] <Zombie> What is the URL for new Submissions?
[10:56] <davromaniak> the same as usual
[10:56] <davromaniak> revu.tauware.de
[11:05] <davromaniak> how do I have to create an account on revu
[11:07] <davromaniak> because I can upload, but I can't login
[11:13] <siretart> davromaniak: has your upload been accepted?
[11:13] <davromaniak> yes
[11:24] <Fujitsu> davromaniak: Have you tried to recover your password?
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Hm, it's not generating new passwords properly, apparently.
[11:34] <davromaniak> ok
[11:43] <Lamego> what would be the best word to describe "Desktop Apps, Server Apps, Console Apps" ? class or type ?
[11:47] <Frogzoo> platform's not right
[11:47] <Lamego> "Browsing software for Desktop, the following classes are also available."
[11:48] <Frogzoo> Lamego: = use
[11:48] <Lamego> use ?
[11:48] <Frogzoo> use = desktop/server/console
[11:49] <Lamego> it will not look good "Please select the following use types" :P
[11:54] <Frogzoo> everyone's a critic :p
[11:55] <Lamego> ;)
[11:55] <Lamego> I think i will use "type"
[12:37] <SimIJskes> i have patched libpoppler so that it delegates some font name translation to fontconfig, is there anybody else working on this subject?
[01:00] <SimIJskes> i have patched libpoppler so that it delegates some font name translation to fontconfig, is there anybody willing to adopt the patch?
[01:23] <geser> SimIJskes: try asking pitti (he's currently on vacation) or tkamppeter in #ubuntu-devel during the week
[01:28] <SimIJskes> geser: thnks
[02:03] <Hobbsee> Kmos: no, UVF does *not* start on the 30th, that's new package freeze.
[02:03] <TheMuso> Evening folks.
[02:03] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
[02:05] <Kmos> Hobbsee: ah ok =)
[02:06] <Kmos> and when it ends again ?
[02:06] <Hobbsee> Kmos: gutsy+1
[02:06] <Hobbsee> Kmos: ie, it goes on forever, for gutsy.
[02:06] <Kmos> :)
[02:06] <Hobbsee> Kmos: think about the point of it, and you'll understand why
[02:07] <Kmos> Hobbsee: yep
[02:07] <Kmos> geser asked me if ddclient it's an UVF
[02:07] <Hobbsee> i saw
[02:07] <Kmos> but it was registered on LP at 15
[02:07] <Kmos> and have some bugs that need to be fixed on gutsy because it's not working correctly
[02:07] <Kmos> about the ip update
[02:08] <Kmos> members.dyndns.com is not correct, it's members.dyndns.org
[02:08] <Kmos> dyndns.com is only used to talk about the website
[02:08] <Kmos> ddclient team have talked to dyndns.com about that
[02:09] <Hobbsee> launchpad users is still *not* for requesting cds.  it says that in big bold letters above the page
[02:09] <Hobbsee> when registering
[02:09] <Hobbsee> perhaps they're just giving their addresses so that they can have someone cart them off and teach them how to read.
[02:10] <Kmos> Hobbsee: yeah, i've answered to that mail
[02:15] <phoenix_> always wondered what moto mend
[02:15] <phoenix_> erm motu
[02:15] <phoenix_> anybody here ?
[02:16] <phoenix_> hey Hobbsee
[02:16] <phoenix_> i got a Q
[02:16] <phoenix_> thats kinda needing devs to it
[02:16] <Hobbsee> shoot
[02:16] <TheMuso> !ask | phoenix_
[02:16] <ubotu> phoenix_: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[02:16] <phoenix_> u answered ;)
[02:17] <phoenix_> bye
[02:17] <Zombie> Does anyone know how to add support for different resolutions in Ubuntu?
[02:18] <Hobbsee> Zombie: sounds like a #ubuntu type of question
[02:18] <phoenix_> lol
[02:18] <phoenix_> Hobbsee,  what motu kinda Q ?
[02:19] <Hobbsee> Zombie: also, my psychic pony is on holidays, so i cant know what type of video card you have.  the answer depends on that.
[02:19] <Zombie> Its an Intel 940
[02:19] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: lol
[02:19] <Hobbsee> Zombie: gutsy?
[02:19] <Zombie> Fiesty.
[02:19] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: RAOF gets the credit
[02:19] <Zombie> Gutsy isn't stable.
[02:19] <TheMuso> hehe
[02:20] <Hobbsee> Zombie: then this really isnt the place (most of us arent running feisty), but install 915resolution
[02:20] <Zombie> When will Gutsy be blessed as Stable?
[02:20] <Hobbsee> when it's released.
[02:20] <phoenix_> after enough zombies ran it ;)
[02:21] <phoenix_> i give up
[02:21] <phoenix_> i cant install ubuntu
[02:21] <phoenix_> and nobody knows something to help
[02:21] <phoenix_> damn via chipset
[02:22] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: was running with a via chipset, iirc
[02:22] <DarkMageZ> phoenix_, the digg.com user/zombies have been running it since alpha1. that doesn't make it stable.
[02:22] <elkbuntu> eh?
[02:22] <phoenix_> hey elkbuntu
[02:22] <phoenix_> u run via chipset gutsy ?
[02:23] <elkbuntu> yeah?
[02:23] <phoenix_> i cant seem to manage the install
[02:23] <phoenix_> care to help ?
[02:23] <phoenix_> it doesnt detect my hdd at all
[02:23] <phoenix_> via vt8251
[02:24] <phoenix_> and i only found a dapper driver
[02:25] <elkbuntu> what part of the system is the vt8251?
[02:25] <phoenix_> the ide chipset
[02:25] <phoenix_> erm sata
[02:25] <elkbuntu> i dont have sata, so i am not a valid test case, sorry
[02:26] <phoenix_> can u point, me wher to look for the feisty driver ?
[02:26] <elkbuntu> phoenix_, if you're after support, join #ubuntu+1 where other gutsy users might be able to help you.
[02:27] <phoenix_> thkx
[02:27] <phoenix_> http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=420&OSID=45&CatID=3270&SubCatID=167
[02:27] <phoenix_> thats only driver i found
[02:27] <phoenix_> but it isnt similar to yours then :$
[02:27] <phoenix_> k bye and thkx
[02:46] <Hobbsee> greetings jono
[02:48] <jono> hey Hobbsee
[02:48] <Hobbsee> jono: what are you doing here?  it's a weekend
[02:48] <jono> Hobbsee: just logged on to see whats going on
[02:49] <jono> going to have an afternoon kip in a sec
[02:49] <Hobbsee> jono: heh.  that would be working, right?
[02:49] <Hobbsee> normal people arent supposed to do that on weekends.
[02:49] <jono> Hobbsee: heh, this is not a normal job
[02:49] <jono> :P
[02:49] <jono> I seem to always work at weekends :P
[02:50] <jono> might go and do some recording soon actually :)
[02:50] <Hobbsee> awww.
[02:50] <jono> its all good :)
[02:50] <Hobbsee> i get so bored on weekends, if i dont have $workthatigetpaidfor to go to
[02:50] <jono> cool
[02:50] <jono> we actively encourage Hobbsee to not get $workthatshegetspaidfor so she spends more time on Ubuntu :)
[02:51] <Hobbsee> jono: hah.
[02:51] <Hobbsee> jono: well, i'd like the money
[02:51] <jono> I am gonna piss around with packaging soon too
[02:51] <jono> keen to experiment with MOTU
[02:52] <Hobbsee> cool
[02:52] <elkbuntu> try not to piss on anything edible :
[02:52] <TheMuso> lol
[02:54] <DarkSun88> Hill
[03:17] <davromaniak> I can arrive to have my new password on revu, :(
[03:21] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Bug #123411 seems reasonable to me.  Thoughts?
[03:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 123411 in pommed "[UVFe]  Please sync pommed (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123411
[03:24] <Hobbsee> ScottK: looks fine
[03:25] <ScottK> OK.  I've acked it.  You want to be #2 then and ack it to the archive?
[03:26] <Hobbsee> ok
[03:38] <bluefoxicy> I love upgrades.
[03:38] <bluefoxicy> just bam.
[03:39] <bluefoxicy> I can't get back to X
[03:39] <bluefoxicy> CAF1
[03:39] <bluefoxicy> login.
[03:39] <bluefoxicy> killall gnome-screensaver
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> rofl
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> everything's crashing
[03:46] <mr_pouit> ScottK: Hobbsee: thanks :)
[03:46] <Hobbsee> mr_pouit: no problem
[03:48] <ScottK> No problem.
[04:26] <bluefoxicy> was vmware server dropped from gutsy
[05:13] <mok0> Is it safe to do a dist-upgrade feisty -> gutsy??
[05:14] <geser> try and you will know :)
[05:14] <geser> you could also try asking in #ubuntu+1 if somebody upgrade to gutsy recently
[05:14] <mok0> geser: true :-)
[05:15] <ScottK> mok0: I've done it and had no problems and while we are past Upstream Version Freeze, a lot of stuff is still changing rapidly.
[05:15] <ScottK> mok0: I wouldn't do it on a system you actually need to have at any given moment.
[05:15] <mok0> I did s/feisty/gutsy in sources.list, but do I need to keep feisty repos?
[05:15] <ScottK> What I do is have a spare hard drive for my laptop.  One with Feisty and one with Gutsy.
[05:15] <ScottK> No
[05:16] <mok0> This is my box at home... I use it to play with...
[05:17] <ScottK> Then have fun and go for it.  It'll be a good learning experience.
[05:18] <mok0> Yeah, what the heck, I'll try
[05:19] <Frogzoo> hey, if they ever get apt to run over bit torrent, can we get mp3 debs?
[05:19] <ScottK> Back up your data first...
[05:19] <geser> mok0: I don't know of any actual problems, but I upgraded weeks ago
[05:19] <mok0> Too late :-)
[05:20] <geser> mok0: please file any upgrade problem as a bug
[05:21] <mok0> It's downloading 1245 packages
[05:21] <mok0> 1.3 Gbyes
[05:39] <mok0> Hi minghua, did you get a chance to look at btk-core?
[05:40] <minghua> mok0: Hi.  I got your mail, but sorry, I haven't had time to look at the package yet.
[05:41] <minghua> mok0: I suggest you send mail to ubuntu-motu list to try getting more attentions.
[05:41] <mok0> I made some changes, f.ex. I left out the example programs
[05:41] <minghua> mok0: Eventually I'll look at it, but I've been busy these days.
[05:41] <mok0> minghua: OK, I can do that, I just thought you should have a first chance :-)
[05:42] <minghua> mok0: Thanks for that, I am afraid I'll have to pass this first chance. :-)
[05:42] <mok0> NP
[06:23] <keescook> what kind of crack is apache2-mpm-itk !?
[06:25] <geser> does it need a rebuild again?
[06:26] <keescook> geser: well, I didn't know it existed, and the feisty apache security update broke it because it builds a hard version depend against apache.
[06:26] <keescook> instead of using something saner.  Anyway, I'm rebuilding it for feisty now.
[06:27] <geser> keescook: it's the same in gutsy, I already rebuild it twice for the last two apache2 uploads
[06:33] <minghua> IIRC, the story is that apache2-mpm-itk must be synced with apache itself, but apache maintainers don't want to include -mpm-itk in their package, so -mpm-itk becomes a separate source package, and needs a binNMU whenever apache is updated.
[06:33] <ScottK> Appears it's crack by design then.
[06:38] <mok0> Uh uh. Just got an error with dist-upgrade: E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[06:40] <mok0> Will try rebooting, see you later...
[06:46] <simu> hello, i just uploaded a package to revu and looking for reviews. it's called rotoscope, a nice gnome graphics app. I made a package for feisty is there a chance to uload it too the fiesty universe or is there only gusty packaging allowed?
[06:50] <geser> simu: wrong version and distribution: should be 0.2-0ubuntu1 and gutsy
[06:52] <geser> the new REVU needs some finetuning
[06:53] <zul> afternoon
[06:59] <ScottK> afternoon zul
[06:59] <ScottK> Any thoughts on a UVFe that says we just rewrote the entire application?
[06:59] <geser> zul: are you planning to update xen-meta soon? it has currently some unmet deps on amd64 (depends *-3.0 instead of *-3.1)
[06:59] <simu> geser: is it possible to add new packages to feisty's universe?
[06:59] <geser> simu: no
[07:00] <zul> geser: yep probably today sometime
[07:00] <geser> ok, then I won't touch it
[07:00] <zul> if you want to go ahead
[07:00] <joejaxx> anyone know what revu.t.d what running? distro wise?
[07:01] <zul> ScottK: if mvo is ok with im ok with it
[07:01] <zul> joejaxx: i heard freebsd ;)
[07:01] <simu> geser: why debian1? there is no rotoscope package in debian
[07:02] <simu> geser: sorry ubuntu1
[07:02] <ScottK> I guess I wonder why if, as stated in the bug "This is all we (upstream developers) have been working for the last five months for inclusion on Ubuntu Gutsy" it's after the freeze and not before.
[07:02] <ScottK> I guess I'll ask.
[07:02] <zul> ScottK: they should still follow procedure though, but in theory im ok with it
[07:03] <ScottK> Sure.
[07:03] <zul> diffstat changelog debdiff, blah blah
[07:03] <geser> simu: all package modified by Ubuntu get a -XubuntuY revision to not collide with Debian revisions. As there is no Debian package for it currently we use -0ubuntu1 as revision
[07:05] <simu> geser: I see, I correct the version and build a gusty package and upload it again, thax for the feedback
[07:05] <joejaxx> zul: oh ok
[07:05] <zul> joejaxx: i was kidding
[07:05] <joejaxx> oh
[07:09] <sistpoty> hi folks
[07:09] <joejaxx> hello sistpoty :D
[07:09] <geser> Hi sistpoty
[07:10] <sistpoty> hi joejaxx and geser
[07:10] <ScottK> Hi sistpoty
[07:10] <sistpoty> hi ScottK
[07:10] <joejaxx> :)
[07:11] <geser> who is responsible for REVU now?
[07:11] <sistpoty> geser: what do you mean by responsible?
[07:11] <sistpoty> geser: as in taking care for the box?
[07:12] <sistpoty> geser: that would be siretart and me then
[07:13] <zul>  geser: #133303 wouldnt it be easier just to grab the patch your self and just upload it yourself?
[07:13] <geser> can you allow access to the extracted directory for the uploads again? e.g. http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/rotoscope-0708182100/rotoscope-0.2/
[07:15] <joejaxx> so revu is back?
[07:15] <sistpoty> geser: it's on my list... currently I'm trying to fix the lost pw thingy
[07:15] <geser> ok, no hurry
[07:16] <sistpoty> joejaxx: yes, but it's only an interim solution running on sparky, so it may be a little bit slow
[07:16] <joejaxx> ah ok
[07:16] <joejaxx> sparky?
[07:16] <geser> I guess sparky.ubuntuwire.com, one of the community machines for ubuntu-dev
[07:17] <sistpoty> joejaxx: the sparc box of ubuntu-wire (standing in erlangen)
[07:17] <joejaxx> oh ok
[07:18] <geser> zul: it would be faster than waiting for the sync but is it worth it to upload it as 2.6-2.1build1?
[07:19] <ScottK> zul: I'd say it's better to sync it and stay in sync with Debian that do manual packaging work.
[07:19] <zul> sure whatever
[07:19] <zul> no skin off my nose :)
[07:33] <zul> is anyone doing wine?
[07:34] <geser> zul: can you look over the debdiff for xen-meta? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34194/
[07:35] <geser> zul: are the xen-image-* for -server and -amd64 still the current ones? and is it ok for -desktop to depend on the linux-xen meta-package?
[07:37] <zul> 2.6.19 is gone for gutsy so linux-xen should be fine
[07:39] <sistpoty> geser: directories can be browsed again on revu :)
[07:39] <zul> back later
[07:40] <geser> zul: should ubuntu-xen-server also depend on linux-xen?
[07:41] <geser> zul: there is no linux-xen on amd64. I can only find xen-image-2.6.19-4-generic-amd64
[08:12] <ScottK> Would you believe one of our dogs stepped on the power switch?  Ugh.
[08:13] <geser> secure it better
[08:14] <ScottK> As a rule I do.  I had an UPS failure recently and things are a bit on a shoestring until the new one comes.
[08:17] <nixternal> ScottK: hah, my dog unplugs the power to my computers
[08:17] <nixternal> and he chews up my cat5 whenever he gets a chance
[08:17] <ScottK> This was one aspect of two of them deciding to have a disagreement under my desk (and they aren't small dogs).
[08:19] <nixternal> my pit bull is perfect, he doesn't mess with stuff, he is calm and laid back
[08:19] <nixternal> the Yorki, my lord is a little terrorist
[08:20] <ScottK> When my wife and I got married 6 years ago, she had two dogs and I had one.  They are still sorting out dominance issues.
[08:21] <ScottK> Their latest thing is disagreeing over who gets to lay closest to me at my desk.
[08:22] <nixternal> lol
[08:22] <nixternal> my pitbull gets under the desk and sleeps with his head on my foot
[08:22] <nixternal> the yorki wants to get on the desk
[08:22] <nixternal> I am willing to bet that the dog whisperer would get owned by the yorki
[08:24] <ScottK> It doesn't help matters that the male is currently stuck wearing an Elizabethan collar and has trouble getting some places.
[08:25] <ScottK> He's grumpier than usual to start with and, I swear, the other two dogs tease him about it.
[08:27] <nixternal> lol
[09:05] <simu> hello, i just uploaded a package to revu and looking for reviews. it's called rotoscope, a nice gnome graphics app.
[09:06] <simu> I corrected the version now
[09:07] <jussi01> simu: revu is down afaik
[09:08] <jussi01> read the topic ;)
[09:09] <simu> update the topic
[09:13] <sistpoty> well, the account database of revu is still (almost) empty, I'll take for this later
[09:13] <sistpoty> +care
[09:19] <simu> the time on REVU is wrong
[09:20] <ScottK> I'd file that under "mostly" and not worry about it too much for now.
[09:28] <simu> bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
[09:28] <simu> what ist the dist target for gutsy? do I have to use "unstable"
[09:29] <ScottK> Gutsy is correct.  You can ignore that.
[09:29] <simu> good
[09:37] <asac> siretart: you do bzr stuff for debian, right?
[09:38] <asac> siretart: probably you know that in debian bzr and friends are uninstallable because python-debian was updated :)
[09:44] <soothsayer> I want to enable a particular configure option. Where do I do that in the package? An older version of the package had an obvious configure rule in configure.status in debian/rules. The new version is pretty spartan (3 lines). Where do I specify the option?
[09:55] <Seveas> soothsayer, I assume the debian/rules uses CDBS
[09:56] <soothsayer> Seveas: I'm a bit of noobie when it comes to debian packaging, how can I tell? The first two lines are 'include' directives
[09:56] <Seveas> do the iclude cdbs in the path?
[09:56] <soothsayer> One of them being debhelper
[09:56] <soothsayer> Seveas:  Ah yeah, CDBS
[09:57] <soothsayer> include /usr/share/cdbs/...
[09:57] <Seveas> soothsayer, firefox /usr/share/doc/cdbs/cdbs-doc.html
[09:57] <Seveas> that's the cdbs manual :)
[09:58] <soothsayer> Seveas: Alright thanks. I though CDBS was only patch management
[09:58] <Seveas> iirc you need to set DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_ARGS
[09:58] <soothsayer> Seveas: Thanks
[09:59] <Seveas> ah, it's DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
[09:59] <Seveas> see file:///usr/share/doc/cdbs/cdbs-doc.html#id2541616
[10:00] <soothsayer> Yeah I'm looking at it
[10:00] <soothsayer> Thanks
[11:26] <soothsayer> Can someone confirm the following bug: libxmlrpc-c3/gutsy does not build from source
[11:43] <TheMuso> soothsayer: Do you have a bug number?
[11:44] <soothsayer> TheMuso: It's not an official bug
[11:45] <TheMuso> soothsayer: Well perpaps it should be filed.
[11:45] <TheMuso> but I'll have a look.
[11:45] <soothsayer> TheMuso: There seems to be a hardcoded directory in 'clean'
[11:46] <TheMuso> soothsayer: Well I'll have a look.
[11:46] <soothsayer> TheMuso: Thanks
[11:49] <TheMuso> soothsayer: According to the latest version report in gutsy, it built fine.
[11:49] <TheMuso> from launchpad
[11:51] <soothsayer> TheMuso:  Okay then. Though, can you explain the meaning of line 13 of http://www.pastebin.ca/662577
[11:52] <TheMuso> ok one sec
[11:54] <soothsayer> I should say I'm building on Feisty
[11:55] <Skiessi> http://www.wings2.net/index.php?page=download can someone put these in multiverse?
[11:56] <TheMuso> soothsayer: that explains it then.
[11:56] <Skiessi> to packages like wings2-fe, wings2-fe-levels, wings2-fe-music
[11:58] <Skiessi> http://www.wings2.net/index.php?page=about this could be the debian description
[11:59] <TheMuso> Skiessi: Is a needs packaging bug filed?
[11:59] <Skiessi> not yet but I can make one
[11:59] <TheMuso> Skiessi: Please do.
[12:12] <Lamego> Skiessi, have you checked it's license ?
[12:17] <StevenK> Ugh.
[12:17] <StevenK> And here I thought that 8am on a Sunday didn't exist.
[12:17] <StevenK> Worse, now I have to drive to Canberra.
[12:18] <AndyP> StevenK: i guess a "good morning" would be lost on you :)
[12:18] <StevenK> AndyP: At this point, yes. :-)
[12:18] <AndyP> StevenK: have a good journey though
[12:19] <StevenK> Thank $DEITY I'm not the only one driving.
[12:20] <AndyP> heh