=== tck [n=tck@213-202-174-229.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jml [n=jml@ppp121-44-210-226.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dwatson [n=david@planetwatson.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-072-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === J-Unit [n=jdong@SIMMONS-FIVE-TWENTY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tsmithe [n=toby@ubuntu/member/tsmithe] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck_ [n=tck@A-94-199.cust.iol.ie] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck__ [n=tck@213.202.143.251] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck [n=tck@213-202-158-216.bas503.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jetx [n=jetscrea@unaffiliated/jetscreamer] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck_ [n=tck@213-202-130-68.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck__ [n=tck@78.16.41.48] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ArneGoetje [n=arne@140.109.17.84] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xhaker [n=xhaker@83-223-177-114.cpe.netmadeira.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont wonders if dovecot should not build-depend on drac-dev, or if drac-dev should move to main.... === highvolt1ge [n=highvolt@41.243.32.64] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck_ [n=tck@213-202-170-19.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:27] can anyone file a bug for me ? vino-server (and other vnc servers) aparently depend on an US keyboard layout to work correctly [02:27] same story with splix and cupsddk === mbiebl [n=michael@e180073138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:33] lamont, why? [02:33] ScottK: because main packages aren't allowed to build-depend on universe packages... [02:34] Understand that, but why drac-dev? [02:34] nfc why dovecot build-depends drac-dev [02:34] Ah [02:34] I misread. [02:35] I missed the not. [02:35] Nevermind. [02:35] ah, ok. === ScottK is doing a Dapper straight to Gutsy dist-upgrade as an experiment. [02:35] you had me wondering about your mentation there fir a minute... :-) [02:35] ScottK: I wonder if they fixed the getty tty issue [02:36] s/they/someone/ [02:36] Which one is that? [02:36] My Gutsy hard drive died on Friday so I haven't seen anything on the last few days of development. [02:37] I had a Dapper CD handy after I got a replacement, thus my experiment. [02:37] dapper-> feisty would leave you with getty not listening on any serial ttys [02:37] Ah. [02:38] I've had to remove a lot of stuff to get past the conflicts. [02:39] Transitioning to using Upstart seems to be the lowest level sticking point. [02:39] Mostly I'm taking notes and I'll try and understand it later. [02:40] ScottK, what should i write in a package where the changes were bringing back and fixing a dpatch to fix FTBFS [02:41] Do you mean in debian/changelog? [02:41] oh, yes.. sorry. [02:42] I'd put something like " * Resurrected nameofpatch.dpact to fix FTBFS (LP: #nnnn) [02:42] .dpact/.dpatch [02:45] does anybody know what package is responsible for manage the network connections located at Places->Connect to server ? [02:48] Unpacking x11-common (from .../x11-common_1%3a7.2-5ubuntu6_hppa.deb) ... [02:48] Can't exec "locale": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Encoding.pm line 16. [02:48] neato [02:48] enigmail needs some love, too: thunderbird-dev(inst 2.0.0.6-0ubuntu1 ! << wanted 2.0.0.0.0) === tck [n=tck@78.16.19.229] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck__ [n=tck@78.16.124.109] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cprov [n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov] has joined #ubuntu-devel === J-Unit [n=jdong@SIMMONS-FIVE-TWENTY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chrisle [n=chris@e178111116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:10] jwendell: Appears to be nautilus. [03:10] johanbr_, yep, thanks === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:23] ScottK: but you should know that upgrades from dapper to gutsy are not supported? ;) [03:24] Chipzz: Absolutely. [03:24] so why do you bother? :) [03:24] Eventually upgrades from LTS to LTS +1 will be supported. [03:24] that was the one reason I could see idd [03:24] I was curious how ugly it was already. [03:24] but isn't that something to worry about after gutsy is released? [03:25] Worry more, yes, but if there was something that could be dealt with now, why not? [03:25] I wouldn't have bothered, but I had a hard drive die and needed to do a fresh install anyway. [03:26] well if you bother now chances are it will break again, so why bother? :) === gouki_ [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:26] On the off chance I'd learn something. [03:26] ok [03:26] knowing that what things are likely to break is a good thing [03:26] It appears to fall in the catagory of painful but doable. [03:26] it's your time anyway ;) [03:27] Yep. [03:27] I had to remove ubuntu-minimal. That was kind of interesting. Fortunately not for anything I was actually using. === Chipzz thinks we should really do something about kernel size [03:28] this is growing out of proportion [03:29] 110MB for linux-image + linux-restricted modules + linux-ubuntu-modules 2.6.22 [03:31] Drivers are large. [03:31] Hard drives are larger. [03:31] mjg59; found the problem i was having earlier [03:31] desrt: Mm? [03:32] mjg59; the dynamic linker does mprotect() to make the code read-write then does mprotect() again to make it readonly for purposes of performing relocations against the text section [03:32] so you see "dirty private readonly" pages as a result of that strange sequence of events [03:32] Hm. I'm not entirely clear on why that follows. [03:33] well... it wants to be able to write to code to perform relocations... but it also wants the code readonly at runtime [03:33] so it's a fairly reasonable thing to do [03:33] Oh, so the dirty pages are just relocation data? [03:33] ya [03:33] Chipzz: yeah, I've found that my usual 100MB for /boot doesn't work so well anymore [03:33] Makes sense [03:33] i accidentally linked some stuff in that wasn't -fpic [03:35] mjg59: like LaserJock pointed out, some people have seperate / or /boot 's [03:35] /boot is unimportant. The core kernel size has increased by an insignificant amount. [03:36] well it's /lib that's taking up all the space for me [03:36] I was just looking through the list of linux-image when my laptop crashed hard [03:36] it just shut down power with no warning at all [03:37] like an empty battery, except it's plugged in to an outlet === Chipzz suspects ipw2200 [03:37] Or broken hardware [03:37] just had an oops with the previous kernel [03:37] Oopses don't shut your machine down [03:37] they don't [03:37] PCI bus errors don't shut your machine down [03:37] but the bug can manifest itself in some other way in a different kernel version [03:38] like a kernel panic [03:38] which still shouldn't have shut down the hw [03:38] There's no especially plausible way for a driver bug to shut your machine down [03:38] reboot is easy... shutdown is quite difficult [03:38] anyway [03:39] Oh, yeah, at least half a dozen different ways of triggering a reboot [03:39] Power off requires specific writes to specific io ports [03:39] most likely broken power connector or something [03:39] Or memory registers [03:39] anyway [03:40] why do we have atm or watchdog modules in the -generic kernel? [03:40] shouldn't that be something for the -server kernel? [03:40] No? [03:40] The -server kernel is about tuning, not (for the most part) functionality [03:40] But we could remove "inappropriate" modules, which might save you 10MB or so [03:41] (The 1980s called, they'd like their hard drive back) === gouki_ is now known as gouki === ScottK bought a notebook hard drive today. The smallest they had at the store was 120 GB. [03:42] 1.8" is still limited to 80GB or so [03:42] This was 2.5" [03:42] ScottK: this is more about the size of partitions than the size of the hard-disk as a whole [03:43] ScottK: the smallest?? That's what my desktop hard drive was :-) [03:43] Chipzz: yeah, but Ubuntu defaults to just / [03:43] Yeah. That's the smallest they had in 2.5". [03:43] Chipzz: People who partition their hard drive are (in general) going to lose === fbond [n=fab@pool-71-169-154-64.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:43] I guess it's my fault for partitioning my hard drive up [03:43] If you partition your drive manually, you're claiming that you have a good idea about what the future is going to involve [03:44] which I don't like, but that's the way it is these days [03:44] still not a valid reason to discard the size of the kernel etc is irrelevant [03:44] Chipzz: I'm guessing it's not discarded [03:44] but less of a factor [03:44] Chipzz: Given the choice between functionality and 1% of your hard drive, we're going to choose functionality [03:44] right [03:44] a lot could be done with a little intelligent splitting of linux-restricted-modules I think [03:45] No. [03:45] Splittling packages requires a huge increase in maintenance load. === tonyy [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:45] mjg59: I'm notg suggesting dropping functionality; I'm suggesting looking at the split we have wrt udeb's and consider to use at least some of it for the regular debs too [03:45] What matters is how much goes into RAM, not what's on the HD. [03:46] Chipzz: And, as I said, that would require significant extra effort [03:46] mjg59: how so? like I said, we already have that split for the udebs anyway [03:46] Chipzz: Not in an especially useful way for restricted, no [03:47] I think you underestimate just how stupidly big the modules in restricted are [03:47] mjg59: consider this: a very common scenario is a laptop with ipw* + nvidia chipset === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:47] but ipw* is in linux-ubuntu-modules and nvidia is in linux-restricted-modules [03:47] And the consequence is that the user has ~100MB less hard drive space than they did previously [03:47] Assuming that they have multiple kernels installed [03:48] (I'll freely admit that our tendancy to leave kernel images around is a bug) [03:48] if you apply a little common sense to packaging, you could reduce the space requirements drastically [03:49] for example split all the wireless drivers into one package, split nvidia + ati into a seperate package [03:49] Your complaint that the kernel team lack common sense is noted, thanks. [03:49] it was not meant that way [03:50] Really. The current split is based on a balance of sanity and ability to maintain it [03:50] It's not like we decided to waste people's hard drive space [03:51] But there's a reason why the default installer doesn't partition your drive [03:51] my point is, this is not going to get any better at all [03:51] it's only going to grow [03:51] But so will harddrives [03:51] And so are hard drives [03:51] So it's really not an issue [03:51] The entire distribution is growing [03:52] We can only fit it on a CD because of magic nowadays [03:52] the point is that in maybe a year or so 2 kernels may take up about half a gigabyte of space [03:52] do you still think that would be acceptable? [03:53] i don't think you're in any position to speculate on the size increase of modules in the kernel. [03:53] so this whole discussion is rather pointless and i'd rather it stop. [03:54] *sigh* [03:54] Chipzz: The rate of increase in size of the kernel is commensurate with the rate of increase in size of the distribution as a whole [03:54] i'm willing to put money on the growth rate being barely linear. [03:55] So when it requires 40GB to install Ubuntu, then yes, I'm not going to be especially unhappy about 500MB kernel images [03:55] If people repartition their drives in non-standard ways, we can't be expected to support it well [03:57] linux-image-2.6.15-23-686_2.6.15-23.39_i386.deb 23-May-2006 19:08 21M [03:57] linux-image-2.6.22-9-generic_2.6.22-9.25_amd64.deb 03-Aug-2007 03:03 17M [03:57] linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-9-generic_2.6.22-9.22_i386.deb 29-Jul-2007 17:03 2.4M [03:57] end of discussion... [03:57] kylem: you should be looking at the whole of linux-image + linux-restricted-modules + linux-ubuntu-modules [03:58] lrm is irrelevant to me. [03:58] and we didn't have lum in dapper. [03:58] kylem: 03:29 < Chipzz> 110MB for linux-image + linux-restricted modules + linux-ubuntu-modules 2.6.22 [03:58] (installed size) [03:59] so, lrm packaged size doubeld [03:59] but we're shipping 3 nvidiot drivers. [04:01] ok, what this most likely boils down to is adding a few *.install files; would a patch be accepted if I made the effort of coming up with one? [04:01] nope. [04:01] (*.install files + meta-packages) [04:02] Plus the extra dependency handling, plus the increased opportunity for random upgrade breakage [04:03] besides, i just proved that the size only grew by 8M compressed, across 7 kernel revisions. so seriously, stop making mountains out of molehills. [04:03] kylem: I wasn't arguing about compressed size, which should have been clear [04:04] kylem: no offence, but you're clearly trying to discard the issue with irrelevant arguments [04:04] Chipzz: Working code doesn't actually tend to compress by an especially imrpessive amount [04:04] 03:57 < kylem> linux-image-2.6.22-9-generic_2.6.22-9.25_amd64.deb 03-Aug-2007 03:03 17M [04:04] Chipzz: And, y'know, telling half the kernel team that they're inept isn't an especially useful way to convince them to change things [04:04] chipzz@Vertex:/lib/modules/2.6.22-9-generic$ dpkg -s linux-image-2.6.22-9-generic | grep Installed [04:05] Installed-Size: 62504 [04:05] it's 3 times the size uncompressed than it's compressed... [04:05] guess what, the compressability didn't change from dapper. [04:05] Which results in an increase of 24MB [04:05] Would you care to guess how much ubuntu-desktop grew by in the same period? [04:06] probably a lot more [04:07] mjg59: I did offer to put some time in it myself [04:07] So the kernel issue is basically unimportant [04:07] Hard drive usage increases between releases [04:10] mjg59: anyway, I'm not trying to insult or be rude to the kernel team here, but I think the issue is being discarded off-hand and too easily [04:10] Perhaps a good measure would be the size of ubuntu-desktop per the size of a hard disk one can buy at the time of release for the price of 150 bottles of beer. :-) [04:11] Chipzz: Well, so far you haven't made any sort of compelling argument whatsoever [04:11] The installed kernel size is increasing significantly less slowly than the size of the full installed system [04:11] s/slowly/quickly/ [04:11] mjg59: this is not meant personally, but I think for example your argument about dependency handling is totally bogus [04:12] Chipzz: That's clearly because you've never had to handle packaging l-r-m [04:12] I think it can be handled perfectly well in control by using the right substitution variables [04:12] s;control;debian/control [04:13] Chipzz: We've gained 30MB from 6.06 to 7.10. That's ~10MB a release. [04:14] Really, that isn't a quantity to care about [04:14] blame nvidia. [04:14] say you split off linux-wireless-drivers from linux-restricted-drivers; that something which can be handled perfectly by editting debian/control and adding 1 .install file [04:14] Chipzz: You still haven't explained /why/ [04:16] because the kernel is an ever-growing package, which for the most part stems from adding drivers, only a tiny fraction of which is actually used [04:16] for linux-restricted-modules this also pulls in a lot of firmware [04:16] most of which is not used either [04:16] Chipzz: We're talking about 10MB a release. How do you actually see this being a problem in the real world? How much hard drive space do you believe would be saved? [04:17] In a lot of ways I want to have all of lrm available [04:17] depends on how much you split it, but depending on fine you split, a wild guess is you could reduce the installed size frmo 110MB to say 70 or 80MB [04:17] s/on fine/on how fine/ [04:18] per installed kernel [04:18] if I add hardware, etc. I don't want to worry about installing some other package [04:18] Chipzz: Look. I've spent this evening convincing someone not to kill themselves. I think that was more important to them than the size of LRM was to you, so do you really think you're going to win this argument? [04:19] mjg59: convincing some-one not to kill themselves is a very noble thing, and I applaud you for that [04:19] Convincing people not to complain about unimportant aspects of the distribution is also a noble thing [04:19] I can understand something like that tires you, so I guess I'll let the issue rest not to annoy you [04:20] Chipzz: I'm guessing the best way to go would be to send a proposal with some numbers, taking into account maintenance overhead to the kernel list [04:21] LaserJock: I was already told a patch would not be accepted [04:21] Chipzz: you were? I didn't really see that [04:22] 04:01 < Chipzz> ok, what this most likely boils down to is adding a few *.install files; would a patch be accepted if I made the effort of coming up with one? [04:22] 04:02 < Chipzz> (*.install files + meta-packages) [04:22] 04:01 < kylem> nope. [04:22] sorry [04:22] pasted out of order [04:22] Chipzz: No, that's based on your false assertion that it would just be a few .install files [04:22] well, you'd want to get the proposal accepted before the patch [04:23] LaserJock: from my experience with open source the best way to get something done is to put your money (patch :P) where your mouth is ;) [04:23] If you could demonstrate that we could save a significant amount of installed disk space with approximately no overhead, then we'd probably go for that [04:23] But I think it's unlikely that you could [04:24] Chipzz: yeah, but's also good to discuss methodology and feasibility before hand [04:25] mjg59: but if you still think size is irrelevant, how do you marry that with use-cases where space *is* relevant, like embedded use cases, which ubuntu is clearly going for (the lpia architecture)? [04:25] but complaint is with l-r-m [04:25] Chipzz: We build the kernels with different config options [04:26] Bear in mind that lpia is not an embedded platform in any real way [04:28] I'm not completely up-to-date on the whole lpia thing, but as far as I understand it is related to an embedded spec? [04:28] No [04:28] lpia has a 900MHz CPU (at least) and more than a GB of storage by default [04:28] That's not embedded in any real sense of the word [04:29] hmm, that's about lie my new oscilloscope [04:29] *like [04:29] mjg59: anyway, I do respect you for a lot of the things you do, so I'm going to stop arguing since I'm clearly just annoying you [04:30] I may take a look at this in the future and see if something is possible === airlied [n=airlied@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:30] why don't you just add something like localepurge? [04:30] and rm modules you don't care about [04:30] and not make my life much more difficult? [04:31] kylem: I'm not intent on making anyones life more difficult on purpose [04:32] have you looked at how the linux-image package works? adding install files would make our lives quite a bit more difficult... [04:32] those can most likely be automatically generated, right? [04:32] right now we just blat them all into one place... [04:33] kylem: correct me if I'm wrong, but you're already doing that for the udebs anyway, right? [04:35] that's more complicated since the udebs are only done for a single flavour, and only for certain modules. [04:35] so it would involve adding a couple of extra steps similar to the steps necessary for the udebs [04:35] Well it looks like I got from Dapper to Gutsy OK and with no extra rebooting along that way. It was interesting. I don't think I'll do it again. [04:36] we only add things to udeb when they're needed for the installer, having to muck about with where modules go everytime a new one is added is a pain in the arse. [04:37] kylem: anyway, if I were to look into it, and come up with a solution that would not involve to much pain on your end, woudl that be acceptable? [04:37] s/to/too [04:37] so, something like localepurge would be the better solution. [04:37] i can't stop you from doing anything, nor am i the only person who makes decisions [04:37] this is a community project... [04:38] but you are clearly opposed to it :P [04:38] anyway something like localepurge sounds like it will mess with the packaging system, ie a very dirty hack [04:39] Chipzz: Something like linux-wireless-modules is clearly impossible, given that wireless drivers come from three different source packages [04:40] The only significant space-saving you could do would be to split out the nvidia drivers, which becomes a nightmare for different reasons [04:40] mjg59: ok I'm probably too ignorant, but how do they all end up in lrm then? [04:40] Chipzz: They, uh, don't? [04:40] The only wireless driver in l-r-m is ath_pci [04:40] The rest are in l-u-m and l-k [04:40] ipw* used to be in lrm, right? [04:41] no. never. [04:41] the userspace daemon is in lrm. [04:41] s/lrm/& src/ [04:42] ipw2100 and ipw2200 have always been in l-k === Chipzz checks and stands corrected === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@S0106000b6a5631f9.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508DBB58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chrisle [n=chris@e178075067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-devel.log === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | UVF in place === Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Riddell at Sat Aug 18 12:32:46 2007 [05:46] morning === airlied [n=airlied@skynet.skynet.ie] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [05:55] hi fabbione [05:55] hey does anyone know if trackerd is expected to honour the 'indexing preferences' control panel? === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jml_ [n=jml@203-113-250-169-static.TAS.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:47] lifeless: I believe that it should, but that it requires a restart of trackerd [06:49] That should be easy to fix. [06:50] Make trackerd track the config file, make the preferences program kill -HUP trackerd (and make trackerd support reloading config on signal if necessary), or just kill and restart trackerd. [06:51] a reboot counts :) [06:52] and it ignored the 'dont index' setting :( === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:52] I realised this when it used all my memory and VM [06:53] Wow. Thats a bad bug. === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:54] Hobbsee! [06:55] LaserJock!!! === Hobbsee hugs LaserJock [06:55] that's when I just removed tracker [06:56] hiya ajmitch [06:56] hello Hobbsee [06:57] hmm, I don't even notice tracker on my computer [06:57] yeah, I just removed it too [06:57] i have a laptop [06:58] It'd be nice if it didn't exhaustively trawl ~/ on every login. [06:58] I wonder if it depends a lot on how much is being indexed [06:58] I only have 70G in ~ [06:58] I daresay most developers have very large $HOME directories. [06:58] I have a 360MB cache and trackerd takes 11MB memory [06:58] reading my entire disk basically on every login in is a terrible idea === lifeless stops ranting [07:00] trackerd doesn't bug me so far, but I have no use for it either [07:05] On notebook speed HDs, it is noticable. [07:05] Don't know about 3.5 drives yet, but I will soon. === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:15] Morning pitti! [07:15] pitti: How's married life? [07:15] Good morning [07:15] StevenK: wonderful! we had a great weekend [07:15] hey pitti [07:16] pitti: that was also the last one :P [07:16] congrats [07:16] fabbione: hehe [07:16] pitti: My answer to that for the first 3 months or so was, "It's the same, except I no longer have a wedding to plan." [07:16] pitti: congrats! [07:17] StevenK: heh, indeed; that kept us busy for a long time [07:17] LaserJock: thanks! [07:17] pitti! [07:18] Hrm. Nice. Ex Falso segv's on my laptop. === pitti hugs Hobbsee === Hobbsee hugs pitti back :) [07:18] morning fabbione [07:19] Actually, I'm wrong. It segfaults if $DISPLAY is unset. [07:20] pitti: Are you back officially? IE, can I bug you about NBS stuff. :-) === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:21] StevenK: give me some 20 minutes to look for some first photos for the curious folks, then I will [07:22] hey Hobbsee [07:22] pitti: :) [07:23] pitti: Sure. Point me at the photos too. :-) [07:37] ok, first six photos: http://www.piware.de/fotos/Hochzeit-Vorschau/ (I have a real mountain of pics to dig through, and lots are still missing) === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F73494.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:38] Woodchopping!? [07:38] good morning [07:39] dholbach!!! [07:39] pitti: nice! [07:39] how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood? [07:39] Agreed [07:39] hey Hobbsee [07:39] StevenK: yeah, that's a rite in Germany at least -- the new couple proves that it can achieve something together [07:39] dholbach: A woodchuck would chuck all the wood if a woodchuck could chuck wood [07:40] StevenK: ahhh, good to know ;-) [07:40] pitti: eheh funny [07:40] dholbach: And s/would chuck wood\?/could chuck wood?/ [07:41] maybe [07:47] hmm, is mvo around? [07:47] LaserJock: maybe a little early for th [07:48] at [07:49] k, but he's not on vacation or anything [07:51] not to my knowledge, but i dont know such things :) === pitwalker [n=bb@catv-5984c545.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:56] have anyone ATI RADEOX X550? !!! [07:56] pitwalker: i think you want #ubuntu [07:56] no [07:57] current ATI driver is so bad [07:57] I run currentlz xfce4 [07:57] and my keyboard map also crashed (y->z, 0->) [07:58] and my console characterset === Gasten [n=Gasten@h52n9c1o1095.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:00] pitwalker: this is not the correct place to come complain about bugs in packages; you're probably better off filing a bug [08:01] ok [08:01] hey dholbach [08:01] (besides the fact that you don't mention the version of ubuntu you're running) [08:01] hey ajmitch :) [08:01] have a good holiday? :) [08:01] this morning is painfullz for me (apt-get * 6) , kernel stops [08:02] I run 7.04 with all updates [08:02] ajmitch: absolutely - once I'm through my 30000 new emails, I'll probably write something up about it and post some pictures :) [08:02] AMD 64 [08:03] pitwalker: you know that AMD distribute their drivers, and not us? if you want to complain about the video drivers, you'd r eally have to go to them. [08:03] i write to AMD [08:03] i'm very sad :-( [08:03] Hobbsee: though I doubt his keyboard settings are related to the ATI driver ;) [08:03] Chipzz: indeed :) [08:04] Chipzz: i was merely commenting on the one that hadnt anything to do with us [08:04] before laters ATI driver, these thinks works good [08:04] things [08:04] pitwalker: but even then there's little we can do about the quality of the ATI drivers [08:04] I drop mz ATI card.... Thank for answers, thats all folks :-) === Shely [n=Sea@221.201.51.157] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:06] pitwalker: the big vendors (ATI, NVidia) most likely care more about complaints of big vendors (like dell etc) than about complaints frm individual users or linux distributions [08:06] (Chipzz: sorry I dont understand everything correctly, my english is so bad) === IntuitiveNipple [n=TJ@alexandros.tjworld.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:08] I hope: the time can solve this issue [08:08] pitwalker: what I'm saying is that big hardware vendors (like dell and ibm etc), which do buy hardware from ati in large quantities, most likely have more leverage in getting bugs fixed (though this is quite off-topic) [08:08] :-) === marilize [n=marilize@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kent [n=kent@80.251.192.5] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=sabdfl@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=thekorn@a89-182-84-20.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:46] pitti: At your leisure, bonfire, gaphor-lib, iceape-calendar, libgig3c2 and libmtp5 can be NBS'd out. [08:51] StevenK: thanks, done [08:53] morning sabdfl [08:53] hey Hobbsee [08:53] i'm always envious of people in timezones further ahead [08:54] feels like they are somehow getting a peek at the future all the time [08:54] sabdfl: just move to australia. [08:54] not sure they would have me [08:54] sabdfl: incidently, it makes me very good at predicting the future :P [08:54] i understand they disapprove of gentlemen's clubs [08:54] sabdfl: the long plane flights long take away any of hte timezone benefits [08:54] sabdfl: you're all turning up now, and it's 5pm. [08:55] i'd find it hard to know about the gentleman's clubs, oddly enough :P [08:55] pitti: Thanks === StevenK kicks Tomcat, and it's Debian maintainer. === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C4A53D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hoora_ [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-02ec325e11177803] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jml_ [n=jml@ppp121-44-210-226.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=thekorn@a89-182-84-20.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@hoth.linagora.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Nuscly [n=nuscly@29-231.206-83.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rulus [n=rulus_|@92.131-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@canonical/launchpad/carlos] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rulus [n=rulus_|@92.131-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Watersevenub [n=Watersev@242-211.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee grumbles. === mvo [n=egon@p54A67344.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:50] Hobbsee, dont grumble [09:50] hey mvo! [09:50] hey dholbach! [09:50] pygi: apparently alt+q is a shortcut for quit. [09:50] i really should disable that. [09:51] dholbach is alive! === Zic [n=Zic@Final-Fantasy.FF-IRC.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:58] <\sh> dholbach: moins..how was your holiday? :) [09:58] \sh: absolutely fantastic - thank you === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cassidy [n=cassidy@137.201-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sp4rKy [n=Sp4rKy@ubuntu/member/sp4rky] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zic [n=Zic@Final-Fantasy.FF-IRC.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === simira_ [n=simira@aine.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tfheen [n=tfheen@aine.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Nicke [n=niclasa@ua-83-227-140-135.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Patrice [n=Patrice@77.193.175.179] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:31] Mithrandir: could you give back kdepim? === Zdra [n=zdra@245.237-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:33] Riddell: nothing to give back, it's in depwait === tsmithe [n=toby@ubuntu/member/tsmithe] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:35] pitti: manual dep wait, and has been all weekend [10:44] Riddell: "manual" dep wait means the buildds put it on dep-wait because the package isn't available. [10:44] infinity: it's now available [10:44] Riddell: Without even looking, I'll give 20-to-1 odds you have a main source dep-waiting on a universe binary. [10:44] Riddell: If it's available, it'll be retried, no intervention required. [10:44] libopensync-dev installs fine for me with only main packages [10:44] it's a provides from libopensync0-dev, could that confuse it? [10:45] Oh, hrm, that could be broken code in soyuz. [10:45] Alright, I'll hand it back manually for now. === dholbach hugs infinity [10:45] what, more of it? :P === Arby [n=richard@82.152.178.205] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:52] infinity: Ping! === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:07] infinity: libnss-db, etc, etc, after UVF, etc, etc. :-P === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@hoth.linagora.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kent_ [n=kent@80.251.192.4] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A67266.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.12.228.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kopfgeldjaeger [n=nicolai@p54AD59D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:19] pitti: what's the state of this "mirror" system (wl_apsta.o)? i am not sure if i want to keep this all the time on the server (i do not have unlimited traffic ;) ) *g [11:19] Kopfgeldjaeger: oh, that was your's? [11:19] Kopfgeldjaeger: Debian changed the URL, I'll probably use that then [11:19] pitti: yes, atm it is not a problem (only 1 gb in some days, i have 20GB free traffic) [11:20] that's quite big indeed === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spike [n=spike@unaffiliated/spike] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:30]