[09:23] <mdke> mpt: I'd quite like to hear your views on the bzr issue, given that you're one of the few of us with a knowledge of the docteam processes and of bzr at the same time
[09:32] <mpt> mdke, which bzr issue?
[09:37] <mdke> mpt: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2007-August/009106.html
[09:47] <mpt> mdke, bzr's speed will continue to improve over the coming months
[09:47] <mpt> I have reported bugs on poor upload/download feedback, but I don't know when those will be fixed.
[09:49] <mpt> Another advantage that exists now is that people can easily work on multiple branches simultaneously -- instead of doing one, waiting for it to be reviewed, fixing it from the review, waiting for it to be checked in, then starting on the next change
[09:50] <mpt> (That may be possible with svn too without downloading a whole new copy of the source tree, but I don't know how)
[09:51] <mdke> hmm
[09:51] <mdke> mpt: interesting
[09:52] <mdke> mpt: would you mind posting to the mailing list about it (doesn't have to be today). I've got to disappear to work now
[09:53] <mpt> ok
[09:54] <mdke> thanks
[02:44] <jjesse> nixternal_: spent some time last night reveiwing docs and i still need to change/update add-applications.xml and everything else looks good so far
[02:45] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4285 ubuntu/switching/C/preparing.xml: Updating status of reviewed sections
[06:19] <jono> hi all
[06:19] <jono> is the packaging guide available as a PDF?
[06:20] <jjesse> i thought it was
[06:20] <jjesse> on help.ubuntu.com
[06:25] <jono> I can't find it jjesse
[06:34] <jjesse> jono: hmm looking
[06:36] <jjesse> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/pdf/ubuntu/C/packagingguide.pdf
[06:37] <jjesse> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/pdf/ubuntu/C/packagingguide.pdf
[06:37] <jjesse> for 6.10 and for 6.06
[06:37] <jjesse> dont kow if any changed for 7.10?
[06:46] <jjesse> jono: did you see those?
[06:52] <jono> thanks jjesse
[06:52] <jjesse> np jono
[12:17] <LaserJock> mdke: still awake?
[12:17] <mdke> LaserJock: yes, briefly
[12:17] <LaserJock> bzr thing
[12:17] <mdke> ya
[12:17] <LaserJock> I think it could be worthwhile to look into having a common branch
[12:18] <mdke> I really think we'd need to keep the same structure
[12:18] <LaserJock> then having ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, and xubuntu branches
[12:18] <mdke> hrm
[12:18] <LaserJock> I think we could fairly easily provide a script that would put them together in the right places
[12:18] <mdke> I'm just concerned about the potential divergence and confusion that might arise from so many branches
[12:19] <LaserJock> yes, that's understandable
[12:19] <LaserJock> maybe we can ask the bzr people about some of that
[12:19] <mdke> also, problems caused by the shared docs
[12:20] <mdke> on the other hand, I'm worried that it's not a conventional way to host packages in bzr (i.e. having the debian directories randomly around the place)
[12:20] <mdke> but then again, we do it in svn :)
[12:20] <LaserJock> yeah, but it's kinda a pain in the butt
[12:20] <mdke> it's ugly
[12:21] <LaserJock> for edubuntu I can't just take the edubuntu/ and make a package out of it
[12:21] <mdke> yes
[12:21] <LaserJock> I've got to make sure I move/remove things to make it right
[12:21] <mdke> I think resolving that issue is really independent of the bzr move issue
[12:21] <LaserJock> kinda
[12:22] <mdke> the point is really that we can do in bzr what we currently do in svn
[12:22] <LaserJock> in svn it's easy to checkout a subdirectory
[12:22] <LaserJock> I don't think bzr can do that presently
[12:22] <mdke> no biggie though, you generally need all our directories
[12:22] <mdke> even for edubuntu you need the common directories
[12:23] <LaserJock> I also find the sysadmin overhead argument to be a little lame
[12:23] <LaserJock> sure, but it would make sense to me to have "doc-base" and then "edubuntu" branches
[12:24] <mdke> LaserJock: well, if the sysadmins find it a pain, we have to listen
[12:24] <LaserJock> sure
[12:24] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4286 ubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: Merged power management into laptops, linked to touchpads from input section
[12:24] <LaserJock> but people have been doing CVS/SVN repo hosting for a long time
[12:24] <mdke> I don't really like the idea of having to get two branches to make a whole
[12:25] <LaserJock> the sysadmins are here to help us
[12:25] <LaserJock> so I'm not sure we should make that an overwhelming factor
[12:25] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4287 ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent: Added several new entities (oodraw, touchpad, etc)
[12:25] <LaserJock> possible svn repo downtime vs LP downtime might be better to look at
[12:26] <mdke> is that a biggie? both are almost always up; and even whe LP is down, local commits should avoid problems
[12:26] <LaserJock> well, did the svn repo go down?
[12:26] <mdke> I can't remember it ever having gone down
[12:27] <mdke> at least since I've been a contributor
[12:27] <LaserJock> k, that's a good thing :-)
[12:27] <mdke> my memory is quite bad though
[12:27] <LaserJock> I just wondered what happened with the "compromise"
[12:27] <LaserJock> we lost doc.ubuntu.com right?
[12:28] <mdke> no, the svn server is in the datacentre
[12:28] <mdke> right
[12:28] <LaserJock> so it comes down to the Canonical sysadmins not wanting to support svn
[12:28] <mdke> yes
[12:29] <mdke> we're the only project using it, I think
[12:29] <mdke> I have to go to bed; email?
[12:29] <LaserJock> I might
[12:29] <LaserJock> I'm mostly fine with the bzr thing
[12:29] <mdke> please do :)
[12:29] <LaserJock> I just wanted a quick chat
[12:30] <LaserJock> haven't talked with you for a while ;-)
[12:30] <mdke> we should have a meeting if people start thinking the same way
[12:30] <mdke> night
[12:30] <LaserJock> cya
[12:31] <LaserJock> so, is anybody here a docuMENTEE? :-)
[12:31] <LaserJock> theCore: ping
[12:35] <theCore> LaserJock: hi
[12:37] <LaserJock> theCore: anything happening with the packaging guide?
[12:38] <theCore> nothing yet, I have been too busy with Python core development
[12:38] <LaserJock> you might want to have a look at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPackagingHandbook
[12:39] <LaserJock> more specifically see who's doing it and perhaps if the want to collaborate
[12:39] <LaserJock> I think it'd help if more Debian people got pulled in as well
[12:39] <LaserJock> there's really no reason why a packaging guide can't be worked on jointly