[05:59] <sanzky> hi, does anyone knows if sun-java6 has some problem with the keyboard under feisty?
[05:59] <sanzky> i have problems with many applications not responding to keyboard
[10:20] <marcin_ant> hi all
[10:22] <marcin_ant> I got a question: why eclipse *.jar files goes to /usr/lib/eclipse/* while debian java policy says that architecture independent files should go to /usr/share not /usr/lib
[10:22] <marcin_ant> ?
[10:52] <doko> marcin_ant: these are jars containing binaries
[10:53] <marcin_ant> doko: you mean *.class files?
[10:53] <doko> no, so
[10:54] <marcin_ant> right - jars with *.so files should go to /usr/lib other to /usr/share
[10:56] <marcin_ant> doko: so? am I right or not?
[10:56] <doko> ?
[11:00] <marcin_ant> doko: am I right that architecture independent jar's should go to /usr/share/eclipse not to /usr/lib/* ?
[11:01] <doko> marcin_ant: which ones, and why are the arch-indep?
[11:02] <marcin_ant> doko: imho almost all eclipse plugins are arch-indep
[11:03] <doko> and?
[11:03] <man-di> marcin_ant: in general you are right, but eclipse is and its osgi impl is very special
[11:03] <marcin_ant> doko: only these with *gtk.linux.x86.* in their name are platform dependent
[11:03] <man-di> marcin_ant: we had split that into /usr/lib and /usr/share in the past and this gave much problems
[11:04] <man-di> marcin_ant: that was why we move alled into /usr/lib again
[11:10] <marcin_ant> man-di: hmm if you say so
[11:11] <marcin_ant> man-di: then another question - why do you keep images and other simmilar files in their original localizations (and then in /usr/lib) and override lintian warnings instead of moving these files to /usr/share/pixmaps and symlink to original?
[11:12] <man-di> same problem
[11:13] <man-di> eclipse osgi insists on all being in /usr/lib/eclipse
[11:13] <man-di> and this way its easier to handle for all
[11:13] <man-di> its know that this is not really FHS conform
[11:13] <man-di> but it works
[11:14] <man-di> afaik OOo does handle this similar, at leat in Debian
[11:14] <doko> marcin_ant: why don't you just help packaging 3.3 instead of insisting on policy conformance? ;-P
[11:15] <man-di> marcin_ant: if you want to help join pkg-java on alioth
[11:16] <marcin_ant> doko: can you give me some info how to help?
[11:17] <doko> marcin_ant: man-di and vil would know better. build-deps need to be packaged, then eclipse 3.3
[11:18] <man-di> marcin_ant: we are currently work on jetty and lucene
[11:19] <marcin_ant> hmm I really don't know what is the problem I got my own packages with eclipse 3.3 up and running 
[11:20] <man-di> marcin_ant: a good helper would be to get icedtea into debian/ubuntu
[11:20] <man-di> marcin_ant: the main problem is that get the build-dependecies right to get eclipse 3.3 build and running
[11:21] <marcin_ant> man-di: well iced-tea afaik is far away from something far from usable and I don't really have time to spend on something that I cannot use
[11:21] <marcin_ant> man-di: I could prepare packages for various eclipse plugins instead of iced-tea
[11:23] <marcin_ant> man-di: hmm I got jars with lucene and jetty...
[11:23] <man-di> marcin_ant: eclipse runs better on icedtea then on gcj
[11:23] <man-di> and for eclipse plugins we need first eclipse 3.3
[11:23] <man-di> feel to package plugins for 3.3 now but dont upload them into some official repo
[11:24] <marcin_ant> hmm weird - you compile eclipse with ecj right? not with gcj or sun java directly - am I wrong?
[11:25] <man-di> rigth
[11:25] <man-di> but ecj is executed with gcj
[11:26] <man-di> when I meant was runing eclipse. not building
[11:26] <man-di> s/when/what/
[11:27] <marcin_ant> man-di: just a moment I need to try :)
[11:28] <man-di> marcin_ant: there are lots of GCJ specific bug reports for eclipse
[11:37] <marcin_ant> right my package doesn't want to work with gcj
[11:38] <marcin_ant> something with equinox launcher - bu to be honest - I don't care
[11:49] <marcin_ant> if I got sun-java6 in universe then I will use it
[11:50] <man-di> sun-java6 will never be in universe
[11:50] <man-di> icedtea/openjdk will (or in main, I dont know)
[11:51] <marcin_ant> man-di: oh then in multiverse - who cares ;)
[11:51] <man-di> marcin_ant: its in multiverse since a long time
[11:52] <marcin_ant> so better idea than fighting with gcj is to prepare good packages that will run with sun-java6 right now and with openjdk/iced-tea in future
[11:53] <man-di> making eclipse build with sun java6 would mean to move it to multiverse, which is a nogo
[11:53] <man-di> and as I said already, building is not the problem
[11:53] <marcin_ant> man-di: imho it's better to have eclipse-3.3 in multiverse than no eclipse-3.3 at all
[11:54] <man-di> marcin_ant: feel free to do, but not with the eclipse package
[11:55] <man-di> marcin_ant: and again: building with gcj ist not the problem, currently the dependencies are
[11:59] <marcin_ant> man-di: I know - in fact you build eclipse with ecj...
[12:00] <man-di> you should really start to read what I write
[12:02] <marcin_ant> I do - but be honest do you know anyone that runs eclipse with gcj (and for _work_ not for fun) while there is sun-java widely available and runs a loooot faster?
[12:04] <man-di> I do
[12:04] <marcin_ant> man-di: while I am very happy that I can run eclipse 3.2 with gcj I still switch to sun-java because I need to do my job
[12:04] <marcin_ant> man-di: you have very fast machine don't you ;) ?
[12:05] <man-di> I do, but I use it on an old Athlon 1.2 Ghz too
[12:06] <marcin_ant> man-di: and you are happy with it's performance on gcj?
[12:06] <man-di> yes
[12:07] <man-di> its okay to use
[12:07] <marcin_ant> how much ram do you have on this athlon?
[12:07] <man-di> of course you need to make sure the -gcj packages are installed
[12:07] <man-di> 1GB
[12:08] <marcin_ant> man-di: I got duron 1,8 with 1GB and eclipse on gcj with aptana is impossible to use, with sun-java I would say that it's minimal configuration
[12:09] <man-di> marcin_ant: did you isntalled the -gcj packages? I guess not
[12:09] <marcin_ant> I did
[12:10] <marcin_ant> "vanilla" eclipse is ok
[12:11] <man-di> I have never seen big problems regarding speed with native eclipse with gcj
[12:11] <man-di> anyway, lunch time
[12:12] <marcin_ant> but believe me - with some plugins and especially when you open help system ( with tomcat) I need to wait to see what I wrote on keyboard
[12:21] <marcin_ant> and I can forget about usable 'intellisense' because it's useless when I need to wait for code completion longer than I could write code for myself