[12:39] <jjesse> sorry don't have my gutsy build in front of it.... the two repositires now enabled by default are multiverse and universe or universe and restricted?
[12:40] <Riddell> all of the above
[12:40] <nixternal> multiverse and universe
[12:40] <nixternal> hehe, ya, what da boss said
[12:40] <Riddell> main too
[12:40] <jjesse> best answer ever both :)
[12:40] <nixternal> This weekend, listen to score tickets to see Lynyrd Skynyrd on 9/3 and ZZ Top on 9/11
[12:40] <nixternal> OOH! Gotta start listening!
[12:40] <jjesse> working on add-applications.xml and want to make sure i reference correctly
[12:59] <angasule> hello, I have just found out there is no pppoe GUI tool, are there any plans to add one? every broadband ISP in my country uses pppoe...
[01:00] <code_x> hello knetworkmanager isn't show any of my wireless AP's can anyone tell me why ?
[01:01] <code_x> it work fine a yesterday
[01:18] <ScottK> angasule: Not every.  As an example Verizon FIOS does not.
[02:01] <angasule> ScottK: I said *my* country, despite your president's behaviour, your country doesn't own the world ;)
[02:17] <ScottK> angasule: You are correct that you said that, but the fact that I mistook which country you are from does not excuse gratuitous insults.
[03:02] <Riddell> new live CD images up
[03:02] <Riddell> doesn't seem to boot X for me
[03:13] <nixternal> same here
[03:38] <ryanakca> Weee! eGroupWare Server is almost done
[03:46] <nixternal> ryanakca: make my account "nixternal_is_da_man"
[03:48] <nosrednaekim> pardon my ignorance, but what is the eGroupWare Server? I know it was mentioned int he mailing list.
[03:53] <nixternal> Kolab I think, or at least I hope
[03:53] <nixternal> but ryanakca would have more info about it
[04:00] <ScottK> Not Kolab.
[04:03] <ryanakca> it's eGroupWare
[04:04] <ryanakca> I have to create the accounts in two places, mysql for the vmail, and then in egroupware... sure I could figure out how to write a script to create them at both places at once.. but I'm too lazy
[04:04] <ryanakca> eGroupware + imap + calendar + todo + a couple othe features
[04:05] <ryanakca> nixternal: kolab == evil
[04:05] <nixternal> uh oh
[04:05] <nixternal> Kolab is nice
[04:05] <nixternal> I am starting to use it at home
[04:05] <nosrednaekim> ah.. ok. I see.
[04:05] <nosrednaekim> kind of like *ducks* Exchange
[04:06] <ryanakca> nixternal: you are? from the repos?
[04:06] <nixternal> nope, from their website
[04:06] <ryanakca> oh... yeah
[04:06] <ryanakca> hmm.
[04:06] <ryanakca> They released a couple of months ago, right?
[04:06] <ryanakca> hmm.
[04:06] <ryanakca> oh well, egroupware works fine :)
[04:17] <ryanakca> hmm. anybody working on packaging KAider? http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Summer_of_Code/2007/Projects/KAider
[04:30] <ryanakca> Hmm. for groupware usernames, what's best (John Smith:   jsmith@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk, john.smith@g.k.c.u, smith.john@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk, launchpad_id@g.k.c.u, john_s@g.k.c.u, or whatever you can think up) ?
[04:31] <nosrednaekim> keeping it the same as launchpad would make thing a little less confusing. but what do I matter ;)
[05:59] <nixternal> does anyone have some info for the release notes?
[06:00] <LongPointyStick> we're releasing tribe 5!
[06:00] <nixternal> kdesudo, what is new about it that it belongs in the release notes?
[06:00] <nixternal> right now?
[06:00] <ScottK> nixternal: Please continue to rerun the GPG thing.
[06:00] <nixternal> my LiveCD won't even boot X, so we can't be releasing that
[06:01] <ScottK> Special energy saver edition.
[06:01] <nixternal> heh
[06:01] <nixternal> LongPointyStick: are they planning on releasing Tribe 5 like right now
[06:01] <nixternal> if they are, well then we don't have release notes
[06:02] <LongPointyStick> nixternal: Riddell's not up yet
[06:02] <ScottK> Riddell said something about spinning new CDs before going to bed.
[06:02] <LongPointyStick> i've no idea on the cd status, and you'll hopefully release before i get a chance to look
[06:02] <ScottK> They'll still need some testing.
[06:03] <LongPointyStick> oh indeed, but i likely wont be doing it
[06:03] <LongPointyStick> so that' sgoing to knock out the next ~8 hours or so
[06:04] <nixternal> same here...I would like to get the release notes done within the next hour, but I can't find info on the stuff that was added to the page
[06:04] <nixternal> the last kdesudo upload I see was a month ago
[06:05] <nixternal> what is the kdepim enterprise stuff?
[06:05] <ScottK> The Kontact crashing feature works more regularly now.
[06:06] <ScottK> OOO is in fact now working.  That's worth a mention.
[06:06] <ScottK> Especially since you were so sarcastic about it last time.
[06:06] <nixternal> ya, but there were subjects already added that I am trying to work on first
[06:06] <ScottK> Man.
[06:07] <ScottK> You ask for stuff.
[06:07] <ScottK> I give you stuff.
[06:07] <ScottK> You complain.
[06:07] <nixternal> that is easy stuff to add, there is a list of undocumented subjects though
[06:10] <nixternal> is the k-r-m installed by default?
[06:11] <ryanakca> kubuntu-restricted-modules ?
[06:13] <ryanakca> w00t, egroupware works... I'll create accounts for testers, and then I'll have apg generate a pile of passwords for accounts :)
[06:23] <nixternal> BAHHHHHHH!
[06:23] <ScottK> BOOHHHH
[06:24] <nixternal> now I can't even connect to the wiki
[06:24] <ScottK> It's fine from here.  That's odd.
[06:27] <nixternal> possible to hold the release off for a day? :)
[06:29] <ScottK> How can you be tired? Riddell's been sleeping for hours now.
[06:30] <nixternal> 8 hours of class, 2 hours of teaching, 4 hours of homework, and I have to be up in 6 hours
[07:20] <nixternal> who unplugged the wiki?
[07:20] <Tm_T> I did
[07:20] <nixternal> I think Riddell has them do this every time now the night of release just to make me sweat :)
[07:20] <Tm_T> I needed it in my hot bath
[07:21] <nixternal> haha
[07:21] <nixternal> dist-upgrade went smoothly on my server
[07:21] <Tm_T> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu
[07:21] <Tm_T> works here
[07:21] <nixternal> I figured it would take a while to go from feisty to gutsy, so I went to watch TV, and came back...only took 4 minutes
[07:21] <nixternal> it works, but you can't edit it
[07:22] <Tm_T> I see
[07:22] <nixternal> ya, I am stuck with release note loss again
[07:24] <nixternal> hey, I guess my work on the release notes will not happen
[07:24] <nixternal> seems the server will be down for at least an hour, and there is no way I can stay awake that long
[07:36] <nixternal> anyone have a heads up on the KDE PIM Enterprise branch? what is so special about it?
[07:36] <nixternal> ScottK: what was the other thing you said to pimp? I forgot
[07:36] <nixternal> gpg of course
[07:36] <nixternal> oh, OO.o
[07:36] <nixternal> it finally works! :)
[07:48] <nixternal> I don't see the "popcon" stats in Adept
[07:48] <nixternal> anything I need to do?
[07:49] <nixternal> never mind, I was looking at *manager and not *installer
[08:15] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5/Kubuntu
[08:16] <nixternal> I have completed the release notes to the best of my current ability. There is still the KDE PIM Enterprise stuff that needs to be written up as well as the KDE Sudo information...so please, Riddell or anyone else, could you please add it...thanks guys and sorry for my screw ups on this one
[08:16] <nixternal> g'nite
[09:51] <Tonio_> hi
[10:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: please ping when arround concerning kdebluetooth :)
[10:28] <Riddell> ping Tonio_
[10:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: hey how are you ? :)
[10:29] <Riddell> alive, alert, awake and enthusiastic
[10:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: I saw your comments yesterday
[10:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just patched to remove the "no device found", I couldn't see that one as all my machines are bluetooth enabled
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning the file conflict, that's just due to the debian sync
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just added a conflict between libkbluetooth and kdebluetooth < 1, so that should fix
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll upload right now
[10:30] <Riddell> and replaces?
[10:30] <Tonio_> it doesn't replaces, as there is also a kdebluetooth package
[10:31] <Tonio_> the package is now split in 2 parts, which results the file conflict....
[10:31] <Riddell> it does replace, it has an overlapping file
[10:31] <Tonio_> hum.... I'm more used to use replace when a package is renamed or so
[10:32] <Tonio_> well if you beleive that's needed I can had that too
[10:33] <Riddell> generally you use c/r together
[10:34] <Tonio_> yeah, but I never did that in that precise context
[10:34] <Tonio_> Riddell:
[10:34] <Tonio_> Conflicts: kdebluetooth ( < ${binary:Version} )
[10:34] <Tonio_> Replaces: kdebluetooth ( < ${binary:Version} )
[10:35] <Tonio_> should do the trick I guess
[10:35] <Riddell> << not <
[10:35] <Tonio_> true
[10:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: about the "no device blabla" message, I would have a different approach
[10:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: it can be interesting to know if a device is found or not in my opinion, and the problem is more that kbluetooth should autostart
[10:36] <Tonio_> no reason to use it if you don't use bluetooth right ? ;)
[10:36] <Riddell> you might insert a device
[10:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: what would you prefer between patching this error message, or removing kbluetooth autostart ?
[10:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah but if you do, you might start kdebluetooth the very first time, which makes sense (same way on windows or osx, were you have to enable bluetooth then)
[10:37] <Tonio_> that would make sense I guess
[10:37] <Tonio_> on the other hand, I never saw a bluetooth device that doesn't work on linux so...... maybe just removing the functionnality is enough
[10:38] <Riddell> I'd think that if you have a bluetooth device, it should just work
[10:38] <Riddell> no need to start anything
[10:38] <Tonio_> okay
[10:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: btw there is something I can't test, but I'd like too
[10:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: what in the systray when no device is inserted ? do you see the icon ?
[10:39] <Tonio_> ideal would be that the icon only shows when the device is detected, but I can't test how that works....
[10:39] <Tonio_> I may suggest that to _stefans_ ;)
[10:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: fancy testing the je building kbluetooth packages then ?
[10:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: one last thing : http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/479
[10:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: as you can see the app quits when no device is detected
[10:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: means you have to restart kbluetooth when you plug the device.... that's different of the way previous versions did work
[10:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: with the old versions you could just plug the device and start using it..... you might not like the way this works btw :)
[10:43] <Riddell> that does seem like a step back
[10:43] <Riddell> je building?
[10:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah, doesn't allow hotplug of the device.... bad thing
[10:44] <Tonio_> I'm just building it so you can test for the error message and file conflict on upgrade
[10:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ask _stefans_ to have a look at that hotplug thing and icon hiding, shouldn't be that hard to do for a developper :)
[11:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: have a usb bluetooth key for testing or not ?
[11:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: as the app quits when no device is detected, I wondered what happens i the device is unpluged while kbluetooth works....
[11:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: looking at the code, it "should" be able to detect the device on hotplug....
[11:13] <allee> Tonio_: hi,  about bt autostart.  Can't we use try_exec (sp?) and check if hciconfig return any output if yes start kbt.  When inserting an USB stick it should be possible to start kbt
[11:14] <Tonio_> allee: seems sensible indeed
[11:15] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, I don't have any bluetooth stuff
[11:15] <Tonio_> allee: btw we should test with DBusHcid I guess :)
[11:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki
[11:15] <Tonio_> allee: have a pc without bluetooth and a usb key ?
[11:16] <Tonio_> allee: no problem with kbt autostart in fact, as long as the icon dynamically shows when a device is inserted imho
[11:17] <Tonio_> allee: the point is that I'm unsure if the device detection is only performed when kbluetooth is started
[11:18] <Tonio_> allee: what about playing with dbus/event.d ?
[11:18] <Tonio_> allee: should be possible to detect a usb key has been inserted and then start kbluetooth I suspect
[11:18] <allee> Tonio_: yes, my familie pc is one of the old ones without BT that uses an AVM BT stick.   But all Dell Latitude allows you to switch of BT via hotkey
[11:19] <Tonio_> allee: what if you unplug the device while kbluetooth is running, and then wait a bit and replug the device ?
[11:19] <allee> Tonio_: I busy right now, but I'll test later to boot without BT turned on and after login to switch it on
[11:19] <Tonio_> allee: sure :)
[11:19] <Tonio_> allee: I guess we whould look at dbus to autostart kbluetooth
[11:21] <allee> argl, my gutsy Dell laptop if the old one without BT.  I'll see if I'll can find an BT stick later
[11:23] <Tonio_> allee: oki kool :)
[11:53] <Tonio_> anyhone knows where the oxygen icons have gone ? I can't find them...
[11:53] <Riddell> into kde 4?
[11:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah but I wondered which branch :)
[11:56] <Riddell> trunk
[11:56] <Riddell> kdebase/runtime
[11:56] <Tonio_> super thanks ;)
[12:09] <mhb> good afternoon
[01:15] <mhb> it's silent today
[01:16] <Riddell> grumble, tribe, grumble
[01:16] <Riddell> feel free to start testing CDs
[01:21] <mhb> Riddell: roger
[01:52] <mhb> ScottK: ping
[02:18] <ScottK> Pong
[02:18] <ScottK> mhb: ^^
[02:18] <nixternal> mornin'
[02:19] <manchicken> Howdy Hobbsee :)
[02:19] <mhb> hi all
[02:20] <mhb> ScottK: you told me you could do some more triaging for bug 133218
[02:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133218 in restricted-manager "restricted-manager-kde crashed with TypeError in description()" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133218
[02:20] <mhb> ScottK: I'm not able to reproduce it with the latest packages (and the reporter can't too), so could you help me a bit?
[02:20] <ScottK> mhb: I'm just waking up, but let me go check and make sure r-m-k is still dead.
[02:22] <ScottK> mhb: Yep. Still dies here.
[02:26] <mhb> ScottK: fully updated?
[02:26] <ScottK> As of yesterday.  Let me check.
[02:26] <mhb> ScottK: also, could you tell me what restricted drivers does your system need? If you're not sure, you could install restricted-manager (the GNOME one) and tell from that.
[02:26] <ScottK> Yep
[02:27] <ScottK> Mine is just the modem and the wireless card.
[02:27] <ScottK> No video.
[02:27] <mhb> ScottK: broadcom?
[02:28] <ScottK> Atheros
[02:31] <ScottK2> mhb: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01)
[02:35] <mhb> thanks
[02:35] <nixternal> Riddell: do you have a quick second to provide info on kdesudo and kde pim enterprise so I can finish up the release notes?
[02:36] <nixternal> I just installed r-m-k on my laptop...it has the broadcom firmware listed, but I am not using that as it breaks my machine and lirc...what exactly is lirc?
[02:36] <Riddell> kdesudo replaces kdesu and means your password will be remembered for 15 minutes (or whatever you set sudo to)
[02:36] <nixternal> oh, rock on
[02:36] <Riddell> kdepim enterprise is a branch of kdepim with lots of fixes
[02:37] <Riddell> I don't actually have much more detail than that however
[02:37] <nixternal> that's groovy, more info than I had :)
[02:37] <mhb> nixternal: lirc is a bug
[02:37] <Riddell> the maintainer has left irc alas
[02:37] <nixternal> mhb: hehe, OK
[02:37] <mhb> nixternal: kernel bug, to be exact
[02:37] <mhb> nixternal: I was told BenC is working on it
[02:38] <nixternal> I noticed that on my desktop as well I think
[02:38] <mhb> nixternal: I think most of the machines are affected, mine too
[02:39] <mhb> ScottK2: the bug is coming from lrm_driver, which is a handler for restricted kernel modules.
[02:39] <mhb> ScottK2: could you please tell me all restricted kernel module names you use? I mean the names you can modprobe.
[02:40] <ScottK> Give me the command line magic you want me to do and I will do it.
[02:44] <nixternal> ScottK: have you added anything else to the gpg stuff with kdepim?
[02:44] <ScottK> No.  It's the same.
[02:45] <tmske> I installed cElementtree on kubuntu gutsy but python can't find it
[02:45] <nixternal> roger that
[02:46] <ScottK> tmske: Feisty or Gutsy?
[02:47] <tmske> ScottK: Gutsy
[02:47] <ScottK> celementtree is included in Python 2.5, so the Gutsy version of the old external module is only built for Python 2.4.  This is by design.
[02:48] <tmske> ScottK: if it is included, then how can I use it from python?
[02:48] <mhb> Riddell: have you fixed the pop-up on Live CD?
[02:48] <Riddell> mhb: no, it didn't work for some reason
[02:49] <ScottK> tmske: There is a slightly different path/syntax so code made for the old module may need some small changed.
[02:49] <ScottK> tmske: Consult the Python docs.  I don't recall the details.
[02:50] <tmske> ScottK: ok thanks
[02:50] <ScottK> tmske: In Feisty the external module was built for 2.5 as a transition measure.
[02:50] <ScottK> Code should be updated to work properly with Python 2.5 for Gutsy.
[02:50] <nixternal> wow, I am reading the Tribe 4 Feedback...scary
[02:50] <nixternal>  * Definitely, one of the most important missing programs in kubuntu is FireFox, Why?
[02:50] <ScottK> Sorry I can't be more specifi.
[02:50] <ScottK> specific
[02:51] <nixternal> whatever we do, please never include firefox :)
well I'd love a Gecko-based KDE browser</ignore>
[02:53] <Riddell> qt 4.4 will have webkit
[02:53] <tmske> I'm trying to install bazaar on gutsy, but aptitude and apt-get ask for the cdrom to install from
[02:53] <nixternal> yessir!
[02:54] <Riddell> tmske: remove the CD entry in software-properties-kde (and ask in #kubuntu)
[02:55] <tmske> Riddell: thanks
[02:55] <nixternal> OK, release notes are about as finished as I can do...I am in the middle of waking up before heading off to the uni to learn how to destroy computers with my elite java madness
[02:55] <nixternal> I guess you can say that they will be ready for release after one last spell check here
[02:57] <Riddell> nixternal: I added an entry for kvkbd
[02:58] <Riddell> a screenshot might be good
[02:58] <nixternal> roger, let me type something up and get a...you got it! :)
[03:09] <ScottK2> mhb: How do I tell which modules are actually restricted?
[03:10] <Riddell> run restricted-manager
[03:13] <ScottK2> OK.  I'll do it that way.
[03:14] <ScottK2> mhb: Cool.  restricted-manager crashed for me too, but in a different way.
[03:16] <mhb> ScottK2: yeah, I noticed a duplicate one for the GNOME one
[03:16] <mhb> ScottK2: it's an issue of the backend
[03:17] <ScottK2> It's a different error though.
[03:18] <nixternal> kvkbd stuff added!
[03:18] <ScottK2> and crashes yet differently if I sudo restricted-manager
[03:18] <mhb> ScottK2: could you post your crashes as a comment to the bug?
[03:19] <nixternal> Riddell: when are we expecting the Tribe release?
[03:19] <ScottK2> Actually apport is helping me file new bugs for them.  I'll give you the numbers.
[03:20] <ScottK2> mhb: Bug #134264
[03:20] <ubotu> Bug 134264 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/134264 is private
[03:20] <Riddell> When the hurlyburly's done
[03:20] <Riddell> nixternal: When the battle's lost and won
[03:21] <nixternal> OK...I am about to head off to class, but seeing it is the first day, I am hoping for it to be early, so I will be available once again in a few hours to help out
[03:21] <Riddell> have fun
[03:21] <nixternal> gee, thanks :)
[03:28] <mhb> Riddell: how do you workaround adept_notifier in Live CD?
[03:29] <ScottK2> mhb: Bug #134268 is the other one.  It's a dupe, but I went ahead and uploaded it so it would get retraced.
[03:29] <Riddell> mhb: same was I do restricted-manager
[03:29] <Riddell> neither seems to work though
[03:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134268 in restricted-manager "restricted-manager crashed with TypeError in description()" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134268
[03:33] <ScottK2> mhb: Let me know if you need anything else.
[03:37] <mhb> ScottK2: thanks, I will
[03:53] <sahin_w> When tribe5 will be released?
[03:54] <sahin_w> Im wondering, because I'm working on the hungarian translation.
[03:54] <gnomefreak> sahin_w: testing ISOs atm afaik
[03:54] <sahin_w> I mean I'm currently translating nixternal work.
[03:55] <Riddell> sahin_w: a few hours
[03:56] <sahin_w> Riddell: I'm nealy done with the translation of the announcment.
[03:57] <sahin_w> I'm just working on the Kubuntu one, because I'm a kubuntu user. ;-)
[03:59] <Riddell> :)
[04:08] <ryanakca> mhb: Would you be interested in testing egroupware?
[04:08] <mhb> ryanakca: why not
[04:12] <ryanakca> hey kwwii_
[04:12] <kwwii> hi ryanakca
[04:18] <\sh> moins kwwii
[04:18] <kwwii> moin moin
[04:18] <D_Cent> hi
[04:19] <D_Cent> is there a qt-class for displaying directories and files in a listbox?
[04:21] <\sh> QFileDialog?
[04:23] <D_Cent> \sh: not that.. i mean something that I can have in a mainwindow
[04:24] <\sh> D_Cent, check dolphin or kommander...if there is something...if not, you have to redevelop them or reuse some classes from kommander
[04:25] <\sh> s/kommander/krusader/ i mean
[04:25] <D_Cent> i use qt3-designer
[04:26] <D_Cent> i mean something like this: http://intelcentino.in.fujnpic.de/gftp.png
[04:26] <D_Cent> oh... wrong link... http://intelcentino.in.funpic.de/gftp.png
[04:27] <D_Cent> that's gtk, but there must be the same for qt somewhere :-/
[04:28] <\sh> not that I know of
[04:28] <D_Cent> hm...
[04:31] <\sh> D_Cent, write one class for kde ;)
[04:31] <D_Cent> lol... the program i am writing on should have been simple :P
[04:41] <D_Cent> hm... krusader uses want i want to use
[07:07] <ryanakca> nixternal: did you see ' We are also talking about a KDE PIM Enterprise branch, which is supposed to be the base for those who need a really stable branch for enterprise use, for example the Kolab people' from http://kdedevelopers.org/taxonomy/term/11 ?
[07:09] <ryanakca> hmm. address book from egroupware works in kontact :D
[07:10] <mhb> ryanakca: is egroupware working yet?
[07:11] <ryanakca> mhb: yes
[07:11] <ryanakca> mhb: only thing that isn't is sending mail
[07:12] <ryanakca> mhb: the error was port 993 instead of 143 in the config (I'm using mail login)
[07:13] <mhb> ryanakca: great
[07:15] <ScottK> ryanakca: Those ports aren't for sending mail.
[07:24] <ryanakca> ScottK: no, but it logs in using imap...
[07:24] <ryanakca> ScottK: At least I think it does. From what I understand.
[07:25] <ScottK> OK.  Just making sure.
[07:25] <ScottK> Please use the SSL version otherwise you'll be sending unencrypted passwords around.
[07:26] <ryanakca> starttls & tls = encrypted?
[07:26] <ScottK> Yes
[07:27] <ScottK> SSL ~ TLS
[07:27] <ScottK> TLS being the newer version of essentially the same thing.
[07:27] <ScottK> Also you'll want to not allow SSL v2 as it's pretty well worthless.
[07:27] <ScottK> Dunno if that's a default or not.
[07:28] <ScottK> Just something to look into.
[07:29] <ryanakca> "Aug 23 09:08:20 groupware postfix/smtpd[7447] : NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from groupware.kubuntu.co.uk[10.118.12.2] : 554 5.7.1 <ryanakca@gmail.com>: Relay access denied; from=<ryanakca@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk> to=<ryanakca@gmail.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<groupware.kubuntu.co.uk>
[07:29] <ScottK> ryanakca: Have you done Postfix stuff before?
[07:29] <ryanakca> ScottK: somewhat. Minimal/slim to none
[07:29] <mhb> ryanakca: how about a new account for me?
[07:30] <mhb> ryanakca: Account expired here
[07:30] <ScottK> OK.  Postfix has a lot of moving parts.
[07:30] <ryanakca> mhb: no, just means your login expired
[07:30] <ryanakca> login/session
[07:30] <ryanakca> log in and voila
[07:30] <ScottK> ryanakca: Please pastebing the output of postconf -n
[07:30] <mhb> ryanakca: no
[07:30] <mhb> ryanakca: it means it won't let me log in
[07:30] <ryanakca> ah
[07:31] <ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/668185
[07:33] <ryanakca> mhb: try again?
[07:34] <ScottK> ryanakca: DId you auth with SMTP auth before sending that message?
[07:34] <ryanakca> ScottK: you mean did egroupware auth? hmm, should be in log, correct?
[07:35] <ryanakca> nope
[07:35] <ScottK> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination means you have to either send from mynetworks or be sasl authenticated.
[07:35] <ScottK> Message came from 10.118.12.2
[07:35] <ScottK> mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
[07:36] <ScottK> So, not smtp auth, no message gets out.
[07:36] <ryanakca> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34814/
[07:36] <ScottK> 10.118.12.2 is the IP of your box, right?
[07:37] <ryanakca> And... I'm the only host on the subnet, so I guess I could add my subnet to 'mynetworks'?
[07:38] <ScottK> Adding 10.118.12.2 to mynetworks would solve the problem, but would also allow any application on that box to send mail without restriction.  Is that what you want?
[07:38] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm in
[07:38] <ryanakca> nope
[07:38] <ScottK> Alternatively if you could convince egroupware to send to Postfix via 127. something that would solve it too.
[07:38] <ryanakca> mhb: good :D
[07:39] <ryanakca> via port 127?
[07:39] <ryanakca> What's there?
[07:39] <ScottK> Not port, IP address.
[07:39] <ScottK> 127.0.0.0/8 is already in mynetworks.
[07:39] <ryanakca> ah
[07:39] <ryanakca> ok
[07:39] <ryanakca> hmm.
[07:40] <ryanakca> wee ;) it works :)
[07:41] <ryanakca> mind you, if adding 10.118.12.2 would allow any app on the box to send mail without restriction, wouldn't 127.0.0.0/8 allow any app as well? (The app could connect to localhost instead of outside IP)
[07:43] <ScottK> It's pretty much the same, you're right.
[07:44] <ScottK> ryanakca: What is virtual_overquota_bounce in your main.cf?
[07:45] <ryanakca> ScottK: it's a VDA patch so that when the user goes over quota, their message bounces, along with a note saying that the user's quota has reached it's limit
[07:46] <ryanakca> http://vda.sourceforge.net/
[07:46] <ScottK> ryanakca: There's a reason the VDA patch is not in the Postfix main release.
[07:46] <ryanakca> s/message/incomming messages/g
[07:46] <ryanakca> oh?
[07:46] <ScottK> Yes, it has been reviewed by the postfix devs and did not meet their quality standards.
[07:47] <ryanakca> Ah. Herm. So, what should I do? cut out the quota lines from main.cf, and revert to standard postfix?
[07:47] <ScottK> Additionally what happens when some address on your box gets full because it got hit by a spam run and you start sending bounce messages to random forged e-mail addresses used by spammers?
[07:48] <ScottK> You need to be very careful in your setup.
[07:48] <ScottK> Once you 250 after the last . in DATA the message is yours.  Don't send bounces back onto the internet.  You'll get yourself blacklisted.
[07:48] <ScottK> Bounces to forged addresses, are, for example, reportable spam at spamcop.
[07:49] <ryanakca> Is there another quota system that just drops the message? I assume dropping the bounce lines from main.cf could also stop bounces, but keep quota?
[07:50] <ScottK> I'm not sure what happens then.  I've never used the VDA patch.
[07:51] <ScottK> What I would do if I were you is think through what you are trying to accomplish and then go over to #ubuntu-server and very nicely ask lamont how he would recommend doing what you want to do.  Lamont is the Debian/Ubuntu Postfix maintainer and knows more about this in his little finger than I do.
[07:51] <ScottK> Lamont is also a reasonably approachable guy.
[07:52] <ryanakca> plan out/write out what I'm trying to accomplish and then ask him?
[07:52] <ScottK> Yes.
[07:52] <ryanakca> ok
[07:52] <ScottK> Don't worry about quotas is another option.
[07:53] <ryanakca> hmm. yeah
[07:54] <ryanakca> I guess. I have /var sectioned off, so that if we do get spammed, it wouldn't take over the whole system... but I do wish I had thought of sectioning /var/vmail instead of just /var & /var/log
[07:59] <mhb> ScottK: so you don't know how the atheros module is called?
[08:00] <mhb> ScottK: that bug report has 7 duplicates, so it's getting mighty urgent
[08:00] <ScottK> mhb: I can give you lscpi outputs
[08:00] <ScottK> Not sure what else I can do.
[08:01] <ScottK> When it comes to kernel stuff I am a user, not a developer.  Let me know what you want me to do and I will do it.
[08:07] <mhb> Riddell: you're the apport admin?
[08:07] <mhb> apport-qt
[08:08] <Riddell> moi?
[08:08] <Riddell> I don't have much to do with apport actually
[08:09] <mhb> Riddell: who created apport-qt then?
[08:09] <Riddell> a friend of pitti's
[08:12] <mhb> Riddell: ah
[08:12] <mhb> Riddell: is there someone maintaining it?
[08:13] <Riddell> mhb: nope
[08:14] <Riddell> although it's only a frontend, it shouldn't need much maintenance
[08:14] <mhb> Riddell: there's a error in the English description
[08:14] <mhb> Riddell: "... can be send"...
[08:14] <mhb> an error
[08:16] <Riddell> send me a patch if you want
[08:40] <ryanakca> ScottK: hmm. http://groupware.kubuntu.co.uk/~ryan/plan.html
[08:44] <ScottK> ryanakca: My head is kind of buried in another problem at the moment, so I don't have a real opinion.  Let me try again later.
[08:51] <ryanakca> ScottK: sure :)
[09:44] <nixternal> yay, tornado sirens are getting ready to go...I am going offline for a bit for safety
[10:02] <danimo> hi
[10:02] <danimo> Riddell: ping?
[10:24] <Riddell> danimo: hi
[10:25] <danimo> Riddell: kontact crashes, and so does kmail.
[10:25] <danimo> Riddell: kontact on startup (reported by others, too), kmail during mail fetch
[10:26] <Riddell> well, it's pradeepto's branch, blame him :)
[10:26] <danimo> Riddell: ah, you switched there just recently? I was surprised
[10:26] <danimo> Riddell: does kubuntu have useful debugging packages?
[10:27] <danimo> Riddell: and if so, where are they?
[10:28] <aplg|nb> danimo: same question I asked a week ago ^_^
[10:28] <aplg|nb> they are well hidden
[10:28] <Riddell> danimo: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-August/000330.html
[10:28] <Riddell> well hidden with an announcement on the -announce list?
[10:29] <aplg|nb> Riddell: I always get lost searching for mails
[10:29] <Riddell> it's on KubuntuFiles too
[10:30] <danimo> Riddell: who would look on announcement mailinglists? :)
[10:30] <danimo> seriously, I can't subscribe to everything
[10:34] <danimo> Riddell: do I have to do anything in particular to get the debug version?
[10:36] <danimo> something went very wront
[10:36] <danimo> wrong
[10:36] <Riddell> what went wrong?
[10:36] <danimo> kontact cant even talk to the dcop server
[10:37] <danimo> it just hangs and sits there
[10:37] <Riddell> you should just install <package>-dbgsym and it should just work
[10:37] <danimo> Riddell: I think thats unrelated
[11:29] <lucky_lucas> Hi, does anyone knows if the 6.7 ati driver will be release instead of 6.6.193 since it has randr 1.2 support
[11:30] <lucky_lucas> I mean will it be in (K)ubuntu
[11:31] <jhutchins_wk> !maint usbmgr
[11:31] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about maint usbmgr - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:31] <Riddell> you'd need to ask an X packager (bryce on #u-d)
[11:31] <jhutchins_wk> !m usbmgr
[11:31] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about m usbmgr - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:31] <lucky_lucas> Riddell:  ok thanks
[11:31] <jhutchins_wk> Bother.  What's the correct format for maint?
[11:33] <ryanakca> jhutchins_wk: the maintainer is Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
[11:33] <jhutchins_wk> ryanakca: Thanks, but I was wondering what the ubotu command was.
[11:34] <jhutchins_wk> For some reason, attempting to install usbmgr uninstalls a bunch of the system.  Doesn't look right.
[11:34] <jhutchins_wk> It's in the current release repos, so if this is wrong it's a bit urgent.
[11:35] <ryanakca> Hmm. for groupware usernames, what's best (John Smith:   jsmith@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk, john.smith@g.k.c.u, smith.john@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk, launchpad_id@g.k.c.u, john_s@g.k.c.u, or whatever you can think up) ?
[11:36] <jhutchins_wk> ryanakca: I'd go with john.smith
[11:40] <ryanakca> jhutchins_wk: just makes emails a bit more tedious to type out... seeing that some people have rather long names
[11:41] <jhutchins_wk> ryanakca: Well, you can try abbreviating them or limiting the number of characters, but the world in general seems to be moving to the dot-seperated full name standard.
[11:41] <jhutchins_wk> ryanakca: Really depends on the size of your org and how many distinct names you need.
[11:55] <Vaelen> At my last job I had a unix username of andyou01 and an email address of andrew.young@...  It was nicer to send andrew.young@... than andyou01@...
[11:55] <Riddell> hmm
[11:57] <ryanakca> Riddell, kwwii__ Any preference?
[11:58] <Riddell> yes, I prefer sleep!
[11:58] <ryanakca> hehe :)
[11:58] <Riddell> launchpad ids seem fine
[11:58] <ryanakca> night Riddell :D
[11:58] <ryanakca> Full name show up in the address book anyways
[12:01] <kwwii__> ryanakca: erm, I appear to have missed that...opinion on what?
[12:01] <kwwii__> my network went down shortly
[12:02] <ryanakca> kwwii: "Hmm. for groupware usernames, what's best (John Smith:   jsmith@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk, john.smith@g.k.c.u, smith.john@groupware.kubuntu.co.uk, launchpad_id@g.k.c.u, john_s@g.k.c.u, or whatever you can think up) ?"
[12:07] <kwwii> I think that launchpad ids would be best
[12:29] <mhb> Riddell: you rock man
[12:30] <mhb> Riddell: congratulations for the Tribe 5 (and sorry for the nixternal-like phrase above :o)