[05:50] <ubotu> New bug: #134189 in launchpad-bazaar "Heading consistency for code.lp.net/project" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134189
[06:49] <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 60mins.
[06:54] <fabbione> mthaddon: good luck
[06:54] <mthaddon> thx fabbione :)
[08:14] <jamesh> now your portlets should stay open if appropriate
[08:58] <superm1> the new upload URL for PPAs is going to be ppa.launchpad.net, correct?
[08:59] <mdke> does a subteam have permissions to push to a branch owned by a team?
[09:00] <spiv> mdke: yes, they should.
[09:00] <spiv> mdke: or rather, anyone that is a member of a team can push to branches owned by that team.
[09:00] <spiv> mdke: it doesn't matter if they are a member indirectly through another team, or directly in that team.
[09:00] <mdke> spiv: thanks
[09:01] <spiv> The only part of Launchpad that should distinguish between indirect and direct team members is the team membership admin pages, iirc.
[09:02] <mdke> ok, so same applies to bugmail etc
[09:02] <spiv> Right.
[09:03] <mdke> cheers
[09:19] <carlos> morning
[09:20] <superm1> mornin
[09:41] <Amaranth> i'm supposed to use ppa.launchpad.net for my PPA, right?
[09:41] <Amaranth> in dput, i mean
[09:44] <superm1> Amaranth, i think so, but it's not working for me yet
[09:47] <Amaranth> superm1: yeah, that's what i was wondering
[09:48] <superm1> Amaranth, the mail that went out yesterday indicated that it wasn't upload.launchpad.net, that it should be ppa.launchpad.net at least
[09:48] <superm1> i might just stop waiting around and just try the PPA tomorrow
[09:48] <Amaranth> yeah
[09:52] <superm1> Amaranth, in doing an nmap on it, it looks like they have a firewall up atm on port 21, hence why we can't ftp stuff in with dput yet
[09:53] <Amaranth> heh
[09:53] <superm1> alright bed time for me, i'll have fun with the PPA tomorrow. nn
[10:33] <Ek0nomik> yo.
[10:34] <Ek0nomik> Would anyone be able to help me sign the code of conduct?  I keep entering what was given to me in the *.asc file, but I get this error:
[10:34] <Ek0nomik> Please fix the problems below and try again.
[10:34] <Ek0nomik> (7, 9, 'No public key')
[10:35] <Ek0nomik> but, my key is already on the server:  http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C77D4B1&op=index
[11:09] <norsetto> morning gents
[11:10] <norsetto> I'm quite keen to use the PPA, but it seems like I'm stuck since a couple of days waiting approval for the launchpad beta team?
[11:20] <mrevell> norsetto: Hi
[11:20] <mrevell> norsetto: Sorry for the delay in replying to your message above.
[11:20] <mrevell> norsetto: I'm the person on the Launchpad team who helps people join the PPA beta.
[11:21] <norsetto> mrevell: np, take all the time it takes
[11:22] <mrevell> norsetto: I haven't approved anyone this week because we're about to move the PPA beta to the main Launchpad site, from our "dogfood" sandbox environment.
[11:22] <norsetto> mrevell: right
[11:22] <mrevell> norsetto: What's your Launchpad user name?
[11:22] <norsetto> norsetto :-)
[11:23] <mrevell> norsetto: Cool, just wanted to check :)
[11:24] <coNP> Are you really sure on that interface change of the bug pages? The "overview" tab is still there for what now the package name is meant. On the other hand we have lost the colors of importance and status :(. Furthermore experienced users are punished now with lots of mis-click( possibilitie)s. This is only my opinion, of course. :)
[11:25] <mrevell> norsetto: I've just checked your account on dogfood. (https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~norsetto) You're ready to join the PPA beta. So, I need to add you to the Launchpad Beta Testers team both on dogfood and production.
[11:26] <mrevell> norsetto: Done.
[11:26] <mrevell> norsetto: Okay, you can go ahead and set up your PPA now. Here's the quick-start guide:
[11:26] <norsetto> mrevell: thanks a bunch!
[11:26] <mrevell> norsetto: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[11:27] <norsetto> mrevell: really appreciate this
[11:27] <mrevell> norsetto: One thing, though: when we move the PPA beta from our dogfood server to the main Launchpad environment, you'll have to re-upload your packages. However, the change may not happen until after the weekend.
[11:27] <mrevell> norsetto: No problem :)
[11:27] <norsetto> mrevell: np, will keep that in mind
[11:27] <mrevell> norsetto: I'm sorry I didn't reply to explain why there'd be a delay in approving you. This week has been particularly busy, preparing for our 1.1.8 release.
[11:28] <norsetto> mrevell: hey, no need to explain
[11:28] <norsetto> mrevell: you guys are doing an excellent work :-)
[11:29] <mrevell> norsetto: Thanks for joining the PPA beta. Any feedback you can offer will be really useful.
[11:40] <ubotu> New bug: #134220 in malone "the new layout has no informations about the current version" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134220
[11:41] <gnomefreak> im gonna guess and say the oops i get when trying to view my branches is known?
[11:49] <Odd_Bloke> I have a branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/bzr/fix-for-124853 which I get an oops (OOPS-600E1094) when I try to access via the web.  I have yet to upload to it without interruption (which is probably causing the problem) and need to rid myself of it anyways.  Could someone just get rid of it?
[11:49] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/600E1094
[11:54] <mwhudson> it works for me
[11:54] <mwhudson> ah
[11:55] <mwhudson> ohfuck
[12:00] <Odd_Bloke> mwhudson: Was that 'ohfuck' related to this?
[12:00] <mwhudson> yes
[12:00] <mwhudson> we did a rollout this morning, seems it has a bug
[12:04] <norsetto> silly question: apparently my ppa is already in production (not dogfood). What fqdn can I use to upload?
[12:06] <carlos> norsetto: ppa.launchpad.net
[12:06] <norsetto> carlos: cool, thanks :-[
[12:07] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: i think you have a 20% chance of that page not oopsing
[12:07] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: it depends which app server  you get :/
[12:08] <norsetto> oh well: Uploading to ppa (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
[12:08] <norsetto> Connection failed, aborting. Check your network (111, 'Connection refused')
[12:08] <Odd_Bloke> mwhudson: Ah, that sounds nasty.  I've got through and done my thing now though, thanks.
[12:08] <mwhudson> cool
[12:09] <mrevell> norsetto: hi
[12:09] <norsetto> mrevell: I'm giving trouble as usual :-)
[12:09] <mrevell> norsetto: :) What makes you say your ppa is already in production?
[12:10] <ubotu> New bug: #134223 in launchpad-bazaar "viewing the index page of a bug you can upload to oopses" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134223
[12:10] <norsetto> mrevell: it is not in: https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas but  it is in: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[12:11] <norsetto> mrevell: I can indeed dput in dogfood but then I don't see anything in the PPA (nor I receive any feedback)
[12:12] <mrevell> norsetto: Ah, ok. For now, you still need to follow the instruction in the PPA quick-start guide - i.e. use the dogfood FQDN - as far as I know.
[12:12] <mrevell> norsetto: Oh, right.
[12:12] <mrevell> norsetto: Hmm, if you could wait a couple of hours, I'll be able to get a definitive answer on what you need to do.
[12:12] <norsetto> mrevell: sure
[12:13] <mrevell> norsetto: I need to speak to a colleague in Brazil. He hasn't started work yet, as it's still quite early there.
[12:13] <norsetto> mrevell: those brazilians, always an excuse to not work ;-)
[01:00] <ubotu> New bug: #134230 in launchpad ""Home" menu broken at help.launchpad.net" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134230
[01:12] <mrevell> norsetto: when you say you couldn't see anything in your PPA, after uploading to the dogfood FQDN, did you mean you couldn't see anything in production, dogfood, or both?
[01:12] <norsetto> mrevell: both
[01:13] <mrevell> norsetto: right, thanks. It can take up to 20 minutes before your package is processed.
[01:16] <norsetto> mrevell: nothing in production but the dogfood ppa disappeared
[01:16] <mrevell> norsetto: disappeared?
[01:17] <norsetto> mrevell: yeah, I don't see that anymore
[01:18] <mrevell> norsetto: I'm on your dogfood profile page and no longer see a link to your PPA link. That's odd.
[01:18] <mrevell> norsetto: Is there a link on your profile page to re-enable the PPA?
[01:18] <norsetto> mrevell: yes
[01:19] <norsetto> mrevell: should I proceed with that?
[01:20] <gnomefreak> ok for some reason it looks like if i use ppa.launchpad.net uploads to ubuntu archives :
[01:21] <mrevell> norsetto: Yes, please re-enable it.
[01:21] <norsetto> mrevell: done
[01:22] <mrevell> norsetto: Okay, I'm going to see what more information I can find out.
[01:25] <norsetto> mrevell: I think this: http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/<LP_NAME>/ in the quickstart is wrong? Should be https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~<LP_NAME>/+archive?
[01:27] <norsetto> mrevell: no, I think thats just because I have no archives uploaded yet
[01:29] <norsetto> mrevell: gotta go, wife is calling for lunch (those italians, always an excuse to not work...)
[01:30] <mrevell> norsetto: Okay, talk to you layer :)
[01:30] <mrevell> er, later
[01:37] <gnomefreak> mrevell: when i use pp.launchpad.net in dput.cf than i use dput file.source.changes it uploads it to ubuntu.com archive
[01:37] <gnomefreak> ppa*
[01:40] <gnomefreak> oh and if i change ppa.launchpad.net to the dogfood link it fails to upload saying it has already been uploaded
[01:48] <mrevell> gnomefreak: Hi
[01:48] <gnomefreak> mrevell: hi ;)
[01:48] <mrevell> gnomefreak: Thanks for preorting this.
[01:48] <mrevell> er, reporting,I mean
[01:48] <gnomefreak> oh ok so i did it right oh good ok
[01:50] <ubotu> New bug: #134243 in launchpad "When the person has no homepage description vertical spacing is weird" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134243
[01:50] <gnomefreak> oh and https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart needs to be changed to use stable/released information if it is out of beta
[01:51] <mrevell> gnomefreak: We're still in beta at the moment.
[01:51] <gnomefreak> that could explain why ppa.lp.net didnt work but still it wont let me upload it again using dogfood link 
[01:52] <bigjools> gnomefreak: what is your LP ID?
[01:52] <gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak/
[01:52] <mrevell> gnomefreak: I'm going to email all PPA holders to explain that PPA is still in beta on dogfood, for the time being.
[01:53] <gnomefreak> mrevell: ok is there a way to kill the upload since it went to ubuntu.com and i got a rejecting email saying i cant upload to it (that is known since im not motu nor core
[01:53] <mrevell> gnomefreak: bigjools may be able to answer that
[01:53] <gnomefreak> bigjools: i trying to upload to mozillateam PPa not my own
[01:53] <bigjools> gnomefreak: aha, ok I am checking
[01:54] <gnomefreak> k ty
[01:55] <bigjools> gnomefreak: what package name?
[01:58] <gnomefreak> nspr
[01:58] <gnomefreak> hold on ill get full name
[01:58] <bigjools> ok
[01:58] <gnomefreak> nspr-trunk_4.7.0~cvs20070713-0ubuntu1~mt1_source.changes
[01:59] <gnomefreak> im using this as a test becasue it takes all of 3 minutes to build ;)
[01:59] <bigjools> gnomefreak: I can't see any uploads for that package
[02:00] <bigjools> can you try again
[02:00] <bigjools> did you get an email saying it had failed?
[02:00] <gnomefreak> everytime i do it says its uploaded. it got uploaded to ubuntu.com not lp
[02:00] <gnomefreak> Upload package to host ubuntu
[02:00] <gnomefreak> Already uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com
[02:00] <Fujitsu> dput -f
[02:01] <gnomefreak> and yes i got a reject since im i dont have upload rights to ubuntu archives
[02:01] <bigjools> what about PPA upload, did you get an email for that?
[02:01] <gnomefreak> bigjools: it never went to PPA it went to ubuntu,com
[02:01] <gnomefreak> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
[02:02] <gnomefreak> when using ppa.lp.net in dput.cf
[02:02] <bigjools> And when you upload to dogfood, it rejects with an email?
[02:03] <gnomefreak> no it rejects in terminal
[02:03] <gnomefreak> Fujitsu: even with -f it tries to upload to ubuntu
[02:04] <gnomefreak> fqdn = upload.dogfood.launchpad.net  still uploads to ubuntu.com
[02:04] <bigjools> ok let me check that
[02:04] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: sounds like you're calling it wrong
[02:04] <gnomefreak> why is this a separate dput file than the main one
[02:05] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: what do you mean
[02:05] <gnomefreak> dput -f nspr-trunk_4.7.0~cvs20070713-0ubuntu1~mt1_source.changes
[02:05] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: if you're trying to upload to a ppa
[02:05] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yes, you havent specified where to, and it dputs to ubuntu
[02:05] <j^_> i seem to get subscribed to bugs from a product automatically, how can i disabled that
[02:06] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: so dput -f ppa file?
[02:07] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yes.
[02:07] <gnomefreak> k ill try it
[02:07] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: or whatever you've specified as in your dput.cf
[02:07] <gnomefreak> Uploading to ppa (via ftp to upload.dogfood.launchpad.net)
[02:07] <gnomefreak> much better ty :)
[02:08] <bigjools> sorted
[02:09] <gnomefreak> bigjools: yep sorry about that thank you for helping
[02:09] <mrevell> thanks for your help bigjools
[02:09] <bigjools> no problem!
[02:10] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: you can also set which is the default that you dput to, in your dput.cf
[02:30] <norsetto> mrevell: ok, little update, I have dput a package about an hour ago (to dogfood) and I still don't see it in dogfood (or production); 
[02:30] <Hobbsee> "oops, you broke it"
[02:31] <mrevell> norsetto: Hmm.
[02:31] <Hobbsee> hiya mrevell 
[02:31] <mrevell> hi Hobbsee
[02:32] <norsetto> mrevell: and don't tell me you don't love me 'cause I won't believe you :-D
[02:32] <mrevell> norsetto: hehe :)
[02:33] <mrevell> norsetto: bigjools is at lunch at the moment. He may be able to give you detailed help when he returns. He's one of the developers close to PPA.
[02:33] <Hobbsee> mrevell: you just dont want to admit you broke it, during a tribe release.
[02:39] <norsetto> mrevell: I see what might be the problem, apparently only one gpg key was migrated to dogfood (of course the one I don't use anymore)
[02:40] <mrevell> norsetto: Ah!
[02:40] <mrevell> norsetto: Now, that would explain it. I'm afraid that's something we can't fix until tomorrow, when my colleague cprov-out returns.
[02:41] <norsetto> mrevell: and that was also deactivated :-/
[02:48] <parker13> Hi guys. I'm trying to upload to the new PPA server as per the "Quick Start Guide", but the FTP connection is refused to ppa.launchpad.net. Is there a problem at the moment?
[02:55] <parker13> /who
[03:00] <ubotu> New bug: #134256 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse chokes when there is no commit message" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134256
[03:03] <norsetto> parker13: I just saw an email from mrevell explaining that
[03:03] <gnomefreak> parker13: try dput ppa(or whatever the name of the ppa is in dput.cf than the source.changes file
[03:04] <mrevell> parker13: hey
[03:04] <mrevell> parker13: You say you're following the quick-start guide. Have you used the upload.dogfood.launchpet.net address?
[03:05] <gnomefreak> or not i got a rejection email :(
[03:05] <norsetto> launchpet :-) freaudian slip I guess ....
[03:06] <mrevell> ha, yes :)
[03:06] <parker13> I've been following https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[03:06] <parker13> It just says to use ppa.launchpad.net
[03:07] <mrevell> parker13: I can't find ppa.launchpad.net in that guide. Could you tell me roughly where you can see that?
[03:07] <gnomefreak> mrevell: your email you sent out yesterday
[03:07] <gnomefreak> to lp mailing list
[03:08] <mrevell> gnomefreak: but parker13 says that ppa.launchpad.net is in the quick-start guide. I'm concerned, because I can't find that in the guide.
[03:08] <parker13> mrevell: Step 1: Edit ~/.dput.cf and add something like:
[03:08] <mrevell> gnomefreak: have you seen the email I sent today?
[03:08] <gnomefreak> mrevell: its not in the guide just your email
[03:08] <gnomefreak> mrevell: no
[03:08] <parker13> mrevell:  fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net 
[03:08] <gnomefreak> unless you sent me the rejection email 
[03:09] <mrevell> parker13: And that's on the guide right now? When I visit it, I see: 
[03:09] <mrevell> [my-ppa] 
[03:09] <mrevell> fqdn = upload.dogfood.launchpad.net
[03:09] <mrevell> incoming = ~<LP_NAME>/ubuntu/
[03:09] <mrevell> login = anonymous
[03:09] <gnomefreak> parker13: you saw that in the email not the guide afaik
[03:09] <norsetto> mrevell: confirmed; thats what I see too
[03:09] <parker13> mrevell: I'm not on dogfood, I'm just on launchpad.net
[03:10] <mrevell> parker13: You still shouldn't see any mention of ppa.launchpad.net in the quick-start guide.
[03:10] <bigjools> mrevell: anyone need any help?
[03:11] <mrevell> gnomefreak: Take a look at the email i sent today ... PPA is still in dogfood for a while yet
[03:11] <mrevell> parker13: Have you ever had a PPA in dogfood?
[03:11] <mrevell> bigjools: I think norsetto had a problem earlier.
[03:11] <gnomefreak> mrevell: when i get it i will, right now im trying to figure out why it rejected it
[03:11] <bigjools> norsetto: do you still have a problem?
[03:12] <norsetto> bigjools: well, it seems that the gpg keys from my account were not migrated correctly to dogfood; I can change them manually of course, was wondering if I should do it
[03:13] <parker13> mrevell: Oops. I've had the page open since this morning and I've just refreshed it now. Sorry for the confusion. It now says "upload.dogfood.launchpad.net".
[03:13] <bigjools> norsetto: yes, you should do that
[03:14] <norsetto> bigjools: okki dokki, problem solved :-D
[03:14] <bigjools> norsetto: did you get a rejection about GPG keys?
[03:14] <norsetto> bigjools: no, I was unable to upload to my ppa
[03:15] <mrevell> gnomefreak: ah, no problem. Someone edited the page earlier today, in anticipation of the move to production, but it won't happen for a while yet, so I had to revert the changes straight away. That would explain the confusion :)
[03:15] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[03:15] <parker13> mrevell: Thanks. Will anything we upload be 
[03:16] <parker13> mrevell: available on launchpad at the end of the beta?
[03:16] <mrevell> parker13: What's your Launchpad user name?
[03:17] <parker13> mrevell: parker13 :-)
[03:17] <mrevell> parker13: ok
[03:17] <mrevell> parker13:  let me check something
[03:18] <gnomefreak> ok lets see if it works this time 
[03:19] <mrevell> parker13: Right. PPA is still only available in dogfood. Dogfood is separate testing environment for Launchpad. It uses a database snapshot of production Launchpad from back in June.
[03:19] <mrevell> parker13: Back then, you didn't have a gpg key in your Launchpad profile nor were you an Ubuntero.
[03:19] <parker13> mrevell: Yeah, that's why I left it until now to give it a try.
[03:20] <mrevell> parker13: Both of those are conditions for joining the PPA beta. You can usually overcome that, because my colleague cprov-out can move them over from your main account. He's out today, tho
[03:20] <parker13> parker13: OK, I'll leave it for now. Thanks. When's the new launch date?
[03:21] <mrevell> parker13: I'll send an email out to announce it but it should be next week.
[03:27] <gnomefreak> Rejected:
[03:27] <gnomefreak> Could not find PPA for 'mozillateam'
[03:27] <gnomefreak> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
[03:27] <gnomefreak> why me
[03:27] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: because it hates you.
[03:28] <gnomefreak> im seeing this
[03:28] <gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/
[03:28] <gnomefreak> its right there
[03:29] <gnomefreak> why is this being a pain :(
[03:29] <Hobbsee> what does your dput.cf say?
[03:29] <gnomefreak> incoming = ~mozillateam/ubuntu/
[03:29] <Hobbsee> hiya Rinchen!
[03:29] <Hobbsee> right
[03:30] <Rinchen> hiya Hobbsee 
[03:30] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Has mozillateam had its PPA activated?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> Rinchen: at some point, i'd like to pick your brains, with laserjock, if that's OK by you.
[03:30] <gnomefreak> i activated it now im trying to upload to it
[03:30] <Rinchen> Hobbsee, sure, pick away
[03:30] <gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive Fujitsu 
[03:30] <Hobbsee> Rinchen: mmm...brains...
[03:31] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Erm, dogfood.
[03:31] <Rinchen> ah, I love the smell of a LP release in the morning :-)
[03:31] <gnomefreak> Fujitsu: it never had a dogfood account 
[03:31] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Then you have a problem. It won't just magically work from production.
[03:32] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Er, I see it there on dogfood... activate the PPA there and you should be OK.
[03:32] <gnomefreak> where is there?
[03:33] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~mozillateam
[03:33] <norsetto> bigjools: can you do something on your end? I've given the fingerprint but I'm not receiving any encrypted email
[03:33] <Fujitsu> norsetto: I don't think you can add keys directly on dogfood.
[03:33] <bigjools> what he said, sorry norsetto
[03:33] <bigjools> I jumped the gun a bit
[03:34] <bigjools> mrevell: can you get an admin to migrate his keys over to dogfood?
[03:35] <mrevell> bigjools: I'll mthaddon when arrives later. Alternatively, cprov-out can do it when he returns tomorrow.
[03:35] <gnomefreak> Fujitsu: ok done ill try it again
[03:35] <ubotu> New bug: #134269 in soyuz "IntegrityError activating PPA in a stale page" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134269
[03:35] <bigjools> mrevell: ok thanks
[03:35] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: That should work.
[03:36] <gnomefreak> is it gonna show up in dogfood until it is released?
[03:36] <Fujitsu> `it'?
[03:36] <gnomefreak> the upload
[03:36] <Fujitsu> You'll need to reupload it to production once production gets PPAs working.
[03:37] <gnomefreak> k
[03:43] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Looks to be working.
[03:47] <gnomefreak> ok cool ty
[03:48] <gnomefreak> will it automaticly send it build or do i have to do something?
[03:50] <ubotu> New bug: #134275 in rosetta "Missing download.png image in translation import queue" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134275
[03:51] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: They're queued already.
[03:51] <gnomefreak> oh i couldnt see them thats why i asked
[03:51] <gnomefreak> ah now i see them
[03:58] <SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting!  For the next 45 minutes, we'll be coordinating about Launchpad development.
[03:58] <mpt> coNP, I understand the problem you describe, but our designer considered that making project/package links consistent was more important.
[03:58] <SteveA> hmm, my computer clock says it's the hour, but my irc server clock says :58
[03:58] <SteveA> let's start anyway
[03:58] <SteveA> who is here today?
[03:58] <mpt> me
[03:58] <sinzui> me
[03:58] <statik> me
[03:58] <kiko> my clock says :58 too
[03:58] <allenap> me
[03:58] <kiko> me
[03:58] <jtv> me
[03:59] <schwuk> me
[03:59] <jtv> and what kiko said
[03:59] <jamesh> me
[03:59] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[03:59] <jsk> me
[03:59] <adeuring> me
[03:59] <carlos> me
[03:59] <intellectronica> me
[03:59] <salgado> me
[03:59] <gmb> me
[03:59] <matsubara> me
[03:59] <mrevell> me
[03:59] <mwhudson> me
[03:59] <coNP> mpt: thanks. I hope I'll get used to the new interface. Maybe you could bring back the colors that would help anyway. Thanks for your reply.
[03:59] <danilos> me
[03:59] <mpt> coNP, yes, that's reported, and should be quite easy to fix.
[03:59] <danilos> SteveA: fix the clock :)
[04:00] <bigjools> me
[04:00] <danilos> carlos: early ping
[04:00] <SteveA> danilos: I keep trying to, but I think I hit an ubuntu bug
[04:00] <carlos> danilos: early pong
[04:00] <seb128> OOPS-600D1677
[04:00] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/600D1677
[04:00] <SteveA> BjornT and bac can't make it today.
[04:00] <Rinchen> me
[04:00] <mthaddon> me
[04:00] <danilos> carlos: ah, haven't seen your 'me' already, sorry :P
[04:00] <carlos> danilos: :-)
[04:01] <BjornT> me
[04:01] <bac> me
[04:01] <bac> :)
[04:01] <bigjools> cprov is not here today, he is bending over for his examination at the US Consulate
[04:01] <SteveA> BjornT, bac: you're here!
[04:01] <SteveA> I guess the agenda page is out of date
[04:01] <bac> yes, sorry, that was last week
[04:01] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:01] <ddaa> me
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:01] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:01] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:01] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:01] <SteveA> ----
[04:01] <SteveA>  * 1k branch limits - barry
[04:01] <SteveA>  (other items)
[04:01] <SteveA> ----
[04:02] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:02] <SteveA> 
[04:02] <stub> me
[04:02] <SteveA> same time next week?  various people, me included, will be at an apis sprint in florida
[04:02] <SteveA> but that needn't stop the meeting
[04:02] <barry> me
[04:02] <SteveA> so, same time next week
[04:02] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:02] <mrevell> I will be on vacation next week.
[04:02] <SteveA> none
[04:02] <SteveA> thanks mrevell 
[04:02] <carlos> SteveA: is that the new way to say 'enjoying the beach and sun' ?
[04:02] <kiko> I won't. :)
[04:02] <SteveA> * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:02] <carlos> :-P
[04:02] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 134063, 134070, 134275, 134269
[04:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134063 in blueprint "OOPS registering sprint or meeting using date format DD-M-YYYY" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134063
[04:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134070 in launchpad "OOPS registering a team with renewal period equals 0 (zero)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134070
[04:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134275 in rosetta "Missing download.png image in translation import queue" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134275
[04:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134269 in soyuz "IntegrityError activating PPA in a stale page" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134269
[04:03] <matsubara> bigjools: can you take the soyuz one?
[04:03] <carlos> matsubara:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134275 is a trivial fix, change download.png with download
[04:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134275 in rosetta "Missing download.png image in translation import queue" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[04:03] <bigjools> matsubara: it's best left for cprov
[04:03] <carlos> I will do it
[04:03] <kiko> bigjools, the page just needs to check if it already exists.
[04:03] <kiko> bigjools, it's an easy fix
[04:04] <matsubara> thanks carlos
[04:04] <matsubara> who can take the blueprint one? jsk or intellectronica ?
[04:04] <jsk> yeah
[04:04] <intellectronica> matsubara: blueprint one?
[04:04] <jsk> bug 134063
[04:04] <kiko> intellectronica, the sprint one, IOW
[04:04] <matsubara> salgado: the team renewal is yours 
[04:04] <bigjools> kiko: I already discussed with matsubara and he said it wasn't urgent but I can do it if necessary
[04:05] <salgado> matsubara, I may not have time for it on this cycle
[04:05] <kiko> bigjools, it's not urgent but it might be more of an issue as people start activating PPAs in production, which is why I think it might be a good candidate for an rc today
[04:05] <bigjools> ok
[04:05] <matsubara> kiko, bigjools I targeted it to the next cycle, but I don't think it needs a CP
[04:05] <kiko> sinzui, can you take salgado's two OOPSes?
[04:05] <sinzui> kiko: yes
[04:05] <kiko> matsubara, won't it happen more often now that people will start using PPAs? I bet it will
[04:05] <kiko> thanks man
[04:06] <matsubara> kiko: might happen, oops reports will tell. cprov told me it's an easy fix though
[04:06] <kiko> matsubara, that's my point -- today is the last day for an easy RC
[04:07] <kiko> after that it really requires a CP
[04:07] <matsubara> kiko: would you approve that as RC? I'm fine with that.
[04:08] <kiko> yes, provided the patch didn't rewrite the world :)
[04:08] <matsubara> carlos patch could be RC as well
[04:08] <matsubara> and it's trivial and it's generating lots of notfounds :-)
[04:08] <kiko> yes, I'd love that.
[04:08] <carlos> ok
[04:08] <kiko> matsubara, did that not show up in the older staging reports?
[04:08] <kiko> or did we miss it?
[04:08] <carlos> matsubara: the only thing is that I'm not sure how to write a test for it
[04:09] <carlos> other than that, it should be a single line patch
[04:09] <matsubara> kiko: missed it. it's in the last reports
[04:09] <mpt> For that, the OOPS report *is* the test, no?
[04:09] <kiko> carlos, notfound traversals?
[04:09] <carlos> kiko: well, the problem is that the link was pointing to the wrong url
[04:09] <kiko> matsubara, garr
[04:09] <carlos> not that the resource was not correct
[04:10] <matsubara> ok. discussion about how to fix/test can happen in the bug report.
[04:10] <carlos> s/correct/available/
[04:10] <carlos> matsubara: sure
[04:10] <matsubara> SteveA: I'm done here.
[04:10] <matsubara> thanks
[04:11] <SteveA> thanks matsubara !
[04:11] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:11] <Rinchen> For those of you with Fix Committed bugs, please remember to mark them Fixed Released! 
[04:11] <Rinchen> Status updates needed for bug 131043 (jamesh) and bug 132422 (barry) 
[04:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131043 in launchpad "database adapter serialisation tests disabled" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131043
[04:11] <ubotu> Bug 132422 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132422 is private
[04:11] <Rinchen> I need someone to take bug 133630 (maybe barry?)
[04:11] <ubotu> Bug 133630 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/133630 is private
[04:11] <jamesh> no change on 131043
[04:11] <Rinchen> and a reminder to jtv to close-out bug 132660 
[04:11] <ubotu> Bug 132660 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132660 is private
[04:11] <Rinchen> thanks jamesh 
[04:11] <barry> Rinchen: no change on 132422 yet
[04:11] <jtv> Rinchen: sure, thanks
[04:12] <Rinchen> thanks barry, do you have a timeline for132422?
[04:12] <Rinchen> jtv, thanks. That went ok?
[04:12] <jtv> Rinchen: no failures "yet," according to matsubara
[04:12] <barry> Rinchen: not sure. it's tricky.  is it critical?
[04:12] <barry> Rinchen: i can take 133630
[04:13] <Rinchen> barry, thanks for 133630
[04:13] <barry> Rinchen: but that one will take some investigation, so no eta on it
[04:13] <Rinchen> carlos, can you advise on 132422 since you filed it?
[04:13] <matsubara> jtv: later on today I'll re-run the oops report and let you know if anything shows up
[04:13] <jtv> matsubara: cool, thanks
[04:13] <stub> Do we have tracebacks for Bug #133630 ?
[04:13] <ubotu> Bug 133630 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/133630 is private
[04:14] <kiko> stub, in the mailing list archives I think
[04:14] <carlos> Rinchen: I don't know, I just detected it with make lint
[04:14] <Rinchen> carlos, ok, thanks.
[04:15] <barry> carlos: yes, w/make lint the /problem/ is obvious :)
[04:15] <Rinchen> barry, if you find you are missing information this week on this last one, let me know and I'll try to dig up more details.
[04:15] <Rinchen> thanks all, SteveA back to you
[04:16] <SteveA> thanks Rinchen !
[04:16] <barry> Rinchen: cool
[04:16] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:16] <SteveA> two proposals today
[04:16] <SteveA> packaging
[04:16] <SteveA> for 
[04:16] <SteveA> Project-package links -- not obviously either Registry or Soyuz 
[04:17] <SteveA> my first thought is to say "they're soyuz"
[04:17] <mpt> I misworded that rationale
[04:17] <SteveA> I'm interested in what other people think
[04:17] <mpt> I think that tag would be useful even after a decision about what "project" those bugs belong in.
[04:17] <mpt> because they're bugs that would often be fixed together.
[04:18] <SteveA> could the tag name 'packaging' be confused with the idea of "we need a new launchpad-dependencies package" ?
[04:18] <mpt> yes
[04:18] <BjornT> "packaging" sounds more like problems with a package, or something needs to be done to package something
[04:18] <mpt> I was just about to say, it's not necessarily the best name
[04:18] <salgado> yes, that's what I thought it was initially
[04:19] <kiko> SteveA, they aren't soyuz, really.
[04:19] <SteveA> while we consider this one a bit more, let's look at the other proposed tag
[04:19] <SteveA> importqueue
[04:19] <SteveA> Translations import queue bugs: import queue bugs usually affect only 'rosetta admins' team, but are almost completely independent from other Translations bugs. (Maybe reuse 'rosetta-imports' tag for this as well?)
[04:19] <danilos> SteveA: the other one is from last week, and I haven't done any action as suggested
[04:19] <SteveA> 
[04:20] <SteveA> we discussed this last week
[04:20] <danilos> SteveA: I am ok with moving it to 'Declined' until I come up with better and clearer reasoning
[04:20] <SteveA> ok, let's reject that one for now.  you can use the rosetta-imports tag.
[04:20] <SteveA> ok
[04:20] <SteveA> thanks danilos 
[04:20] <danilos> thanks, Steve
[04:20] <kiko> I think packaging is a bad tag, but I think it's worth a tag
[04:20] <SteveA> kiko: my rationale for saying they're soyuz is, if we removed soyuz from launchpad, these links would go too.
[04:21] <kiko> SteveA, that's not a very good rationale.
[04:21] <SteveA> but then, the same is true if we removed the registry
[04:21] <kiko> the issue is that this is really something that spans LP
[04:21] <mpt> If we removed the registry, *most* of Launchpad would disappear
[04:21] <seb128> should browsing https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus/ubuntu work? it oops at the moment :/
[04:21] <kiko> and most of the work that needs doing is actually /not/ in soyuz
[04:21] <kiko> seb128, not yet
[04:21] <SteveA> kiko: how about calling it the name package-links ?
[04:21] <SteveA> or package-link
[04:21] <kiko> SteveA, that's a better name
[04:22] <mpt> ok
[04:22] <kiko> seb128, doesn't OOPS for me, but yeah, mwhudson has a fix for it already
[04:22] <seb128> kiko: "not yet" mean? I though browsing code on launchpad was working for ages
[04:22] <SteveA> mpt: you proposed the tag.  how about package-link ?
[04:22] <kiko> it will be rolled out
[04:22] <mpt> that works for me
[04:22] <SteveA> ok, done
[04:22] <seb128> kiko: OOPS-600D1677
[04:22] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/600D1677
[04:22] <kiko> mpt, I think it only oopses for the owner.
[04:22] <seb128> ^ it does that
[04:22] <SteveA> thanks everyone
[04:22] <mpt> kiko, what does?
[04:22] <mwhudson> it oopses for people who can upload
[04:22] <kiko> mpt, I confused you and me there. sorry
[04:22] <mpt> ok
[04:23] <mpt> by "that" I meant "package-link"
[04:23] <kiko> package-links is better
[04:23] <SteveA> why is a plural name better?
[04:23] <SteveA> it's longer than the singular
[04:23] <matsubara> seb128: that's bug 4761 which mwhudson fixed already and it's scheduled to be cherrypicked into production
[04:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 4761 in offlineimap "offlineimap: merge new debian version" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4761 - Assigned to '' (removed346507)
[04:24] <SteveA> I guess we have 'rosetta-imports'
[04:24] <mwhudson> matsubara: i really don't think you meant that bug :)
[04:24] <kiko> I guess package-link suggests it's one specific singular link
[04:24] <SteveA> anyway, the singular/plural can be discussed later
[04:24] <matsubara> seb128: bug 134223
[04:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134223 in launchpad-bazaar "viewing the index page of a bug you can upload to oopses" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134223 - Assigned to Michael Hudson (mwhudson)
[04:24] <kiko> where in fact it's a set of links
[04:24] <SteveA> I don't really care which it is
[04:24] <SteveA> moving on now...
[04:24] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:24] <mthaddon> 1.1.8 released
[04:24] <mthaddon> A number of fixes needed (icingrev and nightly.sh changes, for instance)
[04:24] <mthaddon> Need to rollout to importd (after the meeting)
[04:24] <mthaddon> PPA follow up once cprov returns
[04:25] <mthaddon> that's it from me unless there are any questions
[04:25] <SteveA> kiko: did you get the icingrev change in?
[04:25] <kiko> SteveA, it's in PQM's tummy
[04:25] <SteveA> awesome
[04:25] <SteveA> awesomerer
[04:26] <SteveA> thanks mthaddon 
[04:26] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:26] <stub> Nothing to report
[04:26] <seb128> matsubara: ok thanks
[04:26] <seb128> first time I try to import a package in launchpad, looks like I picked the right day ;)
[04:27] <bigjools> kiko: PQM's bowels would be more appropriate
[04:27] <SteveA> any questions for stub ?
[04:27] <jtv> bigjools: doesn't rhyme with "yummy"
[04:27] <kiko> not from me
[04:27] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:27] <Rinchen> Interesting work going on in this area still.  Anyone have any blockers?
[04:27] <stub> And talking about 80 minute bowel movements is just too disgusting even for us.
[04:28] <SteveA> (metaphorically speaking)
[04:28] <Rinchen> mthaddon and matsubara  I know about yours. And Kiko the staging one you pointed out
[04:28] <Rinchen> are you comfortable with the priority on your items?
[04:29] <mthaddon> that's a yes from me
[04:29] <mwhudson> i still have one about rsyncing importd oopses from macquarie to devpad
[04:29] <matsubara> yes
[04:29] <kiko> Rinchen, it's all good to me
[04:29] <Rinchen> mwhudson, right.
[04:29] <matsubara> yes, Rinchen 
[04:29] <Rinchen> ok, thanks. Back to you SteveA 
[04:30] <SteveA> thanks Rinchen once again
[04:30] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:30] <mrevell> I have three things to raise today. Today's main user-affecting issue was raised by mdke. With regard to PPA, he asks:
[04:30] <mrevell> "What is the position for packages which contain material which is distributed under licenses which aren't in [the opensource.org]  list but which are still free?"
[04:30] <mrevell> He continues: "Although the opensource.org website itself appears to be licensed under a Creative Commons (attribution) license, no Creative Commons licenses appear in the list, nor does the GFDL."
[04:30] <mrevell> The second issue is a reminder to all Launchpad users in attendance that, temporarily, bug searches no longer search in bug comments. Searching bug comments was causing an unacceptable number of timeouts but will return when the fix has been created.
[04:30] <mrevell> The final issue is another reminder to anyone using PPA: the beta is still in dogfood for the time being and we will move it to production Launchpad within the next few days. Although you may see some PPA-related UI in production Launchpad, please continue to use dogfood.
[04:31] <mrevell> Thanks SteveA.
[04:31] <jamesh> mrevell: are we talking about source code material or non-source code materiel?
[04:31] <mrevell> jamesh: In mdke's particular case, he's talking about Ubuntu documentation.
[04:32] <SteveA> mrevell: on the licence issue, what packages have GFDL or CC stuff that have given rise to this question?
[04:32] <mrevell> jamesh: Some of which is GPL, some GFDL and so on.
[04:32] <mrevell> SteveA: I believe mdke is looking at using PPA to create packages for the docs team.
[04:32] <SteveA> I think if something is good enough for the CC, it's good enough for us.  That's just, like, my opinion.
[04:32] <SteveA> kiko: what do you think?
[04:33] <SteveA> the CC as in the Community Council
[04:33] <jamesh> SteveA: a lot of GNU packages have GFDL documentation which would bar them from our current T.O.S.
[04:33] <SteveA> not the Creative Commons
[04:33] <kiko> I agree with SteveA 
[04:33] <kiko> so perhaps our TOS needs amending
[04:33] <SteveA> jamesh: I'm proposing amending the TOS to include GFDL if the Com Coun has approved GFDL stuff for inclusion in ubuntu
[04:33] <kiko> what SteveA said!
[04:33] <danilos> I'd agree on that one
[04:34] <mpt> SteveA, Ubuntu CC approval makes sense as long as PPAs are only for Ubuntu
[04:34] <SteveA> mrevell: so, the answer is, if you get a request to allow a licence that isn't in our TOS
[04:34] <SteveA> mrevell: then check whether the CC allows it in Ubuntu
[04:34] <BjornT> stub: re the second issue, did you see that i re-opened and assigned bug 70665 to you?
[04:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 70665 in malone "Allow searching in comments" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70665 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[04:34] <mrevell> SteveA: thank you
[04:34] <SteveA> mrevell: if so, then ask on the launchpad list for an addition to our TOS
[04:34] <elmo> GFDL is fine for Ubuntu
[04:34] <SteveA> (perhaps by filing a bug)
[04:34] <elmo> (FTR)
[04:35] <mrevell> thanks elmo
[04:35] <SteveA> FTW!
[04:35] <mrevell> :)
[04:35] <SteveA> elmo: what about Creative Commons (attribution) ?
[04:35] <jamesh> elmo: is there anything written up about this that we could reference in the PPA TOS?
[04:35] <stub> Bjorn: ack. No idea when I can look at it though.
[04:35] <jamesh> rather than maintaining our own rules
[04:35] <ubotu> New bug: #134070 in launchpad "OOPS registering a team with renewal period equals 0 (zero)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134070
[04:36] <Rinchen> SteveA, kiko - we still on in 1 hour with Mark?
[04:37] <Rinchen> w/c of course
[04:37] <SteveA> stub, Rinchen: please talk about what cycle we can plan 70665 in
[04:37] <kiko> dunno. are we?
[04:37] <Rinchen> SteveA, will do
[04:37] <SteveA> thanks mrevell !
[04:37] <kiko> SteveA, the problem with 70665 is that it requires either an upstream fix, or more research.
[04:37] <SteveA>  * 1k branch limits - barry
[04:38] <barry> so we've imposed a limit on the size of branches to make life manageable for reviewers
[04:38] <barry> it's a 2k limit despite the agenda title :)
[04:38] <danilos> is this about the on-list email you sent?
[04:38] <SteveA> kiko: if we at least target it to a release, and put aside some of stub's time to work on it in that release, then we'll be in a good posistion to either fix it, or bounce it to a future release
[04:38] <barry> danilos: yes
[04:38] <SteveA> kiko: this is a better position than "no idea"
[04:38] <kiko> SteveA, yeah, I agree with it not falling off the radar -- totally
[04:38] <barry> did anybody not read that message, or does anybody have any questions about it?
[04:39] <kiko> barry, I think that's a great idea. <wink>
[04:39] <barry> kiko: thought you might :)
[04:39] <Rinchen> I'm +1 for a 2k limit.
[04:39] <barry> okay?  well, if there's nothing else. back to you SteveA
[04:39] <barry> Rinchen: thanks!
[04:39] <SteveA> thanks barry 
[04:39] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:40] <sinzui> Answer Tracker: BLOCKED: no
[04:40] <barry> TEAM: mailing lists BLOCKED: no
[04:40] <matsubara> TEAM: infrastructure BLOCKED: no
[04:40] <BjornT> TEAM: bug tracker BLOCKED: no
[04:40] <salgado> TEAM: Registry BLOCKED: NO
[04:40] <jtv> TEAM: Translations, BLOCKED: no
[04:40] <SteveA> for the next cycle, let's do these by Launchpad teams
[04:40] <EdwinGrubbs> TEAM: Commercialization BLOCKED: no
[04:40] <SteveA> um, I mean, for next week
[04:40] <bigjools> TEAM: Soyuz BLOCKED: decision on Gutsy commercial upload pocket
[04:40] <mpt> TEAM: UI BLOCKED: Feedback from commercialization team about distribution permissions
[04:40] <ddaa> TEAM Code. BLOCKED: code-import db patch approval, machine for staging codehosting.
[04:40] <intellectronica> TEAM: Blueprint BLOCKED: No
[04:41] <SteveA> norsetto: very near the end, actually :-)
[04:41] <adeuring> TTeam HWDB: Blocked: NO
[04:42] <SteveA> ok
[04:42] <SteveA> we're all done
[04:42] <Rinchen> mpt,  you mean statik?
[04:42] <SteveA> thanks for being here, and keeping us moving along
[04:42] <mpt> sinzui, ddaa, adeuring: just btw, it saves me about 30 seconds if you follow the exact "TEAM: X BLOCKED: Y" format of the other teams :-)
[04:42] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[04:43] <mpt> Rinchen, I guess so
[04:43] <Rinchen> mpt,  ok, I'll chat with his team today
[04:43] <mpt> though I hadn't kept track of how many were in the team :-)
[04:43] <jtv> norsetto: see, if you'd just kept your eyes closed a few minutes longer, you could've saved yourself the embarrassment :)
[04:43] <EdwinGrubbs> mpt: what are distribution permissions?
[04:43] <sinzui> mpt: If I ever have a chance to do this again, I will follow the format.
[04:43] <mpt> thanks sinzui
[04:44] <mpt> EdwinGrubbs, see bug 32104
[04:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 32104 in launchpad "+edit and +launchpad should be merged" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32104 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
[04:44] <mrevell> matsubara: I'm going to grab a cup of tea, then do you have five minutes for me?
[04:44] <mpt> EdwinGrubbs, basically whether distribution registrars should be able to say that their distribution uses Launchpad for bugtracking etc
[04:45] <matsubara> mrevell: yes, I'll grab something to eat too. ping me when you're ready.
[04:45] <mrevell> cool
[04:45] <ubotu> New bug: #134063 in blueprint "OOPS registering sprint or meeting using date format DD-M-YYYY" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134063
[04:46] <mpt> thanks Rinchen 
[04:51] <bdmurray> Does the commentedbugs list included won't fix or invalid bugs?
[04:51] <Odd_Bloke> Hey guys, is there a quicker way to push a branch to LP than using 'bzr push'?
[04:53] <gmb> bdmurray: Do you mean the list of bugs on which you have commented.
[04:53] <gmb> ?
[04:53] <bdmurray> gmb: correct
[04:53] <gmb> bdmurray: Let me just check...
[04:55] <gmb> bdmurray: No, it won't, because those bugs are considered to be closed.
[04:56] <gmb> bdmurray: But you can do an advanced search for those bugs if you wish.
[04:56] <mpt> gmb, so this is probably new scope for bug 5977
[04:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 5977 in malone "Person Bugs pages seems to be incomplete" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/5977
[04:57] <gmb> mpt: Agreed.
[04:57] <bdmurray> gmb: okay, thanks I suspected as much.
[04:57] <gmb> bdmurray: np.
[04:57] <bdmurray> What is the e-mail command for adding a bug tag?
[04:58] <bdmurray> Is it just "tag my-new-tag" ?
[04:58] <mpt> bdmurray, there isn't one currently afaik
[04:58] <bdmurray> mpt: It was in today's release notes
[04:58] <matsubara> mpt: of course there is!
[04:58] <mpt> oh!
[04:59] <mpt> neat
[04:59] <matsubara> bug 58388
[04:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 58388 in malone "Implement a tag command in the email interface" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58388 - Assigned to Dave Murphy (schwuk)
[04:59] <schwuk> bdmurray: yes, that will add a new tag to a bug
[04:59] <bdmurray> It isn't documented yet - https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail
[05:00] <bdmurray> schwuk: can you subtract a tag too?
[05:00] <schwuk> bdmurray: yes
[05:00] <schwuk> tag -my-new-tag
[05:00] <bdmurray> schwuk: neat!
[05:00] <seb128> are new bugs coming from "Launchpad Bug Tracker" a bug or a change made on purpose?
[05:01] <matsubara> seb128: on purpose
[05:01] <seb128> hum, k
[05:01] <seb128> what is the rational?
[05:03] <mpt> seb128, iirc, because they represent changes that weren't made by the reporter (e.g. a bug being assigned to someone), so it wasn't reasonable to represent them as coming from the reporter
[05:03] <seb128> k
[05:04] <seb128> bug reassigned from an another package are in this case?
[05:04] <seb128> usually the description of the bug is coming from the submitter
[05:04] <seb128> he just didn't get the package right
[05:05] <ubotu> New bug: #134301 in rosetta "AttributeError: 'unicode' object has no attribute 'code'" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134301
[05:05] <mpt> seb128, not sure
[05:05] <mpt> allenap?
[05:05] <matsubara> thanks jtv 
[05:06] <allenap> mpt: hi
[05:06] <mpt> allenap, can you answer seb128's question?
[05:09] <allenap> mpt, seb128: Not sure on this one. I think BjornT was involved with these changes. BjornT?
[05:17] <BjornT> the notifications from 'Launchpad Bug Tracker' are the ones that say that you have been subscribed to a bug, which can mean either that you are actually subscribed to the bug, or that the bug was re-assigned to a package, of which you are a bug contact (and you weren't a bug contact of the the previous package)
[05:18] <BjornT> seb128: ^^^
[05:18] <seb128> BjornT: I find it annoying in the case it reassigned to the correct package
[05:18] <seb128> I like to know who submitted the bug
[05:18] <seb128> because I don't consider it the same way if that's a distro team guy or a regular contributor or somebody I don't know
[05:19] <seb128> would you consider a request for reassigned bugs to be displayed as coming from the bug submitter as valid?
[05:20] <BjornT> seb128: would it be enough to include the sumbmitter in the body of the notification?
[05:20] <seb128> yes
[05:21] <seb128> though I don't get the interest to add content
[05:21] <seb128> especially than you can see the From from the mails listing
[05:22] <seb128> thinking about it I like the From; better
[05:22] <seb128> you can filter on it quickly, etc
[05:23] <BjornT> seb128: ok, we could add it to the body of the notification at least. having it in the From field is quite tricky, since it's often confusing. we changed the From field for exactly this reason
[05:24] <seb128> I'm not sure how it's confusing to send the bug description as coming from the bug submitter
[05:25] <kiko> seb128, the problem is that the bug submitter is not actually causing /that/ email to be sent.
[05:26] <BjornT> seb128: well, quite a lot of people complained about it (for the reason kiko mentioned)
[05:26] <kiko> it's actually very confusing
[05:26] <seb128> so maybe a verbatim copy should not be sent to the bug contact then
[05:26] <seb128> you should rather send "bug nnnnn has been reassigned to your product"
[05:27] <seb128> because at the moment it looks like a new bug coming on your product from launchpad bug tracker
[05:29] <kiko> doesn't the message body say something?
[05:29] <seb128> "You have been subscribed to a public bug:" rather than "Public bug reported:" in the first line
[05:29] <seb128> it's very tricky to notice the difference
[05:29] <seb128> it really look like a new bug opened
[05:30] <kiko> the text could be changed
[05:30] <kiko> but will you read it?
[05:30] <seb128> well if you include the name of the submitter maybe
[05:30] <seb128> but I would really like better having the "From" having the submitter
[05:30] <seb128> so I can filter quickly
[05:31] <seb128> and look to my mailbox and know what mails I want to read (those coming from people I know for example)
[05:31] <Hobbsee> seb128: maybe they need a header for quality of the bug
[05:31] <seb128> Hobbsee: not really as good, you don't have those displayed in the mails list
[05:31] <seb128> you would either have to setup filter on the content
[05:32] <seb128> or to open every single bugs and that would not give you "by submitter" easy sorting
[05:32] <Hobbsee> seb128: no, launchpad should autodetect the quality of the bug, and close anything with a score of "crap" :P
[05:34] <Nafallo> "You sent a crappy bug. Please don't do that."
[05:34] <Nafallo> I can't imagine the reaction that would get ;-)
[05:34] <seb128> "if you can't figure the right component maybe you should not open a bug" ;)
[05:35] <Nafallo> LOL
[05:35] <Hobbsee> yeah :P
[05:35] <Hobbsee> seb128: it surprises me about apport, with people thinking they dont have to write everything, as it's all automated.
[05:43] <alex-weej> hi
[05:43] <alex-weej> on a bug entry page, there are packages listed under "affects"
[05:43] <alex-weej> and links to "also affects upstream" and "... distribution/package"
[05:44] <alex-weej> this terminology seems to be a little bit off with what some people expect; i think the old terminology might have been "tasks", implying that there is "something to do" for a specific package
[05:49] <mayeco> the ppa is working or not?
[05:49] <mayeco> is in live site or only in dogfood?
[05:57] <kiko> mayeco, on dogfood still -- we're setting up the production boxes still this week
[05:57] <kiko> but the code is all good
[05:57] <Nafallo> this week. kewl :-)
[05:57] <mayeco> kiko: thanks :D
[05:58] <mayeco> that thing is super kool!
[05:58] <kiko> it is indeed 
[05:58] <kiko> blog about it!
[05:58] <mayeco> :S
[06:15] <ubotu> New bug: #134309 in malone "External bug tracker for Mantis should be able to fetch status for individual bugs" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134309
[06:33] <Ek0nomik> Would anyone be able to help me sign the code of conduct?  I keep entering what was given to me in the *.asc file, but I get this error:
[06:33] <Ek0nomik> Please fix the problems below and try again.
[06:33] <Ek0nomik> (7, 9, 'No public key')
[06:33] <Ek0nomik> but, my key is already on the server:  http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C77D4B1&op=index
[06:36] <ubotu> New bug: #134312 in launchpad "Checkwatches script doesn't use correct DB user" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134312
[06:37] <kiko> Ek0nomik, hmmmm. could the syncing be broken again, elmo?
[06:38] <elmo> kiko: it's not, I just checked
[06:38] <elmo> that key is retrievable from the internal server
[06:38] <kiko> hmmm
[06:38] <kiko> thanks
[06:38] <kiko> Ek0nomik, what are you placing in the input box?
[06:38] <Ek0nomik> the whole contents of the *.asc file.
[06:39] <kiko> Ek0nomik, I mean in the GPG key upload
[06:39] <kiko> Ek0nomik, what's your launchpad homepage?
[06:39] <Ek0nomik> https://launchpad.net/~ek0nomik
[06:39] <kiko> Ek0nomik, are you sure you signed with that key?
[06:40] <Ek0nomik> Under Step 1. Register an OpenPGP key.
[06:40] <Ek0nomik> It appears you have already done this; the key 6C77D4B1 is registered on your account. You can skip to the next step if you are not intending on signing with a different key. 
[06:48] <matsubara> Ek0nomik: can you paste (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/) the signed code of conduct that you're pasting into LP?
[06:49] <Ek0nomik> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20/\
[06:49] <Ek0nomik> whoops.
[06:49] <Ek0nomik> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20/
[06:56] <Ek0nomik> any dice?
[07:00] <matsubara> Ek0nomik: you seem to have signed it with:  key ID 432EE881
[07:00] <Ek0nomik> wt..
[07:01] <Ek0nomik> how do I sign with the 6C77D4B1 key?
[07:05] <matsubara> Ek0nomik: $ gpg -u 6C77D4B1 --clearsign codeofconduct.txt
[07:13] <Ek0nomik> thanks matsubara.  :)
[07:30] <bdmurray> Where did the $pkgname source expandy go?
[07:30] <bdmurray> The one on the lefthand side?
[07:50] <ubotu> New bug: #54329 in ubuntu "Error when launcher target not found needs to be user-readable" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54329
[07:54] <norsetto> bdmurray: isn't that on the package name now? (where it used to be the status).
[07:56] <bdmurray> norsetto: the expandy would show you the latest version of the package which was handy to see if the bug reporter had the latest version
[07:57] <norsetto> bdmurray: yes, its a bit convoluted now, you have to go to overview
[07:58] <norsetto> bdmurray: and then you find the expandy on the left
[07:59] <bdmurray> norsetto: right and then you are "away" from the bug report that you were working on
[07:59] <norsetto> bdmurray: yep
[08:00] <norsetto> bdmurray: why not filing a bug report in launchpad asking for it to be back? it shouldn't be a big deal
[08:00] <bdmurray> norsetto: okay, I wasn't sure if it had just moved on me. :)
[08:01] <norsetto> bdmurray: hehe
[08:01] <norsetto> bdmurray: in the meantime you can use a terminal
[08:03] <bdmurray> norsetto: what do you mean?  Isn't any terminal command dependent on me running the same release as the bug report?
[08:03] <bdmurray> terminal command to check for a package version
[08:03] <norsetto> bdmurray: not necessarily, for instance you can use rmadison (or apt-cache)
[08:04] <norsetto> bdmurray: an example, try rmadison -u ubuntu <package-name> and see what it gives you
[08:06] <norsetto> rmadison is using a remote query; apt-cache is using the local cache (so the latter is quicker but needs you to keep the cache updated)
[08:06] <bdmurray> norsetto: right, I've used apt-cache before but not rmadison.  plus with apt-cache you have to manipulate your sources.list right?
[08:07] <norsetto> bdmurray: indeed
[08:08] <norsetto> bdmurray: I use rmadison when I need to check what version is where, and the advantage is also that you can check debian (not important for you I guess)
[08:08] <bdmurray> norsetto: I don't seem to have '-u' as an option
[08:09] <norsetto> bdmurray: are you on feisty?
[08:09] <bdmurray> norsetto: at the moment yes
[08:10] <norsetto> bdmurray: thats why then, IIRC its not yet implemented in the feisty version
[08:10] <gnomefreak> can PPA archives deal with more than one distro at a time? example upload gutsy packages and feisty packages to same PPA and use something like deb http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/mozillateam/ubuntu gutsy bleh and http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/mozillateam/ubuntu feisty bleh...
[08:11] <bdmurray> norsetto: right, doesn't seem so.  Thanks for the information regarding rmadison.
[08:11] <norsetto> bdmurray: np, too bad it doesn't help
[08:13] <bdmurray> norsetto: I've been using apt-cache madison and I can work around the functionality not being in the bug page anymore.  I just thought it was quite convenient to have it right there.
[08:25] <kiko> bdmurray, not having what right there?
[08:28] <bdmurray> kiko: the information expandy on the left hand side regarding the latest version of the source package
[08:28] <kiko> bdmurray, was that removed?
[08:29] <bdmurray> kiko: as far as I can tell yes
[08:29] <kiko> mpt, do you confirm?
[08:30] <mpt> kiko, yes, it's reported
[08:30] <mpt> I'll target it to 1.1.9
[08:30] <kiko> thanks.
[08:30] <kiko> bdmurray, sorry! :)
[08:30] <bdmurray> mpt: what bug number?
[08:31] <bdmurray> I just want to subscribe
[08:32] <mpt> I don't remember
[08:44] <Amaranth> gnomefreak: As I accidentally found out, yes
[08:44] <gnomefreak> cool ty Amaranth :)
[08:55] <LaserJock> so PPA is still only available for Beta Testers and still only on dogfood?
[08:55] <kiko> LaserJock, we're moving it, but there's a server issue or two that need to be cleared up, should be all done by early next week
[08:56] <kiko> the builders and build scheduler
[08:56] <kiko> need movin'
[08:56] <mpt> bdmurray, bug 134220
[08:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134220 in malone "the new layout has no informations about the current version" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134220
[08:57] <LaserJock> kiko: ok, so next week it should go live on main LP and will anybody be able to use it or just Beta Testers?
[08:57] <bdmurray> mpt: thanks
[09:00] <mpt> bdmurray, what would you think about including the version number of the latest version in the table inside the expandable section?
[09:00] <mpt> e.g.
[09:00] <mpt> Affecting: firefox (Ubuntu)
[09:00] <mpt> Latest version: 2.0.3-ubuntuwotsit
[09:01] <mpt> Filed here by: B D Murray
[09:01] <mpt> etc
[09:02] <bdmurray> mpt: personally I think that chews uses too much space to glean that little bit of information
[09:02] <bdmurray> because you might not know the submitters package version in the first comment
[09:03] <bdmurray> so would have to scroll down even more to find it
[09:03] <mpt> scroll down?
[09:03] <mpt> No, I mean the expandable section in the "Affects" table
[09:04] <mpt> that already has a table with "Affecting:", "Filed here by:", and "When:" rows
[09:05] <bdmurray> Right but when you expand that it shifts down all comments right?
[09:05] <mpt> For as long as you have it open, yes
[09:05] <bdmurray> because you have the comment on this change box
[09:05] <norsetto> anyone here that can migrate my pgp keys to my dogfood account?
[09:05] <mpt> Ah, so you want to be able to see the reporter's version, and the latest version, simultaneously
[09:05] <mpt> ok
[09:06] <seb128> mpt: right, to know if the user is uptodate
[09:06] <bdmurray> mpt: ideally yes. the location isn't that important.
[09:06] <mpt> So that would work if we didn't have so much navigation stuff at the top of the page
[09:06] <mpt> and if we had only one comment field per bug report
[09:07] <mpt> because then you *would* be able to see both of them simultaneously
[09:07] <mpt> but so long as we don't, it probably needs to be a box down the side instead.
[09:12] <Kmos> kiko: can you delete the zzz ones now? https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers
[09:14] <kiko> Kmos, not yet -- we don't yet support dupes
[09:15] <kiko> Kmos, I want to promote you to official bugtracker gardener :)
[09:18] <Kmos> kiko: it will be a pleasure for me :)
[09:19] <Kmos> kiko: so only 1.1.9 will have support for that?
[09:19] <kiko> Kmos, I just need to get the privileges sorted out and a process for you
[09:19] <kiko> Kmos, I'm HOPING BjornT will have pity on us and do it for 1.1.9 :)
[09:19] <Kmos> that's nice
[09:19] <Kmos> kiko: i'm not even an ubuntu member.. maybe they won't accept it
[09:20] <kiko> this isn't anything to do with ubuntu
[09:20] <Kmos> :)
[09:20] <ubotu> New bug: #134345 in launchpad "Link to Terms of Service on 'Activate Personal Package Archive' goes to a nonexistant wiki page." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134345
[09:20] <Kmos> kiko: yeah, LP is one thing, ubuntu is another
[09:20] <Kmos> =)
[09:20] <kiko> oh good grief
[09:21] <mpt> what
[09:22] <mpt> terms of service on a wiki?
[09:22] <mpt> "You hereby agree to KILROY WAS HERE"
[09:24] <kiko> yes
[09:28] <seb128> kiko: is there a way to workaround the "registering a bzr branch requires an upstream product with the same name"?
[09:28] <kiko> seb128, well, you could upload something as +junk
[09:28] <seb128> I don't want to do that ;)
[09:28] <seb128> I want to maintain desktop packages in bzr
[09:28] <seb128> but gnome-vfs is name gnome-vfs2 for example
[09:28] <seb128> or gtk+ gtk+2.0
[09:29] <seb128> or epiphany epiphany-browser
[09:30] <kiko> seb128, and why is using a different name a problem?
[09:30] <seb128> different name than what?
[09:31] <kiko> why is the name of the branch important, IOW?
[09:31] <seb128> I would like the branch having the same name than the package for obvious reasons
[09:31] <seb128> well, because otherwise it's going to be complicated for users
[09:31] <seb128> and for scripting
[09:31] <seb128> it's much easier if you can use apt-get and bzr on the same name
[09:32] <seb128> and not to know that the gtk+2.0 package is named gtk+ in launchpad
[09:32] <LaserJock> yep, that's a tough one especially
[09:33] <seb128> s/and not/and don't need/
[09:33] <seb128> is there any reason to require an upstream product to add a packaging branch?
[09:34] <kiko> seb128, it's just that it's not currently set up.
[09:35] <kiko> that way.
[09:35] <seb128> is that likely to change any time soon?
[09:36] <kiko> ddaa, wanna context switch to this discussion?
[09:36] <kiko> seb128, unlikely to be /real/ soon, to be honest, but I think we need to sort this out
[09:37] <seb128> kiko: the easy workaround would be to use one packaging branch for the team
[09:37] <kiko> ddaa, seb128 wants to upload branches for packages, irrespective of history. 
[09:37] <seb128> register a random product
[09:37] <seb128> and use a directory by package in the branch
[09:38] <ddaa> so...
[09:38] <ddaa> ideally
[09:38] <ddaa> I think it should be possible to have package branches in the way we have product branches.
[09:38] <ddaa> but nobody has figured out how it should look like, even less scheduled time to do it.
[09:39] <_gpg_> hello
[09:39] <ddaa> I think registering an ubuntu-packaging or debian-packaging product is a reasonably to deal with the issue now.
[09:39] <ddaa> It's connected to another current issue.
[09:40] <kiko> ddaa, it's easy to migrate from that to something else later, right?
[09:40] <ddaa> Which is "where to put the productseries for a svn import of a packaging branch from debian svn?"
[09:40] <seb128> in this case that would be a ubuntu-desktop product
[09:40] <ddaa> ATM, people seem to have decided to create a "debian" productseries in the product.
[09:40] <ddaa> Which I think is borken.
[09:40] <_gpg_> i would linke to know where ca n i find about launchpad licence, it it would be open source etc, can any one help me please ?
[09:41] <ddaa> I think it would be better to have a debian-packaging product, and have series named after the package there.
[09:41] <seb128> "series" = "branches"?
[09:41] <ddaa> kiko: anything which is consistent is reasonably easy to migrate, I guess.
[09:41] <ddaa> seb128: no productseries, like "trunk"
[09:41] <mpt> _gpg_, <https://launchpad.net/faq>, 2/3 of the way down the page
[09:41] <ddaa> the object you need to get a code import at the moment.
[09:42] <seb128> ok
[09:42] <ddaa> One of my worries if that if we start to get "debian" series all over the place, users will see it and duplicate the pattern.
[09:42] <_gpg_> mpt: ty
[09:42] <seb128> I don't expect launchpad changing really quickly so we will likely workaround for now by creating a product for the team and using a directory by package there
[09:43] <ddaa> and we'll have a mess in no time that we won't be able to deal with whenever we want to transition to something else.
[09:43] <seb128> ddaa, kiko: thanks
[09:43] <ddaa> seb128: can you keep me posted of what comes out?
[09:43] <seb128> ddaa, kiko: should I raise the issue on some mailing-list?
[09:43] <ddaa> seb128: some ubuntu-devels list would be good start, as other ubuntu ppl are asking the same question.
[09:44] <ddaa> I really just want you guys to adopt a policy that is consistent and you are happy with.
[09:44] <seb128> well, ubuntu lists will not make a difference
[09:44] <ddaa> Then inform the Launchpad ML of what you decided.
[09:44] <seb128> I'll say "the requirements to have a product with the same name as the package sucks" and the distro people will likely agree
[09:45] <seb128> I don't know how launchpad internals are organized
[09:45] <seb128> but I would happy to just not have the upstream product obligation
[09:45] <seb128> like we have an team maintaining packages
[09:46] <seb128> I would like to be able to add a branch for every package there
[09:46] <ddaa> seb128: really, the Launchpad model has no provision for those "packaging branches".
[09:46] <seb128> does it need to fit in some model?
[09:46] <seb128> why can't a team just have random bzr branches?
[09:46] <ddaa> because sabdfl said teams shall not have +junk branches.
[09:47] <seb128> well, that's not junk
[09:47] <seb128> that's an ubuntu package
[09:47] <ddaa> What namespace would you use for those branches then?
[09:47] <seb128> I would be happy to "the branch name must be the one of a distro package"
[09:48] <ddaa> that conflicts with our current branch namespace
[09:48] <ddaa> and which distro?
[09:48] <ddaa> which distrorelease?
[09:48] <ddaa> etc.
[09:48] <ddaa> You probably want different branches for each distro release.
[09:48] <seb128> that's not going to be easy
[09:48] <seb128> maybe we should just ask to be honest on the alioth svn ;)
[09:49] <seb128> s/honest/hosted
[09:49] <ddaa> Yes, that's why nobody has decided how it should look like yet.
[09:49] <ddaa> seb128: sure, if you're happy with that. Then I want you guys to agree on a policy for dummy productseries you create to request bzr imports.
[09:50] <seb128> that discussion would not be right placed on the ubuntu side because most of us don't know about launchpad requirements, namespaces, structure, etc
[09:50] <ddaa> ATM, we're going to have ~vcs-imports/nspr/debian
[09:51] <ddaa> (which sucks IMO)
[09:51] <ddaa> seb128: then ask on the Launchpad ML
[09:51] <seb128> mdz: around?
[09:51] <ddaa> but when this sort of trans-project discussion occurs, it tends to end in mid-air
[09:51] <seb128> mdz: do you know if there is any reflection or work in progress going on on "being able to create branches for ubuntu packages on launchpad"?
[09:52] <ddaa> I have the impression it's because each side expects the other to know how things should look like.
[09:52] <seb128> well, I know what I need
[09:52] <seb128> I need to be able to create random bzr branches for a team
[09:53] <ddaa> In which way would team-owned +junk branches be inadequate?
[09:53] <seb128> I'm not sure I understand what +junk mean
[09:53] <ddaa> it means "no associated product"
[09:53] <seb128> it's not junk, it's nice packaging ;)
[09:54] <LaserJock> but they aren't junk
[09:54] <ddaa> it's called like that to encourage ppl to put branches in the right product.
[09:54] <LaserJock> I think most people think +junk == throw away
[09:54] <seb128> well, call them "junk" if you want
[09:54] <seb128> I can workaround it by creating random upstream product for every package I want to add
[09:55] <seb128> but that's ugly, extra work, and doesn't make things nicer for anybody
[09:55] <seb128> gnome-vfs2 has an upstream product, it's just named gnome-vfs
[09:55] <ddaa> I think that would be what sabdfl would like.
[09:55] <ddaa> mh
[09:55] <kiko> ddaa, what do you mean?
[09:56] <ddaa> "creating random upstream product for every package I want to add"
[09:56] <ddaa> seb128: ask fabbione about .info files :)
[09:56] <fabbione> DIE DIE DIE
[09:56] <ddaa> or Keybuk
[09:56] <ddaa> right
[09:56] <seb128> ddaa: I think I helped fabbione with them when I started at Canonical ;)
[09:57] <fabbione> we all share the same feeling about info files
[09:57] <fabbione> DIE DIE DIE DIE
[09:57] <ddaa> So, the modern equivalent is "create a project in Launchpad"
[09:57] <ddaa> I believe the motivation for them has not gone away.
[09:57] <seb128> well, I don't want to have to create a product to forward a bug or put a package in bzr
[09:57] <ddaa> Just that the dumb idea of doing them in bulk before they are needed has gone away.
[09:57] <seb128> that's just to much work
[09:58] <seb128> and there is some package where is there is no proper upstream
[09:58] <ddaa> seb128: I agree with you
[09:58] <seb128> like no website, etc
[09:58] <ddaa> I cannot help you with that.
[09:58] <ddaa> Bring that to mdz, and have him bring that to sabdfl.
[09:58] <seb128> will do that
[09:58] <LaserJock> seb128: what about native packages?
[09:58] <seb128> thanks for replying to my questions
[09:59] <ddaa> seb128: you're welcome.
[09:59] <ddaa> LaserJock: they need a project too.
[09:59] <LaserJock> yikes
[09:59] <ddaa> it's not because upstream is a distro that it should not be modelled as a project in Launchpad.
[10:00] <ddaa> Not saying it's good.
[10:00] <ddaa> Saying that's the way Launchpad thinks.
[10:01] <LaserJock> it sounds to me as if projects could be in danger of becoming so ubiquitous that they end up being useless
[10:01] <ddaa> kiko: that's for you to answer :)
[10:01] <ddaa> discussion is moving out of my dept quiclky
[10:02] <LaserJock> I mean, if we have gnome-vfs and gnome-vfs2 projects and they're really the same thing
[10:02] <ddaa> there should not be duplicates
[10:03] <LaserJock> but how can you determine that
[10:03] <ddaa> eyeballs
[10:03] <LaserJock> but already seb128 has illustrated how it could easily become duplicated
[10:03] <ddaa> duplication is the wrong solution, I am sure of that
[10:04] <ddaa> no idea what the right solution is
[10:04] <ddaa> One upstream project (even if upstream is a distro) == one project in Launchpad.
[10:04] <ddaa> We could have branches named like
[10:05] <LaserJock> ok, but you're tying package names to project names
[10:05] <ddaa> ~owner/distro/release/srcpkg/name
[10:06] <ddaa> LaserJock: we are supposed to have a links between project series and source packages.
[10:06] <ddaa> They are a badly unloved part of Launchpad ATM.
[10:06] <ddaa> Nothing tying package and project names.
[10:06] <ddaa> Just devels dislike for inconsistent naming.
[10:07] <ddaa> The inconsistent naming is what needs fixing.
[10:07] <LaserJock> I don't think it's inconsistent naming really
[10:07] <LaserJock> if we have gnome-vfs as a project
[10:07] <mpt> ( Report as inappropriate )
[10:07] <mpt> Why is this project inapproprate?
[10:07] <ddaa> spam
[10:07] <mpt> ( ) It does not appear to be software
[10:08] <LaserJock> becuase the package name is gnome-vfs2
[10:08] <mpt> ( ) It seems to exist primarily for spam purposes
[10:08] <mpt> ( ) It is someone wanting an Ubuntu CD
[10:08] <mpt> ( ) It is a duplicate of another project
[10:08] <mpt>     Which other project? [              ] 
[10:08] <ddaa> is that existing UI?
[10:09] <mpt> no
[10:09] <mpt> but it should be ;-)
[10:09] <ddaa> yes please
[10:09] <ddaa> that does not address the problem LaserJock and seb128 are talking about, but it would help placate people trying to solve it the wrong way.
[10:09] <mpt> yes
[10:10] <mpt> I have a vague idea about how to solve LaserJock's/seb128's problem
[10:10] <mpt> but it requires existing thorough project-package links
[10:10] <ddaa> go on, I'll check the scrollback
[10:11] <ddaa> well
[10:11] <mpt> which we don't have
[10:11] <mpt> (which was partly the motivation for the QA that led to my proposing the tag this morning)
[10:11] <mpt> The vague idea is
[10:12] <mpt> from a project's page, say "I want to package this project"
[10:12] <mpt> Launchpad says "for what distribution?", and you say "Fooix"
[10:13] <mpt> And Launchpad says "ah, so you'll want to call the package X, because that's the name of this project's packages in Fooix".
[10:16] <ddaa> that's not adressing the right problem
[10:16] <ddaa> seb128 is unhappy because the Ubuntu source package names do not match upstream project names.
[10:16] <mpt> But isn't that a problem regardless of whether PPAs exist?
[10:16] <ddaa> and he wants the packaging branches to be named consistently after corresponding source packages.
[10:17] <ddaa> AIUI it has nothing to do with PPA
[10:17] <ddaa> it's more a Foobuntu kind of problem.
[10:17] <mpt> ah
[10:18] <mpt> so for "package" above read "branch"
[10:18] <ddaa> riht
[10:18] <ddaa> but that still does not address the problem
[10:18] <ddaa> because the branch URL contains the uptsream project name
[10:19] <ddaa> and anyway, it's unclear whether packaging branches belong in upstream projects at all.
[10:19] <mpt> Why does the branch URL contain the upstream project name?
[10:19] <ddaa> Because that's how we designed it.
[10:20] <ddaa> ~owner/project/name
[10:20] <mpt> Why?
[10:20] <mpt> Could you have ~owner/project and ~owner/name coexisting?
[10:20] <ddaa> That would be problematic.
[10:20] <mpt> Like /distribution and /project do?
[10:20] <ddaa> I do not think that would be impossible, actually I think maybe we should do it.
[10:20] <ddaa> thumper disagrees with me on this.
[10:21] <ddaa> he thinks the current naming is fine and consistent
[10:21] <ddaa> btw
[10:21] <LaserJock> but what if you *do* want /project/name ?
[10:21] <ddaa> we do have sort of ~owner/name in addition to ~owner/product/name
[10:21] <mpt> code.launchpad.net/~owner/project could still list all owner's branches of project
[10:21] <ddaa> except it is spelled ~owner/+junk/name
[10:21] <mpt> Just those URLs wouldn't have project in them any more
[10:22] <ddaa> hu?
[10:22] <ddaa> not making sense
[10:22] <ddaa> I understood you as ~owner/name was a branch
[10:22] <mpt> yes
[10:22] <ddaa> so it would show a branch, not a list of branches
[10:22] <mpt> yes
[10:22] <mpt> but ~owner/project would be a list of owner's branches for that project
[10:23] <ddaa> oh right
[10:23] <ddaa> I agree with you
[10:23] <ddaa> about making +junk disappear
[10:23] <ddaa> you need to convince thumper
[10:23] <ddaa> and sabdfl to allow those branches to be team-owned
[10:24] <mpt> I don't know what teams have to do with this issue
[10:24] <mpt> (which is not the same as "I don't think teams have anything to do with this issue" -- honestly, I don't know how teams work w.r.t. branches)
[10:24] <ddaa> we almost had to do a sit-in to get +junk branches out of sabdfl in the first place
[10:25] <ddaa> what they have to do:
[10:25] <ddaa> "Team shall not have +junk branches"
[10:25] <ddaa> we have an open bug about closing a couple of place where we still allow this to happen.
[10:25] <ddaa> The reason is "When you need a team to work on a branch, you really need a project."
[10:26] <LaserJock> that seems quite irrational to me
[10:26] <ddaa> LaserJock: that what the boss says.
[10:26] <LaserJock> but I'm just a lackey ;-)
[10:26] <ddaa> I'm just being a diligent engineer.
[10:26] <LaserJock> again, it seems to me that that leads to junk projects being made instead of junk branches
[10:27] <ddaa> that's the motivation for +junk branches in the first place
[10:27] <ddaa> stop people from putting branches that have no project in the wrong place, or from creating pointless project.
[10:27] <ddaa> by giving them an easier path
[10:27] <LaserJock> right, but he's forcing teams to act differently than individuals
[10:28] <LaserJock> and tying them to projects
[10:28] <ddaa> actually, if that was only up to the boss, there would not be +junk branch to start with.
[10:28] <ddaa> it's the engineers who insisted on it.
[10:28] <LaserJock> thank goodness
[10:28] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:28] <mpt> ddaa, not everything is a grand battle
[10:28] <ddaa> well
[10:29] <ddaa> that one episode was
[10:29] <ddaa> "do not want" "do want" "do not want" "okay, let's call them junk so people won't like them" "okay we've got a compromise"
[10:30] <ddaa> I think I should stop this discussion now.
[10:31] <ddaa> And go for dinner.
[10:31] <mpt> Yes.
[10:35] <norsetto> anyone here that can migrate my pgp keys to my dogfood account?
[10:40] <ubotu> New bug: #134362 in launchpad-answers "Email from any user should reopen an expired question" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134362
[10:46] <thumper> mpt: the branch naming scheme is to reduce naming clashes
[10:46] <thumper> mpt: there use to be a +branch in there
[10:47] <thumper> mpt: which got removed as it served no useful purpose
[10:47] <thumper> mpt: however if you want branches and projects to share a namespace then there is a problem
[10:47] <thumper> mpt: there will be many more branches than projects
[10:47] <thumper> mpt: and what happens if I have a branch called "foo"
[10:47] <thumper> mpt: and later, someone registers a project called "foo"
[10:48] <thumper> mpt: should the project name be disallowed due to someone somewhere having a branch called "foo"
[10:48] <thumper> mpt: and if the project was allowed, how then to traverse to the branch?
[10:48] <thumper> mpt: this is why I think we need the current scheme
[10:51] <ddaa> thumper: it's not a real problem
[10:51] <thumper> ddaa: oh? why?
[10:51] <ddaa> it's only a problem when the user that has that branch called "foo" wants to create a branch in the project "foo"
[10:52] <ddaa> So it's entirely user-local. It's not a case of individual users polluting a global namespace.
[10:52] <ddaa> thumper: see what I mean?
[10:52] <thumper> hmm
[10:52] <thumper> yes
[10:52] <thumper> I see what you mean
[10:52] <ddaa> Already had that in mind the last time we discussed it.
[10:53] <ddaa> I thought you realized that too.
[10:53] <ddaa> When things get tricky
[10:53] <ddaa> is when a project is renamed
[10:54] <thumper> ok, it could be done, but what is the driving advantage?  The removal of +junk?
[10:54] <ddaa> Yes.
[10:55] <thumper> how then would a pushed branch know its project?
[10:55] <thumper> bzr push bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~me/foo ?
[10:55] <ddaa> if foo is a project, that fails
[10:55] <thumper> but if it isn't?
[10:55] <ddaa> if foo is not a project that creates a branch with name=foo, project=None.
[10:55] <thumper> that's crack
[10:55] <ddaa> That the logical conclusion.
[10:56] <thumper> another reason why I don't like it
[10:56] <seb128> why is a project required anyway?
[10:56] <seb128> why can't somebody or a team store random code there?
[10:56] <ddaa> to make it easier to find related branches
[10:57] <thumper> ddaa: it becomes a much bigger problem when thinking of shared repos
[10:57] <thumper> initial push
[10:57] <thumper> et al
[10:57] <ddaa> thumper: I am starting to believe that shared repos is a much bigger problem than you think.
[10:58] <ddaa> thumper: not a discussion to have now
[10:58] <ddaa> thumper: we need to understand better how shared repos will work
[10:58] <ddaa> I have a hunch that we're not going to escape the need for an explicit SharedRepo object in our model.
[10:58] <thumper> while I think it is feasible, it is a not right now
[10:59] <ddaa> Then things like that become less problematic.
[10:59] <thumper> ddaa: there are much more interesting things to implement that redesigning how the branch traversal works
[10:59] <thumper> ddaa: I don't want to spend too much time right now trying to address it
[10:59] <ddaa> thumper: the reason we got there was that seb128 was asking for it.
[11:00] <thumper> sure
[11:00] <ddaa> rather insistently.
[11:00] <thumper> seb128: feasible but not now
[11:00] <thumper> :)
[11:01] <ddaa> Good night.
[11:10] <seb128> thumper: well, which means launchpad code is not usable now for Ubuntu packaging 
[11:11] <thumper> seb128: there are plans afoot to address packing, but it is a work in progress
[11:12] <ianm_> how does one get a new project into launchpad?
[11:12] <seb128> can I read about those plans somewhere?
[11:12] <kiko> thumper, hopefully it's not going to take too long, though, because seb128's success is related to bzr's success
[11:12] <kiko> ianm_, launchpad.net/projects/+new
[11:12] <ianm_> seems that should be a big button on the home page no?
[11:12] <kiko> ianm_, what project are you interested in creating?
[11:12] <kiko> ianm_, there /is/ a big button there -- Register. :)
[11:13] <ianm_> is that for projects?  I thought it was for accounts and I'm already registered
[11:14] <Seveas> kiko, can I ask you some questions about translations?
[11:14] <thumper> seb128: not just yet
[11:14] <kiko> Seveas, you can, and I might even answer them. :)
[11:14] <kiko> ianm_, it's for projects. good point.
[11:14] <Seveas> kiko, excellent :)
[11:15] <Seveas> kiko, what's the average waiting time for a translation import? And do all .po files have to be checked, also ones that I upload in eg. a month?
[11:16] <kiko> Seveas, the time should go down dramatically now that we have per-product queues.
[11:16] <kiko> Seveas, it shouldn't be more than 24h on average
[11:16] <kiko> Seveas, only the first po file upload is checked, I believe -- subsequent ones aren't.
[11:17] <Seveas> mine's 26h now ;)
[11:17] <Seveas> are .po files checked even if a .pot is there?
[11:17] <kiko> I think it depends if the path is inferrable or not.
[11:17] <kiko> the best person to answer would be carlos or danilo tomorrow morning
[11:17] <Seveas> ok
[11:18] <Seveas> thanks for the answers!
[11:19] <kiko> Seveas, you're welcome. please let me know tomorrow if you still need better answers.
[11:19] <ianm_> kiko: can I use launchpad for version control?  right now it's in some random SVN hosted by a friend
[11:22] <ianm_> kiko: nm I'm FAQing around
[11:22] <kiko> ianm_, sure you can -- use bzr!
[11:26] <ianm_> is the link for the second FAQ correct?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/faq
[11:26] <ianm_> it says "To find out how ..." but it links to a list of bugs
[11:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:30] <kiko> mpt awakes!
[11:30] <kiko> mpt, can you check the faq issue above?
[11:32] <ianm_> weird, so editing a project has a few extra options over creating it?  (did I miss the 'Bugs are tracked:' section before??)
[11:33] <ianm_> do I need an admin to import from SVN or can I do it myself?
[11:34] <mpt> kiko, that's pre-1.0 bong
[11:35] <kiko> mpt, can we fix it? :-(
[11:35] <mpt> yep
[11:35] <kiko> ianm_, there are a lot of options you can edit after creating -- you're welcome to explore.
[11:35] <mpt> launchpad.net/bazaar -> code.launchpad.net
[11:35] <kiko> ianm_, you can register the import location for your trunk series and we'll get it imported
[11:35] <mpt> This is an example of developers treating the FAQ as a junk drawer

[11:37] <kiko> thanks matsubara 
[11:38] <matsubara> kiko: np
[11:39] <kiko> mpt, do the filenames @@/locked pagerror.gif and refresh.gif ring a bell?
[11:40] <mpt>  /@@/locked does, the others don't
[11:40] <kiko> mpt, it's a 404.
[11:40] <kiko> is it an old page?
[11:40] <mpt> Yes, I thought I removed all occurrences of it
[11:41] <mpt> No, "/@@/" means "the image called"
[11:41] <kiko> it might just be old links
[11:41] <mpt> grep -r, why have you forsaken me
[11:41] <mpt> It would be odd for people to link to the icon specifically
[11:42] <mpt> unless they're hotlinking it from some other site
[11:42] <kiko> mpt, I think the issue is cached CSS -- that could be it, right?
[11:42] <kiko> look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2007-08-23/A1175 for instance.
[11:43] <kiko> hah
[11:43] <kiko> mpt, http://webhost.math.rochester.edu/webworkdocs/discuss/msgReader$3895
[11:43] <ianm_> so does launchpad use blueprints INSTEAD OF bugs of type "feature request" ?
[11:44] <mpt> kiko, the page listed as HTTP_REFERER in that page does not use that icon
[11:44] <kiko> mpt, I know
[11:44] <kiko> mpt, could it be CSS-referred?
[11:44] <kiko> ianm_, it depends. for larger changes where you think a document is a good way of expressing and discussing the change, a blueprint is a good idea.
[11:44] <kiko> ianm_, the truth is that the line between feature and bug is somewhat tenuous
[11:45] <mpt> kiko, it's not mentioned in the style sheet either.
[11:45] <kiko> mpt, could be a cached CSS file, then.
[11:45] <kiko> thanks.
[11:45] <kiko> gmb!
[11:45] <mpt> isn't CSS caching solved yet?
[11:45] <mpt> yes it is
[11:46] <mpt> @import url(https://launchpad.net/+icing/rev118/+style-slimmer.css)
[11:46] <ubotu> New bug: #134372 in launchpad-bazaar "Bazaar hosting FAQ links to completely the wrong place" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134372
[11:46] <bdmurray> What was the procedure for bug spam?
[11:46] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/107874
[11:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107874 in rhythmbox "Can't add songs to librarey" [Low,Invalid]   - Assigned to Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs)
[11:46] <gmb> kiko!
[11:47] <kiko> mpt, yeah, but it wasn't earlier today, so that might be it. I landed the definitive fix earlier today, btw.
[11:47] <mpt> kiko, so I don't see how it could have been cached either. Unless it was something weird like a Web archive saved with the HTML+CSS but without the images.
[11:47] <mpt> ah
[11:47] <mpt> ok
[11:47] <kiko> gmb, how's it going? stopping by to see the flames? :)
[11:47] <kiko> gmb, did we fix the issue with trac watches that was uncovered this week?
[11:47] <mpt> kiko, The Wayback Machine might cause errors of that sort, if people were trying to see what a bug report looked like before it was marked private :-)
[11:47] <kiko> yeah
[11:47] <kiko> good point
[11:47] <mpt> or the Google Cache, more realistically
[11:47] <kiko> but not 200+ 404s :)
[11:48] <gmb> kiko: This is the part where you tell me you're joking or referring to something I just don't get in my sleep-deprived state, right?
[11:48] <kiko> gmb, I'm not joking but ask me about it tomorrow :)
[11:48] <kiko> no begging!
[11:49] <mpt> bdmurray, first "ask" a "question" at <https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad>
[11:49] <mpt> reporting the comment
[11:49] <gmb> kiko: Okay, I will... 
[11:50] <mpt> bdmurray, then, nag the Launchpad developers to implement a "Report as inappropriate" function for bug comments :-)
[11:50] <mpt> (cf. bug 1734)
[11:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1734 in malone "Need ability to mark bug comments as obsolete" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734
[11:51] <bdmurray> mpt: hmm, that seems like a lot of work
[11:52] <mpt> bdmurray, yes, we have some work to do to handle that better
[12:08] <Rinchen> I can just picture it now. Bug comment rating.  *sigh*
[12:09] <Rinchen> barry, ^^
[12:09] <Rinchen> :-)
[12:10] <barry> Rinchen: hah
[12:19] <ianm_> kiko: so I put in the current SVN URL.  is it just a matter of time now or do I need to do anything else?
[12:37] <kiko> ianm_, just a matter of time. what's the project's URL?
[12:37] <ianm_> kiko: http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/luz I guess
[12:38] <ianm_> kiko: I plan to do everything I can in launchpad
[12:38] <kiko> ianm_, I mean the project in launchpad?
[12:40] <ianm_> kiko: oh sorry, that would be https://launchpad.net/luz/