[04:23] <bspencer> Mithrandir, how do we get a new blueprint on launchpad?
[04:24] <bspencer> Mithrandir, we wanted to make a new "mobile-chat" blueprint
[07:48] <Mithrandir> bspencer: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu -> register blueprint.
[09:45] <bspencer> Mithrandir, thanks
[09:45] <bspencer> when I went to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile  there was no such link
[09:48] <Mithrandir> bspencer: yeah, it's a bit confusing.
[10:48] <amitk_> Mithrandir: what is the difference between the fsets "crownbeach full-mobil" and "moblin crownbeach full-mobile"?
[11:54] <Mithrandir> amitk_: you have to read the definitions of them.
[03:44] <amitk_> agoliveira: know how to get to BIOS on the samsung if I don't have a USB keyboard handy?
[03:45] <agoliveira> amitk_: Hi Amit. Yes, you can hold the R "mouse" button on the right
[03:48] <amitk_> agoliveira: does your speaker make a sound like it's a popcorn maker?
[03:49] <agoliveira> No. Actually, now that you mention, I don't recall to hear anything from it but I didn't activelly tested.
[03:49] <mjg59> Ok. How the hell do I generate a working initramfs on the installed system?
[05:57] <Mithrandir> good morning, everybody.
[05:57] <Mithrandir> mjg59,amitk_,agoliveira: all of you around for the meeting?
[05:57] <mjg59> Yes
[05:57] <agoliveira> yep
[05:57] <amitk_> yes
[05:57] <rustyl> morning
[05:57] <Mithrandir> rustyl: care to round up bob and mauri and whoever else from your side is attending?
[05:58] <rustyl> there's bob
[05:58] <rustyl> and Carl is on the way
[05:58] <HappyCamp> I'm here for the meeting
[05:59] <bspencer> morning y'all
[05:59] <HappyCamp> Mauri will not be attending today.  She has an all day meeting.
[05:59] <Mithrandir> oh, ok.
[05:59] <rustyl> Mithrandir, i'm not sure if Mauri will be able to make it.  She is in an all day meeting today (but she might sneak in)
[05:59] <kwwii> evening
[06:00] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you should learn to eat during other meetings. :-)
[06:00] <Mithrandir> ok, are we missing anybody?
[06:00] <amitk_> all day meetings... what fun she has!
[06:01] <Mithrandir> bspencer: before the meeting starts, I'd like to shame you for failing to post status reports to the mailing list.
[06:01] <Mithrandir> please make sure to do so next week?
[06:01] <bspencer> k
[06:01] <Mithrandir> let's start then
[06:01] <Mithrandir> #startmeeting
[06:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:53. The chair is Mithrandir.
[06:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
[06:02] <Mithrandir> I notice the clock on MootBot is still wrong by almost ten minutes.
[06:02] <agoliveira> Let's try to make it in 1 hour this time, please? :)
[06:02] <agoliveira> or less
[06:02] <Mithrandir> sure
[06:02] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, I hope you got a snack :)
[06:03] <Mithrandir> We'll go through any of the specs which haven't had status reports sent to the list, then any other business.
[06:03] <Mithrandir> sounds like a plan?
[06:03] <rustyl> yes
[06:03] <Mithrandir> today, we'll start with the mobile-utilities, by AtomicPunk 
[06:03] <agoliveira> Yes, I'm having a fruit now to hold for another hour :)
[06:03] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  mobile-utilities
[06:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-utilities 
[06:03] <AtomicPunk> ok
[06:04] <AtomicPunk> so... did you want a status update?
[06:04] <Mithrandir> yes, please.
[06:04] <AtomicPunk> oh, sorry
[06:04] <Mithrandir> current status, any blockers and such.
[06:04] <AtomicPunk> ok, basically the moblin-applets package is building and running with 7 applets
[06:05] <AtomicPunk> I'm still pulling out irrelevant gnome code but for the most part the warnings have ceased
[06:05] <Mithrandir> sounds good, does it need any other packages than what's already in Ubuntu?
[06:06] <AtomicPunk> I'm also in the process of setting up a new project page for moblin-applets on the moblin site with documentation on how to use the various applets, and eventually with a nice tutorial on how to enable new pugins in the package with glade guis
[06:06] <AtomicPunk> nope, it's running well
[06:07] <AtomicPunk> that's about it, I'm also working on pulling in the gnome-system-tools code so that we can have a complete applets set
[06:07] <rustyl> AtomicPunk, you should talk about the path to adding the new moblin-applets package into Ubuntu Gutsy
[06:08] <AtomicPunk> well, I'm sortof new at that, I'm just waiting for feedback at the moment, what's the next step?
[06:08] <Mithrandir> AtomicPunk: what's your plan to avoid duplicating g-s-t and playing catch-up forever?
[06:08] <rob_> hi everyone
[06:09] <rustyl> a lot of what g-s-t does is not applicable
[06:09] <AtomicPunk> Mithrandir: basically the moblin applets is a fork of gnome-control-center and gnome-system-tools, it stops at version 2.18.1
[06:10] <AtomicPunk> I'm pulling out as much gnome-desktop stuff as possible and am making it hildo specific
[06:10] <AtomicPunk> hildon
[06:10] <Mithrandir> AtomicPunk: ok, and you intend to keep it that way and merge updated functionality by hand?
[06:11] <AtomicPunk> actually I don't intend to merge again, we'll manage these packages separately
[06:11] <AtomicPunk> We're just using gnome as a starting point
[06:12] <bspencer> if we see some nifty or important upstream feature we'll merge by hand
[06:12] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:12] <AtomicPunk> Yea, if it's really cool
[06:12] <Mithrandir> I'll see what I can do to get moblin-applets into the repository, but it might not happen today.
[06:12] <AtomicPunk> no problem
[06:13] <bspencer> is there a remedy planned to help alieviate the Mithrandir-in-the-middle bottle-neck?
[06:13] <AtomicPunk> oh, bspencer, incidentally, I added in the kepyboard applet as a starting point for Jian's keyboard work
[06:13] <bspencer> AtomicPunk: thanks
[06:13] <Mithrandir> bspencer: yes: getting more of you guys able to upload and getting more staffing from our side.
[06:13] <rustyl> the process for pushing changes into Ubuntu should be it's own topic
[06:14] <bspencer> Mithrandir: ok.  want to reduce our bugging you as soon as we can
[06:14] <Mithrandir> bspencer: so do I. .-)
[06:14] <bspencer> (though we'd prefer to clone you)
[06:14] <Mithrandir> s/.-)/:-)/
[06:14] <Mithrandir> AtomicPunk: thanks for your update.
[06:14] <Mithrandir> let's move on then.
[06:14] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  mobile-image-creation
[06:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-image-creation 
[06:14] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: that's your baby now, right?
[06:15] <HappyCamp> Yep
[06:15] <rustyl> more like red headed step child :->
[06:15] <HappyCamp> I burp it every night :)
[06:16] <HappyCamp> Uh, am I supposed to say something here???
[06:16] <Mithrandir> can you give us a status update?  Are there any changes going on, any blockers, etc?
[06:16] <HappyCamp> I have been continuing to fix bugs and try to improve things that I feel need to get better.
[06:17] <HappyCamp> At the moment I don't know of any blockers.  We of course had some issues in the last two days with the Gutsy repo, but I don't believe that was our fault.
[06:17] <mdz> I think the issue of desynchronization between the image creator config and what's in gutsy needs to be addressed
[06:17] <HappyCamp> Rusty did create an Ubuntu staging area for FSets.  Maybe he would like to describe that.
[06:17] <mdz> but perhaps we can do that as part of the general moblin->ubuntu discussion as rustyl suggested
[06:18] <agoliveira> mdz: +1
[06:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: I worked around it by yanking out all the problematic bits from the fsets, but that's hardly the right way to do it.
[06:18] <bspencer> we felt that
[06:18] <Mithrandir> rustyl: can you say something about the staging area?
[06:18] <HappyCamp> rustyl, would you like to describe the Ubuntu staging area fset?
[06:18] <rustyl> We added a new fset called 'ubuntu-stagin'
[06:18] <bspencer> g
[06:19] <rustyl> this fset is dedicated to packages that are currently in moblin, ...
[06:19] <rustyl> and are ready for pushing into ubuntu...
[06:19] <rustyl> but are not there yet.
[06:19] <rustyl> The toplevel full-stack fsets do NOT pull in this fset
[06:19] <HappyCamp> So this would be for packages which do NOT exist at all in Ubuntu??
[06:20] <rustyl> so this makes it easier to do testing fo the packages while making it very clear that the packages are not in gutsy
[06:20] <rustyl> HappyCamp, yes
[06:20] <rustyl> then we have successful ume builds
[06:20] <rustyl> it facilitates testing and also helps document what needs to be pushed 
[06:21] <rustyl> for new packages that is
[06:21] <rustyl> we still have the issue of existing packages needing to push updates
[06:21] <rustyl> thoughts anyone?
[06:21] <agoliveira> rustyl: So one have to add a high level fset and this one to have it?
[06:22] <amitk_> will the packages disappear from moblin once they are merged into ubuntu?
[06:22] <rustyl> people have to add an additional step when creating target images
[06:22] <HappyCamp> amitk_, some packages will disappear from moblin but others will remain.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> rustyl: I'd like to address the pushing bit as a separate topic.
[06:22] <rustyl> amitk_, but gutsy is pulled first
[06:22] <rustyl> ok
[06:22] <agoliveira> ok
[06:23] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: thanks; let's move on
[06:23] <HappyCamp> k :)
[06:23] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  mobile-mediaplayer
[06:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-mediaplayer 
[06:23] <bspencer> I compiled a long list of functional specifications
[06:23] <Mithrandir> (skipping those specs with status reports, and anything from Charliejohnson_ as he's not here)
[06:24] <bspencer> after chatting with the Pepper guys a little we realized that htere were some holes in our current list
[06:24] <bspencer> the scope of media is quite large, actually
[06:24] <bspencer> I'm in the middle of updating the online blueprint
[06:24] <Charliejohnson_> Mithrandir: I'm monitoring but am in an all day meeting.  
[06:24] <bspencer> should be done by end of meeting
[06:24] <Mithrandir> Charliejohnson_: ok.
[06:24] <bspencer> the media player is at a state of being ready to be pulled in (with moblin-applets)
[06:25] <Mithrandir> I've run into some problems pushing the media player into Ubuntu.  Short summary is python-hildon is quite annoying to get to behave properly.  Once I've fixed that I'll push it in.
[06:25] <bspencer> it is currently called "mobile-player" but we'll be renaming it to "moblin-media"
[06:25] <Mithrandir> could we do that before pushing it?
[06:25] <bspencer> Mithrandir: ok.  I know that horace worked on that piece
[06:25] <bspencer> Mithrandir: yes.  we'll rename it today
[06:25] <bspencer> horace also had some problem with python, but he fixed it
[06:25] <bspencer> perhaps only in moblin... I don't recall.  I'll have to check into that
[06:25] <agoliveira> bspencer: moblin-media or moblin-media-player?
[06:26] <bspencer> the former 
[06:26] <Mithrandir> can you punt the blueprint back to awaiting approval once you've edited it?
[06:26] <agoliveira> Werid... :)
[06:26] <bspencer> Mithrandir: will do
[06:26] <bspencer> agoliveira: well, complain now
[06:26] <bspencer> :)
[06:26] <bspencer> moblin-media-viewer
[06:26] <agoliveira> ;)
[06:27] <kwwii> it is more than either a player or a viewer, I think the general name is probably more understandable
[06:27] <rustyl> how about project-builder 
[06:27] <bspencer> one of the areas that we are still not covering gracefully is getting content on the MID
[06:27] <agoliveira> bspencer: You probably have like 3 milion marketing guys in your building. Let them do that :)
[06:27] <bspencer> agoliveira: done
[06:28] <kwwii> rustyl: just cause you want an icon, don't take it out on me
[06:28] <bspencer> currently our sync plan is to have a USB interface to the PC.  That's it.
[06:28] <bspencer> but we might want to extend that for user simplicity.
[06:28] <bspencer> But in general we are making good progress on the player
[06:28] <bspencer> the blueprint is nearly done
[06:28] <bspencer> hoping to have discussion on it this week
[06:28] <bspencer> <end status>
[06:29] <agoliveira> lenkawell: Hi Len.
[06:30] <lenkawell> agoleira, hi!
[06:30] <Mithrandir> ok, I'm quite interested in seeing how it
[06:30] <mdz> lenkawell: (meeting in progress)
[06:30] <Mithrandir> 's looking now
[06:30] <bspencer> I'll send a screenshot to the list in the next few minutes
[06:30] <Mithrandir> ok, moving on.
[06:31] <Mithrandir> amitk_: you haven't sent updates to the list, have you?
[06:31] <amitk_> Mithrandir: no time today...
[06:31] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  power-management-in-ubuntu / mobile-kernel
[06:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  power-management-in-ubuntu / mobile-kernel 
[06:31] <Mithrandir> amitk_: you get to do it live, then. :-)
[06:32] <amitk_> ok... so the list is SDIO stack, FB_VESA and thermal
[06:32] <amitk_> SDIO stack got integrated with -10.30
[06:32] <Mithrandir> does it generate uevents properly, so it can be taken out of /etc/modules?
[06:33] <mdz> 2.6.22-10.30 is what's in the current daily builds
[06:33] <amitk_> Mithrandir: haven't tested SDIO yet on the crownbeach
[06:34] <Mithrandir> do you have any sdio hardware?
[06:34] <amitk_> FB_VESA was enabled on request from Intel, but protests from mjg59
[06:34] <mjg59> There should be no reason for FB_VESA to be built in
[06:34] <mjg59> usplash uses its own VESA implementation
[06:34] <amitk_> Mauri promised to send me a SDIO WLAN card .. still waiting on that
[06:34] <amitk_> perhaps an ACTION?
[06:35] <Mithrandir> ? on what?  test sdio hardware when it arrives?
[06:35] <Mithrandir> or take FB_VESA out?
[06:36] <amitk_> to send me an SDIO peripheral for testing :)
[06:36] <amitk_> I am also working on moving UME and LPIA to a binary-custom.d build
[06:36] <Mithrandir> what does that mean, in practice?
[06:36] <Mithrandir> I think she already knows, but I can follow up on that.
[06:37] <amitk_> in preparation for the gutsy update that might have the upstream MMC stack
[06:37] <amitk_> does anybody have problems with that? Users shouldn't notice the difference
[06:38] <Mithrandir> no, it just took me a minute to remember what it meant
[06:38] <Mithrandir> it means we can do crazy patching with new, fresh code and such which doesn't touch the normal builds, right?
[06:38] <amitk_> To clarify further: this is to allow us to patch only a single flavour (UME/LPIA) with patches
[06:38] <amitk_> right
[06:39] <amitk_> ok.. so moving on
[06:39] <Mithrandir> ok, coolie
[06:39] <Charliejohnson_> amitk_: So it sounds like this will allow us to have UME running on its own schedule from gutsy?
[06:39] <amitk_> Charliejohnson_: not entirely on its own, but you could put in more breakage-inducing stuff in there :)
[06:40] <mdz> Charliejohnson_: it's a partial decoupling on the kernel side, yes
[06:41] <Mithrandir> amitk_: ok, so moving on to FB_VESA.
[06:41] <amitk_> after that, I will merge the thermal patches that have been languishing all this week due to our kernel upload problems
[06:41] <Charliejohnson_> mdz:OK great.  Will take this into account in the re-plan.
[06:41] <amitk_> mjg59: ?
[06:42] <mdz> amitk_: usplash makes VESA calls directly, it doesn't use fb
[06:42] <mjg59> It /can/ use fb, but if it needs to on x86 then that's a bug
[06:42] <mjg59> It should be fixed in usplash, not worked around in the kernel
[06:43] <rustyl> then there must be a bug in usplash
[06:43] <mdz> amitk_: you said FB_VESA was requested from Intel...who?  and was it for usplash or something else?
[06:43] <mjg59> rustyl: Sure. I need someone to file a bug with hardware information.
[06:43] <Mithrandir> rustyl: .. or in the VESA implementation on the silicon. :-P
[06:43] <rustyl> rob_, you have more info... right?
[06:43] <amitk_> Alek Du and Rob
[06:43] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Eh. If it works with the kernel code, it can't be that bad
[06:44] <Mithrandir> mjg59: point.
[06:44] <amitk_> mdz: it was for usplash problems
[06:45] <rustyl> well, alek isn't on the meeting (he lives in Shanghi), and i can't go into more details
[06:45] <jpan_olympia> rustyl, alek is probably on the plane to JF now
[06:46] <Mithrandir> amitk_: can you take responsibility for talking with Rob and mjg59 and getting it worked out?  If mjg59 says we shouldn't need FB_VESA, I trust him and we should get the usplash bug fixed.
[06:46] <rob_> i can fill you in
[06:46] <Mithrandir> ah, there's rob
[06:47] <rob_> alek found out that usplash wasn't working in the UME kernel and he thought it was because FB_VESA was disabled
[06:47] <rob_> we have FB_VESA configured on our kernel and it works fine
[06:47] <mjg59> Enabling FB_VESA and passing vga=whatever will cause usplash to fall back to using the framebuffer interface
[06:47] <Mithrandir> ok, so we should probably try flipping that and see if it works around the problem, and if so, take it from there?
[06:47] <rob_> i believe he recompiled your kernel with FB_VESA turned on usplash began to work also on your kernel
[06:48] <mjg59> If you're not passing vga=, it'll do nothing
[06:48] <mjg59> (You shouldn't be passing vga=)
[06:48] <mjg59> There seems to be an issue with our modular vesafb at the moment, tha tresults in it failing to work properly if you pass a vga= option - the bootloader will put the hardware in a vesa mode, but vesafb won't be initialised properly
[06:49] <mjg59> But again, you shouldn't be passing vga= on the kernel command line
[06:49] <mjg59> (And if you're not, vesafb won't do anything regardless of how it's built-in)
[06:49] <Mithrandir> it seems to me this is a bit hard to debug in the meeting without Alek here.
[06:49] <Mithrandir> given that he's spent some time debugging it
[06:49] <mjg59> Yeah. If someone could file a bug, we'll work through it.
[06:50] <amitk_> rob_: bug?
[06:50] <rob_> alek did file a bug
[06:52] <robr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/133557
[06:53] <mjg59> Ah, yeah, got it
[06:53] <amitk_> It's sparse on details
[06:54] <mdz> rob_: bugs should be filed on the appropriately versioned kernel package, not on linux-meta.  if you put the expansion of linux-image-`uname -r` into the package box, it should do the right thing
[06:54] <Mithrandir> let's move on, and you can work on it out of band?
[06:54] <mjg59> Sure.
[06:55] <Mithrandir> amitk_: power/thermal stuff is just waiting to be merged and has been blocked on the kernel hilarity earlier in the week?
[06:55] <mjg59> (Oh, turns out I'd replied to that bug already)
[06:56] <amitk_> basically yes. Plus the conversion to binary-custom.d. Since I am not entirely comfortable with the size of the patches. I will share it on kernel-team (mjg59, you on it?)
[06:56] <Mithrandir> ok, sounds good to me.
[06:56] <amitk_> that's all from me
[06:56] <Mithrandir> move on to how to get stuff from moblin into Ubuntu, then?
[06:57] <rob_> mdz: i'll pass the info onto my team. we're still learning how your bug process works. 
[06:57] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  moblin/Ubuntu synchronisation
[06:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  moblin/Ubuntu synchronisation 
[06:57] <mdz> I have another meeting in 2m :-/
[06:57] <bspencer> agoliveira's stomach does too ;)
[06:57] <mjg59> amitk_: I am
[06:58] <mdz> rustyl: you took an action to follow up on this from the last meeting; can you summarize the outcome for us?
[06:58] <rustyl> yes
[06:58] <agoliveira> bspencer: I alredy had 2 apples, can wait a bit longer ;)
[06:58] <rustyl> we are changing the way our build process works
[06:58] <rustyl> currently...
[06:59] <rustyl> when ever anyone makes a change, we automatically generate a new package and push it into our apt repository
[06:59] <rustyl> we will be changing this so that the autobuild still happens (to assist in unit testing), but...
[07:00] <rustyl> the only time the package is pushed to our repository is when the maintainer updates the changelog entry from UNRELEASED to anything else
[07:00] <Mithrandir> can you have it skip it when it's changed to "gutsy", since that means it'll be in Ubuntu soonish?
[07:00] <rustyl> then then maintainer is on the hook to also push the package (following whatever process we have) into gutsy
[07:01] <rustyl> Mithrandir, that shouldn't be too hard
[07:01] <rustyl> so upload on anything but UNRELEASED or gutsy
[07:01] <Mithrandir> that, together with purging anything that's older in moblin than gutsy and then publishing Packages.gz in a more readable format somewhere should be a nice "list of outstanding work".
[07:01] <Mithrandir> or at least, outstanding uploads.
[07:02] <rustyl> hmmm.... seems like we could have a page on moblin that parses Packages.gz to indicate what is pending updates to gutsy
[07:02] <rustyl> and it could link directly into the source repository to make it easy to see diffs
[07:03] <rustyl> HappyCamp, thoughts?
[07:04] <rustyl> BTW, HappyCamp will be in Boston so you guys can iron out any wrinkless in the new process
[07:04] <agoliveira> Cool.
[07:04] <HappyCamp> sorry, I was distracted with trying to book my travel :(
[07:04] <Mithrandir> sounds good.
[07:05] <HappyCamp> rustyl, I'm sure we can do that.  It's just 1s and 0s
[07:05] <HappyCamp> I'll see if I can get time for it.
[07:05] <agoliveira> Everything is ;)
[07:05] <rustyl> this allows for the moblin work flow to more naturally fit into the ubuntu work flow, but we still need to address the hand off of packages into gutsy
[07:06] <Mithrandir> rustyl: yes, it doesn't actually make the packages flow faster, but it makes it possible for me to get an answer to the question "is $package outdated based on what's in moblin?"
[07:06] <rustyl> before we talked about starting some Intel guys on the path the enlightenment (or... motu)
[07:07] <Mithrandir> yes, that's something I'd still like to pursue.
[07:08] <rustyl> is there anything else we can do before that?
[07:08] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  HappyCamp to create page on moblin.org which lists packages which are newer in moblin than gutsy
[07:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  HappyCamp to create page on moblin.org which lists packages which are newer in moblin than gutsy 
[07:08] <agoliveira> rustyl: path for enlightenment -> http://www.enlightenment.org/
[07:08] <Mithrandir> rustyl: ideally, I'd like whoever ends up being your point man for that to be in Boston too, since dholbach is going to be there.
[07:09] <rustyl> hmm... sounds like HappyCamp is up for bat
[07:09] <HappyCamp> sounds like it.
[07:09] <rustyl> since he tends to be our build guy, it makes sense
[07:09] <Mithrandir> and he gets to yell at the rest of you when you make silly mistakes. ;-)
[07:10] <rustyl> oh crap
[07:10] <bspencer> HappyCamp enjoys that
[07:10] <HappyCamp> BOFH!
[07:11] <Mithrandir> so while this won't be fixed very-short-term, it should be better in the medium term and even less painful long-term
[07:11] <Mithrandir> we'll also be staffing up so I'm less of a bottle-neck
[07:11] <Mithrandir> (and Adilson should get upload access once he's been mentored a little bit more)
[07:12] <Mithrandir> rustyl: do you think this is adequate, or are there more steps we need to make things happen more quickly?
[07:12] <Mithrandir> cloning me is unfortunately not really an option. :-P
[07:12] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: You should think about fatten up a bit so you would be less of a bottle-neck :P
[07:12] <rustyl> i think it's worth a shot
[07:13] <rustyl> or would that be shoot
[07:13] <Mithrandir> shot.
[07:13] <Mithrandir> ok, sounds good then.
[07:13] <rustyl> either way... we could have a standing agenda item to revisit how this is working
[07:13] <Mithrandir> I'll make a note about that.
[07:13] <Mithrandir> [AGREED]  Revisit moblin/Ubuntu synchronisation next week.
[07:13] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Revisit moblin/Ubuntu synchronisation next week. 
[07:13] <Mithrandir> does anybody have any other business before we close?
[07:14] <mjg59> Mithrandir: From the application point of view, OH have just commited hildon support for their development branch of contacts
[07:14] <agoliveira> Cool!
[07:14] <kyleN> I have a question
[07:14] <Mithrandir> mjg59: yay, that's great news.  Any idea when it'll be in a released version?
[07:15] <mjg59> Mithrandir: No clue. We may need to package it separately.
[07:15] <Mithrandir> mjg59: ok, thanks for the update.
[07:15] <Mithrandir> kyleN: shoot
[07:15] <kyleN> I've been chatting with various people about firming up graphical themeing. Should this be a formal part of the plan?
[07:16] <bspencer> kyleN: I think it should
[07:16] <bspencer> it's big enough
[07:16] <kwwii> definitely
[07:16] <bspencer> I didn't know there was "a plan" :)
[07:16] <kwwii> plan=get everything done
[07:16] <Mithrandir> yes, it should be written down somewhere as a spec.
[07:17] <agoliveira> sub_plan = one way or another
[07:17] <Mithrandir> kwwii: plan: 1. create ubuntu mobile 2. ... 3. profit.
[07:17] <kyleN> we have for example discussed creating a theme sdk package that uses splicer and other related activities
[07:17] <kwwii> kyleN: btw, I have been looking into the themeing tools and there is much more than just the slicer...I'll try to document things as I create my first test theme
[07:18] <kyleN> i sent a summary of our irc chat on this topic to the folks who were involved, should I send this to the list?
[07:18] <bspencer> Mithrandir: lol 
[07:19] <Mithrandir> kyleN: would probably be useful, yes.
[07:19] <kyleN> will do. 
[07:20] <Mithrandir> it would be useful as a conversation starter, and if kwwii jumps in too, it'd a dialogue rather than a monologue too.
[07:21] <kyleN> it's been a multipart conversation so far.
[07:21] <Mithrandir> that's good
[07:22] <kwwii> kyleN: will you start a spec or should I?
[07:23] <kyleN> Can you?
[07:23] <kwwii> sure, no problem
[07:23] <Mithrandir> ok, any other business?
[07:24] <agoliveira> I'm ok.
[07:24] <Mithrandir> adjourned, then
[07:24] <Mithrandir> #endmeeting
[07:24] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:16.
[07:24] <Mithrandir> not under one hour, but at least under one and a half
[07:25] <rustyl> that's an improvement
[07:25] <agoliveira> SO it seems :) GOing lunch now...
[07:25] <bspencer> not too shabby considering that bspencer didn't send status
[07:25] <Mithrandir> with status from you + amit, I think we can make an hour next week
[07:25] <bspencer> Mithrandir: we'll see
[08:04] <kwwii> so how does one mount a usb stick on a running Q1?
[08:07] <rustyl> kwwii, i don't have my device in front of me, but you should just be able to drop into a terminal and do a 'mount /dev/sda /mnt' or something similar like using /dev/sda1 if you have partitions on the stick
[08:07] <rustyl> but that is if you booted off the hd
[08:07] <rustyl> otherwise it will be sdb
[08:08] <rustyl> kwwii, long term we will have hal up and running an the automount will take care of this
[08:09] <kwwii> hrm, I tried to mount pretty much any sd* I could think of and it keeps saying that it is already mounted or /mnt is busy (but /mnt is not mounted to anything)
[08:10] <kwwii> hehe, now I get it
[08:10] <rustyl> kwwii, hmmm... maybe hal is already on it
[08:10] <kwwii> I booted off the hard drive but it find is as sdb
[08:10] <rustyl> see if it automounted to /media/something
[08:10] <rustyl> ok
[08:10] <kwwii> thanks :-)
[08:11] <kwwii> btw. it would be nice for us non-techies to have some kind of notice when we can update our systems without worries of ruining things (like when the current system won't boot right or such)
[08:11] <kwwii> and a list of installable apps would be nice too :-)
[08:15] <rustyl> yes, that should be handled by the nightly build, where we not only kick off a build but also have some amount of testing to find if the image is usable and then a notice when the results look good with something like a change log... or maybe nightly is a little too often
[08:15] <rustyl> at the very least, it would be nice to have tribe UME builds
[08:16] <kwwii> right
[08:16] <kwwii> even better would be a few developers to hold my hand everytime I change something :p
[08:17] <rustyl> pass that thing... don't be a hog.  some others would like to have a hit or two
[08:18] <kwwii> ;-)
[08:21] <agoliveira> This may be interesting: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/pocketsphinx/
[08:57] <seb128> agoliveira: could you attach the diff rather than copy it to the description?
[08:57] <seb128> agoliveira: and also explain what you patch is doing?
[08:57] <agoliveira> seb128: Sure.
[08:58] <seb128> agoliveira: speaking about the tasks bug
[08:58] <agoliveira> Ok, just let me organize things here because I made the same mistake with stardict
[08:58] <agoliveira> Sorry
[08:59] <seb128> that's ok
[08:59] <seb128> everybody needs to learn ;)
[08:59] <seb128> I'm happy to sponsor the update if the bug is done correctly :)
[08:59] <agoliveira> seb128: Now I saw the mistake. Is there a way to just delete it?
[09:00] <seb128> agoliveira: the bug? no
[09:00] <seb128> agoliveira: you can edit the description and replace it with some text
[09:00] <seb128> and then add an attachment
[09:00] <agoliveira> Ok, I'll do that hold on.
[09:02] <agoliveira> seb128: Hmmm... I just noticed that there's a different path if I need to update the code base as well isn't it? In one case, I need to first update stardict to 3.0 and then apply the patch.
[09:02] <seb128> agoliveira: I'm not sure I understand your question
[09:03] <seb128> I only looked at the tasks bug
[09:03] <agoliveira> I'll return to that subject later. It's just something that I saw. Let me fix the others first.
[09:03] <seb128> the " subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors" seems to be not working
[09:03] <seb128> the team is not subscribed
[09:07] <agoliveira> seb128: Can you check if I've done correctly this time?
[09:07] <agoliveira> seb128: and, btw, be gentle with the patch. It's the first time I patch debian/rules so albeit it works, you will probably frown over it :)
[09:08] <agoliveira> If it's ok, I'll send the rest.
[09:08] <seb128> agoliveira: looks good
[09:08] <seb128> let's look at the patch itself now
[09:08] <seb128> not good
[09:09] <seb128> the package use a patch system
[09:09] <seb128> that's not to put random changes in the diff.gz
[09:09] <seb128> when you have one change that's ok
[09:09] <agoliveira> Sorry, don't get it.
[09:09] <seb128> when you have 10 changes mixed this way updating the patches or dropping them is not easy
[09:10] <seb128> when, you should have one diff in debian/patches
[09:10] <seb128> and not change random files in the package
[09:10] <seb128> the patch is applied at build time
[09:10] <seb128> like
[09:10] <seb128> apt-get source tasks
[09:10] <seb128> cd task-0.11
[09:10] <seb128> mkdir debian/patches
[09:11] <seb128> cdbs-edit-patch 01_hildon_build
[09:11] <seb128> make your changes
[09:11] <seb128> exit 0
[09:11] <seb128> and you have a nice patch with what you changed
[09:11] <agoliveira> Ok but what about when you have a lot of changes?
[09:11] <seb128> ?
[09:12] <seb128> cdbs-edit-patch does a copy of the directory
[09:12] <seb128> you can do as many changes you want
[09:12] <seb128> run autotools
[09:12] <seb128> etc
[09:12] <seb128> when you exit 0 it creates a patch with everything you did
[09:13] <seb128> having changes directly to the package as you did is not easy to manage
[09:14] <agoliveira> seb128: Ok, I'm just worried how difficult it would be in the case of packages like claws that needs changes in quite a few files due changes on hildon headers.
[09:15] <seb128> how is the number of change relevant?
[09:15] <seb128> cdbs-edit-patch log you into a shell to do your changes
[09:15] <seb128> you change whatever you want and exit
[09:15] <seb128> you have to do them anyway
[09:16] <seb128> directly on the patch or in the edit patch environment
[09:16] <agoliveira> Oh... I see.
[09:16] <seb128> only in one case it's mixed to the source
[09:16] <seb128> and in the other case it creates a nice patch
[09:16] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: so, I've been thinking about moving the initramfs scripts out of moblin-image-creator and into ume-config-*.  Do you have any opionion on that?
[09:16] <seb128> if you don't use patch and have several set of changes after some time it's getting hard to know what change is doing what
[09:17] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, I don't really have an opinion on it.  rustyl or rob_ may.
[09:17] <agoliveira> One last question: above you did cdbs-edit-patch 01_hildon_build. Why 01_hildon_build? Just a random name or it has a meaning?
[09:17] <seb128> random name
[09:17] <rustyl> Mithrandir, in the past when we built the initramfs in the buildroot, then it was problematic, but now it's possible
[09:17] <seb128> we try to use names describing what the patch is doing though
[09:18] <agoliveira> seb128: Ok. Thanks Sebastian. I'll try that.
[09:18] <Mithrandir> rustyl: it makes it slightly more easy to get kernel updates going on the device itself.
[09:18] <rustyl> Mithrandir, HappyCamp , sounds like a good idea actually
[09:18] <seb128> agoliveira: you're welcome
[09:18] <Mithrandir> rustyl: ok, I'll implement, test and upload, then.
[09:19] <Mithrandir> rustyl: I've also been thinking about putting the common config from ume-config-* into a ume-config-common package which could become part of the ubuntu-mobile metapackage, so it'd be installed in "bare" chroots too.
[09:19] <Mithrandir> and it'd leave us with one place to update common code.
[09:19] <seb128> agoliveira: for desktop packages we tend to split the code changes and autotools, it's easier to maintain, you might want to do the same
[09:20] <seb128> agoliveira: the code changes are usually easy to update
[09:20] <rustyl> so... what do we have so far that is common?
[09:20] <Mithrandir> rustyl: but if we want to do that, I imagine you guys might want to host it on moblin.org?
[09:20] <seb128> the autotools changes often don't apply so we just have to run those again rather than trying to figure what is conflicting
[09:20] <Mithrandir> rustyl: session script, hostname, hostname mangling, interfaces.
[09:20] <agoliveira> seb128: Thus creating 2 patches?
[09:20] <Mithrandir> hm, session script is slightly different, but that could be accomodated.
[09:21] <rustyl> Mithrandir, true
[09:21] <Mithrandir> ume-gui-start would be common
[09:21] <rustyl> Mithrandir, we can create a new project
[09:21] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure if the touchscreen.rules are the same or not.
[09:21] <rustyl> not the same, but it wouldn't hurt to have rules that don't apply
[09:21] <Mithrandir> what do you need for that to happen?  "<Mithrandir> yo, plz creat project, kthx!" or something more?
[09:22] <rustyl> if you create a source tree then i can get it up on moblin
[09:22] <Mithrandir> sure
[09:22] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, Either rustyl or I can put it up there.
[09:23] <Mithrandir> there's no way to copy files from another git repo, preserving history, is there?
[09:23] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, If you clone the repo, and then start from that as your working point then it should have the history.  I would think.
[09:23] <seb128> agoliveira: that's usually easier to maintain
[09:24] <agoliveira> seb128: Got it. Thanks.
[09:24] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: yeah, but it'd have lots of irrelevant history too.  Oh well, it's not that interesting history.
[09:24] <HappyCamp> I am not a git expert so not sure if there is a super fancy way to split up just the stuff you want.
[09:24] <seb128> agoliveira: what did you change? only the configure.ac?
[09:25] <agoliveira> seb128: On tasks? No, also debian/rules and a few fixes on headers IIRC.
[09:25] <seb128> agoliveira: you only need to run autoconf in this case
[09:25] <seb128> looks like you ran automake
[09:26] <agoliveira> seb128: I don't think so but I don't actually remember right now so I'll just check. 
[09:26] <seb128> ok
[09:32] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: please clone git://git.err.no/ume-config-common to somewhere on moblin.org, then
[09:33] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, okay.
[09:34] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, what package would you say ume-config-common is most closely associated with?
[09:35] <HappyCamp> Of the ones on moblin
[09:35] <Mithrandir> samsung-q1-ultra-config and crown-beach-config?
[09:36] <HappyCamp> Okay.  Thanks :)  Now I wonder who should be allowed to modify those packages.
[09:36] <Mithrandir> I'd like to. :-P
[09:36] <HappyCamp> You will be able to.
[09:36] <Mithrandir> whoever can write to the other config packages should be fine.
[09:37] <HappyCamp> Yeah, I'm just thinking who that should actually be.  At the moment it is kind of wide open but we want to restrict things a little bit more.
[09:37] <Mithrandir> ok
[09:37] <HappyCamp> We have locked down image-creator and the kernel.
[09:37] <HappyCamp> And a few other packages.
[09:37] <Mithrandir> make it a small list and post to dev@ saying "I've made it a small list of people, if you think you should be able to change it, mail me with a rationale"?
[09:38] <HappyCamp> So that people don't suprise the maintainer with changes.
[09:38] <Mithrandir> yeah, makes sense.
[09:38] <HappyCamp> rustyl, rob_ any ideas on who you think should be able to edit the *-config-* packages?
[09:39] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ..t/samsung-q1-ultra-config > git log | grep ^Auth | sort -u
[09:39] <Mithrandir> Author: Alek Du <alek.du@intel.com>
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Frank Li <Frank.Li@intel.com>
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Horace Li <horace.li@intel.com>
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Rusty Lynch <rusty.lynch@intel.com>
[09:40] <Mithrandir> (with me from various different machines)
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no>
[09:40] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, thanks :)
[09:40] <Mithrandir> for c-b-c it's a few more:
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Bob Spencer <bob.spencer@intel.com>
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>
[09:40] <Mithrandir> Author: Rob Rhoads <rob.rhoads@intel.com>
[09:41] <Mithrandir> (but then, Bob and Jacob only have one commit each, Rob and Rusty have three, Alek has 6, I have 33, for c-b-c)
[09:42] <Mithrandir> http://rafb.net/p/3rzhAb84.html has the counts
[09:42] <Mithrandir> if you want to have a cutoff
[09:44] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, Thanks.  I have created a group and put rusty, rob, alex, and yourself in it.
[09:44] <HappyCamp> For all the config packages.  I'll see if anyone complains.
[09:44] <Mithrandir> possibly mail dev@ saying you've put the restrictions in place too
[09:44] <HappyCamp> Good idea
[09:45] <agoliveira> seb128: Much nicer patch now I guess :)
[10:01] <agoliveira> Tip: I'm a fan of midnight commander since I started with linux and I know that you can press enter on a .tar.gz or .zip (among others) and have it open like a filesystem that you can navigate and even add, delete, modify files deppending of the format. Now I discovered that you can do the same with .patch files :)
[10:03] <stgraber> agoliveira: it's also a good ftp/sftp/smb client
[10:03] <agoliveira> Seriously, emacs is amazing but I never took the time to really learn it
[10:03] <agoliveira> stgraber: Yep. I use it for that too.
[10:04] <agoliveira> Once I had RMS seatted by my side for about 2 weeks and watch him using emacs is really something :)
[10:05] <agoliveira> ...once you get used with him, of course :)
[10:20] <kyleN> Ken created the theme SDK spec. Thanks! May I add some specifics?
[10:30] <kwwii> kyleN: please do
[10:31] <seb128> agoliveira: the debian directory changes don't go in the patches
[10:31] <agoliveira> seb128: You mean like the debian/rules changes?
[10:32] <seb128> yes
[10:32] <agoliveira> What should I don in this case?
[10:32] <seb128> the debian directory is copied from one version to the next one
[10:32] <seb128> edit directly, there is no debian directory conflict on update since that's distribution specific
[10:32] <agoliveira> and attach the files or what?
[10:32] <seb128> debian/patches has changes to use on the upstream sources
[10:33] <seb128> copy this patch to debian/patches
[10:33] <seb128> edit debian/rules
[10:33] <kyleN> kwwii. here goes
[10:33] <seb128> add an another patch with the configure update
[10:33] <kwwii> kyleN: btw, there are several tools in addition to the slicer...once I figure out how they all work and what exactly they all do I
[10:33] <kwwii> 'll share that info
[10:35] <agoliveira> seb128: Sorry, maybe I'm thick but I don't get it. Is this documented somewhere because this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess does not talk about it.
[10:36] <seb128> agoliveira: that's basic packaging, you might want to read the MOTU documentation
[10:37] <seb128> agoliveira: basically edit debian/rules
[10:37] <seb128> adding your patch without those changes to debian/patches
[10:37] <seb128> add an another one for the autoconf update
[10:37] <seb128> update debian/changelog
[10:37] <seb128> do a debdiff and attach it to the bug
[10:38] <agoliveira> Sorry it's just that I have a feeling that each time I'm told how to do this I'm told differently.
[10:39] <asac> agoliveira: you want another opinion ;) ?
[10:39] <agoliveira> Guys, sorry, I don't want to be mean. I'm probably just too tired.
[10:39] <seb128> agoliveira: if somebody recommended you to not use a packaging system tell me who ;)
[10:40] <asac> agoliveira: i don't see what is wrong with what seb128 tells you ... its good old school ;)
[10:40] <seb128> asac: what else would you recommend? ;)
[10:40] <asac> nothing :)
[10:40] <seb128> excellent ;-)
[10:43] <agoliveira> seb128, asac. Of course there's nothing wrong guys, I'm just a bit frustrated and tired. I'm going to stop for now and return later with a fresh head and go over this again.
[10:43] <seb128> agoliveira: I can do this update if you want
[10:44] <seb128> your patch has the changes
[10:44] <seb128> and the configure update, changelog etc are done quickly enough
[10:45] <seb128> otherwise we can continue tomorrow
[10:45] <agoliveira> seb128: Thanks. I really need to learn this for good but we need those applications there badly fast so if you could help me with those ones I'll apreciate.
[10:46] <kyleN> kwwii: I added a few specifics to the Summary section of the SDK theme spec as fodder ;-)
[10:46] <agoliveira> Well, I really need to leave for a bit so I'll try again later and we can continue tomorrow as it's probably late for you already.
[10:47] <kwwii> kyleN: great, I'll check it out
[10:48] <kwwii> kyleN: looks good. I fixed one small typo
[10:49] <kwwii> kyleN: that document will change over time, so no worries about changing it when you feel the need
[10:49] <kyleN> kwwii, cool!
[10:52] <kwwii> kyleN: it really might have been worthwhile for us to sit in a room for a day or two to work out the details on this - the tools avaiable turned out to be pretty powerfull but pretty complicated, I am sure we can improve on things
[10:52] <agoliveira> seb128: Let me get this straight. YOu're telling me to:
[10:52] <agoliveira> 1) Get the original source
[10:52] <agoliveira> 2) On that edit debian/rules
[10:52] <agoliveira> 3) Use cdbs-edit-patch to create a patch for the code itself
[10:52] <agoliveira> 4) Again to the autoconf stuff
[10:52] <agoliveira> 5) Once done edit the debian/changelog
[10:52] <agoliveira> 6) Create package
[10:52] <agoliveira> 7) debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > diff
[10:52] <agoliveira> 8) Attach diff to the bug report
[10:53] <agoliveira> Is that correct or should I just give up and open a fruit store?
[10:53] <kwwii> agoliveira: do you know if the sound and other applets (in the panel) should start by default?
[10:53] <seb128> that's correct ;)
[10:53] <kyleN> kwwii, where are you? (geographically)
[10:54] <agoliveira> seb128: JHC! Finally! :)
[10:54] <kwwii> kyleN: Germany - wanna come and have a real beer?
[10:54] <kwwii> :p
[10:54] <kyleN> Absolutely!
[10:54] <seb128> agoliveira: it's getting late here, I'll go to bed soon, maybe you can work on that, attach the debdiff later and I'll upload tomorrow morning if that's ok
[10:54] <agoliveira> kwwii: Sorry I really don't know.
[10:54] <agoliveira> seb128: Sure. I have to leave now for some time too.
[10:54] <agoliveira> Thanks a lot.
[10:54] <seb128> agoliveira: if some other changes are required I'll explain you what to do when you are around tomorrow and then upload
[10:55] <kwwii> agoliveira: no worries, just thought you would know more than I
[10:56] <kyleN> hmmm.. Oktoberfest? ;-)
[10:56] <agoliveira> Oktoberfest is for tourists :)
[10:56] <kwwii> I am about an hour and half north of Munich
[10:56] <kwwii> agoliveira: totally true
[10:56] <kyleN> (darn - someone figured out I'm a tourist )
[10:56] <kwwii> it is for australians and japanese
[10:57] <kwwii> it starts in a month though
[10:57] <agoliveira> kyleN: I live about 100Km from Blumenau where there's even bigger Oktoberfest than Munich's
[10:57] <kwwii> most people think that oktoberfest is in october but it is not
[10:57] <kyleN> Now you'll tell me leiderhosen and scnapps ain't really German? ;-)
[10:58] <kyleN> s/scnapps/schnapps/
[10:58] <kwwii> kyleN: where I live people really wear lederhosen and beer is not legally alcohol - it is a foodstuff
[10:58] <kyleN> there's alcohol in beer?
[10:58] <agoliveira> Some say so...
[10:59] <kwwii> so we have beer machines in most places of employment and when you go out for lunch your boss will buy you one :-)
[10:59] <kyleN> No wonder I feel woozy
[10:59] <kyleN> not to say "boozy"
[11:00] <kwwii> agoliveira: yeah but augsburg is not bavaria
[11:00] <kwwii> close but no cigar
[11:00] <agoliveira> Close enough :)
[11:00] <kyleN> agoliveria, kwwii, to ask a dumb question, do you two both speak German?
[11:01] <kwwii> kyleN: I speak German, and another dialect spoken in the area I live in
[11:01] <bspencer> and if you've chatted with kwwii you'll find he speaks another dialect of english few know too
[11:02] <kyleN> lol
[11:02] <kwwii> bspencer: lol, that is because I have lived here too long :-)
[11:02] <kwwii> I am not to being used to the english anymore
[11:02] <kyleN> A friend of mine moved to Berlin five years ago and is happy and never wants to come back
[11:02] <kwwii> hehe, Berlin is killer
[11:02] <kwwii> berlin is totally different than the rest of Germany
[11:02] <kyleN> how so?
[11:04] <kwwii> hard to describe, the people are not so hard-core old-school German and you have a feeling of freedom that doesn't exist in the rest of Germany
[11:05] <kyleN> Sounds great. Hope to visit some day.
[11:05] <kwwii> I spend a few weekends a year in Berlin visiting a good friend of mine (from Spain)
[11:05] <agoliveira> kyleN: I don't speak german but I want to. I'm brazilian and as such I speak portuguese natively.
[11:05] <mawhalen> robr - ping
[11:05] <kyleN> My grandfather came from Germany in the 1920s. My last name is Nitzsche
[11:06] <kwwii> yeah, I was wondering if you were a philosopher :-)
[11:06] <kyleN> I think, therefore I spam
[11:07] <kyleN> ago, you've got me beat: English and a smattering of French
[11:07] <agoliveira> kyleN: "I drink therefore I am"
[11:07] <agoliveira> :)
[11:07] <kyleN> lol
[11:07] <kyleN> you win
[11:08] <kyleN> the bartender asked Descartes whether he wanted a beer
[11:08] <kwwii> kyleN: from your name I would guess that your grandfather came from northern Germany?
[11:08] <kyleN> Decartes said, I think not, and disappeared
[11:08] <agoliveira> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=653s-FBXpTA
[11:08] <kyleN> Leipzig...
[11:09] <kwwii> my grandfather came from Germany as well, he never spoke english - no wonder I picked it up so quick
[11:09] <kwwii> Leipzig is pretty nice too, very old-school German in ways
[11:10] <kyleN> MPython youtube clip, ladies and bruces
[11:10] <kwwii> the best thing about the catholics is that they drink a lot and have lots of holidays :-)
[11:11] <kwwii> lol, been a while since I saw that one
[11:12] <kyleN> kwwii, ago, gotta disappear. cheers
[11:12] <kwwii> cheers, see you soon
[11:14] <kwwii> bspencer: is there a good reason for the text editor being named "mousepad"? confused me at first (oh, and the icon sucks)
[11:15] <bspencer> kwwii: ask the people who made it.  We just grabbed it from maemo project
[11:16] <bspencer> and I made the icon
[11:16] <bspencer> which entailed blowing up a smaller icon (obviously)
[11:16] <kwwii> bspencer: trying to cut into my job eh? be carefull or I'll start coding again
[11:17] <bspencer> if you code as well as I make icons I've got no worries
[11:17] <kwwii> the last coding I did was making the first boot splash which was a nasty kernel hack - trust me you don't want me coding
[11:18] <kwwii> btw. I was wondering how I should go about changing the artwork - should I simply start replacing things?
[11:19] <kwwii> I was thinking about putting some of my test stuff in just to show what is easily changeable and what relies on other parts
[11:19] <kwwii> kinda afraid that people would complain when I break things though
[11:20] <bspencer> kwwii: we'll complain if you break things, but not if the graphics change
[11:20] <bspencer> you could also create a new theme and we could try it out, maybe not hte default until it is usable
[11:21] <bspencer> the only issue I can think of is that we have something ready for Sept conferences.  So if the theme is totally broken (more than the sorry state of today) then it could be frustrating
[11:22] <kwwii> well, in a few weeks I can fix most of the major problems (and until now it is mainly tweaking the existing theme)
[11:23] <kwwii> I would like to get things looking somewhat nice and halfway different than the maemo stuff for september
[11:23] <kwwii> so that people can at least see the direction we are heading in
[11:24] <kwwii> but I know that when I start changing things now I will fsck things up for a while
[11:24] <kwwii> another thing to do would be to use graphics from the correct dirs (we seem to have hacked things into other places)
[11:26] <kwwii> I thought about sending kyle a list of pics just to scare him ;-)