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[04:05] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:07] <LaserJock> sbalneav!
[04:07] <LaserJock> heh, I'm stalking you
[04:08] <LaserJock> I've been waiting 1.5 hrs for you to show up ;-)
[04:08] <sbalneav> Well, I'd always hoped to be stalked by Christie Brinkly, or Gisele Bundschen, but, you'll do in a pinch, I suppose :)
[04:09] <LaserJock> heh
[04:09] <LaserJock> ok, local devices
[04:09] <LaserJock> now, I believe the user has to be added to the fuse group, right?
=== sbalneav checks the magic 8-ball
[04:10] <sbalneav> "Answer is certain"
[04:10] <LaserJock> ok, well I don't have a fuse group
[04:10] <LaserJock> should I?
[04:11] <sbalneav> Did you check the libfuse dpkg install script? "if ["$USER" = "LaserJock" ] ; then exit; fi
[04:11] <sbalneav> Yes, you should.
[04:11] <sbalneav> got ltspfs package installed on the server?
[04:11] <sbalneav> Wow, I'm full of beans tonight :)
[04:11] <sbalneav> Must be in a good mood :)
[04:12] <sbalneav> Install the ltspfs package.  That'll pull in fuselibs which will add groups.
[04:12] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't have ltspfs
[04:12] <LaserJock> just ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone
[04:13] <sbalneav> Then add yourself to fuse group, log out, log in, and.... magic!
[04:19] <LaserJock> hah, it worked
[04:19] <LaserJock> amazing
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[06:34] <electric_penguin> question about italc can any help?
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[09:34] <RichEd> hey there mr savage
[09:34] <RichEd> I had a mate at school called Bruce Savage ... went on to sail for South Africa in the olympics
[09:37] <RichEd> cbx33: Jill sent me some more artwork samples ...
[09:37] <cbx33> yes I was about to reply
[09:37] <cbx33> howz it going RichEd
[09:38] <highvoltage> RichEd: isn't there a radio DJ who's name is also Peter Savage?
[09:39] <RichEd> highvoltage: I am trying to remember his first name, ex capital radio ... now does voice overs for Top Billing
[09:40] <highvoltage> RichEd: that's the one, yes
[09:41] <RichEd> highvoltage: Kevin Savage
[09:46] <RichEd> anyone who is interested ... check out the artwork samples here and make comments:
[09:46] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
=== RichEd is back in 30 min
=== mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
=== ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | Tribe5 development release is out: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/gutsy/tribe-5/
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[10:45] <RichEd> hi ogra
[10:45] <ogra> hey
[10:46] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer <- new samples added ... I dig #1 global
[10:46] <RichEd> see what you think
[10:46] <ogra> i think she loves our logo to much, but beyond that .... BEAUTIFUL !!!!!!
[10:47] <ogra> WOW
[10:49] <ogra> i think if the shadow behind the logo would just be a bit more fuzzy so its not as much in the foreground that would suffice
[10:49] <RichEd> cool ... can you add a comment to the page
[10:49] <ogra> will do
[10:50] <jsgotangco> thats nice
[10:50] <RichEd> I think the global one has some great elements: earth (geography and global village) old writing like sailing records (history) maths & biology etc.
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[10:50] <RichEd> jsgotangco: not bad for a granny who usually illustrates kids books working with with pen & paper !
[10:50] <ogra> yes, its perfect for a default
[10:51] <jsgotangco> wow
[10:51] <ogra> we need it at 1600x1200 for the final version
[10:51] <ogra> so it scales down to all sized
[10:51] <ogra> *sizes
[10:51] <jsgotangco> bbl
[10:52] <RichEd> add that all to the comments on the page, it is easiest to have it all in one place for her to refer to ... and then we can also save the comments / specs for later guidance for any other volunteers
[10:52] <ogra> yup
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[11:16] <gordon> anybody to help me with x11vnc?
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[11:27] <highvoltage> froud: long time no see!
[11:42] <froud> highvoltage: yip, I am still kicking. Good to see you 2
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[12:14] <Nubae> hi, anyone here got experience setting up ltsp with ATI video cards?
[12:17] <ogra> Nubae, you want the prorietary driver ?
[12:18] <Nubae> I guess so, I've tried, using fbdev, ati, vga, fglrx (guess this isnt precompiled for ltsp) and nothing works as the XSERVER setting
[12:18] <Nubae> I'm running laptops with radeon x1450 mobility
[12:18] <Nubae> I can get it to shell with the screen_07=shell command... but thats about it
[12:19] <ogra> its just not installed by default (teh binary blob drivers are loaded into a tmpfs on boot, that would eat 15M of syour ram, so we dont install tehm by default)
[12:19] <ogra> which release is that ? feisty ?
[12:19] <Nubae> ah, ok... feisty yeah
[12:19] <Nubae> but is it normal that no other driver works?
[12:20] <ogra> it should fall back ro vesa by default if it cant detect a matching driver and you didnt fiddle with the lts.conf file
[12:20] <ogra> *to
[12:21] <Nubae> vesa doesnt work either
[12:21] <Nubae> at the point nbd-client starts up, screen goes black, as if it were starting up X
[12:21] <Nubae> then goes back to console, then repeats
[12:22] <Nubae> I'm pretty sure its the graphics card that is giving me problems, but could it be something else?
[12:22] <ogra> can you check what drive gets detected by default with SCREEN_07=shell and checking the generated xorg.conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
[12:22] <ogra> *driver
[12:23] <Nubae> yup, just a sec
[12:23] <Nubae> so leave XSERVER empty then?
[12:24] <ogra> dont modify the default lts.conf ;)
[12:24] <ogra> its only used for overriding autdetection nowadayxs
[12:32] <Nubae> ok, this might seem like a stupid question, but where do I add users to use the ltsp environment...
[12:32] <Nubae> ?
[12:32] <ogra> on the server
[12:32] <Nubae> yeah, I added a user there and added them to the fuse group
[12:32] <ogra> the ltsp client doesnt have any users and root is locked ...
[12:33] <ogra> if you log in in an X session you are actually logging in on the servers desktop, soyour users need to be created there
[12:33] <Nubae> yeah, I added a user there, put him in the fuse group and gave him all permitions...
[12:34] <ogra> right, thats fine then
[12:34] <Nubae> do I need to restart dhcp?
[12:34] <ogra> no
[12:34] <ogra> only if you make changes to the dhcpd.conf
[12:34] <Nubae> weird... cant login
[12:35] <ogra> got X ?
[12:35] <Nubae> no X on the ltsp... just shell
[12:35] <ogra> you wont be able to log in
[12:35] <ogra> as i said, there are no users in thin clients and root is locked
[12:35] <Nubae> ok... problem is I cant get to anything but shell
[12:36] <ogra> add SCREEN_07=shell or set a rootpw in the client chroot
[12:36] <ogra> (go with the first)
[12:36] <Nubae> i did screen_07=shell
[12:36] <ogra> that should give you an open shell on tty7
[12:36] <Nubae> not open
[12:36] <ogra> (no login prompt)
[12:36] <Nubae> asking me for login and password
[12:36] <ogra> ctrl-alt-f7 ?
[12:37] <Nubae> soh!
[12:37] <Nubae> thanks
[12:37] <ogra> ok :)
[12:37] <Nubae> :-)
[12:37] <Nubae> ochams razor
[12:37] <ogra> so have a look at the xorg.conf and check which driver was detected
[12:38] <Nubae> vesa
[12:40] <Nubae> I'm guessing I have to build the fglrx driver in the ltsp environment, right?
[12:40] <ogra> can you run startx ands check what output you get on teh console ?
[12:40] <ogra> no
[12:41] <ogra> you dont have to build anything in ltsp5 ;)
[12:41] <ogra> its all there
[12:41] <ogra> or easily installable
[12:41] <Nubae> ok, sounds cool
[12:41] <ogra> whyt does startx give you ?
[12:41] <Nubae> VESA(0) No matching modes
[12:41] <ogra> bad
[12:41] <ogra> what kind of monitor do you have there ?
[12:42] <Nubae> its a laptop
[12:42] <Nubae> Asus
[12:42] <ogra> widescreen ?
[12:42] <Nubae> 17inch wxga+
[12:42] <Nubae> widescreen yeah
[12:42] <ogra> ddcprobe vesa
[12:43] <ogra> run that, see if it properly reports its modes
[12:43] <Nubae> seems to
[12:43] <ogra> weird
[12:43] <ogra> then xorg should pick them up ...
[12:43] <ogra> anyway
[12:44] <ogra> do you have a xorg.conf that works with these laptops ? (from a former install or so)
[12:44] <Nubae> nope... theyve got windows installed on them
[12:44] <Nubae> but I can I look for one on the web
[12:45] <Nubae> could it be changing the res might help?
[12:45] <Nubae> I've got 1440x900 received by dtiming
[12:45] <ogra> the card should work with something free as well, i'll happily help you to get fglrx going, but would like to find out why it doesnt work with vesa at least
[12:45] <Nubae> yeah, same here, its a weird issue
[12:46] <Nubae> btw... you're being a great help, thankyou...
[12:52] <ogra> did the ddcprobe command return any standard modes like 1024x768 or so ?
[12:52] <ogra> or only widescreen ones
[12:58] <Nubae> let me retry
[12:58] <Nubae> I just did a dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
[12:59] <Nubae> added 1440x900 and startx dies with the same error, vesa no modes found, no screens present
[01:00] <Nubae> but yeah lots of modes found up to 1600x1200
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[01:10] <Nubae> I've been looking for a xorg.conf on the web, but they are all with fglrx
[01:10] <ogra> right
[01:10] <ogra> lets get that then
[01:10] <Nubae> ok
[01:11] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-386
[01:11] <ogra> that command will install the kernel driver for fglrx
[01:11] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
[01:11] <ogra> this installs the Xorg driver
[01:12] <ogra> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
[01:12] <ogra> that copies the new initramfs with the restricted drivers to the tftp dir you boot from
[01:12] <ogra> now set XSERVER=fglrx and it should work
[01:14] <ogra> oh, indeed, all these commands need to be run on the server
[01:17] <highvoltage> it would be nice if restricted-manager integrated nicely with ltsp
[01:17] <highvoltage> (on the server, of course)
[01:17] <ogra> it should integrate with ltsp-manager ;)
[01:18] <ogra> if i ever get that done :P
[01:18] <highvoltage> :)
[01:18] <Nubae> hmmm... internet works, but apt-get doesnt
[01:18] <ogra> we have a spec for update-manager integration r-m shoudl work similar here :)
[01:19] <Nubae> apt-get update... no go
[01:19] <ogra> Nubae, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update ?
[01:19] <ogra> check /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf ...
[01:19] <ogra> might be wrong ... if so, just copy the one from /etc over
[01:20] <Nubae> nope, its correct
[01:20] <Nubae> ping google.com works anyway from the chrooted env.
[01:20] <ogra> whats the error with apt-get update ?
[01:21] <Nubae> file not found
[01:21] <ogra> which file ?
[01:22] <Nubae> main packeges and restricted
[01:22] <Nubae> let me check sources.list
[01:22] <Nubae> ok... thast the problem
[01:22] <Nubae> its empty
[01:23] <Nubae> just the install CD
[01:23] <ogra> right
[01:23] <Nubae> copy from normal root should work right?
[01:23] <ogra> copy over the servers one
[01:23] <Nubae> ok
[01:23] <ogra> and apt-get update it indeed
[01:24] <ogra> i wonder if its sensible to just copy that over on CD installs ...
[01:24] <ogra> its very unlikely that you actually use the CD in the chroot after install
[01:25] <Nubae> hardly use the CD on normal installs... its a pain that it asks u for it all the time
[01:25] <ogra> right
[01:27] <Nubae> and u get the failed errors if the cdrom is not in the drive when u do a apt-get update
[01:27] <ogra> yep
[01:27] <ogra> i'll see that i get that fixed for gutsy
[01:27] <Nubae> but guess not everyone has internet 8-)
[01:28] <ogra> right
[01:28] <ogra> i'd guess the majority of our users wont have broadband even but still ...
[01:28] <ogra> its unlikely you upgrade ltsp from CD
[01:28] <Nubae> yeah, its the same in regular ubuntu too though
[01:30] <Nubae> so, I've got a question... I've got a pretty high end setup here... HP Proliant G5 server with 4 gigs ram, gigabit ethernet throughout and duo core2 laptops with 1 gig ram...
[01:30] <Nubae> will I loose out using ltsp instead of regular install?
[01:30] <ogra> no
[01:31] <ogra> simkply because you have to do your maintenance only on one machine you will always have an advantage here ....
[01:31] <Nubae> thats what I thought... ltsp is always advertised for low end setups, but guess high end benefits just as much
[01:31] <ogra> yeah
[01:31] <ogra> its a bit of a waste, but the advantages weight it out imho
[01:33] <Nubae> I guess, but new laptops with a decent size screen are all core 2 duo now
[01:33] <Nubae> and this school absolutely wanted laptops
[01:33] <Nubae> with big screens :-/
[01:33] <ogra> which somewhat defeats the purpose :)
[01:34] <ogra> what did you pay per laptop ?
[01:34] <Nubae> 900 $
[01:34] <ogra> woah
[01:34] <ogra> with think clients you would have made it for half the price even with 20" screens
[01:35] <Nubae> I know... but they wanted laptops
[01:35] <ogra> yep
[01:35] <ogra> their choice ...
[01:35] <Nubae> at least I have vista and xp installed too, in case they need that crap for anything
[01:35] <Nubae> hopefully not, I wont support it
[01:36] <Nubae> crossover with various win apps should suit them fine
[01:36] <ogra> just be careful with the licensing :)
[01:36] <Nubae> ah yes... wine then
[01:37] <ogra> crossover or wine on ltsp enable you to use single user apps in a multi user env ... you usually break the licenses with that
[01:37] <Nubae> yeah crossover has a server version
[01:37] <Nubae> wine is free so I'll stick to that
[01:37] <Nubae> from what I understand its the same anyway
[01:38] <Nubae> without fancy frontend
[01:38] <ogra> i'm not talking about wine or crossover ... i mean the apps you  run through them
[01:38] <ogra> the windoews apps with the restricted licenses
[01:38] <Nubae> oh ok...
[01:39] <Nubae> I'll let the school know, not to use more than one computer at a time :-/
[01:40] <ogra> not sure what MS piracy ploce would say about that though ...
[01:40] <ogra> *police
[01:41] <Nubae> well, right now, I'm migrating the school from a windows only system with NO licenses for any software
[01:42] <ogra> heh
[01:42] <ogra> improvement at least :)
[01:42] <Nubae> I live in Spain, and no one pays for anything here
[01:42] <Nubae> its terrible
[01:43] <Nubae> I know very few companies that have licenses for their software
[01:43] <ogra> but every village has its own linux distro at least :P
[01:43] <Nubae> all of the schools in the area run pirated windows
[01:43] <Nubae> well... in theory everyone should be using linux
[01:43] <Nubae> in practice no one is
[01:44] <ogra> yeah
[01:44] <ogra> i guess spain had the most linux distros per headcount of inhabitants in the world :)
[01:44] <Nubae> I just dont get it... the perfect garden of eden is staring them in the face and they continue to spend money on useless products
[01:44] <Nubae> hehehe, yeah indeed
[01:45] <Nubae> its great for creating custom solutions... if only people would use it
[01:45] <ogra> yeah
[01:45] <Nubae> I was looking into molinux, which has a great small business management software integrated
[01:45] <Nubae> gesticam its called
[01:46] <Nubae> u can stick it on a usb stick and use wherever u want
[01:46] <Nubae> its the perfect solution
[01:46] <ogra> from gutsy on ubuntu will hhave ebox as default solution
[01:46] <Nubae> the problem is that business law and tax laws change so much from location to location
[01:47] <Nubae> having something truly universal is gonna be difficult
[01:47] <ogra> http://www.ebox-platform.com/
[01:47] <ogra> its a spanish product afaik
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[01:47] <Nubae> really? wow, have to check that out then
[01:49] <Nubae> hey what is ltsp-update-sshkeys used for?
[01:49] <Nubae> I read u need to use that whenever u change IPs... but which ones?
[01:50] <ogra> the one of the NIC your thin client network is connected to on the server
[01:50] <ogra> in gutsy it gets some extra functions so you can add more servers (ldm has a server selection menu in gutsy so you can have per department servers etc)
[01:51] <Nubae> great... still needs a lot of documentation... but its a wonderful solution ltsp
[01:51] <ogra> yeah
[01:51] <Nubae> when I'm done, I'll try and help out in any way I can
[01:51] <ogra> we'ree missing a lot here WRT docs
[01:53] <Nubae> ok, testing with fglrx
[01:54] <Nubae> yes!
[01:54] <ogra> :)
[01:55] <Nubae> beautiful... thanks... I should write up a how to for ati users
[01:55] <ogra> yeah, put it under https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP if you are done
=== ogra goes for a coffeebreak, bbl
[01:56] <Nubae> yeah I will, thanks again
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[02:20] <Nubae> does beryl work through ltsp?
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[04:13] <jbarry> hi all I would like to ask on how to remotely shutdown the clients from an admin logon session
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[04:30] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:32] <jbarry> hello all, can anybody help me on how to remotely shutdown LTSP clients?
[04:32] <highvoltage> jbarry: I don't think that has been implemented yet (or even feature-requested, for that matter)
[04:32] <highvoltage> ogra: is it in ltsp-manager perhaps?
[04:33] <ogra> highvoltage, ltsp-manager is a mockup
[04:33] <highvoltage> aaah, I thought it was the latest incarnation of the student control panel
[04:34] <jbarry> i was using client manager but it has only disconnect
[04:34] <sbalneav> jbarry: I just posted something about this last night to the ltsp-discuss list
[04:34] <highvoltage> well, fortunately it's easier to get a feature into a mockup than into a real tool :)
[04:34] <ogra> there is no way yet, we havent found a safe way to do that yet
[04:34] <jbarry> i was hoping to like issue an init 0 to a client
[04:35] <sbalneav> jbarry: Check the ltsp-discuss list.  I implemented a solution.
[04:35] <highvoltage> ogra: in terms of security?
[04:35] <jbarry> ok ill go look
[04:36] <sbalneav> My way's not particularily safe, but it works.  :)
[04:36] <ogra> highvoltage, i dont see a way witrhout opening a port wide
[04:37] <ogra> sbalneav, ltsp-discuss != ltsp-devel ?
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[04:38] <sbalneav> Well, there is a separate ltsp-devel list, but not many people ever use it :)
[04:38] <ogra> meh
[04:38] <ogra> i'm only subbed to -devel
=== ogra adds the 68st ML to his evo :/
[04:38] <sbalneav> Oh, you're missing out on all the fun :)
[04:38] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[04:38] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[04:39] <ogra> ah, well, over 500 mails a day ... i doubt adding more gains more fun
[04:39] <sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34897/
[04:39] <sbalneav> it's exCEEDingly gross.
[04:39] <sbalneav> but, for someone who wants the functionality....
[04:40] <sbalneav> It's better than the old infod, which didn't have a password at all :)
[04:40] <ogra> what i was thinking about was some kind of monitor we start from an ldm rc script ... that monitors a dir thats owned by the logged in user
[04:40] <ogra> so we just need to drop stuff in that dir and the client picks it up on next poll
[04:41] <ogra> indeed that doesnt help if nobody is logged in
[04:41] <ogra> but it has slightly more safety
[04:41] <sbalneav> yeah, that's the problem
[04:42] <sbalneav> Personally: IP controlled powerbars :)
[04:42] <sbalneav> One assumes something under snmp could handle this somehow, but then that means running an snmp agent on each box.  Urrrgh
[04:43] <ogra> yeah
[04:43] <sbalneav> My solution's ugly, the password's sniffable.
[04:43] <ogra> same prob .. thenm we can leave a port open as well :)
[04:43] <sbalneav> right.
[04:43] <ogra> lets put that up for speccing in boston :)
[04:44] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer btw
[04:46] <highvoltage> ogra: what if, the server writes shut-down information on a file in the chroot? and if the client sees a file that exists, it shuts down?
[04:46] <ogra> highvoltage, wont work
[04:46] <highvoltage> ko
[04:46] <ogra> not with the squashfs implementaition at lest
[04:46] <highvoltage> well, nbd makes it easy to add additional mounts
[04:46] <ogra> with nfs this would work though, but only locally
[04:47] <ogra> hmm, thats actually an idea
[04:47] <highvoltage> the shut down file wouldn't need to be in the chroot, could be in a control directory in the server on a seperate moun too
[04:47] <ogra> right
[04:47] <highvoltage> and it could be mounted on bootup, so you know the shares come from the same server
[04:47] <ogra> yup
[04:47] <ogra> even from initramfs if we want
[04:48] <highvoltage> that's what I was thinking
[04:48] <ogra> even though i'm getting cauitious about the initramfs stuff
[04:48] <ogra> i'd love to move *everything* configuration related in there, but that would make it extremly hard for other distros
[04:49] <ogra> so we need to keep the balance here
[04:49] <highvoltage> ah, that's a very good consideration
[04:50] <ogra> well, i'm seeing them all struggle at the same point
[04:50] <ogra> redhat tried with anaconda for building the boot image and didnt get it working ....
[04:51] <ogra> opensuse had the same with kiwi
[04:51] <ogra> so they all heave probes wwith the initramfs creating step
[04:51] <ogra> *probs
[04:52] <highvoltage> hmmm
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[06:36] <boyam> ogra: she did an awesome job on the artwork...I likey likey. I agree with your suggestion to tone it down....I'd use them all as backgrounds though
[06:36] <ogra> yeah, lets see how space we have left on the CD in the end ... i'll try to add as many as i can
[06:37] <boyam> :)
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[07:00] <Nubae> hi again...
[07:01] <Nubae> So, I've got LTSP working fine now, on ati, but looking at the ltsp based xorg.conf I see its using ati as the video driver instead of fglrx, is this normal?
[07:02] <ogra> not if you set XSERVER in lts.conf ... that would be a bug then
[07:02] <Nubae> this morning Ogra was kind enough to help me out getting the fglrx drivers installed
[07:02] <Nubae> oh.. hi Ogra
[07:02] <Nubae> :-)
[07:02] <ogra> hey
[07:03] <Nubae> well... I did set fglrx in XSERVER yeah
[07:03] <Nubae> thought it was odd
[07:03] <ogra> it is ... thats a bug ...
[07:03] <Nubae> ok... and if I change it locally in xorg.conf, will that fix it?
[07:03] <ogra> but it shouldnt happen in gutsy
[07:04] <ogra> no
[07:04] <Nubae> hmm... so what shall I do to get fglrx working? I'd like to use blender on these machines and I'm gonna need the proprietary drivers
[07:04] <ogra> if you save the xorg.conf to the server and copy it into the chroot, then you can point to it with the XF86CONFIG_FILE variable and use the static file
[07:04] <ogra> speeds up booting a lot btw
[07:09] <Nubae> the variable... where does that go? in lts.conf?
[07:10] <ogra> yes
[07:10] <ogra> and the path needs to be relative to the chroot
[07:10] <ogra> (/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/my-xorg.conf becomes XF86CONFIG_FILE=/etc/my-xorg.conf)
[07:11] <Nubae> allright, out of curiosity... the actual xorg.conf that is in each ltsp computer, is that not a copy of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf?
[07:12] <ogra> no, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf gets overwritten during client boot
[07:12] <Nubae> right... so when I edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf on the ltsp terminal
[07:12] <ogra> then its gone on next boot
[07:13] <Nubae> riiight... gotcha
[07:13] <ogra> since all writeable bits in a booted client sit in ram
[07:13] <ogra> if ram is gone, data is gone ....
[07:14] <Nubae> makes total sense... now... I've got 120 gigs on each computer... is there a way to use those drives under ltsp?
[07:14] <Nubae> make them central storage somewhow?
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[07:15] <obiyoda> Hi all. Does edubuntu only serve out dhcp address to thin clients?
[07:16] <Nubae> obi... no
[07:16] <obiyoda> Thats what I thought but. I have a windows pc in one of my labs for multimedia stuff and it isn't grabbing an ip address from the edubuntu server.
[07:16] <ogra> Nubae, well, you could try to tweak teh chroot with some kind of network filesystem like GFS or AFS and export them to teh net... but that requires at least tw machines to be online constantly
[07:17] <ogra> *two
[07:17] <ogra> obiyoda, it depends on your setup ...
[07:17] <Nubae> yeah defeats the purpose
[07:17] <obiyoda> Right now it is a vanilla setup from the cd. Do I need to tweak the dhcp config files.
[07:18] <ogra> if you have a server with two network cards, it will use one interface for the thin clients (and for serving the dhc stuff) and one interface where it acts as client on another LAN
[07:18] <ogra> *dhcp
[07:18] <Nubae> if you're not careful, the thin client dhcp can end up serving the other network card
[07:19] <obiyoda> Yes that is my setup the two cards. One is the internal lab the other is going to a dsl router
[07:19] <ogra> if you have only one interface we dont start the dhcp server at all (since we assume your network might have one already and dont want to cause conflicts)
[07:19] <ogra> right
[07:19] <ogra> if your windows box is sitting on the internal lab network it should get an IP
[07:20] <ogra> by default the dhcp server wont attach t the outbound interface
[07:20] <ogra> *to
[07:23] <obiyoda> I also have a network enabled printer that should be grabbing an ip address but I can't tell if it is. Is there a way on the server to see which addresses have been leased?
[07:27] <Nubae> syslog should tell u
[07:27] <obiyoda> ahh never mind the printer is now showing up now under nmap. So I will check my windows box settings and see why it is being such a beast
[07:27] <obiyoda> nubae: thanks
[07:28] <obiyoda> ogra: thanks also for your help I will be back in a bit
[07:30] <ogra> :)
[07:35] <Nubae> <cntrl><alt><del> wont work to reload the new xorg will it, have to restart the terminal client right?
[07:36] <ogra> yes
[07:37] <Nubae> btw... dont know if this another bug or not, but X_MODE doesnt work either
[07:37] <ogra> its unsupported up to feisty :/
[07:37] <ogra> the xserver-xorg package simply desnt accept it
[07:38] <ogra> fixed in gutsy where we use a new mechanism for x detection
[07:38] <Nubae> sounds like gutsy is gonna be a big step forward
[07:38] <Nubae> at least for edubuntu
[07:39] <ogra> for ltsp :)
[07:39] <ogra> it is, yes
[07:39] <ogra> it radically changed some things
[07:39] <ogra> like dropping nfs
[07:39] <Nubae> yeah sorry... didnt wanna undermine the already massive amount of work done ;-)
[07:39] <Nubae> really, no nfs?
[07:40] <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
[07:40] <ogra> it boots about three times as fast
[07:40] <Nubae> lol... I copied the xorg.conf line for line from chroot ltsp and now X wont start
[07:45] <Nubae> ok... stupid me.. when u open up a terminal session... ssh into the server, then open up a tabbed terminal, you are automatically logged into another ssh session to the server, instead of to ltsp terminal
[07:46] <ogra> right
[07:46] <ogra> scp from the client console ;)
[07:46] <Nubae> but isnt it logical for it to open a new terminal session in the tab instead of copying it?
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[07:59] <Nubae> ok... I'm a little stupid maybe here... but... when u open a terminal session its always from the root of the server?
[08:00] <ogra> i you are in X its always on the server
[08:00] <ogra> *if
[08:00] <Nubae> but if I open a terminal session in X, then how do I check the local xorg.conf?
[08:00] <Nubae> I was trying to view it from the console...
[08:00] <ogra> you cant ...
[08:01] <ogra> right, that works
[08:01] <Nubae> so.. have to less it from a shell session?
[08:01] <ogra> on the thin client console you can see the locally used file ... in X you are always on the server
[08:01] <ogra> right
[08:02] <Nubae> but not from applications->accessories->terminal
[08:02] <ogra> right
[08:02] <Nubae> ok, just trying to get my head around this, its confusing
[08:02] <ogra> if you log in graphically its like you are locally sitting on the server
[08:03] <ogra> imagine a thin client like additional keyboard/mouse/monitor to the server
[08:03] <Nubae> ok, yeah its just another X session
[08:03] <ogra> s/to/on/
[08:03] <Nubae> but then the extra xorg.conf created locally doesnt work that way :-)
[08:04] <ogra> right, it needs to be in the client chroot
[08:04] <ogra> the stuff under /opt/ltsp/i386 is what the client mounts readonly during boot ...
[08:04] <ogra> if the file lies in there you can access it on a running client
[08:04] <Nubae> read only... but writes to ram
[08:05] <ogra> right
[08:05] <Nubae> gotcha.... think I've got it now
[08:05] <ogra> in the old nfs days we mounte a tmpfs and copied all files we needed writeable into that, thne changed them wher needed
[08:05] <Nubae> slower I take it
[08:06] <ogra> nowadays unionfs does that for us
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[08:07] <Nubae> its still difficult to access local config files that have been changed though
[08:07] <Nubae> like xorg.conf
[08:11] <ogra> you change them in /opt/ltsp/i386
[08:11] <Nubae> yeah but if they aren't always saved
[08:12] <Nubae> autodetection and then flush after exit... or am I getting confused
[08:13] <Nubae> if I edit the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf that is there, its not gonna work, I need to grab the xorg.conf from ram
[08:15] <ogra> no
[08:15] <ogra> you need to copy the xorg.conf from ram to the server
[08:15] <ogra> and dont call it /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf
[08:15] <ogra> then point the lts.conf var to it
[08:15] <ogra> call it /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf-custom or so
[08:16] <Nubae> yeah I've done all that, thats y I'm saying... its not that simple to edit config files
[08:16] <Nubae> maybe this is an exception
[08:16] <ogra> you just need to keep in mind that you shouldnt edit on the cliet :)
[08:17] <Nubae> how would u get the ram based xorg.conf then? or do u mean, u shouldnt have to be getting the client xorg.conf thats in ram
[08:17] <Nubae> ideally
[08:17] <ogra> log in on console
[08:18] <ogra> scp /etc/X11/xorg.conf <your_user>@server:/tmp/xorg.conf-custom
[08:18] <ogra> use an existing user of teh server for <your_user>
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[08:19] <Nubae> yeah I've got all that... but logging into the console by changing the lts.conf to get there seems complex for most users
[08:20] <ogra> well
[08:20] <Nubae> btw... is there a page where all the lts.conf options are shown for ubuntu?
[08:20] <ogra> you are special :)
[08:20] <ogra> there are not many thin clients out there using ati cards :)
[08:20] <Nubae> really? seems it would be half the market
[08:20] <Nubae> nvidia bein the other hald
[08:20] <Nubae> half
[08:22] <ogra> thin clients usually dont have nvidia or ati cards :)
[08:23] <ogra> the have via, trident or any other embedded graphics chip usually
[08:23] <Nubae> what about users that are using graphic intensive programs
[08:23] <Nubae> cant imagine blender running on an s3
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[08:28] <Nubae> wow... smart to hit the reboot button on a terminal session
[08:29] <ogra> heh
[08:35] <Nubae> well, after all this, I realised I was looking at the servers xorg.conf when I thought I was looking at the local rammed xorg.conf, as luck would have it the server has an ati card too
[08:35] <Nubae> so guess fglrx is working fine after all
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[08:38] <ogra> :)
[08:41] <Nubae> u know, if u have the fglrx driver loaded and have screen_07=shell on, the screen goes black and freezes
[08:43] <ogra> might be an fglrx bug i notced console switching doesnt work sometimes on the ati systems i use with it
[08:43] <ogra> not much we can do about bugs in the binary drivers :(
[08:43] <Nubae> I can console switch allright, just cant get into shell session with fglrx driver loaded
[08:44] <Nubae> well, at least I know its working... just one last question and I promise I'll leave u alone ;-)
[08:44] <ogra> try SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_06=shell ....
[08:44] <ogra> then tty6 should have a shell
[08:44] <Nubae> can I Install Beryl as I normally would, or not?
[08:45] <Nubae> regardless of the problems its known to have with ati...
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[08:46] <ogra> you should use compiz, not beryl ...
[08:46] <ogra> but you are aware that fglrx doesnt have composite support ?
[08:46] <Nubae> not proper support, but I've seen it work
[08:46] <ogra> not with a default X server
[08:47] <ogra> only with Xgl which we dont support and which will surely be tricky to set up in the client
[08:47] <Nubae> yeah dont the proprietary drivers also support some sort of internal composite?
[08:48] <Nubae> maybe thats nvidia
[08:48] <ogra> nvidia does
[08:48] <ogra> and the ati driver does with some cards
[08:49] <ogra> fglrx does it only through Xgl which adds a layer inbetween and is nearly as bd as using plain software rendering
[08:49] <ogra> s/ati/radeon/
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[08:50] <Nubae> yeah, ok, forget it then... I was so explicit about asking for nvidia containing laptops...
[08:50] <ogra> you mean ati
[08:50] <Nubae> no, I wanted them to get nvidia containing laptops
[08:50] <ogra> ah
[08:50] <ogra> but they did get you ati
[08:51] <Nubae> yeah :-) might as well have been s3
[08:51] <ogra> you could try if the ati driver supports composite with your card though ...
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[08:51] <Nubae> gonna look it up, but setting it up is just as In would nin a normal install right?
[08:52] <Nubae> only thing that I would change is the xorg.conf which has now been hard linked to a file in chroot
[08:53] <Nubae> ok, well, thankyou again for all your help, really you've been terrific, and I promise I'll give back to the community by writing up a how to for ati cards... including composite, if I can get it to work
[08:53] <ogra> yay
[08:54] <ogra> enjoy your ltsp :)
[08:55] <Nubae> do u guys actually get paid? or am I asking something I shouldnt be ;-) ?
[08:56] <ogra> i am, yes
[08:57] <ogra> i'm working for canonical and doe edubuntu and ltsp
[08:57] <Nubae> just you?
[08:57] <ogra> for these two ? yes
[08:58] <ogra> i would be nothing without sbalneav though :)
[08:58] <Nubae> and u do online help and software development?
[08:59] <ogra> well, less support, more development usually, but i had a hard week with the tribe5 release and needed some relaxation today
[08:59] <sbalneav> I get paid to develop LTSP.
[08:59] <sbalneav> Ogra pays me in beer :)
[08:59] <ogra> HAHAHA
[08:59] <ogra> :)
[08:59] <ogra> right
[08:59] <Nubae> u guys are in SA?
[09:00] <ogra> <- germany
[09:00] <sbalneav> I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
[09:00] <sbalneav> I do it because I love it.
[09:00] <ogra> i do because i have to
[09:01] <Nubae> yeah I can feel the love too... I used to be a gentoo user
[09:01] <ogra> (living in germany i mean)
[09:01] <Nubae> before the entire politics destroyed the distro
[09:01] <Nubae> now ubuntu seems to be miles ahead of everything else
[09:01] <sbalneav> Got tired of waiting for things to compile? :)
[09:01] <ogra> :)
[09:01] <sbalneav> Sorry, low blow :)
[09:02] <Nubae> true, some years ago, it actually made sense to make things that little bit faster
[09:02] <sbalneav> I'm one to talk.  I spend more time waiting for ltsp-update-image to finish than I do USING the image :)
[09:02] <Nubae> with todays hardware.. theres no point
[09:03] <Nubae> yeah but you're doing it to beta test I'm sure
[09:03] <sbalneav> We've managed to attract some good people.
[09:03] <sbalneav> yeah, test, test test.
[09:03] <sbalneav> 8 years ago I was looking for a thin client solution, and bumped into ltsp.
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[09:04] <sbalneav> Loved it so much I became one of the code devz
[09:04] <sbalneav> devs, sorry
[09:04] <Nubae> it is great I must say... I cant even imagina how much time I've saved with 40 computers in this School I'm setting up right now
[09:04] <cliebow> sbalneav Rocks!
[09:05] <sbalneav> And I got involved in Ubuntu and Edubuntu because that was the first distro that actively sought us out to work towards getting LTSP tightly integrated.
[09:05] <cliebow> we all do..
[09:05] <Nubae> I was gonna setup K12 first
[09:05] <Nubae> seemed to be more active
[09:05] <Nubae> but I didnt like the idea of a rpm based distro
[09:06] <Nubae> ltsp and ubuntu are pretty new friends though
[09:06] <Nubae> not that much info on the web at all
[09:06] <sbalneav> Yeah, we're developing so fast, docs are suffering.
[09:06] <ogra> new friends since 2,5years :)
[09:06] <boyam> sbalneav: now if we can knudge you over to saboyan....get that project up to date ...it'll make me happy :)
[09:06] <sbalneav> In the old days, LTSP docs were good, because we had two guys working with LTSP that JUST did doco.
[09:06] <ogra> we're not new :) we just suck a lot wrt docs
[09:07] <sbalneav> Now, it's the old problem: do I write code, or write docs.
[09:07] <sbalneav> We're WAY better than we were.  At least the handbook has SOMETHING in it now.  And I'll be adding more over the next couple of weeks.
[09:07] <ogra> boyam, we'll get there ...
[09:08] <ogra> yeah, i'll have to look after TCM ... :/
[09:08] <ogra> its such a mess
[09:08] <sbalneav> ogra: Where's the bzr repo for it?
[09:08] <ogra> well ...
[09:08] <ogra> the last one *might* be petes,
[09:09] <ogra> but best might be to just create a ew one from the source package
[09:09] <Nubae> well, like I said, Ill be glad to help writing upn something for getting ltsp working with ati
[09:09] <sbalneav> You gonna do any work for tcm this go-round?
[09:09] <ogra> sbalneav, bugfixing
[09:09] <ogra> the userlist stuff is totally f*cked up
[09:09] <sbalneav> How fast can you throw up a bzr repo?
[09:09] <ogra> that nedds to be done at least
[09:09] <sbalneav> Get one up, I'll give you a hand.
[09:10] <ogra> not tonight anymore
[09:10] <ogra> ill try to get it up over the weekend
[09:10] <sbalneav> What time's it there? 8-something?
[09:10] <ogra> 9:10pm
[09:10] <sbalneav> Cripes, I was up last night working 'till 1am
[09:10] <sbalneav> slacker :)
[09:10] <Nubae> I've got composite 0 in extensions, setting it to 1 should turn it on right?
[09:11] <ogra> sbalneav, recovering from tribe
[09:11] <sbalneav> heheh, just razzing you.
[09:11] <Nubae> in local rammed xorg.conf
[09:11] <sbalneav> When you put one up, shoot me an email.
[09:11] <ogra> Nubae, you shouldnt need to do anything but check the checkbox in the desktop-effects applet
[09:11] <ogra> (wile using the ati driver)
[09:12] <Nubae> fglrx
[09:12] <ogra> if it works it will just switch over
[09:12] <ogra> fglrx wont work
[09:12] <ogra> fglrx is fine fo GL but doesnt have composite as i said before
[09:12] <Nubae> ok, well ati wont work at all, so no composite I guess
[09:13] <Nubae> ok, when u said some ati cards have composite u meant with ati driver
[09:13] <ogra> didnt you have ati in the xorg.conf right after you installed fglrx ?
[09:13] <ogra> i thought you said something like that
[09:13] <Nubae> I was looking at the servers xorg.conf which happens to have an ati card
[09:13] <ogra> ah, k
[09:13] <ogra> to many ati cards in this world
[09:13] <sbalneav> ogra, you gonna do the big merge on Monday?  I got one more ltspfs bug to fix that I know of.
[09:14] <Nubae> edubuntu used to come with tons of educational apps
[09:14] <ogra> Nubae, they are on the server-addon CD now
[09:15] <ogra> didnt fit on one CD anymore
[09:15] <Nubae> ahh... k
[09:15] <ogra> sbalneav, before monday i hope
[09:15] <sbalneav> Gonna be in chat on the weekend?
[09:15] <ogra> we'll see
[09:16] <ogra> susie is grumbling already ... that i'm still typing
[09:16] <ogra> and we need to pick up a new guinea pig she bought (first female in the herd)
[09:16] <sbalneav> Go! Don't piss off your better half.
[09:16] <Nubae> indeed
[09:16] <ogra> but i'd like to get some stuff done ...
[09:16] <ogra> so we'll see ....
[09:19] <Nubae> si there a list somewhere of the education software that comes with edubuntu (addon disc)?
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[09:30] <cberlo> Hi folks.  Any able to tell me how to run a script at logout for an LDM user (ltsp thin client)
[09:30] <cberlo> ogra: Help?  :)
[09:31] <sbalneav> Which version of ltsp?
[09:31] <sbalneav> feisty?
[09:31] <cberlo> edgy
[09:31] <cberlo> got 99.9% of what I want working, now I just need to be able to unmount some remote shares at logout...
[09:32] <sbalneav> Probably modify ldm
[09:32] <cberlo> sbalneav: Okay.  Where does that live, and how do I make my mods permanent across upgradeS?
[09:33] <sbalneav> Look at the "ssh_remote_command" variable at about line 180 or so
[09:33] <sbalneav> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin
[09:33] <sbalneav> and you don't. :)
[09:33] <sbalneav> If you modify a distributed package, you'll have to maintain the mods yourself.
[09:33] <cberlo> Alright, it's a start.
[09:34] <sbalneav> You could also probably put something in for pam sessions, that or /etc/X11/Xsession.d
[09:34] <sbalneav> you'd have to play around a bit.
[09:34] <cberlo> I like that idea better -- where would you put the pam stuff for logout?
[09:34] <cberlo> I'm currently using libpam-script
[09:35] <sbalneav> Dunno.
[09:35] <cberlo> LOL
[09:35] <sbalneav> I'm merely making suggestions of where you can do investigating.
[09:35] <cberlo> Sounds decent.  :)
[09:37] <cberlo> Thanks.  Gotta run for the weekend!  Have a good one!
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[10:57] <cbx33> ping encompass
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