[12:30] pygi: yeah that all part of the same suite though isn't it? along with cdrskin [12:30] davmor2, part of same project, that is true [12:31] pygi: why was it dropped? [12:31] davmor2, I'd rather not discuss it since it wasn't me who dropped it [12:32] one of the reasons might be that lead developer of Brasero (Phillipe) who supported libburnia a lot has less and less time to work on it, and one more folk has joined [12:32] so he isn't actually properly maintaining the backend for libisofs/libburn, and he prefers dead projects [12:32] davmor2, enough arguments? :) [12:34] Yes thanks just wondered. So brasero will still work fine with the nautilus burn is that correct? [12:36] I don't know how it works, sorry [12:36] np [12:36] I have no intentions to fix software that isn't maintained [12:36] I know that Phillipe was talking something about removing n-c-b dependency [12:37] :) fair enough [12:37] davmor2, any more questions? :) === IntuitiveNipple [n=TJ@alexandros.tjworld.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:38] davmor2, anyway, I hope to make Brasero obsolete (i.e. I'll have a better app ;)) [12:38] oh oh oh when :) [12:39] no promises of anything [12:39] but I know it will support libburn & libisofs fully [12:40] pygi: :) it's sounding good already. Let me know if you need it testing [12:41] davmor2, it'll take some time to get it to testing phase :P [12:41] we're currently playing with some mockups ideas, /me believes in high usability applications [12:42] pygi: I did say if I could of said when :P [12:42] ok ok :D [12:43] davmor2, I'll poke you to comment on mockups when I think they're ready tho :p [12:44] davmor2, feel free to hangout in #libburn === udaleator [n=udaleato@217.26.160.171] has joined #ubuntu-devel === luisbg [n=luisbg@193.145.150.119] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jfluhmann_ [n=jfluhman@69.39.58.85] has joined #ubuntu-devel === davmor2 [n=davmor2@82-45-48-19.cable.ubr04.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === jrib [n=jrib@upstream/dev/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-devel === udaleator [n=udaleato@217.26.160.171] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-102-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thinkl [n=tom@216-15-114-66.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thinkl [n=tom@216-15-114-66.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === tck [n=tck@194.125.117.24] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508D8150.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack_ [n=j_ack@p508DABDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === EliasAmaral [n=dark@unaffiliated/EliasAmaral] has joined #ubuntu-devel === goedson [n=goedson@20158109246.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=cr3@bas5-montreal02-1167966155.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === luisbg [n=luisbg@193.145.150.119] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jetscreamer [n=jetscrea@unaffiliated/jetscreamer] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.active.Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === IntuitiveNipple [n=TJ@alexandros.tjworld.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === astro76 [n=james@unaffiliated/astro76] has joined #ubuntu-devel === manchicken_ [n=manchkn@74-134-231-37.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.active.Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === luisbg [n=luisbg@193.145.150.119] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508DA663.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@tetkyo044182.tkyo.te.ftth2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GmanAFK is now known as Gman === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jfluhmann_ [n=jfluhman@69.39.58.85] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === luisbg [n=luisbg@18.Red-88-23-98.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rnorwood [i=rnorwood@nat/redhat/x-f9770b0e2a449ff4] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:09] Any pythoners about? === Hobbsee slithers === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vincechen [n=vince419@61.146.9.129] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:35] hey Hobbsee you about? [05:35] superm1_: yes [05:35] would you be able to sponsor a ubiquity upload that evand posted earlier? He was looking for someone with main upload rights [05:35] http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/upload/ubiquity_1.5.12_source.changes [05:36] probably ~9 hours ago he posted it, but according to gutsy-changes no one has taken it [05:36] evand: ping [05:38] !logs [05:38] Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs [05:38] Hobbsee, according to my scrollback, it was at 18:21 UTC [05:39] superm1_: thanks === jordi_ [n=jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:39] oh, is ee === Lure [n=lure@38.99.84.33] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:53] superm1: done [05:53] thx Hobbsee appreciate it :) [05:57] Hobbsee, when i dput an SRU, its still 'dput ubuntu blah.changes' just the target release in debian/changelog will be say feisty-proposed, correct, no where special to dput? [05:57] superm1: correct === bbengs [n=ben@68-185-255-135.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:01] hello all, new to ubuntu here === Hobbsee waves [06:03] need some help with WPA, can anybody help me? [06:03] #ubuntu for support [06:04] thanks === bbengs [n=ben@68-185-255-135.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === IntuitiveNipple [n=TJ@alexandros.tjworld.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee curses apport [06:20] What would be the implications of reverting to gnome-session 2.1.18 (as is in Feisty) ? See bug #129029 [06:20] Launchpad bug 129029 in gnome-session "[Gutsy Tribe-5] No Sound on Login Screen or during Login" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129029 === Jonbo [n=Jonbo123@adsl-068-209-082-227.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:31] Hobbsee: pong [06:32] evand: hiya. ubiquity uploaded [06:32] thanks! [06:32] evand: no problem :) === TomB [n=tomb@host86-145-195-250.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thully [n=ubuntu@dpc6746164142.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:40] Hobbsee - ping [06:40] You sent me a contentless ping. This is a contentless pong. Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around. [06:41] thully: hi, what's up? [06:41] hi, I was the one on the mailing list... [06:41] ah! welcome! [06:41] I saw your response and replied - thanks. [06:42] thully: no problem. what were you interested in working on? [06:43] Well, basically I have a few issues with the way the default system is configured... [06:43] I mentioned the total lack of reasonable iPod support as being one thing - meaning sync, transfer, etc [06:44] oh, sec, let me read the new emails on that thread [06:44] OK - no sense going through what I said again. === pygi [n=mario@158-227.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:45] Just please don't flame me - I know I'm just a random user... [06:46] thully: Random flaming is not, in general, the Ubuntu way. === Hobbsee wonders what gtkpod is [06:47] !info gtkpod [06:47] gtkpod: manage songs and playlists on an Apple iPod. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.99.8-0ubuntu3 (feisty), package size 528 kB, installed size 2220 kB [06:47] In Ubuntu the flaming is more specific and focused. [06:48] OK - well, I just experienced it in a response to a question I posted to devel-discuss. Apparently off-list, though I didn't notice that until too late === mayeco [n=mayeco@200.75.192.12] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:48] That's aytypical and I hope you don't think it's always that way. [06:49] wow, gtkpod is small. [06:49] thully: would just including gtkpod solve the problem of the IPOD mess, or would one need to switch to banshee too? [06:49] yes, but it is somewhat hard to use. [06:50] Hence, switching to Banshee - unless the rhythmbox have any plans to fix their iPod issues this century - is preferable === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-244-209-175.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Pici- [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thully [n=ubuntu@dpc6746164142.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:51] fonts you should take up with bryce, and he can repoint you [06:52] 3) wont happen [06:52] OK [06:52] and the last point...you've got the wrong idea. [06:53] you must have missed the specs stuff from UDS - it is public, and people can talk - there's VOIP and such in there [06:53] of course, the powers that be within canonical are going to be picking teh stuff that they want to see the developers that they pay to work on. [06:54] those who are not paid by canonical, however, can do whatever they like. [06:56] OK, though I'm unlikely to travel several hundred miles (much less several thousand) to attend one of these conferences.. [06:56] (or km) [06:56] :) === xtknight [n=xtknight@c-68-43-122-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:57] thully: you've heard of VOIP, i take it? [06:58] yes - voice over IP [06:58] then you'd know that if all goes well, they have that in the conference rooms at UDS, so you can listen/speak with that. [06:59] cool... [06:59] which would not require going in there :) [06:59] yeah - that's good to know... [07:00] I'm still concerned that there is too much going on Ubuntu that is behind closed doors (or mailing lists) - the business of the technical board especially [07:02] youd' really have to take that up with the tech board, but i doubt there's terribly much going thru there [07:02] I guess I see debian-devel with 50 messages a day, and see Ubuntu's equivalents with 2 and wonder what's going on... [07:05] I just picture some closed "core development" mailing list or people in cubicles at canonical doing the main core work internally [07:06] thully: i dnot htink that happens [07:06] but then, i dont work for canonical, so i dont know for sure :P [07:07] OK [07:10] thully: you'd find it's mroe busy towards the beginning of the cycle, and such, i suspect. [07:10] we've passed feature freeze [07:11] yes, I can see that... === thully [n=ubuntu@dpc6746164142.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:12] Just had my connection reset by that darned Peer :) [07:13] mmm.../me goes and murders peer [07:13] Is there any way to make that happen less? It seems to be every 30 min or so when I use IRC [07:14] fix your connection? [07:14] I guess I didn't figure it was broken. I'll be on a better connection in a week or so, though (school connection) [07:15] it's either that or freenode throwing a fit [07:16] This connection is pretty bad, though, compared to most - it's satellite. Makes me want to scream when using Launchpad - HTTPS is ultra slow. Beats dial-up, though... === Pici- [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:16] urgh [07:16] yeah [07:17] next week, I'll be on a 50Mbps connection at school [07:17] i'm jealous. === jetscreamer [n=jetscrea@unaffiliated/jetscreamer] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:19] anyway, I'm curious - why Ubuntu for you? Why not Debian, or some other distro... [07:20] for me? [07:20] i like ubuntu, i like the community [07:20] i like how i can get stuff done [07:20] oh, and i dislike rpm hell. === pygi eats Hobbsee [07:21] hey! i dont wish to be eaten! === Pici- [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:22] rpm hell - exactly why I won't touch anything that doesn't use debs (as far as Linux distros go - I have been mostly OS X for a few years but want back in to the OSS world) [07:23] and being able to touch whatever is good [07:23] without the whole "maintainer lock" thing. [07:23] I see - that's why you don't like Debian, it has the "maintainer" concept [07:24] you asked why i do stuff on ubuntu, rather than another distro [07:24] you never asked which distros i like, or dislike [07:24] yes [07:24] there is a difference === Hobbsee does occasionally get stuff uploaded to debian too [07:25] well, most others have maintainers as well... [07:25] I wasn't saying you disliked Debian, necessarily... === Hobbsee thought dont like == dislike [07:26] but ignoring semantics.... [07:26] I meant "like Ubuntu more than Debian" [07:26] ah, yes, true [07:26] it's cool how we can actually implement a change across the whole distro, without 3 miles of red tape. [07:28] And have an actual supported/stable release every 6 months. [07:28] As for me, I've spent this summer torn between Ubuntu and Debian - I like Ubuntu's focus on usability (especially if one has to - heaven forbid - use a non-free driver), but Debian has seemed more open and I like their stability [07:28] ScottK: that part is nice, too [07:28] ScottK: couldn't sleep :) [07:29] Honestly, I don't mind the Debian release cycle, but I'd like to be able to update major components in between releases without doing a whole system update [07:30] there are the backports [07:30] one day, maybe someone will make a fork of debian that works that way - because there some demand for that. [07:30] i guess you could backport main components but i dont know why you would want to [07:30] Speaking as a Debian developer, I hate the politicing that Debian has fallen to. [07:30] xtknight: not for big components - they say no (thank goodness) [07:30] every 6mo you get a breath of fresh air with all the new gnome and main components [07:31] I like the community, and what Hobbsee said. Doing large changes without having to placate 16 developers and co-ordinate with them. [07:32] StevenK: can you elaborate about your politicing comment? [07:34] I guess my general comment is that - especially in the Debian case - it seems one may want to update just a few components without updating the whole system [07:34] thully, using newer components on a ~stable base will make it unstable, right? is this not what you're after? [07:34] I believe the politicing has been avoided in part, by the fact Ubuntu's project leader is a sabdfl :-) [07:34] thully: It seems that Debian has fallen to using politicing to gain (or conversely, lose) favour with certain maintainers. The whole thing about certain maintainers will say "STFU, I'm not changing my mind, and if you want to force me, GR it." [07:35] thully: Depending on which components we are talking about. [07:35] thully: Debian is a so-called democracy [07:36] StevenK: some developers seem more focused on politicing than actually getting stuff done [07:36] Agreed, but they would be the silent minority === TheMuso thinsk he will chime in here with his views. [07:37] StevenK: you mean... vocal minority? people who get stuff done, would be less vocal [07:37] does politicing means hypocrity? [07:37] supervillain: no [07:37] I appreciate the time saved by using Ubuntu, and finding all my hardware just works. I also like the fact the community is a lot easier to get into, and get involved with. [07:38] I also have a dislike with the Debian new maintainer procedure, in that it takes ages. [07:38] oh yeah, i forgot that one. [07:38] hense why I haven't applied yet. [07:38] Hobbsee: I can see the potential for the lack of "maintainer lock" to cause qa issues [07:38] ubuntu = good parts of debian used to the advantage of the average user [07:38] I guess I was finding the opposite, though I figure I must have just run into some good Debian developers and bad Ubuntu developers (at least for first impressions) [07:39] for the advantage*? [07:39] realist: which is why the bar to MOTU is quite high, to make sure we only get people who can make sane decisions about what they're doing. [07:39] And one of the debian maintainers I work with can be a bit of a pain at times. [07:39] Not that I can qualify that statement... without some empirical evidence... yet [07:39] thully: keep in mind - the ones doing lots of developing arent responding to random maisl on the mailing list. [07:39] TheMuso: That's a terrible thing to say about me. [07:39] TheMuso: :-P [07:40] thully: and some of the ones who are replying as "developers' dont actually have upload rights - nor am i sure how much they actually contribute (as there's sponsorship stuff too) [07:40] StevenK: heh. How dare you falsely accuse me of being a bastard! [07:40] Muahaha === TheMuso should really do the minutes from last night's meeting. [07:41] Hobbsee: I know that, with regards to the Ubuntu list. [07:41] erm... Friday night. [07:41] TheMuso: I've not applied for new maintainer either... because I feel that my application would get swept under the carpet [07:41] realist: I don't feel that, it would just take too long, and since I can do so much in Ubuntu, I'd likely loose interest. [07:41] realist: then again, some of the debian maintainers have no clue WTF they're doing, so cause qa issues themselves, too... [07:41] The debian AM seem far too busy to bother getting them all delt with [07:42] Hobbsee: Aint that the truth. Too many times I have seen crackful packaging files./ [07:42] For example, I think I've seen one or two packages that don't even use debhelper to build. [07:42] TheMuso: that's what I mean though... seems that they aren't serious about attracting new developers [07:43] TheMuso: how recent are these packages? [07:43] TheMuso: do i want to ask what they use to build instead? [07:43] realist: I am in no real position to comment about that, but I am sure people would disagree. [07:43] or would i prefer to live in blissful ignorance? [07:43] Hobbsee: deprecated tools I would assume [07:43] checkinstall :) [07:43] xtknight: that would fail the archive. === supervillain [n=joelbrya@124.104.7.205] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [07:43] tests [07:43] aww [07:43] Hobbsee: Well, standard copy/chmod/cd/mkdir/etc commands [07:44] TheMuso: just from an outsiders perspective [07:44] TheMuso: ahhhh. yes, well, that's probably not surprising [07:44] well when i begun making debs i used to use checkinstall, then modify the control files to look a little more sane. but this was only in the beginning [07:44] TheMuso: seeing as debhelper requires things like copy [07:44] xtknight: DIE [07:44] these were personal debs not anything uploaded :P [07:44] xtknight: ewwww [07:44] If you use checkinstall, you should be using slackware. [07:44] Hobbsee: Actually, copy() is a Perl-ism === Pici- [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RAOF was saved from checkinstall by it's inability to run on amd64 [07:45] Now theres a distro with absolutely shite standards. [07:45] RAOF: checkinstall was more fun when it kept segfaulting [07:45] damned StevenK. [07:45] :) === StevenK feigns innocence. [07:45] StevenK: you cant. your name and key was used for the upload that fixed it. [07:45] I guess Slackware's standards are pretty much "whatever Pat Volkerding wants"... [07:46] thully: Indeed. [07:46] If he says "No GNOME", than no GNOME it is! [07:46] (that is, of course, a real example...) [07:46] Yet he claims that his "package management tools" keep you from dependency hell. [07:47] Hobbsee: I know. I can try ... [07:47] what are those tools - tar zxvf? Pretty much... [07:47] thully: Yes. [07:47] Wrapped in some bash scripts. [07:47] Heh [07:48] Hum. A personal mail asking me to update Gnucash. [07:48] Score! === thully [n=ubuntu@dpc6746164142.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:48] heh [07:48] fscking Peer! [07:48] Actually, I'd like an updated gnucash. [07:48] RAOF: Then update it, dear Henry. :-P [07:48] StevenK: Exactly what I was leading up to :) [07:49] RAOF: Heh [07:49] What I'd like *even more* is for the CBA to offer a non-broken export format from netbank. [07:49] dream on. [07:49] CBA is broken in konqueror, too. [07:50] And this is why I went to Westpac ... [07:50] heh Gnucash [07:50] Even though my mother works for CBA [07:50] people actully use it? [07:50] An export format, I might add, that was never meant as an export format, and has been explicitly disendorsed by its designers. [07:50] But, oh no. We couldn't implement a standard, that would be sane [07:51] RAOF: you want insane, look at EDI [07:51] EDI? [07:51] "instead of implementing a sane communication later for people to submit their content, lets use a 15 year old outdated method" [07:52] The EDI interface, or Electronic Data Interchange, is an interface that will allow an external system such as Echo, Qualifax, CMHC, and the like to pump data into AKAIMS for state and federal reporting [07:52] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/134840 [07:52] Launchpad bug 134840 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should open yelp at first boot after install" [Undecided,New] [07:52] Oh, yeah. [07:52] oh. dear. [07:53] ... [07:53] Heh. That was only five minutes. === thully [n=ubuntu@dpc6746164142.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:53] why in the world would it open yelp after first boot? [07:53] wolfe: it gets better, read teh report [07:53] thully: If you're using a DW6000, it needs to be fixed. [07:53] I'm going to comment on it [07:53] tahts just stupid [07:53] serioulsy, does *anyone* do the guided start tour on XP? [07:53] I'm using an HN7000S [07:54] last i checked, it was quite easy to find yelp [07:54] someone please set it to E_WONTFIX [07:54] thully: Ugh. Send it back. :-) [07:54] wolfe: One of my friends is implementing Tasmania's new driverss licence system, and it's a similar situation. [07:54] Wait. Tasmania have cars? === StevenK hides. [07:55] wolfe: done [07:55] I can't believe the first reply to #134840 is "I agree"... [07:55] StevenK: any known Peer-resetting issues with the HN7000S? [07:55] yeah... [07:56] thully: It actually maybe the service you're using, as opposed to the satellite receiver. [07:56] I know of at least one service over here that does not like long running TCP connections. [07:57] well, I don't have any issues surfing the web... but that doesn't have long-running TCP connections [07:57] (Where long running is something that takes longer than, say an average webpage to load) [07:57] I'll be on my school connection next week, though - no more satellite issues and FAP for me... === thully [n=ubuntu@dpc6746164142.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:58] thully: Oh, I get it. You or someone else complain about it, and it drops out. [07:58] :-P [07:59] For those who don't know, FAP = fair access policy. Basically, if you download more than 425MB in a day or so, they cut your speed dramatically [08:00] 425Mb in a day? I can download that in a few hours. [08:00] I do, actually, when my mirror syncs. [08:00] it really sucks, but less so than 28.8 dial-up - at least there's a period between 3-6am where they let you download as much as you want [08:01] But only if the TCP connections last less than five minutes? [08:01] no - those downloads work fine. I grab Ubuntu ISOs then [08:01] In which case, you need to IRC between 3 and 6 am. :-P [08:03] Anyway, I have to go - it's some ungodly hour here. I'm still undecided regarding Ubuntu vs. Debian (I've heard both sides), but I may be back here in the future - hopefully when I'm on a better connection... [08:03] I dislike ignorant people :/ [08:04] so I posted a reply to bug 134840 :P [08:04] Launchpad bug 134840 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should open yelp at first boot after install" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134840 [08:04] bah === wolfe beats ubotu with a mouse [08:04] StevenK: only 1 hr to go until then :) [08:05] Heh [08:05] Anyway, this channel has had a distinctly different impression than that RTFM flame I got yesterday [08:05] regarding Ubuntu [08:06] thully, i'm a bit confused, what's the end goal here (the debian vs ubuntu stuff)? [08:06] thully: oh, and ubuntu has a code of conduct, and i'm not sure about debian. [08:06] s/bit confused/confused [08:06] I guess I'm looking to help out with/develop/package/test a distribution, and I'm unsure whether to do debian or Ubuntu [08:07] bear in mind though - this is a weekend - so we're all less on topic today [08:07] flamers can see the door after a /kb hits them going out ;) [08:07] thully, maybe you want to start coding the projects you mentioned on ubuntu-devel? or get together a group to get them done? : ) [08:08] I'm currently undecided about which distro to invest time in also [08:08] Hobbsee: Not really. [08:08] yes, maybe... [08:08] realist: invest time in Ubuntu ;) [08:09] I like that Ubuntu makes it easy to install things even if you need (HORROR) a non-free driver [08:09] I'm actually leaning towards Debian... since that's the mother distro :-) [08:09] realist: well it depends wether you want to work on the user side or the system side [08:09] I figure my work could filter to Ubuntu anyway [08:09] i think your improvements are better suited to desktop/avg. users so ubuntu makes more sense.. [08:10] realist: indeed. and that's why i dont think it's an either/or thing. [08:10] realist: incidently, a lot of the devs contribute to both directly [08:10] people in debian might still want to use /dev/this instead of have a gui to sync their ipod. [08:10] realist: if you want to perfect the user xp, ubuntu. I fyou want to fix up the system side(apache, rdb,s, etc), debian [08:10] wolfe: for the latter half, push it to debian, and then make sure it gets back to ubuntu too [08:10] seeing as bits are ubuntu specific as well [08:11] yeah [08:11] Working on fixing bug #1 is an interest of mine, and I'm afraid Debian is more concerned with other things [08:11] Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 [08:11] What if I wanted to perfect the user experience for sysadmins? [08:11] realist: then do it in boht distros [08:11] realist: sysadmin with users or dcs? [08:11] DCs [08:11] realist: assuming that debian will accept your patches. [08:12] realist: it wouldnt be hard to get involved with the ubuntu server team, for one thing === BenC_ [n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:12] Well, I'm a UNIX admin in a software dev team by occupation [08:13] Hobbsee: thats where I'd end up, if I were to contribute === wolfe uses ubuntu on plenty of his servers.. [08:13] right [08:13] though at DCs, I do tend to use FreeBSD :) [08:15] yeah, I guess I see Ubuntu as the distro more suited towards me - I've just got this lingering fear that users like me can't do much of anything outside the "universe" [08:15] We use mostly OpenBSD [08:15] thully: well, for upload rights, it's universe first. [08:15] thully: but better to contact the devs who are working on the bits that you'r einterested in - they're good at accepting good patches. [08:16] OpenBSD++ [08:16] funny when OpenBSD wrote in the random memory allocation, then everyone else wanted it [08:16] Vista has it now :) [08:17] They've got encrypted swap by default now too [08:17] And when you have to communicate with Theo, I'll laugh. [08:18] Theo is fine with me :) [08:18] wolfe: ditto [08:18] don't be a dumbass or say something stupid and you'll be fine. [08:18] Or do *anything* that makes him think less of you. I've read some of his commit messages. [08:18] His abrasive nature is slightly exagerated [08:19] Actually, the BSD community is the reason I don't use it. [08:19] ... [08:19] StevenK: there is nothign wrong with the BSD community [08:19] #linux on efnet has a hostile environment which tops the BSD community [08:19] The whole of EFNet can go jump. [08:19] when I first looked at Linux, it was indeed the hostile community. [08:19] efnet. enough said [08:20] the bsd channels on efnet were perfectly okay ;) [08:20] Dianora can be a bitch sometimes :) [08:20] she is however, a good person [08:24] the community (and in particular the developers) is actually what it comes down to for me. I've actually had good experiences with Debian in that regard. Kind of the opposite of what everyone says... [08:25] gotta log off now - bye... [08:39] hear that sound? The sound my of grammar flying out the door. :( I need to focus instead of thinking while writing comments :) [08:44] XD oh, I just thought of the comment I made to the bug. I referred to ADA making my whole comment sound like people who need Yelp must be disabled. X) [08:57] Yawn. 2 am. Night all [08:57] Thx Hobbsee! === mayeco [n=mayeco@200.75.192.12] has joined #ubuntu-devel === holycow [n=start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zic [n=Zic@Final-Fantasy.FF-IRC.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dsas [n=dean@ubuntu/member/dsas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C4A53D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === coNP [n=conp@ubuntu/member/coNP] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=viper@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Pici-_ [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-138-60.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Shely [n=Sea@60.20.52.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rulus 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PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.student.PriceChild] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jeffferrari [n=jeff@ppp121-44-47-75.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi2g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jeffferrari [n=jeff@ppp121-44-47-75.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Martinp23 [n=martinp2@78.32.24.164] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180073214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi1g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stdin [i=stdin@pdpc/supporter/active/stdin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi2g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Pricey [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.student.PriceChild] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi3g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vincechen [n=vince419@61.146.11.198] has joined #ubuntu-devel === norsetto [n=norsetto@host186-223-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MacSlow [n=mirco@unaffiliated/macslow] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-102-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Utnubu [n=ubuntu@ip79.134.1511H-CUD12K-03.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:27] hi all [03:28] Is it a bug or feature that gparted mount all hard disk devices after start and partition operations? === freeflyi1g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:29] Isn't it dangerous? [03:30] it doesn't [03:31] gnome-volume-manager does [03:31] This makes sense but if I change partition or something like that it shouldn't be mounted. === hggdh [n=hggdh@pool-71-170-39-244.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:32] I think gparted stops before doing something but how knows :) [03:32] *who [03:32] yea, I think its clever enough not to play with mounted stuff === coNP [n=conp@ubuntu/member/coNP] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi2g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@18-82.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi1g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflyi3g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Utnubu [n=ubuntu@ip79.134.1511H-CUD12K-03.ish.de] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === freeflyi2g [n=freeflyi@123.116.96.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bluekuja [n=andrea@ubuntu/member/bluekuja] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rbrunhuber [n=rbrunhub@p549745DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === frenkel [n=frank@104pc235.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tehk [n=tehk@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === frenkel [n=frank@104pc235.sshunet.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === alex-weej [n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === andrea-bs [n=andrea@host239-92-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:25] What are the differences between python-central and python-support? === alex-weej [n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@S0106000b6a5631f9.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac__ [n=asac@d107195.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pygi [n=mario@158-227.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck [n=tck@194.125.117.24] has joined #ubuntu-devel === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.student.PriceChild] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hggdh [n=hggdh@pool-71-170-39-244.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bye!"] === Pici [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson === rbrunhuber [n=rbrunhub@p549745DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === andrea-bs [n=andrea@host239-92-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === jdstrand [n=james@mail.strandboge.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck_ [n=tck@78.16.31.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks_ [n=ivoks@33-120.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === eggauah [n=daniel@201.82.128.60] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=viper@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck_ [n=tck@78.16.31.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@81.185.183.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@pD950A054.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xtknight [n=xtknight@c-68-43-122-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:35] can someone take a look at Bug 134911 ? what is the rationale for the current source code of the Screen Resolution applet? [06:36] Launchpad bug 134911 in gnome-control-center "[gutsy] Screen resolutions other than current are not listed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134911 === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tck_ [n=tck@78.16.31.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Traxer is now known as Traxer|on === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Part"] === Traxer|on is now known as Traxer === pbn [i=pbn@wopr.geekshells.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vianaweb [n=urban@201-11-74-14.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tehk [n=tehk@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pbn [i=pbn@wopr.geekshells.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mayeco [n=mayeco@200.75.192.12] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alex-weej [n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pygi [n=mario@158-227.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180073214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alex-weej [n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dsas [n=dean@ubuntu/member/dsas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kent [n=kent@80.251.192.4] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anderbubble [n=janderso@c-24-15-96-229.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:43] CUPS is missing the firmeware for the (foomatic-supported) HP LaserJet 1000. The firmware file is expected to be at /usr/share/foo2zjs/firmware/sihp1000.dl, and when I manually downloaded it (from the foomatic website) and placed it there, it worked immediately. === Havis [n=Havis@adsl-dyn229.91-127-12.t-com.sk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anderbubble [n=janderso@c-24-15-96-229.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Skiessi [n=qwe@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe88fb00-133.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tehk [n=tehk@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pygi [n=mario@158-227.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aman [i=aman@61.16.226.43] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:36] hi [08:36] everyone [08:36] plz [08:36] help === cr3 [n=cr3@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Utnubu [n=utnubu@ip79.134.1511H-CUD12K-03.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:39] hi all [08:40] Does anyone know why powernowd is still used? Why not using only the kernel governors? [08:40] hi Utnubu [08:40] Powernowd is only used on hardware where ondemand doesn't work [08:40] aman: read topic, then if your request for help is on topic, directly ask, don't wait for someone to tell you that you can speak :) [08:41] mjg59: But it still uses cpu ticks even if ondemand is enabled. But thanks for answer. Backwards compatibility is important. [08:41] stgraber sir i want to setup an internet connection on ubuntu 7.04 [08:42] stgraber but cant do so [08:42] stgraber i have an direct internet broadband [08:42] stgraber no router or modem is involved [08:43] stgraber direct wire connection into lan card [08:43] stgraber its working fine in windows [08:44] aman: that's support question, so you'd better join #ubuntu (anyway, check that you see your NIC with ifconfig, if no maybe it's just unsuported) [08:44] Utnubu: No, it's not running at all if ondemand is used === aman [i=aman@61.16.226.43] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [08:44] If ondemand can be enabled, the init script never runs powernowd [08:46] hello, I'm sure someone in here might be able to calrify something for me, I'm finishing this week's UWN, and there is a story on the whole xserver 1.4 delay, Xorg 7.3 has been included in gutsy though, right? [08:46] X Window System Version 1.3.0 [08:46] Release Date: 19 April 2007 [08:47] beuno: that's what's installed on my Gutsy box [08:47] so it's just xserver which is delayed, right? === beuno is trying to make sense of all the stories floating around [08:50] No, we don't have X.org 7.3 [08:50] We have 1.3 of the server, which was an intermediate release [08:50] Xorg 7.3 will include 1.4 of the server === pupi120290 [n=philipp@dslb-088-068-063-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:51] hello. i created a gtk::window and added a vbox to it. the vbox contains a toolbar and a scrolled window. the toolbar always covers half of the window. how can i fix that [08:51] it should look like the toolbars in all other apps [08:51] PS: im using gtkmm [08:51] mjg59: great, that clears it up a bit, thanks === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:51] pupi120290: This channel is for discussion of development of Ubuntu, not development using Ubuntu === andrea-bs [n=andrea@host239-92-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:52] ok then where is the channel for discussion of development using ubuntu? [08:52] I've a problem with bzr: [08:52] mjg59: You can easily check it with Gutsy and powertop [08:52] it runs [08:52] bzr commit [08:52] bzr: ERROR: The file id __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3 is not present in the tree [08:52] ls -aR | grep __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3 [08:52] __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3.kndx [08:52] __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3.knit [08:53] andrea-bs: you might want to ask in #bzr instead [08:53]