[12:39] http://www.break.com/index/a-real-ninja-turtle.html [12:39] haha [12:39] d'oh, wrong channel [12:39] oh well, enjoy, it is quite funny === ajmitch worries about nixternal [12:41] haha, I have never really looked at this site, there is some really funny things === norsetto will not be tempted on the evil side ...say no to flash [12:46] http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=283756 [12:46] there you go, no flash, straight picture [12:46] the new pony award? [12:47] oh my === ajmitch eagerly awaits the next round of golden ponies [12:48] hmm, yeah === ajmitch is also eagerly awaiting the next 'behind motu' === mok0 [n=mok@56347b3e.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:50] yeah, yeah [12:50] that and the "behind *" stuff that has been quiet again [12:50] damn, ajmitch beat me to it [12:50] it's only been 3 months :) [12:50] am i still the last behind motu? [12:50] wow. [12:50] superm1: yep [12:50] well, I don't know if people cared too much about it [12:50] we've all been holding our breath since then [12:51] heh [12:51] doubtful === ajmitch is pretty blue [12:51] I mean, there interesting little tidbits [12:51] but it's hard to get a decent interview out of them [12:51] and then there's Ubuntu Backstage [12:51] where I'm supposed to be putting Behind MOTU stuff [12:52] LaserJock: I read all of the "behind *" stuff for all the projects that have them..it is cool getting a glimpse into the people who you work with and what not online and haven't gotten to meet just yet [12:53] only MOTU I have met so far is superm1 [12:53] ok fine [12:53] only MOTUs i've met are dholbach, nixternal and keescook :) [12:53] you got me [12:53] let's see, I've met quite a number [12:54] ajmitch of course === ajmitch has met 1 or 2 [12:55] Hey there. Do we have any apt gods online right now? === ajmitch points at LaserJock === superm1 points at LaserJock too. [12:55] nixternal, your turn [12:55] :) [12:55] lol. LaserJock got owned === nixternal points at superm1 and ajmitch [12:55] ;p === nixternal runs away [12:56] hah [12:56] lol [12:56] Anyhoo.... [12:56] hehe [12:56] I'm trying to apt-get the FAI sources from Etch. did the whole apt-key and sources.list thing, but it's giving me headaches [12:56] FAI on Feisty is.... suboptimal. [12:56] I'm looking to fix it, and hopefully submit it back [12:57] for FAI, you want to talk to siretart if he's around [12:57] lol. how do you send private tells here? ;) [12:58] alvinc, you need to identify first === norsetto calls it a day [12:58] i are n00b. how do i do that? ;) [12:59] g'night ppl [12:59] or you could send an email :) [12:59] nod. if i knew how to get his e-mail addy. :) [01:00] search him up on launchpad :) === ajmitch would guess he's either sleeping or hacking [01:01] or sleep-hacking [01:01] bigon: I'm here now [01:01] RAOF: the dropped patch has been applied upstream === beuno [n=beuno@44-111-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch should try & renew his core-dev membership one day [01:04] ajmitch: Oh so you are thinking of sticking around now [01:04] :p [01:04] TheMuso: maybe [01:05] thanks you guys, by the way. i've send siretart an e-mail on his registered addy === jml [n=jml@ppp121-44-221-92.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:05] we'll see [01:05] bigon: Cool. You probably want to mention that in the changelog :) [01:05] bah. relay access denied from gmail to his e-mail addy. *sigh* [01:06] ajmitch: You know you want to. [01:06] TheMuso: I don't really know that, actually [01:08] ajmitch: Of course you do. === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-095-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Kmos_ [n=gothicx@249-78.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@ppp121-44-221-92.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:23] I need someone to check and advocate a very simple package I have sent to REVU. It's already checked by an other MOTU [01:23] but I need two advocates [01:23] anybody up for it? === TheMuso has already given his. === jrib [n=jrib@upstream/dev/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-motu === javier_galicia [n=Javier@189.130.233.106] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ytojack [n=ytojack@59.35.246.248] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Pumpernickel [n=Pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:40] TheMuso, [01:40] nobody wants to do the good action of the day ;) [01:45] Probably everybody is busy. === ajmitch is busy at work [01:46] ajmitch, =) hello [01:46] I will wait half an hour or so === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:46] after that a mail to the mailing list will be the better option [01:46] jsgotangco, heyyy [01:46] hello luisbg [01:46] hi [01:46] jsgotangco: happy birthday [01:47] jsgotangco, you a motu? happy birthday!!! === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Ng [n=cmsj@mairukipa.tenshu.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === macd [n=d@cl-151.ewr-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === geser [i=mb@ubuntu/member/geser] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF [n=chris@123-243-65-41.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === SteveA [n=steve@canonical/launchpad/SteveA] has joined #ubuntu-motu === \sh_away [n=nnsherma@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === moquist [n=moquist@pool-70-20-46-60.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === broonie [i=broonie@cassiel.sirena.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sladen [i=paul@193.28.45.41] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Flannel [n=flannel@76.176.22.229] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:47] heh thanks [01:47] no im not im a lurker here [01:47] happy birthday jsgotangco! [01:47] he is far above such things [01:47] 17:30:32 [ highvolta] if jsgotangco pops up, remember to wish him happy birthday [01:48] jsgotangco: that is from #ubuntu-devel [01:48] heh [01:48] that's facebook for ya [01:48] hehe === Ng [n=cmsj@mairukipa.tenshu.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:48] jsgotangco: you talk to your parents after our tornadic week last week? === justinwray [n=justinwr@c-68-34-224-91.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:48] your family rather...forgot they are all still around here [01:48] Hey jsgotangco. Happy birthday. [01:48] yes [01:49] i actually have a fever today [01:49] well recovering but still feverish [01:49] smokin'! :) [01:50] nixternal, you a motu? === nixternal hides [01:51] what's a motu? [01:51] ;p [01:51] luisbg: what's up? [01:52] nixternal, I need some checking of a package I sent to REVU [01:52] it's already checked and advocated by TheMuso [01:52] but I need two [01:52] to have a "pass" [01:53] link me [01:53] or tell me the package name [01:53] http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=79 [01:53] it's a very simple package === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:00] nixternal, any problems? [02:03] building it now [02:04] =) [02:04] thanks a lot === khermans [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-cdc0d0c210566d3a] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Paddy_EIRE is away: Away [02:05] shouldn't there be a COPYING file in the main directory? [02:05] !away | Paddy_EIRE [02:05] Paddy_EIRE: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away " to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines [02:06] nixternal: No. I got a package like that one through into the archive without one. [02:06] alrighty then, I will go ahead and upload it then === Acksys [n=acksys@74.255.74.109] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Acksys [n=acksys@74.255.74.109] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:07] nixternal, yeeiii :) [02:07] uploaded :) [02:07] nixternal: all the package does is set up settings. [02:08] There is no actual program in it. [02:08] no upstream [02:08] nixternal, thanks again [02:08] ya, I noticed nothing but .directory files [02:08] TheMuso, to you too [02:08] no problem luisbg, good job! [02:08] luisbg: Yes, but thats not the reason. If you look at ubuntustudio-look/icon-theme etc, they have COPYING files, for a reason. [02:09] ahhh I see [02:09] now universe admins will have to look at it and upload it before freeze [02:10] ya, shouldn't icon packages contain the SVGs? I have noticed a couple of icon packages w/o svgs, and png is far from source [02:10] luisbg: Not universe admins, archive admins. [02:10] nixternal: As far as I am aware, ubuntustudio's do, otherwise they wouldn't have got in. [02:10] TheMuso, oops sorry [02:10] I have to go through my logs and see the icon packages I looked at [02:11] nixternal: Did you archive ubuntustudio-menu on revu? If not, I'll do it. [02:11] yes [02:11] ok [02:11] =) [02:13] anything more you guys need from me tonight [02:13] 1:13 am here === yanndinendal [n=Yann@dyn-88-122-149-65.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:14] luisbg: No. [02:14] Thanks for your work. [02:15] =) [02:15] a pleasure [02:17] If you guys feel like reviewing another one, I've got http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=119 waiting there... [02:23] mok0: I will in a bit. [02:23] TheMuso: Great === _jason [n=jrib@upstream/dev/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Frogzoo [n=Frogzoo@202.155.165.25] has joined #ubuntu-motu === astro76 [n=james@unaffiliated/astro76] has joined #ubuntu-motu === goedson [n=goedson@BHE200150050180.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@ppp108-61.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === avoine [n=avoine@210.244-ppp.3menatwork.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:56] [02:57] can any update to any package for gutsy universe be uploaded o is it too late ? [02:58] i think uvf got moved to this coming thursday [02:59] this is because when I install python-psycopg2 pulls python2.4 even when python 2.5 is installed [03:00] so I'm searching why this happens and trying to fix it [03:01] it needs egenix-mx-base and the package name is python2.4-egenix-mxtools [03:02] lionel: If its not a new upstream version, any bugfixes can be uploaded without approval at this point. [03:02] python-egenix-mxtools pulls python 2.4 [03:02] s/lionel/leonel [03:02] thanks TheMuso [03:02] sn9: And What makes you say that? [03:03] leonel: Welcome. [03:03] it was said in this channel recently [03:03] in the /topic [03:03] sn9: Got a reference? If so, it would have been officially announced, which it hasn't been. [03:04] What is in the topic is for new package freeze, which is different to UVF. [03:04] sn9: BTW, has that mplayer bug you talked about recently been addressed? [03:04] no [03:04] ok [03:04] but I can't find where to change [03:05] and i would have thought new package freeze would come before uvf [03:05] found control:XB-Python-Version : ${python:Versions} [03:05] leonel: I'm in the middle of something atm, but I'll probably get a chance to look in a bit. [03:05] but where can I see where to change that version [03:05] TheMuso: thanks no problemo [03:06] sn9: No, its the other way round. [03:06] New packages aren't likely to break the archive, whereas new upstream versions of packages are. [03:06] ok [03:06] leonel: You're trying to change what version of python a package is built aganst? [03:07] RAOF: egenix-mx-base pulls python 2.4 even when python 2.5 is installe [03:07] d [03:07] leonel: In the archive right now? [03:08] yes [03:08] RAOF: this in Gutsy [03:08] there ought to be both egenix-mx-base-py25 and exgenix-mx-base-py24 === superm1 [n=superm1@12-216-45-174.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch suspects that there's a dependency there that shouldn't have been added [03:11] how's this for a new package? it's already debianized: http://omnibook.sf.net [03:12] ajmitch: that depends whether or not it contains an extension module [03:13] The control file seems both complex and apparently correct. === zul [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mok0 repeats there ought to be versions for both py25 and py24 with different package names === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF *thought* pycentral dealt with that, but is checking. [03:16] mok0: I'm going to leave a comment on revu with more comments, but not all the source files in kaksi have copyright statements. [03:16] mok0: sorry, we moved away from that model a year or so ago [03:16] TheMuso: I know. I contacted upstream a month ago, but havent heard [03:16] evening [03:17] hello zul [03:17] TheMuso: Should I repackage tarball? [03:17] mok0: Well this won't pass unless its fixed. [03:18] TheMuso: It's a simple fix, but upstream is silent. I could do it an repackage [03:18] mok0: Anyway, comments on revu. [03:18] TheMuso: Thx a lot! [03:18] mok0: But you don't know when they were written etc. === zul_ [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:19] TheMuso: I didn't notice variation in copyright year, did you? [03:20] mok0: I didn't have a detailed look, but I still think just adding it without upstream's knowledge/permission is not right. [03:20] TheMuso: OK. I guess I'll have to pester them some more. === gouki_ [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:24] TheMuso: Re: the rules file, you mean to delete the acknowledgement comment= [03:24] s/=/?/ [03:24] mok0: yes [03:27] Well g'night ppl! === mok0 [n=mok@56347b3e.rev.stofanet.dk] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Frogzoo [n=Frogzoo@202.155.165.25] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Paddy_EIRE [n=patrick@89.240.243.205] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:31] Well, that's wierd. [03:31] RAOF: ? [03:31] let me guess, you rebuilt & it had the correct dependencies? [03:33] ajmitch: No. I rebuilt it, and something's adding python2.4 & python2.5 dependencies. [03:33] But the control & rules files *look* ok, at least at the level of scrutiny I gave them. [03:33] it is interesting, isn't it? [03:34] Yes. === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:34] Anyway, I've got marking to do, which this has been a welcome, but guilty, diversion from :) [03:34] Hah [03:34] RAOF: Just give them all zero? [03:35] sounds fair [03:35] or pick a number between 0 & 100, and fit a bell curve around that [03:35] heh [03:38] Could someone please explain the details of the following to me?: What is the policy and process regarding updates to universe packages post-release, particularly for security fixes? [03:40] ajmitch: Hah [03:40] tonyyarusso: they get done if someone cares [03:41] tonyyarusso: Prepare a debdiff, with the release set to -security, document the changes well in the changelog, mentioning any CVE numbers and/or bug numbers and then ask keescook, or pitti to look at it. [03:41] That is, presuming you want to do it. :-) [03:41] of course he wants to do it, he asked :) [03:42] StevenK: That sounds like what I need to know. However, does debdiff use just patches or can you have a changed .orig.tar.gz to use? (not familiar with debdiff yet) [03:42] Make the changes as little as possible. I wouldn't touch the .orig [03:42] Okay. [03:43] tonyyarusso: And debdiff is your friend. === tonyyarusso makes mental note to try it soon === Jazzva [n=sasa@cable-89-216-132-153.dynamic.sbb.co.yu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tgm4883_laptop [n=tgm4883@c-67-160-174-176.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Paddy_EIRE [n=patrick@89.240.243.205] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pkh [n=pkh@138.77.136.84] has joined #ubuntu-motu === kkubasik [n=kkubasik@pool-71-178-242-97.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === kkubasik [n=kkubasik@pool-71-178-242-97.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF plugs in his laptop. Building Xgl repeadedly is an excellent way to chew though battery life. [04:53] oh yeah? try gcc [04:53] and gibc [04:53] *glibc === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:00] sn9: So you mean, "Run Gentoo" ? :-P [05:00] hehe [05:01] i mean use ubuntu as a dev environment for embedded systems [05:04] Dear Telemarketer. If I say I'm not interested, this is a sign for you get off the phone and to stop trying sell me stuff. No Love, Steve [05:05] Heh. [05:05] RAOF: Are you ignoring the marking again? :-) [05:05] StevenK: Try bartering with them. [05:06] Dear Telstra. No, I'm not going to join your network. Not unless you pay out my existing contract, and provide me with an iPhone. [05:06] StevenK: Marking has been done. Really :) [05:06] "Long-distance telephone eh? I'll swap you a microwave and some old shoes." [05:06] Some :) [05:06] RAOF: I wouldn't pick you being a Steve Jobs fanboy. :-P [05:07] ajmitch: Are you around by any chance? [05:07] StevenK: Eh, it looks cool. Also, macs make shiny hardware :) === tonyyarusso is still having some trouble understanding all of what's involved for this lintian: outdated-autotools-helper-file error) [05:08] Just sadly not at the particular level that I want my laptop to be [05:08] RAOF: That is to say, cheap? :-) [05:08] get an openmoko fic neo1973 then [05:08] tonyyarusso: You can check out xserver-xgl :). [05:08] sn9: That would indeed be cooler. [05:08] RAOF: I wouldn't really understand what I'm looking for though...I'd really appreciate someone taking a few moments to explain it if possible. [05:09] or, if you're a kubuntu person, qtopia greenphone [05:09] tonyyarusso: I'll hunt down a weblink... [05:09] awesome [05:09] "No, you can't call me. I'm reflashing my phone. Yes, I'm wearing pants, why do you ask?" [05:09] tonyyarusso: no [05:09] ajmitch: Ok ;) [05:10] tonyyarusso: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~raof/xserver-xgl/ubuntu-raof/annotate/chalserogers%40gmail.com-20070815112605-k2y3axkh22au4rdu?file_id=rules-20070726235547-4x7rjjba8swpxwgr-8 [05:10] Wow. That was a little bit longer than I was expecting :) [05:11] tonyyarusso: You're after the clean: target - specifically the "config.sub" & .guess bit. [05:11] Hah. tinyurl FTW [05:11] pfft. you guys dont know what a *long* url is :P [05:12] RAOF: Personally, I find copying it in clean to be disquieting. clean is supposed to undo what build did, not copy stuff from the host system. [05:13] i once pasted an internal google video url to the avi representation === apachelogger_ [n=me@N959P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:13] it took up half a page [05:13] sn9, oh i hate those. why does google do that *smacks head [05:13] RAOF: Okay, so if I understand that correctly, it says something along the lines of, "if in the process of cleaning you find any files named config.guess or config.sub, replace them with the version in /usr/share supplied by the autotools-dev package from the build-deps", and I should be able to directly copy-paste that code into another package. Is that right? [05:13] tonyyarusso: Right. [05:14] Sweet - I kinda understood a bash line! [05:14] ifneq "$(wildcard /usr/share/misc/config.sub)" "" [05:14] That's make, not bash [05:14] oh [05:14] Well, I kinda understood _something_, somehow [05:14] if [ -f /usr/share/misc/config.sub ] ; then [05:15] That's shell. :-) [05:15] StevenK: So your personal preference would be to have the same code, but in the build rule? [05:15] StevenK: You'd prefer it in configure? [05:15] RAOF: Right. === StevenK idly notes he is just humoring his lunch by eating it and stops. === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tonyyarusso can't find a configure rule [05:18] make one :) [05:19] nixternal: Would I just put that line in it, and how would I reference to run it? (debian/rules is my weaker point here, so try to bear with me) [05:19] what are you trying to configure? [05:19] It's KompoZer, a Mozilla-derived product. === mohammad [n=mohammad@CPE080046dc2143-CM0011aea585d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:19] ahh, that is the app replacing nvu until someone picks it back up right? [05:20] nixternal: correct [05:20] are you using cdbs? [05:21] No, debhelper. [05:22] StevenK: Hm. But if you do it in configure, not clean, you'll end up with the lintian error tonyyarusso was getting originally, right? [05:22] you have a line in rules like 'include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk'? [05:23] nixternal: grep include rules returns no results [05:23] grep debhelper just gives "# Sample debian/rules that uses debhelper." [05:23] ahh, OK [05:23] how do you need to run configure? [05:23] should debian/*.manpages contain ALL man pages in debian/manpages? [05:24] shouldn't*, i suppose since i found a package (hugin) where this is not the case [05:24] nixternal: I don't know. [05:25] you can just run the configure stuff if need be under build-stamp: [05:25] bbiaf...need to take the dog out [05:26] Oh, ok. build-stamp I have. [05:26] RAOF: but you think anything other than rules will still give the lintian error after it's fixed? (ie, a lintian bug or something?) === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-060-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === superm1_ [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:35] what's the difference between a manual ending in .1 and .2, .7, etc? [05:36] lol never mind should have looked at the manual for man, right there is a big table :( [05:36] haha [05:41] why are games not considered a executable [05:41] kinda strange === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:43] linus associated executables with troubles and compilation errors, and games with fun? i dunno [05:45] I daresay it's a unix-ism, as opposed to a Linux thing === StevenK tries to get motivated enough to study for an exam he is sitting in 4 hours [05:46] yea because i doubt linus had a hand in designing -man- or much for that matter outside the kernel and or a gnome patch or two [05:47] imbrandon: Um? Git? [05:47] heh ok ok, you win , but still not man [05:47] ;) [05:48] he started the kernel of the most popular unix desktop OS today, but that's it, nothing more. darn lazy bastard :P [05:48] well git probably consists of 25% of the man pages by sheer weight of binaries [05:48] lol [05:48] Bwahahaha === StevenK needs to look at git. [05:49] bzr-import-git is all i need ( no idea if it even exists ) [05:49] I was looking at importing our (6Gb) CVS repository into bzr at $WORK [05:50] I managed to shoehorn it into SVN. It turns out that SVN *really* doesn't like a directory with >15,000 entries. === ytojack [n=ytojack@59.35.246.248] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:52] shouldn't debian/*.manpages contain ALL man pages in debian/manpages/*? === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ScottLij [n=scott@24-180-196-49.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:03] imbrandon: Strangely, I don't think bzr git-import *does* exist. === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff19c100-129.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml_ [n=jml@ppp121-44-221-92.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml_ [n=jml@ppp121-44-221-92.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:25] c [06:25] ugh [06:26] ooF? [06:27] tonyyarusso: long story [06:27] TheMuso: aren't they all? [06:27] heh === Frogzoo [n=Frogzoo@202.155.165.25] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD- [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD- is now known as RobinD === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@216.145.101.109] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@216.145.101.109] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-060-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@216.145.101.109] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Paddy_EIRE [n=patrick@89.240.243.205] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | REVU is back up on a new box at the same url. | Gutsy new package freeze is 30 August === Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by ScottK at Mon Aug 27 07:40:02 2007 === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD_ [n=Robin@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD_ [n=Robin@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Ex-Chat"] === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:58] Amaranth: Got a minute to discuss Xgl? [06:58] RAOF: maybe [07:00] I'm just wondering whether I should stop messing with session files and just stick a script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d to start & use Xgl all the time. [07:01] Because rather a lot of stuff gets started automatically by Xsession before a session script can mess with it. [07:01] This manifests most annoyingly by seahorse being unable to display a passphrase entry dialog. [07:01] And hence GPG dying. === macd [n=d@cl-151.ewr-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:03] Whereas I *could* stick a script in Xsession.d to startup Xgl & set DISPLAY and then let the rest of the session do it's thing on the right server. [07:04] With the small downside that you'd need to uninstall Xgl to stop using it :) [07:07] Amaranth: So basically I'm wondering how annoying it would be to have an always- [07:07] on xgl [07:08] xgl should just die [07:08] Not until nvidia get their crap together. [07:08] it can't work right -- by design [07:09] Please expound [07:09] i spent a couple of weeks trying to get it to work with fglrx [07:09] sn9: You're welcome to make Glucose work, of course :) [07:10] sn9: Should be easy. [07:10] eventually, i gave up and settled for no tv-out with the free driver and aiglx [07:10] Also, that's hardly broken by design :) [07:11] anything requiring xgl is by definition broken by design, like fglrx [07:11] There's nothing that requires Xgl. [07:11] Also, that's rather different from 'xgl is broken by design' ;) [07:11] fglrx does, if you want beryl/compiz [07:12] So, yes, Xgl provides features that fglrx doesn't. [07:13] xgl is designed such that you cannot run any kind of window manager with it, and that's brokenness [07:13] That is 100% untrue. [07:13] Xgl is designed to be a faster X server than Xorg. [07:13] Faster/easier to write drivers for. [07:13] fglrx requires xgl for beryl/compiz, ergo fglrx is also broken [07:14] sn9: The fact that the fglrx driver has bugs which make performance under Xgl suck without a composite manager is not Xgl's fault :) [07:14] But I'm not going to argue against the thesis "fglrx is crap" ;) [07:15] It's worse than even the nvidia drivers. [07:15] why would anyone run xgl without compositing? what other reason could there be to run xgl than beryl/compiz? [07:15] To have an OpenGL accelerated X server? [07:16] opengl is slower than no opengl [07:16] Depends on the drivers. [07:16] Also, to allow people to *only* write 3d drivers, and get full 2d accel for free. [07:17] Anyway, I seem to have lost the Amaranth :) [07:17] when i see glxgears not stall, i'll believe it's a driver issue [07:18] glxgears is not a benchmark? [07:18] i mean visually [07:18] So turn on Vsync. [07:18] not the crap numbers it puts out === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff19c100-129.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:19] so far, i've seen xgl slow things down with the following drivers: ati, nvidia, fglrx, savage === RAOF is surprised you can use Xgl on the savage drivers. [07:21] RAOF: hi again :) [07:21] wow "cc1plus" (c++ compiler) taking around 300M of ram? isnt this extreme for everything, or normal depending on the pkg? [07:21] it was using libmesa rendering, but xgl made it even slower [07:21] Amaranth: So, there's some backscroll way up there ) [07:21] was at 550M at one point [07:21] xtknight: *Only* 300MB of ram? [07:21] btw, gutsy is supposed to provide working dri for savage, but i have yet to try it [07:22] xtknight: The C++ template system is turing complete. It is famous for using a huge amount of ram & time to compile. [07:22] RAOF: sounds great [07:22] ah well i guess that other 2g im ordering this week will come in handy [07:22] i was wondering what was up with seahorse :) [07:22] xtknight: Also, last time I tried to build Azureus, gcj would use 1Gb of ram + 4GB of swap, then OOM :) [07:22] RAOF, ridiculous [07:23] RAOF, i never had MSVC use anywhere near this [07:23] azureus can use gcj now? [07:23] sn9: it's accelerated indirect rendering [07:23] sn9: azureus in the archive uses gcj [07:24] azureus is in the archive now? [07:24] Amaranth: The other option is to just work around it, by basically unsetting GPG_AGENT_INFO & running seahorse-agent again. [07:24] since feisty [07:24] RAOF: eh, too many hacks === sn9 did not notice [07:24] RAOF: just make it the X server that even gdm works [07:24] that makes login smoother too === jussi01 [n=jussi@dyn3-82-128-184-60.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:24] or is that not what you meant? [07:24] Amaranth: That's harder, and not what I meant :) [07:24] err, even gdm uses === Frogzoo [n=Frogzoo@202.155.165.25] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:25] ah, you mean just making it start before the other stuff in Xsession.d [07:25] Yes. === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [07:25] sounds good === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:25] less complicated for users too [07:25] literally just install and go [07:25] True. No extra sessions, installing Xgl makes it just work. === mrigns [n=mrigns@ACB37DBB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:27]