jordisoren: nod. I'll poke at that.12:37
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halcyonCorsairhi, can anyone tell me how limits are dealt with in ubuntu/debian? (ie. limits.conf?)01:35
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: I don't have that file? Is that something that exisits in another distribution?01:46
ajmitchpschulz01: you probably do have it, at /etc/security/limits.conf01:47
pschulz01ajmitch: Ta.01:47
halcyonCorsairajmitch: all i really want to do is increase the maximum number of open files, whats the best wat to do that?01:47
ajmitchyou may be hitting a kernel limit as well01:49
ajmitchthough unlikely01:49
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: You are 'probably' looking for something like what is set in /proc/sys/fs/file-max01:49
ajmitchpschulz01: that value is very high01:50
ajmitchhaving that many files open would be unusual01:50
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: Although.. the result of 'cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max' is 20298201:50
pschulz01ajmitch: yep.01:50
ajmitchulimit -n would show 1024 usually01:50
halcyonCorsairajmitch: pschulz01: i think the limit i'm looking at can be found via ulimit -n01:50
ajmitchusing pam_limits?01:51
halcyonCorsairajmitch: i'm pretty sure i need to increase that....as i mentioned, i'm trying to run bind9 over 1012 vlans...01:51
ajmitchsounds painful01:51
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: Looks like /etc/security/limits.conf is what you need.. this is what pam_limits uses.01:52
halcyonCorsairajmitch: well....1012 vlans, each segregated, each needs dns *shrugs*01:52
ajmitchand pam_limits would need to be in /etc/pam.d/common-session, I presume you have that there01:53
halcyonCorsairajmitch: i only have pam_unix.so and pam_foreground.so in common-session01:54
ajmitchok, add it & try01:54
ajmitchthough bind9 may itself have a limit on how many files it can open01:54
ajmitchand I have to run out in 5 minutes, sorry01:56
halcyonCorsairajmitch: can i just add the line "pam_limits.so" to the end of common-session?01:56
ajmitch'session required pam_limits.so'01:56
ajmitchorder is important, so it may need to go near the top01:57
ajmitchhowever I don't know how this will get used with a daemon like bind901:57
halcyonCorsairajmitch: http://rafb.net/p/M9xUdJ51.html01:58
halcyonCorsairthat was what i was getting01:58
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: My setup shows 'pam_limits.so' entries in pam.d in cron,ssh,login,su...02:00
ajmitchdamn, have to leave02:01
ajmitchback later02:01
halcyonCorsairalright, i'll soldier on :) see what i can come up with02:01
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: Are you convinced that it's 'number of files' problem?02:01
pschulz01Nafallo: Howdy babe.02:02
Nafallohehe. hi :-)02:03
halcyonCorsairpschulz01: not convinced, but its my best lead at the moment02:03
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: Other than googling for the error.. If you can start up bind with 'strace' you should be able to find the exact call that fails.02:04
NafalloI forgot to move a cable :-)02:04
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Nafallogood thing I got access til 7 in the morning :-)02:06
Kamping_Kaiserhi all02:08
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: Morning.02:08
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, morning. hows it going?02:09
pschulz01Nafallo has already sang the 'good-morning' babe song.02:09
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pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: Working on some requirements documentation :-)02:09
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, fun fun.02:09
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: You'll see it shortly :-)02:10
Kamping_Kaiserabotu to start typing notes again  (and multitasking with irc, so bad look)02:10
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, that sounds rather hopeful :)02:10
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: Where there's life there's hope.02:10
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: What do you know about XSL/XSLT ?02:11
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, how very philosphical... just wish i could agree atm - i'm about to commit myself to another day of typing... RSI anyone?02:11
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, i've heard of themb efore02:11
Kamping_Kaiserthey sound fairly familiar02:11
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: I'm moving all my 'user' details into an XML format. The plan is that that will help with the migration.02:12
Kamping_Kaiserah... then i've probably heard them in relation to docbook02:13
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: I'll leave you to it.02:14
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, i'm looking at irc now and then, if i dont reply, i'm typing elseware :)02:14
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halcyonCorsairpschulz01: does this mean anything to you? http://rafb.net/p/GBvKm991.html02:46
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: You live in NZ02:47
halcyonCorsairhalcyonCorsair: yes?02:48
halcyonCorsairpschulz01: the strace....anything there?02:48
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: Can yuo run it again with the 'include children' option? (-f I think)02:50
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: What I want to see is the print call that produces the error that you are seeing... then we can work back from there.02:51
halcyonCorsairpschulz01: eek, its 1.3M02:52
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: tail -n 20002:53
pschulz01halcyonCorsair: With maybe a grep.02:53
halcyonCorsairi won't get to see it print the error in there i don't think, will I/02:54
ajmitchgrep helps02:59
Kamping_Kaiser grep "string" -A15 -B1503:01
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halcyonCorsairi think this is the relevant section for the first vlan that bind9 fails for:03:04
halcyonCorsairajmitch, pschulz01: see anything interesting there?03:04
ajmitchyou mean apart from the 'too many open files' bit?03:05
halcyonCorsairajmitch: which would bring me back to trying to change the max open files limit, yes?03:07
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halcyonCorsairajmitch: i'm running bind chrooted, so in my limits.conf file, i need: "bind hard nofile 4096" perhaps?03:11
ajmitchyou can try it03:12
halcyonCorsairi love the confidence :)03:12
ajmitchnot many people ask about having >1000 vlans in here :)03:12
halcyonCorsairwell sure....they're just afraid to push the boundaries!  :P03:14
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Nafallowhat would you need that for?03:17
halcyonCorsairNafallo: a hotel with about 500 rooms, most of those needing two vlans with dhcp03:19
halcyonCorsairhmm, although potentially the second vlan in each room doesn't need dhcp.....03:19
halcyonCorsairbut thats irrelevant03:19
halcyonCorsairajmitch: i get a lot more of this now: socket: too many open file descriptors03:21
halcyonCorsairbut i don't see a noticable difference03:21
ajmitchI wonder what would happen if you had multiple bind instances, just as a test03:23
halcyonCorsairhow would you propose i do that?03:24
ajmitchyou could do multiple chroots & start each individually03:24
halcyonCorsairan interface / subnet per instance?03:25
ajmitchthat would end up with a lot of processes03:27
ajmitchtry just splitting it in 2 for now03:28
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ajmitchI presume you're generating a list of interfaces to listen on?03:36
halcyonCorsairajmitch: i'm not specifying the interfaces, no03:40
halcyonCorsairajmitch: what i'm specifying is the subnets03:40
ajmitcheither way03:41
ajmitchso you can split based on that03:41
halcyonCorsairajmitch: http://rafb.net/p/smj01748.html03:41
ajmitchok, that looks like dhcp to me03:42
ajmitchI'm meaning how you specify the bind configuration03:42
halcyonCorsairoh whoops03:43
halcyonCorsairhmm, now that you mention it....03:43
halcyonCorsaircome to think of it, i've been thinking bind and looking at dhcp....03:48
halcyonCorsairi don't do anything to specify interfaces or anything for bind....03:48
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halcyonCorsairajmitch: any idea on where i should begin?03:50
ajmitchprobably something to look at then03:50
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ajmitchhow are you starting it chrooted?03:50
halcyonCorsairajmitch: yes03:50
halcyonCorsairalso, where can i check whether the packager compiled it multithreaded?03:51
ajmitchI asked how03:51
ajmitchapt-get source bind9, see debian/rules03:51
halcyonCorsairajmitch: as per: http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu704_p403:53
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ajmitchok, interesting03:56
ajmitchso you could probably hack up the initscripts & create a new chroot, etc03:57
ajmitchif you wanted to try it out that way03:57
ajmitchI'd prefer to solve the open file descriptors issue03:57
halcyonCorsairme too04:03
halcyonCorsairbut what i'm trying is coming up empty04:03
halcyonCorsairusing /etc/security/limits.conf to up the hard and soft nofiles limit04:04
halcyonCorsairupping /proc/sys/fs/file-max04:04
halcyonCorsairand still no change04:04
ajmitchmost likely a hard limit in bind9 itself, at compile time04:05
ajmitchsince I've seen references to things like mangling headers to get a single process to use > 1024 open file descriptors04:06
ajmitcheg FD_SETSIZE in /usr/include/linux/posix_types.h04:06
halcyonCorsairare you saying i'll need to change that and recompile?04:08
ajmitchI'm saying that I've seen that recommended, yes04:08
ajmitchI don't know if it'll work or if it's a good idea04:09
=== halcyonCorsair wonder if anyone could lend him a brick wall to bash his head against....
halcyonCorsairajmitch: can i be sure its getting FD_SETSIZE from there?04:34
ajmitchbits/typesizes.h:#define        __FD_SETSIZE            102404:35
ajmitchit's also in 1 or 2 other places04:35
ajmitchit'd be a really ugly hack if you have to do it this way04:36
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KurtKrautHow can I know how many kbytes a process is occupying in RAM ?04:40
halcyonCorsairthere is a lib/bind/include/fd_setsize.h in the bind source, but it says:04:40
halcyonCorsair* If you need a bigger FD_SETSIZE, this is NOT the place to set it.04:40
halcyonCorsair * This file is a fallback for BIND ports which don't specify their own.04:40
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halcyonCorsairajmitch: unless you have another suggestion, short of trying another dns server, its all i got05:19
ajmitchyou've tried it, I presume?05:21
halcyonCorsairanother dns server?05:22
halcyonCorsairor the FD_SETSIZE?05:22
ajmitchno, changing the header & recompiling bind905:22
ajmitchit should only take a few minutes to verify05:22
halcyonCorsairoh, i'm about to do that now05:22
ajmitchdoing it in a chroot may be wise05:23
ajmitchyou know the general procedures for building debian packages, right?05:23
halcyonCorsairi've changed typesizes.h & posix_types.h05:23
halcyonCorsairi haven't done it in about 2 or 3 years, since i last used debian, so not really....a howto of some kind or something would be handy here05:23
ajmitchgenerally just apt-get install build-essential, apt-get build-dep bind9, apt-get source bind9, then go into the dir & debuild05:24
ajmitch(you probably want devscripts as well)05:24
ajmitchchanging the version number in debian/changelog could be a good idea to avoid the package getting clobbered on upgrade05:25
ajmitchbut then you're on your own for further updates05:25
halcyonCorsairbuilding now05:36
halcyonCorsairwhats the easiest way to install all my new packages?05:48
Kamping_Kaiserdpkg -i?05:48
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halcyonCorsairah dpkg -i *.deb did the trick05:48
halcyonCorsairi wasn't sure if it would figure out the deps properly05:48
halcyonCorsairajmitch: success05:48
halcyonCorsairhow depressing05:49
Kamping_Kaiserhehe. have to rebuild bind?05:49
ajmitchhalcyonCorsair: I was afraid of that05:50
ajmitchKamping_Kaiser: worse - rebuilding bind after modifying headers in /usr/include05:50
halcyonCorsairajmitch: do you have the bind9 source at the moment?05:50
Kamping_Kaiserajmitch, ew05:51
halcyonCorsairajmitch: look at lib/isc/unix/resource.c and search for FD_SETSIZE05:58
halcyonCorsairajmitch: there is a big comment starting with "The BIND 8 documentation reports:"05:59
halcyonCorsairajmitch: postfix and squid both seem to hack around this, but i guess bind hasn't had enough problems for people to care06:03
ajmitchbind tends not to need to open thousands of file descriptors at the same time06:04
ajmitchmost people tend not to have quite that many interfaces, for some reason06:07
halcyonCorsairajmitch: it used to be a problem with an older design, particularly on windows, and they've obviously taken note of it06:07
ajmitchor they'd run bind on 1 ip address & rely on something like iptables or routing to redirect packets :)06:08
halcyonCorsairpotentially that might be smarter :)06:08
ajmitchit may save you headaches in the long run06:10
lamontwhy does someone want BIND to have that many open files?06:19
ajmitch11:52 < halcyonCorsair> ajmitch: well....1012 vlans, each segregated, each needs dns *shrugs*06:20
ajmitchmoderate levels of insanity06:20
halcyonCorsairi didn't design the system....just trying to get it to work06:21
lamontand they can talk to BIND on an off-subnet IP, no?06:21
halcyonCorsairlamont: they're not meant to be able to no06:21
lamontmultiple BIND instances comes to mind, or just have bind listen on A.B.C.D and have everyone talk to that IP06:21
ajmitchboth of those suggestions have come up today06:21
lamontput the DNS server in it's own DMZ, which forces accessability from each vlan06:21
halcyonCorsairsometimes i really don't step back enough to see that fixing the current way the system works is stupid, and i should update the method06:22
lamontbeyond that, you're talking making changes to bind9 that probably don't want to be in the stock distro for ubuntu (or debian, or anywhere, for that matter) --> support costs06:22
halcyonCorsairlamont: yeah06:23
lamontergo, I'd be inclined to make it listen on 1 IP, and have 1012 views if I need to keep everything that separate...06:24
halcyonCorsairi'll probably just allow each vlan back to the main IP of that interface for DNS06:28
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dezmaethhi, im having a problem, i installed a new network card, and now , any of my network cards are working, i did /etc/init.d/networking restart , but nothing , none gets ip09:16
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nandemonaiHey guys, general nfs question.. If I have machine A mounting from machine B and machine B is rebooted or shutdown.. Will it umount on machine A safely?02:34
sorennandemonai: No. Any attempt to access the share will hang until the machine is back up.02:41
nandemonaisoren, Hmm ok.. by hang you mean time out or will it cause real issues?02:42
sorennandemonai: Depends on how it was mounted. It might hang indefinetely.02:43
sorennandemonai: I've heard stories about nfs server going down due to hardware issues, being sent to the manufacturer for repairs, coming back, getting turned back on, and then all of the clients just continued where they left off.02:44
nandemonaisoren, Mounted via a term, sudo mount yadda yadda. It's just I have a share from my desktop to the server and wondered about if I need to shutdown or whatnot.02:44
nandemonaisoren,  Heh that's pretty impressive.02:44
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sorennandemonai: If you're just rebooting the server, everything should be fine.02:45
nandemonaisoren, I guess if I need to shutdown for a period of time I should just umount server-side.02:45
nandemonaisoren, Server will be up fulltime, it's the fact it has a mount coming from my desktop I want to share that's the issue. I don't want to have to keep the desktop up fulltime also.02:46
sorennandemonai: You can just leave it as is. If you try to read from it, it just won't return until the share is available.02:47
nandemonaisoren, Okie doke. It's not like it's a corporate environment or anything, just didn't want the server to die if one of my roomies tries to access the share and it's not up my end.02:48
nandemonaisoren, Thanks for the info ;)02:48
sorennandemonai: Any time02:49
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kurosakisoren, Umm, hate to be a nag, but I went ahead and rebooted the desktop and now even though it's back up I'm getting: Stale NFS file handle trying to access the share on the server.03:11
kurosakioh yeah.. sry03:13
sorenkurosaki: Could you pastebin the output of /proc/mounts, please?03:14
sorenHi, ivoks!03:14
nandemonaiI went ahead and umounted them and remounted so my proc wont be helpful right?03:14
sorennandemonai: Not really :)03:15
nandemonaiThey look ok?03:15
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sorennandemonai: Yeah, that looks sane.03:20
nandemonaisoren, That's what I thought. Oh well no biggie. I just have to remember to umount if I'm going to shutdown for a bit.03:21
sorennandemonai: http://sysunconfig.net/unixtips/stale_nfs.txt03:21
sorennandemonai: Do any of those apply, you think?03:22
sorennandemonai: What was shared?03:22
sorennandemonai: It really, really should work. You should not have to reboot03:22
nandemonaisoren, Well it's shared to a www dir via nfs03:22
sorennandemonai: I'm more interested in where it's shared *from*.03:23
nandemonaisoren, That all works primo just didn't seem to like the server(ie my desktop) rebooting.03:23
nandemonaisoren, My desktop. Which I want to be able to shutdown on occasion. To local house 'server' ubuntu as well which is the client mounting from my machine.03:24
sorennandemonai: Sure, but which part of the filesystem?03:24
nandemonaisoren, Just a dir with some data from my home dir.03:25
sorennandemonai: I'm trying to determine if it's plausible that might appear to disappear for nfs.03:25
sorennandemonai: Sounds odd. If you can provide simple steps to reproduce it, I'd appreciate it.03:25
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nandemonaisoren, Ok sure. I'll reboot my machine again and see if the share stales out again.03:26
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nandemonaiWell that would be right..03:30
nandemonaiIt's fine now.03:31
nandemonaiAlthough, I didn't try and access it from another machine while it was down, which I did the previous time. I'll try that.03:31
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nandemonaiOkies that did it. Seems that rebooting the nfs-server (my desktop) and then trying to access the share on the nfs-client (home server) hangs when my machine is down which makes sence ;) Ok then bring the nfs-server back up and the shares are showing as mounted via df with - - - - and an ls of the mount point reads Stale NFS Handler again.03:42
nandemonaiErr on the nfs client that is after my machine is back up.03:43
nandemonaiBoth running ubuntu 7,04 and up to date. The home server is 64bit if that makes a difference... Any other info you'd like soren?03:45
nandemonaisoren, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35548/ is my /proc/mounts after this has occurred. Last two lines are the two stale mounts.03:49
sorennandemonai: nfs-kernel-server?03:52
nandemonaisoren, Yes indeedy.03:52
sorennandemonai: Could you please file a bug about it?03:53
nandemonaisoren, Sure, will do.03:54
sorennandemonai: Thanks very much.03:54
nandemonaisoren, So expected behaviour is that it should resume nicely once the server is back up right?03:54
sorennandemonai: IMO, yes.03:54
nandemonaisoren, Okies.03:54
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rakyi've just finished a long trial with centos 5.  too many things missing for what i'm doing.  is ubuntu server 7.04 good-to-go, or should i revert to 6.10 or 6.06 server?05:25
mralphabetraky: it depends on what your requirements are05:26
mralphabetraky: do you need certain versions of packages?05:26
rakyi just want to do a pxe-install and use Xen or VMware05:26
mralphabetvmware works out of 6.06 and 6.10, I am using it on 7.04 atm (though at the time I installed, it was unsupported)05:27
mralphabetfor xen I would suggest 7.0405:28
mralphabetI am sure vmware is working out of the box now05:28
rakyso i saw a few tweaks for VMware in 7.04.  where they as small as i saw - only like fixing 5 or so lines with command line?05:29
mralphabetI did it ~4 months ago and at the time it was less then 2 minutes to do it05:30
rakygreat, thanks05:30
rakyand what OSs have you made into VMs?05:31
mralphabet2003 server, xp, vista05:31
rakyi'll just need to virt. some other linux distros05:31
mralphabetshould work great05:31
rakythanks, mralphabet05:32
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osmosisanyone using Xen ?06:08
osmosisI wanted to know how it is.06:08
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rakyI'm gonna choose a gui for Xen in a few days, there are several to choose from.06:35
rakyosmosis, xen has a lot more variables to choose from than vmware.  and virtualization techniques are a little diff between the two.06:36
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rakyoh, and see ##xen for more details, osmosis06:42
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osmosisraky: okay cool07:35
rakyi have hardware RAID 5.  is install ubuntu to hdd diff from install to first hdd on the first prompt?07:44
mralphabetraky: should be fine, software raid is troublesome, however07:47
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dho_ragusraky: i've had some issues with hardware raid and found solutions for all of them.  i don't understand what you're asking though.08:48
rakyi just wondered if the install process was diff for first hdd versus install on hdd, dho_ragus08:49
rakyeverything looks like its working now, dho_ragus , but i'm curious about alternatives08:49
rakywhy is the new server image upgrade offereing not authenticated?  whta's the deal?08:52
rakyif i'm going to run vmware, will i need this?  i know support has been increasing lately, so it may be good for that08:54
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mralphabet13:49 < raky> why is the new server image upgrade offereing not authenticated?  whta's the deal?09:03
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rakyit may be a eth0/1 problem, i'm looking at my connection09:04
rakyi feared this, this connection thing is a problem, i have to work with the gui, maybe/maybe not09:05
mralphabetthis connection thing?09:06
rakynetwork settings09:07
rakyok, i see, confused eth0 and eth109:07
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rakyn/m, good-to-go, but about the authentication, mralphabet i'm checking it again09:08
rakyyeah, the linux-server-image 2.6.20-16-server is not authenticated, mralphabet09:09
rakyi didn't expect server images to be not authenticated, and wonder why09:10
rakyi'm in no hurry now, i'll be back around 11 or 12 PM, or tomorrow morning.09:11
mralphabetI didn't have anything like that come up09:12
rakyhmm.  well, later, ttyl09:12
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Yahooadamdo you have a problem WaVeR - or just saying hi ?11:05
krauti have a problem with your plenking!11:05
Yahooadam... ?11:06
krautstop it!11:06
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WaVeRYahooadam>  Just saying hi, and I try to offer my help.11:06
krautWaVeR: please help Yahooadam to stop plenking ;)11:07
WaVeRI just join the Ubuntu-server team so I'm here to see ^^11:07
WaVeRI can't ^^11:07
krautdamn it11:07
krautYahooadam: please read this! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenk11:08
Yahooadamwtf is plenking :S11:08
Yahooadamits teh interwebs, who cares about the space between punctuation :p11:08
krautis this plenking? <- no11:08
krautis this plenking ? <- yes11:08
krautweb2.0 doesn't support plenking!11:09
Yahooadamit so does !11:09
Yahooadamsee :p11:09
krautGAH ! ! ! 1 1 one eleven11:09
krautthat was prell-plenking :P11:09
mathiazWaVeR: did you apply for membership on launchpad ?11:10
krauti did and i am still waiting for replies :/11:11
WaVeRYes mathiaz11:11
WaVeRAnd I think you approve me11:11
mathiazWaVeR: ah ok. I tought you said you can't join the Ubuntu-server team.11:11
WaVeR I try to know how can I help. Now I'm looking the Ubuntu-server wiki page11:13
ajmitchmathiaz: just wrote to the MC list for you11:19
mathiazajmitch: hi. I've seen it. Thanks for your support.11:20
mathiazWaVeR: great. Let me know if it's confusing.11:23
mathiazWaVeR: or if you have any question11:24
WaVeRThanks for your support mathiaz. I will inform you if I have trouble11:25
Yahooadamplenked ?11:25
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halcyonCorsairajmitch: ping12:19
halcyonCorsairajmitch: so now that i know that changing FD_SETSIZE works, and is horrible12:22
halcyonCorsairhow do i get rid of the packages I created and revert back to the official version?12:22
ajmitchyou could remove & reinstall, or try apt-get --reinstall12:22
ajmitchthe latter is preferable12:23

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