pooliebtw there's some docstring corrections in my pack-repo branch12:03
lifelessI'm thinking about this knit change12:04
lifelessheres what I plan:12:04
lifeless - add a new subclass of knit that writes a different knit record but can read either12:04
lifeless - add a new interknit to convert data from regular knits to this12:04
lifelesschange packs to use the new knit12:05
abentleyabadger1999: Thanks.  I've emailed the other contributors, to confirm it's okay with them (though I understand I'm not required to by law).12:05
abadger1999That's excellent.  Thanks for helping me clear that up.12:05
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kiko-afk<yml> I am still getting the same error on windows : bzr: ERROR : ERROR 2 The system cannot find the file specified12:11
kiko-afkhas anyone seen this error?12:11
lifelessif you run with BZR_PDB=1 you can drop into pdb and poke around12:11
lifelessor check .bzr.log for a backtrace12:11
kiko-afkit's windows though12:11
lifelessbzr version will show where the log file is12:12
lifeless(bzr --version)12:12
abadger1999abentley: BTW, I have a little patch that makes python setup.py sdist include the COPYING file12:13
abadger1999 http://toshio.fedorapeople.org/packages/trac+bzr-install.patch12:13
kiko-afkintriguing! thanks.12:13
abentleyI don't understand your setup.py change.12:15
abadger1999I'm not sure why, but setuptools is deciding not to include COPYING in the tarball even though it is listed in data_files12:16
abadger1999moving it from data_files to MANIFEST.in makes setuptools more cooperative.12:16
abadger1999There's also some setuptools documentation that makes me think that data_files is for real data_files that the python module depends on at runtime12:17
abadger1999While MANIFEST.in can feed files into the tarball that aren't put into the installed module tree.12:18
abentleyOkay, I'll take it on trust.12:18
abadger1999heh. Thanks :-)12:19
abentleylifeless: I don't know if the bzr.dev deb Recommends xdg-utils, but it should.  (The recent bzr send updates use xdg-email if possible)12:30
lifelessprobably doesn't.12:30
lifelessI haven't started building dailies yet though12:30
abentleyJust thought of that, reading today's IRC log.12:31
lifelessuhm, where to record this :)12:31
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beunodoes anyone know why someone would be getting these errors: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35614/12:42
poolieit looks like it's trying to run putty and failing12:43
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beunopoolie: I believe it's related to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/10715512:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107155 in bzr "_get_vendor_by_inspection incorrectly determines "plink" to be the executable" [Medium,Confirmed] 12:44
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pooliehi igc12:48
beunoit is  :D12:49
pooliebeuno, yes, that looks like it12:49
igcmorning poolie. Feeling better today?12:49
pooliesuggest you try the workoround12:49
beunoit fixed it for him, thanks poolie12:49
poolieigc: no :)12:49
pooliebeuno, could you try to write a patch for it that  changes the code that determines the ssh version ?12:49
beunopoolie: I can give it a try, yes   :D12:51
beunoI'll have to find a pc with windows around the office to test it, but I guess it shouldn't be too hard12:51
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Janzertwould anyone have a guesstimate for when win32 0.90 installers will be up?01:27
poolieJanzert, typically they come within a day or two of the release01:28
lifelessI'm not sure who is building them this time01:28
pooliealexander haro?01:28
Janzertok, thanks01:29
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lifelessmight need a oing01:32
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lifelessok, should have our 0.90 debs up shortly, last build glitches for feisty gutsy sid seem fixed02:24
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tonyyarussobtw, in case anyone cares I asked Apress and O'Reilly if they had any plans for a Bazaar book.  Both said no, not at this time, but were open to proposals.02:35
kiko-afkif they pay me a million dollars I will write two books on bzr02:37
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lifelessspiv: hows that digit ?03:34
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spivlifeless: in motion ;)03:35
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spivI used a phrase like "I need to extract my digit" in a call yesterday when talking about getting the latest hpss fetch optimisation work up for review.03:38
poolielifeless, there's an extension of look before you leap03:44
pooliewhich is about giving nice error messages if someone uses an api wrongly03:44
pooliefor example if you give just a string rather than a tuple to an index as a key,03:45
poolieit just fails to match, or gives you a 'weird' error when trying to insert03:45
pooliei would have thought this was a bug, but it's probably not - checking everything takes time03:45
poolieand once i realize it's my bug it won't happen again03:45
poolieyou do pay the cost of developers being more mystified when they have bugs though03:46
poolieso possibly we should arrange to run with -O in normal use, but with assertions on in development03:47
lifelessso I'd be much happier if "asd"[0] [0]  errored03:47
pooliethat sorta thing03:47
lifelesswell in this case its a string blackhole03:48
lifeless(1,2)[0] [0]  errors03:48
poolieanother thing like that was the patch from aaron i reviewed a while ago03:48
pooliethings that are meant to yield a sequence of strings can silently return just a string instead, potentially making you do much more work03:48
lifelessmy pet wish for python - have a byte data type. not *bytes*, *byte*.03:49
lifelessso gzipping is a net win03:53
lifelesswe spend 4m20 seconds in IO if we don't gzip03:53
lifeless1m40 if we do03:53
lifelessthis is for a copy of mozilla, naturally03:57
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beunopoolie, I'm finishing up the patch for bug #107155, should I just send it to the ML with [MERGE]  in the topic, or would you like to review it?04:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107155 in bzr "_get_vendor_by_inspection incorrectly determines "plink" to be the executable" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10715504:15
lifelessbeuno: just send to the lsit; things get reviewed there :)04:16
beunolifeless, should of guessed, thanks.  I'm a bit nervous as this is actually changing code in bzr, I'm not that confident yet  :p04:17
poolielifeless, do you want to talk about gzip some more?04:20
=== igc lunch
lifelesssorry, no browser:04:25
lifelessgzip each hunk04:25
lifelessreal    5m53.774s04:25
lifelessuser    4m7.047s04:25
lifelesssys     0m12.901s04:25
lifelessno gzip04:25
lifelessreal    7m8.611s04:25
lifelessuser    2m41.846s04:25
lifelesssys     0m16.821s04:25
lifelessgzip entire contents04:25
lifelessreal    4m46.153s04:26
lifelessuser    4m29.457s04:26
lifelesssys     0m11.961s04:26
lifelessso we spend nearly 50% of our user time doing gzip04:26
lifelessbut overall time is IO bound for mozilla's tree if we don't gzip04:27
beunolifeless, should of guessed, thanks.  I'm a bit nervous as this is actually changing code in bzr, I'm not that confident yet  :p04:43
beuno(sorry, wrong windows)04:43
beunoirssi still confuses me with the actual terminal sometimes, so up + enter is dangerous  :p04:44
abentleyigc: ping05:06
igchi abentley05:07
abentleyHi there.05:07
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abentleyI wanted to try and get a clearer idea of the distinction between "user guide" material and "user reference" material.05:08
igcthe 'reference' should cover every detail ...05:08
bheeklingDoes bzr work from behind an http proxy?05:08
bheeklingie, if I set the http_proxy etc variables05:08
abentley'cause the hook document was definitely meant as a how-to.05:09
igcbut not bother explaining how to use those details05:09
lifelessbheekling: yes05:09
igchow-to is definitely 'User Guide' material05:09
bheeklingit doesn't seem to be working for me, it says "bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fullfil the request"05:09
igcabentley: I'm pleased to see hooks added to the User Guide ...05:09
lifelessbheekling: interesting. You might try http+httplib05:09
lifelessrather htan just http05:10
igcThe list of actual hooks though also lives in the Reference I feel05:10
lifelessand please file a bug with as much information as you have - what proxy server05:10
abentleyigc: I think a certain amount of reference material is necessary to any how-to.05:10
igcyes. At least enough to explain things and give samples05:11
bheeklinglifeless, what do you mean by http+httplib?05:11
abentleyI guess I could ignore all the other hook types and just talk about the push hook.05:12
igcabentley: if and when we get lots of hooks, I don't think I want all of them in the Guide05:12
abentleyAnd then link to a hook reference.05:12
igcThat sounds good05:13
lifelessbheekling: 'bzr OPERATION http+urllib://server/path'05:14
abentleyWhat is strange but true is I often 'bzr pull' my own patches off Bundle Buggy.  The hook docs were written at work, but I'll finish them at home.05:14
igcI download patches off BB all the time, even though their in my email somewhere05:15
abentleyigc: I download my own patches, though.05:16
igcok, you win :-)05:16
igccan't beat that :-)05:17
bheeklinglifeless, it works with that, thanks :)05:20
lifelessbheekling: can you please file a bug?05:20
lifelessbheekling: specify what proxy you have if you know05:20
bheeklinglifeless, okay, I'll do that05:21
bheeklinglifeless, correction, it seems bzr works with my proxy just fine, that problem was a random fluctuation I think :)05:29
bheeklingIts importing happily now05:29
igcpoolie: any further thoughts re whether -D needs to stay a global option or not? I'm planning to make it a "standard option" instead of a global one unless I hear a reason not to05:42
lifelessit affects everythin05:43
lifelessso it should be global IMNSHO05:43
igcok - so it *must* remain global?05:44
poolieigc, hi05:45
lifelessI think so, because we might do e.g. -Dcommand at some point, to track ui loading05:45
lifelessif we're happy not to do that, then having it standard is ok05:45
igcIt seems to me that the limitations re global options are aceptable to -D05:46
lifelessprofiling is the most boringest thing05:47
poolieigc, i agree it's ok to change it05:47
poolieis there a particular motivation for changing it?05:47
igcI can certainly see a case where parsing it before anything else would be required05:47
igcpoolie: just following up your email05:47
igc... where you thought out loud about 'maybe -D doesn't need to remain global'05:48
igcIIRC that is05:48
lifelessannotations cost us heaps05:49
lifeless$ rm -rf .bzr && bzr --no-plugins  init --experimental && bzr --no-plugins add > /dev/null && time ~/source/baz/repository/bzr --no-plugins  commit -m "Initial commit"  2>/dev/null05:49
igcso poolie, given the feedback from lifeless, I'll leave it global05:49
lifelessreal    3m50.336s05:49
lifelessuser    3m34.897s05:49
lifelesssys     0m10.941s05:49
lifelessthats a 30 second improvement05:49
lifelesson initial commit05:49
lifelessjust by not caching annotations05:50
lifeless(4m23 to 3m50)05:50
igclifeless: interesting05:50
abentleylifeless: that's strange, because annotations do require sequence matching, but so does knit delta generation, and AIUI, they share the same sequence matching.05:59
lifelesswe do less string manipulation without annotations06:00
lifelessbecause annotations are stored as line prefixes in the knit record06:00
abentleySo even changing our annotation representation might help a lot?06:01
poolielifeless, one thing you could try is using lzo compression06:02
pooliewhich uses less cpu than gzip06:02
lifelessI found nearly no difference using one gzip file versus one-per-record06:03
lifelessuser    4m29.457s06:03
lifelessuser    4m3.963s06:03
lifelessin fact, it went backwards06:03
lifelesswhich was weird06:03
abentleySmaller working set, maybe.06:04
poolielifeless, is there already a container record that says "give me the contents of the bytes record at (off,len)"?06:05
lifelesspoolie: EPARSE06:06
lifelessdo you mean API ?06:06
pooliemy index tells me i want the record at a certain location in the container06:06
poolieyes, api06:06
lifelessabentley: I don't think so; compressing the entire pack to a single zip should have nearly identical memory use06:09
lifelessI htink there is still room for considerable noise06:10
lifelessbtw feisty gutsy sid repos on bazaar-vcs.org have bzr/bzrtools/bzr-gtk 0.90 now06:10
abentleylifeless: nice.06:10
lifelesson my list06:10
abentleyAh.  Not as easy to update, then?06:11
lifelessnot quite, got to back out some packaging changes that removed explicit versioning on depends06:11
ajmitchetch is the same?06:11
NamNguyencan we cast a vote with BB's web interface?06:15
lifelessif you have an account; accounts are granted when abentley things you are sane06:15
NamNguyenlifeless: i'm running bb on my machine06:15
NamNguyenbut i cant find any button to approve or decline a merge request06:16
abentleyNamNguyen: Congratulations.  AFAIK, that's the first independent install.06:16
abentleyNamNguyen: You have to be logged in.06:16
NamNguyenabentley: and i have logged in06:16
igcManNguyen: have a read of http://bazaar-vcs.org/IanClatworthy/CoreDeveloperHandbook. It should answer some of the questions you had yesterday06:16
igcNamNguyen: ^^^06:17
abentleySo it should show you voting options from "reject" to "approve" on the request page.06:17
NamNguyeni see a list of tabs, but i dont see any buttons06:18
poolielifeless, it looks like i want something like that, but creating a BytesRecordReader, not a ContainerReader...06:18
abentleyYou need to go to the page for a particular request.06:18
lifelesspoolie: you want one record out?06:18
pooliewell, possibly more than one06:19
lifelesspoolie: thats going to perform badly on high latency links06:19
abentleyBy clicking on the summary link06:19
lifelesspoolie: I don't see why it doesn't do what you need - you iterate the container to get the byte records you want06:19
NamNguyenabentley: thank you, it's weird, now i can see it, i was so sure i didn't see that before06:20
poolieoh i see06:20
abentleyNo problem.06:20
pooliethere's just one more layer...06:20
abentleyI saw earlier you were upset it used procmail.  Does your server not have procmail?06:21
NamNguyenit's running on windows06:21
NamNguyenso i wrote a pop3 client to manually poll at 5-min interval06:22
NamNguyenand submit it to the web06:22
abentleyHmm.  Maybe that makes sense for Windows.06:23
NamNguyenyea, it doesn't have local maildir06:23
NamNguyenbut of course, then it wouldn't be "real-time" enough06:23
lifelesscygwin has procmail if you want it06:23
abentleyWell, you certainly can set up a local mail server on Windows, I just imagine it's a pain.06:25
NamNguyeni'm using gmail apps06:25
lifelesssetup.exe from cygwin, select fetchmail and procmail; or at least thats what I'd do:)06:25
NamNguyenit's better just to write a few lines of pop306:25
abentleylifeless: You shameless former-cygwin-developer, you :-)06:27
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abentleyNamNguyen: Well, if you've got any feedback on Bundle Buggy, I'd be interested to hear.  But I'm off to bed in a minute.06:30
NamNguyenlinking bb and pqm06:30
NamNguyenbut, good night aaron06:30
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NamNguyenit'd be a complete solution for patch management06:30
abentleyAh.  The reason BB doesn't submit to PQM is because usually by the time a patch has been approved, it no longer merges cleanly.06:31
NamNguyenso a human is required after all06:33
abentleyWell, for the Bazaar codebase at least.06:33
poolieit would be nice to have them integrated06:34
abentleyWe are constantly updating the top of the NEWS file, so we get conflicts there.06:34
lifelessthe big difference is in userspace06:35
lifelesshg spend 1 minute in userspace06:35
lifelesswe spend 3.5-4.506:35
poolieand is it mostly in gzip, or was that a wild goose chase?06:35
lifelesswe spend 1m20 in gzip06:36
lifelessgzip each hunk06:36
lifeless(with hot source files)06:36
lifelessreal    4m23.884s06:36
lifelessuser    4m3.963s06:36
lifelesssys     0m11.649s06:36
lifelessno gzip06:36
lifelessreal    7m8.611s06:36
lifelessuser    2m41.846s06:36
lifelesssys     0m16.821s06:36
lifelessgzip entire pack06:36
lifelessreal    4m46.153s06:36
lifelessuser    4m29.457s06:36
lifelesssys     0m11.961s06:36
AfC"hot source files"06:37
=== AfC has an image if Bazaar being used by a XXX movie company.
abentleyG'night, folkds.06:38
abentleyfolks, even.06:38
lifelessnight abentley06:40
lifelessthis is interesting06:40
lifeless du -sh .bzr/06:40
lifeless142M    .bzr/06:40
lifelessthats the pack repo06:40
lifelesshg had a 280M repo06:40
lifelesswith no annotations, naturally06:41
lifelesspoolie: up to a chat ?06:41
AfC(what are annotations?)06:41
poolielifeless, in a sec06:42
AfC(heard them mentioned here a few times as having a space impact)06:42
poolieAfC, our memory of what revision changed a line06:42
lifelessAfC: precalculated line -> revision id mappings06:42
poolieit makes gannotate and weave merge fast06:42
lifelessAfC: what makes 'bzr blame' so fast06:42
AfCNeat. Thanks.06:42
lifelesspoolie: ok, ring my mobile please, I'm going for a walk06:43
fullermdPack repo of what?06:44
=== fullermd blinks.
fullermdThat's freakin' small.06:46
pooliejust the initial import i think06:46
AfCNot sure if you gents saw this on planet.gnome.org or elsewhere, but this post by Alex Gravely is excellent, http://www.beatniksoftware.com/blog/?p=7406:48
fullermdOooh, ok.  So it's merely "rather nice", not "mind-zonkingly tiny".06:50
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lifeless du -sh .07:11
lifeless669M    .07:11
lifeless du -sh .bzr/07:11
lifeless142M    .bzr/07:11
lifelessso 550M for the source07:11
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lifelessholy fuck this test is taking forever07:47
lifelessa$ python -m timeit -s 'from bzrlib.tuned_gzip import GzipFile; from bzrlib.osutils import pumpfile' "of=GzipFile('/dev/null', 'wb'); pumpfile(file('../mozilla.tar', 'rb'), of); of.close()"07:47
abadger1999Hmm... bzr branch bzr+ssh:// seems to have a regression compared to bzr branch sftp://08:06
abadger1999 bzr branch bzr+ssh://fedorapeople.org/home/fedora/toshio/public_html/bzr-repo/packagedb/fedora-packagedb-stable08:06
abadger1999Copying repository content as tarball...08:06
abadger1999bzr: ERROR: Tags not supported by BzrBranch5('file:///var/tmp/fedora-packagedb-stable/'); you may be able to use bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags.08:06
lifelessthere is a bug on this08:07
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abadger1999Cool.  I'll go look in launchpad.08:08
lifeless(but no fix yet)08:08
lifelesswhen spivs patches arrive they will fix it08:08
abadger1999excellent.  Thanks for the info.08:12
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lifeless(by deprecating that other api)08:16
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pooliespiv, hi?09:55
spivpoolie: hello09:58
spivHmm, will have to finish this email on the train.10:01
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Lo-lan-doHello all.10:07
pooliespiv, quick call?10:08
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Lo-lan-doIs there a way to have a branch living under another directory than where the repository is stored?10:08
poolieno, it has to be contained within the repository10:08
datobut, you can just put it elsewhere10:09
pooliethis is more for avoiding confusion than technical reasons10:09
Lo-lan-doIs that a theoretical impossibility?10:09
Lo-lan-doAh, no, good.10:09
datothe revisions will not be transferred to the repository, but you can push them by hand10:09
Lo-lan-doActually, let me come up with the context.10:09
poolielet me make sure i understand? do you mean you want a branch whose history is stored in a directory that's not above the branch?10:09
datoor you can create a lightwheit checkout of a branch elsewhere in the filesystem10:09
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=== Topic for #bzr: The Bazaar Version Control System | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | Bazaar 0.90 is out - http://bazaar-vcs.org/releases/src/bzr-0.90.tar.gz | Please complete the Bazaar User Survey - http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=L94RvLswhKdktrxiHWiX3g_3d_3d
=== Topic (#bzr): set by james_w at Tue Aug 28 23:38:27 2007
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lifelessLo-lan-do: yes, local push will create trees; there should be a bug on that10:58
Lo-lan-do'kay.  I can live with that for now, since there's remove-tree :-)10:59
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Lo-lan-doAh, but bzr branch doesn't know about --create-prefix.11:02
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mwhudsonis there a bzr-gtk 0.90 deb yet?12:30
jelmerthere is one in debian, not sure whether it's been uploaded to bazaar-vcs.org or ubuntu yet12:31
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fullermdthumper: Whoops, I lied.  It's post-0.90, so no release yet.12:31
hstuartmwhudson, jelmer, it's up in feisty at least12:32
hstuartat least an apt-get upgrade fetched it for me this morning12:33
mwhudsonit is?12:33
jelmerah, ok - so it's up on bazaar-vcs.org12:33
mwhudsoni don't have bazaar-vcs.org in my repo list12:33
hstuartI live life dangerously ;)12:33
mwhudsonwell, i run bzr.dev most of the time...12:36
elmobzr's managed to take a 30Mb tree and turn it into 51Mb just to import - is that ratio expected?12:36
hstuarthmm, the bzr upgrade on my second box is failing, though12:37
hstuartgetting a: error in control file: `Files' value not specified at /usr/sbin/install-docs line 804, </usr/share/doc-base/bzr> line 1012:37
mwhudsonelmo: i'm not quite sure what you mean by 'import'12:41
mwhudsonthat ratio does seem a little big, how compressible is the stuff you're importing?12:41
elmomwhudson: bzr init; bzr add; bzr commit12:42
elmomwhudson: it's /etc/gconf from a feisty fesktop; I suspect very compressible in a tar sense, less so in an indiviual file sense12:43
mwhudsoni would expect that to increase the size of the tree by ~the size of the tree when gzipped12:43
mwhudsoneach file gzipped independently12:43
mwhudsonhstuart: hm, me too12:44
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hstuartso... who do we lynch? ;)12:46
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rockyhmm... the new feisty deb for bzr 0.90 seems busted?12:48
rockykk... just making sure someone knew ;)12:48
hstuartyou can solve it by adding this line to /usr/share/doc-base/bzr : Files: /usr/share/doc/bzr/html/index.html   as the last line12:48
hstuartnot sure whether that's a decent fix, but it got the rest through installation here12:49
rockyah thanks12:50
rockyhere's a quick question ... when i install bzr deb it says "INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'" because i manually installed python2.3 into /usr/bin ... /usr/bin/python points at python2.5 so why would it be saying that?12:51
hstuartno idea, sorry12:51
rockyhm... time to ask #ubuntu i suppose ;)12:52
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datohstuart: yeah, known problem (re install-docs). I think lifeless is on top of it.01:02
hstuartok, great01:09
lifelesshad a missing output dir, but otherwise its looking good01:22
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lunaticis it possible to cancel a pending merge ?01:42
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datolunatic, `bzr revert`, if I understood you correctly01:43
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lunaticyes but revert does not stop the status message to display "pending merge"01:44
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datolunatic: it does, it does. at least here it does.01:45
lunaticok, so I perhaps have a strangeness here01:46
lunaticthanks for all01:46
abentleylunatic: "revert ." will not clear the pending merge, only "revert" with no arguments.01:51
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abentleylifeless: The major costs in annotation, diffing and merging are sequence matching operations.  It would be nice to serialize the get_matching_blocks output.  Could you investigate how much that costs?02:02
lifelesswhats the difference between that and our deltas today?02:03
lifelesshmm, actually 10pm here02:04
kiko-afklifeless, one trivial question02:04
lifelessI'm going to finish my talk slides and sleep02:04
lifelessremind me tomorrow :)02:04
kiko-afklifeless, does the new (packs?) format produce a smaller file than the knit?02:04
kiko-afkour knits are now 250MB!02:05
lifelesskiko-afk: launchpads ?02:05
lifeless250M seems a little small to me02:06
mwhudsoni think kiko just means the inventory.knit ?02:07
lifeless$ ls -lh launchpad.packs/.bzr/repository/packs02:07
lifelesstotal 347M02:07
lifeless-rw-r--r-- 1 robertc warthogs 346M 2007-08-16 07:55 9e0bcc57d834ca3ae0b5f5844d82dedb.pack02:07
lifeless~$ ls -lh launchpad.packs/.bzr/repository/indices/02:07
lifelesstotal 25M02:07
lifeless-rw-r--r-- 1 robertc warthogs 2.1M 2007-08-16 07:55 9e0bcc57d834ca3ae0b5f5844d82dedb.iix02:07
lifeless-rw-r--r-- 1 robertc warthogs 2.1M 2007-08-16 07:55 9e0bcc57d834ca3ae0b5f5844d82dedb.rix02:07
lifeless-rw-r--r-- 1 robertc warthogs 1.2M 2007-08-16 07:55 9e0bcc57d834ca3ae0b5f5844d82dedb.six02:07
lifeless-rw-r--r-- 1 robertc warthogs  19M 2007-08-16 07:55 9e0bcc57d834ca3ae0b5f5844d82dedb.tix02:07
lifelessdu -sh on a knit repo:02:07
lifelesswith --apparent, 395M02:08
lifelessso yes smaller02:08
lifelessmainly due to a more effective dictionay compression on the indices02:09
lifelesskiko-afk: the big win is the ability to partially read indices though02:09
lifelessand for you, the streaming network push will reduce push and pull times dramatically02:10
lifelesseven without the smart server02:10
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kiko-afklifeless, yes, just the inventory.knit file.02:10
kiko-afkwill that file be smaller?02:10
lifelessthat file does not exist anymore02:10
kiko-afkare there any other large files like that?02:11
lifelessyes, the .pack files :)02:11
lifelesssee the ls -lh I gave above02:11
kiko-afk346mb, wow.02:12
lifelessits the entire database02:12
lifelessincluding your sample debs :)02:12
lifelesskiko-afk: I have sent instructions on how to dogfood packs to the bazaar mailing list02:12
lifelesskiko-afk: .pack files are write-once02:13
lifelesskiko-afk: they can be rsynced much more safely02:14
kiko-afklifeless, so we rewrite the 346mb to other files later?02:14
lifelessthough still not entirely as safe as using bzr itself; but I can push at 80% of rsync speed.02:14
lifelesskiko-afk: yes, with logarithmic backoff. So for that 346MB file we're probably at 20K commits in it02:15
lifelessor something like that.02:15
lifelessso I'd expect a rewrite of it at 100K commits02:15
lifelessuntil then its static02:15
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kiko-afklifeless, I wonder why using a single file that large is a good idea -- why shouldn't we have a smaller ceiling in order to avoid disk frag and just general problems with dealing with it.02:16
lifelessthe design rationale covers this I believe02:17
lifelessin short, we have a smaller VFS requirement set, better control over physical disk layout, the ability to avoid many roundtrips to access data02:18
kiko-afkby using a single file?02:18
kiko-afkI'd be interested in reading that02:18
lifelesswe write a single file & its indices during commit02:18
lifelessevery 10 commits we collapse these to 1 files with 10 commits02:19
lifelessevery 100 commits we collapse 10x10 commits packs to 1x100 commit pack02:19
kiko-afkhow interesting02:19
kiko-afkdoes that not grow exponentially more expensive?02:19
lifelesslogarithmic backoff02:19
kiko-afki.e. when it's time to move the 1000 commits it will hurt? :)02:20
lifelessit will, but:02:20
lifelessbzr+ssh does it on the server02:20
lifelessthe move is cheap as its little more than a readv + write02:20
lifelesswhen we do a push we create a single pack anyway, regardless of the number of commits being pushed02:21
lifelessso its actuall less often than every 10 operations that this kicks in remotely, in the common case02:22
lifelesswe can only issue a single readv for one file at a time02:22
lifelessour biggest network performance problem is latency02:22
lifelessso consider moz - 55K files02:22
lifeless55K indices02:22
lifelessthats 110K * RTT at a minimum02:23
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lifeless112000 commits - thats 4 .pack files, wit 4 indices each - we can in principal pull the whole data in 16 * RTT02:24
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lifelesskiko: anyhow, my performance figures so far back up this strategy; I can push from here to london only 25% slower than rsync, and thats without much tuning at all02:46
kikolifeless, that's pretty sweet. good job!02:46
kikolifeless, I was wondering if the larger pack size doesn't hurt on local operations too though -- it should of course02:46
lifelesstotal data is the same02:47
lifelessso the page cache pressure cannot be worse02:47
lifelesshowever the number of files is smaller02:47
lifelessso there's less dentries to care about02:47
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lifelessnight all03:15
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ignashow do i revert a bzr checkout to some older date?04:06
bwintonbzr help revert04:08
gabe_bzr revert -r 4504:08
bwintonfollowed by: bzr help revisionspec04:08
gabe_for example?04:08
bwintonI think he meant more "bzr revert -r date:yesterday", Gabe...04:09
bwintonOr "bzr revert -r date:2007-08-14,17:10:14"...04:09
ignasbwinton: thank you04:10
bwintonMy pleasure!  (It's amazing what bzr help will tell you...  I swear it's one of my favourite features...)04:10
ignasbwinton: indeed, just that it was "Waaah, it's broken, how do i make it work again" situation ;)04:11
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=== Topic for #bzr: The Bazaar Version Control System | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | Bazaar 0.90 is out - http://bazaar-vcs.org/releases/src/bzr-0.90.tar.gz | Please complete the Bazaar User Survey - http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=L94RvLswhKdktrxiHWiX3g_3d_3d
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ubotuNew bug: #135891 in bzr "bzr 0.9.0 package blows up" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13589107:55
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jkakarSo, it looks like the problem I reported above (#135891) has resulted in a completely b0rked bzr install.09:04
jkakarI'm getting this complaint when I try to run bzr: bzr: ERROR: Couldn't import bzrlib and dependencies.09:05
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jkakarI guess the quickest/easiest thing I can do is download a tarball from the website and munge my PYTHONPATH.09:05
bwintonI thought the quicker fix would be to add the Files line, and re-install...09:08
bwinton(I'm looking up the message on gmane for you, but there was a thread about it earlier today...)09:10
jkakarbwinton: Oh, maybe you're right.09:11
jkakarbwinton: Thanks for looking up the message.09:11
datojkakar: try this:09:12
bwinton(Sadly, it looks like the web interface is down...)09:12
jkakarbwinton: I found it (in my mail), thanks.09:12
dato# echo "Files: /usr/share/doc/bzr/html/*.html" >>/usr/share/doc-base/bzr09:12
dato# dpkg --configure -a09:12
bwintonNo worries.  I'm glad you could find it.09:12
jkakardato: Thanks!09:13
datoI'm fairly confident it will work, but please report back :)09:13
jkakardato: Not quite.09:14
jkakar$ sudo echo "Files: /usr/share/doc/bzr/html/*.html" >>/usr/share/doc-base/bzr09:14
jkakarbash: /usr/share/doc-base/bzr: Permission denied09:14
jkakarEditing the file by hand with 'sudo emacs ...' works. :)09:14
datoright, you cant use >> with sudo09:14
datosince the >> runs as your user09:14
bwintonCan't you do something along the lines of "sudo ( cat ... >> foo )", to spawn a root process?09:15
datobwinton: yes. eg. sudo bash -c "echo "Files: /usr/share/doc/bzr/html/*.html" >>/usr/share/doc-base/bzr"09:15
jkakarbwinton, dato: Thanks for the help; I'm happy and unblocked. :)09:17
bwintonMy pleasure.09:18
bwintonHey, is it possible for a mere mortal to run a Launchpad instance of their own?09:18
bwintoni.e. if I wanted something Launchpad-y for my company's private internal source code...09:19
Odd_Blokebwinton: Nope, Launchpad isn't Free software yet for precisely that reason.09:19
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bwintonWait, for precisely which reason?09:19
Odd_BlokeIt's intended to be a central point of development which doesn't work so well if there are several hundred of them. :p09:20
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tetron|macI get a syntax error trying to set up bzr on OS X.  something about 'from bzrlib.symbol_versioning import (deprecated_function,'  ?09:20
bwintonSo it's aiming more to be a Sourceforge, and less to be a Trac?09:20
jkakarbwinton: I recommend you talk to emurphy@canonical.com about private commercial access to LP.09:21
jkakarbwinton: He's statik on freenode, and often present in this channel.09:21
bwintonjkakar: Thanks.  I probably won't since my company is still using VSS, but it's good to know that there's a contact for that sort of thing...09:22
tetron|macthis is with bzr 0.90, the latest release...  and stock Python 2.4.4 on OS X.  is this a known bug?09:22
jkakarbwinton: Oh, VSS is so sad.  I feel for you. :)09:22
bwintonYeah.  The server went down one day, and the whole office stopped working for a couple of hours...  Actually, it was kind of nice...  :)09:23
tetron|macanyone?  anyone have any idea why "setup.py" on bzr 0.90 just totally fails?09:26
bwintonWhich platform, what's the error message?09:29
bwintonSorry, OSX, failed import...09:29
bwintonNo idea.  I can say that it works for me on OSX.  But that's not exactly helpful, is it?09:29
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tetron|macnever mind, I think I know what's wrong09:30
bwintonI'm on Python 2.4.3, installed as a framework.09:30
bwintonYeah?  What was it?09:30
tetron|macit's suddenly decided to revert to using the system Python 2.3.5...  I swear I have 2.4 installed though09:31
bwintonYeah...  I get that a lot too.  I've gone so far as to put /Library/Frameworks/Python.Framework/Versions/Current/... in the #! line of a bunch of my cgi scripts...09:32
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g0ph3rerm... i'm not sure but it seems that bzr got recently updated (to 0.90) on my ubuntu box, which seems to have broken my bzr installation. i'm unable to run it and i see dpkg errors in synaptic... is this related to the earlier thread here? (in other words: can i fix this issue by the echo command above?)09:40
datog0ph3r: yes09:40
bwintongopher: Give it a try, and let us know.  ;)09:40
g0ph3rok, will do so09:40
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g0ph3rok, this fixed it. synaptic now completed the package setup and i'm able to run bzr now...09:45
g0ph3ris there somewhere where this should/needs to be tracked as a bug09:46
datog0ph3r: it's reported already, https://launchpad.net/bugs/13589109:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 135891 in bzr "bzr 0.9.0 package blows up" [Undecided,New] 09:46
g0ph3rok, just left a comment with the error message that bzr threw (at least for me) for others to easier find this bug... seems i missed it since my search didn't find the error message :)09:52
g0ph3rthanks a lot for your help folks!09:52
ddaaIs it valid to have a branch reference point to a path, or are only file: URIs accepted for local references?10:14
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lifelessddaa: URL's only10:21
beunoyay! my patch seems to have fixed bug #107155. I should use bzr bundle to generate the patch and send it?10:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107155 in bzr "_get_vendor_by_inspection incorrectly determines "plink" to be the executable" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10715510:21
lifelessbeuno: bzr send10:21
ddaalifeless: thx10:21
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beunolifeless, great, thanks10:22
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beunolifeless, bzr won't send it directly, right?  I have to generate the patch file first and attach it to an email?10:23
lifelessit will fire up your mail client10:25
lifelessif you have bzr.dev10:25
beunowierd, it doesn't...  I'll just add -o and send it manually like last time10:26
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abentleybeuno: What happened when you tried send without -o?11:54
lifelessmorning abentley11:56
beunoabentley, it opened up nano11:56
lifelessabentley: interesting performance note11:57
beunoaaah, wait, I needed to write my message there  :p11:57
beunoI'm not very bright today11:57
lifelesstime to write 1MB of data in python - as a single block of bytes - 19usec. Time to write 1MB of 1000 lines using writelines - 500usec, Time to ''.join(lines) then write - 620usec.11:57
lifelessbeuno: :)11:58
beunoI wrote the patch yesterday though  :p11:58
abentleybeuno: If you install xdg-utils, it will use your default mail client.  It also can be configured directly for Thunderbird, Evolution and Kmail.11:59
beunoabentley, great, installing now, thanks12:00
beunoworks perfectly  :D  (is that a suggested in the deb package?)12:00
datono, this conv. reminded me of that, thanks12:01
datobut gnite now12:02

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