[10:55] <lapo> hi
[11:13] <lassegul> hi
[11:25] <lapo> kwwii_: any news about the default bg?
[12:27] <kwwii_> lapo: still working on some new stuff
[12:28] <kwwii_> lapo: btw, if you need any changes in tangerine you can talk to me  - dholbach is kinda changing positions within the company
[12:31] <lapo> ok, cool
[12:34] <kwwii_> on monday he is going to start training me so I can go for MOTU :-)
[12:34] <kwwii_> so I get to become a real geek
[12:34] <lapo> eheh
[12:35] <lapo> kwwii_: make sure your hacking side will not prevail tho, or we will loose a graphician :-)
[12:36] <kwwii_> hehe, no worries
[12:37] <andreasn> kwwii_: will that be accompanied by the "Eye of the Tiger"-song ;)
[12:37] <kwwii_> andreasn: yes, and funky pics of me in a jogging suit running and sweating
[12:38] <andreasn> hahaha
[12:42] <lapo> kwwii_: try shouting "adriana"
[12:42] <kwwii_> lapo: my wife Petra might look at me funny ;-)
[12:43] <lapo> kwwii_: not that funny eventually :-)
[12:45] <kwwii_> it almost scares me that I will become responsible for all the artwork packaging
[12:45] <kwwii_> luckily there are not too many packages
[12:46] <lapo> kwwii_: tango common really needs to be killed, so one down eventually :-)
[12:47] <kwwii_> and once I do it for Ubuntu, I just know that kubuntu, gobuntu, and edubuntu will want me to do the same for them
[12:51] <lapo> kwwii: ok, you're in trouble then, good luck :-)
[12:52] <kwwii> I'll do my best
[01:01] <lapo> j #ubuntu-desktop
[01:01] <lapo> ehm sorry
[01:02] <lassegul> kwwii: have you had time to do some more work on gutys wallpapers?
[01:02] <kwwii> lassegul: yes, I have been working on that as well - there will be a few new pics along the lines of "brownfluid" coming soon
[01:07] <lassegul> kwwii: Thats good. I suggest you use a little less white in your colours. what you threw up on the wiki looks a little dull. im really looking forward to see what you do!
[01:22] <troy_s> Does the 'go' in gobuntu short for 'go'odchrist?
[01:22] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gobuntu_logo
[01:25] <andreasn> what's a Gobuntu?
[01:25] <lassegul> andreasn: Gobuntu is an official derivative of the Ubuntu operating system, aiming to provide a distribution consisting entirely of free software.
[01:26] <andreasn> ah, that one. I think Richard mentioned it
[01:28] <lassegul> troy_s: why should it be short for goodchrist?
[01:28] <troy_s> lassegul: Rather like someone smacking their head and screaming out 'good f-ing christ'
[01:29] <troy_s> lassegul: Those could be the most naff set of logo attempts I have ever seen.
[01:36] <kwwii> hi troy_s
[01:36] <kwwii> troy_s: why did you take down your wallpaper? It was one of the best ones on the page
[01:37] <kwwii> btw, if anyone is interested here is the usplash I whipped up for gobuntu:
[01:37] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gobuntu_usplash.svg
[01:38] <lassegul> which wp was that?
[01:38] <kwwii> gobuntu is the ubuntu for people who get picky about everything being completely free and OSS in their linux
[01:49] <troy_s> kwwii: It just was too far off the beaten track as given by the samples.  And it needed to be pushed a little further along finished.
[01:50] <troy_s> kwwii: Good christ -- does sab insist on the progress bars?
[01:50] <kwwii> troy_s: erm, progress bars in the usplash you mean?
[01:50] <troy_s> kwwii: Yes.
[01:51] <kwwii> troy_s: I was looking for the SVG of your background to work on some ideas...any chance I could download it somewhere?
[01:51] <troy_s> kwwii: The arch has quite a bit of flexibility, but no one has challenged it yet.
[01:51] <troy_s> kwwii: We did a pretty impressive one for Flux, but it isn't out yet.
[01:51] <kwwii> troy_s: no, we could use a spinner (or whatever you call it) too but someone would have to program it first
[01:52] <kwwii> troy_s: cool, can't wait to see it
[01:52] <troy_s> kwwii: Yeah.  The optics on gobuntu's design look like they are already out of the gate with a limp.  The recycling bin arrows just leave me going 'wtf'.  It seems as though the brainstorm phase was rather crippled.
[01:53] <kwwii> the gobuntu usplash was a case of "the one they had looked really bad" and I was told not to work on that too much as it should be totaly community driven
[01:53] <troy_s> kwwii: I don't know where sab sees 'recycle' (rather strong motif at this point) mixed with 'freedom'
[01:53] <troy_s> lol
[01:53] <troy_s> hrm.
[01:53] <troy_s> interesting.
[01:53] <lassegul> troy_s: whos in charge?
[01:53] <troy_s> lassegul: Not the guy to ask about anything Canonical does.  Kwwii is.
[01:53] <kwwii> troy_s: I do not think that he had much to do with that, really
[01:53] <lassegul> troy_s: ok
[01:53] <troy_s> lassegul: As far as I can see, Ubuntu is doomed by the decision makers -- being two figures.
[01:54] <lassegul> troy_s: and those two are?
[01:54] <kwwii> my personal opinion about gobuntu is that it was created so people would stop complaining about the restricted drivers in Ubuntu
[01:54] <troy_s> kwwii: It is sad that sab is pushing towards brown fluid (which is again -- soooooo bloody dated) -- your textured / atomic rings were interesting I thought.
[01:54] <troy_s> kwwii: That said, that elephant texture caught me off guard.
[01:55] <kwwii> troy_s: actually, he has not responded on the brownfluid stuff - but I assume that it is closest to what he will like
[01:55] <kwwii> yeah, the elephant tex looks pretty killer, just not sure about the link to africa
[01:55] <troy_s> kwwii: Yeah... it's pretty simple -- figure out what was the mainstream acceptable Win95 wallpaper from about 10 years prior to the date of launch.
[01:55] <troy_s> lol
[01:55] <kwwii> we really want to stick to something more abstract
[01:55] <troy_s> kwwii: The african thing is bong.  The texture itself has much to work out of.
[01:56] <kwwii> true
[01:56] <troy_s> kwwii: Although it is rather uniform in presentation there.  I would think you could do some sort of vignette work with it in layers or something... who knows.  It would need some brainstorming exploration.
[01:56] <lassegul> kwwii: is there a problem as to putting it as secondary wallpaper, like chocolate is for feisty and dawn was for edgy?
[01:56] <kwwii> lassegul: in the end, the full decision rests on sabdfl...I can kinda point people in the direction that I think he will like, little more than that
[01:56] <troy_s> lassegul: chocolate was another abortion attempt by jmak to meet some sabdfl driving.
[01:56] <kwwii> lassegul: nope, no problems with that at all
[01:57] <troy_s> (of which I had the displeasure of participating in a portion of that mess.)
[01:57] <kwwii> once again, I will tell everyone that we can include additional artwork from the community without any problems - if anyone would just step up and work on it
[01:58] <lassegul> how does a detailed a crisp picture like the elephant thing look when its downscaled to 1024x768? and what is the default size WPs are shipped in?
[01:58] <kwwii> it seems that people are only interested in working on the stuff that will be default
[01:58] <troy_s> kwwii: I would be impressed if someone would at least work out of the damn samples presented (aside from that gag dapper wall lol)
[01:58] <kwwii> if nothing else, in another week or so I will take the ones I think are best and put them in a community artwork package
[01:58] <troy_s> kwwii: Those two wallpapers are at least a step towards communication.
[01:59] <kwwii> troy_s: agreed
[01:59] <troy_s> kwwii: I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt though -- until someone reads a fundamental bloody piece of literature of how colours are presented in the human mind, Ubuntu is doomed to hear the 'I can't stand brown' argument again and again.
[02:00] <kwwii> troy_s: not to be mean, but I was wondering what people were thinking...we posted those older wallpapers and then people kept submitting blue stuff and things completely off-track
[02:00] <troy_s> kwwii: Without a supporting cast of NON BROWN colours (obviously keeping brown as a base), the tone will lose its impact and be tuned out.
[02:00] <troy_s> kwwii: Yep.  It is again, fine for a brainstorm.
[02:00] <troy_s> kwwii: The problem is, again, no driving.
[02:01] <kwwii> troy_s: yes, we definitely need to move on and expand our colors from brown on brown
[02:01] <lassegul> troy_s: how about making the goal a little clearer. because i cant really see what you mean by "working out of the damn samples". I used the colours, and i thought i would add a little gloss, and then i thought i liked darker colours, and so it kinda evolved. so it started from the samples
[02:01] <troy_s> lassegul: The samples are pretty clear.
[02:01] <lassegul> troy_s: then everyone else is just stupid?
[02:02] <troy_s> lassegul: In my brain I see largely two things -- a certain 'mystical / magical' impact from the sweeps.
[02:02] <troy_s> lassegul: And perhaps a tinkering of 'awe' conjured up from those rather awe inspiring images of nebulae / starforms.
[02:02] <kwwii> lassegul: I think that of all the pics on the wiki yours are probably the closest, in color, to what we need
[02:03] <kwwii> but for Gutsy we really need to look at the ideas of luminance and a bit of the design ideas from the older pics
[02:03] <troy_s> lassegul: But in terms of _every_ sample on that wiki, not one vaguely hammers home any of those keystones.
[02:03] <lassegul> troy_s: Ok, thats a lot easier then
[02:04] <troy_s> lassegul: Further, gloss is dead.  I will give kwwii full credit for abolishing most of the gloss in Ubuntu.
[02:04] <kwwii> gloss is sooo 2000
[02:04] <kwwii> :p
[02:04] <troy_s> lassegul: It reeks of 1950-1960 boraxification.
[02:04] <troy_s> lassegul: During that era, the consumers were flooded with chroming / glossing of _everything_.  It quickly became tacky.
[02:05] <lassegul> troy_s: :)
[02:05] <troy_s> lassegul: Which is where that fecking reflection floor / gloss is.
[02:05] <troy_s> lassegul: Unfortunately, mainstream only has about two large design directions to see -- Windows and Apple.  Free Software has the potential to offer them sooooo many more alternatives.
[02:05] <lassegul> troy_s: i think you still can add some shine to things and still look good.
[02:05] <kwwii> troy_s: as far as driving things go, as soon as I felt I had a good chance at starting that I was given enough work to overload and kill any real hope of managing things like that
[02:06] <troy_s> lassegul: That said, simply abandoning gloss isn't an end unto itself.  It must be filled with another distinct and well evolved style.
[02:06] <lassegul> troy_s: fedora did the sharp edges and cool vector shapes thing
[02:06] <troy_s> lassegul: Good luck on that.  I encourage you to have a peek at some of the more contemporary / avante garde design work out there.
[02:06] <lassegul> troy_s: we want magical lights?
[02:07] <troy_s> lassegul: if anything you will see a migration to an almost art-deco / constructionist two dimensionality.
[02:07] <lassegul> troy_s: do you have an example? (never attended art school)
[02:07] <troy_s> lassegul: Ask kwwii -- he pretty much offered up the two samples.  The idea would probably be to knock something off in identical stylings but different in execution.
[02:07] <troy_s> lassegul: Erk.  Maybe.  (I really should bed.)  Give me a second.
[02:08] <lassegul> troy_s: thanks
[02:08] <troy_s> http://www.exhibitbuilder.net/Images/Jill_Art_JPG/MR_ART_DECO_2.jpg http://www.hgd.com/gallery/images_gallery/art_deco_lady_silver_250.jpg
[02:08] <troy_s> thats deco more or less
[02:09] <troy_s> although the entire movement goes much further than artwork -- into furniture etc.
[02:09] <troy_s> http://www.pauahtun.org/Exile/soviet-commercial-design-1a.jpg
[02:09] <lassegul> omg thats horrble :)
[02:09] <troy_s> that's constructivism.
[02:09] <lassegul> ah  thats nice
[02:09] <troy_s> well it is only nice because you are starting to see it again
[02:10] <troy_s> lol
[02:10] <troy_s> that is how fickle art consumption is.
[02:11] <lassegul> troy_s: me and a buddy made this for our organisation once http://spiderrico.deviantart.com/art/Kraftsosialisme-40531830
[02:13] <lassegul> and this one: http://spiderrico.deviantart.com/art/Darth-Kader-2-40532390
[02:13] <lassegul> is this something like what you had in mind?
[02:14] <troy_s> lassegul: I have no control of anything and therefore I have nothing 'in mind'.
[02:14] <troy_s> darth-kader is very constructivist however.
[02:14] <troy_s> lassegul: You are cueing on a style that has been repeated many many times.
[02:14] <troy_s> lassegul: And it was entirely successful during its era.
[02:15] <lassegul> troy_s: what era is that? (the pictura is about 2 or 3 years old)
[02:15] <troy_s> lassegul: Contemporary design is somewhere in a mix that I would estimate is 2 parts constructivism, 1 part art deco (which took MANY cues from constructivism), and 1.5 parts 60s psychedelia.
[02:16] <lassegul> troy_s: ok, I think maybe ill have to read up on this to understand it.
[02:16] <troy_s> lassegul: If you are interested in art, I would encourage you to pick up some references and learn a little about art history.  The upside is that you will learn very quickly that art doesn't exist in a vacuum.  Major 'movements' are always a reaction / statement to something contemporary societally.
[02:17] <troy_s> lassegul: Hell -- even what many call 'classic composition' is rooted in a movement that took place during the Renaissance.
[02:18] <troy_s> lassegul: The point is that when someone says something is 'pretty' or 'beautiful' it is always much more deeply rooted in societal values and learned behavior.
[02:19] <troy_s> lassegul: And those societal values / contexts are constantly changing.  Ok... must jet.  Good night.
[02:19] <troy_s> Night kwwii.
[02:19] <troy_s> et al.
[02:20] <kwwii> night troy_s
[02:22] <lassegul> nigt troy_s
[02:33] <lassegul> kwwii: but isnt design more equal to fashion than art,like what looks good is much more defined what the designers tend to design that year, than social change? Like the mac effect, when everybode wanted to make things look an ipod og a macbook?
[02:35] <lassegul> art in soviet 1920s was defined by the revolution, desiging every bit of text with a reflection underneath it was just a trend this year, not some social change..
[02:36] <lassegul> or am i making a nonexisting divide between art and design?
[02:37] <kwwii> lassegul: I think that there are some similarities but as you mention, there is a difference between art and design
[02:38] <kwwii> and I do think that the general trends in design change over time according to art, so in order to stay ahead of things it is important to see what is current in the art world
[02:42] <kwwii> another important aspect is to see the design of the devices that the design will be displayed on as that plays a role in things as well
[02:42] <kwwii> the wallpaper alone does not stand on its own
[02:43] <lassegul> kwwii: thats true
[02:43] <lassegul> kwwii: and interesting...
[02:53] <lassegul> kwwii: dont know much about art, i think much of it is arrogant, and in fact so are many of the artists. But lets say: 2008 was the year of the green and dark macabre art. how would that affect the design world? remeber this is just a hyphotetical answer so just make a scenario..
[02:55] <lassegul> kwwii: because i dont remember neither blue, magic lights or gloss being very popular in arts the last 10 years, even though they were the big thing a couple of years ago.
[02:55] <kwwii> I would say that perhaps the macabre part would show up a bit...the green part really depends on branding more than just art
[02:55] <kwwii> lassegul: good point
[02:56] <lassegul> kwwii: ill go take a cigarette. be back in 5.
[02:57] <kwwii> enjoy
[03:02] <lassegul> it was good
[03:03] <kwwii> luckily I have an office that I can smoke in :-)
[03:05] <lassegul> What? where do you work? what country is this?
[03:05] <lassegul> we have to go out, and stand 10 metres from the building because of the aircon
[03:06] <kwwii> I live in Germany, but work from home anyway
[03:06] <lassegul> well arent you the lucky one.
[03:06] <kwwii> :p
[03:07] <lassegul> what program is used to make the breezy and warty wallpapers? is it just vector or is it vector with bitmap editing later on?
[03:08] <kwwii> it is bitmap stuff, done in either photoshop or gimp
[03:09] <lassegul> I forced myself to learn GIMP and Inkscape because i wanted to contribute, and youre telling me those might be made in photoshop? ;-)
[03:10] <kwwii> hehe, naturally you can use any tools you find helpful
[03:12] <kwwii> but of course we would prefer if people used open source tools when possible
[03:13] <lassegul> I thought i wasnt going to do any bitmap editing because everything i do in gimp just looks rotten
[03:15] <kwwii> yeah, I often switch between photoshop and gimp when I cannot get what I need from gimp
[03:15] <kwwii> most important is the artwork itself, not which program you used to make it
[03:16] <lassegul> I thought that was to admit defeat
[03:16] <kwwii> lol, never give up!
[03:16] <lassegul> do you wine photosho`p?
[03:17] <lassegul> *'
[03:17] <kwwii> nope, I have two macs :-)
[03:18] <lassegul> PS, here i come. wonder if I can get CS2 to work with wine
[03:19] <kwwii> no idea
[03:20] <kwwii> just updated that page with a LOT of pics from Joseph
[03:20] <lassegul> nice
[03:24] <lassegul> 1868 2361 4890 8363 5025 these are a little interesting, but still it just looks like someone made a brown background and drawed on it with some lighten-tool.
[03:25] <lassegul> they are just sketches, right?
[03:27] <kwwii> yepp, we still need to make the final artwork if something like this is chosen
[03:27] <kwwii> they are all based on photographs :-)
[03:27] <kwwii> funky, eh?
[03:30] <lassegul> yeah, what is it pictures of? flames?
[03:36] <kwwii> it is a slow exposure of light
[03:39] <lassegul> Downloading PS now, is it ok if i steal an idea from one of those and make it into my own version?
[03:40] <kwwii> sure, no problem
[03:43] <kwwii> ok, I am off for a while, bbl
[03:44] <lassegul> see you
[11:35] <titanix88_> hello! help me sumitting my wallpaper.
[11:43] <kwwii> titanix88_: what kind of help do you need?
[11:43] <kwwii> just add it to the wiki
[11:45] <titanix88_> kwwii: just figured out how to attach. thnx. u can see it in gusty incoming -wiredubuntu.comments plz.
[11:46] <kwwii> hrm? gusty incoming -wiredubuntu.comments??? not sure what you mean
[11:46] <titanix88_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas#preview
[11:47] <titanix88_> the last submission :)
[11:47] <kwwii> ahhh, now I see
[11:47] <kwwii> for edubuntu
[11:47] <kwwii> right?
[11:47] <titanix88_> yes
[11:48] <kwwii> I think it would look nice with a different colored bg
[11:49] <titanix88_> suggestions:
[11:49] <kwwii> the logo itself looks nice, although normally we do not use wallpapers with big prominent logos on them
[11:49] <kwwii> something more reddish brown as background would be an improvement in any case
[11:50] <titanix88_> it was done with blender.i have the .blend file.so no prblm.
[11:51] <titanix88_> what's ur speciality?gimp/blender/inkscape
[11:53] <titanix88_> sorry cause i disturbed u with private chat.let's take it to room.
[11:53] <kwwii> I do a lot of inscape and gimp...for 3D stuff I usually use other tools
[11:54] <kwwii> no worries, this is the place to discuss this stuff
[11:54] <titanix88_> kwwii: other 3d? like k3d,wings3d?
[11:57] <kwwii> no, like cinema4D
[11:57] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:57] <kwwii> omg, non-free software
[11:57] <kwwii> !
[11:57] <kwwii> I earned a lot of money with that software and I find it worth it ;-)
[11:58] <titanix88_> blender does not satisfy u????!!!!!!!!!!!i can't beleive it.
[11:59] <titanix88_> anyway u seem to be a pro and i am just the one sumitting my first contrib. So don't count me.
[11:59] <titanix88_> r u a pro artist?
[12:01] <titanix88_> belive it or not i still don't know how to use uv textures in blender ;)
[12:03] <titanix88_> lot of people = lot of silence
[12:08] <kwwii> titanix88_: yes, I used to do a lot of work on tv commercials and music videos
[12:09] <kwwii> but lately I have done more design work and photography than anything else
[12:09] <kwwii> I think that c4d has the nicest modeller I can find
[12:09] <kwwii> blender is certainly good but I have not time to learn the interface
[12:09] <kwwii> and I would never try to make a music video with it
[12:10] <kwwii> or any open source modeller unless I had the money to pay devs to work ont the effects I need
[12:10] <kwwii> erm, renderer, I mean
[12:10] <titanix88_> i am a mechanical ug with oss as hobby.
[12:11] <titanix88_> kwii: have u seen the orange movie1?
[12:11] <titanix88_> one thing is right. wired interface.
[12:13] <titanix88_> have u ever used maya or 3dmax? i heared their the best.
[12:13] <titanix88_> sorry, they are the best.