mneptokhave to learn to live. reach into the light. changing all the time.12:33
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TomaszDHi. I'm looking for Michael Vogt or someone responsible for displayconfig-gtk12:47
TomaszDI was wondering why isn't a translation template available for this application12:47
Kmostalk to mvo12:47
TomaszDmvo, if you are responsible for displayconfig-gtk, why isn't there a translation template available?12:48
TomaszDis a translation still considered a moving target?12:48
mvoTomaszD: let me have a look12:49
TomaszDmvo, sure. It's just that it stands out terribly among other, translated modules in the menu12:49
TomaszDand it's an essential part of the system now, so it should be available for translation, I guess12:50
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mvoTomaszD: its missing from launchpad (the translation template)?12:54
TomaszDmvo, https://translations.launchpad.net/~displayconfig-gtk/12:54
TomaszDit's not there or am I looking in the wrong place?12:54
beunoTomaszD: it's the wrong URL, but it still seems not to have translations: https://launchpad.net/displayconfig-gtk/12:56
mvoit looks like some missing magic in the debian/rules file12:56
=== mvo goes to fix it
TomaszDah, I see. "Translation setup needed"12:56
TomaszDmvo, thank you! I'll be going now, it's 1AM...12:57
mvoTomaszD: yeah, for me too12:57
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alex-weejdoko: you up?03:58
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ion_An entertaining talk about version control systems (with emphasis on git, obviously) from Linus Torvalds: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 (http://ash-v131.ash.youtube.com/get_video?video_id=4XpnKHJAok8). Not exactly on-topic, sorry for that.05:22
realistIs that a link to his google talk?05:23
realistWay off topic - way old news :-)05:25
realistStill a good presentation though!05:25
realistEspecially where he ridicules code.google, and svn - knowing that the developers for both are in the audience05:26
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Toadstoolnice any call to hwclock on my tx1215nr makes the system freeze with "/dev/rtc does not have interrupt functions. Waiting in loop for time to change in /dev/rtc." :/05:50
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=== Hobbsee waves
RAOFIt's hobbseemaster flash!08:52
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HobbseeRAOF: coming to slug tomorrow?08:53
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RAOFAwesome.  What an excellent conjunction.  SpockSoc's playing _Invasion_ which was crap :)08:54
RAOFYou may well see me there :)08:54
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RAOFOooh, lifeless is talking.  Cool.08:58
highvoltageRAOF: where is that?08:59
RAOFhighvoltage: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=173-185+Sussex+Street,+Sydney+NSW+200008:59
RAOFHigh-performance python!09:00
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moyogohi, anybody in charge of xkeyboard-config around?09:22
Hobbseeprobably a little aerly for that09:23
moyogook :-)09:24
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Hobbseegood morning seb128, fabbione09:44
seb128hey Hobbsee09:45
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seb128hi fabbione09:52
seb128Hobbsee: do we have a list of bugs nominated for gutsy and waiting to be approved or not somewhere?09:52
Hobbseeseb128: um, there would be a list somewhere yes, but like i siad on that bugmail, we really dont use it09:53
Hobbseewe tend to only use it a little for tribes - but choose to use the milestone stuff instead09:53
seb128what bugmail?09:53
seb128what tribe?09:53
seb128maybe my question was not clear ;)09:53
seb128you know, you can nominate a task for gutsy09:54
seb128and then it's listed with an approve or decline option09:54
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seb128re Hobbsee10:04
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | UVF in place | Tribe 5 out
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Riddell at Thu Aug 23 23:56:29 2007
=== #ubuntu-devel [freenode-info] if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
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RiddellRAOF: what standard does KDE not follow?10:59
RAOFViewports, IIRC.10:59
RAOFMaking the KDE workspace switcher get freaked out under Compiz11:00
Kmoscan someone have a look at bug 12957211:00
ubotuLaunchpad bug 129572 in powertop "Please sync powertop (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12957211:00
HobbseeKmos: is it urgent?11:01
KmosHobbsee: ups, it's already acked 2 times11:01
KmosHobbsee: no11:01
HobbseeKmos: and why would the general motu-uvf people be here?11:01
HobbseeKmos: i thought seb128 told you about bringing up bugs that were not urgent, but that were $yourpetbugs.11:02
KmosHobbsee: because you don't check my bugs? and jono told me to ask anything I want here11:02
HobbseeKmos: i do, occasionally.11:02
Hobbseei prefer not to, but i do regardless.11:03
KmosHobbsee: i just want to finish these ones, because I won't file syncs anymore.11:03
Hobbseethey will be finished. just be patient, and accept that people have other things to do too.11:03
KmosHobbsee: yeah, like me now.. need to go, and getdeb will have more updates today.11:03
seb128Kmos: ubuntu-archive has been subscribed less than 1 day ago, you need a little patience ;)11:04
Kmosseb128: I see that 1 minute ago, sorry.. i just need to wait now11:04
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dokoiwj: please could you review the MIRs for drac and libwpg?11:09
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ogradoko, if you rebuild mknbi, you might want mkelfimage as well11:16
ogra(even though i suspect there are not many netbooting lpia machines with LinuxBIOS yet :) )11:17
dokoogra: already built for lpia11:17
ograoh, ok11:17
ograi just saw the mknbi one, sorry11:17
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iwjdoko: Sure.11:31
dokoiwj: thanks, I asked tkamppeter to to write one for cupsddk (b-d of splix) as well11:36
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dokoseb128: who's usually doing the Gtk Perl stuff?12:12
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wolfeinput hot plugging!12:18
wolfehell has froze over!12:18
wolfeI can't wait for Version 1.4 of the X server :) maybe I'll just built it myself12:18
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TomaszDglatzor_, hey I noticed you're also responsible for displayconfig-gtk. I told mvo yesterday that there's no translation template in rosetta available and he said he'll fix it but nothing changed in Rosetta, so I'm thinking that maybe he forgot and you could do this, there seems to be some missing debian/rules magic missing. The webpage is https://translations.launchpad.net/displayconfig-gtk/12:25
TomaszD:] 12:25
glatzor_TomaszD: thanks. we just need to upload it.12:26
TomaszDglatzor_, ok, ETA on this? This is quite urgent you know :] 12:26
glatzor_TomaszD: perhaps tomorrow. I want to fix some bugs before.12:27
TomaszDglatzor, alright. Thanks.12:27
TomaszDjust keep in on the radar please, this isn't a thing to forget ;] 12:27
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glatzorTomaszD: you don't need to be afraid of this12:30
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glatzorTomaszD: if you want to keep track of this issue subscribe to LP #13457612:32
TomaszDglatzor, great tip, thanks12:32
Riddellseb128: upstream says there's a fix to the gtk API change, do you know where I could find it? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=463773#c1012:32
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seb128doko: nobody12:37
seb128Riddell: there is no gtk API breakage12:37
seb128Riddell: it's just making issues with incorrect usage where it was not12:37
seb128it's on my list of things to look at though12:38
Riddellok, there's a fix to the change which makes flash and acroread break :)12:38
seb128that's not upstream12:38
seb128I think this guy is working for some non major distro12:38
seb128or bsd or something12:38
Riddellanyway, if you help me find that patch I can test it12:38
seb128dunno what he patched and where12:38
jdstrandhi infinity12:39
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jdstrandin the ubuntu-server meeting the other day, they suggested I issue a bug report for the LAMP test page12:40
seb128Riddell: well the comment is clear enough, how do one trigger the bug? I can test a change if I know how to test12:40
jdstrandif you haven't seen it yet, it is bug #13562412:40
Riddellseb128: testcase is here https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=294385#c5512:40
jdstrandbug 13562412:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 135624 in php5 "should provide LAMP test page" [Low,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13562412:41
ubotuNovell bug 294385 in GNOME "glib2 busyloops, blocking Konqueror and Opera on flash sites" [Blocker,Assigned] 12:41
seb128Riddell: have you seen http://people.mandriva.com/~boiko/patches/kdebase-3.5.7-fix_flashplayer_nsplugin.patch ?12:42
Riddellseb128: yes, but adding a dependency from kde to gtk is an ugly ugly workaround12:42
saispolol seb128 :)12:42
seb128hi saispo12:42
seb128saispo: why "lol"?12:42
saispohi ;)12:43
saispoyou use mandriva patches ? :p12:43
Riddellwe use patches from wherever they come from, if they fix problems12:43
seb128Riddell: the comment you pointed shows that libflashplayer is buggy, it doesn't give a way to trigger the bug12:43
seb128saispo: why not? ;) In fact I don't, GNOME works fine, I suggest a workaround for kubuntu12:44
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saisposeb128: yes i see :)12:44
moyogoanybody in charge of xkeyboard-config around?12:45
Riddellseb128: novell 294385#c55?  it has test code in it to recreate the issue (regardless of who's fault the issue is)12:45
ubotuNovell bug 294385 in GNOME "glib2 busyloops, blocking Konqueror and Opera on flash sites" [Blocker,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=29438512:45
seb128Riddell: right, I was being lazy and wondering if that happens with real world applications in Ubuntu12:46
moyogoit would be nice to have the latest xkb-data to have the new keyboard layouts in gusty12:46
seb128like something I can install, run, notice it's buggy12:46
Riddellseb128: well yes, flash in non gtk browsers and acroread12:46
moyogolike gn which allows to type Nko for example12:46
moyogothat would help localizers to work with gusty12:46
cjwatsonmoyogo: I'll have a look in a bit - on the phone now12:47
cjwatson(I don't do xkeyboard-config as such but I do console-setup which is related)12:47
seb128"expr: syntax error" when running acroread12:47
seb128Riddell: acroread is not the same issue and will not be fixed by this change12:49
seb128they access to GTK+ internal structure in a non documented way12:49
seb128and bad luck for them there is no stability guaranty for those12:49
Riddellseb128: ok, try opera or konqueror with flash then12:49
seb128and the tooltip API has been deprecated and replaced by a new one12:49
seb128k, will do that12:49
moyogoArneGoetje: ping12:55
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dokoiwj: cupssdk MIR is now available as well01:08
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iwjUh, Apple's CUPS is GPLv2-only ?01:13
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iwjdoko: Also approved.01:19
iwjI like these nice simple packages.01:19
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dokoiwj: do you want something more demanding, including license review?01:20
iwjPerhaps.  What would I be letting myself in for ? :-)01:21
cjwatsonlicence review is an archive admin function, surely01:22
cjwatsonit shouldn't be in universe if its licence isn't free01:22
iwjcjwatson: That was my understanding.01:22
iwjI've certainly not really been looking at licensing.  (My comment above was an aside, prompted by happening to stumble across a GPLv2 notice.)01:23
cjwatsonnot to say it isn't worth sanity-checking, but I don't think it's worth spending lots of time on deciphering legalese at the MIR stage ...01:23
cjwatson(some "free" licences have obviously had rather too many lawyers involved.)01:24
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dokoiwj: icedtea01:25
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Riddellseb128: gtk compile errors "/home/jr/src/gtk/gtk+2.0-2.11.6/modules/printbackends/cups/gtkcupsutils.c:638: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type"01:56
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manchickenAnybody know who may be able to fix network-manager issues?  I'm having a heck of a time with bug #93360.01:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 93360 in dhcdbd "Dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth1 for sub-path eth1.dbus.get.reason" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9336001:59
thommanchicken: asac01:59
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asacmanchicken: what wifi chipset?02:12
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TreenaksAlso, anybody around to look at bug 119266? I haven't had out-of-the-box sound since I upgraded this box to gutsy02:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119266 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Intel HDA Sound device doesn't work in gutsy" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11926602:14
jwendellTreenaks, it works now, since last linux-ubuntu-modules02:16
Treenaksjwendell: oh, I see the reboot icon now..02:16
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=== ogra curses debconf ...
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ogracjwatson, i'm trying to rework my udeb scripts for ltsp http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35650/ results in a ot of text output "... return: ... Illegal number" in the debconf screen, do you have any hints why that happens or where it comes from ?02:27
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cjwatsonogra: sounds like your debconf communication has got out of sync02:59
cjwatsonor something else is interfering with stdio02:59
ograoh, ok02:59
cjwatsonI'm prepared to bet large sums of money it's not debconf's fault02:59
ograsurely my fault :)03:00
cjwatsonI'm on the phone but I see one problem03:00
cjwatsonwill let you know in a bit03:00
JanDM_hi, since alsa 1.0.14 I had a problem with my sound card. So I asked on alsa-devel, and they created a patch,03:00
JanDM_but this patch is not included in ubuntus current alsa version03:00
JanDM_so i have to compile alsa myself with every kernel update,03:00
JanDM_can I ask to include it somewhere?03:01
ograJanDM_, i guess best is to discuss that in #ubuntu-kernel03:02
JanDM_okay, thank you!03:02
ogra(not sure though, depends if its for a module)03:02
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JanDM_ogra: yes it's a kernel module03:03
ograthen -kernel should be right03:03
cjwatsonogra: ok, your problem is probably that 'cat $FIFO | while read line' uses stdio, which is getting in the way of using debconf03:03
ograoh, ok03:03
cjwatsonogra: I encountered this same problem in the past in archive-copier03:03
cjwatsonogra: what you should do instead is:03:04
ograso i need to redirect that as well03:04
cjwatsonwhile read line <&9; do ...; done 9<$FIFO03:04
ograah, right03:04
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cjwatsonogra: also why is it all within 'while true'? you should probably remove that otherwise it'll just sit in an infinite loop - the 'while read line' is good enough as a loop03:04
ograyeah, thats for playing03:05
cjwatsonogra: you also might want to put 'rm $FIFO' before 'exit 0' ;-)03:05
ograi had that in two scripts initially, echoing stuff to the fifo :)03:05
ograyeap, what i have here locally evolved already a bit :)03:05
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ScottKMithrandir: If you have a minute to look into a licensing question, I've consulted a couple of other MOTUs and were are unsure if http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=139 would be suitable for multiverse or not.  Technically the package is ~OK, so I wanted to get a read on if it could be accepted in the archive before I pushed on the packager to fix it up some more.03:08
Riddell"It is NOT PERMITTED to distribute ANY OF THESE FILES for commercial (or profit) purposes." I think that's ok for multiverse, although elmo will know for sure03:10
ogracjwatson, works (outside of d-i at least) thanks a lot :)03:10
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cjwatsonogra: you're welcome03:12
ScottKRiddell: Thanks.03:13
elmoRiddell: that's ok for multiverse, assuming permission for non-{commercial,profit} purposes is granted03:14
ScottKelmo: That's, I think, the real question.03:14
ScottKIf it says you can't distribute for commerical purposes, can one infer permission to do it for non-commercial?03:14
elmoScottK: no03:15
ScottKelmo: Thanks.03:15
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StevenKCould someone wave the magic stick at zziplib's sparc build and raise it's priority? I'd like to see if it builds so it can rescued from NEW.03:32
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MithrandirScottK: I'll take a look03:44
ScottKMithrandir: elmo said he thought not, but a second opinion would be useful.  Thanks.03:45
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ogracjwatson, i assume archive-copier doesnt chroot into a sub-chroot in /target .... seems it doesnt work for me as soon as ltsp-build-client starts to run stuff inide the chroot03:48
cjwatsonogra: that's irrelevant to debconf03:49
cjwatsonprobably a red herring03:50
cjwatsonperhaps you lost stdout somewhere else03:50
ograwell... somehow the chrooted commands end up on the debconf screen again03:50
cjwatsondebconf couldn't care less whether you've chrooted03:50
ograobviously ...03:50
cjwatsonwe do it all the time03:50
cjwatsonall you need to do is send commands down the right fd03:50
lamontseb128: gnome-power-manager still hates some architectures:03:51
lamontgpm-profile.c:342: warning: cast increases required alignment of targgpm-profile.c:342: warning: cast increases required alignment of target typeet type03:51
lamontgpm-profile.c:342: warning: cast increases required alignment of target type03:51
lamontstupid mouse03:51
cjwatsonfrom the code you showed me earlier, it would in fact be unable to tell whether ltsp-build-client is chrooting itself or not03:51
ogracjwatson, right, that means ltsp-build-client needs internal redirects ...03:51
cjwatsonsurely absence of internal redirects03:52
cjwatsonif you don't redirect, fds get left alone03:52
cjwatsonbasic Unix03:52
ograright, and the chrooted commands use stdout it seems ...03:52
ograinstead of my redirect03:52
cjwatsonso? it's the same stdout that you redirected to the fifo03:52
cjwatsonthat is not possible03:52
cjwatson"stdout" is just an fd03:53
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cjwatsonwhen you redirect, you *throw away* the old fd03:53
cjwatsonltsp-build-client doesn't have it03:53
ogra/usr/share/debconf/confmodule: line 42: 3: Bad file descriptor03:53
ograthats what i got now03:53
ograafter it extracted templates for apt from the CD#03:53
dokogo thunderbird!03:53
cjwatsondoes ltsp-build-client talk to debconf anywhere?03:54
cjwatsonoh, it's installing packages, isn't it?03:54
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ograandits setting the frontend iirc03:54
cjwatsonso you cannot do this whole scheme03:54
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cjwatsonit will be a race condition03:54
cjwatsonyou can't run ltsp-build-client in the background and simultaneously talk to debconf from somewhere else03:55
cjwatsonltsp-build-client needs to handle the debconf interaction itself, and it probably needs to use in-target to chroot03:55
cjwatsonwhich will deal with the debconf passthrough gubbins you need03:55
ograno, i dont have in-target in normal installs, wont work03:55
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cjwatsoncheck whether it's there then03:55
ographew ... thats a lot of plugins to change then03:56
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cjwatsonthat's probably not the right approach03:56
cjwatsonpick apart in-target and do its chroot setup stuff at the top level if you're being called in a context with a debconf frontend already running03:56
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mjg59http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download - the language on the second option "64 bit AMD and Intel computers" seems potentially confusing03:57
cjwatsonand, on the same condition, have ltsp-build-client source the confmodule and do the progress output itself03:57
mjg59Someone just told me they interpreted it as (64 bit AMD) and Intel computers03:57
cjwatsonmjg59: I think there's an ubuntu-website project for bug reports on that03:57
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Riddellogra: I had to sync the usplash-theme-ubuntu.c in kubuntu usplash with ubuntu to fix verify CD, edubuntu may need the same04:16
ograRiddell, thanks fo rteh hint04:17
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jwendellseb128, around?04:38
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iwjThis is quite tedious.  My shiny disk-full logging libc doesn't seem to be very happy.04:46
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bddebianIs the archive closed off for NEW already or not?04:48
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bddebianScottK: Cool, help me fix up sdlmame then ;-P04:50
ScottKSorry, trying to do $WORK right now.04:50
bddebianpfft, work, schmurk :-)04:50
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alex-weejdoko: ping05:22
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seb128jwendell: yes05:40
jwendellseb128, did you see my comment on bug 34805?05:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 34805 in vino "ALT GR key don't work." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3480505:41
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seb128jwendell: now I did, do you want to get the Ubuntu package patched with it?05:42
jwendellseb128, no, i want to commit it in upstream in order to get it ready for 2.19.9205:42
jwendellseb128, but i'd like to see some tests before commit05:43
mjg59seb128: mixer_applet2 still seems to be causing wakeups05:43
seb128mjg59: yes, we got a bug about that, I need to check if the current gstreamer tarball already has the required API or if that's CVS only05:43
seb128jwendell: gutsy is a good way to get testing ;)05:44
mjg59seb128: It's in the released version, AFAICT05:44
seb128mjg59: let me have a look05:45
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ArtimusIs anyone able to get in touch with the people that run the Ubuntu Mailing Lists?  It's not honoring my unsubscribe requests, it's been 3 days and I still haven't gotten the confirmation email.  My inbox is being flooded, I'd like to unsubscribe, but mailman won't honor my choice.05:52
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cjwatsonArtimus: #canonical-sysadmin05:54
jwendellseb128, the problem is that the patch is insane, and i don't know if i or mark is able to fix some side effect05:57
jwendellseb128, so, if i detect something is wrong, i won't apply it05:57
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dholbachfabbione: who do you think I should assign bug 61151 to?06:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 61151 in system-config-cluster ""separated" spelt incorrectly" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6115106:12
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fabbionedholbach: is fix released?06:13
dholbachfabbione: oh sorry - it's all good then06:13
fabbionedholbach: eehheh06:14
dholbachcalc: is bug 133793 ok?06:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133793 in openoffice.org-voikko "Please sync openoffice.org-voikko from Debian" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13379306:16
dholbachlamont: how does bug 33586 look to you?06:17
ubotuLaunchpad bug 33586 in nmap ".desktop file cleanup for nmapfe" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3358606:17
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lamontdholbach: it looks like a bug in lp that I should review. :-)06:19
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seb128mjg59: ok, the patch is not working06:21
mjg59seb128: Hm. How so?06:21
seb128mjg59: it has "#ifdef HAVE_GST_MIXER_NOTIFIES"06:21
seb128and I'm not sure what should define HAVE_GST_MIXER_NOTIFIES06:21
seb128greping for it in /usr/include doesn't return anything06:22
mjg59seb128: Can you try just making that true?06:22
lamontdholbach: I'll be working on my packages this weekend (postfix, bind, nmap, packit, etc.)  all of which have some bugs to be fixed... This should get in then.06:22
lamontif it's still open next week, please poke me.06:22
dholbachlamont: you ROCK06:23
dholbachlamont: hope you don't mind me assigning that bug to you06:23
lamontplease do06:23
dholbachI just thought you were the best one to get it done ;)06:23
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lamontdholbach: generally speaking, if I'm the debian maintainer, you're welcome to assign it to me.06:24
dholbachthe bug patch lists are quite long, so I'll try to badger people some more06:24
lamontand I'll either assign it back to you, or fix it. :-)06:24
lamontand yes, I'm in a bit of an interesting mood today06:24
seb128mjg59: yes, looks like the gst-plugins-base0.10 version we have is enough, I'll do the change and upload06:24
mjg59seb128: Thanks!06:24
seb128no problem ;)06:25
dholbachiwj: what do you think about bug 63506?06:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 63506 in adduser "Mistake in deluser.conf manpage" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6350606:25
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dholbachthanks lamont06:27
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iwjdholbach: I think we should send the patch to the Debian BTS and we shouldn't bother with it.  It's hardly the kind of thing worth carrying a diff for, surely ?06:33
iwjI mean, shouldn't bother patching our package.06:33
dholbachiwj: ok06:33
iwjDo you agree ?  I'm happy to forward it if you like.06:33
iwj("hash" is the correct term.)06:34
dholbachI think that the patch author could do that06:34
dholbachok good06:34
dholbachcalc: can you add the patch on bug 134112 to your next upload?06:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134112 in openoffice.org "added Xb-Npp-xxx tags accordingly to "firefox distro add-on suport" spec" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13411206:35
dholbachit looks quite straight forward06:35
dholbachwe need more people going through the sponsoring queue and assigning reviews to people06:36
dholbachand I need to fix http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring/ - I'll do that next week, when I'm home again06:36
seb128ah, you changed the team to send mails on a list06:38
seb128that explain why I didn't get sponsoring mails for some time06:38
dholbachyeah, we talked about that a week or two ago06:38
dholbachthat was decided in the meeting06:38
seb128right, I didn't notice it would stop it to send me mails06:38
dholbachI didn't think it'd do that06:39
seb128well, when a team has no list all the members are mailed06:39
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TomaszDhello, I'm the editor of a special edition Linux+ magazine about the upcoming Ubuntu 7.10. I'm currently writing articles about it and I need to get one answer. Will downloading language packages during installation work for the final version? Because it does not work at the moment06:39
seb128TomaszD: that's likely a bug we will fix yes06:40
TomaszDseb128, ok, thanks.06:40
dholbachcalc: also please check out the patch on bug 5462, if you have the time?06:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 5462 in mc "Dutch translation: wrong shortcut" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/546206:40
seb128TomaszD: I don't work on ubiquity though, is that known in launchpad?06:40
seb128TomaszD: maybe evand or cjwatson know about it06:40
TomaszDseb128, I'm not sure, but it's a bug that kind of stands out06:41
TomaszDso they probably know about it06:41
TomaszDI think I even saw it mentioned somewhere, but that's as vague a statement as they get06:41
cjwatsonTomaszD: I hadn't noticed that bug, but I'd like to fix it; could you file it with details (attach /var/log/syslog to the bug)?06:43
TomaszDcjwatson, no problem, does the syslog stay after installation on the drive where I installed ubuntu?06:43
evandI believe it's bug 131294 , which is assigned to me, but I haven't had a chance to review yet.06:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131294 in ubiquity "does not install language packs for the target language" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13129406:43
TomaszDahh, I knew I saw it somewhere!06:44
cjwatsonTomaszD: /var/log/installer/syslog after installation06:44
TomaszDcjwatson, I'll attach that to this bug report soon06:45
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TomaszDcjwatson, attached06:58
TomaszDoops, mixed up your names, requested by cjwatson not seb12806:58
TomaszDI have to go now, bye06:58
seb128TomaszD: that's ok, thanks06:58
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | UVF in place | Tribe 5 out
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Riddell at Thu Aug 23 23:56:29 2007
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seb128mjg59: the new patch is still buggy, the volume icon is not updated correctly07:05
mjg59seb128: Hm.07:05
mjg59seb128: I'll look into it.07:05
mjg59seb128: If you could put your package somewhere, that would help07:06
seb128mjg59: I'll upload the package with the buggy patch for now07:06
mjg59Ok, cool07:06
seb128if you have a fix feel free to apply and upload ;)07:06
mjg59Will do07:06
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snikkerwhy if a "filename.templates" in (in the po folder) start with a comment (#) or a blank line, the templates file in the packaged version (with debuild) start with 2 blank lines?07:12
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gustavoldhi, where the glib's function g_log() sends the data to? stdout? Is there a way to modify it, for example sending it to syslog ?07:26
snikkerwhy if a "filename.templates" in (in the po folder) start with a comment (#) or a blank line, the templates file in the packaged version (with debuild) start with 2 blank lines? This happen in dapper07:27
ion_Does it echo in here, or is it just me?07:28
seb128gustavold: that's not really the right chan to ask coding questions07:29
gustavoldseb128: where should I?07:29
seb128gustavold: by default it sends the log to stdout or stderr, depending of the level07:29
seb128you can g_log_set_handler () to change the behaviour07:29
seb128gustavold: not sure, #gnome on gimpnet maybe07:30
gustavoldseb128: ok, thank you07:31
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ion_I was typing :screen mutt, but in the middle of that, the screen window closed and the rest of the line went to the program in the remaining window, namely irssi. :-)07:33
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mathiazogra: do you remember why pitti doesn't want ot use dbconfig-common for moodle ?07:37
mathiazogra: and also why not use wwwconfig-common ?07:38
ografirst of all he didnt want it ust for moodle in main07:38
ograsecond he didnt want to *just replace* a security broken system with one thats only slightly better (in his opinion)07:38
mathiazogra: you're talking about dbcommon-config or wwwconfig-common ?07:39
ograthe clear advice he made was to replace wwwconfig-common with plain scripts for mysql and postgres creation07:39
ogramathiaz, both07:39
mathiazogra: ok. Thanks for the clarification.07:40
ograwwwconfig-common was refised by the security team07:40
ogradbconfig-common would only replace it ... have a slightly better security but wouldnt really gain anything07:40
ograbut we'd still have that extra dep07:40
mathiazogra: ok. But it seems that there is a need for a common way to handle database setup.07:41
ogramathiaz, i personally really dont care if it has either, i just want it in main07:41
mathiazogra: I see your point. I'll discuss that with pitti when he's back.07:41
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ograand i dont want pitti to freak out if he comes back and throw it out again :)07:42
ograso the directive from my side was, replace the helper scripts with plain postinst stuff ones07:42
ograseems moquist made some good progress n the mysql fron here ...07:43
mathiazogra: that makes sense then.07:43
mathiazogra: do you wanna get it into main for gutsy ?07:43
ograbut we have tons of postgres users out there ... so that needs to be supported as well07:43
ogramathiaz, i wanted it in main for breezy :P ... indeed i do :)07:43
mathiazogra: I see... Why not drop mysql then ?07:44
mathiazogra: and just support postgresql07:44
ograpostgres you mean07:44
ogramoquist doesnt have any postgres support in yet07:44
ograand there are likely as many postgres as mysql users07:44
mathiazogra: well. I've seen some code about posgres.07:45
mathiazogra: ok. So you wanna support both explicitly.07:45
moquistogra: I uploaded a version with postgres support last night.07:46
ograuntil now i always said i'll rather leave it in universe than having it crippled ... but we have some projects where i'll need it in the future07:46
moquistogra: I uploaded a version with *tested* postgres support last night.07:46
=== ogra hugs moquist
=== moquist hopes his package changes don't suck
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moyogocjwatson: did you get a chance to look at updating xkeyboard-config?07:47
ogramoquist, depends if you can please iwj with them :)07:47
moquistogra: See your inbox when you get a chance. I've got questions in there that somebody needs to answer, sometime. There are three questions, and I think that only the first one absolutely *must* be answered before this package can get into main.07:48
ograi'll have a look07:48
=== moquist nods
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ogramoquist, apache2 as a conf.d dir afaik07:53
ograas well as sites-available and mods-available ...07:54
ogramoquist, so we should be able to just drop moddle configs in there and use the native apache tools to enable them07:54
ogramoquist, i dont really care about old apache ... and ssl in the 2 version shouldt behave differently to the non ssl variant, its just some config change07:55
moquistogra: I hadn't checked until now, but the package is already using apache2/conf.d correctly. I believe the preinst script is just trying to clean up from older versions of the package (of apache?) that didn't use a conf.d directory [correctly] .07:57
ogramoquist, for point 2 just dont ask for these values if you dont need them :)07:57
ograah, k07:57
ograi think we can ignore apache1 ...07:57
moquistogra: Right, which is what I figured, except that if they want postgres running somewhere other than localhost then we need to know so we can bail. Or maybe we just don't ask, and the package assumes localhost for postgres. ?07:57
ograhave a question for it ("you run postgres, by default we do that locally, do you want a different setup")07:58
ograpreseed that and make sure it doesnt get asked on CD installs07:59
ogra(since we'll have a defined setup there anyway)07:59
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ogramoquist, for point 3 we have dependencies ;)08:01
moquistThe question should also inform them that they'll have to set up the DB manually if they don't take the default. It's always annoying when software says "Do you want the default?" and you say "no" and then it says "Fine then, I'm going to stop helping you."08:01
moquistogra: Right; I wasn't sure if we could/should change them.08:01
ograright, something in that direction08:01
ograsure, lets change them as we need08:01
ograyou should in any case have a: postgresql-client|mysql-client in the deps ...08:02
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ograthe servers in a similar way in Recommends08:02
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=== moquist nods
ograif we need more we'll do that through edubuntu-server08:03
ogra(thats what it's for :) )08:03
ogradid upstream ever answer your mailping ?08:04
moquistHmm. These deps are already a bit messed up; we're always getting postgresql-client and libdbd-mysql-perl. That doesn't seem right.08:04
ogra(upstream == debian here)08:04
moquistogra: No, but I only pinged once.08:04
moquistAnd I didn't really have anything done at the time.08:04
ograwell, if we're done lets offer him code :)08:04
mayecowhen we have a kde4 project in launchpad?08:05
ograready made code is more tempting :)08:05
moquist*when* we're done. we definitely aren't yet.08:05
iwjogra: I was redoing the cryptsetup MIR and I saw a statement presumably from you saying `note that there are some motu tools that even generate MIRs from the template page'.  Can you point me at those please ?08:05
iwjogra: Because I don't think that's a very good idea.  The point of a report is to summarise the results of investigation and analysis, not just to repeat some formula.08:05
ograiwj, LaserJock wrote some stuff but dropped them again when the format changed08:05
iwjOh, good.08:06
iwjI'm not trying to make life difficult, obviously.08:06
iwjIn fact, that's almost precisely it.  The point of the report isn't just a hoop to jump through, it's to document the results of the investigation so that we can make a sensible decision, and so on.08:07
ograright :)08:07
iwjIf the formatting of the report is harder than the figuring out what to write in it, then we're doing something wrong.08:08
ograwe should even have deeper discussions about the apps we include imho ... but thats a matter of time to invest we still lack manpower for imho08:08
iwjI think we'll have to realise that we're constantly going to lack manpower.08:08
ograwell, but compare the clean small main of warty with what we have today :)08:09
iwjI don't think it's a huge problem to have much stuff in main.  Having it installed by default is a different matter.08:10
ograwell, but a constantly growing main has indeed some relation to constant lack of manpower08:11
iwjBut that's just the world of software, really.08:11
Riddellmayeco: what would you need one for?08:12
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iwjsiretart: Could you please try the cryptsetup .debs from http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/cryptsetup/ ?  I think it shouldn't break anything for you but I haven't tested it at all so beware.  I hope you don't mind me using you as alpha-testers :-).08:13
iwjsladen: ^08:13
mayecoRiddell: hi you are the kde mantainer, dont you thing will be more easy to find kde4 bugs?08:13
iwjIf and when I get a `yes' from you I'll upload and I think that will allow us to promote the package.08:14
mayecoRiddell: dont you think?08:14
Riddellmayeco: I don't think it's very useful to report upstream kde 4 bugs to launchpad, you can report packaging bugs of course08:17
mayecoRiddell: ahhh... so bug should go to kde.org?08:18
Riddellmayeco: bugs.kde.org if you think it'll be helpful to them (but given the state of kde 4, there's plenty needing fixed without bugs being reported)08:19
mayecoRiddell: yeah... do you build kde4 is very buggy?08:20
mayecoRiddell: but is really kool08:20
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LaserJockRiddell: do you know who's archive day it is today?08:38
RiddellLaserJock: nobody's08:39
Riddellnor tomorrow either since pitti is away08:39
LaserJockRiddell: well, NewPakackageFreezeUniverse just happened08:39
LaserJockand there was some confusion as to the actual time it went into effect08:40
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LaserJockshould an email to ubuntu-devel suffice to let ubuntu-archive know when we declared it frozen?08:40
RiddellLaserJock: ubuntu-devel-announce I'd say08:41
RiddellLaserJock: but I don't see any point in setting a to-the-minute deadline08:41
Riddelljust let people have until the end of their day08:41
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LaserJockwell, the release schedule says that all deadlines are 00:00 UTC08:42
MithrandirScottK: no, it's not ok.  It doesn't give redistribution rights.08:42
ScottKMithrandir: Thanks.08:43
=== asisak thinks lot of confusion could be saved if we specified 24:00 the day before as deadline. You could not misinterpret it in the "dangerous" way. Worst case you would still have one day left.
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MithrandirI think specifying the freeze down to the minute is silly.08:52
LaserJockwell, I know08:52
LaserJockbut with Feisty we had some problems08:52
LaserJockand packages that were supposed to get in didn't etc.08:52
LaserJockso we need to be clear with ubuntu-archive what packages they need to review08:52
LaserJockand if we don't set a hard deadline we tend to get people pushing it and pushing it08:52
LaserJockfor the New Packages Freeze anyway08:52
Mithrandirfrom -archive's point of view, anything _not in_ by a freeze doesn't matter, and needs an exception.08:52
Mithrandirwhether it's uploaded half a year or a day in advance doesn't matter.08:52
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LaserJockin the past we've considered that anything uploaded to NEW by freeze should be reviewed08:52
Mithrandirthen there is a disconnect there.08:52
LaserJockyes, which causes problems like every release08:52
=== ScottK can probably find a co-consipirator in motu-uvf for a blanket exception if you want one...
LaserJockit's a big deal for contributors when the *finally* get their package through REVU08:53
LaserJockand then it sits in NEW and doesn't make it into the release08:53
sistpotyhm... imo the gist of new freeze is to get devs focussed on bug fixing, right? so processing everything in the new queue until package freeze seems like a good idea to me08:53
bddebianMithrandir: Are you saying from the archive admins point of view anything not already accepted into the archive by the freeze is out?08:54
Mithrandirbddebian: that's always been my understanding as a member of both the release and the archive team, yes.08:55
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=== ScottK wonders if can be writtien as one big freeze exception or we need one per package ...
LaserJockthat hasn't been the MOTU understanding for the last 2 releases anyway08:56
=== _MMA_ can attest to a exception pretty much being worthless.
bddebianYikes that would have been good to know08:57
MithrandirScottK: mailing -archive with a list should be fine.08:58
LaserJockwell, I think the key is that whatever MOTU decides to do that the archive team needs to be informed08:58
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ScottKMithrandir: OK.  I'll find a co-conspirator in motu-uvf and do that.08:58
ion_So, seems like qtpfsgui (in the depomaniak repository) isnt going to get included. :-(08:58
ScottKsoren: Are you awake/online?08:58
Mithrandir_MMA_: without an exception, you will not have your thing accepted, with it, you might have it accepted, but you don't have any guarantees.08:58
asisakion_: we have uploaded it well before the freeze08:58
bddebianLaserJock: Doesn't that need to work the other way?  We can't "inform" the admins of anything, they have the power, no?08:59
_MMA_Mithrandir: Because of the work involved, especially for new contributors, it should.08:59
LaserJockbddebian: well, that's the thing08:59
ion_asisak: Very recently? Thats great to hear.08:59
asisakion_: 2007-08-28 13:20 CEST09:00
LaserJockthe problem is that there is a disconnect (sometimes a big one) between what gets uploaded and what actually makes it in09:00
LaserJockit's very harmful for contributors if they get something all the way through REVU09:00
LaserJockit's good packaging and it's all set09:00
_MMA_It's very deterring just to go through the packaging work. Then to have to go through the exception process and it _still_ not get in. That wont keep people contributing.09:00
LaserJockand it doesn't make it in because ubuntu-archive couldn't get to it in time09:01
Mithrandir_MMA_: I don't have 24 hours a day extra to pull out of my magic hat.  Do you?09:01
asisakion_: it sits in the NEW queue09:01
LaserJockMithrandir: you don't need an extra day09:01
_MMA_Mithrandir: Sure, but if you're the only one shouldering this, things are very wrong.09:01
Mithrandirreally, it's not like -archive is conspiring to not have packages in the archive, it's just that we don't have the time to do so.09:01
asisakMithrandir: I was sure packages uploaded in time will be processed.09:02
Mithrandir_MMA_: I'm not, but all of the archive team has other things to do too.09:02
LaserJockbut that's the deal though Mithrandir09:02
LaserJockif it goes by upload time then you don't have to worry about it so much09:02
_MMA_Thats where I think we're failing. People are taking on too much.09:02
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ion_asisak: Ok, thanks.09:03
Mithrandirasisak: I don't know where you got that impression from, since it was certainly nothing like what I was trying to communicate when I was release manager.09:03
LaserJockwe just need to know what will get processed, not *when* it will get processed09:03
LaserJockMithrandir: that has been the MOTU understanding since dapper09:03
MithrandirLaserJock: that has not been discussed with those who actually process packages, nor with the release team.09:04
=== asisak does not want to force anyone anything. We should define our processes in a way where developers / MOTUs can see what a deadline exactly means.
MithrandirLaserJock: hence, send a list from a member of motu-uvf granting an exception for the packages that should go in.09:04
Mithrandirthere's still no magic in them being accepted, but they might be processed then.09:04
Mithrandir_MMA_: if you think that I should resign from the release and archive teams, I could do that, sure.  I don't think that'd make more packages get through.09:04
_MMA_LaserJock: But shouldn't "what" be determined by a date? Since getting involved I was under the impression that what the freeze dates were for. (looks like you were as well)09:04
LaserJockMithrandir: which packages need exceptions then?09:05
_MMA_Mithrandir: You're taking this personally. There's no need.09:05
Mithrandir_MMA_: no, I'm explaining to you what the consequences of your suggestions would be.09:05
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bddebianI still think it would be ideal if we could have a Universe archive admin but I don't know if that is feasible given the resources09:06
MithrandirLaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/ is the current NEW queue.09:06
_MMA_I made no specific suggestions. My only one would to be that we take on less and have specific jobs that we can complete as expected.09:07
Mithrandirbddebian: we don't have the infrastructure to be granting per-component archive admin privileges.09:07
bddebianMithrandir: I know.  As I said, it would be nice.09:08
Mithrandiryeah.  Like ponies.09:08
LaserJockMithrandir: so you're saying everything that is currently in the NEW queue needs an exception?09:08
MithrandirLaserJock: anything source, I'd say.09:09
MithrandirI don't think we're going to have a freeze for binaries.09:10
LaserJockok, but that's clearly unacceptable09:10
LaserJockwe gotta figure something out here09:10
_MMA_lol. Great.09:10
LaserJockthere is a package from the 7th in there09:10
sistpotyMithrandir: imo using exceptions to get a fixed date for new packages freeze is a workaround of the policy. Hence we should fix the policy instead.09:11
Mithrandirif you want to grant a blanket exception, find out what's from before the freeze and mail that list to -archive.09:11
Mithrandirit really doesn't seem that hard to me.09:11
sistpotyif it's only about getting that list, let's make that policy that motu-uvf could take care of, what do you think?09:12
sistpotyMithrandir: should I send a mail to -devel for further discussion on the topic?09:13
Mithrandirsistpoty: sure, feel free.09:14
MithrandirI'm not going to be able to respond before Monday, but others might.09:14
sistpotyMithrandir: ok, will do.09:14
sistpotysure, I've got quite a mail backlog here as well ;)=09:15
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_MMA_Mithrandir: So say the list sent to -archive contains everything in NEW? Or even half? What then? The work involved there can be the same as just processing it now.09:19
mjg59seb128: Ok, I see the breakage you're referring to09:20
Mithrandir_MMA_: "just processing" NEW in the current state is probably a full day's work.09:20
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LaserJockwell, there's not a huge rush in getting it processed09:22
LaserJockpeople just want stuff they uploaded before the Freeze to make it to Gutsy09:22
bddebianPeople in Hell want ice water ;-P09:23
_MMA_Thing is, if its not processed in a timely manner they can miss the date to even file an exception.09:23
Mithrandirand people in Ubuntu want ponies.09:23
LaserJockit's not that big of a deal09:24
LaserJockjust process what's in the queue up until Freeze09:24
LaserJockif that takes a week, fine09:24
_MMA_Well it was for us. ;) We had to resort to using our own repo because of it.09:24
LaserJock2 weeks, I'm ok with that09:24
LaserJock_MMA_: no, that wasn't the problem09:25
_MMA_Even after freeze exceptions our packages weren't processed. Thats what happened.09:25
_MMA_We relied on "the system" instead of being the "squeeky wheel" like this time around. (which sux)09:29
seb128_MMA_: "us" being?09:30
_MMA_Ubuntu Studio09:30
seb128you are in such in a hurry than waiting a few days for new packages is not acceptable?09:30
_MMA_No. Im commenting on my personal experiences with the freezes and exception process I went through with Feisty.09:31
seb128the ubuntu-archive team got new member this cycle so it should be better09:32
_MMA_And thats the thing. :) With Feisty we did "wait a few days". Then that turned into weeks. Then we needed exceptions. Ant still the packages didnt make it into the archives.09:32
LaserJockseb128: he's saying that the packages *never* got processed for that release, even after an exception09:33
asisakseb128: I guess the issue is not that you have to wait. It is that you submit new packages before the appropriate freeze.09:33
asisakseb128: and they are not processed, though.09:33
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LaserJockyes, we aren't complaining about how long it takes to get them processed09:34
_MMA_seb128: Oh sure. It has been better totally. Thanx to Riddlel and us not relying on "the process" we go all our packages in this time. I just worry about new people coming in now and what they will take from this if they hit what I did the 1st time around. ;)09:34
LaserJockwe just need know that they *are* going to get processed at some point before release09:34
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sistpotyif you wait a few more minutes, you can proofread my mail to get this sorted out ;)09:36
seb128LaserJock: that's weird09:36
seb128asisak: well, don't summit it 1 hour before the freeze and except having an archive admin around to jump on it09:36
mjg59seb128: Ah, got it09:36
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mjg59seb128: cb_volume needs to force a refresh09:36
seb128mjg59: ah, cool09:36
seb128mjg59:   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=370937 if you want to comment on the upstream bug09:37
ubotuGnome bug 370937 in mixer "Exessive CPU Utilisation" [Minor,New] 09:37
mjg59Previously it didn't need to, since that would arrive after the scheduled update09:37
LaserJockseb128: we've got packages going back to the 7th in NEW!09:37
seb128LaserJock: it's not even 1 month and it's middle of summer with people on holiday09:37
seb128LaserJock: I don't think it's really an issue09:38
asisakseb128: sure. I think it still would be more reasonable to have a deadline that means: I can upload packages, and they will (eventually) get processed.09:38
seb128asisak: that's the case now, no?09:38
seb128we usually try to clean the queue before a freeze09:39
asisakseb128: no. :)09:39
_MMA_seb128: from the chat here obviously not.09:39
seb128asisak: example of package which had issues this cycle?09:39
asisakAs far as I understand the words of Mithrandir mean exactly the opposite. Packages in the NEW queue at the moment of the freeze need an exception.09:40
LaserJockseb128: look at NEW! Mithrandir says that none of the source will get processed with an exception09:40
asisakseb128: not a concrete package. Only in theory...09:40
mjg59seb128: I'll comment upstream and upload09:41
=== asisak has no problems at all. He wants to understand what a freeze exactly means.
seb128mjg59: thanks09:41
bddebianDamn are we still arguing this? :-)09:41
sistpotyok, anyone want to proofread http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35700/ ? (and any good ideas welcome, though of course you could also follow up then *g*)09:41
_MMA_bddebian: Who's arguing?09:41
seb128asisak: if you want my opinion people complain too much ;)09:41
seb128that could use clarification though09:41
=== asisak shuts up and cries
seb128I don't think there is a clear policy09:41
sistpotyseb128: yes, and that's imo the source of problems ;)09:42
seb128I did NEW processing until late yesterday and I don't think we have such of an issue09:42
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LaserJockseb128: there are packages weeks old in NEW09:42
_MMA_seb128: How so? I'm sure Laserjock and people in -motu think it pretty clear.09:42
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seb128LaserJock: against, it's summer and people tend to take holidays, you can't blame them for that09:43
seb128it creates some delay09:43
ScottKsistpoty: Dunno if you want to deal with it in this mail or not, but I think there are two issues: 1.  What to do for gutsy since there clearly is a misunderstanding.  2.  What to do for Hardy Herron and follow.09:43
LaserJockseb128: what the heck are you talking about?09:43
seb128LaserJock: NEW processing is made by people, not robots09:43
LaserJockI'm not complaining about them not getting reviewed in a timely fashion09:43
seb128if it takes some time it's because some people are not there and other are busy09:43
seb128so stop saying that items are weeks old there09:44
LaserJockI *said* several times, the issue is what happens at the freeze09:44
seb128that's not really an useful information09:44
LaserJockthey are that old!!09:44
_MMA_seb128: There is.09:44
seb128yes, and I'm telling you why09:44
LaserJockI uploaded a package on the 22nd09:44
seb128because people are on holidays for some weeks09:44
LaserJockI want assurance that it will get proccessed09:44
_MMA_But the "why" shouldnt matter.09:44
LaserJockI don't care *when*09:44
LaserJockI just want it in Gutsy09:44
DavieyThere should be more people doing it then.. there is the talent09:44
seb128LaserJock: ok, so the fact they are weeks old doesn't matter there09:44
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LaserJockseb128: no09:45
Davieyholiday's etc are not an excuse imo09:45
seb128what we need to define is if the upload or the processing counts09:45
asisakseb128: exactly.09:45
=== asisak hugs seb128
LaserJockbut Mithrandir was saying that they won't get processed without an exception09:45
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_MMA_If the people involved in processing, cant process, why are they doing it? Its such a crutial part.09:45
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seb128LaserJock: we need a policy, we don't have one for that at the moment afaik09:45
Davieyompaul is here to sort it out.. don't worry :)09:45
seb128_MMA_: everybody deserves some holidays, you are not fair there09:46
LaserJockseb128: MOTU have had one, but it seems ubuntu-archive didn't know/understnad09:46
ThorstenSickHi I am new to ubuntu development, but _maybe: I got a good idea: is it possible to priorize packages of new software ? So new contributors will not be disappointed. Software where older versions have already been checked will have to wait in the queue...09:46
seb128LaserJock: maybe MOTU didn't communicate it clearly out of their land? ;)09:46
Davieyseb128: true!  not saying that..  but if holidays are getting in the way - there *needs* to be more people.. Ubuntu has the talent09:46
mjg59ThorstenSick: Packages that are already in the archive do not need reviewing09:46
_MMA_seb128: Sure. I never said that. If someone goes, someone else takes over.09:46
seb128_MMA_: easy to say, not easy to find people trusted, not too busy, etc09:47
seb128_MMA_: and I don't think the current delay is that bad09:47
=== ScottK quietly suggests people stop arguing on IRC and we take this to the mailing list.
sistpotyScottK: ok, thanks for the suggestion, will put it in09:47
seb128we just need to say we allow packages uploaded before the freeze09:47
LaserJockseb128: well, we understood that ubuntu-archive had the same policy09:47
DavieyYes.. /me grabs his lighter fluid to squirt on the ML09:48
_MMA_seb128: Again. The issue isnt the delay. Its things not getting processed period. :)09:48
seb128LaserJock: I'm telling you that I'm not aware of a policy09:48
seb128_MMA_: things always get processed09:48
seb128_MMA_: the queue was empty one month ago09:48
_MMA_Not true at all.09:48
seb128we have nothing waiting for over a month there09:48
seb128and everything get either accepted or rejected09:48
=== ScottK sets a cron job: "ScottK quietly suggests people stop arguing on IRC and we take this to the mailing list."
seb128_MMA_: well, I've access to the queue and do NEW work almost every week09:49
seb128I can tell you it was empty some weeks ago09:49
seb128and that I look quite often at it09:49
joejaxxScottK: +m ftw?09:49
LaserJockseb128: this happens every release though it seems09:49
DavieyGOTO $(now-10mins)09:49
seb128LaserJock: can't speak for previous cycle, I'm one of the new members09:49
seb128the team was too small previous cycle09:50
seb128it should somewhat scale now09:50
_MMA_Sorry man. You havnt seen everything Ive said. :) I had 4 packages sitting in NEW that werent processed for Feisty. Nobody touched them then I was told they would need exceptions. Still were never processed. Same thing will happen now.09:50
Davieyseb128: and it seems that the team is still too small - if holidays are an issue09:50
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seb128Daviey: holidays and distro team workload create some delay09:51
_MMA_Daviey: +1 but like he said, "easy to say, not easy to find people trusted, not too busy, etc"09:51
seb128that's not that of an issue thoufg09:51
seb128we will catch up soon09:51
seb128don't base your opinion on previous cycle though, the team was too small09:51
seb128it should be better now09:52
_MMA_seb128: So _you're_ saying everything currently in NEW _won't_ need an exception?09:52
sistpotyok, mail sent to -devel, I guess it might be a good thing to follow up for the discussion *there*09:52
ograand for the policy as far as universe is concerned the motu council should define whats the deadline (upload or build)09:52
mjg59_MMA_: Seb is not in a position to say that.09:52
Chipzzseb128: sure it matters that they are weeks old. If they are weeks old, that implies that other packages got processed right away09:52
ScottKCRON: "ScottK quietly suggests people stop arguing on IRC and we take this to the mailing list."09:53
_MMA_mjg59: Sure. And who is?09:53
sistpotyogra: MC has until now merely acted to discuss new applications, since the motu team can make decisions during meetings09:53
mjg59_MMA_: The archive team as a whole should determine this policy, probably in conjunction with the release team.09:53
Chipzzseb128: since you claimed you had been doing archive duties yesterday09:54
ograsistpoty, imho defining procedures and freze dates if part of the MC work09:54
mjg59If no policy currently exists, then arguing on IRC will not achieve anything09:54
mjg59Chipzz: Correct, NEW is not processed as a fifo09:54
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Chipzzand that's exactly one of the complaints I think09:54
Davieymjg59: why not?  that would seem logical?09:54
mjg59Some packages are more important than others09:54
mjg59Some packages are easier to process than others09:54
sistpotyogra: sure, but only together with MOTUs not merely from a place above... but imo that's a completely different discussion ;)09:55
mjg59That's not going to change09:55
_MMA_mjg59: I dont feel we're arguing. :) There seems to be a slight miss-communication and lack of man-power in the end.09:55
Chipzzmjg59: sure I understand that. but that doesn't mean that less important/easy packages should be delayed again and again09:55
Chipzzmjg59: you need to do them at one point09:55
mjg59They will be done at some point09:55
ograsistpoty, right, i just wanted to point out that the issue for a universe freeze should be brought to the MC instead of having a wild discussion in -devel ;)09:55
_MMA_mjg59: "miss-communication" as far as policy.09:55
DavieyChipzz: I apprciate that some packages are show-stoppers if not done first09:56
DavieyIe halting an beta release09:56
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ChipzzI didn't say I didn't (appreciate that). I'm saying you cannot keep using that as an excuse09:56
ScottKI really don't think all this finger pointing is helpful.09:57
sorenScottK: Wazzup?09:57
Chipzzmay be a hard limit on how long packages can be in the new queue09:57
mjg59Chipzz: Do you have any evidence that there are packages that have never been processed?09:57
ScottKsoren: I'll PM you...09:57
Chipzzmjg59: I wasn't saying never09:57
sistpotyogra: sure, but archive admins have something to say to this as well ;)09:57
sorenScottK: Uh, is it secret? Cool!09:57
LaserJockmjg59: there are some that get dumped to the next release09:57
Chipzzmjg59: I'm guessing that the complaint is about too long delays09:58
sistpotysheesh, that was denglish again09:58
mjg59Chipzz: No, the complaint is nothing to do with delays09:58
ograsistpoty, about their job of processin probably, but the MC should set the dates and policies for the devs09:58
ograsistpoty, as the TB does for main09:58
mjg59The complaint is whether packages in NEW before UVF should still enter the release09:58
Chipzzbut anyway, something like: sure there may be showstoppers, but if a package is longer in the queue than say 2 weeks (arbitrary number), you have to do that first?09:59
sistpotymjg59: not uvf, but npf... we got a new tla there ;)09:59
mjg59sistpoty: Eh, whichever :)09:59
mjg59But it's a legitimate question, and one that should be discussed with the archive, release and motu bodies09:59
bddebiansistpoty: ach the acronyms.. my eyes....09:59
Chipzzwhich may be an incentive to do the less important packages sooner rather than later09:59
mjg59Not argued on IRC09:59
CharlesEdwardPaxHi, folks, I'm hoping someone can help me get started with the new PPA system on Launchpad.09:59
CharlesEdwardPaxI have a handy little application in Python using libglade called Gladex (http://www.openphysics.org/~gladex/), which is hosted in Launchpad bzr. I hacked together a Makefile that will output a binary package when the user types "make package"; this is located in the bzr repository. This is fine for personal use and distribution to those who don't mind poking around a bit. However, in the hopes of distributing to a wider10:00
CharlesEdwardPaxThe problem I'm having is making a source package that won't make PPA's automated build system puke. All the tutorials and documentation I've found are more complex than I would hope for.10:00
CharlesEdwardPaxDoes anyone have an example or can point me to some good information on how I need to structure the code in the bzr repository and what files must be included in the bzr repository?10:00
KmosCharlesEdwardPax: ask on #launchpad10:00
mjg59CharlesEdwardPax: My understanding was that PPA packages need to conform to the same standards as normal distribution packages10:01
seb128Chipzz: sure I process feature goals before random games10:01
DavieyCharlesEdwardPax: keep in mind that PPA won't currently sign packages10:01
seb128Chipzz: you think we should not apply a priority for goals?10:01
Chipzzseb128: it's a simple question of scheduling10:02
Chipzzeven the kernel has the same principle10:02
seb128Chipzz: it's a simple question of being overworked already10:02
seb128I wanted to 1 hour of NEW handling10:02
seb128I started with things blocking people10:02
Chipzzsure there may be important processes, but to prevent starvation, sometimes less important processes get processed first10:02
CharlesEdwardPaxI'm new to packaging, so I don't really know where to start. I've looked at the Ubuntu Packaing Guide, but I can't quite figure things out.10:03
seb128right, when we are processing "random" things waiting it makes sense to use order10:03
asisakCharlesEdwardPax: #ubuntu-motu is better place for this10:03
DavieyCharlesEdwardPax: join #ubuntu-mot --- they will help more10:03
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seb128when you know what is blocking people or what is a gutsy goal you start with those though10:03
Chipzzseb128: in this concrete example (Ubuntu Studio), packages actually *were* blocking people...10:03
seb128Chipzz: ubuntu studio packages are not old in the queue10:03
asisakIt seems e.g. we are blocking seb128 now...10:04
Chipzzseb128: the example was from the feisty release10:04
Chipzzseb128: I'm sure you can find examples for this release too10:04
seb128Chipzz: I was not in the team by then and as said don't compare with feisty, the team got several new people since and should scale better now10:04
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mjg59Chipzz: You're being needlessly aggressive. Please tone this down a bit.10:05
seb128there is 3 items which are 3 weeks old in the queue10:05
seb128every else is newer than 2 weeks10:05
Chipzzseb128: btw, please understand, I'm not critisizing you personnally btw ;)10:05
seb128in the middle of holidays I don't think it's that of an issue10:05
seb128Chipzz: I understand that, don't worry ;)10:05
CharlesEdwardPaxWhich would be a better place #launchpad or #ubuntu-motu ?10:05
KmosCharlesEdwardPax: both10:05
seb128I don't think that 2 weeks of waiting in august is an issue though10:05
asisakCharlesEdwardPax: for development issues #ubuntu-motu10:05
LaserJockCharlesEdwardPax: if you want to learn how to package #ubuntu-motu10:06
DavieyCharlesEdwardPax: packaging #ubuntu-motu / #launchpad for PPA10:06
Chipzzseb128: but who's to say that throwing more resources (ie people) at it actually solves the fundamental problem?10:06
LaserJockI don't think 2 weeks is bad normally at all10:06
LaserJocka lot of times Debian is 2 weeks-1month10:06
CharlesEdwardPaxI'll check them out. Thanks, everyone.10:06
Davieybut 2 weeks right before UVF?10:06
seb128Chipzz: what do you mean? saying what?10:07
ScottKCRON: "ScottK quietly suggests people stop arguing on IRC and we take this to the mailing list."10:07
sistpotythanks ScottK10:07
LaserJockbut on a 6month release cycle does mean that we need to get stuff processed at some point10:07
seb128Chipzz: it's easy to say "we need extra volunteers", that's now how it works though10:07
Chipzzseb128: saying that as ubuntu grows, the new queue may grow bigger and you'll need to add more people again10:07
asisakChipzz: Sure, as "Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later"10:07
seb128Chipzz: we did add several people this cycle10:08
bhaleI don't expect to see Canonical allow volunteers to process NEW10:08
seb128Chipzz: we added the people who are fit for the job and wanting to do it10:08
seb128Chipzz: if you know of other people we match the description let we know though10:08
=== ScottK writes a reply to sistypoty's email....
Chipzzbhale: I was not suggesting that at all; quite the contrary10:08
Chipzzbhale: pls read what I said10:09
sistpotybhale: why not (if no access to the DC were needed)?10:09
Chipzz22:06 < Chipzz> seb128: but who's to say that throwing more resources (ie people) at it actually solves the fundamental problem? 22:07 < Chipzz> seb128: saying that as ubuntu grows, the new queue may grow bigger and you'll need to add more people again10:09
bhalesistpoty: oh, I am thinking of the bad old days. you are correct.10:09
mjg59Chipzz: If the queue gets impractical for the current team to handle, then the order of processing will make no difference.10:09
sistpotybhale: well, we're not there yet ;)10:09
seb128Chipzz: ?10:09
seb128Chipzz: there is also ton of bugs without a reply10:10
seb128sure we could do with extra contributors10:10
Chipzzwhat I was implying is rather than adding more people you may also need to impose some rules on how what gets processed10:10
seb128the things is that volunteer decide by themself what they want to do10:10
mjg59Chipzz: No, that doesn't help.10:10
pkernWhat's the policy for syncing new Debian revisions (for both main and universe, and taking the current point in time into account)?10:10
seb128that's not up to us to pick somebody and assign him tasks10:10
Kmospkern: man requestsync10:11
Chipzzpkern: make sure there is a valid reason other than "It's new"?10:11
seb128Chipzz: "stop processing things blocking people or which are goals and process random games nobody cares first because they are waiting longer"?10:11
Davieyseb128: That's quite extreme.. that's not what Chipzz means10:11
seb128Daviey: well, either you force a "first uploaded, first processed" rule which means that10:12
seb128or you let people act in function of what think should have the priority10:12
seb128which is what we do now10:12
Chipzzseb128: what I was proposing was something in between actually ;)10:13
seb128Chipzz: how would you define it then?10:13
DavieyBut the bottom line is that the team shouldn't be that stretched that they need to prioritise10:13
seb128Daviey: well, and we should not have bugs without a reply10:13
Davieyv. true10:13
seb128Daviey: the issue is that we have too much to do for the number of people we have10:14
DavieySome go back to 2005!10:14
LaserJockDaviey: we'll always be stretched10:14
seb128and that's not something a rule will make better10:14
Chipzzseb128: a hard limit on how long something should be in the queue10:14
seb128Chipzz: how long would be the limit?10:14
Davieythen it gets dumped if it goes past the hard limit :)10:14
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joejaxxScottK: i do not think people are getting your hints :(10:15
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pkernKmos: Thanks. This means that I need to wait for the next Debian mirror pulse at the earliest.10:15
ScottKNo, they aren't.10:15
Chipzzseb128: say, package n (not-important) is uploaded one week ago, and the (for the sake of argument, here arbitrary chosen) limit is 2 weeks, and you package i (important) which is uploaded now10:16
seb128what hints?10:16
EvanCarrollI hope the fonts get a comlete overhaul before gutsy is released. Merge FB puts my DBI at 110,65, dropping all my default font sizes down to 6, still leaves them entirely too big for my liking.10:16
seb128IRC != mail10:16
pkernKmos: And I don't have my GPG key available on my gutsy QEMU image.10:16
seb128I don't get those mails yet10:16
joejaxxScottK: yeah it is quite unfortunate10:16
Kmospkern: that's bad :)10:16
Chipzzpackage i gets precedence because it's important and there are no non-important packages in the queue older than the limit (2 weeks)10:16
seb128Chipzz: we have freezes going on a week for tribe, I don't think 2 weeks is a reasonable delay10:16
seb128it means people have to process everything in the week after the freeze10:17
pkernKmos: Actually the packages I want to sync are currently transitioning from universe to main but I just added missing translations to the Debian packages. (One-line change.)10:17
Chipzzseb128: like I said, 2 weeks is arbitrarily chosen and meant just to be an example. work with me here10:17
Kmospkern: ask in #ubuntu-motu about that10:17
=== ScottK wonders if Canonical offered expedited NEW processing as a paid service, people would put their money where their mouth is....
pkernKmos: So even if I get a component mismatch currently motu is still my point of contact? Fine.10:17
DavieyScottK: naa10:17
Chipzzscenario b: package n (non-imp) is in the queue for 3 weeks and thus exceeds the limit. even though package i is important, package n gets precedence to prevent starvation10:18
seb128ScottK: I think 3 weeks is already a long delay for things in NEW this cycle10:18
seb128almost every is processed before that10:18
seb128I don't think have to wait 10 days is that of an issue10:18
seb128most of the time we process new uploads in the week10:18
ScottKNEW has been much better this time than in Feisty.10:18
=== ScottK just wished people would quit kvetching and go do something productive.
seb128ScottK: the team got new member, that's going in the good direction10:18
seb128so what is the issue?10:19
sistpotyChipzz: scheduling strategies don't have humans to interact. ;)10:19
Mithrandirwhich has something to do with having three and four archive admins rather than.. just me.10:19
Chipzzsistpoty :)10:19
snikkerwhy if a "filename.templates" in (in the po folder of a source code) start with a block comment (#), the templates file in the packaged version (build with "debuild -uc -us") is replaced with a blank line?10:19
ScottKWe had a disconnect this time around about what exactly New Package Freeze means.  We've had it before.  We'll muddle through this time like we always do.10:19
Chipzzseb128: also note that scenario b could be proactively prevented10:19
ScottKThe imporant thing is to have a clear/coordinated policy for next time around.10:20
seb128I agree that we need to decide how the freezes applies10:20
Kmossnikker: #ubuntu-motu10:20
seb128if that's the upload of processing which counts10:20
seb128and that will be fixed10:20
seb128I'll raise the issue10:20
seb128anything else that should be discussed in your opinion?10:21
snikkerKmos: i've already asked there, but with not answer...10:21
MithrandirChipzz: seriously, trying to enforce that would a) not work and b) make at least me much more liable to quickly find a reason to reject the unimportant package rather than finding all the problematic bits of it.10:21
Kmossnikker: wait for someone to answer you..10:21
snikkerKmos: ok10:21
ChipzzMithrandir: I was afraid of something like that ;)10:22
ChipzzMithrandir: you could come up with variants of it though10:23
Chipzzsay, if there are n packages exceeding the limit you only have to process one10:23
seb128trying to enforce rules over overworked people doesn't work10:23
seb128you will like just lead them to stop volunteering for the work10:23
=== bddebian breaks out the whips!
Chipzzor have the uploader do part of the work (like with sync requests)10:23
MithrandirChipzz: really, that's not how it works.  Do you think we should be blocked on upstream replying to concerns about a package and block everything on that?10:24
ChipzzMithrandir: I indeed don't think we should. but what I'm referring to is working on the new queue, not letting as many packages through as possible ;)10:25
Chipzzseb128: likewise the argument was that if new contributors don't get their packages processed in a reasonable amount of time, they will stop volunteering too10:26
_MMA_"seb128: you will like just lead them to stop volunteering for the work" And whats wrong with that? My feeling is if you cant do the job why take it on? There's nothing wrong with that.10:26
mjg59_MMA_: Then nobody does the job. Which is kind of bad.10:27
seb128Chipzz: I think the delay has been reasonable through this cycle and that there is no reason for such a discussion10:27
Chipzzin which case I guess it boils down to: well, I guess a MOTU volunteer is more dispensable than an archive admin...10:27
seb128as said we had 3 packages in NEW for 3 weeks10:27
seb128everything else is 2 weeks or newer10:27
seb128and that's probably a busy time in the cycle10:27
_MMA_mjg59: Something close to what's being said now anyway right?10:27
seb128_MMA_: nobody else is going to do it ;)10:28
MithrandirChipzz: it's certainly a tradeoff between spending time on making sure we get new blood and doing other work.10:28
mjg59_MMA_: No.10:28
EvanCarrollright. I think that is the default.10:28
seb128_MMA_: you think that no processing NEW is better than having a few weeks of delay, I don't think there is lot to discuss there10:28
Chipzzseb128: but then, I'm just throwing in some idea's on how *possibly* to make it more fair :)10:28
Chipzzseb128: if you think there is no problem, then we (I) should stop this discussion ;)10:29
seb128well, I would like to be proved that is has been an issue this cycle first10:29
_MMA_seb128: You keep focusing on a delay. Thats not the issue _at_all_. Its things making it in before freeze and not being processed.10:29
seb128_MMA_: did you read the chan?10:29
seb128<seb128> if that's the upload of processing which counts10:30
seb128 and that will be fixed10:30
seb128 I'll raise the issue10:30
seb128 anything else that should be discussed in your opinion?10:30
seb128<seb128> I agree that we need to decide how the freezes applies10:30
LaserJock_MMA_: seb128 is on to discussing delays with Chipzz  :-)10:30
seb128_MMA_: I think that things uploaded before the freeze should be accepted and that will be discussed10:30
seb128anything else?10:30
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_MMA_Well thats fine but its been said its not up to you. :( If it actually happens then yeah, that great. ;)10:32
xtknighti've encountered quite a weird problem (firefox failing on 64bit after updates all the time).  any ideas??  Bug 13378610:32
seb128_MMA_: I didn't say I would decide, I wrote that I would raise the issue for discussion10:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133786 in ubuntu "Bus error when running Firefox or Epiphany" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13378610:32
_MMA_seb128: ;)10:32
cjwatsonin the past, ISTR things that were in place before freeze generally getting an exception on that basis10:33
cjwatsonjust throwing my oar in a bit late10:33
cjwatsonas an archive admin I have certainly accepted things on that basis10:33
seb128I was going to do that10:33
cjwatsonwhether it happened for feisty or not, I don't know10:33
seb128but I'll raise the point at the distro team meeting for clarification10:33
bddebianw00t cjwatson is here now, fresh meat!!10:34
Chipzzbddebian: .net? :)10:34
Chipzzfreshmeat.net ;)10:34
Chipzzdon't know it?10:34
bddebianOh, hehe10:34
mjg59seb128: Fixed, uploaded10:35
seb128mjg59: thanks10:35
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EvanCarrollI'm not sure how to file a bug report on the gutsy fonts that will help it seems like a few people have a good idea of the problem10:49
EvanCarrollhas something to do with the DBI scaling mechanism of the new X10:49
EvanCarrollI just can't my fonts down to a reasonable size.10:49
EvanCarrollI'm using mergefb (as are most poeple wth dual monitors) so my resolution is 1024*2 x 76810:50
EvanCarrollit totally rapes my fonts, even if i edit the libgnome default down to 710:50
EvanCarrollmjg59: they are at 6.10:50
EvanCarrollmjg59: can't go any lower.10:50
mjg59EvanCarroll: No. That gives you the DPI setting.10:50
EvanCarrollthats it i bet10:50
mjg59bryce: He's right, though. The default DPI is horrifically horked.10:50
mjg59Even on single monitor setups.10:51
EvanCarrollthanks a ton, I saw suggestions for this feature and didn't see any note of it being implimented10:51
mjg59My user name doesn't actually fit in the gdm box10:51
EvanCarrollI think you guys are shooting yourself in the foot if this "Feature" is in launch... Regression time if you ask me.10:51
EvanCarrollI've got a better one, my gvim holds 29characters.10:51
ion_Gnome shouldnt override the DPI value IMO. Instead, we should make X guess it better. For instance, the displayconfig-gtk monitor database could contain their physical sizes and add a DisplaySize setting to the config.10:52
EvanCarrollI had to go down to vritual-line 7 to edit the libgnome2 file10:52
ion_That is, for monitors that report it incorrectly.10:52
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EvanCarrollanyone know how one resets the fonts to the original-factory settings10:54
EvanCarrollI forget what the normal ubunte sizes are 10/10/11/11/10 top to bottom ?10:55
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deadwillany news on bug #124775 ?10:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 124775 in vmware-player-kernel-2.6.15 "No kernel modules for the 2.6.22 kernel" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12477510:58
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mjg59It's filed against an utterly bizarre package10:59
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EvanCarrollfound it, font size settings are stored in ~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/interface/%gconf.xml11:01
EvanCarrollactually only 3 of the 5 that you can configure are stored there11:01
EvanCarrollgrr!!! gnome and your inconsistancies11:01
EvanCarrollwindow font and fixed fonts not in there11:02
EvanCarrollI'll delete my whole gconf I suppose11:02
tepsipakkiEvanCarroll: just use gconf-editor and set the default from there11:02
EvanCarrolltepsipakki: I don't know what the default is =[11:02
tepsipakkiright click on the setting, then choose the one that reverts to the default11:03
tepsipakkidon't know what it's called in english/your locale :)11:03
EvanCarrollI just know I want the default font sizes on everything again, and I only want to change my DPI because having all of my fonts set to 6 and my dpi correctly set to the 95ish half of what it was detected at, makes all of my font-size 6 look like a font-size 6 now11:03
EvanCarrolli didn't know gconf editor had that option11:04
EvanCarrollwonder where it stores therem /etc/skel maybe11:04
tepsipakkino, /var/lib/gconf11:04
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tepsipakkioh wait, /usr/share/gconf is better11:05
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seb128tepsipakki: what are you trying to do?11:06
tepsipakkiseb128: help :)11:06
tepsipakkiseb128: EvanCarroll wants to reset the font sizes to the default values11:06
EvanCarrollI butchered every font-size in gnome to 6, rather than changing my borked dpi value11:07
EvanCarrollI'm sure this will be a FAQ on launch lol11:07
seb128gconftool-2 --unset /desktop/gnome/interface/document_font_name /desktop/gnome/interface/font_name /desktop/gnome/interface/monospace_font_name11:07
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tepsipakkiyes, that's the cool way to do it :)11:08
EvanCarrollawesome, thats most of them.11:08
EvanCarrollI'll wiki it tonight.11:08
EvanCarrollstill a few more. that I borked as far as individual applications, the move to resolution independence is surely the right step, I'd go with a year of datacollection on monitors though11:09
EvanCarrollcapture the name of the monitor from DPMS and the users size-preference in gnome at least the big 6 to infer you are in the right ballpark11:10
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EvanCarrollseb128: tepsipakki thanks again.11:11
seb128you're welcome11:11
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tepsipakkibummer, he left already11:14
cjwatsonRiddell: do you think you could grab amarok2 out of NEW and frob it to fix debian/copyright? It needs to list the LGPL and the GFDL11:16
LaserJockcjwatson: is the make-web-indices script in ubuntu-cd what's used to create the pages on cdimage.ubuntu.com, etc. ?11:16
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cjwatsonLaserJock: yes11:17
cjwatsonLaserJock: some of them are tweaked a bit by hand though11:17
Riddellcjwatson: ok, I'll do that now11:17
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LaserJockcjwatson: if I want to make some changes to the Edubuntu descriptions can I give you a patch or would you rather handle it yourself?11:19
cjwatsonLaserJock: mail me a patch11:20
cjwatsonRiddell: thanks!11:20
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CaesarIs there a way to see all bugs that effect Feisty?11:24
CaesarOr is launchpad package-oriented?11:24
cjwatsonCaesar: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty but obviously that's only bugs that have been explicitly annotated as affecting feisty11:25
cjwatsonlaunchpad doesn't have version tracking11:25
cjwatson(not my idea, I put it in the original design ;-))11:26
ogra_cjwatson, al my work on the udeb was moot :( i cant get any output from mksquashfs through any pipe at all so i have to find another way... (that was the main reason to touch the udeb)11:30
ajmitchgood morning11:30
Riddellcjwatson: amarok2 -0ubuntu2 uploaded11:30
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noah__Hey! In Ubuty Gutsy, /etc/mysql/my.cf, the last line says !includedir /etc/mysql/conf.d, but settings in here doesn't get applied.. bug?11:47
sorennoah__: Possibly. File a bug with some more information and I'll look at it tomorrow.11:48
mathiaznoah__: what are you trying to set in conf.d ?11:48
noah__mathiaz: default-character-set=utf8 for [mysqld]  and [client]  amongst others11:50
noah__soren: can i email you a remind? i'm too lazy to write a bug report right now.11:50
mathiaznoah__: you'd better file a bug - so that we can track it.11:50
sorennoah__: WEll, the e-mail you send to me would have to contain more information as well.11:51
noah__soren: i'll give you a test case.. can't figure out which email i used for registering on launchpad and i don't feel like reregistering atm11:52
sorennoah__: You remember your username?11:52
sorennoah__: What's your name?11:54
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noah__soren: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/13622512:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 136225 in ubuntu "my.cnf includedir not working as expected" [Undecided,New] 12:01
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pygiasac, we need to talk (preferably once I wake up) ... I didn't hear from you in few days o.O12:18
asacpygi: yeah ... i somehow lost the current/state/idea :)12:19
pygiasac, you know that's not good :p12:20
pygiasac, we can't *really* update libswfdec since it depends on unrelease libming12:20
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asacthats really a shame12:22
asachow could that happen?12:23
asacwhat does debian do?12:23
asac(they have swfdec 0.5.x, right?)12:23
pygiasac, they have debian 0.5.112:27
pygiwe can get that as well12:27
pygibut can't get 0.5.212:27
asacwhats the difference?12:28
asacwhy does 0.5.2 pull in a new lib, pygi ?12:28
asacmaybe its just testcases? which we can exclude from build?12:28
pygiasac, it's due to vivi12:29
pygiand yes, we could exclude it12:29
pygibut: a)we gotta have it ready by *yesterday* b)I'm going to trip tomorrow, early morning (00:10AM)12:29
pygiand I won't be at home for most of the day :-/12:29
pygiso much to do :(12:30
seb128pygi:  what about swfdec?12:30
pygiseb128, we are talking about swfdec now =)12:30
seb128I noticed12:31
pygiwell, trying to get new release in :)12:31
pygiif you don't mind :p12:31

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