[12:06] <cgdae> hello. apologies if this is already known, but i think that there are some broken links on http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrUserGuide
[12:09] <abentley> cgdae: We just switch the extensions from .htm to .html
[12:09] <abentley> Feel free to update that page.
[12:10] <cgdae> ah, ok. i'll have a go.
[12:19] <NfNitLoop> Hmm.  SO I've just been reading up on mercurial.  I see a couple advantages bzr has:  sane shared repositories (instead of hg's hard linking)  and easier command-line interface.
[12:20] <NfNitLoop> what else am I missing?
[12:20] <NfNitLoop> The only real advantage I see to hg so far is that it scales better.
[12:22] <cgdae> i've fixed the broken links on http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrUserGuide.
[12:24] <james_w> cgdae: thanks.
[12:24] <james_w> NfNitLoop: a lot of people like mq.
[12:24] <james_w> NfNitLoop: they also have the hg book.
[12:25] <cgdae> all i need now is some unbiased advice about whether to try mecurial or bazaar as a replacement for cvs... :-)
[12:25] <james_w> cgdae: try either.
[12:25] <james_w> cgdae: what are your requirements?
[12:27] <NfNitLoop> james_w: mq?
[12:28] <cgdae> james_w> we have a developer who has only occasional internet access. we've been packaging up our entire cvs repository for him to download and use locally, then he emails patches to us which we commit. repository is fairly small, 18MB compressed i think.
[12:29] <cgdae> james_w> so no special requirements really. we use openbsd as server. it doesn't have a bazaar port, but it installs trivially by hand.
[12:31] <Peng> NfNitLoop: Hg has file copies.
[12:31] <Peng> s/has/supports/
[12:34] <james_w> NfNitLoop: mercurial queues, quilt for hg basically
[12:35] <james_w> cgdae: your project is not too large, so either system should cope fine.
[12:35] <NfNitLoop> I'm not familiar with quilt.
[12:36] <james_w> I would guess that bzr is easier to install, but that's just a guess, I may be wrong. hg requires C code I believe, for bzr it is optional.
[12:36] <NfNitLoop> hg ended up being easier for me to install, since they provide a package for Debian stable.
[12:37] <Peng> The C code in hg isn't a major issue for installation, unless you're on an odd platform that it doesn't work on.
[12:37] <NfNitLoop> (though IIRC the latest version was released last june)
[12:37] <james_w> cgdae: I would suggest that you install both and just play aroung see which you prefer.
[12:38] <james_w> also chat to the hg folks as well, and see how helpful they seem, you may need some help in the future with something.
[12:38] <james_w> Peng: thanks for the clarification.
[12:39] <james_w> NfNitLoop: quilt is for managing multiple patches, it's kind of version control, but a bit specialised.
[12:39] <james_w> one thing that is odd to me is hg's merging, there's an extra step in there which I find a bit weird.
[12:40] <cgdae> james_w> that's good advice. thanks.
[12:40] <NfNitLoop> james_w: well, it seems to be a different approach.
[12:41] <NfNitLoop> iirc, bzr requires that you commit local changes before merging.
[12:41] <NfNitLoop> hg doesn't.   So it gives you a chance to do so before you actually merge pulled changesets into the working copy.
[12:42] <james_w> ah, that's why, thanks.
[12:42] <NfNitLoop> personally, I think committing your changes separately is a better idea.
[12:42] <NfNitLoop> But there's something to be said for not requiring that workflow.
[12:43] <NfNitLoop> on the other hand, because of the way hg does it, you can have several heads in a single branch.   Which ... seems needlessly complex.
[12:44] <james_w> that will throw a lot of people I guess.
[12:45] <james_w> you can go all the way to git and just do that all the time. It does win you quite a lot, but some people will take a long way to get their heads around it.
[12:45] <NfNitLoop> git allows multiple heads in one branch?
[12:46] <NfNitLoop> (or repo, or whatever they call it?)
[12:47] <james_w> yeah, in a repo, but a repo is all you have in git, so it's like a bzr branch.
[12:47] <james_w> ...sort of.
[12:49] <NfNitLoop> I really like the separation of working copy / branch / repository with bzr.  I haven't seen that with other VCSes.
[12:51] <james_w> The branch/repository distinction confuses some, and the terminology confuses others.
[12:52] <NfNitLoop> It confused me at first.
[12:52] <NfNitLoop> I came from cvs/svn.
[12:52] <james_w> Also, as a repo is not needed people may not create one when they start, and then they lose a lot if they are branching locally. However most tutorials now start with the 'init-repo' step to avoid this.
[12:53] <NfNitLoop> where a branch was very much something *inside* the repository, not able to be separated.
[12:53] <james_w> but that then means you have to get straight in to explaining the differences, before they've even started.
[12:53] <NfNitLoop> Yeah.  Which may not be a good first impression.  "Wow, this is complex."
[12:54] <james_w> yeah, you can't separate them in bzr either, but you get a hidden repo if you don't have an explicit one.
[12:54] <NfNitLoop> I don't know that it's that important, though.   It's always easy to convert to a shared repo later.
[12:54] <james_w> exactly.
[12:54] <james_w> yeah, it is. People have talked about adding a command to do that in one step, but I've not seen any code.
[12:55] <NfNitLoop> Eh.  you don't need another command for that when it's a few simple commands that are easy to remember and not too often used.
[12:57] <james_w> true.
[12:57] <NfNitLoop> er, rather, the simple commands are used often.  the single comprehensive command would be rarely used.  You knew what I meant. :p
[02:04] <sblack> Anybody have any word on .90 windows standalone installer?
[02:05] <sblack> I was going to try out .90 but have trouble building with Visual Studio 2005 installed
[02:51] <ekim|irc> How can I setup bzr to work like subverion (to a point)
[02:51] <ekim|irc> I wanna use bzr to upload my gfiles to a remote server
[02:51] <ekim|irc> how can I do that
[02:56] <jkakar> ekim|irc: You can, yes.
[02:57] <ekim|irc> how ?
[02:57] <jkakar> ekim|irc: See 'bzr help checkout' for more information.
[02:58] <jkakar> ekim|irc: Basically, if you have a branch on a remote system and you want to work in the Subversion style where your local changes have to commit remotely you can 'bzr checkout sftp://my-remote-branch'; commits made in the resulting local branch will need to succeed on the remote branch for the commit to complete.
[02:58] <ekim|irc> someone told me that you can actually use mod_dav_svn to do it
[05:20] <sblack> Does anyone here have any knowledge of a windows binary distro of 0.90?
[05:21] <sblack> I've tried working with the source, but I get build complaints about Visual Studio 2003 (I have 2005) and the instructions
[05:21] <sblack> for "-c mingw32" don't appear to be recognized
[05:40] <Peng> Oooh. Lightweight checkouts need to contact the server for just 'bzr st' or 'bzr diff'. That sucks.
[05:45] <Peng> Hm. bzr co --lightweight grabs .bzr/repository/format four times.
[12:34] <encompass> ok, I have a need!
[12:34] <encompass> I deleted a dirctory and I want to get the latest revision back... how do I do that?
[12:35] <encompass> my project is here... htp://launchpad.net/memaker
[12:35] <encompass> is it simply bzr pull?
[12:36] <luks> deleted as in 'rm DIR' or 'bzr rm DIR && bzr ci'?
[12:36] <fullermd> Deleted as in your deleted your copy of the branch?
[12:36] <encompass> yeah
[12:36] <encompass> I am the only dev right now... and when I commit and push it goes to trunk
[12:36] <encompass> as in rm DIR
[12:37] <encompass> well... rm -rf DIR
[12:37] <encompass> it is my most recent revision that is needed
[12:37] <fullermd> DIR being a dir _in_ your branch?
[12:38] <mwhudson> revert should bring it back
[12:38] <encompass> what is revert?
[12:38] <encompass> bzr revert?
[12:38] <fullermd> Yeah, `bzr revert $DIR`
[12:38] <encompass> let's see
[12:51] <encompass> thinks... works great now... saved the day again!
[12:52] <encompass> :P
[03:13] <CardinalFang> Grr, there's no installer for Fink on OS X?
[07:57] <sabdfl> hey revisionistas, has any of the HPSS code landed since 0.17?
[08:00] <james_w> sabdfl: I believe some smaller things have gone in to make the merge easier later, but the main changes are still out.
[08:00] <sabdfl> okidoki
[08:00] <sabdfl> thanks james_w
[08:00] <james_w> I know Martin was trying to get it in to 0.91, but I don't think it's up for review yet and the freeze doth approach.
[10:58] <mrtuple> would someone mind lending a hand with baz-import ?
[10:59] <james_w> mrtuple: what are you stuck with? I'm not sure I can help, but I don't think Aaron is around at the moment.
[10:59] <mrtuple> oh thanks.
[11:00] <mrtuple> I have a tla archive ...
[11:00] <mrtuple> that 'tla archives' reports as khellman@mcprogramming.com--mcp-2005
[11:00] <mrtuple>     /home/{karchives}/mcp-2005
[11:00] <mrtuple> khellman@mcprogramming.com--vb-2005
[11:00] <mrtuple>     /home/{karchives}/vb-2005
[11:01] <mrtuple> I'd like to convert the whole thing to a bzr repo.
[11:01] <mrtuple> (The first one by the way, mcp-2005)
[11:02] <mrtuple> So I go to the path I want the repo to reside at, and try this:
[11:02] <mrtuple> bzr baz-import mcp-2007 khellman@mcprogramming.com--mcp-2005
[11:02] <mrtuple> Which I *think* is what http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrTools says to do.  Of course, I must be thinking wrong, because it doesn't work.
[11:04] <mrtuple> bzr creates a mcp-2007 repo (at least it has a .bzr file in it), but after that it crashes with a long backtrace.
[11:05] <mrtuple> The traceback claims OSerror 2 (No such file or dir), but I don't see a line clarifying which argument doesn't exist...
[11:06] <mrtuple> I can post copies if it helps.
[11:06] <james_w> yes please.
[11:06] <mrtuple> couple minutes probably...
[11:06] <james_w> fine.
[11:06] <james_w> are you running a recent bzrtools?
[11:27] <mrtuple> http://rafb.net/p/vJ5ud964.html
[11:29] <mrtuple> My bzr version is 0.90, how do I determine my bzrtools version?
[11:31] <mrtuple> (okay, more than a couple of minutes...)
[11:31] <james_w> bzrtools complains if it is out of date, so you should be fine.
[11:32] <james_w> are you on Debian/Ubuntu?
[11:32] <mrtuple> Yes, lenny/sid
[11:32] <james_w> then you're fine.
[11:32] <mrtuple> goody.
[11:32] <james_w> so it looks like it is having trouble exec'ing baz, you do have it installed, it's on your path etc?
[11:33] <mrtuple> type -p bzr reports '/usr/bin/bzr'
[11:33] <james_w> no, baz not bzr
[11:34] <mrtuple> damn spelling :^)
[11:34] <mrtuple> well, I'll be darned.  its not.
[11:34] <mrtuple> I thought bzr replaced baz...
[11:35] <mrtuple> I still need baz for importing?
[11:36] <james_w> yeah, it exec's baz to get the information and then imports it to bzr.
[11:36] <james_w> they are completely different systems really, the naming is just historical.
[11:39] <mrtuple> apt-get'ing baz now...
[11:39] <mrtuple> I interpretted the log line...
[11:39] <mrtuple> bzr: ERROR: pybaz.errors.ExecProblem: baz exited with code 3 (expected exit code 0)
[11:40] <mrtuple> and
[11:40] <mrtuple> ExecProblem: baz exited with code 3 (expected exit code 0)
[11:40] <mrtuple> As 'baz' being a helper app that came along with bzr...  Never thought to consider that it was missing.
[11:44] <mrtuple> OK, the traceback is at least shorter now...
[11:44] <mrtuple> http://rafb.net/p/uJmgzU38.html
[11:45] <mrtuple> Looks like baz is being called with an unexpected option.  Perhaps this is a real defect...
[11:47] <lifeless> what version of baz and pybaz do you have?
[11:52] <mrtuple> I think I just figured this out.
[11:53] <mrtuple> The trace shows a pybaz from *my own* python testing tree being used.  Not the pybaz from debian package systesms.  I had installed this version *several* months ago when I was looking at the conversion process.
[11:53] <mrtuple> I'm removing that one, installing the pybaz debian package, and then the import will probably work.
[11:53] <mrtuple> I'll keep you posted, sorry for the trouble.
[11:55] <james_w> no problem, well spotted.
[11:55] <mrtuple> Oh yes.  It's working now --- complete with progress bar...
[11:55] <mrtuple> whooho!
[11:56] <mrtuple> Finally I'll have a superior VCS!  (all the more branches to hang myself on :^)