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sbalneavEvening all02:52
LaserJockhi sbalneav02:54
sbalneavHey there LaserJock!02:54
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sbalneavGoing out for a walk.  Afk for an hour or so.03:27
sbalneavNew doco package building03:27
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LaserJocksbalneav: package build?04:31
sbalneavDay1, I kept my promise :)04:33
LaserJockI would build the packages each day04:33
LaserJockthey'd just have the same content ;-)04:33
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ubotupastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)06:08
TexasTwisterHardware recognition problem here:  I bought a Dell Inspiron 530n desktop with Ubuntu preinstalled.  Worked fine.  Then I replaced Ubuntu with Eduntu (I'm configuring this box for a private school).  Was unable to install for lack of network connection until I inserted an Intel e100 PCI nic -- integrated e1000 not seen...06:14
TexasTwisterInstall completed, Dell says new kernel should be all that is needed.  Updated to that kernel but I still see only the e100.  Any ideas?06:15
sbalneavWhat does lspci show?06:16
TexasTwister00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Unknown device 10c0 (rev 02)06:16
TexasTwister02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro 100]  (rev 08)06:16
sbalneavWell, the first line's the e100006:20
sbalneavso the kernel doesn't know what it is.06:20
TexasTwisterubuntu and edubuntu use the same kernel, no?06:21
TexasTwisterStrange...Dell implies that the current kernel should resolve the problem: http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/e1000_driver_does_not_recognize_network_controller06:22
sbalneavSo I'm willing to wager that if you re-installed ubuntu at this point, it probably wouldn't work either06:22
TexasTwisterYes, I expect that is true.06:23
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TexasTwisterUnless I installed from the "restore partition".06:23
sbalneavdpkg -l | grep linux-image06:23
TexasTwisterii  linux-image-2.6.20-15-generic              2.6.20-15.27                           Linux kernel image for version 2.6.20 on x8606:24
TexasTwisterii  linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic              2.6.20-16.29                           Linux kernel image for version 2.6.20 on x8606:24
TexasTwisterii  linux-image-generic                                       Generic Linux kernel image06:24
sbalneavWell, looks like you have the one they want.  Just doesn't look like what they SAY it does, it does :)06:25
TexasTwisterAlrighty... to the forums, I guess...06:26
sbalneavhold on, one sec...06:27
sbalneavjust looking something up06:27
sbalneavlspci -n | grep 02:0006:27
sbalneavwhat do you get?06:28
sbalneavTexasTwister: What do you get if you type lspci -n | grep 02:0006:31
TexasTwister02:00.0 0200: 8086:1229 (rev 08)06:32
sbalneavk, I'm looking at the kernel source...06:32
TexasTwisterBut that is the e10006:32
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TexasTwister00:19.0 0200: 8086:10c0 (rev 02)06:33
sbalneav10c0, ok...06:33
TexasTwisterWhat are we looking for?06:33
sbalneavWell, I'm looking in the kernel source...06:34
sbalneavIf you're interested, I'm bombing through /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.20/drivers/net/e100.c06:35
sbalneavIn there, they basically list a bunch of pci-id's that the driver will respond to.06:35
sbalneav8086 is the intel "vendor code"06:35
sbalneav10c0's the device code.06:35
TexasTwisterSuppose that vendor code is a tribute to the old 8086 processor?06:36
sbalneavah, wait.06:36
sbalneavlooks like they've got a custom for the e100006:37
sbalneavsitting at the command prompt?06:37
sbalneavdo a sudo modprobe e100006:37
sbalneavdid it silently return?06:37
TexasTwisteryes... but I've done that before...06:37
sbalneavdoesn't pick up the device?06:38
TexasTwisterNot in the network settings panel anyway.06:38
sbalneavlspci now, see if it looks like it's there...06:38
sbalneavwe're looking for that 00:19 one to change from an unknown device.06:39
TexasTwisternope... still "unknown"06:39
sbalneavok, looking in the driver...06:39
sbalneavone sec.06:39
sbalneav *06:40
sbalneav * Last entry must be all 0s06:40
sbalneav *06:40
sbalneav * Macro expands to...06:40
sbalneav *   {PCI_DEVICE(PCI_VENDOR_ID_INTEL, device_id)}06:40
sbalneav */06:40
sbalneavstatic struct pci_device_id e1000_pci_tbl[]  = {06:40
sbalneav        INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x1000),06:40
sbalneav        INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x1001),06:40
sbalneav        INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10BC),06:40
sbalneav        INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10C4),06:40
sbalneav        INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10C5),06:40
sbalneavyou got a 10C006:41
sbalneavSo, you got a couple of choices...06:42
sbalneav1) file a bug, include the lspci -n line, specifically pointing out that 8086:10c0 isn't in the driver.06:43
sbalneav2) Phone dell, complain :)06:43
TexasTwisterAlrighty then....06:43
sbalneav3) merrily dive off the deep end, try to compile your own kernel :)06:43
sbalneav4) Stick with the e100 for now :)06:44
sbalneavLet me see if it's fixed in the 2.6.22 series in gutsy06:44
TexasTwisterOption 4) call my friends in Dell PG and ask for a fix (I'm a Dell employee...)06:44
sbalneavThere you go!06:44
TexasTwisterThanks for your help!06:45
sbalneavHardware vendors change device ids all the time.06:45
sbalneavSomeone sneezes on the blueprint, or chages one little transistor, and they bump a new number.06:45
sbalneavand if you don't have the EXACT number in the driver, far as the driver knows, it's an unknown device.06:46
sbalneavIf you wanted to, I'll bet you could just add a line to e1000_main.c that said:06:46
sbalneavand it would work like a champ.06:47
sbalneavBut there's the whole "now your running a modded kernel and no one will support you" thing.06:47
sbalneavTalk to your buddies. see what they say.  If not, I'm here every day, come on back and see me, I'll give you a hand if you want.06:48
TexasTwisteralright.  Thanks!06:48
sbalneavNight all07:00
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raynerdHello, few wuestions about edubuntu if anyone can assist, I`m a teacher and been trying to work out linux edubuntu throughout the holiday!08:27
raynerdfirst, I have the edubuntu latest CD, ran it live and it had lots of nice educational functions. When I installed it on my machine, it didnt have these functions automatically, I have to download them/install them via the net. Why is this?08:28
raynerdSecondly, we have 15 laptops in the department enough for 1 between 2 in a class of students. My intention is to use the laptops (with windows installed on them!) and run the live CD, so everyone is running Live edubuntu rather than windows. How can I edit the edubuntu CDs perminantly so that the "install" function is removed off the CD, i.e. students cant accidently install edubuntu08:31
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raynerd_anyone in here?12:18
raynerd_guys, question: I am new to linux and a teacher of Chemistry. I downloaded Ubuntu onto my home PC. My home pc does not have net connection and therefore I could not install educational apps. I therefore downloaded Edubuntu and ran it live....with access to all educational apps available. I then installed Edubuntu and when I ran it off the harddrive, the educational applications were missing again!! So as far as I could see, there12:52
raynerd_was no difference between the ubuntu and edubuntu installs! I have managed to get net connection and installed all the apps but I am still confused by the benefit of having edubuntu installed over ubuntu. Anyone please explain...?12:52
Amaranthraynerd_: if you couldn't see a difference you must not have actually installed edubuntu12:53
Amaranthor you didn't uninstall ubuntu12:53
raynerd_ok, i`ll be honest! I installed on works laptop edubuntu so it was a clean install!12:55
raynerd_hence I have edubuntu on my pc still. I cant see a different12:55
raynerd_sorry Ubuntu on my pc still12:56
Amaranthraynerd_: different theme and different default applications12:57
Amaranthraynerd_: edubuntu remove some of the stuff ubuntu normally installs by default and includes a bunch of education stuff12:57
raynerd_so i definately installed a clean copy of edubuntu but the educational apps were not there...making it no different than ubuntu12:57
raynerd_this is what I am saying12:57
raynerd_ok, please let me explain again. Sorry my fault12:57
raynerd_I installed Ubuntu on my pc laptop12:58
raynerd_i installed Ubuntu on my HOME PC12:58
raynerd_it did not contain any educational apps, I had no net connectivity so could not d/l them. I then chose to install Edubuntu on my work laptop.12:58
raynerd_I ran the CD live first and all educational apps were there! great. When i installed, the educational apps were not there!12:59
raynerd_the install looked almost identical to that of ubuntu. Luckly with the laptop i can connect to the net, so i just installed them. My question is, the edubuntu install was no different than the ubuntu install as far as i could see01:00
Amaranththat sounds wrong01:00
Amaranthyou must have done something weird01:00
raynerd_yes, I thought so! I`m new to linux, but to be fair there are very few choice to go wrong on the linux install! I just followed it through!01:01
Amaranthi've, uh, never actually done an edubuntu install so i'm probably the wrong person to talk to01:01
Amaranthbut if you had edubuntu-desktop install you should have gotten some education apps01:02
Amaranththat's a package that pulls in all the packages that make up the edubuntu desktop01:02
raynerd_yes, I can them on the same CD live run, but didnt get them on the install01:02
raynerd_v strange!01:02
Amaranthwait, edubuntu doesn't have a livecd installer01:03
raynerd_say again?01:03
Amaranthoh, they do as of feisty01:03
raynerd_edubuntu is a live CD ...I ran it before I installed.01:03
Amaranthyou're not going to find anyone to help you here on the weekend01:03
raynerd_Ahh right, why all asleep?01:04
Amaranthi only know about edubuntu as of over a year ago and the rest don't get on here on the weekends01:04
raynerd_i`m new to Irc, who is everyone, like are they teachers or educationalists?01:04
Amaranthsome of them are around, sometimes01:04
Amaranthbut i mean the people who work on edubuntu01:05
raynerd_ahh right! So people from edubuntu actually come on here?01:05
raynerd_when is best time to try?01:05
Amaranthabout 48 hours from now01:06
raynerd_right, Monday01:06
raynerd_you a teacher yourself?01:07
Amaranthstudent :)01:07
raynerd_ahh ok ....lol01:07
Amaranthactually not a student anymore01:07
raynerd_right cool, u at uni?01:07
raynerd_UK? USA?01:07
Amaranthno, i'm out of school now01:08
raynerd_ahh right01:08
Amaranthi did some edubuntu-related stuff for the Google Summer of Code when i was a student01:08
raynerd_right I see. I`m a Chemistry/Science teacher - any good apps you would recommend?01:09
Amaranthi think that's a suite of apps :)01:17
raynerd_wow cheers!01:23
stgraberraynerd_: the educational softwares can be found on the server-addon cd-rom, there were some space issues on the other CDs (I didn't know that the live one doesn't install the edu softwares too)01:24
Amaranthstgraber: it doesn't make sense if they fit on the live environment01:24
Amaranthbecause that basically just gets copied over to the system without changes01:25
stgraberAmaranth: indeed but I heard of some problem with the edu software install during feisty devel cycle (but I only installed servers so never really checked)01:26
raynerd_Is there a benefit of running edubuntu over ubuntu other than the educational apps, which you can install on ubuntu anyway then?01:31
raynerd_its just confusing me01:32
Amaranthedubuntu's main use is as an LTSP server/cient01:32
raynerd_right, which is...?01:33
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Amaranththin clients01:33
raynerd_sorry, please I dont know what any of this means in computer terms!01:33
Amaranthyou have one big server and a bunch of systems that are only network card, and display (well, more or less)01:33
raynerd_right, so basically its just a network?>01:34
Amaranthall the processing and such goes on on the server, the clients boot via the network01:34
raynerd_and whats the advantage of doing it on edubutu and not just on ubuntu01:34
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Amaranthedubuntu automates it01:34
raynerd_right, making it easier to run?01:35
Amaranthif you stick and edubuntu server disk in a computer with two network cards it automatically sets it up as an ltsp server01:35
raynerd_and manage01:35
Amaranththey use the same repositories for their software so you can do all of this with ubuntu01:35
Amaranthedubuntu just makes it easier to setup01:35
raynerd_so, in a classroom sense, what does this allow you to actually do. It isnt making sense still, sorry01:35
raynerd_why do they need to network...what for?01:36
Amaranththe clients aren't full computers, they're dumb terminals01:36
raynerd_haha...right !!! :p01:36
Amaranththey just show stuff on the screen and have a keyboard and mouse hooked up to them01:36
Amaranththe server does all the processing01:36
raynerd_right so as a teacher, so what? kids can do what? teachers can do what? I dont see what networking is doing?01:37
raynerd_ahh they are using the same computer??01:37
Amaranthyou can get a bunch of really old computers for the clients and just have one powerful server01:38
raynerd_wow I see01:38
Amaranthand it lets you watch what the students are doing01:38
raynerd_so basically your running crappy machines, but using one big machine to do the work, making the rubbish computers useful!01:38
Amaranthinstead of buying a bunch of new computers you just get one powerful server and use the old computers as clients01:39
raynerd_are many schools doing this?01:39
Amaranthsome are01:40
Amaranthi dunno about 'many'01:40
raynerd_sounds interesting, but hardwork01:40
Amaranthedubuntu makes it not so hard01:42
Amaranthbut the ltsp stuff is all way over my head01:42
Amaranthso once again, ask on monday :)01:42
raynerd_will do01:42
raynerd_tbh no problem now as i have installed all the aps, just dont get why they didnt get done on the install01:43
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sbalneavMorning all04:08
mohamed_hello sbalneav04:08
mohamed_my question related to ltsp server, i installed  freevo on the server , and when i try to run freevo on thinclient and server only one version working04:10
mohamed_how to make freevo working on both server and clients at the same time04:10
mohamed_this is not related to freevo only but to all programs04:11
sbalneavYou're looking for local apps.04:11
mohamed_anyone can help me  ?04:11
sbalneavapps running on the thin client itself.04:11
sbalneavWe don't support that yet, but you could try to get it working yourself, if you're willing to do some scripting/programming.04:12
mohamed_if there is starting point to start from i can try this04:13
mohamed_because this is why i install ltsp, i want to use it as mediacenter04:13
sbalneavNo, there's no starting point.04:13
mohamed_that anyone can run the same media application at the same time04:13
sbalneavYou'd have to chroot /opt/ltsp/i38604:13
sbalneavapt-get install the application you want, and sshd server04:14
sbalneavget keys set up in the chroot.04:14
sbalneavwrite a script that would mount /home in the chroot.04:14
sbalneavget ldap authentication going.04:14
sbalneavthen, on the server. you'd use ssh to start the app on the thin client.04:15
sbalneavits a big job, and all the pieces aren't there yet.04:15
mohamed_of course i'm sure if my knowledge can reach me to success in this :)04:15
sbalneavI'm an ltsp developer, we'd love to have that feature, and we'll probably be working on it for Hardy, but it's not an easy job04:15
mohamed_i'm sure  = i'm not sue04:16
mohamed_yes, is very good feature04:16
mohamed_i get idea maybe is not correct, ...04:17
mohamed_if i chroot and install freevo on ltsp04:17
mohamed_this can't work ?04:18
sbalneavWell, that's the start.04:18
sbalneavThink about it:04:19
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sbalneavThe application needs to know who you are. There are no users on the thin client terminal, it uses the server for everything, so you need ldap04:19
sbalneavThere's no home dirs on the thin client, so you need those.04:19
sbalneavthe app has to get started some way, so you need ssh.04:20
sbalneavThere's a lot of pieces to that puzzle.04:20
sbalneavthat's why we haven't solved it yet :)04:20
sbalneavit's a hard problem to solve.04:20
mohamed_yes, :)04:20
mohamed_of course i can't make it if u still think in it04:20
mohamed_this is due to my few knowledge04:21
mohamed_sbalneav, can u look at this link and tell me if this can work ..04:23
sbalneavit won't work04:24
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LaserJockmorning all06:20
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moquistsbalneav: ping07:07
moquistLaserJock: ping07:07
LaserJockpongy pongy pongy07:08
moquistpongo pongo purdy07:08
LaserJockthat's my impersonation of a pogo stick07:08
moquistthat's my impression of Disney making up names for a movie07:09
moquistLaserJock: any comments on my moodle package?07:09
LaserJockI haven't got to it this morning07:09
LaserJockit's on my list though07:09
=== moquist nods
moquistK. I'm taking a look at the edubuntu doco ATM, just so sbalneav doesn't feel so lonely.07:11
moquistAt least, I'm trying. I've never worked with yelp-y stuff before, either...07:12
LaserJockgood man07:15
moquistEh, edubuntu/browser-startpage/index.html says "Welcome to Edubuntu 7.04, the Feisty Fawn!"07:16
moquistShould I worry about piddly stuff like saying "Edubuntu distribution of Linux" instead of "Edubuntu Linux distribution"? (The latter makes it sound like "Edubuntu Linux" is the project name, and IIRC Ubuntu wants NOT to be "Ubuntu Linux".)07:18
=== moquist expects to have a largely editorial role here, along with perhaps contributing to an Edubuntu Tips & Tricks section, or something like that.
LaserJocknah, go ahead and put it together07:19
LaserJockand I'll have a look07:19
LaserJockI'm working on About Edubuntu today07:20
moquistOh, I wasn't writing new text. I was considering changing existing text.07:20
LaserJockwe haven't done much with the little docs07:20
=== moquist nods
LaserJockI'm just saying, put it all together and send it to me07:20
moquistOh, ok.07:20
moquistIs there a particular section to which you'd like to point me?07:20
LaserJockjust look at any of it07:21
LaserJockit all needs to be looked over07:21
moquistI grabbed the source from sbalneav's PPA. I should edit those files and then somehow send them to you?07:21
moquistShould I just attach the changed files to an email, or create an updated source package, or what?07:21
LaserJockhehe, whatever you'd like07:21
LaserJockI'm easy ;-)07:21
moquistThis is all assuming I actually do something helpful, here. :)07:22
moquistAgh! I-T-apostrophe-S for ownership!07:22
moquist"open source software" versus "Free Software"...?07:24
LaserJockI'd rather not touch that one07:25
LaserJocknor Linux vs GNU/Linux ;-)07:25
moquistWell, "About Edubuntu" says "open source software". Hence my question.07:25
=== moquist is chaffed whenever he says "Free Software" and somebody corrects him: "You mean Open Source?"
moquistApparently not capitalizing "free software" OR "open source software", though.07:27
=== moquist prefers to capitalize Free Software because it is a clue toward the beer/speech distinction
moquistOh, look. The paragraph in question is immediately followed by the Ubuntu Philosophy. I'm all set.07:28
moquistNo..."Free" is capitalized later. 8-\07:29
moquistYeah, there's a cheerful jumble of "free" and "open source" on this page.07:30
moquistYeah, there's a cheerful jumble of "free", "Free", and "open source" on this page.07:30
moquistI'm going to edit it as I see fit and send you what I think.07:31
=== moquist is plagued by his/her and the distressing compromise "their".
moquistI'm trying to eliminate the pronoun altogether where I can get away with it.07:39
moquistI use the feminine pronouns exclusively in my philosophy papers.07:39
cbx33moquist, what's this for?07:40
moquistWe're discussing the Edubuntu Handbook.07:40
cbx33what part in particular?07:40
moquist"Every computer user should have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees." I'm thinking about just ditching "their" and not using a pronoun there at all.07:41
LaserJockyou might not want to change the freedoms stuff07:41
moquistThough it's more compelling with an owership pronoun there...07:42
LaserJockthat is official Canonical wording07:42
moquistLaserJock: Is that ... OK. NM, then.07:42
=== moquist puts it back
=== moquist wants to change "community driven" to "community-driven", though.
moquistSame page, hopefully not official.07:42
moquistLaserJock: Is this official? "07:44
moquistOur work on Ubuntu is driven by a philosophy based on software freedom that we hope will spread, and bring the benefits of software technology to all parts of the globe."07:44
LaserJockmoquist: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy07:44
moquistI want to change it to: "Our work on Ubuntu and Edubuntu is driven by a philosophy of software freedom that we hope will spread and bring the benefits of software technology to all people, everywhere."07:45
moquistLaserJock: 'globe' doesn't appear on the page you sent, so changing it is probably OK.07:45
=== moquist nods
=== moquist likes nodding
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moquistLaserJock: Under "Manageable", what link(s) can we provide WRT re-branding or the addition or removal of programs? It's great to assert how great Edubuntu is, but it's empty marketing unless we actually provide some indication here of how they can do those things.07:57
moquistMaybe this isn't the place for it, I realize. The "Why Edubuntu?" section is intended to be marketing-ish. But it would seem quite a bit better to provide such links here, IMO.07:58
moquistI wouldn't mind dropping that sentence altogether; I don't think it flows well.08:00
moquistLaserJock: here's what I currently have, with no links needed: http://n01se.net/paste/cJm?pretty=yes08:01
=== moquist changes "scarce to non-existant" to something else...
moquistLaserJock: http://n01se.net/paste/jSH?pretty=yes08:03
moquistOK, last time on that para: http://n01se.net/paste/AK7?pretty=yes08:04
LaserJockvery nice08:06
moquistI was wrong. I couldn't help going back just now and changing "increasingly large" to "increasing". :)08:07
moquistLaserJock: I just emailed you my current version of introduction.xml. I've gotta run ATM.08:16
=== moquist nods
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multikgood evening group10:21
john_sHi all, can anyone tell me what the ldm file is/does10:24
multikLaserJock, hi, what's up?10:25
john_shm, is this too easy or to hard a question? Is it just another display manager like xdm,gdm,kdm etc?10:29
john_snever mind. I found it.10:31
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