Riddelltest what?12:43
Riddellthere's too many things to test automatically12:43
mhbRiddell: you're probably right (as usual), but still, does C. use any tools for some CD testing tasks? Like testing whether it boots on a generic machine, or such.12:45
Riddellon the whole if it doesn't boot we'll know about it12:46
mhbRiddell: right, but I get the feeling using humans to test whether it boots is a waste of valuable resources12:47
mhbof course, hardware-specific tests have to be made, but generic tests should be conducted before that12:47
Riddellwriting something like that might be interesting12:48
Riddellbut testing CDs is about a lot more than just booting12:48
mhbRiddell: true12:50
mhbtesting frameworks are neat nonetheless... I am looking forward to the day when apport will be able to collect necessary information for my system switching to console from usplash12:56
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nixternalthanks for the heads up on the --list-missing...so far kdelibs has none missing :)01:18
nixternalRiddell: ^^01:18
Riddellnixternal: did you grab the other tabs?01:19
nixternalyou lost me with "tabs"01:19
nixternalpimlibs and base, and I will grab more as I go on01:20
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nixternalya...I kind of took tabs as a shrunken version of tarballs :)01:21
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=== Riddell has http://digg.com/linux_unix/KDE_4_0_Delayed_Two_Months_Kubuntu_Impacts arrive in inbox and eyes up nixternal
=== nixternal looks
Riddell"we will start working on a Kubuntu LiveCD with KDE 4 once it starts to stable out a little more" mostly I'm waiting for the CD creation script to be released01:39
nixternalya, but I wasn't 100% sure what we were waiting for, so I made that up a little01:40
nixternaltry to prevent the bashing ahead of time01:40
nixternalya, I don't look at digg much, but someone mentioned it to me so I went to do a "fire prevention" type post there01:42
nixternalat least all of the comments there are positive...which I never expect from digg01:42
nixternalI love how fast kdelibs builds01:44
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mhbhmm, I've got a young grasshopper question for a wise python-qt coder out here: is there a significant performance loss when doing "from qt import *" compared to "from qt import JustWhatYouNeed" ?02:41
mhbpylint is complaining about it, and I've read other papers that were against it, but it is quite hard to work in PyQt without it.02:43
nosrednaekimIt takes longer to import, uses more memory, and its not as safe.02:47
nosrednaekimun-safe as in there are more functions imported into your base namespace.02:48
mhbnosrednaekim: yeah, that's what they tell you :o)02:48
mhbnosrednaekim: what I'd like to know is the numbers ... whether removing the "*" for pyqt and pykde makes your apps run like ferraris02:49
mhbor it's just a 0.01 sec that you won't miss in a configuration tool you launch once a millenium02:50
nosrednaekimwell, I have just heard about the speed thing. I did notice the cut down in namespace though... I was dumb enough to name one of MY functions the same as a fuction that I imported with a *02:51
mhbnosrednaekim: right, it should speed your apps up, that's why pylint and others warn you.02:54
mhbnosrednaekim: I just wanted to know the size of the speedup.02:54
nosrednaekimhmm I don't know. let me test something :)02:54
nosrednaekimlol... just importing what I wanted made the start-up time about 5 times SLOWER02:57
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mhbnosrednaekim: you sure?02:58
mhbnosrednaekim: didn't you have a .pyc for one and not for the other?02:58
mhbjust guessing02:58
nosrednaekimI did a whole bunch of imports from system moduels02:58
mhbmoduels, that's a nice typo :o)02:59
=== mhb likes homophones
nosrednaekimwhen I "import *" the time is "real    0m0.044s"03:01
nosrednaekimwhen I "import <module name>" its "real    0m0.190s"03:02
nosrednaekimor so.03:02
mhbI guessed that03:05
mhbthanks for testing03:05
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miliankmail crashes everytime I try to paste somthing into the composer03:08
miliansince it's still v3.5.7 I think it's some kubuntu changes?03:09
milianfeisty was very stable03:09
mhbmilian: thanks for reporting, nixternal told us the same thing03:09
nixternalthere is a bug report for it, I haven't looked at it yet03:09
mhbmilian: yes, it's either us or the new "enterprise" branch of kdepim03:09
milianmhb: good03:10
miliannixternal: better :)03:10
miliandamnit, it's kinda hart to not paste anything in a mail :D03:13
milianeven if you know it doesnt work and you'll lose all your content...03:13
mhbmilian: yeah, bugs like this are the reason why we don't recommend gutsy for production03:14
milianI'm bleeding for the bleeding edge ;-)03:14
milianand someone has to use it to find some bugs03:14
mhbmilian: but I'm quite sure it gets fixed soon, because the devs also write emails sometimes03:14
nixternalmhb: I think all of the devs use Mutt :)03:16
nosrednaekimI Pine for those old days of Mutt.03:17
milianI'm off to bed03:18
milianhave a good night (or day)03:18
mhbnixternal: oh do they? That means I'm not a dev :o)03:18
mhbnixternal: time to change my appearance then ... fr0m n0w 0n 1'M a scr1pt k1dd13 :o)03:19
nixternalmhb: hahaha03:19
mhbnosrednaekim: by the way, do you happen to know about an "krazy"-like code checker for python-qt/kde ?03:43
mhbnosrednaekim: pylint or pychecker are cool, but they aren't "krazy" enough :o)03:44
nixternalRiddell: up to kdebase, and I just realised they split it into -workspace as well...this one may be a little tricky for my current newbset03:44
=== nixternal needs food..back in a bit
nosrednaekimI don't check my python code... I just run it :)03:46
nixternalI just run mine too, and then it yells at me03:46
mhbheh, still it won't yell if you do some childish thing that will make your app 2x slower or so, but it'll work03:47
mhband code checking for basic/common mistakes is what I'd like03:47
mhb(which is what krazy does)03:48
mhbhm, let's try #python03:48
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nosrednaekimyes.. that would be the ideal location..03:56
nosrednaekimwho maintains adept?04:02
Jucatoapt-cache show adept says...04:03
Jucatooriginal maintainer would be mornfall though04:03
nosrednaekimRiddell it is... I want a simple feature added. I guess I should file a wishe04:04
Jucatowhat feature would that be?04:04
Jucatoa patch would be better than a wishie ehehe04:04
nosrednaekimpatch for download script support04:09
nosrednaekimI don't know C++, but I coded up a little python script to do it.04:09
nosrednaekimI guess you can't call python from a C++ app.04:21
mhbnosrednaekim: no04:22
mhbnosrednaekim: well, hardly04:22
nosrednaekimI guess you COULD call a python script though.04:22
nosrednaekimas a os.sytem call04:22
nosrednaekimor whatever it is in C++04:22
mhbnosrednaekim: that you could, but it's usually easier to reimplement the original code04:22
mhband faster and nicer and whatever :o)04:23
nosrednaekimyeah and seeing as how the original code is only 15 lines....:)04:23
mhbnosrednaekim: however, the future of Adept is unsure04:23
Jucatoit is? O.o04:23
nosrednaekimuhh oh.04:24
=== Jucato snickers
nosrednaekimwhat are they going to replace it with?04:24
mhbnosrednaekim: there was some gossip about creating a Python app for that, with KDE and GNOME frontends04:24
nosrednaekimsounds good.04:25
mhbJucato: you're the upstream, so I guess you're screaming eeek! because you spent your whole day today in improving and porting adept to KDE4 :o)04:25
Jucatowhat's KDE4?04:26
mhbJucato: from my point of view it's a complicated piece of software that should share its backend with the GNOME counterpart, but doesn't04:27
mhbJucato: sharing backends is great. You know why? Because we can leave fixing bugs to the Ubuntu devs and our (KDE) app will be improving for free04:27
mhband we can slack and write plasmoids or something04:28
Jucatoyeah back/front ends are great04:28
Jucatono doubt about that04:28
Jucatoand  I guess the easiest frontend to use would be python, eh?04:29
nosrednaekimpython a frontend?04:29
mhbfrontend language, I guess04:29
mhbyes, because the bindings are binaries anyway, so it's not very slow anyway04:29
mhbtoo much anyways :o)04:30
nosrednaekimPyKDE4 hasn't been released yet... I'm waiting VERY impatiently for it.04:30
mhbnixternal: hmm, not much help from the great gurus in #python04:30
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mhbnixternal: it seems that when you ask a simple question, they treat you like a simple programmer04:30
nosrednaekimnot like the great and advanced mhb04:31
nosrednaekimsavior of the kubuntu restricted-manager.04:31
mhbnixternal: which is probably for the best, but I always prefer not to be told about "change algorithms if you want to speed up" :o)04:31
=== Jucato already thought that apt was the backend... probably what's needed is a middle-end? O.o
mhbnosrednaekim: haha, I'm clueless when it comes to some subjects, but it's a bit boring when others assume you're totally clueless :o)04:32
Jucatooh well... don't mind me04:32
mhbJucato: right04:32
mhbJucato: actually04:32
mhbJucato: dpkg is the backend04:32
nosrednaekimdid you guys see the package kit thing?04:33
mhbJucato: apt is a layer above it04:33
nosrednaekimthat looks pretty nice04:33
mhbJucato: then there's python-apt04:33
Jucatoaaah the endless flow of backs and fronts04:33
mhbJucato: then there could be a common core for the package managers04:33
nosrednaekimfor which there is no DOCS04:33
mhbJucato: then there's python-kde or pygtk :o)04:33
Jucatomhb: I just hope that this common package manager would be worked on "at the same time" from both Ubuntu and Kubuntu... and not Ubuntu first, then Kubuntu next release :(04:34
nosrednaekimto repeat my buried question. "did you see package-kit"?04:34
Jucatowhat package kit?04:34
mhbnosrednaekim: nope, what's that?04:34
mhbJucato: well, if you volunteer to implement it for Kubuntu, it will be so04:35
nosrednaekimdbus frintnd to various packagemanagers04:35
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nosrednaekimI can't type tonight.. sorry04:35
JucatoI mean the backend of course... anyway... don't mind me. just ranting hehe04:35
Jucatonosrednaekim: haven't seen it04:35
nosrednaekimcurrently I think there is a YUM and whatever-mandriva-uses interfaces to it. With an apt  interface in progress.04:36
nosrednaekimbut no KDE frontend yet.04:36
=== Jucato has issues with whatever backend/database adept_installer is using...
nosrednaekimpython -kde04:37
Jucatodbus eh...04:37
nosrednaekimyeah... it looks interesting.04:37
nosrednaekimespecially the use cases04:37
mhbnosrednaekim: you mean "He is allowed to install pre-approved software from the hogwart-corporate-build repo but not from any other repo."04:38
nosrednaekimlol... no the one with the open-office user automatically getting the clipart libraries.04:39
mhbthe only problem I see in it ... is dbus04:40
nosrednaekimand whats wrong with that?04:40
mhbwhy using dbus for that? It doesn't make much sense.04:40
nosrednaekimwhy not?04:40
nosrednaekimthere are d-bus bindings for every programming language.04:41
Jucatoand dbus is becoming/has become a (fd.o) standard so...04:41
mhbnosrednaekim: I think it's like aiming a bazooka on a mosquito04:41
Jucatobah! I shouldn't get into technical discussions...04:41
nosrednaekimwell... at least the mosquito is dead ;)04:42
mhbnosrednaekim: I guess so. I am just a fan of the old time backend-frontend relationship04:43
Jucatodbus could be considered backend or middle-end...04:43
mhbnosrednaekim: if the frontend is coded well enough, the backend could be changed without the frontend changing a line of code04:43
mhbbut I may be totally wrong04:44
mhbI'm not a dbus guru04:44
Jucatoaaah the advantages of separating interface from implementation...04:44
Jucatojust like in classes...04:44
nosrednaekimOk, I have to go.04:45
nosrednaekimits getting late here04:45
mhbnosrednaekim: late? it's 4:45 a.m. here :o)04:45
nosrednaekimJucato: thought you were staying out of tech discussions;)04:46
nosrednaekimmhb: thats not late.... thats early.04:46
mhbnosrednaekim: not if you haven't slept yet04:46
mhbthen it's late04:46
nosrednaekimits almost 11pm here04:46
Jucatonosrednaekim: yeah... that was ajust a simple C++ remark :P04:46
mhbJucato: separating interface from implementation can be done using templates04:46
mhband classes04:46
mhbJucato: no need to use dbus or jebus04:47
Jucatoyou took me too seriously :)04:47
mhbJucato: and you still end up coding the library in either C/C++04:47
nosrednaekimmhb is old fashioned.04:47
=== nosrednaekim is going.
mhbsee you04:47
=== Jucato is just reviewing his C++ book and is coincidentally on the topic of "Separating Interface from Implementation"
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mhbJucato: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_C++_Design is what I'm reading04:51
Jucatohm.. ok thanks :)04:52
JucatoI'm still a beginner-level C++-er... so :)04:52
mhbJucato: ah, yes, that's not for you.04:53
Jucatomy book's exercises make me even feel more inadequate :/04:53
=== Jucato will redo those later...
mhbJucato: you should be also reading the new tutorials on KDE's techbase04:54
mhbJucato: it will take me a lot of time to adapt to all those new APIs :o)04:54
Jucatoyeah. but I'm not laying my hands on anything Qt or KDE yet... I tried to, but haven't gotten my head around most of the object-oriented stuff04:54
Jucatodon't worry, I don't have Qt/KDE 3 to corrupt my head yet :P04:55
JucatoI'm gonna start with Qt4 and KDE4 directly04:55
mhbJucato: slightly off-topic, I wanted to create a simple plasmoid for showing all mounted drivers today.04:56
Jucato(anything KDE-related isn't offtopic to me :P)04:56
mhbJucato: solid worked well, but when trying to adapt a plasma tutorial to my liking, I ended up with a widget that renders its top down corner only04:57
Jucatowasn't there a plasmoid for solid in playground?04:58
Jucatobtw, thanks for the pointer to where those plasmoids where04:58
mhbJucato: that's the downside of using unstable APIs - you never know whether your code or their code that's broken04:58
mhbalso, it could be the tutorial code, because I was following it04:58
Jucatomhb: the advantage of starting late is that a) Qt 4 is very much stable already and b) by the tieme I get to KDE stuff, 4.0 would have been already released :)04:59
mhbJucato: yeah.05:00
mhbJucato: but I guess the real experience should be expected from 4.1.05:00
mhbJucato: I would like to see a central point for progress bar like those mockups at kde-look suggested, or a common theme for notifications05:01
Jucatoyeah. but by that time, I should be helping making the real experience in 4.1  :)05:01
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nixternalmhb: I noticed their attitude in there as well05:38
nixternalhowdy jjesse05:38
jjessehowdy nixternal05:38
nixternalyou and the wife enjoying the weekend?05:38
jjesseyeah we are, spent the afternoon at the aquariaum and the olympic park area before the storms hit05:39
nixternalgood ol' olympic park05:39
nixternalyou see the cnn building?05:39
jjesseyeah we did05:40
nixternalheh, my dad was there all week actually05:40
jjessesomeone in the class i was teaching actually works for turner broadcasting05:40
nixternalI have been raised to dislike turner05:40
nixternaldad is a broadcast engineer..so I am not supposed to like abc, cbs, anything turner, and oprah :)05:41
jjessehe dislikes turner as well05:41
jjessewhat are you supposed to like then?05:41
jjesseif you can't like cbs abc etc05:41
nixternalnothing I guess :)05:42
jjessei can't wait to go get faster internet05:42
jjessethis hotel is so slow05:42
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=== LongPointyStick wishes someone would offer to maintain htdig
LongPointyStickor have some other help system10:36
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_StefanS_Tonio_: found the segfault for paired devices; will prepare a patch for you.11:06
_StefanS_Tonio_: in kdebluetooth that is ;)11:07
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Riddellnixternal: awake?11:25
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Riddellnixternal: I'm moving kde4beta to kubuntu-members ppa11:59
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RiddellTonio_, allee:   File "/usr/bin/kblueplugd", line 13, in <module> import gobject12:08
RiddellImportError: No module named gobject12:08
Riddelldoes it have to use gobject?  why not qt?12:08
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Tonio_Riddell: hum, I didn't wrote that script, so maybe allee has its own reason for this12:46
Tonio_Riddell: strange that you get that error, I didn't notice this before, lemme look12:46
Tonio_Riddell: distutils.errors.DistutilsExecError: command 'kbluetooth' failed with exit status 25512:49
Tonio_Riddell: I now get this, but the process launches....12:50
Tonio_Riddell: I suspect that some changes in kbluetooth executable result that it doesn't launch correctly as a daemon12:50
Tonio_Riddell: I'll tru to get that fixed today12:50
Tonio_Riddell: the point is that it'll not detect unplug now cause the script crashes.....12:51
Tonio_Riddell: and I'll try to figure out why that gobject thing12:51
Tonio_Riddell: well it's kbluetooth that seems to fail btw12:54
Tonio_Riddell: and yeah , the import gobject seems unused12:54
Riddellit's used12:55
Tonio_Riddell: hu ?12:55
Tonio_Riddell: by what ?12:55
Riddellloop = gobject.MainLoop()12:55
Tonio_Riddell: oups, still sleeping hehe :)12:56
Tonio_Riddell: how would that we done with import qt ?12:56
Tonio_qt.MainLoop() ? ;)12:56
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Tonio_oki I had a kde problem in my /var/tmp, no kbluetooth issue now12:58
Tonio_Riddell: I'll look at my python book on that gobject thing ;)01:00
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RiddellI doubt it'll say anything, it's a question of whether you can use the qt mainloop with dbus01:14
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Tonio_Riddell: oki so I'll search the web :)01:30
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freeflyingridicuous, my strigi can not index anything02:36
mhbhi folks02:42
Jucatohi mhb02:42
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nosrednaekimhey mhb got enough sleep over the day?02:49
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mhbnosrednaekim: sure02:58
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gustavonareaHello, everyone. Is it me or Kmail is unusable in Tribe 5? I've already reported 3 bugs on kmail (133857, 135787 and 136368), but Bug #136368 is the worst of all. If it's all due to the Enterprise branch, then why was it included so late (in Tribe 5, instead of Tribe 1)?03:34
ubotuBug 136368 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/136368 is private03:34
mhbgustavonarea: it's not you03:35
mhbgustavonarea: I can't really tell why it was included in Tribe 5, though03:36
nixternalRiddell: roger that03:38
nixternalmhb: do you ever sleep?03:38
nosrednaekimyeah.... but he sleeps during the day03:39
mhbduring the morning, to be exact :o)03:39
mhbwell, let's do some debugging03:40
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alleeRiddell: I have chosen gobject, because it was the only one found in the python dbus tutorial.  qt-dbus included no examples.  Can you point to example code of qt-dbus event handling.  kblueplugd need no x window.  So a window less loop would be best suited03:50
nixternalRiddell: do you want me to continue on with the rest of the beta packages, or are you doing them now?03:57
alleegreat.  Nothing depends on python-qt4-dbus already :(03:59
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Riddellnixternal: hi04:06
Riddellnixternal: I've done kdebase and kdepim04:06
Riddellnixternal: just let me know if you start another one so we don't duplicate04:06
Riddellnixternal: and upload to kubuntu-members ppa04:06
Riddellallee: I don't know of any examples I'm afraid04:07
gnomefreakRiddell: is kde4 ready to run inplace of kde304:07
Riddellalthough there must be something out there04:08
Riddellgnomefreak: no04:08
gnomefreakok i know release is fairly soon was just wondering04:08
Riddellit's not until december04:09
gnomefreakoh i was thinking october04:10
mhbgnomefreak: it was delayed04:10
gnomefreakmakes sense04:10
gnomefreaklooking at release schedule see how many betas they plan on04:11
Jucatodo we have a sort of plan on how to go about the installation of KDE 4 on an existing KDE 3.5.x system? do we overwrite the default? install in a different path like we do right now?04:11
Jucatognomefreak: from 2, they added 2 more04:12
Jucatothe first plan was only 2 betas04:12
gnomefreakthey also pushed beta 1 where beta 2 should have been released it seems04:12
nixternalRiddell: thanks for the kdebase-workspace...that one threw me for a curve04:12
Riddelloh yes, that too04:12
nixternalI have just setup kubuntu-ppa in dput, so I am ready to go :)04:13
gnomefreakbeta2 was aug. 29th but seems beta was just released04:13
Jucatoalthough it should be noted that the schedule talks about "tagging", which is a bit different from "release"...04:13
gnomefreaknixternal: you play with ppa yet?04:13
nixternaloh ya04:13
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=== gnomefreak starting to hate it
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Riddellgnomefreak: why?04:14
gnomefreakpackages keep failing to upload (things that i should have checked for like licenses and crap04:14
Jucatosilly Ctrl+Q...04:15
nixternalRiddell: kdepimlibs 4 or 5 :)04:15
Riddellthe source package04:16
gnomefreakoh and you cant take back packages (once that is used than ill hate it less)04:16
nixternalgnomefreak: gotta do all of your checking before you upload first :p04:16
Riddellgnomefreak: you can retry builds04:18
Riddellppa doesn't care about licences04:18
gnomefreakyeah but if it uploads than fails to build i have to change version04:18
gnomefreakRiddell: yes it does04:18
gnomefreaktop left corner is the TOS04:19
Riddellbut in general, using a ppa isn't a substitute for compiling it on your machine first to make sure it actually compiles and builds properly04:19
gnomefreakit has to be a free license04:19
nixternalRiddell: ya, ppa does worry about licenses :)04:19
nixternaldon't know what the list of acceptable licenses are, but it will complain on non-free licenses04:19
Riddellcomplain in which way?04:20
nixternalI believe it will reject the upload, or maybe it allows the upload but will FTBS due to the license04:20
gnomefreaki was missing one they wouldnt let me upload04:20
gnomefreakit wont reject it it stops it before it trys04:20
nixternalahh, OK04:20
RiddellI wonder how it knows04:20
nixternalI can't remember exactly what Matt Revell stated about it04:20
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Riddellnixternal: I'm doing kde4edu04:24
nixternalannma would be proud :)04:24
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Riddellgnomefreak: "This PPA does not contain any packages yet." so you uploaded and it automatically rejected?04:28
gnomefreakRiddell: if that is from my personal one i have gotten to that one yet04:29
gnomefreakRiddell: im building for mozillateam PPA04:29
gnomefreakbut it takes a bit of time beofre its accepted sometimes and even longer to build04:29
Riddellyes, PPA will be low priority for the buildds04:30
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=== allee will google later for qt-dbus examples and rewrite kblueplugd
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mhbRiddell: I've got some updates on the evil kpart bug 11773104:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 117731 in python-kde3 "Python crashes after attaching pty to a konsole kpart" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11773104:55
mhbRiddell: the interesting thing is, when you use edgy (so the apps work), there is an extra output line04:56
mhbRiddell: that isn't shown on an unaffected Gutsy machine04:56
mhbKWrited - Listening on Device /dev/ttyp004:57
Riddellhave you tried recompiling the edgy kdelibs and base on gutsy and seeing if the problem occurs?04:58
mhbno, partly because recompiling anything on an affected machine (which is usually an older one) takes forever04:59
mhbalso I've no idea if KDE 3.5.5 will compile04:59
mhbbut I'll try it later today04:59
mhbon a different i386 machine05:00
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alleeUhm, kmail and konqueror, 'refuse' to download anything.  With feisty it was enough to stop knetworkmanager.  Not working with gusty anymore :(05:32
Riddelleven if you quit knetworkmanager?05:33
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alleeRiddell: yes :(05:58
Riddellallee: if you stop network manager daemon?05:59
alleeRiddell: Argl, found it.  Played with networkstatustestservice at work and it was restored at home.  I killed it and now konqueror06:01
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alleeQT dbus problem:  import dbus.mainloop.qt  => ImportError: No module named qt   See file:///usr/share/doc/python-qt4-doc/html/pyqt4ref.html#the-dbus-support-module   There's only dbus/mainloop.so in python-qt4-dbus,  not .py.  apt-file search dbus/mainloop/qt finds no .py too.  Can a python class be defined without any .py file?06:26
ScottKWhat happens if just open a Python shell and "import qt"06:28
alleeScottK: Nothing import qt is the line before import dbus.mainloop.qt ;) I've checked in python interacively and import qt is okay06:29
ScottKTo answer your question though, I believe that you can import a C extension just fine if it's properly built, etc.06:31
mhbno subdirs in /usr/share/python-support/python-dbus/dbus/mainloopp06:34
mhbit's just __init__.py and glib.py06:34
mhband python-qt4 sources have a dbus/ directory with what I dare presume is the binding06:37
mhbbut looking at /var/lib/dpkg/info/python-qt4.list I don't see any dbus files installed06:38
mhballee: I guess you have tried building your own python-qt4, haven't you?06:39
alleemhb: no.06:40
mhballee: judging by the information I posted above, I think it might be worth a shot06:40
alleehmm, with 64 kbit link?  no fun ;)06:41
mhballee: okay, I'll do it for ya :o)06:41
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mhbThe dbus support module will be installed in06:43
mhbthat seems okay, I wonder if it will build it correctly as well06:44
mhballee: bingo!06:55
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mhballee: in order to get that module to load, you have to a) fetch the python-qt4 sources and have build-deps06:56
mhbb) python configure.py06:56
mhbc) cd dbus/; make; sudo make install06:56
mhballee: also, the Ubuntu package should provide that by default, someone should be notified about it06:57
mhballee: hmm... or, of course, install python-qt4-dbus06:59
mhbsilly me for not checking it first06:59
mhbI was looking for a workaround so hard I forgot to check the debian/ dir :o)07:00
mhballee: so, there you go07:02
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alleemhb: thx.  In c): what does make install  install that is not in the pkgs?07:55
mhballee: nothing, see my later comments - it's in the python-qt4-dbus07:57
mhballee: I didn't know it's separated like that07:57
alleemhb: I'm confused I've python-qt4-dbus installed.  that's the pkgs with only the dbus/mainloop/qt.so file07:58
alleeoh, python-qt4 source + build dep are 4,3 hours to go :(07:59
duccioHi all...I'm new! How can I contribute to kubuntu development?08:00
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Riddellduccio: please do08:00
Riddellbut you need to tell us a bit about your skills08:00
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_Simemhb: I'm not sure if PyQt4 supports DBus.08:01
Riddelldocumentation, packaging, bug triage, bug fixing, programming, testing are all areas of help08:01
_Simemhb: you can use the normal DBus bindings though.08:01
duccioI'm Italian...so my English is not perfect08:02
duccioI am an Informatic Engineer08:02
duccioUniversity of Siena08:02
allee_Sime: according to file:///usr/share/doc/python-qt4-doc/html/pyqt4ref.html#the-dbus-support-module it does.  And there a dbus/mainloop/qt.so in python-qt4-dbus08:02
duccioi've finished my study one year ago08:02
_Simeallee: mmm... I reserve the right to be wrong. ;) I know that the normal DBus bindings work with Qt and teh glib event loop.08:03
allee_Sime: problem is I for import qt then import dbus.mainloop.qt  -> ImportError: No module named qt08:03
duccioi don't know much about ubuntu way of development08:04
allee_Sime: kblueplugd works with glib eventloop already.  But Riddel (and me) would like to have it g* free ;)08:05
ducciobut i'm interested on helping develop08:05
duccioso...what should i do?08:06
Riddellduccio: documentation, packaging, bug triage, bug fixing, programming, testing are all areas of help08:06
Riddellduccio: any of those sound interesting?08:07
_Simeallee: the dbus module is probably built on the C dbus implementation which in turn uses glib.08:07
_Simeallee: I'm not sure if you can avoid glib.08:07
duccioi think that bug fixing and programming sounds good08:07
ducciobut i don't know how much time I can assure08:08
duccioShould I read some documentation?08:10
allee_Sime: well would be nice to not use import gobject and import dbus.mainloop.glib.   But on the other hand and a bit more important.  import dbus.mainloop.qt fails.  And that's a bug that need to be fixed ;)  But as this happens during the 2nd iteration of my first python script im pretty glueless what goes wrong08:10
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duccioRiddell: next step I should do?08:14
mhballee: it won't fail if you've python-qt4-dbus install08:17
mhballee: at least it won't fail for me anymore08:17
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Riddellduccio: I have a small programming task that needs doing08:17
_Simeis this all on gutsy?08:18
Riddellduccio: our splash screen create a cache of the image, which means when we get a new wallpaper the splash still shows the old image08:18
alleemhb: ii  python-qt4-dbus               4.3-2ubuntu4                  DBus Support for PyQt408:18
duccioi understand08:18
alleemhb: 'always' was installed08:18
Riddellduccio: if you know shell, this could probably be fixed in startkde from kdebase08:18
mhballee: was it? Well, I didn't have it installed08:19
alleemhb: and import qt ; import dbus.mainloop.qt works now for you without error?08:19
Riddellduccio: apt-get source kdebase and edit startkde to check if /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png is newer than $KDEHOME/share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/08:19
mhballee: right...08:19
mhballee: hmm, but it may be because of that first compile-it-yourself08:20
duccioyes...i think so, but i've never work on this08:20
alleemhb: maybe.08:20
mhballee: but I have only qt.so in there, so that is the correct state08:21
duccio(download the source code)08:22
ScottKRiddell: Do you think it would be possible to arrange it so that kubuntu-members PPA didn't send FTBFS messages to everyone in kubuntu-members?08:23
mhballee: I think I see the culprit08:23
mhballee: are you there?08:24
RiddellScottK: hmm, possibly we should start yet another team for this08:25
mhbsudo ln -s /usr/lib/python2.5/dbus/mainloop/qt.so /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/dbus/mainloop/qt.so08:25
mhballee: ^^ do this and tell me what happens08:25
duccio...i'm editing startkde...08:26
ScottKRiddell: I'm not an expert in how to deal with it, but I think that the FTBFS messages out to somehow just go to whoever did the upload.08:27
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duccioRiddell: i'm very slow because i don't know this language..08:35
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alleemhb: you're my hero! Works.   I wanted to check this, but didn't found yet how to get the MODULE path python search ;)08:39
_StefanS_Tonio_: I found the problem in kdebluetooth, its hasBonding() that crashes the Paired/Trusted Devices.08:40
_StefanS_Tonio_: im not quite sure how to fix it though :(08:40
mhballee: so it WAS a package problem.08:40
allee^^ IS ;)08:40
mhballee: true, but I'll try to change that soon-ish. :o)08:40
nosrednaekimis this the Kmail problem?08:41
ScottKallee: To add it to your Python path, import sys and then insert the path to your module in sys.path08:41
alleembh: hmm, why in /var/lib/python.   Sounds somehow wrong place (and dpkg -S var/lib/python2.5  find's nothing)08:42
ScottKmhb: ^^08:42
alleeScottK: thx!!!! :)08:43
mhballee: no08:43
duccioRiddell: What documentation should I read to understand the syntax of startkde?08:43
mhballee: /var/lib/python-support is used by many packages08:44
mhballee: the error lies elsewhere - the Python interpreter find dbus.mainloop08:44
mhballee: finds it in /var/lib/python-support/...08:44
alleebedtime for the kids.  bbl08:45
mhballee: but the qt.so is elsewhere, thus it cannot be found08:45
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duccioRiddell: if [/usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png -nt $KDEHOME/share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin] ; then echo "newer" else echo "older"08:53
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duccioRiddell: I read some about shell and I came back next days...it's ok?08:58
ducciobye all09:00
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mhbthere is something rotten in the state of python-qt409:51
manchicken__Does xgl screw with keymappings?09:52
manchicken__mhb: Is there?  Are you talking about the "C/C++ Object Deleted" error?09:52
manchicken__I was getting that the other day.  I'm trying to learn Python and scratch an itch with a little Python app to manage my resolv.conf and routes.09:53
Riddellmhb: not that I know of, why?09:54
mhbmanchicken__: not actually, I am starting with compilation09:54
mhbRiddell: well, if you have read the conversation with allee today, there is a bug that prevents dbus to work with Qt409:54
mhbRiddell: I am trying to fix it, and while debuilding pyqt4 the whole compilation of it is running twice09:55
Riddellhmm, I thought doko had changed that09:55
Riddellone build is for debug version09:55
mhbRiddell: ah, that makes sense09:55
mhbRiddell: well, in current version of the source the qt.so file is moved from /var/lib/python-support to /usr/lib/python2.5/, which breaks it09:58
mhbRiddell: because all the other python-dbus files are in /var/lib/...09:58
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Riddellhas doko done an upload if it recently?10:04
mhband yes, there is a fix dbus install location changelog entry10:05
mhbRiddell: in what way was it fixed then? Was moving to /usr/lib/python2.5/ the fix? If so, why?10:05
mhbI have the most recent version of python-dbus, which resides in /var/lib/python-support10:06
mhblets ask him10:07
manchicken__Okay, so /usr/bin/X is now a dead link...10:08
manchicken__I'm guessing that it's supposed to point to /usr/bin/Xorg?10:08
mhbmanchicken__: works here10:08
crimsunx11-common should provide /usr/bin/X10:08
RiddellI don't know what was changed10:09
manchicken__Should reconfiguring x11-common fix that?10:09
nixternalRiddell: I need some feedback from as many KDE devs as possible...would posting to kde-core-devel be my best bet, or is there a better route?10:09
mhbnixternal: sounds right to me, if you ask me (but you do not :o)10:11
manchicken__Ahh, I figured out why Xgl is running all the time now.10:11
alleemhb: when you fix python, check why qeventloop.html  talks about exec_(...).  It's not exec_(...) it's exec_loop(...).   Hah, and loop.exec_loop() gives a SEGV.  Great :(10:12
alleemhb: err, python-qt that is10:13
Riddellnixternal: it depends what the question is10:13
nixternalRiddell: trying to get a list of apps that are ready for people to start doing doc work on...my blog post got about 10 new people interested in helping out KDE with docs10:13
mhballee: hmm, interesting. Perhaps _Sime was right that dbus in pyqt4 being broken10:14
mhballee: I fixed the packages, but I need to know why doko changed it in the first place... perhaps I lack knowledge of the greater scheme10:15
mhballee: could you pastebin your crashing code for my easier testing experience? :o)10:17
alleemhb: okay.    Let's see what he thinks about it.10:17
alleemhb: wait ..10:17
Riddellnixternal: kde-core-devel is for libraries mostly, not apps10:18
allee^^ mhb10:18
Riddellallee: does that work?10:19
alleeRiddell: no, it SEGV at the end when entering the eventloop  loop.exec_loop() :(10:20
mhballee: that segvs? Not here, I'm afraid10:22
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mhballee: unable to execute kbluetooth: No such file or directory10:23
mhballee: ^^ is that a block to the segfault?10:23
tmske_I'm trying to connect to the internet with knetworkmanager, but at 57% I get an connection error, but it looks like I can connect for some programs, konversation for example :-) but some can not connect, like konqueror10:24
tmske_but those programs can only connect if I use dhclient manually10:24
alleemhb: eh?  you have no /usr/bin/kbluetooth ?10:24
alleemhb: here output is like: ...10:24
alleewaiting for bt device (un)plug events ...10:24
alleeSegmentation fault (core dumped)10:24
alleemhb: so it's he loop.exec_loop()10:24
alleemhb: interesting is I changed it to loop.exec_loop(QEventLoop.AllEvents), which according to the exec_() the default.  But: too many arguments to QEventLoop.exec_loop(), 0 at most expected10:26
alleemhb: better missing docs than wrong one ;)10:26
mhballee: what package is it in?10:27
tmske_it's really strange; in kopete jabber works, but msn doesn't work10:28
mhballee: kdebluetooth I guess10:28
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alleemhb: yes10:29
mhballee: oh my, I've tried to update it and now dpkg return an error code because of a overwriting library10:30
alleemhb: did you removed he sym link you've created?10:31
mhballee: ah, fixed. Right, it segfaults.10:32
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mhballee: by the way, why are you using Qt3 and the Qt Dbus bindings?10:35
mhballee: it's not really nice10:35
alleemhb: hmm, man QEventLoop says exec()  without args.10:36
mhbAFAIK, the dbus bindings are only for Qt410:36
alleemhb: I asssume qt4.   mhmm, what does import qt do?10:36
mhbimports Qt310:36
alleemhb: oh sh*t10:37
mhballee: http://www.rkblog.rk.edu.pl/w/p/introduction-pyqt4/10:37
mhbshort version: from PyQt4 import QtCore, QtGui10:38
mhballee: although I am usually using the uglier:10:38
mhbfrom PyQt4.QtGui import *10:38
mhbfrom PyQt4.QtCore import *10:38
manchickenNaughty naughty :)10:38
alleemhb: yeah qt.qVersion -> 3.3.710:39
mhballee: Qt4's QEventLoop seems to be fine10:42
mhbexec_ like the API says10:42
alleemhb: you don't get: QEventLoop: Cannot be used without QApplication10:43
mhballee: you need a QApp alright, is there a reason not to create one?10:43
alleemhb: hmm, I assume it's okay.10:47
mhballee: it seems not to crash10:48
mhballee: but I have no bluetooth devices at home to prove it10:48
alleemhb: I'll test here.10:49
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alleemhb: seem not to work :(  Nothing printed on addition/removal.  Uh, and ignoes ctrl-c too :(10:57
mhballee: uh oh. Well, let me take a look at the code. I should learn the new APIs of KDE4 anyway.10:58
Riddellnixternal: rest of kde4beta uploaded (except bindings)10:59
Riddellnixternal: if you are wanting to do more, it needs uploaded to feisty in the ppa10:59
alleemhb: me too :)  Here's my current version: http://paste.debian.net/3600011:03
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nixternalRiddell: I will work on it here in a few...that will give me something to do tonight11:11
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mhballee: http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2007-January/015193.html11:20
mhballee: read that?11:20
mhband tried that?11:21
alleemhb: I'll do...11:22
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alleemhb: heh, works: http://paste.debian.net/index.php11:26
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alleemhb: ^^ I tested with plug/unplug a second bt device.  (Before I stoped kblueoothd by hand)11:27
alleemhb: can you upload to main?11:27
mhballee: nope11:28
alleemhb: k11:28
alleemhb: only strange thing is. kblueplugd ignores ctrl-c,   killall lblueplugd or the other hand works11:29
nosrednaekimits a daemon.... daemons aren't killed with ctrl+c'11:31
alleenosrednaekim: it's not a daemon.  I did detach from tty and don't fork into background.  It's a little qt app and those can be usually killed by ctrl-c11:32
mhballee: you *did* detach from tty?11:33
alleemhb: eh, sorry I didn't.11:33
alleewell, as it's normally autostarted in background during login.  Not reacting to Ctrl-C is not a real problem.  Still anoying for test, and more anoying that I don't understand yet why the signal get's blocked11:37
alleeRiddell: ^^  so if you don't care: http://paste.debian.net/36001  uses qt + dbus11:38
alleetime for bed.  Nite11:39
mhbgood work allee11:40
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Riddellnixternal: you can probably upload with feisty-backports in the ppa and it should pick up qt 4.312:17
Riddellmhb: do you have a fix for python-qt4-dbus then?12:18
mhbRiddell: a debdiff? Almost, but I'd like to ask doko first. He must have had a reason for it to break.12:19
Riddellmhb: what do I need to move around?  just to test allee's script12:20
mhbRiddell: scroll up a bit and find my message about a "sudo ln -s"12:20
Riddellgroovy, that seems to work12:21
RiddellTonio_: you forgot the -0ubuntu1 part on the kdebluetooth version number12:24
RiddellI've uploaded it with allee's new qt happy script12:25
Riddellmhb: send doko an e-mail is probably the best way to ask12:25
mhbRiddell: okay12:33
Tonio_Riddell: thanks a lot :)12:37
Tonio_Riddell: yeah, I forgot that dch uses 1 by default instead of 0ubuntu1.... sorry12:38

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