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nixternalhiya PhreeStyle-home01:23
PhreeStyle-homeid like to help with documentation, but dont know where to start01:23
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nixternalwhich distro are you looking at helping?01:28
nixternalI am guessing Kubuntu because you are in kde-docs as well :)01:28
PhreeStyle-homewell, i thought about it, but I run gnome01:29
nixternalKubuntu docs are pretty much complete for Gutsy right now01:29
nixternalahh, you will want to talk with mdke when he is around (he is in the UK), or Phil Bull who seems to be away right now...have you emailed the docs list expressing your interest?01:30
PhreeStyle-homewell i did about a month ago, then a bunch of stuff fell in my lap I couldn't do anything until now01:30
nixternalahh, that is always fun :)01:30
nixternalget in contact with Phil and check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Tasks01:31
PhreeStyle-homeI removed myself from the mailing list because I knew I wasn't going to be able to do anything for a while01:31
PhreeStyle-homeso should I rejoin and start over saying hello?01:31
nixternalprobably would be best...express your interest in helping the gnome side as well01:32
PhreeStyle-homeok I just joined the mailing list again...thanks for the advice01:34
nixternalno problem..and welcome! hopefully they can get you rolling with some stuff...it could start to get slow seeing as we are only 2 weeks away from our freeze for Gutsy01:35
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LaserJockmdke: gone already?01:44
nixternalprobably close to it01:46
nixternalLaserJock: what is up with the packaging guide? are you going to be working on it? need a little help with it? iirc you had someone who was going to work on it01:46
LaserJocknixternal: ah, but you're here :-)01:46
nixternalnot anymore...I just made like a LongPointyStick and poked my way out!01:47
LaserJockI've been trying to give it away01:47
=== nixternal definitely pokes his way out now
LaserJocknot sure if it's gonna stick01:47
LaserJocknixternal: I was actually gonna ask you about KDE401:47
nixternaloh, whew :)01:47
LaserJockI wondered how easy it is to test KDE4 now on Feisty and Gutsy01:48
nixternalfeisty: we have Beta 1 packages in Riddell's repo at kubuntu.org, Gutsy has Beta 1 in universe and I am currently working on Beta 2 packages (keep that on the downl low)01:49
nixternalof course, you can always check it out from the anon kde svn repo and build it yourself01:49
LaserJockbut does it run?01:49
nixternaloh ya01:49
LaserJockI know I can get packages, but it seemed kinda involved to get things going01:49
nixternalI am starting to switch over to it so I can start working out more kinks01:50
nixternalI am doing 50/50 KDE 3 and KDE 4 now01:50
LaserJockscary :-)01:50
LaserJockI wonder what will happen when gnome goes to 301:50
nixternalit can be...it doesn't crash majorly for me yet01:51
nixternaldunno, but I can't wait to see what gnome does01:51
LaserJockI think it'll be a key to the endless gnome vs. kde struggle01:52
LaserJockKDE's setting the bar01:52
nixternalthere will always be that struggle though I think...I enjoy the whole kde vs. gnome thing, because it feels to me that each project strives to be the best01:53
PhreeStyle-homeyea, competition is good for progress01:54
nixternala lot of people are for 1 desktop environment, which I find flat out stupid because it kills competition and eventually leads to a Microsoft type feeling01:54
LaserJockI'm for 1 desktop ideally01:54
LaserJockbut realistically it just doesn't seem to happen01:55
LaserJockI'm sick of duplicate projects01:55
nixternalit would be impossible...imagine the amount of loss due to something like that...die hard gnome people wouldn't switch if it was kde only, and kde people wouldn't switch if it was gnome only01:55
LaserJockand I hate how difficult it is to develop an app that anybody could use01:55
LaserJockyeah, I'd like to take the best of both worlds01:56
LaserJockbut it would just end up being *my* view of it01:56
LaserJockI guess anyway01:56
nixternalit would be like saying, we only need 1 linux distro...can't afford to get rid of the competition within the free software community01:56
LaserJockI think we need 1 linux distro too ;-)01:56
LaserJockI just can't stand the wasted effort01:57
LaserJockwe have a whole lot of crappy software01:58
LaserJockrather than focusing on getting good ones01:58
nixternalimagine one distro with 2 million developers..it would never work...it would be nothing but power struggles as well01:58
LaserJock2 million developers?01:58
nixternalwell, with all of the projects/distros out there, there are well over 2 million developers spread around the world01:59
LaserJocknot distros01:59
LaserJockmaybe all FLOSS01:59
LaserJockI'm all for competition02:01
LaserJockbut I'd like to see competition between a few good choices02:01
nixternalwell then how could you be for 1 distro and 1 desktop environment then?02:01
LaserJockcompetition with a dominate distro/DE works02:01
nixternalif you think about it, there is competition between the few good choices..there may be thousands of distros, but have 6 users doesn't count :)02:02
LaserJockbut distro and DE are so fundamental that it really starts effecting things02:02
LaserJockI'd love to see all distros move to one package format02:02
LaserJockone DE02:03
LaserJockand there only be 2-3 main distros02:03
nixternalanother thing with 1 distro or 1 de, is if I am working on that project, and I have a falling out or what not..then what am I to do?02:03
LaserJockthat'd cover 90%+ of people02:03
LaserJocknixternal: deal with it02:03
LaserJockI hate seeing people fork or ditch just because of personal problems02:03
LaserJockit's stupid02:03
nixternalnot always the easiest thing to do02:03
LaserJockdidn't say it was02:03
nixternalI agree with you there..but that is like saying no matter how crappy your working environment, deal with it02:04
LaserJockobviously at this point we don't have really crappy DEs02:04
nixternalactually, we have quite a few great de's02:04
LaserJockbut we are allowing them to continue make mistakes because they can say "don't like it, try something else"02:05
LaserJocksame with distros02:05
nixternaland each one fits a specific need to a user...it provides them that choice we like to brag about :)02:05
LaserJock"If you don't like Ubuntu, go use something else"02:05
LaserJockwe should be able to suit the vast majority of people02:05
nixternalthat is what I tell people...they have that choice, but with one de or one distro, that choice is gone02:05
LaserJockmy point is, why should they *have* to choose02:06
nixternalnow it would be, if you don't like our distro, then go use windows or mac02:06
LaserJockthere should be 1 clear choice02:06
nixternalbecause it is a freedom of course02:06
nixternalwould you like to walk into a store and have just 1 tv to choose from?02:06
LaserJockfreedom is highly overrated02:06
LaserJockwhat is freedom of choice if you get to choose between several bad choices02:07
LaserJockI'd take 1 choice if it was good02:07
nixternalwindows is good :)02:07
LaserJockyes, it can be02:07
LaserJockchoice isn't always what you want02:08
LaserJockif I want to install software and I have to figure out and choose between package formats02:08
LaserJockthat's no good02:08
nixternalfor me it is, because I actually get to choose what I want, and not what some developers wants me to want02:08
LaserJockyou get what the developer wants, always02:09
nixternaltrue, but I still have a choice between product a and product b, and in distros product 1 to 1,000,000 :)02:09
LaserJockI don't know, I just think choice is a crutch that a lot of devs have used to get away with crap02:10
LaserJockit's not bad, in and of itself02:10
nixternalI will admit that there have been way to many forks with distros of which most were unnecessary02:10
nixternalie. Mepis, PCLinuxOS, VA Linux, Stampede, Mint, Edubuntu, Xubuntu :)02:11
LaserJockI would really like to see 1 major DE02:11
LaserJockI can't see how the Gnome vs KDE thing is helping users02:12
nixternalI wouldn't for a few reasons...1 I don't like Gnome as it stands right now at all...it isn't for me, i can't use it, and there really aren't any features in it that I would want in KDE, and this goes vice-versa with many many gnome users when it comes to KDE02:12
LaserJockright, I'm not saying that Gnome or KDE, in their current form, should be that one02:13
nixternalI take that back...I do like Tomboy :)02:13
LaserJockI just think that it would be smarter for us to combine forces02:13
LaserJockand make one DE that works right02:13
LaserJocksame for email clients, while I'm at it02:14
nixternalas long as the client isn't Thundertird or Evilution :)02:14
PhreeStyle-homeThunderbird works pretty well for me02:14
PhreeStyle-homeEvolution sucks for me though02:14
nixternalactually, as it stands, Kontact/KMail either...now when we get the bugs worked out with that, then it will change02:14
nixternalI don't like anything Mozilla02:14
LaserJockThunderbird is the closet I've seen02:14
LaserJockbut I'm using gmail now02:15
PhreeStyle-homeyou don't like firefox?02:15
nixternalhaha, you seen the closet :)02:15
nixternalPhreeStyle-home: nope02:15
nixternalI prefer IE 7 over FF02:15
LaserJockI don't want to use FF either02:15
LaserJockbut it's the best I've got02:15
PhreeStyle-homewhat do you use? Konqueror?02:15
nixternalEpiphony is good02:15
nixternalKonqi yes02:15
LaserJockepiphany has some really troublesome "features"02:15
LaserJockotherwise it's ok02:16
LaserJockknoqi is just weird02:16
nixternalya, but isn't that going to change with the adaptation of webkit? I think I read that somewhere02:16
LaserJockit works ok though02:16
LaserJocknixternal: what is?02:16
nixternalya, konqi is weird from the beginning..but once you figure it out, it is great02:16
LaserJockoh, maybe02:16
LaserJockmy issues are with the UI02:16
LaserJockI couldn't really care less about the rendering engine02:17
nixternalI like the minimalistic ui of it02:17
LaserJockI don't know, I'm just afraid I'm coming to think that all FLOSS sucks02:17
LaserJockit's just community based so it's more fun02:18
nixternalI have been using it for over 10 years now, so I am more used to it than any other I guess02:18
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LaserJockI've been using Linux solid for 5 years now02:19
LaserJockand almost every week I swear I'm gonna go back to Windows02:19
nixternalsee, you can never go back now02:19
LaserJockthen I reboot Windows and go ewww02:19
LaserJockbut OS X ... that's a touch one02:19
LaserJockI really like OS X02:20
nixternalI have gone back to windows one time for 2 years..and that was only because I got into gaming for a bit and was sick of the idiots in debian and slackware at the time02:20
LaserJockI use it for taxes02:20
nixternalman, I have tried my hardest to get used to OS X and have never been successful02:20
LaserJockand sometimes for MS Office02:20
LaserJockI'm quite productive with OS X02:20
LaserJockit's like the best of all worlds02:20
nixternalMS Office I will admit is the greatest thing Microsoft has ever created, and there will never be an office suite that powerful02:21
LaserJockit's got the *nix thing going02:21
LaserJockbut it's not half-bakes like Linux :-)02:21
PhreeStyle-homeyea they need to make a DE like osx02:21
LaserJockwell, it's not really the DE I like02:21
nixternalheh, first thing I did with my OS X install I had for a few months was install KDE on it02:21
nixternalI can't stand the OS X DE at all02:21
LaserJockit just work, never crashes02:21
nixternalI will definitely give you that02:22
LaserJockit looks professional02:22
LaserJockhas lots of professional software02:22
PhreeStyle-homethat's my problem with KDE...applications only open half the time02:22
LaserJockit's like Linux, but it works02:22
nixternalI have never had any major issues with Linux, until I started messing with Ubuntu development releases02:22
LaserJockI can just *use* OS X, I don't have to fight with it02:22
LaserJockbah, I've had lots of problems with Linux02:23
nixternalI remember running Debian Sid and Slackware development releases and never had any major issues02:23
LaserJockthey went and screwed around with my Feisty in the last few days :(02:23
LaserJocknow I can't logout02:23
LaserJockI have to Ctrl-Backspace and relogin, then logout/hibernate02:23
PhreeStyle-homeI had a problem with something like that recently...anytime i would log out or shut down or restart, the machine would just freeze02:24
LaserJockeverything works fine02:24
LaserJockit just stays on the logout screen02:24
PhreeStyle-homei filed a bug, but didn't hear anything about it02:24
LaserJockand I can't get it to go away02:24
LaserJockbut that's my thing02:24
LaserJockwhy should I have to file a bug02:24
PhreeStyle-homesee, i can't even do that...if I hit Ctrl+Backspace it freezes too02:24
LaserJockthis is a stable release for goodness sakes02:24
PhreeStyle-homewell im running Gusty, so I understand stuff happens02:25
LaserJockand at work our linux boxes are getting hacked into more often than Windows and OS X02:25
PhreeStyle-homea stable release with that problem is bad news02:25
LaserJockI'm starting to wonder if Linux is really any good outside the community and openness02:25
PhreeStyle-homewell, at my work, i run Dapper with a jabber, apache server02:26
PhreeStyle-homeI've never had a problem with it once I got it running02:26
PhreeStyle-homeit's been running 6 months solid...I almost never have to touch it02:26
nixternalyou know, every place I have ever worked, we never had a server hacked, whether it was windows, linux, hp-ux, solaris...02:26
LaserJockwe have probably at least 1/year in my department02:27
LaserJockalways linux02:27
LaserJockthe uni IT guys think Linux is a joke for security02:27
nixternalsounds like the sys admin isn't doing his/her job02:27
LaserJockwe don't have sys admins02:27
PhreeStyle-homethe funny thing is the Dapper server is public facing and has less problems than the internal Windows servers02:27
LaserJockI'm constantly having to fix my Feisty laptop02:29
PhreeStyle-homeyea, they say that the only reason a linux server gets hacked is because it wasn't locked down right02:29
LaserJockthe problem is that nobody seems to lock them down right02:29
PhreeStyle-homewell, I admit they don't really give you a how-to on securing your box for every situation. I've found quite a few scripts that do wonders for security02:30
LaserJockanyway, I'm just burned-out and venting02:30
LaserJockI didn't mean to take over the channel02:30
PhreeStyle-homemy new favorite program DenyHosts for SSH...it's great02:30
PhreeStyle-homeI had no idea how many IP addresses were trying to brute force my ssh server until I installed that02:31
LaserJockwell, my department has static IPs, no firewall, and in one of the labs all the root passwords are the same :-)02:31
FlannelPhreeStyle-home: I just changed my port, that solved it02:31
nixternalLaserJock: you sound exactly how I did in 2000...I mean dead on exact..that was the reason I took a break before02:31
PhreeStyle-homewell, i did that once, but there are scanners that do multiple ports looking for SSH02:32
LaserJocknothing is more dangerous than Linux in the hands of somebody who doesn't know how to secure it02:32
PhreeStyle-homevery true02:32
PhreeStyle-homethough it's not too hard now...much easier than it used to be...now, all I have to do is install firestarter and denyhosts and I'm good to go02:33
LaserJockwe just have students that discover the joys of ssh02:34
LaserJockthen leave their computer open to the world02:34
PhreeStyle-homeI've even had to use firestarter as the corporate firewall when our cisco firewall crapped the bed and it seemed to work better than the cisco box02:34
LaserJockso the can login from home02:34
PhreeStyle-homeyea thats bad02:34
LaserJockand there isn't any computing education at all02:35
LaserJockso people just get hacked, and then learn02:35
LaserJockyou hope that it doesn't spread too far02:35
PhreeStyle-homeeww...you guys should really firewall ssh from the outside02:35
LaserJockwell, the line from IT is "meh, it happens, format and reinstall"02:36
PhreeStyle-homefirewall in general really02:36
PhreeStyle-homeI guess that's the beauty of it...if it were a windows machine you'd spend a better part of the day putting it back online02:37
LaserJockI still wish we had a DE that worked right :-)02:38
LaserJockbut they are pretty good, admittedly02:38
LaserJockif they just weren't so buggy02:39
PhreeStyle-homeyea me too....for now, gnome is my choice...for my needs...but really I think they all have a long way to go before they are considered workplace-ready02:39
LaserJockI wish it were home-ready02:40
LaserJockit's great for my work02:40
PhreeStyle-homea home user can get over the quirks, but not a business user02:40
LaserJockheh, I'm the total opposite :-)02:40
LaserJockat work I can mess around with it and make sure things work02:40
LaserJockat home it's not just me using the computer, I gotta make sure it works02:41
LaserJocklike I lost printing the other day02:41
LaserJockthat did not make the wife happy02:41
PhreeStyle-homelol, that sucks02:41
LaserJocknow I gotta wait for somebody to fix it02:41
LaserJockwell, I gotta file a bug, wait a few months, then maybe somebody will mark it invalid because it's too old ;-)02:42
PhreeStyle-homeadmittedly, work and home things are buggy...very bugg7y02:42
PhreeStyle-homelol, i know02:42
PhreeStyle-homeI don't think any of the 20 or so bugs I've submitted to any of the projects have actually gone anywhere02:42
LaserJockhmm, I wonder how many bugs I've reported02:43
LaserJock55 it seems02:44
PhreeStyle-homelol, that's crazy02:44
PhreeStyle-homei can totally see that though02:44
LaserJockwell, most of the bugs are packaging process bugs02:44
LaserJockrequesting syncs and stuff02:44
PhreeStyle-homeand even though there are alot of bugs i like to think that one day they will get better02:45
LaserJockway to be positive :-)02:45
PhreeStyle-homei try :)02:45
LaserJockstay positive, it keeps you healthy02:46
PhreeStyle-homevery true02:47
nixternalya, less hairloss or gray hair :)02:48
PhreeStyle-homeand i dont need anymore of either one02:51
LaserJockyeah, I've lost so much hair since starting Ubuntu development :/02:52
PhreeStyle-homewhat do you develop?02:53
LaserJockI'm a Core Developer, I mostly work on Edubuntu now02:53
nixternaland I can attest to his hairloss ;p02:53
nixternalalthough, I am losing mine now02:53
LaserJockI'm also a doc team member02:53
LaserJockamongst some other things that I need to get rid of02:54
nixternalhe is the trinity, that is what he is02:54
PhreeStyle-homewell, I've been looking to learn how to develop in linux...i only do c# on windows right now, but I want to get into in Ubuntu now too02:54
nixternalUbuntu uses that c# garbage :)02:54
=== nixternal shouldn't talk, KDE is using it now
LaserJocknixternal: I'm only a  member of the trinity, not the whole thing ;-)02:55
PhreeStyle-homewow, didn't know that02:55
LaserJockwe have lots of C# really02:55
nixternalPhreeStyle-home: Mono is imbread within Gnome, and it is in Strigi for KDE02:55
LaserJockfspot, tomboy, banshee02:55
PhreeStyle-homewhat is the core written in, C?02:55
nixternalfor gnome yes02:55
LaserJockC/C++ python perl02:56
LaserJockthat covers most of it I think02:56
LaserJockruby's getting pretty popular too02:56
PhreeStyle-homewow...I learned the basic python language, but gui programming for it is quite fuzzy02:56
LaserJockespecially in KDE it seems to me02:56
PhreeStyle-homelike i don't know which one to choose...and I hate the look of tk02:57
LaserJockfor the most part nobody cares what you write in as long as it works and it gets done02:57
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: pygtk is the way to go02:57
PhreeStyle-homewell i looked into wxPython, but its complicated02:57
PhreeStyle-homewhy pygtk?02:57
PhreeStyle-homehaven't heard alot about it other than not many use it (supposedly)02:58
LaserJockmost stuff GUI stuff written for Ubuntu is in pygtk02:59
PhreeStyle-homereally?...see I asked what ubuntu python stuff was written in, but no one replied to the post03:00
LaserJockmost people I know use pygtk or pyqt03:00
PhreeStyle-homeI'll have to look into that then03:00
PhreeStyle-homewhat's your opinion on java?03:02
=== nixternal likes java
LaserJockI don't have a problem with the language really03:03
LaserJockit just sucks because we can't put most Java apps in Ubuntu03:03
nixternalit is slow, just like python...but it is good for cross platform type of stuff03:03
nixternalya, the whole licensing thing sucks03:03
PhreeStyle-homeuntil they finish open sourceing it right?03:03
LaserJockso I think it's kinda misleading to claim an app is open source if it's written in Java :-)03:04
PhreeStyle-homewell, i guess it's open source, just not open source written in an open language03:04
LaserJockbut yeah, I think when they finish open sourceing it there will be a big explosion of Java apps03:04
PhreeStyle-homethe explosion is already starting03:05
PhreeStyle-homeI see java apps for everything03:05
LaserJockI just never got into it because I always saw it as a useful thing03:05
LaserJockI wasn't doing web or application development03:05
LaserJockyes, I see java apps everywhere03:05
LaserJockbut not installed by default03:06
LaserJockor easy to get at03:06
PhreeStyle-homehow long you think it will take before it's open sourced?03:06
nixternalsupposedly by the end of this year is what I heard..but take that with a grain of salt03:06
PhreeStyle-homeyea, that seems a bit soon03:06
LaserJockI suppose it's a lot of work03:07
LaserJockI'm not sure why exactly03:07
PhreeStyle-homei would think so...a language like that generic enough to run on so many platforms...gotta be alot of cide03:07
nixternalya, if you want to open source it with the GPL, just apply the language...but they said something about some of the infrastructure they want to not make open source or some garbage03:07
LaserJockyeah, but why would they have to rewrite it?03:08
LaserJockjust release the code :-)03:08
PhreeStyle-homewell, i think they have to go through it all and make sure they are not giving out any trade secrets or something03:08
LaserJockI imagine the delay is them getting out all the stuff that's either patent infringement/illegal or they don't want to open source parts of it03:08
LaserJockoh well, it'll come03:09
LaserJockEdubuntu will jump on it for sure when it does03:09
PhreeStyle-homeits by far one of the most taught languages now from what I've seen03:10
PhreeStyle-homebetween it and C#03:10
LaserJockI wouldn't know too much03:10
PhreeStyle-homeit's almost impossible to get a C/C++ class03:10
PhreeStyle-homeI tried finding one and couldn't03:10
LaserJockI know in my field Java is popular because it's like the non-programmer language03:11
PhreeStyle-homeat least one from a place with a reputation03:11
LaserJockalthough my boss will only write in Fortran and C03:11
PhreeStyle-homeyea i wasn't around for fortran :)03:11
PhreeStyle-homewhen it was popular...i missed that bus03:12
LaserJocklots of people write Fortran 77 all the time03:12
LaserJockdepends on the field03:12
LaserJockin the sciences it's still very dominante03:12
PhreeStyle-homedidn't know that...i figured it was dying since I haven't heard much from it03:13
LaserJocknah, we're just not "real" programmers ;-)03:13
LaserJockNASA uses a lot of fortran, for instance03:13
LaserJockand the weather people03:13
PhreeStyle-homeNASA uses alot of everything03:13
LaserJockany time you need serious number crunching03:14
PhreeStyle-homefor every language, is see "NASA uses it"03:14
LaserJockFortan still beats C03:14
LaserJockpython is creeping in though03:14
PhreeStyle-homeI think my boss did Fortran back in the day03:15
PhreeStyle-homepython is kinda slow though from what I hear...along side java03:15
LaserJockwell, the key is you do all the speed-sensitive stuff in fortran and glue it all together with python03:15
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LaserJockthere are really good python libraries for science written mostly in Fortran03:16
nixternalI am hopefully going to take some more fortran classes next semester03:17
nixternalfortran and c++ for scientist03:17
LaserJockthere's not a ton to it03:17
PhreeStyle-homewell, my thought for writting my first linux app was to make a front end for mounting cifs shares03:17
LaserJockjust use lots of GOTO statements ;-)03:17
nixternalhaha right03:17
nixternalI learned Fortran in high school many years ago03:17
LaserJockI'm learning C++ for a gnome app03:18
LaserJockbut I'm really not a programmer03:19
LaserJockI'm really realizing that03:19
nixternalhehe, I feel you there03:19
PhreeStyle-homeyou're a core dev though, right? how are you not a programmer?03:19
LaserJockI can write some code, and it's textbook03:19
LaserJockthen I get somebody like sbalneav and he hacks it apart03:20
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: why would I need to be?03:20
LaserJockI'm a chemist03:20
LaserJockI can barely make a shell script compared to a real programmer03:20
PhreeStyle-homeoh...yea I know nothing about chemistry...slept through that day in science class03:20
LaserJockbut being an Ubuntu developer has gotten me more into application development03:21
PhreeStyle-homewell if you're a Ubuntu dev, what do you do exactly?03:22
LaserJockI package stuff, fix bugs, write documentation, whatever needs to be done03:22
LaserJocka lot of it has been community development too, training people03:23
nixternalheh, you do way more than that... ie. blueprints, gsoc mentor...those ring a bell?03:23
LaserJockwell, I do what I can03:23
nixternaland then some03:23
LaserJocknone of it's that special03:23
nixternalI do nothing but bother people, and somehow I made my membership03:23
PhreeStyle-homeI wanna learn how to fix bugs eventually because I find them all the time and I feel like posting them doesn't do any good03:24
nixternalI will never understand that :)03:24
LaserJockyou do a lot nixternal03:24
LaserJockI wouldn't say bother people really03:24
LaserJocksometimes quite enthusiastic03:24
LaserJockbut not a bother ;-)03:24
nixternalI don't do as much as I would like03:24
nixternalhowever, it seems I have been tasked with the Edubuntu KDE stuff now03:25
LaserJockyep, mwuahaha03:25
nixternalwas that you or ogra's idea?03:25
LaserJockRiddell's I think03:25
nixternalhrmm, he pointed the finger at you two...I see how it is :)03:25
LaserJockmaybe it was kinda fuzzy03:25
LaserJockstrength in numbers03:26
nixternalI told Anne Marie from KDE Edu about Edubuntu doing that, and once she is done with her holiday, don't be surprised if she shows up03:26
LaserJockshe's great03:26
nixternalya, she was whicked excited03:26
LaserJockshe didn't even kill me about gallium03:26
nixternalheck ya she is..you want to talk about someone who does it all03:26
nixternalI met her through KOffice 2..and then she is like all KDE Edu, and she does coding and documentation03:27
LaserJockI think KDE Edu would be the one area of KDE that might make me jump sides ;-)03:27
nixternalman, I am literally at a roadblock right now with these beta 2 packages03:27
PhreeStyle-homehow did you guys get started coding and fixing bugs...did you start by writing documentation, or what?03:27
nixternalheh, I tried to get my daughter to jump sides and she wasn't up for it just yet03:27
nixternalPhreeStyle-home: actually that is how I started in 1995...I wrote a couple of docs for the linux documentation project03:28
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: I started working on Ubuntu because a chemistry app I wanted to use had a bit of a bug03:28
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: I hopped online to see if I could get it fixed, and got sucked into the drug that is Ubuntu instead03:28
nixternalI was using slackware at the time because one of the IT people on the military base I was stationed at was a slackdev, so he got me into that project..then I did more coding than documentation, but in 98, I gave up coding fully for networking and hardware03:29
nixternalonly the past year have I gotten interested in it again...and now I am trying to knock the rust off03:29
nixternalya, I was sucked in to Ubuntu big time by Riddell, Hobbsee and imbrandon03:30
PhreeStyle-homeso how do you get the source code, modify it, test and package it into a patch03:30
LaserJockI think we're about it for "techie"/dev guys in the doc team though, except sbalneav I guess03:30
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: well, that's a good question03:30
nixternalI think burger could dev if he wanted to...he obviously knows a lot about the dev side03:30
LaserJockhe's a marketing guy03:31
LaserJockthey don't count03:31
nixternalso am I03:31
nixternaloh, now you are in trouble!03:31
nixternalbut I don't do the Ubuntu marketing stuff anymore..it reminds me to much of a cest pool03:31
nixternalI think Ubuntu may have been the reason that I didn't get the Red Hat job03:32
LaserJockI've thought of moving to North Carolina03:33
PhreeStyle-homei gre up there03:33
LaserJockI wonder if I could get a job a RH03:33
LaserJockI just don't know that they'd take it well if I used Ubuntu at work03:33
nixternalLaserJock: they won't let you use Ubuntu at work03:34
LaserJockbut actually I don't think I'd like to work for a computer company03:34
nixternalyou have to use their product...and you know me, I am not all about using what you want me too :)03:34
LaserJockI think maybe I'll just stick to Chemistry03:34
LaserJockyep, that's you, gotta be a rebel03:35
PhreeStyle-homehey LaserJock, you know a good link to the whole coding, testing and patching stuff?03:35
nixternaloh I bet he does :)03:36
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: well, since you asked, you may be interested in the Ubuntu Pakcaging Guide03:36
nixternalI knew it was coming03:36
LaserJockwell, duh03:36
PhreeStyle-homeis there some joke about the packaging guide or something03:36
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: what are you running right now?03:36
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: I wrote it03:36
nixternalPhreeStyle-home: I also recommend the Debian Maintainer's Guide, the Debian Developers Handbook, and Debian Policy to go along with it03:36
PhreeStyle-homeUbuntu Gusty03:36
nixternalI have printed them all out into a neat little binder03:36
PhreeStyle-homeyou write it...then it must be good :)03:37
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: open up the Gnome help03:37
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: far from it, I'm sure you could improve it03:37
LaserJockhmm, let me think03:37
PhreeStyle-homewhat do I look for in the help03:37
LaserJockactually do dpkg -l | grep packaging-guide03:38
LaserJockin a terminal first03:38
nixternaldamn, my granny is in the hospital again03:38
LaserJockI can't remember if it's installed by default or not, I think maybe not03:38
LaserJocknixternal: yeah? not good?03:38
PhreeStyle-homedpkg didnt return anything03:38
nixternaldunno...my mom's sister is great at exagerating things..so my mom and dad just left for Michigan03:39
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: ok, install it first then03:39
nixternalmy granny is 80 something, wears oxygen, and drives a 2005 mustang gt...you knock her down, but she always gets right back up03:39
nixternalshe is a crazy polish woman03:39
PhreeStyle-homelol, gnome help crashed03:40
nixternalhaha, I think that is a known bug right now actually03:40
nixternalat least I have heard others say the same thing recently03:40
PhreeStyle-homewell i installed it, and did a search for packaging guide and didn't return anythinfg03:41
PhreeStyle-homei found a version of it online03:46
LaserJockoh sorry, was afk for a sec03:46
nixternalhow does mcd's sound for dinner? :)03:47
PhreeStyle-homeunhealthy...i can hear your kidneys screaming from here03:47
nixternalI have no strength man03:47
LaserJockor at least Wendy's03:47
nixternalI have been switching back and forth from the vegetarian diet, and I just can't do it03:47
nixternalman, I love mcd's cheeseburgers and fries03:47
LaserJockI can't do vegetarian yet03:48
PhreeStyle-homeme too but its just so bad for you03:48
LaserJockI'm too cheap03:48
PhreeStyle-homewhat's worse is they are building a new mcd's down the street from me03:48
LaserJockTaco Bell?03:48
nixternalLaserJock: I ended up growing most of mine...but food wise, money is no object really...I really wanted to try it, but meat yells at me everytime I am near03:48
nixternalI snuck in toxic hell yesterday for lunch w/o my gf finding out03:49
nixternalman, she is going to hate me for this...03:49
nixternalmy dad, the other night he is like, you feel like going out for a steak?03:49
nixternalI said no, and he called me names :(03:50
LaserJocklast night I had a big burger and some ribs and part of another burger03:50
LaserJockand 2 loads of fries03:50
LaserJockI could stand to lose some weight03:50
nixternalso could I03:50
LaserJockI'm just too cheap03:51
LaserJockI've got no money for healthy food03:51
nixternalI did the whole insane amount of carbs and protien diet trying to get up to 235 lbs solid03:51
nixternalI am at 235, but I am not solid03:51
LaserJockI'm on the "OMG I hope I'm not diabetic" diet ;-)03:51
nixternalI still go to the gym and lift heavy every morning, but still...I wanted to cut a little fat, and the vegies were perfect03:51
nixternalhahaha, so is my whole family03:52
nixternalheck, my mom is diabetic, and you would never know03:52
LaserJockpretty much my whole family is03:52
LaserJockI'm roughly ~250 lbs and I'm about the lightest guy in my family03:52
nixternali figure, if I am going to die, I might as well be happy with a 30oz rare steak sticking out the side of my face03:52
nixternalOK, better stop, because I know there are vegans and vegetarians that can be offended by that03:53
nixternalmy gf included03:53
LaserJocks/steak/bacon cheeseburger/03:53
LaserJockI dislike steak03:53
LaserJockbut hamburger I can't live without03:54
nixternalOK, being a vegetarian takes sushi off the menu as well..and man that is my favorite03:54
LaserJock... yuck03:54
nixternalomg...my mouth is watering03:54
nixternaltomorrow, sushi and sapporo03:55
nixternala lil hot saki for a treat :)03:55
LaserJockburger, potato, cheese and bread03:55
LaserJockthat's what I live on03:55
nixternalI have been good man...I went 2 months eating fairly healthy03:55
nixternalI have gotten on a huge real fruit smoothing trip here lately as well03:55
nixternalI have spent like $100 just to make all natural smoothies this month03:56
nixternalthat's insane03:56
LaserJockyeah, it is03:56
LaserJockI'm trying a water diet ;-)03:56
nixternalI can't drink water..so I have substitued it with green tea03:56
LaserJockget off the soda and drink more water03:57
nixternalI don't drink soda03:57
nixternaland i only drink beer on occassion03:57
nixternaldrink tequila on occassion as well :)03:57
LaserJockmy dad worked for the guy that owned the Pespi distributor in our state03:57
LaserJockI grew up on cases and cases of free Pepsi03:57
nixternalheh, same here..we it was free for me, mom and dad bought it by the boatload03:57
LaserJockbut my teeth are rotting out of my head03:58
nixternalI was always a Dr. Pepper type of guy03:58
LaserJockwow, we are a positive bunch tonight :-)03:58
nixternalwho needs teeth? you seen how nice false teeth are? heck, when you want to do bad things, rip em out and go for it :p03:58
nixternaldefinitely a positive bunch tonight...thank god mdke is sleeping :)03:59
LaserJocksometimes it's nice to be on US time zones03:59
nixternalI can already picture his first comment when he wakes up about scrollback :)03:59
nixternalOK, I need food :) bbiab04:01
LaserJockI already had my pizza04:01
PhreeStyle-homeoh, i forgot to ask...i sent a hello into the mailing list. Do I have to wait for someone in particular to answer?04:02
LaserJockI don't think so04:02
LaserJockwelcome to Ubuntu Doc Team :-)04:02
PhreeStyle-homelol, thanks04:02
PhreeStyle-homeim just hoping my emails are getting through04:03
LaserJockPhreeStyle-home: what's the name?04:03
PhreeStyle-homeRoss Peoples <ubuntu.ross.peoples@gmail.com> with the subject of Hello...again04:03
LaserJockyes, I think it did come through04:04
PhreeStyle-homeoh, good04:04
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mptmdke, you're famous07:41
mptin page 43 of Linux Format07:41
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tonyyarussoMailman is yelling at me from sending from different accounts :S08:49
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mdkempt: what's it about?11:01
mptmdke, a brief blurb on "Notable figures in the Ubuntu community" or something11:08
mdkempt: :)11:08
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mpt- someone looking for an open source software project that they can produce a tutorial for01:02
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oldmanstanhey j1mc i got a question, links like <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:office">08:36
oldmanstanhow do i get those to point to the xubuntu docs, not the ubuntu ones08:37
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