[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: strange thing is that there is no version number..... hum dch -n doesn't like ~ caracter, looks like :)
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: once again sorry for the issue
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[04:23] <jds663> was xgl mandatory with the last batch of updates?? my system is unusable.. 100% cpu load.. running xgl
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[05:44] <nixternal> howdy
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[07:16] <Hobbsee> yay, patches.
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[07:49] <mike_moose> Hello.
[07:52] <Hobbsee> hiya
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[07:52] <Hobbsee> darn, tonio is not here
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[08:16] <Hobbsee> too many bugs...
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[09:45] <blekos> hi, i've upgraded from feisty but cannot find strigi...
[09:46] <Lure> blekos: go to panel, right click, add applet to panel
[09:47] <Lure> blekos: or strigi:/ in konqueror
[09:48] <blekos> i went to the adept manager and show that files with the name strigi were not installed
[09:49] <blekos> it is not available in the add applet
[09:50] <blekos> i'm just wondering if strigi was not installed, maybe there are other features that did not install
[09:50] <Jucato> perhaps you haven't fully upgraded to gutsy yet? also please check if the metapackage kubuntu-desktop is installed
[09:51] <blekos> kubuntu-desktop & kubuntu-default-settings are both installed
[09:52] <Jucato> hmm...
[09:54] <blekos> the other thing is that i don know how to use opensync,
[09:54] <blekos> i have a pda-mobile
[09:54] <blekos> but I cannot see any gui tool in Kontact
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[09:55] <Hobbsee> er, i'd guess that apt doesnt upgrade first....
[09:55] <Hobbsee> and so recommends dont get installed by default
[09:56] <blekos> so, when the final release is out everything will be installed?
[09:57] <Hobbsee> did you use a dist-upgrade, or the upgrade tool?
[09:57] <blekos> dist-upgrade
[09:57] <Hobbsee> hm.
[09:58] <Jucato> I dist-upgraded from feisty (command line system, no GUI) to gutsy on my desktop. didn't have a problem there
[09:58] <Jucato> but that was last week
[09:58] <Hobbsee> Jucato: wouldnt have done recommends, though
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Jucato: unless you upgraded apt first.
[09:59] <Jucato> yeah. but I mean everything got installed. including strigit
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[09:59] <Hobbsee> Jucato: interesting...
[09:59] <Jucato> didn't notice opensync though
[10:01] <blekos> apart from these too, everything *seems* to work fine
[10:01] <blekos> didn't have any msgs about restarting though
[10:02] <blekos> but as I can see adept-notifier is installed
[10:02] <Hobbsee> no, you wouldnt.  you used a dist-upgrade.
[10:02] <blekos> ok
[10:02] <blekos> any ideas about opensync?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> you didnt get an update-notifier from adept prompt to reboot, because you didnt use adept to dist-upgrade.
[10:02] <Hobbsee> nope, i only have 1 bluetooth device.
[10:04] <blekos> how about the firefox plugin where do i find it?
[10:06] <Hobbsee> in the repository somewhere
[10:06] <Hobbsee> should be a part of ubufox, i'd expect
[10:19] <blekos> final question, please bare with me, i wen to system settings->monitor & display click on "administration mode" and ...
[10:19] <blekos> i was just let in, didnt ask for pwssd....
[10:19] <blekos> *psswd
[10:21] <Jucato> if you have used kdesu(do) earlier to do some administrative stuff, it remembers the password for a few minutes
[10:21] <Jucato> just like sudo in the command line
[10:22] <Jucato> see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5/Kubuntu#head-5ab46eafbb5cb096dd81d996d6e568651085469d
[10:25] <blekos> i guess it has to do with using the adept-manager where i was prompet for my psswd
[10:25] <blekos> i'll wait for 15min and see what happenes
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[02:46] <Jucato> nixternal: since you're a bit awake, could you check if Input Actions is completely Empty or I'm just fscked up?
[02:47] <nixternal> guide me master
[02:47] <Jucato> haha
[02:47] <Jucato> System Settings -> Accessibility
[02:47] <Jucato> or KControl -> Regional & Accessbility :)
[02:47] <Jucato> which could explain why pressing PrintScreen doesn't launch KSnapshot here...
[02:47] <nixternal> I have kde-konqbrowser.desktop and kde-ksnapshot.desktop
[02:48] <Jucato> er.. hm...
[02:48] <Jucato> ok I'm fscked up then hahah :)
[02:48] <nixternal> well...I have been dist-upgrading since dapper
[02:48] <nixternal> if you installed fresh, you might have different results
[02:48] <Jucato> I guess I kinda messed up when I copied over my .kde from feisty to gutsy hehehe
[02:49] <Jucato> hm... or maybe not :/
[02:49] <Jucato> so what are you doing up so early on a Sunday morn? :)
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[02:50] <nixternal> I crashed kind of early last night
[02:50] <Jucato> on a Saturday night? you're weird! :P
[02:50] <nixternal> yup, I know
[02:58] <Jucato> anyway, enjoy your Sunday. I'll just poke around tomorrow :)
[02:58] <nixternal> why thank you
[03:20] <nixternal> " I am not really that happy with Kubuntu, because I've just learned that they have only 2 runlevels by default."
[03:21] <nixternal> ^^ that is from the recent behind kde interview with the GSoC people...am I missing something
[03:21] <Jucato> O.o
[03:21] <nixternal> he is referring to the 2 levels provided in grub I take it
[03:23] <nixternal> does anyone provide anything more init 1 and init 5?
[03:23] <nixternal> all he has to do is take it init 3 from kdm :)
[03:24] <nixternal> "What is KDE's killer app? Why?"
[03:24] <nixternal> Andrew Manson's answer is the best!
[03:25] <nixternal> "KDevelop! Why? Because I don't understand how to use it! It's just like the view of a cockpit in a plane, so many buttons and you don't have a clue what half of them do... but it looks pretty"
[03:26] <Jucato> lol
[03:26] <Jucato> it's nice to occasionally get "strange" answers hehehe
[03:27] <nixternal> all but 1 of the 4 screenshots for their desktop is Kubuntu \o/
[03:33] <Jucato> who says Kubuntu isn't loved by upstream? hehehe :P
[03:42] <milian> can anyone reproduce this: when I search in konqueror using the "websearch" next to the location bar (with google) it always prepends "locate " in front of my search strings
[03:42] <milian> (but searches on google)
[03:43] <milian> google is set as default search engine and locate is disabled though it still behaves that way...
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[03:43] <milian> and this is new with gutsy
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[03:45] <nixternal> works for me
[03:49] <milian> nixternal: try setting the separator to space instead of a colon
[03:49] <milian> it works for me as well with colons
[03:50] <nixternal> why would I do that?
[03:50] <milian> it's a setting in the short handle menu so why shouldn't it work there? ;-)
[03:51] <nixternal> are you talking using gg:
[03:51] <nixternal> gg: is for the location bar only
[03:51] <nixternal> not only, but made for it in particular
[03:51] <milian> wait a moment, I switch my language to english and describe what I mean
[03:52] <milian> Settings > Configure Konqueror > Web Shortcuts > Keyword Delimiter > Space
[03:53] <milian> than:
[03:53] <milian> Websearch (input field right to the location bar)
[03:53] <milian> select google and search for anything
[03:53] <milian> e.g. "foobar"
[03:53] <milian> it will search for "locate foobar"
[03:53] <milian> switch the keyword delimiter back to a colon and it works
[03:53] <nixternal> it is working with the space as well for me
[03:54] <milian> strange
[03:54] <milian> but thank you
[03:54] <nixternal> no prob
[03:54] <nixternal> hrmm, I might prefer the space over : now :)
[03:54] <milian> ;-)
[03:55] <nixternal> oh man, I just set my default to google...no more typing gg: or gg
[03:56] <milian> funny it works for me as well now
[03:56] <milian> but please _dont_ ask why
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[03:57] <milian> voodoo but ok ;-)
[04:15] <ryanakca> nixternal: Hmm. Does this pre-pre-draft (waay too many screenshots) documentation for Kontact + eGroupWare look good? http://groupware.kubuntu.co.uk/~ryan/eGroupWare-HOWTO.html
[04:16] <ryanakca> (aka, am I missing anything)
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=== Jucato is starting to hate doing user support
[04:22] <ryanakca> Jucato: hmm. ever thought of teaching a class?
[04:22] <ryanakca> Jucato: Mez and I are trying to revive the now long-dead classroom project
[04:22] <Jucato> oh that.. hm... sorry nope :(
[04:23] <ryanakca> hmmm
[04:23] <nixternal> ryanakca: looks good
[04:24] <Jucato> sorry ryanakca.. I sort of have a phobia of teaching in any real-time setting
[04:24] <ryanakca> Jucato: no worries :)
[04:24] <ryanakca> nixternal: okies
=== ryanakca mails nixternal his login info
=== Jucato wonders if it's him or kmail that's not working properly today..
[04:26] <manchicken> kmail hasn't been working properly for several days over here.
[04:26] <nixternal> ya, I can't even use it for email safely
[04:26] <Jucato> oh...
=== Jucato is glad he's on POP3 only...
[04:26] <nixternal> I am thinking about going back to Mutt
[04:27] <Jucato> the only kdepim app that I'm liking right now is akregator... kmail, korganizer, and right now, kaddressbook are all giving me headaches and heartaches...
[04:29] <manchicken> Nice.
[04:29] <manchicken> kpilot seems to be more stable than it was... e.g. not crashing after EVERY sync.
[04:29] <nixternal> I am POP3 also, only because I wanted to use Kontact/KMail and knew of the IMAP problems
[04:30] <Jucato> wished toma made mailody with pop3 support...
[04:30] <nixternal> hehe
[04:36] <ryanakca> hmm... imap problems? where?
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[04:37] <nixternal> kmail is plagued with them according to the bug reports
[04:37] <nixternal> out of all of the bug reports, only a few are pop3 or smtp related..the rest are imap
[04:38] <ryanakca> Heh
[04:38] <Jucato> isn't it because of imap kmail issues that toma started mailody?
=== ryanakca guesses he must have a lucky kmail
[04:38] <nixternal> I believe so
[04:38] <ryanakca> yeah
[04:38] <Jucato> oh well....
=== Jucato strangles kaddressbook in the meantime
[04:39] <ryanakca> kaddressbook is a pain
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[04:40] <Jucato> it' s only now that I realize it... having been forcing myself to use it for the whole day...
=== ryanakca thought it would be able to sync automatically from the eGroupWare server... but it only updates the local copy every couple of hours
[04:41] <ryanakca> And I haven't found any way to 'force' it... the sync button doesn't do anything...
[04:41] <Jucato> I'm glad I haven't had yet the misfortune of trying to sync anything... groupware or mobile device...
[04:42] <nixternal> so much negativity
[04:42] <nixternal> ARGH! stupid pasting crash!@::!
[04:42] <nixternal> :)
[04:42] <Jucato> heh :)
[04:42] <Jucato> and on a sunday for that matter
[04:43] <nixternal> it has been crashing since yesterday
[04:43] <nixternal> you can't paste anything into a kmails composer
[04:43] <Jucato> and it apparently hangs if you try to :)
[04:44] <Jucato> and crashed kontact. yay
[04:47] <ryanakca> yep
[04:47] <ryanakca> I can confirm
=== ryanakca pasted the HOWTO url into nixternal's login-info email-to-become-a-template... kaput
[04:48] <nixternal> muhahaha
[04:48] <Jucato> nice isn't it?
[04:48] <Jucato> you have 2 confirmations for your bug :P
[04:48] <Jucato> 2 unwitting, gullible victims
[04:49] <ryanakca> bug 130392
[04:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130392 in kdepim "kmail locks when pasting text into composer" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130392
[04:49] <ryanakca> been around for a couple days
[04:50] <Jucato> heh
[04:50] <Jucato> shows how much I don't compose mails :)
[04:50] <nixternal> shows how much I don't paste into composer I guess
[04:50] <nixternal> I just noticed it yesterday trying to reply to Jono
=== Jucato hasn't been part of that e-mail tradition... yet...
[04:50] <nixternal> fix released upstream as well
[04:50] <nixternal> nice
[04:51] <ryanakca> yep
[04:51] <Jucato> good..
[04:51] <Jucato> wonder if there will be a KDE 3.5.8...
[04:51] <nixternal> yes
[04:51] <milian> was about time
[04:52] <nixternal> 3.5.8 could very well be the last 3.x release :(
[04:52] <Jucato> I thought so too..
[04:52] <Jucato> aw... they still need to release bug fixes/patches :(
[04:52] <Jucato> specially for kdepim!!!
=== ryanakca wonders if there's an autosave-oops-sorry!-kmail-crashed copy of my email/draft
[04:53] <nixternal> wait a second..that upstream bug report for the paste crash was filed by me in June
[04:53] <ryanakca> guess not
[04:53] <Jucato> lol
=== Jucato foresees nixternal going into #kontact to poke people...
[04:53] <ryanakca> and looks like it's two different bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/130392/comments/2
[04:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130392 in kdepim "kmail locks when pasting text into composer" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[04:54] <nixternal> I am not poking them anymore
[04:54] <nixternal> I think it is 2 different bugs
[04:54] <ryanakca> It is
[04:54] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, I know it is 2 different bugs
[04:54] <Jucato> mine locked, then when I tried to close it, it crashed
=== ryanakca points at the comment, the guy clearly states two different bugs
[04:54] <nixternal> because now you can't paste anything
[04:54] <ryanakca> Jucato: crashed when I went to minimize
[04:55] <ryanakca> remove the upstream link from the lp bug?
[04:55] <nixternal> I would have to say yes...it is 2 different issues
[04:57] <nixternal> how do you remove an upstream bug?
[04:57] <Jucato> you can't
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hit the arrow, say tha tit's nto tracked upstream
[04:58] <Jucato> I think you have to ask them to close it for you
[04:58] <Hobbsee> no, you can close it yourself..
[04:58] <ryanakca> I dunno. Best thing from what I see is to set it 'invalid', and it doesn't point to any upstream bug.
[04:58] <nixternal> you know what...Fritz hijacked bug 130392
[04:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130392 in kdepim "kmail locks when pasting text into composer" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130392
[04:58] <nixternal> those are 2 different issues...I think the original issue was related to the upstream bug report I filed in June
[04:58] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: like so?
[04:59] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: yep tha's it
[04:59] <ryanakca> nixternal: hehe, we both removed it at the same time :)
[04:59] <nixternal> muhahah
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[05:10] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[05:10] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[05:11] <ryanakca> hmm. does this seem to be a good 'Disclaimer' to be sent in the login emails, and displayed at the login screen for the server? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36050/
[05:11] <ryanakca> s/LOG OFF IMMEDIATELY/DO NOT USE THIS SYSTEM/
[05:11] <bddebian> Heya gang
[05:11] <bddebian> Hi ryanakca, Jucato
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[05:30] <ryanakca> nixternal: sent :)
[05:31] <Hobbsee> oh, bugger.  i should have put out a meeting notice
[05:31] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee :)
[05:31] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato
[05:31] <Jucato> wait, it should be morning there now right? O.o
[05:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: yes please do put out a meeting notice
[05:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's about 1.30am, my clock tells me
[05:32] <Jucato> ouch..
[05:33] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: meeting? Kubuntu-Devel?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: yes
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[05:34] <ryanakca> cool
[05:34] <ryanakca> pitty it's too late to try to organize a time with eGroupWare's free/busy feature
[05:35] <Hobbsee> unsure of the point - it's mostly blocked on me
[05:36] <Hobbsee> probably...2200 tuesday, or so.
[05:37] <Hobbsee> or otherwise 1400 UTC...um....tuesday or thursday
[05:37] <Hobbsee> all of your good times are while i'm asleep
[05:38] <ScottK> So don't sleep.  Sleep is for the weak.
[05:38] <nixternal> ouch
[05:38] <Hobbsee> i get sick if i dont sleep.
[05:38] <nixternal> I guess I am weak...
[05:39] <nixternal> 00:00:50 [    ScottK]  I'm actually getting very close to passing out and going to bed for the night.
[05:39] <nixternal> that was 10.5 hours ago :)
[05:39] <nixternal> muhehehehe
[05:39] <ScottK> It was actually several hours after that I went to bed.
=== ScottK is weak in any case.
[05:39] <nixternal> but you said sleep is for the weak...are you...
[05:40] <nixternal> damn, beat me to it
[05:40] <nixternal> hrmm, I am finding interesting results on "would you prefer 1 desktop environment instead of the many there currently are?" and "would you prefer 1 linux distro compared to the many there are?"
[05:41] <nixternal> there are quite a few people that would prefer 1 DE and 1 distro...that is scary
[05:41] <Hobbsee> mmm...very scary
[05:41] <nixternal> 1 distro provides you with the following choice: Windows, Linux, Mac, BSD
[05:41] <ScottK> I'd prefer one too as long as it's exactly what I want.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> well, that's fine, as long as the distro is ubuntu, and the DE is kde.
[05:41] <nixternal> OK, I don't like this distro of Linux, so good-bye :)
[05:42] <nixternal> ScottK: see, and that is why 1 distro would never work..the same with 1 de
[05:42] <nixternal> Hobbsee: hahaha, pwnd!!!
[05:42] <ScottK> Of course.  Wanting is not the same as getting.
[05:42] <Jucato> it's hard to shake of people's old mentality of 1 DE/OS/Distro...
[05:42] <bddebian> Espeically us Windows users since it already has everything..
=== bddebian hides
[05:43] <nixternal> lol
[05:43] <Jucato> yes it has everything...
[05:43] <nixternal> boo
[05:43] <Jucato> including viruses.. right?
[05:43] <Jucato> unfortunately we can't include those :(
[05:43] <Jucato> ah cruel fate
[05:43] <nixternal> could you imagine all of the distro and de devs trying to come together on 1 project? the power struggles, my lord it would fail misserably
[05:44] <Hobbsee> nixternal: they seem to be on kde4
[05:44] <Jucato> fail miserably? it wouldn't even start :)
[05:44] <Hobbsee> well, multidistros
[05:44] <nixternal> interesting finding though,, people who I have asked, if it were 1 DE, the 2 top choices are 1) Xfce and 2) KDE
[05:44] <Jucato> aw poor GNOME...
[05:44] <nixternal> ya, which totally blew my mind
[05:45] <nixternal> I love the recent dose of reality, as a lot of darkside users were saying KDE reinvented the wheel, only to find out, d'oh the Gnu Project did :)
[05:45] <Jucato> and it didn't exactly reinvent the wheel...
[05:45] <Jucato> in all aspects...
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[05:46] <nixternal> well true, but it created something that was not needed...they had to do their power struggle thing about the whole non-free licensing issue
[05:46] <Jucato> besides, if not for the pressure created by the existence of GNOME (and Harmony), Trolltech might have not had released Qt under GPL sooner
[05:46] <nixternal> but Qt had released a GPL compatible license before there was even a beta test of gnome
[05:47] <Jucato> and without GNOME showing us how to do things wrong... where would KDE be?
=== Jucato evil maniacal laughter
[05:47] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[05:47] <nixternal> I just 2.5 months with gnome...and I have come to like just 1 feature
[05:47] <nixternal> tomboy
[05:47] <nixternal> s/just 2.5/just did 2.5/
[05:48] <Jucato> ah tomboy.. yes
[05:48] <Jucato> before strigi was, I also liked the deskbar applet
[05:49] <nixternal> for instance...setting up my 19" widescreen lcd and radeon video card meant I had to dpkg-reconfigure x, go in and manually edit xorg.conf...in Kubuntu, System Settings -> Display, grab the 1440x900 LCD, Use the r300 free driver, hit ok, and then ctrl+alt+backspace
[05:49] <nixternal> and this feature has been in KDE for years!
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[05:50] <Jucato> actually... well nvm :P
[05:50] <nixternal> hehe
[05:50] <nixternal> I need to setup strigi, it never installed itself by default
[05:50] <Jucato> hm.. someone was in here earlier (yesterday?) wondering about that too
[05:50] <Jucato> dist-upgrading to gutsy never installed strigi for him
[05:52] <nixternal> dist-upgrading doesn't install anything new from what I have noticed..it just updates what you have, and pulls in new deps if needed
[05:52] <nixternal> it doesn't remove anything either
[05:52] <nixternal> man, I have started a great discussion in the chicago lug irc channel about 1 de and 1 distro
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[05:54] <Jucato> dist-upgrade only removes if there's a conflict because of a new dependency iirc
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[07:13] <nixternal> ryanakca: my password is bogus
[07:31] <milian> KDE 4 beta 2 is not yet out, is it?
[07:32] <nixternal> nope
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[08:45] <ScottK> nixternal: Thanks for letting us know.  I'd suggest changing it now that you've let us know you picked "bogus" for a password.
[08:45] <nixternal> ScottK: hahaha, my password doesn't work silly
[08:46] <nixternal> that is funny though..I wonder how many people are like trying username: nixternal password: bogus
[08:46] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:46] <ScottK> But it was funnier my way.
[08:46] <nixternal> ya it was
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[09:42] <manchicken> Okay, so does anybody know what's going on with kmail?
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[10:04] <odla> will there be an official kickoff package in kubuntu?
[10:11] <Riddell> only if someone makes one
[10:13] <odla> i can't even find where to get the current source code
[10:13] <Riddell> getting the patch from suse's rpm is probably best
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[10:33] <manchicken> mhb: ping
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[10:37] <mhb> manchicken: wow
[10:37] <mhb> manchicken: you're good at guessing when people arrive :o)
[10:37] <DaSkreech> What did I miss?
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[10:38] <mhb> manchicken: what's up?
[10:38] <duccio> hi
[10:39] <duccio> Riddell: yesterday you told me about a task in startkde...do you remember?
[10:39] <mhb> DaSkreech: probably the same things as I have
[10:40] <Riddell> duccio: yes, i do
[10:40] <duccio> yes..today i read more about bash scripting
[10:40] <duccio> i've read...sorry
[10:41] <duccio> what kind of task do you need?
[10:41] <duccio> i don't remember well
[10:41] <manchicken> mhb: Having a hard time with Py-qt
[10:41] <manchicken> We need some KDE4 bindings, too.
[10:42] <mhb> manchicken: there will be some soon
[10:42] <manchicken> mhb: Got time to help me figure things out here?
[10:42] <mhb> manchicken: sure
[10:43] <Riddell> duccio: delete the splash screen cache if the wallpaper is newer
[10:43] <Riddell> duccio: so if $KDEHOME//share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/ is older than /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png
[10:44] <mhb> manchicken: private msg?
[10:44] <Riddell> duccio: and of course do that before ksplash is run
[10:44] <manchicken> Let me pasty the problem.  Sure, we can move it there if you want.
[10:45] <mhb> manchicken: well, I guess it would be better in private, so we don't pollute the other conversations in here
[10:48] <duccio> Riddell: so the task must delete the content of $KDEHOME//share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/ if this is older than /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png...is correct?
[10:48] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Is there a KDE art Chan?
[10:50] <kwwii> DaSkreech: #kde-artists ...if it is oxygen specific #oxygen
[10:50] <Riddell> duccio: yes, that's right
[10:50] <DaSkreech> kwwii: thanks
[10:50] <kwwii> np
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[11:31] <ryanakca> nixternal: hmm. sorry, I'll change it
[11:37] <ryanakca> nixternal: sent a new copy, should work, it's a copy-paste
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[11:53] <duccio> Riddell: I've done the task...how can I show you the script?
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[11:55] <SlimG> When will OOo be replaced by koffice?
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[12:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: You wanna take that? :)
[12:04] <duccio> Riddell: After that?
[12:08] <mhb> SlimG: when we compare OOo and koffice and find koffice good enough for our user base.
[12:09] <mhb> SlimG: trust me, we generally believe in koffice much more than in OOo. But we would probably lose a lot of users if we provided a tool that is not "good enough".
[12:10] <SlimG> mhb: What's not good enough yet with koffice?
[12:10] <DaSkreech> mhb: I think what he wants is the bullet list of what's not good enough
[12:11] <DaSkreech> See? :)
[12:11] <SlimG> :) hehe
[12:13] <mhb> SlimG: I haven't tested KOffice in a while, so I can't really tell. I think compatibility with Microsoft Office (and I'm not sure about the compatibility with OOo either) is still not as high as in OO.org
[12:13] <mhb> SlimG: if you think otherwise, you can try to convince the developers and if you have enough arguments, perhaps they'll include it!
[12:14] <mhb> SlimG: for the Kubuntu release after "Gutsy Gibbon", which is called "Hardy Heron"
[12:18] <SlimG> I'd really like to see koffice in hardy (really? Hardy Heron!? :D hehe) but I haven't done any formatcompatibility-between-office-suits tests, I'll investigate on known compatibility issues and test compatibility and get back to the kubuntu devs if things looks good for koffice
[12:19] <DaSkreech> Actually I think for some formats Koffice has hight ODT compatibilty than OO.o
[12:19] <DaSkreech> but the real blocker is compatibilty with .doc .ooxml etc
[12:19] <SlimG> does OOo support .ooxml ?
[12:20] <mhb> DaSkreech: to be honest, that compatibility is still a big blocker of Linux in general
[12:20] <mhb> DaSkreech: OOo sucks less at it, but sucks nonetheless
[12:20] <ryanakca> mhb: have you changed your password yet? ( ssh into groupware.kubuntu.co.uk )
[12:20] <mhb> ryanakca: not yet
[12:20] <DaSkreech> mhb: Yeah but if we got Koffice to suck less than OO.o could it replace OO.o ?
[12:20] <DaSkreech> That's the question
[12:20] <mhb> DaSkreech: of course
[12:21] <DaSkreech> SlimG: they are incorporating ooXML I don't think it will be in the 2.3 relelase maybe the one after
[12:21] <mhb> DaSkreech: if it sucks less or the same, we'll go for it
[12:23] <DaSkreech> mhb: Who would be the person who Oks that?
[12:24] <mhb> DaSkreech: the Kubuntu Council is that person
[12:24] <ryanakca> mhb: wouldn't it be Kubuntu members, and then if we can't pick, the council get's to vote?
[12:25] <mhb> ryanakca: well, I guess we'd discuss it at the meeting, so everyone says their opinion and the Council OKs or denies that
[12:26] <mhb> ryanakca: he asked about who should judge that, and that is the KC
[12:28] <ryanakca> hmm. yeah
[12:28] <ryanakca> I guess :)
[12:29] <DaSkreech> Ok
[12:29] <DaSkreech> So can I put a note on the agenda for the next meeting to look to getting Koffice as default and generate a list for what that would mean?
[12:29] <ScottK> Actually on recent OOO versions I've had very little trouble with MS Office file compatibility.
[12:30] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Right :) but the point is we want Koffice to have the same boast
[12:30] <ScottK> Sure, but until it does, please don't mess with it.
[12:30] <mhb> ScottK: yeah, it's getting better, but it's still not my-non-geek-dad ready :o)
[12:30] <ScottK> All my customers use MS Office, so file compatibility is essential.
[12:31] <DaSkreech> ScottK: it's not so much as to how many people use it
[12:31] <DaSkreech> It's how deep
[12:31] <DaSkreech>  if i have one person who uses MS Office cause they absolutlely NEED to
[12:31] <SlimG> maby a vote on the kubuntuforums: "OOo vs. koffice (in Kubuntu)" would give a clue on the current battlestatus between the office suits, then people might also comment on their likes and dislikes with both office suits
[12:31] <DaSkreech> that's an issue cause they have something they need to do in the line of work
[12:32] <DaSkreech> OO.o and Koffice should at least be able to display it even if they can't generate it
[12:32] <DaSkreech> SlimG: Start it up man :)
[12:32] <mhb> I agree with SlimG, let's ask the users first and if it's good enough for a large group let's bother the devs