[01:10] <LaserJock> good afternoon Edubunters!
[01:11] <boyam> Hi LaserJock :)
[01:13] <LaserJock> hi boyam
[01:38] <lns> Hey LaserJock
[01:40] <LaserJock> hi lns
[03:05] <eddiestone> Hello, does anybody knows a software that helps teachers on their activities?
[03:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> what actiivities
[03:05] <eddiestone> evaluations
[03:07] <eddiestone> I mean, registering tests results
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> not sure. moodle perhaps?
[03:08] <eddiestone> surely
[03:08] <eddiestone> but I'd like a desktop software
[03:09] <eddiestone> I'll keeping looking for it :)
[03:10] <Kamping_Kaiser> good luck
[03:55] <sbalneav> LaserJock: You around?
[06:11] <LaserJock> sbalneav: pong
[06:11] <sbalneav> hey there.
[06:12] <sbalneav> Aything you'd like to see education-app related in the docs?
[06:13] <LaserJock> well
[06:14] <LaserJock> I've been thinking a little about that
[06:14] <LaserJock> traditionally the Doc team has not documented actual apps
[06:14] <LaserJock> as the apps should have their own help
[06:14] <LaserJock> but I think we should at least have a decent overview of apps
[06:15] <sbalneav> Yeah, I'd also like to have at least a small chapter on downloading the extra app cd, and what to do with it.
[06:15] <sbalneav> it seems to cause a lot of people confusion.
[06:16] <LaserJock> yes, I *do* want to document the Addon CD much better
[06:17] <sbalneav> Also, this squeek vm thing seems to generate a lot of interest.
[06:17] <LaserJock> argg
[06:17] <sbalneav> Who's maintaining squeek, or squeak
[06:17] <LaserJock> I wish I had gotten to that
[06:17] <LaserJock> I touched it most last
[06:17] <LaserJock> but we need to use completely different packaging
[06:17] <LaserJock> the stuff we have now is based on some packages for some spanish distro
[06:18] <sbalneav> hm
[06:18] <LaserJock> that'll be on the todo list for Hardy
[06:19] <sbalneav> Hmm, smalltalk
[06:19] <LaserJock> since it's a Multiverse package I haven't done a ton with it frankly
[06:19] <LaserJock> we're basically never going to be able to ship it
[06:19] <sbalneav> bad license?
[06:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:21] <LaserJock> some Apple license I think
[06:21] <LaserJock> and they can't really change it or something
[06:22] <LaserJock> but I'd love to see us doing more with Universe/Multiverse
[06:22] <sbalneav> Can we ship uni/multi packages on the addon cd?
[06:22] <LaserJock> there's a lot of educational apps out there that we just aren't going to be able to ship or officially support
[06:22] <LaserJock> not presently no
[06:22] <LaserJock> I have to do a MIR and get them into Main
[06:22] <LaserJock> we can make something like edubuntu-universe metapacakges though
[06:25] <sbalneav> Want me to document the addon cd?
[06:25] <LaserJock> I can do it
[06:26] <sbalneav> Sure?
[06:26] <sbalneav> You got time?
[06:26] <LaserJock> unless you feel the need
[06:26] <LaserJock> well, I kinda consider it a part of implementing my spec ;-)
[06:26] <LaserJock> I'm redoing About Edubuntu
[06:26] <sbalneav> I could use all the doc help I can get :)
[06:26] <LaserJock> I'm not going to touch LTSP and stuff
[06:26] <LaserJock> but I can do a bit here and there
[06:27] <LaserJock> did you see the commit I did yesterday?
[06:27] <sbalneav> Response to my missive has been, underwhelming, to say the least.
[06:27] <sbalneav> yeah, I included it in my update.
[06:27] <LaserJock> moquist proofread the intro
[06:28] <sbalneav> heh, got one other response. Non technical guy, didn't want to install anything, but if I'd MAIL him a printout of the docs, he'd be happy to check spelling :)
[06:29] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:29] <LaserJock> I can spell check in vim/emacs/gedit already
[06:30] <LaserJock> grammar check is nice though
[06:30] <sbalneav> Wasn't particularily wanting to produce hardcopy, and receive back a red-penciled printout, though :)
[06:31] <LaserJock> heh
[06:35] <sbalneav> Well, considering all my work to ltspfs stable enough to merge into my "upstream" branch.
[07:07] <LaserJock> moquist: up?
[07:56] <LaserJock> moquist: postgresql instal of moodle didn't work for me. something about not being able to create the user
[07:56] <LaserJock> moquist: I'll try to get you more info tomorrow
[08:04] <moquist> shoot; just missed him.
[10:59] <moquist> ogra: hey
[10:59] <ogra> yo
[11:00] <moquist> ogra: If I drop a new postinst into /var/lib/dpkg/info how can I test it? I think laserjock said 'dpkg -i moodle', but dpkg doesn't know about 'moodle'.
[11:01] <moquist> I ran 'apt-get install moodle' and it failed, so it's already been unpacked and everything. I'm assuming/hoping I can just change postinst in /var/lib/dpkg/info and test immediately...
[11:01] <ogra> you can drop all the files in a dir and execute the postinst manually
[11:01] <ogra> needs .template and .config iirc
[11:01] <ogra> ah, ok
[11:01] <ogra> dpkg-reconfigure moodle should do it
[11:02] <ogra> or just dpkg -i it manually
[11:02] <moquist> /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: moodle is broken or not fully installed
[11:02] <ogra> ah
[11:02] <ogra> well, then dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archive/moodle*
[11:03] <moquist> ok...and it will use the modified postinst that's already in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ ?
[11:03] <ogra> no
[11:03] <moquist> :)
[11:04] <ogra> but you need to get it installed before you can play with the postinst via reconfigure
[11:04] <moquist> Do I need to rebuild the source package to test a new postinst? That's what I've been doing and it's slow.
[11:04] <moquist> OK; that makes sense.
[11:04] <ogra> well, as i said, i usually put postinst and .template in one dir and execute the postinst manually ... but then my postinst scripts arent very complax usually
[11:05] <ogra> *complex
[11:05] <ogra> if you are missing biuts, you probably need to comment stuff in the script to make it run
[11:05] <moquist> No, that should work here.
[11:05] <moquist> (a couple things just 'clicked' for me...I think)
[11:05] <moquist> biuts?
[11:10] <RichEd> hi ogra & moquist ...
[11:10] <moquist> RichEd: hey-a
[11:11] <RichEd> nice mail this morning from the US

[11:11] <RichEd> > A little more about the project...I have an eight year old daughter in a
[11:11] <RichEd> > private school near Seattle Washington. Parents are expected to contribute
[11:11] <RichEd> > time as well as money to the school. I opened my mouth about the virtues of
[11:11] <RichEd> > Ubantu and proposed a small thin client network for school.
[11:11] <ogra> bits :)
[11:11] <RichEd> >
[11:11] <RichEd> > Apparently someone decided it was a good idea for the entire chain of
[11:11] <RichEd> > seventy three schools across America. (Me and my big mouth.) The deployment
[11:11] <RichEd> > is about five thousand thin clients.

[11:11] <ogra> \o/
[11:11] <RichEd> indeed ... a seed school in many areas would be even better than a district
[11:12] <RichEd> and seeing as it is a private school chain, there is no "unilateral blocking decision" from above
[11:12] <moquist> nice!
[11:14] <highvoltage> RichEd: excellent!
[11:15] <RichEd> highvoltage: most excellent
[11:18] <highvoltage> I stand corrected
[11:18] <highvoltage> RichEd: most excellent!
[11:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[11:39] <moquist> ogra: bah. it is broken. I must sleep. I will work on it later today.
[11:39] <ogra> relax :)
[12:52] <rimakemp> Hi, I am new to open source. I am working at an independent school in canberra Australia, I want to find out about setting up edubuntu?
[12:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> rimakemp, hi mate :)
[12:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> rimakemp, what do you need to find out?
[12:54] <rimakemp> Hi how are you?
[12:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> good. distracting myself with IRC
[12:55] <rimakemp> is it worth while? how compatible is it with mainstream software? does it run in tandem etc. well?
[12:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, very, i think so
[12:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> in that order ;)
[12:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> if you can be slightly more specific about your question, i might be able to give slightly better answers
[01:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> btw mate, theres an #ubuntu-au if you want to hang out with some more people in your timezone ;)
[01:02] <rimakemp> Our school has received funding for a new computer lab and we are constantly being donated old computers with no operating system. the funds for software are not freely available for OS purchase. We are currently running windows xp. Is it feasible to intergrate edubuntu with our existing network and will it mix smoothly? (a little tired of being at the whim of Microsoft)
[01:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes its feasable, how easy it is to integrate i cant really comment on, but it will be easy or hard depending on your existing network complexity
[01:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> i havent tried integrating it myself
[01:04] <rimakemp> how hard is it to learn the edubuntu OS?
[01:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> *shrug* depends how fast you learn (and how open minded you are about a new style of operating). after a few months you should know the basics pretty well
[01:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> and after that it gets easier as you go
[01:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> also i dont know what the new releases look like, they may be easier/harder then 6.06 (which was my last edubuntu system)
[01:05] <rimakemp> Great! where are you situated?
[01:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> Adelaide hills :)
[01:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> rimakemp, i seriously suggest you jump into #ubuntu-au and say hi
[01:08] <rimakemp> Thanks for your advice. I will research it further and I will check out #ubuntu-au now
[01:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> np
[03:23] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
[05:50] <RichEd> jillc has updated her artwork taking note of our comments:
[05:50] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
[05:51] <RichEd> ogra ... take a look at the potential default [eduWorld.png]  and let me know if it's better
[05:51] <ogra> the logo needs to move up a bit (its covered by the panel)
[05:51] <ogra> and half the space between the logo and the right side would make it look better
[05:52] <ogra> (move it to the right 50%)
[05:52] <ogra> beyond that i'd take it as is :)
[05:52] <RichEd> ogra: with the new gentler logo ?
[05:52] <ogra> yeah
[05:52] <RichEd> okay ... i'll ask for the logo move
[05:52] <ogra> te panel covers the bottom spot of the logo here
[05:53] <ogra> s/bottom spot/half of the bottom spot/
[05:58] <RichEd> ogra: spiral also looks great now in earthtones
[05:58] <ogra> yup
[06:02] <ogra> oh, did you see the other one ?
[06:04] <RichEd> ogra: ? which other one ?
[06:05] <ogra> i see you added that ...
[06:05] <ogra> wiredubuntu.png
[06:05] <ogra> its nice
[06:05] <RichEd> that's from another dude who sent it via lisa alienvegas
[06:05] <RichEd> so we have 2 contributors
[06:05] <ogra> yeah
[06:06] <ogra> he seems to like dark backgrounds, could make a good usplash for us probably
[07:49] <moquist> ogra: when I execute the postinst standalone, it runs fine.
[07:49] <moquist> LaserJock: hey!
[07:49] <LaserJock> hi moquist
[07:50] <LaserJock> moquist: you are right, I didn't install postgresql first
[07:50] <moquist> LaserJock: I was just telling ogra that when I execute the postinst standalone, it works fine. But now I think I was wrong.
[07:50] <LaserJock> but I saw that a bunch of postgresql related packages being installed so I thought it would work
[07:51] <moquist> LaserJock: In the course of ditching 'sudo' in favor of 'su', I found a temporary-for-testing 'if false' in my postinst, and I've run into some other problem. 8-(
[07:51] <moquist> That's why we concluded that there should be a moodle-standalone metapackage.
[07:52] <LaserJock> it seemed weird to me because it looked to me like I had to install both mysql *and* postgresql to install moodle
[07:56] <LaserJock> moquist: are you working on the -standalone metapackage now?
[08:07] <moquist> LaserJock: not yet; i'm just working on the above problems for the regular package
[08:07] <LaserJock> moquist: do you know what deps specifically are needed?
[08:08] <moquist> well, probably exactly the same + either "postgres" or "mysql-server"
[08:08] <moquist> ...whichever one we want to support.
[08:09] <moquist> I know mysql doesn't have ACID, etc., but it's what the vast majority of moodle sites use, and it's easier (IMO) to use than postgres.
[08:09] <moquist> And these default moodle's we're putting in are only set up to be accessible as http://localhost/moodle, so we're obviously not targetting huge installations.
[08:09] <LaserJock> ogra: have you got an opinion on what DB should be default for a moodle-standalone package?
[08:14] <moquist> Oh, the package is "postgresql". But you knew that.
[08:23] <moquist> bah - createdb is working sudo and not working with su.
[08:24] <moquist> I wonder if it's related to the ROLE password for the database owner/user.
[08:29] <moquist> LaserJock: I'd like to create a [different]  package with an /etc/init.d/script and an /etc/default/config file. I looked at another package that has those (mpd) and it was non-obvious to me how they are handled. Can you give me any tips?
[08:30] <LaserJock> moquist: not much. you might check another similar package and talk to #ubuntu-motu
[08:30] <moquist> k; thx
[08:34] <moquist> LaserJock: are you guys looking for something to kill off leftover processes that hang around after sessions are terminated?
[08:35] <moquist> dtrask tells me so.
[08:35] <moquist> I was hoping to get my xterminator in at some point, but dtrask tells me ogra is looking for something now.
[08:35] <moquist> I'll plop it up on REVU, anyway. It's one of the packages for which I want an /etc/default/config file.
[08:35] <LaserJock> I don't know what's up for gutsy at least
[08:36] <LaserJock> David was emailing about it to -devel
[08:36] <moquist> yeah
[08:36] <moquist> it may be dtrask pushing to get it more than ogra ;)
[08:37] <LaserJock> obviously this isn't the tim to be feature planning though ;-)
[08:37] <moquist> I tried to get it into my PPA but I don't have that figured out yet. My source was rejected.
[08:37] <moquist> yeah, nk
[08:38] <LaserJock> moquist: are you a Launchpad Beta Tester?
[08:39] <moquist> that's why.
[08:39] <moquist> why did it even let me activate my PPA, then?
[08:41] <moquist> PPA says to me "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution"
[08:41] <LaserJock> I don't know, LP thing I guess
[08:42] <LaserJock> it's supposed to go live for everybody in a few weeks or so I think
[08:42] <LaserJock> moquist: join #launchpad real quick
[08:50] <moquist> LaserJock: I just uploaded 'xterminator' to my PPA so hopefully that'll show up now.
[10:28] <moquist> LaserJock: I've just uploaded a fixed moodle package to REVU, but it's not showing up yet.
[10:28] <moquist> I've also uploaded xterminator to my PPA, but I don't see that, yet, either.
[10:29] <LaserJock> it'll take some time for stuff in PPA to build
[10:29] <moquist> yep
[10:29] <LaserJock> it has to be put in the buildd queue
[10:30] <moquist> but does REVU have to build the package before http://revu.tauware.de/index.py shows the latest upload date?
[10:30] <LaserJock> no, REVU doesn't build a package at all
[10:30] <moquist> Didn't think so.
[10:30] <LaserJock> it just has a ~ 5min cron job
[10:30] <moquist> You mean I have to wait 5 WHOLE MINUTES?!? OK.
[10:32] <boyam> hehe
[10:32] <boyam> i couldnt resist
[10:33] <boyam> :-)
[10:35] <moquist> LaserJock: OK, REVU's cron job has now run. :)
[10:36] <LaserJock> good, the universe is saved
[10:36] <moquist> I thought the universe was frozen.
[10:36] <LaserJock> not MOTU Universe
[10:37] <LaserJock> I meant, *the* universe
[10:37] <LaserJock> my boss says that all the time
[10:37] <LaserJock> we'll be working out some crazy math
[10:38] <LaserJock> and in the end we get it to work out and he says "phew, the universe is preserved"
[10:39] <moquist> That's great.
[10:39] <moquist> Because math, you know, actually has something to do with the universe. Somehow...it's not really clear how, though. Hmm.
[10:40] <LaserJock> well, because our math is the fundamentals of why the universe is the way it is
[10:40] <LaserJock> if it was just math for math's sake sure ;-)
[10:40] <moquist> Sure is good we made up math, then! :-D
[10:40] <LaserJock> those imaginary numbers sure come in handy
[10:40] <moquist> Aren't they all imaginary?
[10:41] <moquist> I'm not looking to have a real discussion about Phil. of Math right now. I'm just playing. I'll stop b/c it's off-topic.
[10:44] <LaserJock> sorry, was afk
[10:44] <LaserJock> physically we see a difference between real and imaginary numbers
[10:44] <LaserJock> so the mental abstraction may be all imaginary, but the concrete physicality remains, IMO
[10:45] <moquist> sure
[10:45] <moquist> woohoo - my PPA built.
[10:46] <LaserJock> but it's always curious to me that the wavefunction, that describes any particle in the universe completely, is an imaginary function
[10:46] <LaserJock> but you square it to get a real function and that becomes the probability
[10:47] <moquist> Yeah. The more deeply you try to dive into anything like that (or into the philosophy behind the science), the more you realize that we have a lot of trouble trying to explain much of anything at such a level.
[10:48] <moquist> I'm going to test my PPA and then send a note out to the list(s) inviting people to test xterminator.
[10:49] <LaserJock> k