[01:31] <Paladine> hi
[01:32] <Paladine> am working on a community project called Ubuntu Users Social Network and was wondering if any of you fine people would be willing to take a concept image and work it into a finished design?
[01:33] <Paladine> the concept images are http://www.paladine.org.uk/images/uu-logo.png and http://www.paladine.org.uk/images/uu-logo2.png
[01:33] <Paladine> they are for the header block on the website
[01:33] <Paladine> my versions are just mashups of a concept
[01:33] <Paladine> I am not a graphic designer
[01:33] <Paladine> they both need the words "Ubuntu Users" on them somewhere too
[01:34] <Paladine> they both symbolise people in an arid landscape (a metaphor for a windows centric world) being drawn to the power and energy of ubuntu
[03:12] <Paladine> well I came up with a reasonably decent final image if you want to take a look http://www.paladine.org.uk/images/uu-logo3.png
[07:02] <troy_s> kwwii:  You _really_ need to append -tile to your montage request.  Assume a browser resolution of about 1024 and divide your image size geometry width into that.  Round and insert -tile <value>.  Joeseph's samples are _way_ too wide and probably are the default 'guess' of montage.
[07:02] <troy_s> kwwii: That page has grown into a nightmare.
[07:02] <troy_s> lol
[07:04] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, good point
[07:05] <troy_s> kwwii: You should really say 'upload ONE image of xxx size' and then you could run montage on them all.
[07:05] <troy_s> kwwii: it is just a gongshow now.
[07:05] <troy_s> kwwii: unorganized and nightmarish.
[07:06] <kwwii> man, are you ever positive about anything?
[07:06] <kwwii> :p
[07:07] <troy_s> yes
[07:07] <troy_s> very little with the state of ubuntu unfortunately.
[07:08] <troy_s> kwwii: Besides, put yourself in the headspace of a casual viewer.  That page is 'hard to manage' to put things delicately.
[07:09] <nothlit> thats because we're trying to use the wiki to do the job of gallery software :P
[07:09] <kwwii> sure, but you are also free to help you know :-)
[07:13] <troy_s> kwwii: I am not the Ubuntu art lead.  I would think that you agree that the running of the show should probably be structured and executed by that fellow.
[07:13] <troy_s> kwwii: Otherwise you run the risk of 'too many chiefs.'
[07:13] <troy_s> kwwii: I think it is positive to at least offer that space to the person who must make the ball go up the hill.
[07:22] <troy_s> tell me that there isn't some sort of stenography in those two first lion wallpapers.
[07:24] <kwwii> troy_s: sure, but I suck at editing wiki pages - I simply do not like them so feel free to help improve on the wiki page structure ;-)
[07:24] <kwwii> I dig the one with the lions face in it
[07:25] <troy_s> kwwii: Well it would require that you boil down the submits to say 2 or so.
[07:25] <troy_s> kwwii: per
[07:25] <troy_s> that is.
[07:25] <troy_s> kwwii: If you can hit me with a raw set of images on that wiki for your montaged versions (say 2 or so?) then I'll collage 2s from the others.
[07:25] <kwwii> in the end, the amount of feedback hasn't been that amazing anyway
[07:25] <troy_s> kwwii: There is a bit on the forums apparently.
[07:25] <troy_s> kwwii: It is hard to get any sort of feedback until there is critical mass anyways.
[07:26] <kwwii> true
[07:26] <kwwii> man, if there is one thing I like less than wikis it is forums
[07:26] <troy_s> lol
[07:27] <troy_s> anyways, if you can hit the ones you want i'll compile i suppose.
[07:27] <troy_s> i would think it is logical to 'boil' down to the ones that are at least _close_ to brown.
[07:27] <troy_s> kwwii: Thoughts?
[07:28] <kwwii> troy_s: good idea,  I think
[07:29] <troy_s> kwwii: At risk of nasty, I would then suggest that the 'art lead' make those decisions.
[07:29] <kwwii> here are the raw pics from JC: http://sinecera.de/JosephConnors.tar.bz2
[07:29] <troy_s> shite.
[07:29] <troy_s> can you pick two or three?
[07:29] <troy_s> that best exemplify the attempts?
[07:30] <kwwii> yes, I'll do that in a bit
[07:30] <troy_s> just glance at them
[07:30] <kwwii> I think that perhaps the best way to move forward on that page and the community wallpaper package would be to start a new wiki page
[07:30] <troy_s> then maybe also offer the two or three that you are progressing from the batch.
[07:30] <troy_s> well how about a 'further along' page
[07:30] <troy_s> with the drops
[07:30] <kwwii> exactly
[07:30] <troy_s> decision made by yourself.
[07:31] <kwwii> kind of a preselection of ones that are "somewhat near approveable" or whatever
[07:31] <troy_s> if you want, you can spend time offering up a 'why not this one' explanation somewhere, but for now, it would seem logical to get to a nice 3 or 4 column thumbnail section.
[07:31] <troy_s> yeah
[07:31] <troy_s> exactly
[07:31] <troy_s> perhaps that sort of feedback would be welcome as well.
[07:32] <troy_s> i actually don't really care, aside from the fact that having that much garbage on one page of varying sizes and such really makes the whole of the splinters of any 'community' look horribly scattered at best.
[07:32] <troy_s> kwwii: Do you have your batch available via tarball?
[07:33] <troy_s> your's are the only two sets that i require it of as the thumbnails aren't quite big enough (probably 300 wide or so would suffice -- maybe 400)
[07:33] <troy_s> kwwii: The rest I'll publish as a montage on the wiki for you.
[07:33] <troy_s> kwwii: The only things I would require are your 'push to next' selections and sources of your own 'push to next'
[07:33] <troy_s> (well not full sources, just something a little bigger than 150 wide)
[07:34] <elkbuntu> hmm... i quite like the idea behind the 'Springer' design
[07:34] <elkbuntu> except for the branding, of course
[07:34] <troy_s> that elephant skin rather rocks.
[07:35] <kwwii> troy_s: yes, I will get something together today and ping you later
[07:35] <elkbuntu> yeah, as a texture
[07:35] <kwwii> my goal this week is to get to an almost final wallpaper
[07:38] <troy_s> kwwii: What are you going with for kubuntu this roll?
[07:39] <kwwii> something that amazingly only took about 5min to make
[07:40] <kwwii> it has been in for quite a while
[07:40] <kwwii> kubuntu has 0% community artists - hever has had any really
[07:40] <troy_s> lol
[07:40] <kwwii> and I have no idea why
[07:40] <kwwii> when they are so much free-er to do what they want
[07:40] <kwwii> and everyone wants blue
[07:41] <troy_s> kwwii: I think that's a problem
[07:41] <troy_s> kwwii: Or a potential one.
[07:41] <troy_s> kwwii: I know from personal experience that many people consider KDE a Windows-inspired version.
[07:41] <troy_s> kwwii: Which I suppose comes with an upside and a downside.
[07:42] <troy_s> kwwii: As an aside, that lion skin with the brown fluid overlay is interesting too.
[07:42] <troy_s> kwwii: Again, would have been nifty to have had a brainstorm on the ideas.
[07:42] <troy_s> kwwii: Just goes to show where a true brainstorm might take you every odd submission or so.
[07:44] <troy_s> Go for http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/xsidekick409/lightbulb2.png?t=1187234593
[07:45] <kwwii> hehe, I tried to talk to that guy and he took things really poorly
[07:45] <kwwii> I was trying to help him and be nice but he got all touchy-feely about things
[07:45] <kwwii> that is what kept me from commenting too much
[07:51] <troy_s> that's unfortunate
[07:51] <troy_s> however, i don't think you should let the replies of a single individual prevent you from driving things further along.
[07:57] <kwwii> well, at that time he was the only one contributing:-)
[07:58] <kwwii> we have restructured things again so that I won't waste time working on other projects
[08:06] <troy_s> lol
[08:06] <troy_s> kwwii: How so?
[08:07] <kwwii> well, basically I do not have to work on the mobile stuff anymore
[08:07] <kwwii> we have a fixed "desktop team" now
[08:08] <troy_s> kwwii: Well that's good to hear.
[08:09] <troy_s> kwwii: What do you intend to focus your efforts on then?
[08:09] <kwwii> as I wanted to do for Gutsy, I want to have a full cycle to concentrate on getting things right for Heron
[08:10] <kwwii> as soon as I started work on Gutsy I got sidetracked by other projects
[08:10] <kwwii> kinda pissed me off really
[08:10] <kwwii> working on the mobile project was fun though, as it was something completely different than doing a desktop
[08:11] <troy_s> what did they end up going with design wise?
[08:12] <troy_s> (the last time I saw it it appeared to be a 'hey we can do the iphone too you know!' kid back of class sort of thing)
[08:12] <kwwii> well, the current state is nasty but in the end it will be black and orange
[08:12] <kwwii> kind of a funky light through glass effect
[08:13] <kwwii> the interface is quite different than the iphone, really
[08:13] <troy_s> kwwii: Who is the arbitrator?
[08:13] <troy_s> kwwii: Too bad -- I pushed sabdfl to pay attention to bloody transition effects about oh... 1.5 years ago.
[08:13] <kwwii> troy_s: we have several contracts with different companies, so there are many
[08:13] <troy_s> kwwii: Even wrote up a spec six months later.
[08:13] <troy_s> blah
[08:14] <kwwii> troy_s: well, we hired someone to work on desktop coding bling now, so things just might get better
[08:14] <troy_s> kwwii: I fear he just doesn't quite 'get it' -- which is cool.  It is truly unfortunate as he could have been a good year ahead of the ball.
[08:14] <troy_s> kwwii: Unfortunately, without some sort of directed vision, it is going to be nightmarish to try and weave all the new elements together into a cohesive whole.
[08:14] <troy_s> kwwii: I mean, he _still_ doesn't have a sound department.
[08:15] <kwwii> oh man, if you want to see crazy shit just check a project being done by several companies at once
[08:15] <troy_s> kwwii: Which is godawful ugly.
[08:15] <troy_s> kwwii: An ambience track as well as suitable desktop sounds would go a long way to rounding out one half of the mix.
[08:15] <kwwii> half the problem is finding good people who are willing to work on linux at all
[08:16] <kwwii> you cannot throw money at them...it is amazing
[08:16] <kwwii> I have heard it from their mouths
[08:16] <troy_s> kwwii: He apparently isn't throwing money at the right people -- as would bear out the track record.
[08:17] <kwwii> he has tried it on several people and they all seem to duck
[08:17] <troy_s> kwwii: I have spoken to at least three high visibility art directors (people like http://imdb.com/name/nm0579980/ for example) who would be gung ho to art direct a project like that.
[08:17] <troy_s> so he clearly is in the dark
[08:17] <troy_s> i know the last time i brought that up he insisted on someone living in the UK which is just foolish.
[08:18] <troy_s> he just doesn't get it.
[08:18] <troy_s> very very sad.
[08:18] <troy_s> note:  that is _the_ art director for avatar.
[08:18] <troy_s> a good designer / artist would look to anything such as ubuntu as an amazing opportunity to do some tremendous work.
[08:18] <troy_s> hacks might not.
[08:19] <kwwii> I can understand wanting to have someone local to talk to on a daily basis
[08:19] <troy_s> i can't.
[08:19] <troy_s> it just isn't done that way in the big real world.
[08:20] <troy_s> you can certainly meet with people and like.  that is terrific.
[08:20] <kwwii> dude, having experience doing movies does not mean that you can create a linux desktop experience
[08:20] <troy_s> that said, having someone 'next door' just reeks of micromanagement.
[08:20] <kwwii> aside from the art part, there are things that you simply cannot do yet
[08:20] <kwwii> and some of that can be developed but some cannot
[08:20] <kwwii> not yet, at elast
[08:20] <kwwii> least
[08:21] <troy_s> There are underutilized components already existing.
[08:21] <kwwii> and building a system in which such is possible takes time and patience
[08:21] <kwwii> you need to hire lots of good people first
[08:21] <troy_s> and I would argue that diana has taken fedora leaps and bounds past many efforts.
[08:21] <troy_s> (almost single handedly)
[08:21] <kwwii> and the hard part about that is finding them and getting them to want to work for you
[08:22] <kwwii> yes, she has done an amazing job
[08:22] <troy_s> in the end it just takes people with ability and the ability to not micromanage.
[08:22] <troy_s> which is a huge chunk of effort on the end portion.  mistakes will be made.
[08:22] <kwwii> but as you would say, she has a free hand and nobody looking over her shoulder
[08:22] <troy_s> not at all -- she has the same issues.
[08:23] <kwwii> if we had a design that nice it would have been shot down for having too much detail and not being luminent enough :p
[08:23] <troy_s> (or at least our rather limited email / irc conversations have discussed)
[08:23] <troy_s> kwwii: And yes, I agree.  WTF IS LUMINENT
[08:23] <nothlit> go around sabdfl? in the end the community will choose
[08:23] <kwwii> nothlit: now way that is going to happen
[08:23] <kwwii> erm, no way
[08:23] <troy_s> nothlit: Not quite.  It might look that way on the surface and you will see that repeated time and time again, but ...
[08:24] <troy_s> kwwii: Although that is a card that he might not be willing to keep playing.
[08:24] <kwwii> troy_s: I get the feeling that things are changing slowly
[08:24] <kwwii> I think it has a lot to do with trust
[08:24] <kwwii> funny as that may sound
[08:24] <kwwii> it is his baby, and he is like a paranoid first time parent
[08:25] <kwwii> well, enough bashing my boss
[08:25] <troy_s> i said that in an email to him a while back.  he is like the parent who has a 15 year old and insists on dressing him / her.
[08:25] <troy_s> lol
[08:25] <troy_s> lol
[08:26] <troy_s> on a side note... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=539975
[08:26] <troy_s> that is quite a rig.
[08:27] <kwwii> oh wow, no doubt
[08:27] <kwwii> I wonder if the guy can make decent music with it
[08:28] <troy_s> there is a snippit of his work.
[08:28] <kwwii> I know so many photographers with amazing equipment that make shitty pictures
[09:19] <lassegul> http://sinecera.de/JosephConnors.tar.bz2
[09:27] <kwwii> lassegul: ?
[09:28] <lassegul> kwwii: sorry. i was just reading through the backlog, and clicked a link the wrong way probably..
[09:28] <kwwii> lol
[09:28] <lassegul> good morning though
[09:29] <kwwii> good morning ;-)
[09:29] <lassegul> sat up all night trying to make changes to springer.
[09:30] <lassegul> 4.15 pm, after I redid the whole damn thing, trying to follow troy_s advice, I still felt that the original sketch up was better.
[09:30] <lassegul> and im starting to hate Inkscapes occasional "internal error"s
[09:33] <lassegul> so im giving it a fresh start this evening.
[09:33] <kwwii> hehe, I know the feeling
[09:33] <kwwii> just remember to save all the time
[09:34] <kwwii> or save different versions as I do
[09:34] <kwwii> which kinda sucks but is better than loosing your changes
[09:35] <lassegul> yeah
[09:39] <lassegul> troy_s: You still here?
[09:40] <troy_s> lassegul: unfortunately yes.
[09:40] <troy_s> lassegul: You will also find that certain revisions are more stable than others.
[09:40] <troy_s> lassegul: If you have issues, revert to a prior or update and try a compile.
[09:41] <lassegul> troy_s: tried to go for five swooshes, but it didnt go very well. Can you make 3 dominant swooshes, and one less clear, and will it still work as a fobi(whatshisface) nr?
[09:42] <troy_s> lol
[09:43] <troy_s> yeah bear in mind that there are _no_ rules...  that said, your average audience member is darn astute and will tend to cleave towards those nasty well trained numbers.
[09:43] <troy_s> 3 maybe?>
[09:47] <lassegul> yeah, but the thing is its really a cross. Its not just two shapes, but it could just as much be. And i like it, but maybe we'll try with just 3.
[09:55] <lassegul> so kwwii, you redoing the human theme?
[09:58] <kwwii> lassegul: erm, what do you mean by "redoing" ?
[09:59] <lassegul> kwwii: is it going to be updated for gutsy or is it the same as feisty and edgy?
[10:01] <kwwii> lassegul: which part do you mean? the icons are what they are, no big changes there, the style is probably not going to change a lot, although I did think about tweeaking the gtkrc a bit
[10:09] <lassegul> ok. i was maybe thinking making the metacity theme a little different. I can send you a proposal later tonight, nothing big, just a little change of colours.
[10:10] <lassegul> kwwii: and a little different shine.
[10:39] <nothlit> kwwii: i keep check my inkscape stuff into git regularly as i work
[11:29] <kwwii> lassegul: probably not as that would require coding
[11:30] <lassegul> kwwii: ok
[11:30] <lassegul> kwwii: what were you thinking about doing with gtkrc?
[11:32] <kwwii> tweaking the colors, making it more flexible
[11:50] <lapo> hi
[12:14] <lassegul> hi
[12:40] <lassegul> kwwii: shoud we have  a ubuntu logo worked in to the picture or not?
[12:47] <lassegul> kwwii; on the wallpapers. what do you or sabdfl think about that?
[12:55] <kwwii> lassegul: normally I would say no, but if you can do it right it might be ok
[12:55] <kwwii> it should not stand out
[12:56] <lassegul> kwwii: hmm.. ok
[01:19] <lapo> I need testers for tangerine icon theme volunteers?
[01:24] <lapo> eventually you can find it here http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/Tangerine.tar.bz2
[06:57] <kwwii> much later :-)
[09:08] <lasse_> hi people.
[09:12] <lassegul> troy_s: Ive really used the mask thingy very much. its real handy
[09:20] <lassegul> troy_s: the future is truly mathematical :^)
[10:06] <troy_s> lassegul: It's very good.
[10:07] <troy_s> lassegul: The real trick to inkscape is getting a workflow.
[10:11] <lapo> hi
[10:18] <kwwii> hi lapo
[10:19] <lapo> guten aben kwwii :-)
[10:20] <terlmann> lo kewe
[10:20] <terlmann> keywee
[10:20] <terlmann> LOL
[10:20] <kwwii> hi terlmann
[10:20] <kwwii> good stuff you added to the wiki
[10:21] <terlmann> Thx
[10:21] <kwwii> although I could argue some of the points I think you have it mainly right
[10:21] <kwwii> it is hard to make rules that hold for everything
[10:22] <terlmann> well
[10:22] <terlmann> I really cant find the sources
[10:22] <terlmann> I am certain that the page I got it from years ago had it better
[10:22] <terlmann> but I cant find it now
[10:23] <terlmann> some of my rules could use some explaining , thats for certain.
[10:23] <kwwii> the problem with rules and artwork is that as soon as you make them someone proves you wrong by breaking them
[10:23] <terlmann> the one about nothing in corners
[10:24] <terlmann> well my rules are about how to make art the RIGHT way. I dont think any art form can break these rules.
[10:24] <terlmann> :-D
[10:24] <kwwii> although I would agree with what you wrote for anyone who needs to read rules
[10:29] <troy_s> lol
[10:34] <lassegul> troy_s: ive been trying to follow the colour scheme of the warty and breezy samples, it doesnt as good that way, but itll have to go.
[10:34] <lassegul> troy_s: anyways you can see it at the wiki in about 2 min.
[10:35] <troy_s> lassegul: That is part of the problem really -- the palette issues.
[10:35] <troy_s> lassegul: At any rate, all you have to work with is fundamental value contrast.
[10:35] <troy_s> lassegul: As is the nature of the rather haphazard method that sabdfl stumbled upon the tone.
[10:35] <lassegul> troy_s: :)
[10:36] <troy_s> lassegul: The background is less than uh -- planned.
[10:37] <troy_s> lassegul: In the early going he wanted to start out with sepia toned photography -- which is brilliant really.  Unfortunately, due to some execution concerns, the photography went out and all forms from that point on.  The sepia tone stayed (well one of about 20 different sepias -- the one that you see in those wallpapers is more or less a direct sampling of a sepia toned photo.)
[10:41] <lassegul> New upload on the wiki.
[10:42] <lassegul> damn its still to orange :(
[10:43] <troy_s> lassegul: Just use the colour sampler in Inkscape
[10:43] <troy_s> lassegul: Drag that little sample kwwii created onto your project and sample from it.
[10:43] <lassegul> troy_s: not a bad idea.
[10:43] <troy_s> lassegul: Also note that if you click and drag with the sampler, it will sample the area under the circle.
[10:44] <troy_s> lassegul: averaging out the tones.
[10:44] <troy_s> lassegul: That is really evolving.
[10:45] <lassegul> troy_s: nice, ill be using that.
[10:45] <lassegul> troy_s: thanks
[10:48] <troy_s> lassegul: Did you get the PM?
[10:48] <lassegul> troy_s: sorry, i pay little attention to blinking windows ;)
[11:27] <troy_s> lassegul: Check your mail.
[11:27] <lassegul> aye aye cptn
[11:35] <troy_s> lassegul: Hope that helps a bit.  There is some good reading in there too.
[11:35] <troy_s> lassegul: Off for a while.
[11:39] <lassegul> yeah, thanks, reading it now.