[12:34] <Crisps> which channel do I need for application development on ubuntu?
[12:35] <ion_> Depends on what language and libraries you use.
[12:36] <ion_> For instance, if youre using Gtk, look for the Gtk channel.
[12:36] <Crisps> looking at GUI based stuff, in C++
[12:36] <dobey> there's nothing really ubuntu-specific unless you're doing something with packaging, or system configuration
[12:36] <Crisps> I really don't know a great deal about the x/gnome/kde interfaces. all my exp is on win32
[12:37] <wasabi> Anybody aware of LVM's pvmove being broken in 2.6.22 and whether it was patched?
[12:49] <Moniker42> hey, where are some of the artwork team members?
[12:52] <funman> hi
[12:52] <funman> i'm looking for crimsun
[12:59] <funman> do you know which time he has ? (GMT+?)
[12:59] <Moniker42> funman, you could track down his launchpad or forums profile...
[01:01] <funman> he sorry i don't use these
[05:16] <kenro> Heavy question, in and out of topic: Is it possible to combine the best of text RPG (MUSH) and the best of graphical MMORPG into one *nix-based suite?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> ....
[05:17] <Hobbsee> dude, #ubuntu-offtopic
[05:18] <Hobbsee> hiya RAOF
[05:19] <Chipzz> heya Hobbsee
[05:19] <ajmitch> hello
[05:20] <Hobbsee> hi Chipzz
[05:20] <RAOF> Hey ajmitch
[05:20] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
[05:20] <ScottK> Hello Hobbsee
[05:20] <ScottK> Hello ajmitch
[05:20] <ScottK> hello RAOF
[05:20] <ScottK> Heya Chipzz
[05:20] <RAOF> Hi ScottK :)
[05:20] <ScottK> Happy now?
[05:20] <Chipzz> kenro: dude, beside the fact that that question really is off-topic, what even makes you think you're going to get an answer here (ie anyone at all plays let alone develops these kind of games)?
[05:21] <Chipzz> hi ScottK :)
[05:22] <ScottK> kenro: Yes.
[05:22] <kenro> Chipzz:  Know a #ubuntu-hackers or #ubuntu-grapics_developers? Hell, I'll even take a #ubuntu-games_developers.
[05:23] <IntuitiveNipple> kenro: http://www.projectdarkstar.com/
[05:23] <Chipzz> ScottK: heh :)
[05:23] <RAOF> I think that was a satisfactory greeting avalanche, yes.
[05:24] <Chipzz> ok, really baffled that anyone knew an answer to that (IntuitiveNipple) :)
[05:24] <Hobbsee> er, how can i tell why a package was installed?
[05:24] <ajmitch> RAOF: I don't know anyone who'd play those games, do you? :)
[05:25] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: look at reverse dependencies/suggest/recommends with grep-dctrl?
[05:25] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: was looking thru them, but i cant get higher than x11-common
[05:25] <Chipzz> grep-status even
[05:25] <RAOF> ajmitch: No, not really ;)
[05:25] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: but I'm sure you knew that ;)
[05:26] <ScottK> Hobbsee: One option is to try and remove it and then see what apt wants to take with it.
[05:26] <Chipzz> ScottK: that won't work for recommends/suggests ?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, good poing
[05:27] <Hobbsee> er, point
[05:27] <Chipzz> or if the package is in the seeds (which I assume it's not in this case)
[05:27] <Hobbsee> that still doesnt help - it now wants to remove a heck of a lot of stuff
[05:27] <Hobbsee> it's not in the seeds, i checked that :)
[05:27] <Hobbsee> oh, it looks like everything X based depends on it
[05:28] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: you probably would have known if it was anyway I assume ;)
[05:28] <Hobbsee> that's enough for me to answer the question :)
[05:28] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: well, i thought so, but some of the X stuff was named confusingly, so...
[05:29] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: yeah, the X packages are a twisty maze I guess :)
[05:29] <kenro> IntuitiveNipple:  I refuse to truncate your nick. I don't nip. But thanks for the url.
[05:29] <Chipzz> and the packages having had different names over the course of the years also doesn't help (xfree/xorg etc)
[05:29] <IntuitiveNipple> lol
[05:30] <IntuitiveNipple> kenro: I've been experimenting with a 'virtual world'  source-code and package explorer using it
[05:33] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: oh btw, I have been playing with writing a program which visualizes dependencies etc in a graph quite some time ago
[05:34] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: cool :)
[05:34] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: gave up on it due it being impractical due to the sheer amount of packages installed by default though, which makes the graph too complucated
[05:34] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: I can throw the source code your way if you want to look (and if I find it)?
[05:34] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: written in pygtk though ;P
[05:34] <Hobbsee> heh, nah, i'll be right
[05:34] <IntuitiveNipple> I wrote something similar a while back, but using Google Earth to model it
[05:35] <Hobbsee> i can read rdepends mostly
[05:35] <kenro> ScottK:  I... sorta half-believe about David Icke's Illuminati terrorists/social engineers... I tink ocaml might be a good graphics base for this thing.
[05:35] <Chipzz> IntuitiveNipple: how do you handle laying out the packages?
[05:36] <IntuitiveNipple> base packages closer to the ground; higher level at increasing altitudes, with paths drawn between dependencies
[05:37] <\sh> gnarf...can anybody reproduce some segfaults with firefox when going in p.u.c and scrolling down via mouse wheel?
[05:37] <Chipzz> IntuitiveNipple: yeah, but doesn't that still leave you with the problem of finding suitable x/y coordinates?
[05:38] <IntuitiveNipple> Chipzz: I played around with that... I assigned the various package categories to different countries
[05:38] <IntuitiveNipple> There's all sorts of messing about you can do at the level to position them on the surface
[05:40] <Chipzz> IntuitiveNipple: that does waste an awefull lot of perfectly well oceans though ;)
[05:40] <Chipzz> s/well/good/
[05:40] <IntuitiveNipple> there's no cities in the oceans to act as anchors for the various packages though :)
[05:40] <Chipzz> sure there is! atlantis :)
[05:41] <IntuitiveNipple> You could do anything in that sense, but I was enjoying myself.... and I found it becoming quite intuitive to visualise the dependencies
[05:41] <IntuitiveNipple> One day I might finish it and put it online :)
[05:42] <IntuitiveNipple> 64-bit Gutsy certainly flies compared to 32-bit - I just got Google Earth installed on tribe-5, but been building packages and it's at least 40% faster
[05:46] <Hobbsee> good morning cjwatson
[06:04] <sbalneav> Anyone having problems pushing to bazaar.launchpad.net?  Have I missed a downtime announcement?
[06:04] <Fujitsu> sbalneav: LP died a little while ago, and one of the sysadmins is uncontactable... might be a little while.
[06:04] <sbalneav> ah, ok
[06:05] <sbalneav> Just wanted to make sure it wasn't me.
[06:05] <fabbione> morning
[06:05] <mpt> s/one/both/
[06:05] <sbalneav> Morning fabbione
[06:05] <Fujitsu> Hey fabbione.
[06:06] <Fujitsu> mpt: Who's the other? mthaddon?
[06:06] <mpt> yes
[06:07] <Hobbsee> greetings sbalneav, fabbione
[06:07] <sbalneav> Hey hobsee.
[06:08] <sbalneav> err, Hobbsee
[06:09] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:14] <\sh> re
[08:53] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:53] <desrt> greetings, excessive cross-poster!
[08:54] <MacSlow> hi desrt
[09:16] <dholbach> good morning
[09:18] <mdke> hi dholbach!
[09:18] <dholbach> hey mdke
[09:19] <mdke> dholbach: how are you?
[09:19] <dholbach> mdke: quite well - how are you?
[09:19] <mdke> dholbach: good thanks.
[09:19] <mdke> dholbach: would you mind doing an ubuntu-docs upload soonish?
[09:20] <dholbach> mdke: I have a bunch of other things to do atm, but I set it on my todo list
[09:20] <mdke> dholbach: great, not super urgent
[09:20] <dholbach> ok super
[09:20] <mdke> dholbach: the other question I wanted to ask - I saw the gnome-docs upload went through, did you need to do something else to make it build?
[09:21] <dholbach> mdke: no - it seems to work nicely just like that
[09:21] <mdke> dholbach: hmm. I got a build error back from LP about dpkg being the wrong version, did you see that?
[09:22] <dholbach> mdke: uh - no; maybe that was a one-time error due to something else?
[09:23] <mdke> dholbach: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36147/ was the error
[09:23] <dholbach> mdke: ok, we should fix that - can you add that pre-depends?
[09:23] <dholbach> mdke: looks like a warning to me - did the build stop then?
[09:24] <mdke> dholbach: that was everything in the email, it says rejected
[09:24] <dholbach> ok
[09:24] <dholbach> then we should fix that
[09:24] <mdke> but I saw the upload on the changes mailing list, which is why I thought perhaps you'd done it again
[09:24] <dholbach> no, I did not
[09:24] <dholbach> I was too busy to see that happened
[09:24] <mdke> ok, perhaps the changes mailing list carries rejected uploads too?
[09:25] <dholbach> I think it was accepted on the buildd, but then failed to build
[09:25] <mdke> ok
[09:26] <mdke> I'm not very confident with adding something like that with a version number, but if you tell me what it should look like I'll do it
[09:26] <dholbach> Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.10.24)
[09:27] <mdke> ok
[09:28] <dholbach> I'll do another upload of that later on as well
[09:28] <dholbach> at some stage it'd be nice if the doc team made use of the sponsoringprocess
[09:28] <dholbach> that way you're not blocked on me, but anybody can do uploads for you
[09:28] <mdke> dholbach: ok. I'm sorry to chase you about it all the time
[09:29] <dholbach> no no, no problem
[09:29] <dholbach> I just thought it might be better, if you weren't blocked on me
[09:29] <dholbach> right now the packages are in a good enough shape so that anybody can take care of them
[09:30] <mdke> ok. Sometimes I bug Laserjock too :)
[09:30] <mdke> alright, I've made the change and pushed it up to lp
[09:30] <dholbach> rock
[09:30] <mdke> thanks for the help
[09:30] <dholbach> anytime :)
[09:47] <saispo> Fetch failure: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-feisty.git <- it's normal ?
[10:21] <dholbach> can somebody move ubuntu-dev-tools out of NEW?
[10:25] <seb128> dholbach: having a look
[10:26] <dholbach> seb128: you ROCK :)
[10:29] <seb128> 404main, weird name ;)
[10:32] <seb128> dholbach: looks good, you just forgot to list Canonical to the list of copyright holders
[10:33] <seb128> dholbach: I will accept it now, would be nice to fix it in bzr though
[10:33] <dholbach> I'll do that
[10:33] <seb128> thanks
[10:33] <dholbach> I want to add a tool to upload to PPA and automatically mark/tag bugs soon anyway
[10:33] <dholbach> (once the new pylpbugs is up and I managed to do a bunch of other things)
[10:34] <seb128> isn't uploading to ppa just a matter to change the dput config?
[10:34] <dholbach> yes
[10:35] <dholbach> but I'd like to just run       revuput my-ppa       to let the tool automatically run debuild, upload and make sure to add a comment, etc to the bug that is mentioned in (LP #xxx)
[10:35] <dholbach> (all according to SponsorshipProcess)
[10:35] <dholbach> maybe even file bugs at some stage
[10:36] <dholbach> it's just a shame we only have the mail interface for filing bugs atm
[10:36] <dholbach> thanks a lot again seb128
[10:36] <seb128> you're welcome
[10:37] <seb128> speaking about Process
[10:37] <seb128> do we have a script for uvf exception requests?
[10:37] <dholbach> no, not yet
[10:37] <dholbach> but I agree, we should have one
[10:37] <dholbach> it'd be nice
[10:37] <dholbach> do you think the idea I outlined does make sense?
[10:38] <seb128> yes
[10:38] <dholbach> good :)
[10:39] <dholbach> ;-)
[10:43] <Riddell> Mithrandir: tribe 6 posting to u-d-a needing approval
[10:44] <Mithrandir> Riddell: approved
[10:45] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Can I beg you for a sync without filing a bug or waving a UVFe around? :-)
[10:45] <StevenK> Mithrandir: (There are no Ubuntu changes)
[10:46] <Mithrandir> StevenK: what package?
[10:46] <StevenK> Mithrandir: kbuild
[10:59] <soren> StevenK: Any particular reason why you haven't uploaded virtualbox yet?
[11:03] <StevenK> soren: Because it doesn't build, and requires the new kbuild to do so anyway.
[11:07] <soren> StevenK: Ah. I must have misinterpreted your "If you guys want to see build logs and such, happy to attach them"  remark :)
[11:07] <soren> StevenK: I naively assumed that those build logs would show *succesful* builds :)
[11:08] <soren> That'll teach me not to make assumptions.
[11:08] <StevenK> soren: I filed the bug before I tried to build it. I added the adduser dependancy, filed the bug, and then tried to test build it.
[11:09] <StevenK> soren: I also naively assumed that since it built for Debian it would build for us, too. :-)
[11:09] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Oh, do you have a sec for a dorky archive question?
[11:12] <Mithrandir> StevenK: sure
[11:12] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Why is napi in supported?
[11:13] <StevenK> Er, nabi, sorry
[11:14] <Mithrandir> nabi                                     | nabi                            | Gutsy supported seed          | Changwoo Ryu <cwryu@debian.org>                                |          428378 |            1008
[11:14] <Mithrandir> no idea _why_ it's in the supported seed, though
[11:14] <StevenK> It was added to supported during hoary's development.
[11:15] <StevenK> And is at the moment in DEPWAIT due to a library it wants that isn't in main.
[11:15] <StevenK> Hrm. Two Mithrandir's. Neat.
[11:17] <soren> StevenK: nabi looks like something Koreans want. Any particular reason why it wouldn't be in main?
[11:17] <soren> IIRC we have another few packages in main that are there to enable some sort of exotic input methods?
[11:19] <StevenK> Hrm. Fair enough.
[11:21] <soren> StevenK: kbuild is only used by VirtualBox. Do you see any reason why we shouldn't uvfe it?
[11:24] <StevenK> soren: [18:46]  < StevenK> Mithrandir: Can I beg you for a sync without filing a bug or
[11:24] <StevenK>                    waving a UVFe around? :-)
[11:24] <StevenK> I'm handling it, I assure you.
[11:24] <soren> Oh. :)
[11:25] <soren> StevenK: I'll scurry off and try to make myself useful again then :)
[11:25] <StevenK> Mithrandir hasn't answered me yet, though. *hint* :-)
[11:27] <seb128> soren, StevenK: I would like to sync the new pigment and elisa from Debian for the cool effect (the current versions we have are really outdated, it was not available previous cycle so no regression, etc), could I get an approval without spending work on filling bugs, attaching logs, etc? ;)
[11:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: well, I'd probably sync and review together if I ended up approving SK's request.
[11:28] <Mithrandir> StevenK: I need to finish writing this mail and poke a look at it, then I can give you an answer.
[11:28] <soren> seb128: It's ok with me.
[11:29] <StevenK> seb128: My rationale is so I can get virtualbox into Gutsy. And according to soren, virtualbox is the only thing that uses kbuild. So they are two very different situations.
[11:30] <soren> Mithrandir: FWIW I'm giving a very enthusiastic +1 on the kbuild uvfe.
[11:30] <seb128> StevenK: you want to speak to Mithrandir I think ;)
[11:31] <StevenK> Mithrandir: ^
[11:31] <StevenK> seb128: Sure, but I wanted to tell you that I'm not just doing it on a whim.
[11:32] <ogra> mjg59, have a look at bug 48212, would it make sense to have dhcp3-server by default in the config ?
[11:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 48212 in ltsp "ltsp's dhcpd fails after server is hibernated" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48212
[11:34] <seb128> StevenK: so that's ok from you for the uvf exception? ;)
[11:37] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi all
[11:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I don't know if this is the right place to discuss this
[11:38] <seb128> Le-Chuck_ITA: "this" being?
[11:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> well
[11:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> we have apprenticeships at university here
[11:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and I might be involved in the organization of some of them
[11:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I was thinking about giving some LP blueprint
[11:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> as topic
[11:39] <Le-Chuck_ITA> the student has to implement a simple software project
[11:39] <seb128> good ;)
[11:39] <Le-Chuck_ITA> the problem is we would need mentoring from inside ubuntu
[11:39] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and a final short relation discussing the merits of the student
[11:39] <Le-Chuck_ITA> mentoring would be useful to ensure that, if the blueprint is implemented right
[11:40] <Le-Chuck_ITA> it makes into ubuntu soon
[11:40] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and the final relation is used to grade the student
[11:40] <Le-Chuck_ITA> the former is just to attract students
[11:40] <Le-Chuck_ITA> but the latter is very important
[11:45] <soren> Le-Chuck_ITA: Hmm... That sounds like quite a bit of work to commit to just like that :) Maybe you could post to the mailing list and provide a bit more detail of what (and how much) would be expected from Ubuntu?
[11:46] <iwj> OMG WTF if you write `LIBC_' anywhere in the template for the libc postinst it sedderies it to `libc6_'.
[11:46] <Le-Chuck_ITA> that would be the next step, I was here just to understand if such a thing would be possible
[11:46] <Le-Chuck_ITA> what do you mean with "quite a bit of work"?
[11:46] <Le-Chuck_ITA> of course mentoring would be done at university too
[11:47] <Le-Chuck_ITA> in the end, we have a student working for a couple of months
[11:48] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and we only need two persons to periodically check that progress is in the right direction
[11:48] <Le-Chuck_ITA> one here and one there :)
[11:48] <soren> Le-Chuck_ITA: Oh, I see.
[11:49] <soren> Le-Chuck_ITA: Still, a post to the mailing list with that bit of information and a rough schedule would be good. It's easier to get the right people (the ones who have the power to commit a bit of man power to this) into to loop that way.
[11:50] <Le-Chuck_ITA> that's fine
[11:50] <Le-Chuck_ITA> what mailing list do you suggest?
[11:50] <soren> ubuntu-devel-discuss, I think.
[11:51] <soren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-devel-discuss
[11:51] <Le-Chuck_ITA> ok, thanks
[11:51] <Le-Chuck_ITA> oh
[11:51] <Le-Chuck_ITA> sorry I still have to learn not to close IRC windows :)
[11:51] <Le-Chuck_ITA> in gaim, I mean, where I use to close them all the time
[11:52] <Le-Chuck_ITA> bye and thanks
[11:57] <asac> stgraber: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/network-manager/ubuntu.0.6.x.dev.opennet ... should bring the ultimate healing :)
[11:58] <asac> (of course only in combination with https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/intellinuxwireless/ipw3945.asac)
[11:58] <Mithrandir> StevenK,soren: you've tested the new version with virtualbox?
[12:08] <dholbach> hrm, why does my backlight switch back to dark every now and then?
[12:12] <Company> dholbach: because your machine is idle?
[12:12] <geser> Mithrandir: can you please give-back xmms-crossfade on lpia. Thanks.
[12:12] <Ng> dholbach: I get that, and sometimes it then goes back to being bright again (even if the machine isn't idle, but I think g-p-m and idleness are broken atm in gutsy)
[12:13] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: please give back djplay on sparc and amd64
[12:13] <Ng> e.g. my g-p-m settings say to sleep if idle for 15 minutes, but it does it after 5 as per #135813)
[12:14] <Mithrandir> Adri2000,geser : given back
[12:14] <dholbach> Company: my machine is not running on battery
[12:14] <dholbach> Ng: ok
[12:14] <Company> my macbook ponly goes idle when on battery
[12:14] <Company> when _not_ on battery
[12:14] <Ng> for bonus points, my machine now suspends when I pull the AC
[12:15] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: thanks
[12:15] <dholbach> I have that every now and then too :-/
[12:15] <Company> Ng: does it come back when you plug the ac back in? ;)
[12:15] <Ng> Company: no ;)
[12:15] <Ng> I've not filed a bug about that yet though, because I wanted to make sure it was always happening, but it is :(
[12:16] <Company> luckily g-p-m lists events in its graphs
[12:16] <Company> so you can check if it's g-p-m's fault or not
[12:26] <StevenK> Mithrandir: virtualbox won't build with the old kbuild.
[12:27] <Mithrandir> StevenK: well, I approved and did the sync, so. :-)
[12:27] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Heh, thanks. :-)
[12:28] <StevenK> Now to see if virtualbox runs, now I have it building on both amd64 and i386.
[12:28] <Mithrandir> shiny
[12:28] <StevenK> Hopefully, this will make the tribe6 release notes.
[12:31] <StevenK> By rights, the Debian boffin in charge of this thing should do the same.
[12:34] <StevenK> Woot! It runs.
[12:34] <StevenK> Now to see if boots a VM
[12:34] <StevenK> if it, even
[12:37] <StevenK> Mithrandir: What would say to a virtualbox-modules package that Build-Depends on virtualbox-source, linux-headers-2.6.22-* and built modules for -386/-generic for i386 and amd64?
[12:39] <StevenK> Hold on a second, surely Debian has already done the work for this ...
[12:40] <Mithrandir> StevenK: sounds like something that could well be part of linux-ubuntu-modules?
[12:41] <StevenK> That sounds like a better idea.
[12:44] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Except that linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 is in main.
[12:46] <seb128> StevenK: so, are you ok with the elisa uvf exception?
[12:46] <StevenK> seb128: I didn't know that was a serious question, sorry.
[12:47] <seb128> StevenK: what do you think that was? ;)
[12:47] <seb128> I need 2 motu-uvf members approval ;)
[12:47] <StevenK> seb128: A jab about what I asked Mithrandir? :-)
[12:47] <seb128> ahhhh
[12:47] <StevenK> seb128: Is there a bug?
[12:48] <seb128> no, I asked soren and you because I want to sync it and I don't want to spend an hour doing diffstats, etc
[12:48] <seb128> no, that was the reason I asked on IRC, going faster
[12:48] <seb128> as said we didn't ship it before so there is no regression and the current version is really outdated
[12:48] <StevenK> seb128: Okay, that's fine. Rationale and main differences?
[12:49] <StevenK> Ah, that answers the rationale bit.
[12:49] <seb128> nothing uses pidgment out of elisa
[12:49] <seb128> so that's basically updating a new application
[12:49] <seb128> which will make users and upstream happier
[12:49] <StevenK> seb128: Okay, +1, go ahead
[12:50] <seb128> thanks
[12:50] <StevenK> seb128: Sorry for the misunderstanding
[12:50] <seb128> that's alright ;)
[12:50] <StevenK> Come on kbuild, build quicker.
[12:50] <seb128> who gives approval for new universe packages?
[12:50] <seb128> bug #136972
[12:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136972 in libcairo-perl "autopkgtest gutsy libcairo-perl: erroneous package!" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136972
[12:51] <StevenK> motu-uvf, I guess
[12:51] <asisak> seb128: now? MOTU-UVF as well
[12:51] <seb128> libcairo-perl Build-Depends on libtest-number-delta-perl
[12:51] <seb128> can we sync it to fix the FTBFS? ;)
[12:52] <StevenK> seb128: It sounds fine to me, it's impact looks to be minimal
[12:52] <seb128> thanks
[12:53] <seb128> soren: ok for you? ;)
[01:01] <StevenK> soren, Mithrandir: virtualbox uploading
[01:12] <soren> seb128: Huh?
[01:13] <soren> seb128: If it's kbuild, sure.
[01:16] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Can I sweet talk you into pushing virtualbox through NEW? :-)
[01:27] <seb128> soren:
 libcairo-perl Build-Depends on libtest-number-delta-perl
[01:27] <seb128>  can we sync it to fix the FTBFS? ;)
[01:28] <seb128> soren: libcairo-perl has been synced on Debian but libtest-number-delta-perl is not available in Ubuntu yet
[01:30] <Mithrandir> StevenK: preferably not, I'm in the middle of something a bit urgent.
[01:32] <StevenK> Maybe I'll sweet talk seb128. :-)
[01:33] <seb128> StevenK: is that something easy to review? ;)
[01:36] <soren> seb128: Sure.
[01:43] <StevenK> seb128: Hopefully. It passed Debian's NEW for main, so there shouldn't be anything to drastic in it
[01:44] <seb128> k
[02:21] <seb128> StevenK: virtualbox accepted to universe
[02:23] <StevenK> seb128: Yay, thanks
[02:32] <seb128> iwj: could you teach autopkgtest to not file duplicates?
[02:32] <seb128> bug #127986
[02:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127986 in libelf "gutsy/amd64: ftbfs / autopkgtest failure" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127986
[02:32] <seb128> bug #128022
[02:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128022 in libelf "gutsy/amd64: ftbfs / autopkgtest failure" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128022
[02:34] <iwj> seb128: it's supposed to.
[02:35] <seb128> bug #136986 also
[02:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136986 in libelf "autopkgtest gutsy libelf: erroneous package! (dup-of: 127986)" [High,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136986
[02:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127986 in libelf "gutsy/amd64: ftbfs / autopkgtest failure" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127986
[02:35] <seb128> I've just dupped those
[02:37] <iwj> Bear with me, and it's probably not worth doing much about it yourself since if it's doing this lots I should fix them all up in batch mode.
[02:37] <seb128> doesn't look like it's doing that a lot
[02:37] <seb128> I only spotted those
[02:38] <iwj> OIC those bug reports are the ones I forwarded manually.
[02:38] <iwj> I'm afraid it can't see those when it looks for duplicates.
[02:39] <seb128> ok, so we should keep the new one and close the ones you filed manually as dups?
[02:40] <iwj> Yes.  I'll do that.
[02:40] <seb128> in fact you sent many bugs twice
[02:40] <iwj> Yes.
[02:41] <iwj> It was getting so I couldn't remember which were dupes and I didn't have any useful record.
[02:41] <iwj> That's why I automated it.  But sorry about the stuff from before.
[02:41] <seb128> that's alright
[02:41] <seb128> http://tinyurl.com/2t57hz has a list of autopkgtest sorted by product if you want
[02:41] <seb128> it's easy to spot duplicates from it
[02:41] <seb128> if somebody wants to clean those ;)
[02:43] <iwj> Yes, that should be fixed up.  Also the others should be milestoned.
[02:43] <iwj> I'll take care of it.
[02:43] <iwj> Thanks and sorry to cause you extra work.
[02:44] <seb128> no problem ;)
[03:00] <dholbach> mako: CC meeting?
[03:01] <Riddell> mdke: are you getting e-mailed about all my kubuntu-members ppa uploads?
[03:05] <StevenK> seb128: Could I also sweet-talk you into promoting libhangul, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibhangul ?
[03:06] <StevenK> infinity: Ping, once more with feeling.
[03:13] <seb128> StevenK: done
[03:13] <StevenK> seb128: Thanks
[03:13] <seb128> you're welcome
[03:32] <StevenK> Hrm. virtualbox doesn't appear in P-a-s.
[03:34] <stgraber> asac: I'm at school, I'll sync and test it a bit later
[03:34] <asac> stgraber: thanks.
[03:48] <seb128> Riddell: does kpdf uses poppler in gutsy?
[03:50] <iwj> Is there an (unofficial) freeze ?  What do people think of the idea of me uploading libc with the ldconfig wrapper which arranges to run ldconfig just once, using dpkg triggers ?
[03:55] <Treenaks> iwj: only if you also do the fonts + fc-cache ;)
[03:56] <seb128> iwj: I don't think there is any freeze official or not at the moment, no real opinion about the trigger, I would say better to do it now than later
[03:57] <ogra> ++
[03:57] <ogra> we wont have a freeze afaik
[03:57] <iwj> That was my feeling (or I wouldn't have asked, really).
[03:57] <ogra> but should solve milestone bugs
[03:58] <iwj> It's a nice small diff and I'm reasonably confident about it provide I wasn't told lies about ldconfig ...
[03:58] <ogra> (and i guess the dailies should stay somewhat useable, since they were pointed to in the announcement)
[03:58] <iwj> Right, as you say.
[03:59] <iwj> I don't think this will break the dailies.
[04:01] <Riddell> seb128: not currently, it didn't work with the old version we have, now we have a 0.6 beta I can try and port the poppler patch again
[04:01] <Riddell> iwj: there's no freeze, just try to fix more than you break
[04:02] <seb128> Riddell: ok, I was wondering because there was a bug that looked a poppler issue where the submitter wrote that kpdf works correctly
[04:02] <Riddell> seb128: so it probably is a poppler issue in that case
[04:02] <seb128> right
[04:03] <seb128> thanks
[04:03] <Riddell> seb128: did you test the gtk flash initialisation patch?
[04:03] <seb128> Riddell: with opera yes
[04:04] <Riddell> seb128: did it work?
[04:04] <seb128> yes
[04:04] <Riddell> seb128: excellent, is it uploaded?
[04:04] <seb128> and acroread starts again also
[04:04] <Riddell> ooh, bonus
[04:04] <seb128> yes, I did upload on friday afternoon
[04:04] <Riddell> seb128: great, I'll try kdebase with our gtk patch removed then
[04:05] <iwj> Riddell: Right.  I was thinking I might clean up some of the easier autopkgtest ftbfs's.
[04:28] <soren> Um.... I've got pkg-create-dbgsym installed in my sbuild chroot, and the build logs shows that they're created, but they don't end up in my $cwd.. Is there a magical setting to tweak somewhere?
[04:38] <sits> how do you rebuild a deb without a patch when the deb is using quilt?
[04:39] <seb128> sits: comment the corresponding line in debian/patches/series?
[04:41] <sits> seb128: hmm ok let's give that a go
[04:44] <sits> and with that tip I now realise that the patch in question was already disabled...
[04:59] <sits> hmm no joy. I just can't get the hang of this deb/quilt business. My network manager problem will just have to stay for now
[05:00] <seb128> sits: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
[05:00] <seb128> sits: you have a basic example of quilt usage on this page, should be enough to add or edit a patch
[05:01] <sits> hmm
[05:09] <Keybuk> Metal Singer Required [...]  # Have a good ear for rhythm, tonality and diversity.
[05:09] <Spads> DOES NOT COMPUTE
[05:09] <Keybuk> clearly Jono doesn't realise the inherent contradiction in his requirements
[05:09] <pygi> :D
[05:09] <highvoltage> how does one "sing" metal?
[05:10] <Spads> http://zork.net/~sneakums/fortunes/sneakums/542 <-- Keybuk
[05:10] <Keybuk> Spads: "there is good service on all lines, except the Circle line which is delayed as usual"
[05:11] <Keybuk> the sound of everybody in a packed underground station laughing is quite extraordinary
[05:11] <Spads> Keybuk: "We'll be delayed here at Gloucester Road for a few minutes, but you take what you can get when you ride the District line"
[05:13] <mathiaz> kylem: did you manage to build a kernel with the latest apparmor ?
[05:13] <mathiaz> kylem: or when will be the next kernel upload ?
[05:13] <kylem> today. and yes.
[05:14] <mathiaz> kylem: According to the git tree, the kernel still provides apparmor-modules-2.0
[05:14] <mathiaz> kylem: actually, it's l-u-m that provied apparmor-modules-2.0.
[05:15] <kylem> yes.
[05:15] <kylem> because i haven't pushed it yet, because i had to update unionfs.
[05:16] <mathiaz> kylem: will the next l-u-m provide apparmor-modules-2.1 ?
[05:16] <kylem> yes.
[05:16] <mathiaz> kylem: excellent.
[05:37] <Hobbsee> seb128: if you make a script for uvf exceptions, i will shoot you.
[05:37] <seb128> Hobbsee: hey
[05:37] <seb128> Hobbsee: why? ;)
[05:37] <Hobbsee> or at least, if you ever make it public.
[05:38] <Hobbsee> maybe it can have a disclaimer: "by using this script, i will actually look at the changes, and i will not mass-file UVFe's.
[05:38] <StevenK> "Lest the motu-uvf / ubuntu-release team brutally slaughter me."
[05:39] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: if that happens, we'll mass-reject them and strip the person of their groups, then roll them in tar and feathers and parade them around.
[05:39] <StevenK> My way sounds much more fun.
[05:40] <jdong> hmm... if I wanted to install a Gutsy today, should I install the latest tribe or daily? :)
[05:40] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ROFL!
[05:40] <jdong> i.e. is today's daily working :D
[05:41] <Hobbsee> seb128: because i've seen people misuse the requestsync script as well.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, well.  we have to get down to some slaughtering of abusive people.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> at some point
[05:41] <seb128> Hobbsee: well, better to have a tool standardizing the format to use, etc
[05:42] <Hobbsee> seb128: seriously, you're a core dev.  just ask.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> oh wait, that's after i push the next component of the master plan.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> seb128: depending on whther the decision is to leave a paper trail or not, you can probably just ask as a first step, and we'll say "sure", or "can we see more info on that, eg diffstat, changelog" or "no, you're on crack"
[05:42] <seb128> Hobbsee: right, that's what I've been doing today, I asked
[05:43] <Hobbsee> seb128: the point at where you're filing mass diffstats while knowing that there's no point...suggests that our proceedure is too complex
[05:43] <seb128> not too complex
[05:43] <seb128> there is just lot of things to do
[05:43] <Hobbsee> seb128: badly worded.  that it's causing needless work.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> seb128: really, we should only need the stuff if we cant see an immediate "yes, we should do this"
[05:44] <seb128> and I would like to have something that does the diffstat, changelog diff, etc for you
[05:44] <seb128> right
[05:44] <Hobbsee> true.  i just hope that doesnt lead to people filing it without looking.
[05:45] <Hobbsee> seb128: i have various plans for the motu-uvf team.  one step in world domination at a time.
[05:45] <StevenK> I'm not sure I want to be bent to Hobbsee's will.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> StevenK: sure you do!
[05:46] <StevenK> Eek
[05:46] <StevenK> There's imagery I don't need.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:51] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[05:52] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it was more a "you'll bend voluntarily, or you'll get attacked by the Long Pointy Stick of DOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! first"
[05:53] <StevenK> Ah. Bend, or break. :-P
[05:54] <soren> StevenK: Hm. VirtualBox seems to be working nicely.
[05:55] <Mithrandir> StevenK: you might not have a choice.
[05:55] <stgraber> asac: package is building
[05:56] <soren> StevenK: Gah, I jinxed it.
[05:57] <StevenK> soren: Hmph
[05:57] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: oh, he has a choice.  to cooperate peacefully, or to cooperate by force.  that is a choice :P
[05:59] <iwj> Boggle
[05:59] <iwj> /work/AutomatedTesting-packages/build/tcl8.4-8.4.15/unix/../compat/memcmp.c:55: warning: dereferencing 'void *' pointer
[05:59] <cjwatson> d-i> edit the postinst, make it exit 0, run it again
[06:05] <ogra> hrm
[06:05] <asac> stgraber: drum roll ...
[06:16] <sits> hey asac
[06:16] <sits> asac: do you know of any obvious network manager dhcp issues?
[06:16] <Hobbsee> greetings, asac
[06:16] <asac> Hi Hobbsee
[06:16] <asac> sits: well ... what chipset?
[06:17] <Hobbsee> asac: FWIW, i tried the iwl3945, instead of the ipw3945 module earlier.  no dice.
[06:17] <sits> asac: ipw3945
[06:17] <iwj> Jesus H Christ.  tcl has a memcmp.c which (a) it is using but which (b) IS BUGGY.
[06:17] <sits> asac: no WEP/WPA
[06:17] <asac> sits: yeah ... its a driver issue
[06:18] <sits> asac: hng
[06:18] <asac> sits: if you want you could try my ipw3945 kernel module branch
[06:18] <sits> asac: is it just racy when the interface is brought up?
[06:18] <sits> asac: (yeah sure I'll try your branch if it's prebuilt)
[06:18] <asac> sits: well ... there are multiple issues
[06:19] <sits> asac: good grief
[06:19] <asac> sits: no not prebuild ... https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/intellinuxwireless/ipw3945.asac
[06:19] <asac> i have no idea how to ship it prebuild
[06:19] <asac> just want a few more confirms before submitting this patch to the kernel-team
[06:19] <sits> asac: can I build your module without the kernel source to hand?
[06:20] <asac> Hobbsee: you wanna try the branch above?
[06:20] <asac> sits: i think you just need -headers
[06:20] <Hobbsee> asac: not currently, but perhaps later.
[06:20] <sits> asac: that's good enough
[06:20] <Hobbsee> it does need to work at uni, in some form or another, too.
[06:20] <asac> sits: make IEEE80211_IGNORE_DUPLICATE=y SHELL=/bin/bash
[06:20] <asac> sits: instdie the branch
[06:21] <asac> Hobbsee: thanks ... ping me ... or just try when you have time (read above)
[06:21] <Hobbsee> asac: how do you revert back to the original?
[06:21] <asac> Hobbsee: i think you have to copy the ipw3945.ko module somewhere as a backup
[06:21] <Hobbsee> asac: ah right.  will remember that.
[06:21] <sits> asac: bzr checkout intructions?
[06:22] <mantiena-baltix> hi all
[06:22] <Hobbsee> sits: bzr get <address as listed above>
[06:22] <asac> sits: bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/intellinuxwireless/ipw3945.asac
[06:22] <asac> yeah ... or get ... or checkout ... or clone?
[06:22] <sits> python errors
[06:22] <asac> python errors?
[06:22] <sits> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.KeyError: 77
[06:22] <Hobbsee> asac: didnt think you could checkout if you werent a part of the team.
[06:22] <asac> sits: are you running gutsy?
[06:22] <sits> let me try again
[06:23] <sits> asac: yes
[06:23] <Hobbsee> unless it's a read-only checkout, which i thought was something else
[06:23] <asac> Hobbsee: i think they should all work ... but usually i just do bzr branch
[06:23] <sits> neither branch nor get seem to work
[06:24] <Riddell> mvo: ping
[06:24] <mvo> hello Riddell
[06:24] <Riddell> mvo: knetworkmanager in feisty is now network-manager-kde in gutsy
[06:24] <asac> sits: did you install anything manually at some point?
[06:24] <Riddell> mvo: how do I get DistUpgrade to install the other?
[06:24] <Riddell> mvo: both packages provide the other, the name was swapped around
[06:24] <mvo> Riddell: the easiest is probably a transitional package (empty knetworkmanager)
[06:25] <asac> sits: haven't seen a Key Error ... maybe its a bad bzr plugin?
[06:25] <sits> asac: not that I'm aware of
[06:25] <sits> just installed bzr this very moment
[06:25] <mvo> Riddell: just create a empty knetworkmanager package in the network-manager-kde build
[06:25] <asac> sits: try bzr plugins
[06:25] <Riddell> mvo: and remove the Provides?
[06:25] <sits> I tried quoting the URI but the same
[06:25] <sits>  /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/launchpad
[06:25] <sits>         Launchpad.net integration plugin for Bazaar
[06:25] <asac> sits: ok is debian-python installed?
[06:25] <sits> probably not...
[06:26] <asac> aeh python-debian
[06:26] <sits> hmm space is going to get tight...
[06:26] <asac> python-debian is just 48K
[06:26] <sits> ah ok
[06:26] <mvo> Riddell: yes
[06:27] <sits> asac: same problem
[06:27] <sits> (with python-debian installed)
[06:27] <asac> sits: ah i think its python-pycurl
[06:27] <sits> ah you're right
[06:27] <Riddell> mvo: ok.  also how can we get kubuntu-restricted-extras into app-install-data?
[06:28] <sits>    File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/transport/http/_pycurl.py", line 179, in _get_full
[06:28] <sits>     self._curl_perform(curl, header)
[06:28] <sits>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/transport/http/_pycurl.py", line 269, in _curl_perform
[06:28] <sits>     e[0] , _pycurl_errors.errorcode[e[0] ] , e, url)
[06:28] <sits> KeyError: 77
[06:28] <Hobbsee> Riddell: binary or source?
[06:28] <mvo> Riddell: sure, I can add it right away
[06:28] <asac> sits: do you have a minimal gutsy install?
[06:28] <sits> asac: it's fairly standard off the CD then updated yes
[06:28] <sits> it's not super slim - it was  standard GNOME install
[06:29] <asac> well please ask on #bzr ... they probably know it right away
[06:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: .desktop
[06:30] <asac> sits: sorry for the inconvenience ... but i never had anyone who couldn't run a basic bzr branch
[06:30] <sits> asac: oh for a HTTP'd tarball : )
[06:30] <Hobbsee> Riddell: errr....
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Riddell: just as long as you're aware that k-r-e source doesnt exist anymore
[06:31] <Riddell> it doesn't?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> it's in u-r-e
[06:31] <Riddell> Hobbsee: the binary package seems to be
[06:31] <Hobbsee> as is the x-r-e binary
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Riddell: the binary package is in u-r-e, k-r-e as a source package no longer exists.
[06:32] <mvo> Riddell, Hobbsee: the binary name is all that g-a-i cares for (and adept_installer)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> mvo: ah, excellent.
[06:32] <mvo> Riddell: it should be available in the next upload
[06:32] <Riddell> thanks
[06:33] <asac> sits: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/ipw3945-1.2.1.asac.tar.gz
[06:34] <mantiena-baltix> tormod, hi
[06:34] <mantiena-baltix> tormod, are you responsible for grub in ubuntu ?
[06:34] <tormod> mantiena-baltix: no, that would be the core-dev team.
[06:35] <sits> asac: wish me luck
[06:35] <asac> sits: you need the kernel headers installed ... at best install module-assistant and then run module-assistant prepare
[06:35] <tormod> mantiena-baltix: I just prepared the last versions.
[06:35] <asac> sits: luck?
[06:35] <mantiena-baltix> tormod, yea, I saw your name in changelog :)
[06:35] <asac> sits: build succeeded?
[06:35] <sits> asac: it's compiled I'm about to rmmod the old one
[06:35] <tormod> mantiena-baltix: you can still try asking :)
[06:36] <mantiena-baltix> :) there is one, pretty importat, but very easy to fix bug in Ubuntu's grub - bug #8\3690
[06:36] <mantiena-baltix> bug #83690
[06:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 83690 in grub "update-grub hardcodes to 'Ubuntu'" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83690
[06:37] <asac> sits: ok cool :)
[06:37] <mantiena-baltix> lsb_release should be used instead of hardcoding Ubuntu in grub's menu.
[06:38] <mantiena-baltix> tormod,  title=`/usr/bin/lsb_release -s --description`
[06:38] <asac> stgraber: any info how to best replace the old module with the new one? i think one has to restart the daemon as well, right?
[06:39] <sits> bad news
[06:41] <sits> asac are you there?
[06:41] <sits> asac: bad news no change
[06:41] <sits> it still doesn't get a dhcp lease
[06:42] <tormod> mantiena-baltix: that should better be fixed in Debian, so that Ubuntu also doesn't have to change it :)
[06:42] <sits> dmesg says
[06:42] <sits> ipw3945: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945 Network Connection driver for Linux, 1.2.2mp
[06:42] <asac> sits: thats not the module i provided
[06:42] <sits> ah fish
[06:42] <sits> hang on
[06:43] <asac> mine is 1.2.1 atm
[06:43] <mantiena-baltix> tormod, yea
[06:45] <cypherbios> hi mvo, did you receive my email?
[06:49] <mantiena-baltix> yea, new packages search page and results at http://packages.debian.org looks great
[06:49] <mantiena-baltix> impresive - debtags are also integrated ! http://packages.debian.org/sid/grub
[06:51] <sits> test
[06:52] <sits> asac: are you sure the module you gave me was correct?
[06:53] <asac> sits: look in ipw3945.c
[06:53] <asac> there is a ipw3945.c:#define IPW3945_VERSION "1.2.1"
[06:53] <asac> you see that?
[06:54] <stgraber> asac: ok, I have the results from my tests (sorry I'm not at home so I had to simulate a public hotspot using a laptop+madwifi)
[06:55] <stgraber> asac: that seems pretty good (except some NM crash due to stress I think)
[06:55] <stgraber> asac: I can connect to WPA, then switch to public without any problem
[06:56] <asac> stgraber: do you still run into stale/deadlocked states?
[06:56] <asac> stgraber: you can run NetworkManager from the src/ directory directly with gdb
[06:56] <asac> e.g. gdb .libs/lt-NetworkManager
[06:56] <asac> then
[06:56] <asac> run --no-daemon
[06:56] <sits> #define IPW3945_VERSION "1.2.1" VD VM VP VR VQ
[06:56] <sits> the original is much smaller than what I currently have
[06:56] <asac> and when it crashes, please give me the backtrace
[06:57] <asac> stgraber: what does sits need to do to load the module?
[06:58] <asac> sits: how did you install/load the module?
[06:58] <asac> sits: the make command doesn't copy it to the right directory (in case you assumed it does)
[06:58] <sits> mv the module in to the main tree, run depmod then use modprobe
[06:58] <sits> rename old module
[06:59] <asac> sits: did you restart the regulatory daemon as well?
[06:59] <stgraber> asac: I just unloaded everything, then did the following :
[06:59] <stgraber> wired -> WPA -> wired -> public -> WPA -> public -> wired -> public -> wired
[06:59] <sits> asac: that seemed to die at its own volution when the interface was shut down
[06:59] <asac> stgraber: how unloaded? just rmmod ipw3945?
[06:59] <asac> stgraber: great ... does the crash happen at that time?
[06:59] <stgraber> killed ipw3945d, rmmod ipw3945, modprobe ipw3945, /etc/dbus/event.d/*Network* stop/start
[06:59] <stgraber> asac: no
[07:00] <sits> asac: I will try again - I only renamed the old module
[07:00] <stgraber> asac: only thing I had was a delay once switching from public to wired (due to AP_SCAN 0 it seems)
[07:00] <asac> sits: yes ... try what stgraber says above
[07:00] <stgraber> asac: but only occured once on the two try I did
[07:00] <stgraber> (it was the first public -> wired switch, second went correctly)
[07:00] <asac> stgraber: well wpasupplicant has really high latency ... which is why we got the cannot connect issue
[07:01] <stgraber> imo, the NM+ipw3945 we currently have rocks, only thing that can be done at this point is trying to have something a bit faster
[07:01] <asac> yeah ... i am not sure why it takes so long ... i hope its just a wpasupplicant problem
[07:02] <asac> e.g. bad polling for something
[07:02] <asac> stgraber: ok thanks ... i just want one more who can confirm that things are rocking now ... then i will submit the ipw3045 patch to kernel team and upload new nm once they uploaded new lum
[07:02] <stgraber> it seems to try to associate 2 or 3 times before it works (looking at iwconfig, you see the ESSID, then the MAC, then the key is flickering 2-3 times, then you have the key+associated)
[07:03] <asac> stgraber: during what stage is that?
[07:03] <stgraber> hmm, end of stage2 I'd say (after the WPA config is sent to wpa_supplicant)
[07:04] <asac> ok ... so it takes time until nm gets the connect event ... after enable_network ... right?
[07:04] <stgraber> yes, but that's not NM fault
[07:04] <alex-weej> mvo: hey you there?
[07:05] <asac> stgraber: anyway since i see this long blocking of wpa for other drivers as well ... it appears to be driver unrelated
[07:05] <asac> or if in kernel the whole subsystem has an issue
[07:05] <stgraber> ok
[07:05] <stgraber> I have something strange with the hardware I have at home
[07:05] <asac> stgraber: just one thing ... how did you enable debugging?
[07:05] <stgraber> my Trendnet AP associate after the 3-4 try
[07:05] <asac> i want to setup a debuggingNM page
[07:05] <asac> with instructions on how to get kernel log messages
[07:05] <stgraber> when my Buffalo one (openwrt) associate the first time
[07:06] <stgraber> asac: load the driver with debug=1, modprobe ipw3945 debug=1
[07:06] <sits> asac: I'm sure it's loading the right module
[07:06] <sits> asac: modinfo shows the kernel it was compiled against has changed
[07:06] <stgraber> then : echo 6252 > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/ipw3945/debug_level
[07:06] <stgraber> that should enable most interesting debug detail
[07:07] <stgraber> debug output ends up in syslog
[07:07] <sits> asac: are you sure that the issue is module related? The card is definitely connecting to the AP and dhclient eth1 is working as expected...
[07:07] <asac> stgraber: what version does dmesg show for the module when you load it?
[07:07] <asac> sits: yes i am 99.9% sure
[07:07] <sits> asac: OK.
[07:08] <stgraber> asac: it doesn't give a version number, but modinfo says 1.2.1d
[07:09] <sits> modinfo here says:
[07:09] <sits> version:        1.2.2mp
[07:09] <sits> vermagic:       2.6.22-10-generic SMP mod_unload 586
[07:14] <asac> sits: hmm your version info is still the old one ... sorry ... now away for a few hours
[07:14] <asac> sport
[07:14] <asac> cu later
[07:14] <Luke> WPA-Enterprise doesn't work with Ubuntu (even Gutsy) at Purdue University and I'm talking with the head wifi IT guy to try to get it worked out. Who should I talk to on the Ubuntu side? I don't know enough about wifi to be able to pinpoint the problem.
[07:15] <asac> Luke: ping me tomorrow
[07:15] <mvo> alex-weej: yes
[07:16] <Mithrandir> Luke: asac would be your man, I believe.
[07:16] <alex-weej> mvo: i fixed up some more notification daemon theme goodness: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notification-daemon/+bug/136660
[07:16] <Luke> Mithrandir: thanks
[07:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136660 in notification-daemon "Patch to improve shaping and border rendering in uncomposited environment; add RGBA support for composited" [Undecided,New] 
[07:16] <alex-weej> mvo: how come the ubuntu theme isn't in its own package anyway?
[07:16] <Luke> asac: you around?
[07:16] <mvo> alex-weej: historical reasons
[07:16] <mvo> alex-weej: the current approach with the patch is a pita maintaing wise
[07:17] <alex-weej> yeah i'll bet
[07:17] <alex-weej> should i open a bug against making a new package then?
[07:17] <sits> asac: I don't think the problem is the driver in my case
[07:18] <mvo> alex-weej: its a bit late for this for gutsy, I will do a diff of the old and new tree for now to see what actually changed
[07:18] <alex-weej> mvo: it's really not that much... :/
[07:18] <mvo> alex-weej: but we totally should either get it into its own package or submit it upstream (later is probably better)
[07:18] <alex-weej> have the ubuntu theme upstream?
[07:19] <mvo> alex-weej: not much is good, as this means better chances to get it in :) (as its late in the release cycle)
[07:19] <alex-weej> ok, i can diff the patches if you want
[07:19] <mvo> alex-weej: yeah, it probably will have to be renamed to something like "yellow" :)
[07:19] <alex-weej> or i guess i could diff the theme.c's
[07:19] <alex-weej> save you some time
[07:19] <alex-weej> i'll go do that so you can see easier
[07:19] <mvo> alex-weej: that would be welcome
[07:20] <alex-weej> mvo: first and foremost though, it's a bug fix :P
[07:20] <sits> asac: I don't think the issue is the wifi driver
[07:21] <sits> asac: (in my case)
[07:21] <sits> asac: I've just grabbed my emergency PCMCIA card and I have exactly the same issue wrt to DHCP on that
[07:22] <mvo> alex-weej: :)
[07:23] <tonyyarusso> Say, is there an IRC channel where one could observe Archive admins processing packages from the NEW queue?
[07:26] <alex-weej> mvo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9101987/diff i don't know why there are loads of !'s in it...
[07:26] <alex-weej> it was a diff -p
[07:27] <Luke> asac: I've sent you an email about Purdue University wireless connectivity with NM if you wouldn't mind looking through it when you get a chance
[07:27] <alex-weej> all of the code outside of draw_border was copied verbatim from the standard theme
[07:27] <alex-weej> for the "enable_transparency" stuff
[07:28] <alex-weej> ah i see what the !s are for, clever
[07:28] <alex-weej> makes it more readable :o
[07:31] <mvo> alex-weej:  I'm more used to reading diff -u outputs TBH
[07:31] <alex-weej> i normally just do svn diff and don't look back, so i'm not used to diff options
[07:32] <glatzor> ping bryce
[07:33] <alex-weej> mvo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9102019/diffu ;)
[07:33] <mvo> alex-weej: thanks :)
[07:33] <cjwatson> svn diff defaults to -u
[07:33] <alex-weej> ah yeah
[07:34] <alex-weej> that looks more familiar
[07:34] <cjwatson> I suppose you might need to say -pu if you're using -x
[07:35] <alex-weej> i did pu anyway
[07:44] <mvo> alex-weej: -	draw_rounded_window(mask_cr, 0,1,w,h-2, windata);
[07:44] <mvo> +	draw_rounded_window(mask_cr, 0, 0, w, h, windata); <- that looks suspicious, the small offset was added to add a small space between two notifications
[07:44] <mvo> alex-weej: same some lines earlier
[07:44] <alex-weej> mvo: what's the intention, 1 pixel all the way around?
[07:45] <alex-weej> in the original draw_border we were drawing the background with draw_rounded_window(cr, 0, 0, w, h, windata);
[07:45] <alex-weej> that's what threw me off i guess
[07:46] <mvo> alex-weej: that might be a bug in the old code, I just noticed that the update does no longer have the small gap between two notification that used to be there
[07:47] <alex-weej> mvo: well we can probably put it back in, but it only actually affects the stackable notifications (i.e. the ones that aren't attached)
[07:47] <alex-weej> i'd say the best ultimate place for spacing code would be in the positioning code
[07:48] <mvo> alex-weej: I agree, it should be fixed there
[07:49] <zasf> mvo: I have a question about bug #134918 if you have 1 minute
[07:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134918 in restricted-manager "Misleading error message - software source for package is not enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134918
[07:49] <alex-weej> yay, stack.c
[07:50] <mvo> zasf: sure
[07:50] <zasf> mvo: is there a way to know wich repository a package belongs to if that repo is not enabled??
[07:52] <mvo> zasf: not in general, but we have that information in /usr/share/app-install/desktop for a lot of packages
[07:52] <zasf> mvo: ok, that's what gnome-app-install uses for codecs I guess
[07:52] <mvo> zasf: the strange thing about this bug is that restricted should be enabled by default and repository information should be availalbe too
[07:53] <mvo> zasf: I read in the report that you tried to reproduce it?
[07:53] <zasf> mvo: yes
[07:53] <zasf> mvo: tribe5 workes fine here
[07:53] <zasf> mvo: no "sources need to be reloaded" issue
[07:54] <zasf> mvo: not talking about the reported issue with nvidia-glx or nvidia-glx-new, restricted-manager has a problem wich bcm43xx-fwcutter
[07:54] <mvo> zasf: a problem in what sense?
[07:55] <zasf> that's in universe and that's why we have this message "the software source for bcm43xx-fwcutter is not enabled"
[07:55] <zasf> how does r-m know about bcm43xx-fwcutter if user has not universe enabled?
[07:56] <mvo> zasf: hm, I see. r-m has it hardcoded, it should get promoted to restricted then
[07:57] <zasf> it would be nice if r-m could call gnome-app-install or other app (command-not-found?) and get info about packages whose repos are not enabled
[07:57] <zasf> that would be smarter and would reuse g-a-i code to let user enable universe
[07:59] <glatzor> zasf: not really. non-graphical applications have to be added manually to g-a-i too
[07:59] <glatzor> zasf: the number of har coded packages is quite small for restricted manager, right?
[08:00] <zasf> mvo: r-m would face the same problem if user disables restricted and then wants to enable fglrx
[08:00] <zasf> mvo: but i see this nice thing here /usr/share/app-install/desktop/fglrx-driver.desktop
[08:00] <zasf> mvo: yes the number is small at the moment
[08:05] <mvo> zasf: I think the best way for r-m would be to run gnome-app-install and ensuring that a desktop file is available for all packages. this way it gets repository enabling code for free
[08:06] <mvo> zasf: oh, you said that earlier :)
[08:06] <zasf> mvo: hehe nice :)
[08:07] <mvo> zasf: could you add a excerpt from our conversation to the bug page please?
[08:07] <zasf> mvo: I'll update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedManagerImprovements2
[08:08] <zasf> mvo: so that I let pitti know when he's back
[08:09] <mvo> zasf: what is this bit about command-not-found in the spec? if you need anything from c-n-f, that could probably be arranged
[08:09] <zasf> mvo: that was a first idea I had
[08:10] <glatzor> zasf: mvo: adding a dialog using python-aptsources also provides a simple mechanism to enable components.
[08:10] <zasf> mvo: but I think g-a-i is much better
[08:10] <glatzor> zasf: mvo:  python-aptsources also provides a simple mechanism to enable components.
[08:10] <glatzor> zasf: mvo: it should not be hard to add a corresponding dialog to r-m
[08:11] <zasf> glatzor: yes but the problem is that in case of bcm43xx-fwcutter r-m doesn't know wich repo it belongs to
[08:12] <zasf> glatzor: that would happen for nvidia or fglrx as well if user disables restricted repository
[08:12] <mvo> glatzor: not hard, but we have all this in g-a-i already, so it seems easier to call that (also I'm not sure if we have a way to control it yet)
[08:12] <glatzor> zasf: you will always have to hardcode this information.
[08:12] <mvo> glatzor: and all the meta-data is in one place then
[08:13] <zasf> yes, g-a-i has its own data, r-m calls g-a-i
[08:13] <zasf> still g-a-i duplicates informations.. like c-n-f does
[08:15] <glatzor> mvo: zasf: in which way do you want to call g-a-i?
[08:15] <glatzor> mvo: adding another activation style?
[08:17] <glatzor> mvo: it seems to be cleaner to just reuse the (Core)ApplicationMenu and aptsources
[08:20] <mvo> glatzor: right, that is a good way of doing it
[08:22] <alex-weej> mvo: i've hacked stack.c to pretend that there is an extra n pixels on the bottom and right of each notification
[08:22] <alex-weej> that gives decent results
[08:22] <mvo> alex-weej: cool, thanks.
[08:23] <zasf> glatzor:would you mind providing me a small example as a start point?
[08:23] <glatzor> zasf: of course. one moment
[08:24] <zasf> glatzor: thanks
[08:24] <mvo> glatzor: tests/testAppInstall.py might be something to get a idea (also its quite limited)
[08:25] <glatzor> zasf: the component activation is done in gnome-app-install-helper
[08:26] <alex-weej> mvo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notification-daemon/+bug/137095
[08:26] <alex-weej> mvo: you can change it to 1px, it's just #define'd at the top
[08:26] <alex-weej> easy hack for now, right?
[08:27] <alex-weej> whoops i forgot the diff
[08:29] <alex-weej> sorted
[08:33] <mvo> alex-weej: looking
[08:35] <alex-weej> mvo: when upstream fixes the overlapping bottom panel problem it'll rock even more
[08:35] <alex-weej> btw i forgot to add, i tested it for different stack orientations too and it's fine
[08:38] <geser> keescook: Hi, have you time to sponsor bug #136596?
[08:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136596 in fetchmail "[Merge]  fetchmail 6.3.8-8ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136596
[08:39] <zasf> glatzor: ok, but I would like g-a-i to call it for me in case he needs to
[08:40] <zasf> glatzor: so that I don't have to hardcode a package-component dict
[08:43] <geser> calc: Hi, when you have time can you sponsor the debdiff for bug #130583?
[08:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130583 in xmlsec1 "libxmlsec1-nss missing pkgconfig file" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130583
[08:51] <alex-weej> mvo: verdict?
[08:54] <mvo> alex-weej: looks fine
[08:54] <alex-weej> mvo: ok, so does that mean the first patch can go in? :D
[08:54] <LaserJock> mvo: when you hve a minute I've got a couple questions about g-a-i
[08:56] <mvo> LaserJock: sure, fire
[08:57] <LaserJock> mvo: ok, first. I've had several people now in #edubuntu that have problems with g-a-i when they don't have a network connection when they install
[08:57] <LaserJock> mvo: they end up with only the CD as an available repo, but apps still show up in g-a-i so they try to install them and get a cryptic error
[08:58] <LaserJock> saying that i386 isn't supported
[08:58] <mvo> LaserJock: oh, ok. I think I know the reasons for this one
[08:58] <LaserJock> I just wondered if you had seen that before, etc.
[09:01] <mvo> LaserJock: I milestoned this bug for tribe-6, its not easy to fix unfortunately, but I think I have a way that should work
[09:01] <LaserJock> LaserJock: thank you
[09:01] <LaserJock> mvo: second question, how would I go about having g-a-i install a metapackage?
[09:02] <mvo> LaserJock: what use-case do you have in mind?
[09:02] <LaserJock> will having it ship a .desktop suffice? or is there a more elegant solution
[09:03] <mvo> LaserJock: generally add a .desktop file to the app-install-data-ubuntu repository in bzr should be fine (there is menu-data-additional for this)
[09:03] <mvo> LaserJock: does that sound sufficient?
[09:03] <LaserJock> for the Edubuntu Addon CD I have a few (~5) metapackages that I'd like to show in the g-a-i  menu that pops up
[09:03] <ion_> Yay for ldconfig using dpkg triggers.
[09:04] <mvo> LaserJock: that is going to be interessting, I think we haven't done cdrom repository dependencies yet :)
[09:04] <LaserJock> mvo: ah, so I could just put  the .desktop in my app-install-data-edubuntu package
[09:04] <alex-weej> ion_: what does that do?
[09:04] <mvo> LaserJock: yes, or into the main app-install-data-ubuntu pacakge
[09:04] <LaserJock> mvo: I already have an -edubuntu one so it's probably less confusing to put it there
[09:05] <mvo> LaserJock: sure
[09:05] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm gonna have to patch debian-cd again though
[09:05] <LaserJock> oh well
[09:05] <ion_> alex-weej: Instead of running ldconfig in each library packages postinst, it gets run once after all packages have been processed.
[09:05] <alex-weej> ion_: speedy!
[09:06] <mvo> LaserJock: its entirely possible that g-a-i will not support that cdrom repo thing out of the box, but fixing it should not be hard, so please nag me about it (or file a bug). its late here in my TZ though :)
[09:07] <LaserJock> mvo: k, thanks
[09:25] <croSmile1> How can I can i find out when was a certain window last active using xprop?
[09:30] <ion_> iwj: ldconfig doesnt seem to call ldconfig.real at all. libc6 2.6.1-1ubuntu2
[09:42] <iwj> ion_: What does it do instead ?
[09:42] <iwj> OMG
[09:44] <ion_> iwj: Bug #137129
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137129 in glibc "ldconfig never calls ldconfig.real" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137129
[09:44] <iwj> Yes, I just spotted.
[09:48] <cjwatson>  && dpkg --compare-versions "$DPKG_RUNNING_VERSION" ge '1.14.5ubuntu10~~'
[09:48] <cjwatson> blink, two tildes?
[09:48] <iwj> Yep.
[09:48] <ion_> 1.14.5ubuntu10~~ < 1.14.5ubuntu10~
[09:49] <cjwatson> I know, but ... why?
[09:49] <Mithrandir> we need a char that always compares as lower, but is not legal in a version number.
[09:49] <Mithrandir> like \~
[09:49] <iwj> He knows that.
[09:49] <Mithrandir> so \~ < ~
[09:49] <iwj> Oh, I see.
[09:49] <iwj> :-P
[09:50] <cjwatson> there was never a 1.14.5ubuntu10~ in Ubuntu AFAICS, let alone 1.14.5ubuntu10~~ - test version on iwj's scratch system? :-)
[09:50] <ion_> Thats what i assumed. :-)
[09:50] <iwj> cjwatson: Yep.
[09:51] <iwj> ion_: Thanks very much for bringing that to my attention.
[09:51] <iwj> *cough*
[09:51] <ion_> :-)
[09:51] <iwj> I did test it but of course as Scott told me (truthfully as it turns out) not running ldconfig doesn't actually break anything ...
[09:52] <iwj> 1ubuntu3 is on its way through the machinery now.
[10:08] <pygi> kwwii, you are alive!
[10:08] <kwwii> moin
[10:08] <kwwii> actually I am about to go to sleep
[10:10] <noah__> Chipzz: it's been like that since 2001
[10:10] <Chipzz> heh
[10:11] <Chipzz> and no-one bothered to update it? :P
[10:11] <mdke> Riddell: yeah; as part of community-council I guess
[10:12] <dobey> Chipzz: that's just wildcard matching in whois
[10:15] <ion_> noah: Id say *much* longer, but perhaps im wrong.
[10:15] <alex-weej> any HAL experts wanna help me figure out why volume.ignore = TRUE is being set on all of my external drives?
[10:15] <noah__> ion_: you're probably right.
[10:16] <noah__> Chipzz: it's not microsoft's fault.
[10:17] <noah__> Chipzz: other people are putting up NS records for their domains which contain microsoft.com
[10:19] <Riddell> mdke: kiko says he's getting that stopped
[10:24] <Chipzz> even then, there's such a thing as reverse dns, which is authorative...
[10:24] <Chipzz> why isn't that just?
[10:24] <Chipzz> err
[10:24] <Chipzz> *used
[10:25] <dobey> Chipzz: it is. none of those are a dns record for microsoft.com
[10:26] <dobey> whois does wildcard matching of hostnames
[11:10] <smallfoot-> make GRUB or the bootloader setup/install or whatever of Ubuntu more fail-safe
[11:10] <smallfoot-> ubuntu said "error" when it insatlled grub, so i had to install Windows XP and use that instead of Ubuntu :(
[11:21] <bryce> geser: it is a holiday for keescook in the U.S.; I believe he is preparing for a barbeque
[11:24] <Chipzz> bryce: I have a question; there seem to be a lot of x libraries depending on x11-common; yet, I can not see one single reason for them to do so
[11:24] <Chipzz> could you explain why?
[11:25] <Chipzz> (you can use these libs perfectly without an X-server installed, like X over ssh and such, in which case you don't need x11-common)
[11:26] <geser> bryce: ah, thanks for the info
[11:26] <bryce> Chipzz: I'm not totally sure, as that precedes my time, however I would assume it to be legacy from the monolithic-X days
[11:27] <bryce> Chipzz: probably not something I'd feel comfortable messing around with this late in the Gutsy cycle, but if it causes any issues, it might be good to look into for Hungry
[11:27] <Chipzz> x11-common contains a) dexconf stuff, b) some x-session stuff (which btw is also in the xinit package), and rgb.txt
[11:28] <bryce> possibly it's just some meta-dependency
[11:28] <Chipzz> a and b are not necessary for remote X use cases only
[11:28] <Chipzz> yeah
[11:28] <Chipzz> well anyway, just pointing this out
[11:28] <Chipzz> Hobbsee was wondering what pulled in x11-common the other day too
[11:29] <Chipzz> bryce: what's more of annoyance is the double files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
[11:29] <bryce> I'd like to gain stronger packaging-fu before I start reorganizing the packaging dependencies, but I definitely agree they need to be thought out a bit more carefully
[11:30] <Chipzz> uhu
[11:30] <mekius> hey, making a custom live cd and it is about 1GB, when i try to use ubiquity to install after booting the live cd, it gets to 66% and gives an error that it can't copy a file, i am using gutsy as a base, is this known?
[11:31] <mekius> or may i have messed something up?
[11:31] <mekius> i am using an iso in qemu with a virtual disk image
[11:31] <mekius> so errors in media don't really apply
[11:38] <mekius> nevermind
[11:39] <mdke> Riddell: cool; it's not particularly annoying but it seems natural that the uploader should be the one to get build messages
[11:39] <holycow> hi guys
[11:39] <holycow> any people here from the upgrade testing team?
[11:39] <holycow> or do they have their own chan?
[11:41] <holycow> well even if there aren't any
[11:41] <holycow> congrats to all the devs
[11:41] <holycow> the gutsy dist-upgrade so far looks flawless even at this early stage
[11:41] <holycow> you guys really ratcheted up the quality there
[11:41] <holycow> its very impressive considering such tight deltas off of debian unstable