[02:19] <LaserJock> moquist: how's moodle coming?
[02:20] <moquist> LaserJock: the one in REVU should be good.
[02:20] <moquist> LaserJock: I haven't done anything with metapackaging yet.
[02:20] <LaserJock> k
[02:20] <moquist> LaserJock: just 'apt-get install mysql-server' or 'apt-get install postgresql' first. ;)
[02:25] <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
[02:25] <jsgotangco> hi!
[02:25] <jsgotangco> good morning
[02:31] <LaserJock> moquist: ok now with the new package and no DB installed I get something about can't find pg_lsclusters you must create PostgreSQL database manual
[02:31] <LaserJock> I'm guessing that's what it's supposed to do
[02:32] <moquist> You installed the moodle package w/o installing mysql-server or postgresql first, then you selected postgresql, and asked it to create the default database. Yeah, that sounds right.
[02:33] <LaserJock> k
[02:46] <LaserJock> moquist: alright, postgresql seems to have worked fine
[02:49] <moquist> yay!
[02:53] <LaserJock> moquist: hmm, it seems to hang on removal though
[02:59] <LaserJock> can you admit it in pm so I can fix it? ;-)
[02:59] <moquist> The reason is that I never, even once, tested removal. Or upgrade.
[03:00] <moquist> Look! It hangs!
[03:02] <moquist> My *other* packages never needed special testing. They've always Just Worked(TM). :-E
[03:02] <moquist> That's not an excuse, or anything. I'm just saying.
[03:04] <moquist> LaserJock: http://n01se.net/paste/Ke4?pretty=yes
[03:04] <LaserJock> you're going to be such a packaging guru by the time you're done with this package
[03:04] <moquist> LaserJock: that makes me think that postrm completed, but I haven't actually started looking into it yet.
[03:06] <moquist> Of course, I didn't change anything [that I remember]  in relation to removal, so it's not unreasonable that I should expect it to work. I wonder if the upstream package removes properly...
[03:07] <moquist> LaserJock: I'm curious about the case in postrm. Since it looks like postrm gets called with 'remove' as the first argument (judging and guessing based on the comments at the top), wouldn't that case complain about an unknown argument in every situation when you don't --purge?
[03:07] <moquist> And why would this be what we want?
[03:09] <moquist> Oh - and the 'ps' output I pasted above also shows moodle.postrm being called with 'remove' (I think)
[03:09] <moquist> I'm not at all familiar with /usr/share/debconf/frontend at this point.
[03:11] <moquist> ah-ha! there's a tabbing problem on that case statement.
[03:12] <moquist> Yeah, it looks like postrm finished. The webserver has been restarted, and that should be the last thing that postrm does, unless it's being called with 'purge', which it isn't.
[03:24] <moquist> LaserJock: the original package removes just fine.
[03:25] <LaserJock> did you change the postrm?
[03:25] <moquist> LaserJock: I changed postrm to use invoke-rc.d ${webserver} restart instead of . /usr/share/wwwconfig-common/restart.sh
[03:25] <LaserJock> that's it?
[03:25] <moquist> I think so; I'm diffing and pasting.
[03:26] <LaserJock> it seems weird that that would cause it to hang
[03:27] <moquist> original: http://n01se.net/paste/GsF?pretty=yes
[03:27] <moquist> new: http://n01se.net/paste/aWw?pretty=yes
[03:27] <moquist> diff: http://n01se.net/paste/KoP?pretty=yes
[03:27] <moquist> I'm not quoting as carefully as I should, but other than that it looks like I think it should.
[03:29] <crimsun> (`diff -uN` is generally preferable)
[03:29] <LaserJock> I don't see why it'd hang
[03:29] <moquist> diff-uN: http://n01se.net/paste/9Hw?pretty=yes
[03:34] <moquist> OK; I added an echo immediately before the last exit 0 and it printed.
[03:34] <moquist> postrm is completing.
[03:34] <moquist> and exiting with 0.
[03:36] <moquist> here's the process stack, which shows moodle.postrm <defunct> and the parent process in interruptible sleep: http://n01se.net/paste/MWy?pretty=yes
[03:56] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:58] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[03:58] <moquist> sbalneav: hiya
[03:58] <moquist> LaserJock: given that postrm is actually completing and exiting with 0, I don't know what to do next.
[03:59] <sbalneav> Hi LaserJock, say, was going to add a brief chapter on Sabayon and Pesselus tonight.  You're doing an addon cd chapter, you said?
[03:59] <sbalneav> hey moquist
[03:59] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I think so
[03:59] <LaserJock> I think sabayon and pesselus would  be great
[03:59] <LaserJock> moquist: may be time to ask -motu
[04:17] <moquist> LaserJock: I emailed -motu
[04:17] <LaserJock> well, I was meaning #ubuntu-motu, but ok
[07:42] <sanjay> Does Edubuntu come with any capacity for acting as a filter?
[07:45] <lns> sanjay, url filter? no, but you can get software that will
[07:46] <lns> i would actually recommend using something like IPCop (ipcop.org) on a firewall, and get the advproxy and urlfilter mods...they work very well
[08:11] <sanjay> Righto, cheers lns.
[08:24] <sanjay> Next question: Is it at all practical to have a VM session under LTSP?
[08:32] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[08:33] <sanjay> Let clients access windows through a VM
[08:35] <LaserJock> hmm, I would think if the server was good enough to run the VM well it shouldn't be much of a problem
[08:35] <LaserJock> although I can't say that I've ever tried it
[08:35] <LaserJock> what kinda of VM app are you thinking of using?
[08:35] <sanjay> I've not got much of an idea just yet.
[08:36] <sanjay> My project for the upcoming semester is to port one of my school's labs to Linux.
[08:36] <sanjay> I've played with LTSP at home before, and it seems like the natural choice.
[08:36] <sanjay> Only, there are a few Windows-only apps that may be required.
[08:37] <sanjay> The school's TCO for Windows is in the hundreds of thousands...:-/
[08:37] <lns> sanjay, I'm in the exact same position you are - I have 7 schools (in a single district) to convert from WinXP/2000 to Ubuntu and LTSP
[08:38] <lns> I'm starting to see their requirements for some Windows-only apps, like a reading and math program
[08:38] <LaserJock> I think David Trask was talking about using a VM for windows
[08:38] <LaserJock> I think it's definately doable
[08:38] <LaserJock> heck, I kinda do it myself anyway
[08:39] <sanjay> I'm just worried about the server dying.
[08:39] <LaserJock> run VMWare Server on my server and ssh -X to it from the laptop and run the client
[08:39] <lns> sanjay, what's the hardware on the server
[08:39] <LaserJock> and that's over my wifi
[08:39] <sanjay> I find out later today.
[08:39] <sanjay> Is a VM prone to crashing at all?
[08:39] <lns> not more than the OS is already prone to crash ;)
[08:39] <sanjay> As in, stable enough to stake the whole lab on?
[08:40] <lns> I wouldn't see why not at all, again as long as the server hardware can handle it
[08:40] <LaserJock> like everybody at once?
[08:40] <lns> sanjay, you're talking about having a single VM going on the edubuntu server, correct? not a bunch of them
[08:41] <sanjay> lns, that or having people use a VM from the thin clients (which I personally feel is a terrible idea)
[08:41] <LaserJock> I think he's saying a VM per thin client, or maybe I'm misundertanding
[08:41] <lns> sanjay, no don't use a VM at each thin client
[08:41] <sanjay> LaserJock, I'm thinking both, really. It's just, if the server crashes, then all the clients go down.
[08:42] <lns> in all reality, if your server goes down, production is very much limited anyway
[08:42] <lns> I've never had a problem with LTSP/edubuntu's stability
[08:42] <lns> and a VM (like vmware) is just as stable as the actual server. it uses generic hardware so windows can access it "natively" - its pretty much universal
[08:42] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:43] <sanjay> Ah, I see.
[08:43] <LaserJock> I've seen where a Uni made a whole company in VMware
[08:43] <lns> just things like running games and video related stuff would be kinda weird
[08:43] <LaserJock> to simulate sysadmining
[08:43] <lns> yeah
[08:43] <sanjay> Right, thanks then. One more thing to cross off my list!
[08:43] <LaserJock> if the hardare is enough to run it, it'll run
[08:43] <lns> I'm probably going to end up doing this at my schools, too
[08:43] <LaserJock> *hardware
[08:44] <sanjay> Is it practical to connect multiple server machines?
[08:44] <lns> how do you mean
[08:45] <sanjay> Having one in each room, with them all reporting to a central machine
[08:45] <sanjay> I'd guess that it'd be a bit of a silly bottleneck to have, and require copious amounts of hardware.
[08:45] <lns> all edubuntu servers?
[08:45] <sanjay> yeah
[08:45] <lns> how many clients do you have total in the building
[08:45] <lns> and what is your server hardware
[08:46] <sanjay> As I said, I'm not sure of the server hardware yet. I suppose it'd be your standard high school server machine...about 100-150 clients
[08:46] <lns> well i can't account for more than 35, but we use an HP Proliant ML370 G5
[08:47] <lns> and i think it's way more than we need
[08:47] <lns> dual quad core xeons (3.0GHz) and 8GB RAM
[08:47] <sanjay> That's fairly reassuring.
[08:47] <lns> something like that would probably be able to handle at least 100 clients, as far as I've read anyway
[08:48] <sanjay> The cookbook suggested 128MB of RAM per client
[08:48] <lns> haven't field tested it
[08:48] <lns> that's plenty, i have some with 64mb and they're fine
[08:48] <lns> isn't the new LTSP supposed to be able to server ones with 32mb just fine?
[08:48] <lns> i think a major factor in client ram is the stress on video that will be used
[08:49] <sanjay> Well, given it's a standard school, I think the Lab would be restricted to OOo and Firefox
[08:49] <lns> sanjay, saying 'standard school' doesn't really say much (to me, anyway)
[08:50] <lns> what is their budget for the system? do you know how much they value their labs?
[08:50] <lns> some schools are really skimpy on IT costs
[08:51] <sanjay> Let me explain my situation a bit further...
[08:52] <sanjay> after a brush with the district school board IT lads last year, the local sysadmin and I had a chat and she offered to give me one lab, after school, to try and implement a Linux-based solution for the school. If it was successful, she'd work with me to gradually expand it.
[08:52] <sanjay> Because their TCO on Windows is in the hundreds of thousands
[08:53] <sanjay> Judging from their prior expenses, they spend around $50,000 a year on updating their systems
[08:53] <lns> wow
[08:54] <lns> it really is true...fat clients in general are so much more to maintain
[08:54] <sanjay> lns, they're not skimpy on IT; they're just stupid.
[08:54] <sanjay> Yeah.
[08:54] <lns> if you have a basic need for computers (like in education) thin clients really make sense
[08:54] <sanjay> Yeah.
[08:55] <lns> its just getting all the stuff they're used to either compatible or replaced that's the tricky part
[08:55] <sanjay> Yep.
[08:55] <lns> that's what I've got to do with my schools - our situation sounds incredibly similar
[08:55] <sanjay> That's why they're suggesting a gradual transition.
[08:55] <sanjay> :-P
[08:55] <sanjay> Hey, do you know Citrix?
[08:55] <lns> only the IT admin had me side by side with windows thin clients implementing at another school
[08:55] <lns> not really
[08:55] <lns> i know how it works though
[08:55] <sanjay> They tried it across four high schools.
[08:56] <lns> ok
[08:56] <sanjay> The project lasted two years, failed miserably
[08:56] <sanjay> Cost them $800,000
[08:56] <lns> question 1: were the administrators capable?
[08:56] <sanjay> Nope.
[08:56] <lns> ;)
[08:56] <sanjay> They had to hire two more Citrix pros.
[08:56] <sanjay> Before Citrix, it was a two-man team
[08:56] <lns> citrix is supposed to be very good if implemented correctly
[08:56] <sanjay> Yeah, I've heard.
[08:57] <lns> but, of course, you're still dealing with microsoft in the end
[08:57] <sanjay> Ah, Microsoft...
[08:57] <sanjay> So, how did moving students to Linux go?
[08:57] <lns> where are your schools if you don't mind me asking?
[08:57] <sanjay> Ontario, Canada.
[08:57] <lns> i'm at school 2/7 right now starting to build the server
[08:57] <lns> cool
[08:57] <lns> i'm in california
[08:57] <sanjay> Nice.
[08:58] <lns> the students like it
[08:58] <lns> the biggest issues are that the admins know 0 about linux
[08:58] <lns> let alone how thin clients work
[08:58] <LaserJock> lns: where in California?
[08:58] <lns> i know i'm going to be spending a lot of time teaching them Gnome and things like that (administration, lockdown, etc)
[08:58] <lns> LaserJock, Sonoma County
[08:59] <lns> northern, about an hour north of San Francisco
[08:59] <sanjay> I'm peeking around the school board budget...
[08:59] <LaserJock> lns: ah, cool. I'm in Reno, NV
[08:59] <lns> the trouble for me is also going to be finding people around here that know linux that i can contract/hire
[08:59] <LaserJock> lns: so about 4 or so hrs drive away
[08:59] <lns> LaserJock, nice
[09:00] <sanjay> $15,000 on a "Ride-on Scrubber"
[09:00] <lns> yeah, and some good gambling ;)
[09:00] <LaserJock> heh
[09:00] <lns> maybe i'll have to take a 'business trip' out there haha
[09:00] <lns> sanjay, ?
[09:01] <sanjay> They spent $15,000 on a pavement cleaner that you can sit on.
[09:01] <lns> hahaha
[09:01] <lns> yeah get a good server ;)
[09:01] <sanjay> lns: Have you worked with contracting people in the past?
[09:01] <lns> sanjay, yes, a bit
[09:01] <lns> i'm a one man show right now, with lots of windows clients
[09:01] <sanjay> Is it a basket of hell?
[09:01] <lns> but i really want to put my bread and butter into LTSP in education
[09:02] <lns> sanjay, its actually not bad
[09:02] <lns> i have some good processes in place
[09:02] <lns> but LTSP is a learning experience for me as well
[09:02] <lns> there's a lot I'd love to contribute but I don't know how
[09:02] <lns> because i'd love to see thin-client-manager and tools like that really start to be developed more
[09:02] <lns> all of the teachers are really excited about that
[09:03] <sanjay> I'm looking at it now...looks like a brilliant tool.
[09:03] <lns> i'd really love to have some central place to go to pay some people to develop that type of software for LTSP
[09:04] <lns> that would add so much value to my own contracts with the district
[09:04] <sanjay> Mmm. I remember a site where you'd pay people to fix particular bugs.
[09:04] <lns> and the money flows where its supposed to go
[09:04] <sanjay> "Bounties"
[09:04] <lns> hmm
[09:04] <lns> i know hireacontractor.com or something like that
[09:04] <lns> never had much luck with it though
[09:05] <sanjay> Could TCM manage other clients from a client, provided it had the right privileges?
[09:05] <lns> i think ogra should find some good people and start a support business for LTSP ;)
[09:05] <sanjay> Or is it serverside?
[09:05] <sanjay> Looks like I'd use it :P
[09:05] <lns> pretty sure you can
[09:06] <sanjay> "Screen Viewing"...now that'll be a Godsend
[09:06] <RichEd> hi LaserJock lns sanjay
[09:06] <lns> what's up RichEd
[09:06] <lns> sanjay, that's exactly what the teachers are excited about too
[09:06] <lns> and being able to share it, say on a projector
[09:06] <sanjay> Heya, RichEd
[09:07] <RichEd> lns: spotted your comment above about wanting to contribute :)
[09:07] <lns> RichEd, are you a developer?
[09:08] <LaserJock> hi RichEd
[09:08] <RichEd> lns: not a developer ... nope ... I manage the Education Programme for Canonical
[09:08] <lns> ahh!
[09:08] <lns> lots of 'big wigs' seem to like to hang out here ;)
[09:09] <RichEd> lns: well it's my office :)
[09:09] <lns> nice.
[09:09] <lns> That alone is enough for someone like me to want to switch all to linux support
[09:09] <lns> i love the close contact with the head people here
[09:09] <LaserJock> heh, hadn't thought of it that way before
[09:10] <LaserJock> being able to talk to Mark via IRC is one of those things that shocks people sometimes ;-)
[09:10] <lns> i'm just one of the thousands of IT consultants around, but having a line of communication like this with any given software project is invaluable t ome
[09:10] <RichEd> lns: just sharing your experiences with Edubuntu with your colleagues is a good start to contributing, but what would also be a big help is that if you put together any docs for your school & teachers, be sure to share them with us
[09:10] <lns> it's like talking to celebrities. ;)
[09:10] <LaserJock> haha
[09:11] <LaserJock> quick, get his autograph ;-)
[09:11] <lns> =p
[09:11] <lns> RichEd, i definitely will, and you gave me a great idea to help them by writing documentation
[09:11] <lns> i'm still in the implementation phase, the wave is just starting to hit around the district
[09:11] <lns> but i know i'm going to need backup
[09:12] <lns> and i'm just not totally sure where to go for someone that will be able to work with me fixing issues at the schools once i have 7 to look after
[09:12] <lns> not to mention my other contract clients i have to keep handling
[09:12] <RichEd> lns: out guys who hang out here are generally pretty tech oriented ... whereas, as you know, teachers are real people ... so we need more docs at the follow the yellow footprints level
[09:12] <RichEd> *our guys ... not out guys
[09:12] <lns> very true RichEd
[09:13] <LaserJock> RichEd: we aren't real people? :(
[09:13] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:13] <RichEd> LaserJock: real_people_+
[09:13] <lns> one thing that i really wish would be implemented is having vino start at gdm on the server so the admins can log in themselves..i have a howto, but the more manual stuff i have to implement, the more can break later after updates, etc.
[09:13] <RichEd> not vanilla real people
[09:14] <LaserJock> ok, maybe you've got a point
[09:14] <RichEd> LaserJock will be buried with a notebook one day
[09:14] <LaserJock> a CMPC maybe
[09:14] <lns> =p
[09:14] <LaserJock> that'll be lighter
[09:14] <RichEd> he'll still attend the occasional meeting
[09:14] <LaserJock> as LaserJock_ghost
[09:15] <RichEd> :)
[09:15] <lns> so does Canonical have some sort of program for supporting LTSP setups, say, for remote troubleshooting?
[09:15] <RichEd> lns: I came to my desk at this point above: "the trouble for me is also going to be finding people around here that know linux that i can contract/hire"
[09:15] <RichEd> and add this: "and i'm just not totally sure where to go for someone that will be able to work with me fixing issues at the schools once i have 7 to look after"
[09:16] <RichEd> a good place to start is by looking up your loco team ... is there one in your state ?
[09:16] <lns> loco team? like a lug?
[09:16] <lns> good idea!
[09:16] <LaserJock> there is a California LoCo team I believe
[09:17] <RichEd> yep ... let me get the page for you ... they are good to network with
[09:17] <lns> awesome
[09:17] <LaserJock> I think there are quite a few people in the San Jose area, naturally
[09:17] <RichEd> and also sending a mail to the edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users mail list is fine if you are looking for edubuntu resources / skills ... we won't see job offers as spam
[09:18] <lns> i'm actually right next to o'rielly, they have a lug there that i've been to in the past
[09:18] <lns> o'reilly*
[09:18] <RichEd> lns: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
[09:18] <lns> cool, thanks!
[09:19] <sanjay> Is this a reasonable work plan?: System requirements, current solution, problems with current solution (Stupidly high TCO), proposed solution, benefits of proposition (FOSS and whatnot), implementation and costs, backdatedability
[09:20] <RichEd> lns: here specifically : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam
[09:20] <lns> beat you to it ;)
[09:21] <RichEd> and I presume you know where to find our mail lists ?
[09:21] <lns> already a part of them
[09:22] <RichEd> jus' checkin' :)
[09:22] <lns> ;)
[09:23] <RichEd> lns: and finally, do you have a listing in our Ubuntu Marketplace ?
[09:23] <lns> i don't think so
[09:25] <RichEd> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/commercial/marketplace
[09:25] <RichEd> Canonical Marketplace
[09:25] <RichEd> There is a growing network of companies that provide local support for desktops and servers running Ubuntu. Find a company close to you, or get your own company listed in the marketplace.
[09:26] <RichEd> ^ so basically, if you offer any services around Ubuntu, you can get listed for free on the web sitge
[09:26] <RichEd> *site
[09:26] <lns> sounds good, will do that! =)
[09:27] <RichEd> (first step towards becoming a partner)
[09:28] <RichEd> what might be useful for you is to look up other companies in the listings, and to say hi to them ... at this stage of linux commercial business, it's a matter of all helping to make the pie bigger, not really about competing for clients / business
[09:29] <lns> =p
[09:29] <lns> no this is all very relevant information
[09:29] <lns> for me anyway ;)
[09:30] <lns> ok, i just submitted my form for marketplace
[09:30] <lns> although my website doesn't have any linux-specific information on it yet
[09:35] <RichEd> lns: re ^ linux info ... whip up a quick blog post on the merits of LTSP, Edubuntu and the cool people in this channel, and then you've got enough linux stuff for the listing, seeing as you have OLPC and open-source voting machines as front page teasers for existing posts
[09:36] <lns> will do! =)
[09:36] <lns> I'm definitely going to write an actual page as well
[09:41] <jsgotangco> hello
[09:41] <lns> hi jsgotangco
[09:42] <lns> and goodbye everyone, i'm off to the depths of unconsciousness
[09:46] <sanjay> Bye, lns!
[09:46] <sanjay> Holy fricking Christ it's 03:46
[09:46] <sanjay> I have to go back to school in 4 hours :-O
[10:00] <ari_stress> hello
[10:01] <ari_stress> guys, i'm installing ltsp5 on 64bit for 32bit clients. the client environment is done. but i changed the ip address of the ltsp server. now, when i try to ltsp-update-sshkeys it said that WARNING: /opt/ltsp/./amd64/etc/ssh not found. skipping...
[10:01] <ari_stress> and the effect is that clients cannot logon
[10:02] <ari_stress> when i try to logon fron console, the error is: login incorrect
[10:02] <RichEd> ari_stress: if no-one answers in a few minutes ... ping ogra ... or try the same question in #ltsp
[10:04] <ogra> ari_stress, you cant log in on console on thin clients ...
[10:04] <ari_stress> hi ogra
[10:04] <ari_stress> i found this error:
[10:04] <ogra> does /opt/ltsp/i386 exist ?
[10:04] <ari_stress> sh: /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter: not found
[10:04] <ari_stress> yes it exists
[10:04] <ogra> hmm, thats not a default edubuntu, is it ?
[10:04] <ari_stress> is there any steps installing ltsp5 that i miss?
[10:04] <ari_stress> ogra, it's feisty 64bit
[10:05] <ogra> i guess you only used the ltsp-server package ...
[10:05] <ari_stress> i thougt so too
[10:05] <ogra> -standalone has some extra dependencies ...
[10:05] <ogra> you need ltspfs installed for ltspfsmounter
[10:06] <ogra> but anyway, ine thing at a time ....
[10:06] <ari_stress> ok, i'll install ltspfs
[10:06] <ari_stress> it's funny though
[10:06] <ari_stress> i think i remember read it somewhere about the need of installing ltspfs
[10:06] <ari_stress> i guess i forgot :D
[10:07] <ogra> is /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts existing ? and /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
[10:07] <ogra> and does the content differ ?
[10:08] <ari_stress>  /opt/ltsp/amd64 is empty because i don't build any for 64bit clients
[10:10] <ari_stress> i'm installing ltspfs now
[10:10] <ari_stress> ok rebooting
[10:12] <burnerx> i installed new applications from synaptic on the server, how do i give user access to it ?
[10:13] <ari_stress> burnerx: on the server or on the clients environment?
[10:13] <burnerx> i think on the clients envirnoment... i want the users be able to use the application
[10:16] <ari_stress> it's not visible to the client?
[10:16] <LaserJock> ogra: morning
[10:17] <ogra> LaserJock, hey
[10:17] <burnerx> should it be visible right away without any changes ?
[10:17] <ogra> yes
[10:17] <burnerx> well, i just installed AbiWord, and that should show up without me editing anything?
[10:19] <ogra> yes
[10:19] <ogra> should be in your office menu
[10:20] <burnerx> i tried the Screen Viewer under the Thin Client Manager, and it told me to install X11vnc on my client
[10:21] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
[10:23] <ari_stress> ogra: i still cannot logon from the clients. if i remember correctly, ltspfs is only needed for mounting usbdisk?
[10:24] <ari_stress> there's no more ltspfsmount error again though
[10:24] <ogra> good
[10:24] <ogra> is that gutsy or feisty ?
[10:25] <ogra> ah, you said feisty
[10:25] <ari_stress> feisty
[10:25] <ari_stress> yes
[10:26] <ogra> do you have a /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts file ?
[10:26] <ari_stress> yes there is
[10:27] <ogra> does it contain anything ?
[10:27] <ari_stress> it contains lots of keys of the server ip
[10:27] <ari_stress> and the server name
[10:28] <ogra> lots == ?
[10:28] <ogra> more than four ?
[10:28] <ari_stress> let me count
[10:28] <ari_stress> just 4
[10:28] <ogra> that should be fine then
[10:29] <ogra> the server ip is right in that file ?
[10:29] <ari_stress> since /opt/ltsp/amd64 is empty, i create a symlink from i386, is it ok?
[10:29] <ari_stress> yes the server ip is correct
[10:29] <ogra> should work, yes ...
[10:29] <ogra> just not the other way around :)
[10:30] <ogra> since you wouldnt see it from the client
[10:30] <ari_stress> the symptoms is tend to the wrong ssh-keys, don't you think?
[10:30] <ogra> so if you run ltsp-update-sshkeys with the symlink in place, does the file change ?
[10:31] <ari_stress> should i empty the file first? to make sure
[10:31] <ari_stress> i create the symlink because lstp-update-sshkeys will error if there's no /opt/ltsp/amd64
[10:32] <ogra> can you run the following:
[10:32] <ogra>  BASE=/opt/ltsp; find ${BASE} -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type d 2>/dev/null
[10:32] <ogra> and paste the output here
[10:32] <ari_stress> ok
[10:32] <ogra> (thats how ltsp-update-sshkeys determines the chroots)
[10:32] <burnerx> it said "Couldn't Find package x11vnc"
[10:33] <ogra> burnerx, hmm, you likely need universe enabled in the chroot ... do the following:
[10:33] <ari_stress> ogra: the result is: /opt/ltsp/i386
[10:34] <ogra> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
[10:34] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update
[10:34] <ogra> then repeat what is on the wikipage
[10:34] <burnerx> ok
[10:34] <ari_stress> btw, should i install the ltspfs in the server or the client env?
[10:35] <ari_stress> wait a mic
[10:35] <ari_stress> min
[10:35] <ogra> ari_stress, hmm, then its unlikely thats your problem, can you check ~/.xsession-errors of the user you try to log in with ?
[10:35] <ogra> ltspfs needs to go on the server
[10:36] <ari_stress> ogra
[10:36] <ogra> oh, wait, where did you see that error about ltspfsmounter ? in a log on the server ?
[10:36] <ari_stress> i found it
[10:36] <ari_stress> i forgot
[10:36] <ari_stress> it's not about the ltspfs
[10:36] <ari_stress> it's my ldap
[10:36] <ogra> ahhh
[10:36] <ari_stress> my server needs to connect to ldap
[10:37] <ari_stress> i forgot to update the libnss-ldap and pam-ldap in the client env
[10:37] <ari_stress> in the first server i forgot to document this step
[10:37] <ari_stress> let me try to update it
[10:37] <ogra> make sure the user is in the fuse group then and the fuse group needs to have the same GID in your ldap as it has on the server
[10:38] <ogra> else local devices wont work
[10:38] <ari_stress> ok
[10:38] <ari_stress> thank you so much ogra, you're the best
[10:39] <ogra> :)
[10:39] <RichEd> ari_stress: ogra is where "the ltsp tyre meets the road"
[10:39] <ari_stress> RichEd: 100% agree :D
[10:45] <burnerx> this is cool
[10:46] <ari_stress> this makes me wonder though, in case I don't use LDAP and use passwd instead, so i need to create the user INSIDE the client env? not the server?
[10:51] <RichEd> ogra: when you have a spare moment, please tell me which of jillc's desktops work best re logo placement ... tx
[10:52] <RichEd> (don't want to load all variations on the wiki page ... only the best)
[10:55] <ogra> Edubuntu_global-sept307b.png
[10:55] <ogra> the other one is to close to the edgy with the logo imho
[10:56] <ogra> and indeed i'm happy if its mentioned on groklaw :)
[11:04] <RichEd> i've composed a mail ... just not sent ... saying 95% certainty barring the usual release glitches
[11:05] <ogra> right
[11:05] <RichEd> "usual release glitches" ... ahem let me rephrase that:  barring the usual glitches or uncertainities with any release process"
[11:06] <RichEd> not to imply that *buntu releases usually have glitches :)
[11:06] <ogra> heh
[11:46] <ari_stress> hmm still not go. i cannot logon to X
[11:46] <ari_stress> very strange
[11:46] <ari_stress> i check with the old server, and i can logon
[11:47] <ari_stress> in the old server, i cannot logon from console, but i can from ZX
[11:47] <ari_stress> X
[12:05] <ari_stress> interesting findings
[12:05] <ari_stress> when i try to logon locally to the server
[12:05] <ari_stress> i cannot logon with error:
[12:06] <ari_stress> Could not get password database information for UID of current process: User ??? unknown or no memory to allocate pasword entry
[12:10] <ogra> looks like a prob with your ldap setup
[12:16] <ari_stress> i'm copied the confs from the previous server
[12:17] <ari_stress> the getent passwd and group works
[12:20] <ari_stress> it's related specifically to X login i guess because sshd-ing into the server works
[12:25] <ari_stress> intentionally put a wrong password correctly checked as 'authentication failed'
[12:27] <ari_stress> login using failsafe gnome reveals that actually X can know the uid, but not the name
[12:28] <ari_stress> could it be a bug?
[12:52] <ari_stress> wow now i cannot login as a local user either
[12:52] <ari_stress> superb
[01:10] <Nubaae> hi there
[01:11] <Nubaae> So, I'm trying to connect a terminal to my ltsp setup, which has an all fglrx setup right now, so this new computer has a different network card (nv) When I adapt the lts.conf file to reflect this, via [mac address here]  followed by XSERVER=nv, it doesnt work
[01:12] <ogra> nv is used by default anyway
[01:12] <Nubaae> I've tried restarting the server, though this shouldn't be necessary...
[01:12] <ogra> no
[01:12] <ogra> it isnt
[01:12] <Nubaae> for some reason, it just reads the fglrx setup all the time
[01:12] <Nubaae> no matter what I change in lts.conf
[01:13] <ogra> paste your lts.conf to the pastebin
[01:13] <Nubaae> I've tried making a seperate xf86config= file too... and then I thought... maybe thats whats conflicting it?
[01:13] <ogra> !pastebin
[01:13] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[01:13] <Nubaae> well, its not that long, just 6 or 7 lines
[01:13] <Nubaae> ill paste it to u in private?
[01:14] <Nubaae> but if you prefer, I'll use pastebin
[01:17] <Nubaae> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36306/
[01:18] <Nubaae> ah, the card in question is a nvidia gforce 440SE, if that helps at all
[01:19] <ogra> and you are sure its using fglrx ? how did you verify that ?
[01:19] <Nubaae> first of all, it allowed me to do a alt+f6
[01:19] <Nubaae> taking me to a shell
[01:19] <Nubaae> then I checked the output of xorg
[01:20] <Nubaae> I have screen 6 as shell
[01:21] <ogra> hmm, you hav especified both, XSERVER and XF86CONFIG_FILE in the mac defined section
[01:21] <Nubaae> yeah, thats me trying stuff
[01:21] <Nubaae> I did that after though... with just xserver didnt work
[01:21] <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/myxorg2.conf has definately nv in it ?
[01:21] <Nubaae> yes
[01:21] <ogra> if the MAC address is right that should be used then ...
[01:22] <ogra> are you sure its right ?
[01:22] <Nubaae> yeah maca ddress verified and reverified
[01:22] <Nubaae> u know whats weird... it worked once
[01:22] <ogra> which release is that ?
[01:22] <Nubaae> well, almost
[01:22] <Nubaae> feisty
[01:23] <ogra> can you comment *all* XSERVER and XF86CONFIG_FILE entries in the lts.conf ? and check what happens then
[01:23] <Nubaae> oh... its using a 3com card with pxe 2.2
[01:23] <ogra> (it should default to either vesa or nv)
[01:23] <Nubaae> all default and mac address?
[01:23] <ogra> yep
[01:23] <Nubaae> ok
[01:24] <ogra> let the autodetection do its work and see what you get for it
[01:24] <ari_stress> ogra :)
[01:24] <ari_stress> i found the culprit
[01:24] <ari_stress> oh mannn!
[01:24] <ogra> what was it ?
[01:25] <ari_stress> because of copy paste of the confs from the previous server into the new server using a USBDISK
[01:25] <ari_stress> the permission of /etc/nsswitch is 700
[01:25] <ari_stress> whereas it should be 644
[01:25] <ari_stress> goddamnit
[01:25] <ogra> oh
[01:25] <ari_stress> lol
[01:25] <ogra> well, nobody is perfect :)
[01:25] <ari_stress> very nice, i've spent 4 hours :D
[01:25] <ari_stress> but i'm glad at the end
[01:25] <ari_stress> :D
[01:26] <ogra> :)
[01:26] <Nubaae> yeah that works fine
[01:28] <Nubaae> however, that doesnt resolve my problem, unless I keep the nv computer on all the time
[01:28] <Nubaae> :-)
[01:29] <ari_stress> yes222... the clients can logon now :D
[01:29] <ari_stress> wow.. that was close
[01:29] <ari_stress> i almost reinstall the server
[01:30] <ari_stress> well, i gtg now. wife has been waiting :D
[01:30] <ari_stress> see you around all :)
[01:30] <ari_stress> great day
[01:36] <ogra> Nubaae, i suspect the config file you define in the default sectuion prevents the config script from even running on the nvidia system
[01:37] <ogra> try to use the XF86CONFIG_FILE parameters for both and done set XSERVER ... try if that helps
[01:37] <ogra> *dont
[01:38] <Nubaae> ok, I'll try that
[01:56] <moquist> ogra: didja see my email to -motu about the moodle package?
[02:00] <ogra> moquist, is moodle/webserver properly set ?
[02:00] <moquist> yes; apache is restarting.
[02:00] <ogra> (and why doi you still have servers="apache apache-ssl apache-perl apache2" ?)
[02:00] <ogra> that can go
[02:01] <ogra> invoke-rc.d ${webserver} restart || true
[02:01] <ogra> ;)
[02:01] <ogra> poor mans "i don't care"
[02:01] <moquist> I wonder if that was already moot code, given that restart was set to $webserver. I'm not sure wwwconfig was looking @ $servers.
[02:01] <moquist> Yeah, that would be better.
[02:01] <ogra> and you should probably be more graceful and either use only reload or ask the user if you are allowed to restart the httpd
[02:02] <ogra> just tearing it down is a bit mean
[02:02] <moquist> are we sure that apache, apache-ssl, apache-perl, and apache2 all support 'reload'?
[02:03] <moquist> but yeah, you're right
[02:03] <ogra> guess how long a server restart took there :)
[02:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> not sure i could run 2k domains on my dual 233 :|
[02:03] <moquist> 30 min?
[02:03] <ogra> i would have killed you back then (and even more my boss would have ;))
[02:03] <ogra> yeah, about that
[02:03] <ogra> it also ran the DNS and mailserver for them
[02:03] <moquist> Well, you shouldn't ever have used this package on such a server, or at least without testing carefully first. :)
[02:04] <ogra> pfft
[02:04] <ogra> if its in main i assume it doesnt do evil things
[02:04] <moquist> Well, yeah. It should be a responsible package.
[02:04] <moquist> Of course.
[02:05] <ogra> use reload for now
[02:05] <ogra> questions and the like can come later
[02:05] <moquist> I'm checking them all for reload.
[02:05] <moquist> I've made the same change in postinst.
[02:06] <moquist> Also, FWIW, apache2 was restarting successfully, so || true shouldn't change anything.
[02:06] <moquist> (in the scenario we've been running into)
[02:08] <ogra> well, || true will make it ignore any return value
[02:09] <moquist> It's the right thing to do; I'm just saying that it doesn't solve our immediate problem.
[02:09] <ogra> so errors wont be blobking
[02:09] <ogra> *blobking
[02:09] <ogra> GRRR
[02:09] <moquist> Yep. No disagreement here.
[02:09] <ogra> *blocking
[02:09] <ogra> heh
[02:10] <moquist> Yeah, I distinctly remember thinking "happily" while I typed that -motu email last night, and when I read it 5 min. ago I noticed that it says "happing". Stupid fingers.
[02:41] <Nubaae> so, I've tried using just the XF86CONFIG= in the lts.conf file
[02:41] <Nubaae> and same thing happens...
[02:41] <Nubaae> tries to load the fglrx setup
[02:42] <Nubaae> I guess a solution for now will be to put an ati card in that system... but should I try and take out the XF86CONFIG altogether to see if that works?
[02:49] <Nubaae> no luck
[03:06] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:06] <ogra> are you sure its the file you have defined that is used ?
[03:30] <netzer0> hi... anyone here?
[03:35] <Nubaae> yes... checked it over and over
[03:36] <Nubaae> checked it on another ltsp server, where there is no lts.conf file and there it works fine
[03:37] <Nubaae> seems to me, that this is all happening because the fglrx driver has been compiled into chroot kernel, could that be?
[03:41] <ogra> lol
[03:41] <ogra> yes
[03:41] <ogra> indeed
[03:41] <ogra> that cant work, you should mention such stuff in the beginning
[03:41] <ogra> use the default kernel package and the fglrx module from ubuntu
[03:49] <Nubaae> ok, can u run me through that...
[03:50] <ogra> you managed to compile your own kernel and replace the shipped one, but dont know how to revert what you did ?
[03:51] <Nubaae> hehe, well I followed the steps you gave me...
[03:51] <Nubaae> I can probably figure it out, but just to be sure, I thought I'd ask u
[03:53] <ogra> i gave you ?
[03:54] <Nubaae> it may be that its not compiled into the kernel.... I just thought it might be... you gave me 2 steps to follow
[03:54] <Nubaae> to install the fglrx driver
[03:54] <Nubaae> I thought one of them was to install a fglrx kernel
[03:54] <ogra> ah, k
[03:54] <Nubaae> but I might be wrong
[03:56] <Nubaae> I've tried putting a ati 3D rage card in the computer giving problems, but seems that doesnt wanna run the fglrx driver
[03:57] <ogra> likely unsupported
[03:57] <ogra> would work with the ati driver i guess
[03:58] <Nubaae> yeah thats what I'm seeing... for fglrx needs to be a newer ati card I guess
[03:59] <bddebian> Heya
[04:00] <Nubaae> if I do a lsmod, I dont see the fglrx driver
[04:00] <ogra> in the running client ?
[04:02] <Nubaae> in alt+f6 (screen 6 = shell)
[04:02] <t94xr> does http://t94xr.ath.cx/ work ?
[04:03] <Nubaae> however I can modprobe it, does this mean its taking the driver from the kernel?
[04:03] <t94xr> arthg sorry wrong channel
[04:03] <ogra> yes
[04:03] <ogra> if you used the fglrx package all is fine
[04:04] <Nubaae> well, I think i did apt-get install xserver-xorg-fglrx and fglrx-driver
[04:04] <Nubaae> or something like that, I cant remember exactly, but I dont think it was getting a new kernel
[04:42] <ogra> sbalneav, removing -desktop wont remove any other package
[04:43] <ogra> his prob is that half of gnome is compiled against gecko
[04:43] <ogra> which makes the packages depend on firefox
[04:45] <sbalneav> ah,
[04:45] <sbalneav> I thought it was because firefox is a requirement for ubuntu-desktop
[04:46] <sbalneav> so, removing firefox removes -desktop, which hoses other stuff.
[04:46] <sbalneav> well, either way, he shouldn't :)
[04:46] <ogra> well, either way we should rather use xulrunner for these apps :)
[04:47] <ogra> but the mozilla trademake policy clashes with xulrunner
[04:47] <sbalneav> I've heard of xulrunner, but I have no idear what it is?
[04:47] <ogra> else i'd ship epiphany instead of FF since n releases already
[04:47] <ogra> its the gecko parts separated from firefox
[04:47] <ogra> (they could just call it libgecko :P )
[04:49] <sbalneav> Epiphany would be better in some ways, as it integrates with pessulus
[04:50] <ogra> and has no extra tanslations
[04:50] <ogra> *trans
[04:50] <ogra> which is the most tempting fact for me :)
[04:50] <sbalneav> So, why don't we switch to it? Policy?
[04:50] <ogra> (ephi has them in the gnome packagew anyway)
[04:51] <ogra> trademark
[04:51] <sbalneav> Epiphany has trademark issues?
[04:51] <ogra> we would need to use iceweazle
[04:51] <ogra> no
[04:51] <ogra> mozilla has
[04:51] <ogra> being able to use firefox in ubuntru brings some restrictions with it
[04:52] <sbalneav> Sorry, I'm not understanding.  I though if we used epiphany INSTEAD of firefox/iceweasel, there woudln't be a problem.
[04:52] <ogra> 6then we would need xulrunner
[04:52] <ogra> which breaks the FF policy
[04:53] <ogra> its about xulrunner, not ephi
[04:54] <ogra> ephi is only a gnome frontend to gecko ... it needs gecko (currently through being linlked against FF)
[04:54] <ogra> to make it work standalone it would need to link against xulrunner
[04:54] <ogra> but we cant use xulrunner because thjat breaks the FF trademark
[05:51] <RichEd> anectodal comment: why open office ?
[05:51] <RichEd> classroom.ppt 1 slide 1.2MB
[05:52] <RichEd> silly file format
[06:08] <Nubaae> I am trying to mount /home/$user over nfs for some non ltsp clients... is the correct procedure, to put in /home/$user in exports and then mount through fstab from the client side?
[07:50] <didge> hi.  i'm attempting to install edubuntu.  the installation package is freezing after it has installed the package brltty-x11.  what can i do ?
[07:50] <didge> this is the third time.
[07:50] <didge> i have verified cd integrity
[07:51] <LaserJock> what version of Edubuntu?
[07:51] <didge> 7.04
[07:52] <didge> can i rescue the installation ? can i skip this particular package ?
[07:52] <didge> i can access a console
[07:54] <LaserJock> do you have a network connection while installing?
[08:01] <didge> no
[08:02] <didge> do i need a network connection while installing ?
[08:10] <LaserJock> didge: well, you shouldn't but sometimes it seems to have issues
[08:11] <LaserJock> didge: I know quite a few people though that installed 7.04 ok without a net connection
[08:13] <didge> ok
[08:14] <didge> i read that brltty-x11 looks on the web for some files during the installation procedure.
[08:14] <didge> during this installation, i aborted dhcp configuration during the install and chose "do not configure my network at this time" then continued.  i will report the results.
[08:16] <moquist> LaserJock: I just now ran 'strace apt-get remove moodle' and the 'apt-get remove' process on line 1 of http://n01se.net/paste/Ke4?pretty=yes is looping, waiting on the dpkg process on line 2.
[08:17] <LaserJock> oh, wait a sec
[08:18] <LaserJock> moquist: can you paste the postrm for me?
[08:19] <LaserJock> moquist: nvm, got it
[08:22] <LaserJock> moquist: so the dpkg process is not returning/exiting?
[08:26] <moquist> LaserJock: correct
[08:27] <LaserJock> ok...
[08:27] <LaserJock> so now why the heck would that be
[08:28] <LaserJock> ok, so we know that it restars the webserver
[08:32] <moquist> LaserJock: and if I put 'echo foobar' just before 'exit 0' at the end of postrm, it prints
[08:32] <moquist> (after the webserver restart)
[08:33] <LaserJock> on which part?
[08:33] <didge> hi
[08:33] <didge> it works now
[08:33] <didge> you have to specifically disable the network configuration
[08:34] <moquist> LaserJock: which part of what?
[08:34] <moquist> LaserJock: I'll post an example
[08:34] <LaserJock> moquist: which case?
[08:34] <LaserJock> moquist: see #ubuntu-motu
[09:18] <sbalneav> Well, I've re-implemented jetpipe in C.  It's a 5k executable.
[09:18] <LaserJock> coolio
[09:18] <sbalneav> It's too late to get in for this time, but what I'd like to see (ogra and I have talked about it before) is get some udev rules in place for usb printers.
[09:19] <sbalneav> If you plug in a usb printer, you've got a printserver.
[09:19] <sbalneav> We'll get it in the books for Hairy.
[10:12] <sbalneav> moquist: You around?
[10:13] <moquist> sbalneav: yo ho
[10:13] <sbalneav> Can you /msg me, I'm just testing switching to gaim from xchat
[11:01] <didge> hi.
[11:01] <didge> i'm having trouble booting my diskless client.
[11:02] <didge> i already have a diskless network on 192.168.1.X
[11:02] <didge> i am attempting to use edubuntu as a second diskless network on 192.168.2.x
[11:02] <didge> on the client, i get the "edubuntu splash screen", then it starts talking to my primary server (which is centos)
[11:45] <lns> didge, are the two networks physically tied together, or do you have 2 NICs in your edubuntu server?
[11:49] <lns> I have a feeling your edubuntu network is talking to the same DHCP server that your CentOS network is tied to
[11:49] <lns> so the DHCP options might be conflicting with the 2 networks