[02:54] <CIA-33> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4317 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: replaced some topics and added links to index
[02:55] <LaserJock> showoff
[03:07] <CIA-33> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4318 kubuntu/ (18 files in 18 dirs): update pot files
[06:33] <CIA-33> Ubuntu Documentation: sbalneav * r4319 edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml: Added small section on Sabayon and Pessulus
[08:58] <LaserJock> mdke: it seems I forgot to reply to your Packaging Guide email
[08:58] <mdke> LaserJock: how dare you!
[08:59] <LaserJock> mdke: there is enough difference that keeping around the dapper version  is good
[08:59] <LaserJock> but after that people might as well be be using the latest
[09:00] <mdke> do people package things for dapper?
[09:00] <mdke> or rather
[09:00] <mdke> do people who are learning how to package for the first time do so on dapper?
[09:00] <LaserJock> probably rarely
[09:00] <LaserJock> usually we put them into the current dev release
[09:00] <LaserJock> i.e. right now everybody is learning on gutsy
[09:01] <mdke> that's what I thought
[09:01] <LaserJock> I would rather like to see the Packaging Guide not tied to releases
[09:01] <mdke> would it be possible to make it release neutral; i.e. including a section about how to package for previous releases?
[09:01] <LaserJock> yes, well
[09:02] <LaserJock> after dapper it pretty much is
[09:02] <mdke> right
[09:02] <mdke> and is it for the foreseeable future too?
[09:03] <LaserJock> the only time it becomes difficult is if there is some major change in the way we do things
[09:03] <LaserJock> for dapper->edgy some of the tools were made much easier
[09:03] <LaserJock> for feisty we added some Maintainer field stuff
[09:04] <LaserJock> but in princible these are minor things and should be dealt with by using notes
[09:04] <mdke> presumably in that case the packaging guide would simply be updated, and people packaging for previous releases would need to look at some specific information
[09:04] <LaserJock> right
[09:05] <LaserJock> but I also think the packaging guide could be totally reworked
[09:05] <LaserJock> so that it is more guide and less reference
[09:05] <LaserJock> in which case it could be even less release-specific
[09:05] <mdke> is anyone in motu interested in working on it? If it's sold as the definitive motu guide, perhaps people would be
[09:05] <LaserJock> well
[09:06] <mdke> jono could pimp it up as part of his motu push?
[09:06] <LaserJock> I've had three people show an interest in it
[09:06] <LaserJock> TheCore, bluekuja, and another fellow
[09:06] <LaserJock> but I honestly don't know where that's going to get
[09:06] <LaserJock> the emphasis seems to be much more into doing docs on the wiki
[09:07] <mdke> so there is an overlap between those and the packaging guide?
[09:08] <LaserJock> the wiki documentation, in general, seems to be more specific and less quality
[09:08] <LaserJock> sort of what we see in general
[09:09] <LaserJock> my concern is that a lot of people want to see some sort of guide through all this mess
[09:09] <LaserJock> and a fair amount want to print out a PDF as well
[09:10] <LaserJock> but as far as overlap of content there isn't a ton
[09:11] <mdke> we should try and get the packaging guide into the wiki and start people working on that
[09:12] <LaserJock> yes, I think that might be the way to go
[09:12] <LaserJock> I've never really gotten devs to help with content much
[09:16] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r4320 ubuntu/printing/C/printing.xml: Ross's patch to update to new printing program
[09:18] <mdke> LaserJock: ok we agree :)
[09:20] <LaserJock> yes, but would still like to produce a nice looking doc
[09:20] <LaserJock> development on the wiki is nice
[09:20] <LaserJock> but end-user presentation on the wiki can be quite messy
[09:20] <LaserJock> especially for a largish doc
[09:21] <mdke> well, it wouldn't all be on one page, obviously
[09:22] <mdke> each chapter could be a page, or evensections
[09:25] <mdke> basically it would be nice to get to a place in docbook->wiki tolls that we can chunk the ouput in exactly the same way as we chunk html output
[09:33] <LaserJock> yep
[03:52] <glatzor> mdke: hello, could you please assist me in building translated html output of the documentation?
[03:52] <glatzor> I would like to use it for the review process
[03:52] <glatzor> The howto mentions to replace all C with de but this doesn't work.
[03:52] <glatzor> the translate,sh should still not be used?
[09:41] <mdke> glatzor: translate.sh should work fine. However there is no point using it with gutsy, we haven't even opened translations yet, let alone imported anything from rosetta. You can use it with feisty
[09:50] <mdke> glatzor: I'm going to look into translations soon though
[10:32] <glatzor> mdke: I was confused by acomment in the script "NB - DON'T ATTEMPT TO USE THIS YET, IT HASN'T BEEN TESTED MUCH." :)
[10:33] <mdke> glatzor: yeah, understandably
[10:33] <mdke> glatzor: anyway, that doesn't allow you to build html...
[10:34] <glatzor> mdke: It is quite late. see you.
[10:35] <glatzor> good night, mdke
[10:39] <mdke> glatzor: good night
[10:53] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4321 generic/server/C/web-servers.xml: Change php5-cgi to php5-cli (patch from Adam Sommer)
[10:58] <kylewilliams> nixternal, you there?
[10:58] <nixternal> kind of..what's up?
[10:59] <kylewilliams> ha, um...did you get my last email?
[11:00] <nixternal> yes I did...dunno how I missed that
[11:00] <nixternal> hey, with your sync, would your directions work for many?
[11:00] <kylewilliams> ok, was just wondering coz you're usually pretty quick to reply :)
[11:00] <nixternal> probably because Kontact in Gutsy has been broke for the past week :)
[11:01] <kylewilliams> that would ultimately be the idea, i'd need to test it a bit first though
[11:01] <kylewilliams> :D
[11:01] <nixternal> rock on...we only have a couple of days before all docs are frozen...did you do the sync in Gutsy?
[11:01] <kylewilliams> no, feisty - still have to test it on gutsy. was gonna do it this weekend
[11:02] <nixternal> we have 8 more days until the strings are frozen...so if you could rock up something with gutsy, a couple of screenshots (1024x768 with the default theme), I should be able to work it in
[11:02] <nixternal> it is definitely a topic I want to cover
[11:03] <nixternal> I could also work with my palm pilot here and work on syncing it as well
[11:03] <kylewilliams> ok, will get to working on it soon
[11:03] <kylewilliams> one problem though
[11:03] <nixternal> rock on, and just shoot me an email when you have something worked up
[11:03] <nixternal> not knowing docbook isn't a problem :)
[11:03] <nixternal> if that is what you were going to say
[11:03] <kylewilliams> the opensync-plugins-kdepim doesn't work with KDE > 3.5.5
[11:03] <nixternal> hehe
[11:03] <kylewilliams> sorry, trying to eat and type at the same time
[11:04] <kylewilliams> the package in the repos i mean
[11:04] <nixternal> are you sure? we just uploaded a new opensync everyone has been bragging about in gutsy
[11:04] <kylewilliams> oh, i tested against the package in the feisty repos
[11:04] <kylewilliams> i guess i should test it in gutsy first
[11:04] <nixternal> ya, give it a shot this week with gutsy and see what you can rock out
[11:05] <nixternal> hey, if this sync'ing stuff is up your alley, and you feel like doing some KDE 4 contributions, I might be able to pull a job for you
[11:05] <kylewilliams> ok cool...
[11:05] <kylewilliams> do by any chance know how kitchensync development is going?
[11:05] <nixternal> it is going..I know they are working hard on the "syncing" stuff with kdepim in KDE 4
[11:06] <kylewilliams> ya, well this weekend i really came to understand syncing
[11:06] <nixternal> awesome..I haven't messed with it in quite a few months actually, and I need to
[11:06] <kylewilliams> oh, and i'd love to do some KDE 4 stuff
[11:07] <nixternal> rock on, we hang out in #kde-docs
[11:07] <kylewilliams> i also tried synching a few months ago but got nowhere
[11:07] <nixternal> it is usually quiet, but my recent blog post started a lot of buzz
[11:07] <nixternal> so I am hurrying to finish the kubuntu docs so I can get back over to the KDE side for a while
[11:08] <kylewilliams> when's the kde4 doc freeze?
[11:08] <nixternal> we still have a couple of months, and a ton of work to do
[11:09] <kylewilliams> i'm sure...
[11:09] <kylewilliams> whenever i have time i'll try and get stuff down
[11:09] <kylewilliams> *done
[11:10] <kylewilliams> anyway, when the kde4 doc rush comes about I should be able to help out as I should be finished with exams by then
[11:10] <nixternal> groovy
[11:11] <nixternal> anywho, I need to roll for a bit here and finish up some work..just ping me if you need something
[11:11] <kylewilliams> one more question
[11:11] <nixternal> go for it
[11:11] <kylewilliams> any response to my question regarding the lack of a desktop guide for feisty?
[11:11] <kylewilliams> kubuntu feisty that is
[11:12] <nixternal> we dropped the desktop guides in favor of a topic based help setup
[11:13] <nixternal> however, I would like to someday work up another desktop guide as a side project because I get more emails and comments about bringing it back than anything else
[11:13] <kylewilliams> oh i see
[11:13] <nixternal> I have started working on a project and need to get the time to rock it out
[11:13] <kylewilliams> well where is the topic based help for feisty?
[11:13] <nixternal> need to speek with Jonathan Jesse a little more on the project first
[11:13] <nixternal> KMenu -> Help
[11:13] <nixternal> same spot the Desktop Guide was in
[11:13] <mdke> it's worth pointing out that there isn't really a proper distinction between a "desktop guide" and a "topic based help system"
[11:13] <kylewilliams> lol, oh there...i meant online
[11:14] <nixternal> mdke: true, but the requests I have been getting were something to read up on prior to installing, or something they could easily print out
[11:14] <mdke> the only difference is that the material which tells the user how to use their desktop is in more than one file, rather than in a single document
[11:14] <nixternal> so I have been messing around on the side just writing some stuff up that I am trying to get incorporated into the tbh for kubuntu
[11:15] <nixternal> the great thing with kde 4, is people will be able to go into one of the topics, and if they want to, they can press the "Export to PDF" button and have a PDF to do as they wish
[11:15] <mdke> nixternal: the response to that should be "we should develop a way to output our desktop help into a downloadable and printable format" rather than "we need to bring back the desktop guide"
[11:15] <nixternal> we don't need to bring back the desktop guide
[11:15] <mdke> I agree
[11:15] <nixternal> but I would like to do a free on the internet for all, Kubuntu Book like deal
[11:15] <mdke> but that was what you said a few lines up, so I wanted to clarify
[11:16] <nixternal> similar in style to that of the official ubuntu book, just more than one chapter for kubuntu :)
[11:16] <kylewilliams> yes, the official ubuntu book is good. would be nice to have one for kubuntu
[11:17] <kylewilliams> a whole one for kubuntu :D
[11:17] <nixternal> yes it would :)
[11:17] <mdke> there is an important difference between making a book out of our documentation (which just involves finding the right toolchain for pdf generation) and writing a desktop guide (which involves the extra and unnecessary step of writing more material and duplicating effort)
[11:17] <nixternal> who knows though, we are kind of processing one for KDE that might be good enough for all
[11:18] <kylewilliams> i've gotta go figure out how to implement serial communication on windows for a computer science project :(
[11:19] <kylewilliams> will be in touch nixternal
[11:19] <nixternal> fun, I am coding a bazillion lines of java right now for my comp sci project as well
[11:19] <nixternal> fun stuff...chat with ya later
[11:19] <kylewilliams> ha, enjoy