[08:41] <dholbach> good morning
[10:17] <mdamt> What's the input method situation? I read in the spec that it will use onBoard, but it seems that mb-keyboard is used?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> yes, we're using matchbox-keyboard at the moment.
[11:59] <mdamt> Any plan to change it?
[12:00] <Mithrandir> not really, unless something better comes along.
[12:01] <mdamt> Ok, hope this something can come out this week :-)
[12:02] <Mithrandir> oh, anything interesting happening which I should be aware of?
[12:05] <mdamt> Well something about input method. We're trying to get it out this week. Watch planet.maemo.org :-)
[12:06] <Mithrandir> sounds interesting.
[12:51] <Mithrandir> asac: for #129469 to be fixed, do I need to do anything more than change the build-depends and configure.ac?  It doesn't seem like midbrowser-dev ships any shlibs?
[12:51] <asac> Mithrandir: carl wanted to look into it ... i haven't tried, but he claimed changing build-depends and configure.ac causes crashes
[12:52] <Mithrandir> asac: ok, anyway I think midbrowser-dev should ship a shlibs so packages built against it ends up having a dependency on it?
[12:53] <asac> Mithrandir: we don't have soname versioned libs
[12:53] <asac> if it still works i can add it ... 
[12:53] <asac> and the libs are installed in pkglibdir as well
[12:54] <asac> Mithrandir: the main thing about all this is that upstream doesn't support using the shared libs directly ...
[12:54] <Mithrandir> I've read a little bit about it.  I think upstream are approaching this wrongly, but it's not a fight I'm willing to take on.
[12:54] <asac> Mithrandir: the upstream way is to use a static glue which will find and load the proper gecko runtime engine for you
[12:55] <asac> Mithrandir: right ... however we have now xulrunner-1.9 the upstream way and firefox build on top ... and indeed appears to work well
[12:55] <Mithrandir> ok, but we don't want xulrunner 1.9 and firefox both in main, AIUI?
[12:56] <asac> no ... thats just for preview (gutsy+1)
[12:56] <asac> but it shows that it works well and that debian claims that its sooo bad are mostly wrong
[12:56] <Mithrandir> so what do you think is the approach we should take?
[12:57] <asac> Mithrandir: i think the crashes we see are because LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not set for the panel
[12:57] <asac> Mithrandir: and basic flash is just a .so right?
[12:58] <asac> Mithrandir: however carl said if you run the panel with LD_LIBRARY_PATH extended by midbrowser path .... then the whole panel crashed
[12:59] <asac> ... which i find a bit scary ... if you can do a build an verify that extending LD_LIBRARY_PATH really crashes it then i can take a look.
[01:00] <asac> but i always hoped that intel would go ahead and put some effords in it as well :)
[01:00] <Mithrandir> I won't have time for that today, but I could look at it later this week, sure.
[01:00] <Mithrandir> I'll put in on my list of stuff to debug
[01:00] <asac> you don't need to debug ... i just want a senior confirming that behaviour before i start looking into it :)
[01:02] <asac> if the panel really crashes though ... i would appreciate some hints why it might crash when just adding /usr/lib/midbrowser to LD_LIBRARY_PATH ??
[01:02] <Mithrandir> I'd probably do it by adding an rpath for midbrowser to the .so instead, wouldn't that be better?
[01:03] <asac> Mithrandir: that probably won't work ... as the lib you load wants to load more libs that don't have the rpath set
[01:03] <asac> Mithrandir: the only option that would work is to link against all libs explicitly
[01:03] <asac> (only option with LD_LIBRARY_PATH and without using static glue)
[01:03] <asac> s/with/without/
[01:05] <Mithrandir> mhm
[01:05] <Mithrandir> ugh, but ok.
[01:05] <Mithrandir> I'll just test with LD_L_P set
[01:06] <asac> feel free to test rpath as well ... its just that i tried it for something else (can't remember exactly what it was) ... and I ended up linking all libs explicitly
[01:25] <asac> Mithrandir: my image-creator installed chroot is broken atm ... 1. the application menu is so huge that it doesn't fit on screen and if i click on the application switcher arrow in panel it crashes ... is that known?
[01:26] <asac> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/screen1.png
[01:26] <Mithrandir> the second one is known, the first one I didn't know about.-
[01:26] <Mithrandir> s/-//
[01:26] <asac> its a fresh image (created about 14 hours ago ... and just dist-upgraded)
[01:28] <asac> Mithrandir: currently everything is run as root ... how will this be in the end?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> that's on my list of stuff to fix this week
[01:29] <asac> oh cool
[01:36] <Mithrandir> kwwii_: have you looked at the UI for dates and tasks and contacts?  At least some people like the openmoko screenshots better than the maemo ones; do you know how much of this can be done with theming and what'll require code changes?
[01:36] <Mithrandir> kwwii_: or if you have any suggestions as to what the UI should look like.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> kwwii_: I'm not asking you to whip up something, just wondering if you'd already looked at it and had some thoughts.
[01:39] <kwwii> Mithrandir: I have never seen the openmoko stuff but I can take a look
[01:40] <Mithrandir> http://www.pimlico-project.org/dates.html has some screenshots.
[01:41] <kwwii> Mithrandir: the openmoko stuff looks much similar
[01:41] <kwwii> erm
[01:41] <kwwii> simpler
[01:41] <kwwii> but I think that most of that is coding, not theming from the looks
[01:42] <Mithrandir> ok; I guess the shiny buttons and such is just theming though
[03:42] <dholbach> asac: if you have the time, could you check out the bugs on http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring that have 'asac' next to them? most of them should be easy to review, I think
[03:46] <asac> dholbach: yes will upload ... for network-manager we probably don't want that fix
[03:46] <asac> but i am assigned so i will work this out
[03:46] <dholbach> asac: or just comment on the bug
[03:47] <dholbach> so the patch author knows what to fix or that it's not the right thing for gutsy
[03:54] <asac> done.
[08:23] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Just sent you an email regarding apps and what has been choosen.  Can you reply today ?
[08:23] <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Just did
[08:26] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Thanks!
[08:35] <MTecknology> this isn't really specific to mobile, but maybe somebody in here can help? I'm going to a university that doesn't broadcast their SSID. When I go anywhere else that is, I have a flawless time with wireless. They have two sets of SSID's, student1 and student2. What happens is that the network manager never seems to connect to the university wireless so I need to make separate profile for each. Does anybody know any solutions for
[08:35] <MTecknology>  this? I really want to be able to just use the roaming mode for all of my wireless.
[10:33] <bfiller> Mithrandir: are you there?
[10:56] <Mithrandir> bfiller: I am now
[10:56] <bfiller> I wanted to ask you how to use dput if you only have a .deb and not a .changes
[10:57] <bfiller> Mithrandir: should we just copy the .deb to our repository?
[10:57] <Mithrandir> that's one way, sure.
[10:58] <bfiller> Mithrandir: ok. wanted to make sure there wasn't a "preferred" way :)
[10:59] <Mithrandir> bfiller: the preferred way is to build the .deb so you do have a .changes
[11:00] <bfiller> Mithrandir: the package in question here is Skype. They only have a .deb on there site and no source to build from
[11:00] <bfiller> Mithrandir: we want to include it in our repo and add it to our fset
[11:00] <Mithrandir> ah, then just including it ought to work.
[11:03] <mdamt> Where can I see the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS env used in UME package builder?
[11:16] <Mithrandir> mdamt: they're unset.
[11:16] <mdamt> Ok thanks.
[11:17] <mdamt> And maemo-launcher support is not enabled either?
[11:24] <bspencer_> no agolivera today
[11:33] <Mithrandir> mdamt: no.
[11:33] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm off to bed.
[12:15] <HappyCamp> asac, you online?
[12:16] <asac> HappyCamp: what about?
[12:16] <HappyCamp> I just sent you an email regarding a bug we are seeing with regards to network-manager.
[12:16] <HappyCamp> I attached a patch file that I think fixes the issue.
[12:17] <asac> HappyCamp: the mail send to mobile list?
[12:17] <HappyCamp> Basically network-manager is doing dbus restarts in the postinstall script, even though we have setup a policy-rc.d file that says that services should not run.
[12:17] <HappyCamp> asac, yep.  I also CCed you directly
[12:17] <HappyCamp> It's a fairly simple change to the postinst script.
[12:17] <asac> "Patch to fix network-manager bug" ?? there is no CC 
[12:18] <HappyCamp> I CCed you and the ubuntu-mobile mailing list
[12:19] <HappyCamp> I'm guessing you received it?  It was to ubuntu-mobile and to you at your @ubuntu.com email.
[12:19] <asac> yes i received the mail with subject above
[12:19] <asac> with lsbfix.patch
[12:20] <HappyCamp> That was from Todd.  I sent my own patch which I think might be better.
[12:20] <HappyCamp> My patch is to network-manager  debian/network-manager.postinst
[12:20] <asac> ok i have it
[12:21] <HappyCamp> Good :)  I was worried our mail servers sucked.
[12:21] <HappyCamp> I'd be interested to hear feedback on the patch.
[12:21] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: I take it you removed the restart of the network server?
[12:22] <ToddBrandt> oh, never mind, I see your patch
[12:22] <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt, I made it honor if we have a /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d file which says, don't start services.
[12:22] <HappyCamp> Which unfortunately network-manager currently will try to restart dbus services even if we don't want services to be changed.
[12:23] <ToddBrandt> ok, yea that's another angle at the bug, it's both there and in lsb-base
[12:23] <HappyCamp> asac the diff is to network-manager-(0.6.5-0ubuntu9
[12:24] <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir said he was going to have one of their NM guys look at it but that will speed things up
[12:24] <HappyCamp> So lsb-base has a bug where it does post-install service stuff?  Even if we don't want it to?
[12:24] <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt, I think asac is one of the Network Manager guy, well at least based on the changelog I am looking at.
[12:25] <asac> yes probably 
[12:25] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: no it doesn't properly handle the case where tput returns a bad value
[12:25] <asac> ... you don't want dbus to be restarted? how does that fix the bug Todd's patch tried to tackle?
[12:26] <ToddBrandt> There's probably a thrid bug here too, somewhere in mobin-image-creator that causes the terminal characteristics to be muddled during an fset install
[12:26] <HappyCamp> asac, No idea on Todd's bug.  Todd's patch is probably a perfectly good patch.  I am just trying to fix the issue where services are getting restarted even though in our case we don't want it to.
[12:27] <asac> ok i thought because you replied to his patch mail it tries to replace that patch
[12:28] <HappyCamp> I was guessing that if my patch worked then lsb-base would not be getting involved.  But to be honest I don't know if that is the case.
[12:29] <asac> HappyCamp: what breaks for you because nm is restarting dbus?
[12:29] <HappyCamp> asac, Not that.  I think it breaks because of the last two things, where it restarts some of the dbus specific components.  If  that makes sense.
[12:30] <HappyCamp> This: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager restart
[12:30] <HappyCamp> and this: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/26NetworkManagerDispatcher restart
[12:30] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: actually the bug is seen any time a service is stopped, started, or restarted from within package being installed/removed by moblin-image-creator
[12:30] <asac> HappyCamp: well ... we have to restart networkmanager in postinst
[12:30] <HappyCamp> I think mess us up.  The dbus service itself is called via invoke-rc.d which honors the policy-rc.d file.
[12:30] <HappyCamp> asac not if I don't want it to restart in my chroot.
[12:31] <asac> when don't you want that?
[12:31] <HappyCamp> I would think, if I don't want it to restart in my chroot then it should not.
[12:31] <asac> i mean postinst is invoked when you receive a software update
[12:31] <HappyCamp> Moblin Image Creator is doing it inside a chroot environement.
[12:31] <asac> so it needs to restart
[12:32] <HappyCamp> Okay, maybe I am confused.  I want to stop it when we install the package.  Which I thought was when postinst gets called.
[12:32] <asac> yes, but that doesn't matter much ... the nm service needs to be restarted
[12:32] <HappyCamp> My patch should not affect anything except for the case when invoke-rc.d says don't install.
[12:32] <asac> HappyCamp: do you don't want to start it if its not running before?
[12:32] <HappyCamp> asac, Even in a chroot?
[12:33] <HappyCamp> I don't want anything things to be running in my chroot, service wise.
[12:33] <asac> HappyCamp: if you don't restart it in a chroot you cannot test it ... 
[12:33] <HappyCamp> Well we have created /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d to return 101
[12:33] <HappyCamp> Which means that services should not be run.
[12:33] <asac> but we are already running dbus in that chroot, right?
[12:33] <HappyCamp> We did this because a lot of applications do a postinstall script which dies when we are doing our install.
[12:34] <HappyCamp> I don't think dbus should get started, unless we are doing it when we do a terminal.
[12:34] <HappyCamp> But that would not be during the install.  Currently our installs our broken.
[12:35] <HappyCamp> Now I don't know for sure if dbus is or is not getting started when we install it.
[12:35] <asac> hmm
[12:37] <asac> ok i am a bit unsure at the moment ... but its late so this doesn't really mean a thing :)
[12:37] <asac> i will take a second look tomorrow and if good apply it
[12:37] <HappyCamp> asac, We can wait until tomorrow.  No problem.
[12:37] <HappyCamp> I just wanted network-manager to honor us using /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d   even if maybe we shouldn't be using it in such a blanket method.
[12:38] <asac> how critical is that?
[12:38] <asac> i mean i think it should be ok to have this in network-manager ... but i would like to batch this with the next upload i have to do anyways
[12:38] <HappyCamp> Well we haven't been able to automatically build images since Thursday.  We have a workaround (manually install network-manager) but we would appreciate it getting fixed.
[12:38] <asac> ok
[12:39] <asac> why did it break since thursday?
[12:39] <asac> what has changed?
[12:39] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, changed the ubuntu-mobile package, I think.
[12:39] <HappyCamp> To bring in network-manager.
[12:39] <asac> ok ... good
[12:39] <asac> (or not so good :))
[12:39] <HappyCamp> Before we weren't using network-manager.
[12:40] <HappyCamp> Thanks for your help.  Have a good night.
[12:41] <asac> HappyCamp: have you tested if it breaks anything in normal gutsy install?
[12:44] <HappyCamp> asac, I tried it on my gutsy system:  sh ./network-manager.postinst configure
[12:44] <asac> ok
[12:44] <HappyCamp> And that worked.  But no, have not done a complete install :(
[12:44] <asac> no thats fine then
[12:47] <asac> HappyCamp: next time please submit a bug and maybe send a mailing list nag mail :)
[12:48] <HappyCamp> asac, Okay.  Will do.  I'm guessing bugs are on launchpad.net ??
[12:48] <asac> butits fine now :)
[12:48] <asac> HappyCamp: yes
[12:48] <asac> bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s ... %s=sourcepackagename
[12:50] <HappyCamp> asac, thanks