[02:28] <beuno> nixternal, mdke, anyone one who added "Mario Danic" to the planet?
[02:28] <beuno> theres spam all over it
[02:35] <nixternal> I just noticed that when I opened akregator
[02:35] <popey> looks like his domain expired
[02:35] <popey> will email him to let him know
[02:35] <popey> (on his gmail account registered in launchpad)
[02:36] <beuno> popey, I'm pushing the changes too  :D
[02:36] <beuno> how did he get on the planet not being an ubuntu member?
[02:36] <nixternal> I am going to temporarily #comment out his account
[02:37] <beuno> nixternal:
[02:37] <beuno> beuno@beuno-laptop:~/ubuntu/planet-ubuntu$ bzr push sftp://beuno@bazaar.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/config/main
[02:37] <beuno> Pushed up to revision 287.
[02:37] <beuno> removed
[02:37] <beuno> :D
[02:37] <beuno> popey, ^
[02:37] <popey> hem
[02:37] <popey> meh even
[02:37] <nixternal> ok, thanks
[02:37] <popey> beat me to it :)
[02:37] <beuno> how did he get on the planet in the first place?
[02:37] <popey> wel
[02:37] <nixternal> isn't he a dev?
[02:37] <beuno> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/config/main/revision?start_revid=mario%40frugal-20060924115213-7fe29619f099b85e&file_id=config.ini-20060801091459-2bb99d9d3e935c01
[02:37] <popey> likely his domain just expired thats all
[02:37] <beuno> theres the revision
[02:37] <popey> nothing nefarious
[02:38] <beuno> right, just curious
[02:38] <nixternal> ahh, that is pygi, he should have been removed months ago when he quit working on edubuntu
[02:38] <beuno> (that also makes me think if expired memberships should be removed or not from the planet)
[02:38] <nixternal> beuno: just remove his account totally...he isn't a member anymore I don't think
[02:38] <nixternal> I think he quit everything
[02:39] <popey> expire: 2008-09-03 13:17:41 (registry time)
[02:39] <popey> his domain expired 3 days ago
[02:39] <popey> picked up by search spammers
[02:39] <beuno> right, quick bastards
[02:41] <beuno> we should send an email *somewhere* so we can discuss if expired members get their blogs removed  (I think it makes sense)
[02:42] <popey> rt@admin.canonical.com and cc: Marios gmail account as specified in launchpad?
[02:43] <beuno> popey, that would be the procedure to remove his blog I believe (although in this case I think it's pretty clear it should be removed first)
[02:43] <beuno> I send an email now
[02:43] <popey> problem is that it's not the result of Mario being an ex-ubuntu person, but the fact that his domain expired.. which is something different
[02:43] <popey> i.e. if my domain expired (it has happened) then I'd expect people to remove mine
[02:43] <beuno> right, the other one isn't related, just popped into my head  :D
[02:43] <popey> or let me know :)
[02:43] <popey> ahhh
[02:44] <popey> nn
[02:44] <beuno> heh
[02:44] <beuno> sleep well popey
[08:22] <mdke> beuno: given that continuing ubuntu membership doesn't really require continuous contribution to Ubuntu, there's no real value in insisting people are removed from planet when they stop working on ubuntu
[08:51] <popey> morning mdke
[08:52] <mdke> morning popey
[08:52] <popey> i thought  membership was supposed to "run out" after 2 years unless you go back to the CC?
[08:52] <mdke> popey: so did I, but actually what seems to happen is that it's indefinitely renewable by the individual
[08:53] <mdke> apparently that is intentional, even though I personally don't like it much
[08:54] <popey> hmm
[08:54] <popey> ah well
[08:54] <popey> :)
[08:54] <mdke> wow, pavarotti died
[08:54] <popey> yeah
[09:55] <popey> ftp://ftp.freiesmagazin.de/2007/freiesMagazin-2007-09.pdf wow - what a really well done magazine
[10:44] <popey> another screencast goes live \o/
[02:03] <popey> can someone tell me what email address is assigned to my user under drupal on the fridge
[04:09] <beuno> popey, alan_at_popey.com
[04:09] <popey> hmm, I am not getting the password reminders
[04:10] <popey> could someone please reset my password and tell me what it is?
[04:10] <beuno> mdke, I'm not sure perpetual membership is the best idea either...    myabe it was implemented because of the lack of time of the CC?   streamlined membership should take care of that
[04:15] <Rinchen> popey, do you need a pw reset on fridge?
[04:17] <popey> Rinchen: beuno just did it, thank you
[04:17] <Rinchen> great, thanks
[04:36] <tck> popey, just isn't happening
[04:47] <popey> tck: eh?
[04:49] <tck> in regards to list
[04:49] <popey> ahhh
[04:49] <popey> patience is a virtue
[04:49] <tck> i was told two days ago it would be done , thats after 2 weeks
[04:50] <popey> I'd demand a refund if I was you
[04:50] <tck> sure
[04:50] <tck> definitely
[04:50] <tck> its about perception
[04:50] <tck> and if locos have to go through hoops everytime to get something minor as this, they'll just give up
[04:51] <popey> well, that clearly isn't the case is it
[04:51] <popey> and you're not going through any hoops
[04:51] <tck> im very determined ;)
[04:51] <popey> you're waiting
[04:51] <popey> no, i mean, there are lots of loco teams
[04:51] <popey> so this clearly isn't a major deal that lots of people give up is it?
[04:51] <tck> i doubt people had to wait this long popey not even yourself
[04:52] <popey> how long have you been waiting?
[04:52] <tck> which lists did you get, screen casts?
[04:52] <popey> yes
[04:52] <tck> aug 19th
[04:52] <popey> I honestly don't recall how long I waited, i just sent the message off and left it
[04:52] <beuno> tck, I waited around 2 months for the -ar list
[04:52] <tck> ar ?
[04:53] <popey> Argentina
[04:53] <tck> ouch :P
[04:53] <tck> it prob. takes under 10 mins to set a list up
[04:54] <popey> i can see from both sides
[04:54] <popey> i am one of the administrators for lug.org.uk, and we setup mailman accounts for UK LUGs
[04:54] <popey> and we don't do it "in 10 mins"
[04:55] <tck> well from first notice to creationg prob. not
[04:55] <tck> but the actual process of doing it, once you know it has to be created
[04:55] <tck> *Creation
[04:56] <beuno> tck, I believe it has to do woth the queue of things in front of it then the time it actually takes to create it
[04:56] <popey> well, for us, yes, it doesn't take _that_ long of course
[04:56] <tck> beuno, i agree
[04:56] <popey> indeed, plus the other things the people have to do
[04:56] <popey> priorities
[04:56] <tck> this is why i think something has to change, like set aside the work for somebody else
[04:56] <tck> beuno, waiting two months for your loco list is ridiculous
[04:57] <beuno> tck, I've read that jono is working on that
[04:57] <tck> beuno, ok
[04:58] <popey> tck: what do you think should be delayed so they can work through mailing lists?
[04:58] <Rinchen> W00t!
[04:58] <popey> the release, security updates?
[04:59] <beuno> yay!
[04:59] <popey> heh
[04:59] <popey> whats being done to it?
[04:59] <Rinchen> Nothing will make my dancing less awkward :-)
[04:59] <popey> some bug fixes?
[04:59] <popey> any of you lot going to UDS?
[05:00] <Rinchen> Well, we're going to start with the raft of bug fixes and theme improvements.  Then, we've been given the go ahead to look at revamping it completely.
[05:00] <Rinchen> I'll be at UDS but probably just the last day, I have other meetings during that time.
[05:01] <Rinchen> Alan, let's make sure to meetup. mrevell-tea will be there too
[05:01] <tck> popey, nothing should be delayed, but if jono wants somebody to look after, contribute or help out in anyway
[05:01] <tck> i want to help
[05:01] <tck> so for loco teams in the future can get going quickly
[05:01] <mrevell> popey, Rinchen: Yep, a meet-up would be good.
[05:05] <mrevell> popey: Good to hear you'll be at UDS, btw. Schwuk'll be there too, Mirco, Jono ... quite a few LugRadio types :)
[05:05] <popey> yay
[05:09] <Rinchen> I just hope he doesn't start doing backflips over the beds.  hehe
[10:01] <mdke> beuno: no, apparently it is policy
[10:02] <beuno> mdke, aaah, weird, but I'm sure there's a reason, thanks for the info  :D
[10:03] <Rinchen> well, we're going to fix that via launchpad :-)
[10:03] <mdke> beuno: well, I'm not sure, but still
[10:03] <Rinchen> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/team-mailing-lists-schema-changes
[10:04] <Rinchen> Should be available by the end of the year
[10:04] <mdke> I don't think that's related, unless I missed a part of the discussion
[10:05] <beuno> mdke, I think that ties in with tck's conversation
[10:05] <Rinchen> ah sorry, I missed part of it while rebooting. I thought you were discussing the mailing list issue. My bad.
[10:05] <mdke> ah, I hadn't caught up on the scrollback
[10:07] <mdke> ooh. This Canonical queue sounds interesting. I'd like to have documentation on there
[10:07] <mdke> how does it work?
[10:08] <mdke> Rinchen: ^
[10:08] <Rinchen> mailing lists or the queue?
[10:08] <mdke> the queue
[10:09] <Rinchen> well, I plan out with all the teams their commitments to each release.
[10:09] <Rinchen> e.g. this release:
[10:09] <Rinchen> https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+milestone/1.1.9
[10:09] <mdke> launchpad teams or all Canonical teams?
[10:09] <Rinchen> all teams can use it but this the Launchpad specific area
[10:09] <Rinchen> btw, I use edge for testing
[10:10] <mdke> right. presumably the fridge is a non-launchpad area
[10:10] <Rinchen> so you can drop edge if you want the normal view
[10:10] <Rinchen> yes
[10:10] <Rinchen> So you can setup milestones, dependencies, etc.... anyone can
[10:10] <Rinchen> and mailing lists will be associated with each team if they want them
[10:10] <Rinchen> not sure if that covered your exact question
[10:11] <mdke> no, i mean this concept of bumping projects up in the Canonical queue you mentioned
[10:11] <Rinchen> OH!
[10:11] <Rinchen> hehe sorry
[10:11] <mdke> it sounds like there is a way for projects to have more or less importance
[10:12] <Rinchen> it's my way of saying that I've increased the priority given to the Fridge by Canonical resources
[10:12] <Rinchen> there is no "queue" per se
[10:12] <mdke> oh ok
[10:12] <mdke> still, interesting...
[10:12] <Rinchen> I wrote a big note about how the Fridge needs love and it got attention.
[10:13] <Rinchen> I made a convincing argument when I included fridge-like urls that are doing news and such.
[10:14] <Rinchen> and the fact that nixternal's theme improvements have not yet been applied.  etc
[10:15] <mdke> you mean other sites?
[10:17] <mdke> sounds cool
[10:17] <Rinchen> yes... ubuntunew.something, etc.  I found a few of the big ones
[10:17] <mdke> we have loads of those for documentation :)
[10:17] <Rinchen> indeed :-)
[10:18] <Rinchen> So the short term goal is to fix all the bugs and theme
[10:18] <Rinchen> the longer term goal is work on proposals for overhauling the fridge
[10:18] <mdke> cool
[10:18] <mdke> we definitely need some of that love for documentation
[10:38] <popey> so those of us who are going should blog on the fridge?
[10:38] <popey> maybe it should be?
[10:39] <beuno> popey, that's actually an interesting idea...
[10:39] <popey> also note that each person who has a logon to the fridge _has_ a blog on the fridge
[10:39] <popey> which they can elect to promote to the front page
[10:39] <beuno> although it would duplicate information for those of us who already have it syndicated seperatly
[10:39] <popey> "it"?
[10:40] <beuno> the fridge and planet
[10:40] <mdke> summaries of each day would be really helpful
[10:40] <beuno> mdke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingUbuntuDevelopmentConferences
[10:40] <beuno> I have a spec for that  :D
[10:41] <Rinchen> beuno, re: UDS info zone - yeah, that would be nifty
[10:41] <beuno> so if I don't manage to go, I'll need to find a few volunteers to help me get that done
[10:41] <mdke> good one; lately the ubuntu development process has become so focused on the conferences and specs that it's difficult to follow sometimes
[10:41] <popey> how about creating a category on the fridge, and only subscribing that to planet ubuntu?
[10:41] <popey> so not every article appears
[10:41] <popey> plus you can subscribe it and then remove it after
[10:42] <Rinchen> We did summaries on the Fridge a while back. UDS MTV maybe? Sometime before I joined the editors team
[10:42] <beuno> I actually think having the fridge syndicated on the planet is a good idea
[10:42] <popey> we don't get enough articles on fridge to make it spammy on the planet
[10:42] <beuno> Rinchen, yeap, although I personally would love to have videos to understand why some decisions where made
[10:43] <Rinchen> popey, can I ask a favour?  Can you update  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Rejuvenate   with your ideas and pass this to fridge-devel please?
[10:43] <Rinchen> I'd like to get some comments going there
[10:43] <popey> I will gladly take a video camera and record every talk I am in
[10:43] <popey> if I have enough tapes
[10:43] <beuno> the last UDS was a complete mystery to everybody who didn't attend. All we know is that jono spelt on a couch
[10:43] <popey> hahah
[10:43] <Rinchen> hehe
[10:44] <popey> http://jonobaconfanclub.co.uk/ :)
[10:44] <Rinchen> When the loco team folks are the UDS, they usually blog about the events
[10:44] <beuno> or slept  :p
[10:44] <popey> my fault, sorry
[10:44] <beuno> hahahaaaaaaaaaaa
[10:44] <Rinchen> well at least his mouth isn't open
[10:44] <popey> marquee and blink are ironic I hasten to add
[10:44] <beuno> I did not know about that!
[10:45] <beuno> popey, it would rick if you could record them!
[10:45] <popey> well, each one is an hour, there are ~7 hours in a day for 5 days, so thats 35 tapes
[10:46] <Rinchen> popey, idea:
[10:46] <beuno> popey, the idea would be to divide the task among 3 or 4 people at least
[10:46] <Rinchen> Canonical has an icecast service setup internally. We may be able to extend that for the UDS
[10:46] <Rinchen> You'd have to talk to Jono about that though.  Not my area.
[10:46] <popey> ok, so a few people with cameras
[10:46] <popey> some people don't like being on camera
[10:47] <popey> would be worth asking canonical if they mind
[10:47] <beuno> yes, and even video streaming would be nice, they have that setup very nicely at debconf
[10:47] <popey> it could be that development is stifled if people are on camera and they feel they cant talk frankly
[10:48] <Rinchen> popey, actually, I'm going to email about the rejuv page
[10:48] <Rinchen> but I hope you can contribute to it
[10:48] <beuno> popey, I saw a talk a few weeks ago Mark gave in 2005 in which he said "all of Ubuntu's development is done in the open, nothing behind closed doors or private lists"
[10:48] <Rinchen> Pretty please with sugar on top
[10:48] <beuno> so I expect UDS have the same spirit :D
[10:48] <popey> hahaahah
[10:49] <popey> i am pretty sure that one of the teams (desktop or distro) had a meeting today where they decided that alternate meetings would be private
[10:49] <beuno> and since the next release is going to be LTS, I think it's even more critical that it's well recorded
[10:49] <beuno> oh, not good
[10:50] <beuno> not good at all...
[10:51] <popey> #ubuntu-meeting today
[10:52] <popey> 12:24:03 < kwwii> right, ok...let's just plan every second meeting to be private then
[10:53] <beuno> did they agree?
[10:53] <popey> i believe so
[10:53] <popey> that was 12:24 BST which is 11:24 UTC
[10:57] <beuno> < cjwatson> my team is trying out 50/50 FWIW
[10:57] <beuno> aaaaargh...
[10:58] <beuno> I'll have to start emailing people now...
[10:58] <beuno> :(
[10:59] <beuno> mdke, you're CC, how should I bring up this subject?
[11:03] <beuno> hmmm...  and also much of what they talk about is in a Canonical's wiki, which isn't publicly available either...
[11:15] <Rinchen> ok email sent
[11:16] <popey> to?
[11:16] <Rinchen> fridge-devel
[11:17] <Rinchen> and why is the topic locked on #ubuntu-fridge?
[11:18] <popey> it is?
[11:19] <popey> no
[11:19] <popey> hmm, now I have to remember how to deop
[11:19] <beuno> popey, -nick in the same command
[11:20] <popey> que?
[11:20] <beuno> popey, /msg nickserv op -popey #ubuntu-fridge
[11:20] <popey> ahh
[11:21] <popey> nope
[11:21] <beuno> or: /deop popey #ubuntu-fridge
[11:21] <popey> that got it!
[11:21] <beuno> :D
[11:21] <popey> Rinchen: feel free to change the topic :)
[11:24] <Rinchen> I'm not allowed
[11:24] <Rinchen> * #ubuntu-fridge :You need to be a channel operator to do that
[11:24] <popey> go for it
[11:25] <Rinchen> whoa
[11:25] <Rinchen> coool
[11:25] <Rinchen> maybe I should bow down now
[11:25] <popey> AIUI anyone with an ubuntu or canonical cloak can op themselves in #ubuntu-* channels
[11:26] <beuno> really??
[11:26] <beuno> oh
[11:26] <beuno> interesting...
[11:26] <popey> :)
[11:26] <popey> perk of being an ubuntu member and/or canonical employee
[11:28] <Rinchen> wow
[11:28] <beuno> that should be known a but more, shouldn't it?   I've been in situations a couple of times in #ubuntu* channels in which I had to find an op for some spammer
[11:29] <beuno> s/but/bit  :p
[11:29] <beuno> my keyboard hates me today
[11:29] <popey> well, at least I now feel useful being here :)
[11:29] <Rinchen> sweet op all works
[11:30] <Rinchen> doesn't seem to work on -meeting though
[11:30] <Rinchen> but that's quite alright.
[11:31] <Rinchen> I was just annoyed that fridge editors didn't have access the #ubuntu-fridge
[11:31] <Rinchen> s/the/to
[11:31] <popey> -meeting might be special;
[11:32] <popey> works for me
[11:32] <popey> 22:32:12 -!- mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o popey]  by ChanServ
[11:33] <Rinchen> kinda sucks that I lost my ubuntu members cloak when I joined Canonical. I'm still on the  LP team but Canonical overrides it.
[11:33] <Rinchen> otoh, I have a huge cloak as is
[11:34] <beuno> I don't have access to -meeting either
[11:35] <Rinchen> in my case, i don't need it. :-)
[11:36] <Rinchen> Paul never answered my request for help on this channel either. I'm beginning to wonder if he's alive.
[11:36] <mdke> beuno: sorry, I'll try and catch up on the scrollback, not sure what you're talking about
[11:36] <Rinchen> I hope he is.
[11:36] <popey> mdke: i was in a meeting of the (distro perhaps) team who said they were alternating between public and private meetings
[11:36] <popey> beuno said he recalled that mark has commented that ubuntu conducts everything in public
[11:36] <beuno> it's on video  :D
[11:37] <mdke> what's the reason for the privacy?
[11:37] <popey> dunno, it was in -meeting today at 12:40 BST
[11:38] <popey> keybuk and cjwatson discussed it
[11:38] <beuno> mdke, I read through the log and they don't specify a reason, they just all implicetly agree some parts should be held on private, I assume it had been discussed before
[11:38] <popey> do you have the log or would you like me to spit mine out?
[11:38] <popey> oh, you found an online copy of the log beuno ?
[11:39] <mdke> I can't see it on fabbione's logs
[11:39] <beuno> popey, I'm with irssi so I jus scrolled back too  :p
[11:40] <mdke> to be honest, I was thinking recently that more publicity is needed for distro meetings, not less
[11:40] <mdke> there is very little by way of summaries sent around, it only happens occasionally afaics, although I may be missing something
[11:40] <beuno> mdke, fabbione's logs don't go that far yet
[11:40] <popey> http://popey.com/attachments/%23ubuntu-meeting.log
[11:40] <popey> 12:40 today
[11:41] <popey> 12:15:36 < Keybuk> and the next meeting question is whether you think the meeting should be public or private?
[11:41] <beuno> 08:16 < Mithrandir> agreed, public is better, we can have private meetings in between or switch to 50/50 if we end up having lots of private things coming up
[11:42] <beuno> and:
[11:42] <beuno> 08:27 < Keybuk> next up; you should have all seen the Team Mission?  It's up on the Canonical wiki now, and is the same text as that I mailed out to you all
[11:42] <beuno> 08:28 < Keybuk> if not, have a quick read over it now :)
[11:42] <beuno> 08:28 < Keybuk> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuDesktopTeam
[11:42] <beuno> links to the canonical wiki
[11:42] <beuno> which is private
[11:42] <beuno> I already get very annoyed with that in Launchpad
[11:43] <beuno> I can't see many specs that have a blueprint
[11:43] <mdke> here's the reasoning:
[11:43] <mdke> 12:16:33 < Keybuk> but I also understand that the meeting is useful to ask company procedural stuff as well
[11:43] <beuno> so I end up explaining what I want to carlos, he looks it up and tells me if that's what the spec says or not
[11:43] <mdke> sounds like it's for non-development related things
[11:46] <mdke> assuming there are separate meetings to discuss development and separate meetings to discuss company business, that doesn't sound like a problem. But splitting 50:50 on a random basis sounds pretty unreasonable
[11:48] <beuno> mdke, it might be worth looking into it
[11:51] <mdke> emailing -devel would be the way forward, I guess
[11:52] <mdke> no need to be provocative, just to clarify things
[11:52] <beuno> absolutely, I'm sure there are very good reasones
[11:54] <beuno> mdke, will you send off the email or should I?
[11:54] <mdke> beuno: whichever you prefer
[11:56] <beuno> I think you'll be much more diplomatic
[11:56] <beuno> but it's not urgent at all, so sleep well  :D