/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/09/06/#ubuntu-mobile.txt

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mdamtCan I use PPA to build packages for UME?08:08
mdamtHmm I guess no, https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart says it's only for x86 and AMD64....08:09
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dholbachgood morning08:51
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UraeusMithrandir: around?03:24
MithrandirUraeus: I am03:24
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amitkMithrandir: ping05:09
Mithrandirhi amit05:13
amitkMithrandir: Hi. I have to run to the shop to fix an emergency leak in the bathroom. I'll try to make it back before the meeting, but I have sent the spec status in case I don't05:16
Mithrandirok, thanks.05:16
Mithrandirgood luck with fixing the leak. :-)05:17
amitkMithrandir: easier said than done. I have no idea how to fix it :-p 05:17
Mithrandirworst case, call a plumber.05:18
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bfillerMithrandir: question about hildon-desktop from upstream05:23
Mithrandirshoot05:24
bfillerMithrandir: how often do we plan to merge into ubuntu branch? Looks like they've made a bunch of fixes that we proabably want05:24
MithrandirI don't have a schedule for it, I'm happy to take whatever fixes they think are suitable for us05:25
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bfillerMithrandir: ok, I can also take a look at some of the changes and see if it's stuff we need05:26
bfillerMithrandir: one more thing re:hildon-desktop trunk that I see on Lauchpad. Is this imported daily into launchpad or is it linked directly to upstream's source control?05:29
Mithrandirthe vcs-import branch is imported regularly.  I'm not sure exactly how often, but I believe it's every 15 minutes or so05:31
bfillerthanks05:32
smagounMithrandir: I have patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/137346 , which affects xserver-xorg-video-psb. Is that something you can apply? I was hoping bryce would get to it, I haven't seen him around recently though.05:46
Mithrandirsmagoun: there was a bit of discussion about it either on a list or private mail.05:48
MithrandirI can't remember what the conclusion was, though05:48
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smagounMithrandir: There was some discussion on IRC; as I recall the conclusion was that EXA 2.2 (a hw-accelerated X API) wouldn't be backported to gutsy, so the driver needed to be able to work with EXA 2.1.05:55
agoliveiraMeeting in 4?05:56
Mithrandiroh, you have a patch, sorry, I didn't see that bit.  Please send it to bryce and I'll prod him to get it integrated.05:56
Mithrandiragoliveira: yes05:56
Mithrandirbspencer_: morning, do you have your guys awake and present?05:56
agoliveiraThanks. I just had lunch so you won't hear me complaining this time :)05:57
bfilleragoliveira: pre-meeting question for you - a few weeks back you were working on completing the libosso integration (rather than stripping it out). Is this complete?05:57
agoliveiras/hear/see05:57
agoliveirabfiller: Yes, libosso is running at least on a compatibility level. I didn't test it's services tough but dbus wise should work I believe.05:58
Mithrandirasac,kwwii: you guys around?05:58
bfilleragoliveira: ok, thanks. I will ping you later w/some further questions05:59
agoliveirabfiller: no probme.05:59
agoliveiraproblem05:59
asacMithrandir: yes06:00
Mithrandirgood, since we're about to start the meeting, once the Intel guys show up.06:00
bspencer_Mithrandir: morning.  I am my guys06:00
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Mithrandirhi Charlie06:00
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agoliveira"I am my guys" ? Weird... :)06:01
ToddBrandtHello all06:01
ToddBrandtbspencer is all of us06:01
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Mithrandirbspencer_: so you're all present and accounted for then?06:01
bspencer_indeed06:01
CharliefjohnsonMorning folks (at least morning here in Oregon, USA)06:02
Mithrandirok, let's start then06:03
agoliveiraCool. Let's try 1 hour today? :)06:03
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: can you give us an update on the hardware decode bits?06:04
Mithrandirit's marked as not started in LP, I hope that's not correct?06:04
Mithrandir#startmeeting06:04
MootBotMeeting started at 15:55. The chair is Mithrandir.06:04
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 06:04
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  mobile-hw-decode06:04
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-hw-decode 06:04
MithrandirI almost forgot to use the bot. :-)06:04
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: Don't have the updated info.  I'll have to nag Waldo. Sorry.06:04
Mithrandircould you do that and get him to send the status to the list?06:05
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir:OK06:05
Mithrandir[ACTION]  Charliefjohnson to talk with Waldo and get hw decode spec status posted to ubuntu-mobile@06:05
MootBotACTION received:  Charliefjohnson to talk with Waldo and get hw decode spec status posted to ubuntu-mobile@ 06:05
Mithrandirthanks06:05
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  mobile-browser06:05
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-browser 06:05
cwong1Asac has Uploaded a new midbrowser release to gusty. It had a problem but asac has just uploaded a fix. The browser should come up in the new target.06:06
bspencer_really?  great news06:06
asacack06:06
bspencer_what was the problem?06:06
Mithrandircwong1: yay, great.06:06
cwong1We contacted addons owners to add support for midbrowser.  The responses are good so far. If we supply them the patch to install.rdf, they will incorperate it in their package.06:06
asacbspencer_: packaging glitch06:06
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Mithrandircwong1: should you be the assignee for the mobile-browser spec, rather than Bob?06:06
asacbspencer_: uploaded from wrong local bzr branch :)06:06
bspencer_Mithrandir: probably, yes06:06
cwong1Mithrandir: yes06:06
bspencer_asac: I see06:06
CharliefjohnsonSo is the icon on the UI hooked up to launch it ?06:06
cwong1It should06:07
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: from what I've seen on crown beach applications start very slowly.  06:07
Mithrandircwong1: what's your LP username?06:07
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: including calculator06:07
bfillercwong1: is there a .service file to prevent multiple instances from being launched?06:07
cwong1LP?06:07
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: and the browser is the slowest right now.  just fyi.06:07
Charliefjohnsonbspencer_, : you have the libata patch?06:07
HappyCamplaunchpad.net cwong1 06:07
agoliveiracwong1: Launchpad06:07
cwong1cwong106:08
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: I only heard from QA.  I'll check with you about that after . I don't know if they had the libata patch06:08
cwong1bfiller: I done have a .service file yet06:08
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bfillercwong1: but you are planning to, correct?06:08
Charliefjohnsonbspencer_, :If they have the lastest kernel, they should have it.  You'll know it on the install if you don't.06:08
cwong1bfiller: y06:09
cwong1One last thing, we are currently working on a browser plugin to invoke our media player for video, pictures, music, ..etc.06:09
cwong1as the default ...06:09
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Mithrandirok06:10
bspencer_just a note here:  the current plan is to play all media content in the external player, except for flash video.06:10
Mithrandiris that properly documented in the spec?  (I can't remember)06:10
bspencer_if you click a radio link, for example, it opens the media player and starts to play.  Then you have to toggle back to the browser.06:10
bspencer_Mithrandir: not sure.  cwong1 is the owner ;)06:10
cwong1I will double check and if not I will update the doc06:10
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Mithrandirok, good06:11
Mithrandirmoving on then.06:11
Mithrandiramitk: are you back again?06:11
Mithrandirseems not, we'll hopefully catch him later.06:12
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  mobile-graphics06:12
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-graphics 06:12
=== agoliveira hopes Amit didn't drown on the toilet :-D
agoliveiraliterally...06:12
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: could you please give us an update here?  I saw some discussion about EXA 2.2?06:12
CharliefjohnsonOK. We have a current issue with the "psb" driver where it is claiming EXA 2.2 support where xserver 1.3 only has EXA 2.106:13
CharliefjohnsonSo you get no 2D acceleration.06:13
Mithrandirsmagoun here said he had a patch to fix that?06:13
Mithrandir(just before the meeting)06:13
CharliefjohnsonWho is smagoun?06:13
smagounyes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/13734606:14
CharliefjohnsonSo is this now resolved?06:14
smagounCharliefJohnson: I work with bfiller, patm, lenkawell, etc06:14
Mithrandirit's not uploaded, but apparently we have a fix for it available.06:14
smagounThe patch needs to be applied to UME and possibly moblin06:14
CharliefjohnsonI'll look at the bug report.06:15
Mithrandirsmagoun: if you could attach the patch (if you haven't already) that'd be good.06:15
MithrandirI'll notify bryce about it too06:15
CharliefjohnsonAnyway - the redesign to ensure that the psb drm module can be open is complete and they are implementing.06:15
smagounMithrandir:  did that already06:15
Mithrandir[ACTION]  tfheen to talk with Bryce about EXA 2.1 patch for psb X driver06:16
MootBotACTION received:  tfheen to talk with Bryce about EXA 2.1 patch for psb X driver 06:16
CharliefjohnsonI thinik the first 3D capable drop will show up in Nov.06:17
Mithrandirok06:17
CharliefjohnsonThere may be some intermediate drops worth taking, I have to verify that with the team however.06:17
Mithrandirit would be useful so we could test it when we start getting the clutter UI drops happening.06:18
Mithrandirmoving on, we've had reports from Bob about the UI so next up is the USB client stuff06:19
Charliefjohnson"clutter" is the replacement for flash?06:19
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: yes, based on OpenGL06:19
Mithrandirclutter is libclutter, OpenGL library developed by openedhand06:19
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  usb client06:19
MootBotNew Topic:  usb client 06:19
CharliefjohnsonI got a status from them yesterday.  I'll post it to the mailing list.06:20
Mithrandirok, thanks.06:20
Mithrandirany interesting highlights?06:20
CharliefjohnsonI didn't really read it yet. Sorry.  I was in a meeting all day yesterday.06:21
HappyCampCharliefjohnson, http://projects.o-hand.com/  for Clutter info and more.06:21
Mithrandirok, no problem06:21
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  mobile utilities06:21
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile utilities 06:21
MithrandirToddBrandt: do you have a status update for us?06:21
ToddBrandtyea06:22
ToddBrandtAs for the status of specific applets: All existing applets are fully functional except Date & Time, but it should be fully debugged by next week. The volume and screen brightness applets are delayed because they don't yet conform to the hildon status bar applet format (waiting for the owner to send an update)06:22
ToddBrandtThen there's a general issue of gconf settings: most control panel applet functions don't take because the apps on the system aren't listening to the cp applets' gconf keys. I'm creating a spreadsheet with all the them so we can add/change things til we get it right, then I'll maintain it on moblin.org for reference.06:22
ToddBrandtThe second is more interesting, I assume that gconf is the standard of choice, yes?06:23
agoliveiraToddBrandt: You had that on your clipboard all the time didn't you? :)06:23
CharliefjohnsonToddBrandt: Great Update!06:23
ToddBrandtheh, I like to get it right ;)06:23
Mithrandirwhy don't they take?06:23
HappyCampagoliveira, ToddBrandt is our very own "Mavis Bacon" ;)06:23
bfillerToddBrandt: when will the applets show up in the control panel so we can play with them?06:23
ToddBrandtwell the apps have to be listening to the right keys, so some do and some don;t06:23
bspencer_ToddBrandt I think gconf is the default.  I don't know if there is a dbus interface for it.  I recall corba being there and Nokia had some dbus addition, but it wasn't upstream06:23
ToddBrandtbfiller: they're there now, you're not seeing them !?06:24
ToddBrandtthey're in ubuntu-staging 06:24
bfillerToddBrandt: no06:24
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amitkagoliveira: I survived ;)06:24
agoliveiraamitk: Cool ;)06:24
bfillerToddBrandt: I ran image creator yesterday and didn't see them06:24
Mithrandirbfiller: they're in a separate fset06:24
bfillerMithrandir: ah, which one?06:25
ToddBrandtbfiller: yea you have to install the ubuntu-stagin fset06:25
Mithrandirubuntu-staging06:25
bspencer_you have to add it manually, (not part of samsung-full...)06:25
bfillerToddBrandt: thanks, sorry for the confusion06:25
bspencer_bfiller: until they get integrated into ubuntu-mobile.06:25
ToddBrandtno problem :)06:25
Mithrandirgconf in Ubuntu doesn't have a dbus interface, but it does have a CORBA interface.  We should probably kill orbit and just use dbus06:25
bspencer_Mithrandir: I think that is the right thing to do06:26
bspencer_Nokia did this I believe06:26
agoliveira+106:26
bspencer_owner = ToddBrandt  ? 06:26
Mithrandirif he's willing or can be voluntold, sure.06:26
ToddBrandtbspoencer: yea, I'll take it06:26
bspencer_agoliveira doesn't have anything to do I hear ;)06:26
Mithrandir[ACTION]  ToddBrandt to investigate use of DBUS for gconf06:26
MootBotACTION received:  ToddBrandt to investigate use of DBUS for gconf 06:26
bspencer_ToddBrandt cool. 06:26
MithrandirToddBrandt: are you working with HappyCamp on getting the code uploaded?06:27
ToddBrandtMithrandir: did you get that lsb-base patch uploade ?06:27
=== agoliveira remembers to never trust bspencer_
ToddBrandtMithrandir: which code uploaded?06:27
MithrandirToddBrandt: asac fixed it in NM itself.06:27
MithrandirToddBrandt: the control panel applet code.06:27
ToddBrandtMithrandir: asac only fixed half the bug, it will still fail when the package is removed, we need the fix to lsb-base06:28
=== bspencer_ sighs that the bug that broke images is now fixed
Mithrandirhe's your point main for getting stuff into Ubuntu now, and knows how the sponsorship process works.06:28
Mithrandir[ACTION]  tfheen to investigate lsb-base bug which breaks when network-manager is removed06:28
MootBotACTION received:  tfheen to investigate lsb-base bug which breaks when network-manager is removed 06:28
ToddBrandtMithrandir: ok, I'll bug him about that06:28
bspencer_Mithrandir: for network manager, or for everything ?06:28
Mithrandirbspencer_: in general, but if there's something special, I can upload too06:29
HappyCampbspencer_, I think for everything at the moment.  It is so I can become a member of MOTU06:29
asacMithrandir: i am not sure if I should sponsor fixes to lsb-base06:29
asacMithrandir: nm is fine though :)06:29
HappyCampOf couse I just give it to Mithrandir or someone else.06:29
Mithrandirasac: I'll do it.06:29
asacgood.06:29
MithrandirHappyCamp: in the short term, you do.  In the long term, you'll upload yourself.06:29
HappyCampright.06:29
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Mithrandirlet's move on?06:30
ToddBrandtk06:30
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  mobile-image-creation06:30
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-image-creation 06:30
MithrandirHappyCamp: can you give us a status update?06:30
Mithrandiralso, what's your launchpad user ID?  You should be the assignee, not pkl.06:31
HappyCampI have done more bug fixing mainly.06:31
HappyCampI think my lp id is: john-l-villalovos06:31
HappyCampI haven't had a whole lot of time to work on image-creator this week.  We had some other issues come up this week and it has taken up most of my time :(06:32
bspencer_images have been broken since last thursday due to nm bug06:32
bspencer_fsets failed.  But that should work today, I'm guessing06:32
HappyCampI did put in the config file changes and they seem to be working.06:32
bspencer_I've used the ~/.image-creator/image-creator.cfg   -- it works for me06:32
HappyCampExpansion of the config file work and much much better error handling is next.06:32
smagounHappyCamp: is someone working on the save/restore feature we discussed during the sprint?06:33
HappyCampNot yet.  I think there is a bug in bugzilla on it.06:33
HappyCampBut I did get assigned my very own "minion".  So hopefully I can get him up to speed and we can get some of this stuff cranked out soon.06:33
HappyCampsmagoun, https://www.moblin.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9706:34
HappyCampI don't really have much more to add on image-creator.  Anyone have questions?06:34
Mithrandirsounds like things are moving along at a good pace06:35
bspencer_error handling will be nice06:36
Mithrandirindeed, all of the wanted features would be nice06:36
bspencer_esp mine :)06:36
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  mobile-power-thermal-optimizations06:36
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-power-thermal-optimizations 06:36
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: that one's yours.06:36
CharliefjohnsonIs there anything more to discuss here, the patches were integrated into the kernel.  The blueprint was updated a couple of weeks ago so that the only thing adress was the thermal extension.06:37
Mithrandirit says "beta available", which usually means there is still work going into it.06:38
CharliefjohnsonI'll take the action to find out if there is going to be any additional updates.  06:38
amitkCharliefjohnson: What is the schedule to send the patches upstream?06:39
Mithrandir[ACTION]  Charliefjohnson to investigate updates to mobile-power-thermal-optimizations06:39
MootBotACTION received:  Charliefjohnson to investigate updates to mobile-power-thermal-optimizations 06:39
CharliefjohnsonI'll have to check with the guys in India.  I don't have that info close at hand.06:39
Mithrandirif you could do so and report back, that'd be much appreciated.06:40
CharliefjohnsonOK06:41
MithrandirI'd like us to review action items from the last meeting, and get an update on how we ended up deciding to get updates into Ubuntu is actually working.06:41
Mithrandiranybody got any more agenda items?06:42
CharliefjohnsonWas a UI update sent to the mailing list?06:42
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: yes06:42
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amitkare there any more kernel patches pending integration?06:42
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: before 1400 as requested (IIRC)06:42
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  Action items from last meeting06:43
MootBotNew Topic:  Action items from last meeting 06:43
amitkCharliefjohnson: Any updates on schedule for 2D DRM drivers?06:43
Mithrandirbfiller,rusty and bspencer_ were to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way06:43
CharliefjohnsonCan we get the Xterm icon hooked up to xterm ??  It is a pain in the but with no xterm available except by booting to single user mode.06:43
bspencer_Mithrandir: we had a discussion with bfiller, but the task isn't completed06:44
Mithrandirbspencer_: ok, so you want it again for the next week too?06:44
CharliefjohnsonThe graphics drivers and DRM are all part of the same package.  06:44
agoliveiraCharliefjohnson: Ctrl+Alt+F1? :)06:44
bspencer_Mithrandir: yes.  we will report next week06:44
Mithrandir[ACTION]  bfiller, rustyl, bspencer to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way06:44
MootBotACTION received:  bfiller, rustyl, bspencer to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way 06:44
Charliefjohnsonagoliveira: has worked for me.  Just hangs my crown beach.06:45
MithrandirI have reviewed a few specs and sent them back, so that's an ongoing process, but since it's not complete, I earn an ACTION06:45
Mithrandir[ACTION]  tfheen to review and approve specs (2)06:45
MootBotACTION received:  tfheen to review and approve specs (2) 06:45
agoliveiraCharliefjohnson: Oh... I only have the Q1 and works on it.06:45
Charliefjohnsonagoliveira: probably a driver bug.  06:45
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Mithrandiragoliveira: the psb driver is buggy and switching away from X doesn't work.06:46
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: though, I agree getting the icon hooked up would be good.06:46
CharliefjohnsonThere is an updated 2D driver they we need to test.  It might be worth taking.06:46
Mithrandirsure, can you coordinate that with Bryce?06:46
patmCharliefjohnnson, what is new in the updated 2D driver?06:47
CharliefjohnsonIssue: We might have a problem with folks applying patches to the "psb" driver directly in MOBLIN.  06:47
Mithrandirok, moving on the next topic then?06:48
CharliefjohnsonThe team doing the driver doesn't not participate in MOBLIN.  So patches that go there will cause extra merging since MOBLIN is not the source of the driver.06:48
MithrandirHappyCamp: can that be solved by just letting the authorised set of people push to the driver repository?06:48
HappyCampMithrandir, it could, I guess.  If they would want to.  I'm not sure who "they" are.06:49
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir:  It is a bit more complicated than that and become political. :^(06:49
bspencer_political:  Does this have something to do with the Senator from Idaho?06:49
CharliefjohnsonInternal Intel politics.06:50
Mithrandirwell, we need to make sure that nobody commits to the moblin tree without it coming from the relevant group inside intel, right?06:50
agoliveirabspencer_: The one that "loves" cops? :-D06:50
bspencer_:)06:50
Mithrandirthis either means not having the tree there or restricting access somehow.06:50
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: is it contentious for the people writing the driver to be pushing their updates onto the git tree on moblin.org?06:51
CharliefjohnsonYes - Any patches for Graphics (2D or DRM) should be sent to me.  I'll work with the team to incorporating the change. 06:51
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Mithrandirso the tree on moblin.org is pointless, then?06:52
Mithrandiror are you working with an internal git tree which this one is just a branch of?06:53
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir:  For certain components - yes06:53
Mithrandirwhich of those questions was that a yes to?06:53
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir:  This is probably an offline discussion.  06:53
Mithrandirok, we can cover it on the phone later then?06:53
Mithrandirthen I'd like us to move on to the topic of updates from moblin into Ubuntu06:54
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  flow of updates from moblin into Ubuntu06:54
MootBotNew Topic:  flow of updates from moblin into Ubuntu 06:54
Mithrandirwe've covered this a couple of times before, and now we've changed the procedure so HappyCamp should become a MOTU relativetly quickly, and I am less of a bottleneck.06:54
MithrandirHappyCamp: have you had much experience with the process yet, or has that been hampered by the "other stuff" you mentioned above?06:55
HappyCampI've been hampered with the "other stuff" this week.  Hopefully I will be finished with everything today.  And then can get back on the moblin stuff fulltime.06:55
Mithrandirok, good.  I'll raise the topic again next week and we can evaluate how the new process is working?06:56
HappyCampsounds good.06:56
Mithrandiranybody got any other business?06:57
agoliveiraI just want to warn that tomorrow is a holiday here so I won't be available.06:58
CharliefjohnsonApp List - Long discussion yesterday.06:58
Mithrandirah, yes06:58
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  user applications06:58
MootBotNew Topic:  user applications 06:58
agoliveiraFine. Charliefjohnson, do you have any specific questions?06:59
bspencer_just FYI, Peter is Mauri's replacement.  I think some of the discussion is him getting familiar with the application work going on06:59
bspencer_and the email yesterday was to clarify where best to put additional help and not duplicate adilson's work06:59
agoliveirabspencer_: Yes, I've traded a few emails about this yesterday.06:59
CharliefjohnsonPeter is the engineering mgr.  Mauri will continue to be the program mgr I thought.06:59
bspencer_agoliveira: right.  just fyi for those listening06:59
bspencer_Charliefjohnson: yes, true.07:00
agoliveirabspencer_: Sure07:00
bspencer_agoliveira: I'd like to chat with you after this mtg more 07:00
bspencer_or after lunch if you prefer07:00
CharliefjohnsonThe root of the app list email is that Intel mangement wanted a date for when all the apps have been identified.07:00
Mithrandirjust to be clear, engineering manager is roughly what we call technical lead?07:00
agoliveirabspencer_: Sure. I already lunch so we can do just afetr the meeting.07:00
CharliefjohnsonI think with the latest list.  The only apps not identified are the Games.07:00
bspencer_Mithrandir: no, he won't be writing code07:00
bspencer_Mithrandir: more of a director07:00
Mithrandirok07:00
agoliveiraCharliefjohnson: Exaclty. I expect to do it next week.07:01
bspencer_everyone should write one07:01
agoliveiraYou can also keep an eye or subscribe to the wiki page. I try to keep it updated,07:01
bspencer_and we should have a prize for the best game07:01
bspencer_agoliveira: yes, thanks for keeping that up to date.  I use that page here a lot to remind me what is up.07:01
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: you suggested a date about two weeks into the future as a deadline for selection of all applications.  That sounds fine to me, at least.07:01
agoliveirabspencer_: I have several published... for casinos, but it's a game anyway ;)07:02
CharliefjohnsonI have to attend a staff meeting.  So have to bail.  07:02
bspencer_Mithrandir: I have one more topic:  deadlines for October release and what it means to Ubuntu-mobile07:02
bspencer_Mithrandir: / everyone:  sorry if we go over :-\07:02
Mithrandirsee you, Charlie.07:02
Mithrandirok, so no conclusion on user applications as Charlie had to leave.07:03
agoliveiraBTW, would be great if Peter could attend the meeting too.07:03
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  deadlines for October release and implications for UME07:03
MootBotNew Topic:  deadlines for October release and implications for UME 07:03
bspencer_agoliveira: I'll mention that, but I thikn it is rusty and I who will be here usually07:04
bspencer_agoliveira: and Mauri will attend too (she is on vacation)07:04
agoliveirabspencer_: At least ;)07:04
bspencer_Mithrandir: I know there are upcoming deadlines 07:05
bspencer_and I wanted to clarify what kind of expectations or limitations there would be07:05
bspencer_one example:  Clutter UI probably gets done end of Sept.  Is it still possible to make it the default UI for Oct ?07:05
MithrandirWe've been discussing this a fair bit back and forth, both internally and at least with some others.07:05
Mithrandirand I'd like to make 7.10 also be an developer-targetted alpha07:06
agoliveiraMithrandir: This is very reasonable07:06
bspencer_Mithrandir: ok.  Well maybe you could set some dates when changes will be frozen07:07
MithrandirI need to sit and look at the calendar for exactly when freezes should be happening.  7.10 happens on october 18th07:07
bspencer_ok.  Maybe you could share that next week?07:07
Mithrandirmy main problem with making the clutter UI the default is it's going to be useless on menlow hardware until we have 3D support.07:08
MithrandirI'll see what I can do, absolutely.07:08
bspencer_Mithrandir: true.  I have a fallback fro that07:08
bspencer_s/fro/for07:08
Mithrandirinput is much appreciated too, if anybody has any (strong or otherwise) opinions.07:08
bspencer_I think a minimum of 2wks should be used for bug fixing only07:09
bspencer_and we should clairfy the apps and features we expect now07:09
bspencer_(not now as in this meeting)07:09
bfillerbspencer_: I'd like to see navigation work alot better too07:09
bspencer_bfiller: navigation in the home screen or navigation between apps?07:10
bfillerbspencer_: as in being able to get back to home plugin07:10
Mithrandirwe're kinda running out of time for that to happen, but I'll raise it on the mailing list and based on that, we can decide in the meeting next week?07:10
bfillerbspencer_: and not relaunching apps if they are running07:10
bspencer_bfiller: definately.  We will be trying a new idea this week:  jump to home screen instead of drop-deown menu. (like iPhone a little)07:10
bspencer_and yes, no duplicate apps running07:11
bspencer_Mithrandir: ok.07:11
Mithrandir[ACTION]  tfheen to raise scheduling/freezes on mailing list, decision to be taken in next week's meeting07:11
MootBotACTION received:  tfheen to raise scheduling/freezes on mailing list, decision to be taken in next week's meeting 07:11
Mithrandirok, then I think we're out of agenda items.07:11
HappyCamp offtopic: Mithrandir, Has Ubuntu emailed invitiations for UDS yet?07:12
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agoliveir1Sorry... it did drop07:12
bfillerbspencer_: sounds good. I've played with this a little and used keyboard shortcut to get back home as well07:12
ian_brasilHappyCamp: yes07:12
bspencer_bfiller: Alt+D ?07:12
bspencer_:)07:12
MithrandirHappyCamp: argh, no, that's fallen off my list.  It's not meeting thing, so I'll note it on my offline todo list.07:12
HappyCampian_brasil, okay.  Hopefully they went to my manager :)07:12
bfillerbspencer_: right!07:12
Mithrandirian_brasil: no, not really.  Some, but not all.07:13
ian_brasilah, ok..sorry07:13
MithrandirBefore adjourning I'd like to ask everybody to please, please, please remember to post status updates to the list next week as they help keep the meeting somewhat short.  Also, if you would be so kind as to be here on time and not wander in three minutes past, that should make us waste less time.07:14
Mithrandirthanks everybody, adjourned07:14
Mithrandir#endmeeting07:14
MootBotMeeting finished at 17:05.07:14
bspencer_agoliveira: 2 mins for chat?07:15
agoliveir1bspencer_: Sure.07:15
bspencer_ok.  4 apps listed.  We want to put a couple "spare" guys on a few for a few weeks07:16
kwwiioops, sorry guys I was at the store and missed the meeting07:16
bspencer_we'll call it a "surge"07:16
bspencer_then when peace reigns we'll pull them out07:16
agoliveir1bspencer_: Fine07:16
bspencer_kwwii: you lose man07:16
bspencer_agoliveira: Peter had 4 apps listed, one was GPS/Navigation .l07:16
=== agoliveir1 booes kwwii :)
kwwiibspencer_: no doubt - i'll new get to test my new theme :-(07:16
bspencer_s/.1//07:16
bspencer_kwwii: you could send a status to the mailing list.  That would be interesting for me.  I'll try your theme!07:17
kwwiibspencer_: did you get my mail about the missing pieces needed to test the theme ?07:17
agoliveir1bspencer_: That wasn't on the initial specs.07:17
kyleNkwwii, could you include me in th emailings please? thx07:17
kwwiibspencer_: it will not install...it seems that our hildon-theme-tools package is missing a couple of parts07:17
kwwiikyleN: sure, you are on the list right?07:17
bspencer_agoliveir1: right07:18
bspencer_agoliveir1:  so no worries.  We'll maybe see if we can find somehting07:18
kyleNoh, you sent to ubuntu-mobile - I must have missed it07:18
bspencer_agoliveir1:  Office:  abiword.  Can we help there?07:18
bspencer_kwwii: just a sec.  I just want to wrap up woth agoliveir1 first07:18
kwwiikyleN: no, I sent the last email just to bspencer_ because I thought he would know about whether these pieces are missing07:18
kwwiibspencer_: no problem07:18
agoliveir1bspencer_: Abiword is just packing, don't worry. Evince would be a good one.07:19
kyleNcool07:19
agoliveir1bspencer_: Not too hard too as the interface is simple.07:19
agoliveir1Another great help would be in simplifying the OpenOffice interface.07:19
bspencer_agoliveir1: mm... I'm not excited about OO07:20
bspencer_it is so big07:20
bspencer_it is like Mozilla x 407:20
bspencer_not a mobile app07:20
agoliveir1bspencer_: Me neither but it's the only option we have now to support all MS docs and this is on the SoW.07:20
bspencer_agoliveir1:  really?  I'm checking the SOW07:21
agoliveir1And the rest of the chain food there is asking for it :)07:21
bspencer_Maybe we should push back alittle.  Mainly we need a ppt app, right?07:21
bspencer_food chain, not chain food07:21
agoliveir1Yes.07:21
agoliveir1From sharks to mcdonalds :)07:21
bspencer_:)07:22
bspencer_hold on that then, there were two more apps.07:22
bspencer_oh, PDF viewer?07:22
bspencer_and RSS reader07:22
agoliveir1Yes, evince can handle it.07:22
bspencer_maybe we could work on Lafeara07:22
bspencer_is evince PDF?07:23
agoliveir1Already on my list07:23
bspencer_which?07:23
agoliveir1Evince can handle PDF and a lot others.07:23
agoliveir1bspencer_: On my list - RSS reader I mean.07:23
bspencer_I know you have a list, but I want to know which apps you are 100% sure you can Hildonize by end of month.07:23
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bspencer_or 80% :)07:23
agoliveir1bspencer_: It's hard to say but I believe that, not counting things like OO, all of them or almost that.07:24
bspencer_Are you planning to port Lifeaara (sp)07:24
agoliveir1bspencer_: Yes.07:24
bspencer_ok.  We won't do any work there07:24
bspencer_and evince?07:24
agoliveir1That too.07:24
bspencer_k07:24
bspencer_and rdesktop -- what was the conclusion?07:25
agoliveir1It will go in the pot too. I was looking at it today BTW.07:25
bspencer_after using it I like it07:25
bspencer_because it feels so Windows-y  for those Windows people out there07:25
bspencer_and it scaled to 1024x600 very gracefully with no work07:26
agoliveir1bspencer_: I've being hacking on it for almost 3 years so I know a bit or 2 about it ;)07:26
bspencer_sweet07:26
agoliveir1bspencer_: The only limitation is the RDP protocol itself.07:26
bspencer_what about porting the maemo GTK-based VNC application to moblin?   Maybe we can do that07:26
agoliveir1and what we can reverse-engineer from it... which brings me the case of legal that you're afraid...07:27
bspencer_(in addition, on the side)07:27
agoliveir1I woudn't care about vnc now as it requires a server to work on windows and it's much more limited.07:27
bspencer_ah, RDP for rdesktop is reverse engineered and not fully in the clear.07:27
agoliveir1bspencer_: Right.07:27
agoliveir1The RDP spec published does not work on MS implementation.07:28
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bspencer_agoliveira: ok07:29
bspencer_agoliveira: have you triued it with vista?07:30
bspencer_(I only tried with XP)07:30
bspencer_I assume nothing changed.  just wondered.07:30
agoliveirabspencer_: No, I don't have a vista capable of work as server but should work while they don't push RDP to version 6.07:30
bspencer_ok.07:30
bspencer_so are there any othre important apps (besides OO or ppt equivalent) that you would like short-term help with?07:31
agoliveiraEven so you can aways work on RDP 5 and miss a few things like seamless windows.07:31
agoliveirabspencer_: Well, all help you could lend would be great but for now I guess that's it.07:32
bspencer_agoliveira: gnumeric -- you can get that ported by end of Sept too ?  :)07:32
agoliveirabspencer_: Same as abiword. No problem.07:32
bspencer_agoliveira: you da man07:32
agoliveirabspencer_: Tell that to my boos when my next review comes :)07:33
agoliveiras/boos/boss07:33
bspencer_I tell your boos anytime07:33
bspencer_you bring the boos, I'll tell it you're great07:33
=== agoliveira have to type slower :>)
bspencer_agoliveira: ok.  thanks.07:34
agoliveirabspencer_: My pleasure.07:34
agoliveiraLet me know when you can provide any help so I can sync the efforts and avoid duplication.07:34
bspencer_agoliveira: well, aside from OO and GPS I didn't see you needing any help07:35
bspencer_so I won't be providing any07:35
agoliveirabspencer_: It's a matter of time. If you want faster...07:36
bspencer_right, I understand07:36
agoliveiraCool.07:36
kyleNhey agoliveria, question?07:36
kyleNtypo in name notwithstanding ;)07:37
agoliveirakyleN: Sure, if I can help...07:37
kyleNit is about help, as a matter of fact07:37
kyleNI am wondering in general what thought has been given to help in ume, with respect to apps and the system07:38
kyleNis the ubuntu model going to be used?  (yelp and etc.)07:38
kyleNare all apps following that model? 07:38
agoliveiraWell, to tell you the truth, I didn't think about it.07:38
kwwiibspencer_: quick chat about the themeing?07:39
kyleNI think Yelp looks good.07:39
agoliveiraand I guess we won't have time to mess with that right now so it goes down the line :)07:39
kyleNbut, what about apps? is there a standard that they need to know about to fit into the system?07:39
kyleNdown the line is farther away for some folks than others ;)07:39
agoliveirakyleN: In general, if the applciation uses hildon the right way, they fit the interface but there's a few things like dbus messaging that will probably need more hacking later.07:40
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kyleNdoes hildon support a help framework?07:40
agoliveirakyleN: Beats me, sorry. Never looked at it.07:41
kwwiikyleN: it is based on xml with an xslt stylesheet and a utility to install it in the system07:41
kyleNyes, I know how Yelp works07:41
kyleNthx07:41
kyleNI think UME should decide to use it and state it as THE requirement for help07:42
kwwiikyleN: yes, I agree07:42
agoliveirakyleN: I suggest you send this to the ML so we can open a discussion about it.07:43
kyleNand, at the risk of sounding shrill, I think the sooner this decision (or some decision) is taken, thebetter07:43
kyleNOK, I'll do that07:43
kwwiibspencer_: so as far as the themeing goes, I figured out how to create a theme about 8 hours before the documentation came out.07:43
kwwiikyleN: for themeing we will probably need to add a bit of specific info on top of the stuff already online07:44
kyleNkwii, cool. does it handle the points in the spec?07:44
kwwiibspencer_: but after building a theme it fails to install because we are missing "hildon-theme-cacher" which is apparently in the hildon-theme-tools package (but not our version)07:44
kwwiikyleN: yes, it handles them in a pretty basic way07:45
ian_brasilkyleN: i agree07:45
kwwiikyleN: it does not say what each pic does exactly so we might want to add a bit more 07:45
kyleNi noticed the outliner tool helps designer know where to put images07:45
kwwiikyleN: yes, that helps quite a lot in creating a theme actually07:46
kyleNkwwii, yes, I think the theme sdk is a great idea07:46
kwwiibut the colors stuff, for instance, is quite spooky07:46
kyleNthat will help them try out themes and find out what happens07:46
kwwiithere are a lot of names and I still have little idea exactly what each one does07:46
kyleNkwii, that's the difficult part.07:47
kyleNI did make a list of the main image files used today07:47
kwwiiI would like to add a sentence about each color-name and perhaps a screenshot of where exactly that color is used07:47
kwwiikyleN: cool07:48
kyleNit includes everythign on the marquee and on marquee menus and submenus, but not icons07:48
kwwiithe most important thing at this point would be to enable theme switching in our current stuff07:48
kyleNkwwii: yes, theme switching is important07:49
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kwwiikyleN: yeah, the icons are going to be a lot of work as well...it is more down to experience than anything else at this point07:49
kyleNI think a document specifying what themeing is and isn't would be really helpful07:49
kwwiikyleN: yeah, I pretty much stopped working on it because it is unrealistic to continually manually copy over all the pics and files in a running system07:49
kyleNkwwii, do they have to be copied, or could te system just look in the new directory?07:50
kwwiiif we had everything working right it would/should be able to simply create new directories in the right places and allow one to switch back and forth07:51
kwwiias things are now we cannot even install a new theme without doing it by hand07:51
kyleNyes, that's definitely the goal07:51
kyleNwell, it's great that work is going on in this area. I know it's a tedious area07:51
kwwiiI guess bspencer_ would know more about what we need to do to get that working though07:52
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kyleNI think we need a high level plan with milestones and etc 07:52
kwwiiat this point, the plan would be to get the theme-switching working and then to document all the pieces...after that we can document the process for including a theme in a default setup07:53
kyleNgetting it working for theme designer pre-build is probably the highest priority07:53
kyleNwe said opposite things ;)07:53
MithrandirkyleN: for help, would you be willing to spearhead that?07:54
kyleNsure M.07:54
kwwiithe thing is that without the theme-switching capability it is almost impossible to really test a theme otherwise you would have to rebuild the whole system after replacing all the pics and config files in the source07:54
kwwiiand I really need to be able to test things to figure out how it all fits together07:54
MithrandirkyleN: great.  Could you add a blueprint to launchpad and make ubuntu-mobile the approver and then start by writing a spec for it?07:54
Mithrandir(there's a SpecTemplate on the wiki, so base your spec off that)07:55
kyleNkwwii, is that true? couldn't you just put the new files in a target and relaunch in xephyr?07:55
kwwiikyleN: yes but that is a big waste of time07:55
kyleNok, but it tests/exercises slicer, outliner, in other words, the tools the third party theme designer would need to use07:55
kyleNMithrandir, yes07:56
kwwiifor the colors for instance, you have to change one color at a time and then test it...perhaps switching back to the old version to see how it worked07:56
kwwiikyleN: yepp, the tools to create the theme work great and pretty straight forward07:56
kwwiithat part is done, really (thanks nokia!)07:56
kyleNok. do we have a clear "App API" for icon themeing yet?07:57
kwwiikyleN: not sure I get what you mean by app api07:57
kwwiiI do not think that there are any documents which explain what each icon does specifically and where it will appear07:57
kyleNa clear description of how a UME application usees themeable icons - where they go and don't go, etc07:57
kyleNnot what each icon does, but how to write an app that whose icons are themeable 07:58
kwwiithe xdg stuff lists some icons and explains them in decent context but that is only a few of the many icons in the system07:58
kwwiikyleN: ahh, now I see...not sure if that exists or not..I would guess that it simply comes from the gtk code and not something app-specific07:59
kyleNI  might not understand, but I am not talking about what each icon does07:59
kwwiieach app might add special icons, of course08:00
kyleNyes: as in a wiki page that specifies UME requirements for applications with respect to themeable icons08:00
kwwiiyou will probably also find that many apps simply use icons that some developer picked at random 08:00
kyleNyes, and those special icons, to be themable, should go somewhere and not somewhere else, right? 08:00
kyleNlet's say we get user-settable themes really working08:00
kwwiiyes, the places for icons are very well defined08:01
kyleNok.08:01
kyleNusr/share/icons/(theme)... I suppose08:01
kyleNanyway, I'll shut up now ;)08:02
kyleN(gotta go eat - cheers)08:02
kwwiiyes, exactly08:02
kwwiicheers08:02
=== kwwii is off to cook for a birthday party tomorrow...I'll be online but it might take a while for me to respond
bspencer_kwwii: ok.  sorry I stepped away08:17
bspencer_kwwii: does someone own getting hildon-theme-cacher updated?08:17
=== bspencer_ steps away again for breakfast
alek_in_AG1bspencer_, how about no lunch too ?08:34
kwwiibspencer_: I think that it is part of hildon-theme-tools package09:05
bspencer_kwwii: yeah.  do you know what is broken?09:07
bspencer_we have that package 09:07
kwwiibspencer_: in our package there does not appear to be the hildon-theme-cacher part - as far as I can tell it is simply missing09:08
bspencer_yeah, I don't see it09:10
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agoliveiraGentleman, tomorrow is our Independence Day here in Brazil which I'll celebrate sleeping until it hurts (I won this right parading on the streets during the military dictatorship times) so, Im' leaving right on cue and I bid you farewell!10:03
kwwiiagoliveira: have a lot of fun :-)10:03
agoliveirakwwii: I will dream about it :) Bye!10:04
lucasryo10:08
bspencer_lucasr: ping -- I had a question about configuration files in hildon-desktop10:33
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benj3oneIs anyone here experimenting with ARM port yet?10:42
benj3oneI am settling for windows mobile5 on my motoQ at the moment, and it's making me cry :-(11:01
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