[02:00] <shriphani> umm ogra?
[03:00] <moquist> ogra: is it Bad(TM) to run /etc/init.d/something instead of invoke-rc.d?
[03:52] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:57] <_P_P__> hi
[03:57] <sbalneav> Hello
[04:20] <drada> I need help configuring my WMP54GS on a fresh install of Edubuntu, please...
[04:22] <DaSkreech> drada: you can ask in #ubuntu as well the answer will be the same on all versions of *buntu
[04:22] <drada> thanks
[04:32] <joebaker> ogra:  sbalneav:  I just did a Jigdo build of edubuntu i386 server install gutsy and it came up to a 715MB image.
[04:32] <joebaker> That's more that the 700MB limit.  FYI...
[04:32] <joebaker> I should be able to boot it from QEMU though.
[04:33] <joebaker> fyi
[04:36] <sbalneav> heh, well, we'll have some compressing to do, then.
[04:38] <joebaker> Smile...
[10:09] <shriphani> sbalneav: ping
[10:11] <shriphani> ogra: ?
[11:20] <shriphani> ok... I want my request for assistance to be put up on the wiki as: "Assistance needed for Edubuntu Promotion Programme in India"
[12:13] <highvolt1ge> this looks kind of cool: http://blog.daniel-baumann.ch/2007/09/07#20070907_debian-live-web-boot
[12:19] <ogra> lol
[12:25] <moquist> ogra: would it be bad to run '/etc/init.d/moodle restart' in postrm?
[12:25] <ogra> a bit, yes
[12:25] <ogra> whats wrong with update-rc.d ?
[12:25] <moquist> ogra: I haven't checked yet (I was falling asleep at the kb last night) so I don't know how wwwconfig does it, but using invoke-rc.d instead of wwwconfig is causing our hang-on-removal problem.
[12:26] <ogra> (update-rc.d maintains a db so the system always knows what the status *should* be, if you circumvent that by running the initscript directly you produce an inconsistency here)
[12:26] <moquist> It's a weird problem, because postrm itself is completing and exiting, but the parent dpkg process isn't.
[12:27] <ogra> did you look into wwwconfig ? how it does it ?
[12:27] <moquist> does update-rc.d actually start/restart services, or does it just manipulate the startup/shutdown lists?
[12:27] <moquist> ogra: Read above. :)
[12:28] <moquist> Gotta run to work now; I'll start a source build with /etc/init.d/apache2 restart just for testing purposes.
[12:28] <ogra> it restarts as well
[12:28] <moquist> Ah - I didn't know that. Good to know.
[12:29] <ogra> moquist, just add the  true
[12:29] <ogra> err
[12:29] <ogra> || true
[12:29] <ogra> thats what we do elsewhere
[12:30] <moquist> Already have it.
[12:30] <moquist> That's not the problem.
[12:30] <moquist> postrm is completing successfully and exiting with 0.
[12:30] <ogra> but apaches init isnt ?
[12:30] <moquist> seems to be
[12:30] <ogra> err
[12:30] <ogra> wait
[12:30] <moquist> And even if it isn't, we've got || true :)
[12:30] <ogra> you are running *update-rc.d* ?
[12:31] <ogra> (literally)
[12:31] <moquist> Here's what I had: invoke-rc.d ${webserver} reload || true
[12:31] <ogra> ah, k
[12:31] <ogra> you should wrap that in " if [ -e /etc/init.d/${webserver} ] ; then ...; fi" btw
[12:32] <moquist> k
[12:32] <ogra> anyway, go to work, i dont want to hold you up ...
[12:32] <moquist> :)
[12:32] <ogra> (i'll be here the whole day)
[12:32] <moquist> later
[01:10] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[01:10] <ogra> hey hey
[01:11] <sbalneav> 6AM, i'm ready to roll!
[01:11] <sbalneav> :)
[01:17] <ogra> sbalneav, https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/ :(
[01:17] <ogra> i thought edubuntu-bugs is subscribed to all our packges, seems i was wrong
[01:18] <sbalneav> Yeah, it's the bugsquad one that's got all the goodies:
[01:19] <sbalneav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[01:19] <sbalneav> However, for the first URL, I have fixes for 2 of those bugs!!!!
[01:20] <sbalneav> Lets squash 'em!!!!
[01:20] <ogra> which ones ?
[01:20] <ogra> i just talked about the dhcpd one with mjg59
[01:20] <ogra> thats slightly tricky
[01:20] <ogra> but i'll look into it
[01:21] <sbalneav> bug #48212
[01:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 48212 in ltsp "ltsp's dhcpd fails after server is hibernated" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48212
[01:21] <ogra> yeah, that one
[01:21] <sbalneav> Really?  That one seems simple
[01:21] <sbalneav> can't we just add the dhcp3-server onto the end of the restart services tring?
[01:21] <ogra> no
[01:21] <sbalneav> I chatted with jo baker, it works a treat
[01:21] <ogra> /etc/default/acpi-support is a conffile
[01:21] <sbalneav> no?
[01:22] <ogra> it will need proper resume.d and suspend.d scripts
[01:22] <ogra> just changing that file will break upgrades
[01:22] <ogra> (you get a conffile prompt)
[01:23] <sbalneav> ok, so if we add a suspend.d (dhcp3 stop) and resume (dhcp3 start) will that fix it?
[01:23] <ogra> right
[01:23] <ogra> and it needs to go into the dhcpd package then ...
[01:23] <sbalneav> ok, lemme have a look where those fuiles should be put
[01:23] <sbalneav> ok, fair enough, that's simple
[01:24] <ogra> whicjh in turn will need to deped on the package creating suspend.d and resume.d dirs
[01:24] <sbalneav> isnt that one part of the main ubuntu metapackage, and always installed?
[01:25] <ogra> sure, but you cant assume the ubuntu-meta package is there ;)
[01:25] <sbalneav> k
[01:25] <ogra> i.e. you could install a commandline system and just add dhcpd to it
[01:25] <ogra> that would fail if the dirs are missing to put the files in
[01:27] <sbalneav> probably what, 66-dhcpd-stop.sh?
[01:27] <sbalneav> in /etc/acpi/suspend.d
[01:28] <ogra> hmm, not sure
[01:28] <ogra> (about 66)
[01:28] <sbalneav> that'd be right after the stop-services one
[01:28] <ogra> yeah
[01:29] <ogra> make it 65 as well
[01:29] <sbalneav> ok
[01:29] <ogra> its a service too :)
[01:30] <ogra> (i was actually worried that stop-services could kill something dhcpd needs, but thats up to the user anyway)
[01:30] <sbalneav> I assume I should put these two scripts in the debian dir?
[01:30] <sbalneav> and install them from there?
[01:31] <ogra> yeah
[01:32] <sbalneav> btw, some minor refactoring in ltsp-update-images, to fix it so that it doesn't crap out violently if you've run it on a dir that's NOT wanting an nbd image.
[01:32] <sbalneav> in my tree.
[01:34] <ogra> there is a lot that needs to be fixed in ltsp-update-image
[01:34] <ogra> i'll go through that over the weekend
[01:34] <ogra> all the inetd and port handling isnt right as is atm
[01:49] <ogra> boah
[01:49] <ogra> bug 70471 is bad
[01:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 70471 in denemo "Printing doesn't work if xpdf binary isn't installed - denemo should use evince or depend on xpdf" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70471
[01:54] <sbalneav> ogra: got a second to help me here?
[01:55] <ogra> sure
[01:55] <sbalneav> I'm looking at the dhcp3-server package
[01:55] <ogra> whats your prob
[01:56] <sbalneav> I'm wondering what the BEST way to add these files is, the've got some stuff in the rules file that they're just using a cp /debian/blah into the dest, but somehow I suspect that isn't right.
[01:56] <ogra> right
[01:57] <sbalneav> really, I want to list them in dhcp3-server.files
[01:57] <sbalneav> but where to put them so that that phase of dh_whatever finds them?
[01:58] <ogra> .files
[01:58] <sbalneav> right, that i've got.
[01:58] <sbalneav> but WHERE in the directory do I put them?
[01:58] <sbalneav> the startup and shutdown script
[01:58] <sbalneav> hmm
[01:59] <ogra> hmm
[01:59] <ogra> actually i wouldnt object a cp here
[01:59] <ogra> given that the package is already doing pretty crazy stuff
[02:00] <sbalneav> so, stick 'em in debian, and just munge the rules file to do a copy?
[02:00] <ogra> yeah
[02:00] <sbalneav> ok, that I can handle.
[02:00] <ogra> id put them into debian/acpi-scripts or so
[02:00] <sbalneav> ok, makes sense.
[02:01] <ogra> and then just a cp in the install-tsmp target
[02:01] <sbalneav> i suspect I'll learn more about packaging today :)
[02:01] <ogra> *stamp
[02:06] <ogra> gah, denemo is a big bad mess
[02:46] <shriphani> hello.
[02:54] <sbalneav> hello
[03:25] <sbalneav> ogra: Back from snacktime?
[03:26] <ogra> long ago
[03:26] <ogra> discusssing bug 123808 with asac :/
[03:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 123808 in network-manager "NetworkManager Applet does not recognize ethernet bonding.  " [Undecided,Won't fix]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123808
[03:27] <shriphani> hello ogra, sbalneav
[03:28] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[03:28] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[03:28] <sbalneav> ogra: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36686/
[03:29] <sbalneav> hello shriphani
[03:30] <ogra> Closes Bug: 48212
[03:30] <ogra> must be Closes LP: #48212
[03:30] <ogra> that will trigger the auto closing ;)
[03:31] <shriphani> right I made a few slides. Who wants to have a look ?
[03:33] <sbalneav> ok, want me to change it, or you will?
[03:33] <ogra> do it :)
[03:34] <sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36687/
[03:34] <shriphani> dang.
[03:35] <sbalneav> shriphani: post a link.
[03:35] <shriphani> did anyone recieve my last message ?
[03:35] <shriphani> ok..
[03:35] <shriphani> or do I put the odp up for download ?
[03:35] <sbalneav> Well, whatever you prefer.
[03:35] <shriphani> ok.
[03:36] <sbalneav> ogra: it builds and installs correctly
[03:39] <shriphani> where does the dev work take place. i.e. the mailing lists and so on ?
[03:40] <sbalneav> ubuntu-dev mailing list, and this channel and #ubuntu-dev
[03:40] <sbalneav> #ubuntu-devel, sory
[03:41] <sbalneav> the edubuntu-dev mailing list, I should say
[03:41] <sbalneav> geez, makin' mistakes all over.
[03:42] <shriphani> sbalneav: http://shriphani.nipl.net
[03:44] <stpaul> Hi all
[03:44] <stpaul> I am having issues with thin clients not having a gui login
[03:45] <stpaul> it will only show the cursor with an x
[03:45] <ogra> did you fiddle with any settings or is that a default setup ?
[03:45] <stpaul> default setting
[03:46] <stpaul> I am using a amd64 ltspserver setup
[03:46] <stpaul> the onjly thing I change
[03:46] <stpaul> building the client for a i386
[03:52] <stpaul> The thin clients used to have a login gui before
[03:54] <sbalneav> ogra: Thoughts on Bug #38410?
[03:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 38410 in sabayon "sabayon blocks ssh based ltsp logins if not user profiles are created" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38410
[03:55] <sbalneav> Is adding || true on to the end legitimate?
[03:56] <ogra> well
[03:56] <ogra> you might miss a lot of error messages, who knows
[03:56] <ogra> but it would get the thing going finally
[03:57] <ogra> prob with sabayon is that its largely unmaintained ...
[03:57] <sbalneav> I'm suspecting I'll have to take it over :)
[03:57] <ogra> from redhat ?
[03:57] <sbalneav> So can we patch it that way for now?
[03:57] <ogra> heh
[03:58] <sbalneav> I'll just barge into their offices, grab it, and walk out.
[03:58] <sbalneav> They'll all go: "Who was that masked coder"
[03:58] <stpaul> jajajajaa
[03:58] <ogra> lol
[03:59] <sbalneav> ok, I'll produce a debdiff.  We can
[03:59] <ogra> lets just patch it for now and ignore the fact that we might have broken it ...
[03:59] <ogra> we'll hopefully get bugreports if we did
[03:59] <sbalneav> 't keep telling people to use it if it's so badly borken :)
[03:59] <ogra> even though
[03:59] <sbalneav> ok, I'll fix
[03:59] <ogra> what if /usr/sbin/sabayon-apply got fixed instead ?
[04:00] <sbalneav> OK, I'll have a look
[04:00] <sbalneav> see if that's more valid.
[04:00] <ogra> to return 0
[04:00] <sbalneav> it's python, so I should be able to use my python-fu
[04:00] <ogra> that wont break the other returning functions ;)
[04:00] <stpaul> about the thin client gui problem
[04:00] <stpaul> its not an issue anymore
[04:00] <stpaul> it just took to long to lad
[04:00] <ogra> what was it6 ?
[04:01] <stpaul> load
[04:01] <ogra> thats feisty ?
[04:01] <stpaul> yes
[04:01] <ogra> what kind of clients ?
[04:01] <stpaul> dell gx1 optiplex
[04:01] <ogra> heh
[04:01] <ogra> CPU and RAM specs ?
[04:01] <stpaul> 64 ram
[04:01] <stpaul> 333 mhz
[04:01] <ogra> that should be plenty
[04:02] <ogra> are they all the same ?
[04:02] <stpaul> yes
[04:02] <shriphani> sbalneav: ?
[04:02] <sbalneav> See, here's the problem:
[04:02] <stpaul> i have 7 machines
[04:02] <ogra> to speed them up significantly you can use a static xorg.conf
[04:02] <stpaul> with the same specs
[04:02] <sbalneav>             profile_name = userdb.get_database().get_profile (user_name)
[04:02] <sbalneav>             if not profile_name:
[04:02] <sbalneav>                 sys.stderr.write (_("No profile for user '%s' found\n") % user_name)
[04:02] <sbalneav>                 sys.exit (util.EXIT_CODE_FATAL)
[04:03] <ogra> the X autodetection is one of the heviest slowdowns there (we changed such stuff in gutsy)
[04:03] <stpaul> oh ok
[04:03] <ogra> sbalneav, easy
[04:03] <ogra> s/util.EXIT_CODE_FATAL/0/
[04:04] <sbalneav> So, I guess the question is, really, what we want is a command line option like --permissive, or --firm, or something, that says, if there ISNT a user profile, return 0 if permissive, 1 if firm
[04:04] <sbalneav> well, someone may WANT sabayon to not allow logins if there's not a profile :)
[04:04] <ogra> feel free to make it optional :)
[04:04] <sbalneav> ok
[04:04] <sbalneav> lemme hack it a bit.  Default will be permissive, like we want.
[04:05] <sbalneav> shriphani: I'll get to it when I can.
[04:05] <sbalneav> it's bugfixing day today, so I'm pretty busy
[04:05] <stpaul> I see there is a ltsp manager in development
[04:06] <stpaul> any new that it will be available for gutsy
[04:06] <ogra> i fear it wont make it
[04:06] <ogra> unless i find some extra time
[04:06] <stpaul> oh
[04:06] <stpaul> how about extra help from other coders?
[04:06] <ogra> well, its only a gui for lts.conf :)
[04:07] <ogra> sure
[04:07] <ogra> feel free to adopt it
[04:07] <stpaul> thanks
[04:08] <stpaul> will take a look at tht
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya
[04:14] <bambi_bofh> hi
[04:15] <stpaul> I have updated the ssh keys and the thin clients still cant login
[04:15] <sbalneav> shriphani: I take it you're a student? Talking to admins?
[04:16] <shriphani> admins at school ?
[04:16] <shriphani> i will be.
[04:16] <shriphani> prolly next week.
[04:16] <shriphani> trouble is that i am the only one in the entire city doing this.
[04:16] <shriphani> the Loco team is a <censored> inactive pos.
[04:18] <sbalneav> You're presentation comes off as a bit confrontational to me.  As well, you've got a factual error.  Edubuntu will be offered as an OPTION on the classmate, it won't be the default.
[04:18] <shriphani> ooh..
[04:18] <shriphani> well i'll change that.
[04:18] <ogra> stpaul, anything in ~/.xsession-errors of the user ?
[04:20] <shriphani> what bugs are you fixing btw ?
[04:22] <stpaul> where is thatlog error
[04:23] <sbalneav> Right now?  Bug #38410
[04:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 38410 in sabayon "sabayon blocks ssh based ltsp logins if not user profiles are created" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38410
[04:23] <stpaul> i have a copy of that .xsession-errors
[04:23] <stpaul> where should i paste it
[04:24] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[04:24] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[04:25] <ogra> sbalneav, Bug #137461 ... last comment :))
[04:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137461 in ltsp "xdmcp does not work due to syntax error in shell script" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137461
[04:29] <sbalneav> So, his X isn't configuring, looks like
[04:30] <ogra> yeah
[04:30] <ogra> well, i suspect he apt-get just upgraded the chroot
[04:30] <ogra> err
[04:31] <ogra> well, i suspect he just apt-get upgraded the chroot
[04:31] <sbalneav> Sorry, looks lke the dep was a bad idear.
[04:32] <sbalneav> lol
[04:32] <ogra> :)
[04:33] <shriphani> ok where are the bugs.... i might take a shot at them (not too optimistic tho)
[04:34] <sbalneav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[04:34] <sbalneav> err shriphani
[04:34] <ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[04:34] <ogra> ah, snap
[04:34] <sbalneav> there's a -o ogra mode?
[04:35] <ogra> well, something with the channel changed ... you can set topics only as op
[04:35] <ogra> i dont like that
[04:36] <sbalneav> Man, you ARE powerful
[04:36] <shriphani> hmm so those are the bugs..... "couldn't install etc...
[04:39] <sbalneav> ogra: you removing the dep on dhcpd?
[04:40] <ogra> yes
[04:40] <ogra> just dont getting your patch to apply the rules file properly
[04:41] <sbalneav> what the h*ll am I doing wrong?
[04:41] <sbalneav> It seems no one can ever apply my debdifs cleanly.
[04:41] <sbalneav> I fix the bug
[04:41] <sbalneav> debuild -etc
[04:41] <sbalneav> pbuilder build
[04:42] <sbalneav> check install
[04:42] <sbalneav> and then just debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
[04:43] <ogra> well, i take your diff , save it and run patch -p1 --dry-run <../schotts.patchfile in the source dir
[04:43] <ogra> it rejected the complete rules part
[04:43] <ogra> for no apparent reason
[04:49] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/FIF/dhcp3-3.0.5$ patch -p1 --dry-run < ../debdiff.dhcp3
[04:49] <sbalneav> patching file debian/control
[04:49] <sbalneav> patching file debian/rules
[04:49] <sbalneav> patching file debian/changelog
[04:49] <sbalneav> patching file debian/dhcp3-server.files
[04:49] <sbalneav> patching file debian/acpi-scripts/65-dhcpd-stop.sh
[04:49] <sbalneav> patching file debian/acpi-scripts/69-dhcpd-start.sh
[04:50] <sbalneav> Maybe something the pastebin's doing to it?
[04:50] <sbalneav> I'm dcc'ing you the file
[04:51] <ogra> i'm already uploading :)
[04:51] <ogra> but for a ccheck ...
[04:51] <sbalneav> you seeing the file request?
[04:51] <ogra> yes, i accepted it
[04:51] <sbalneav> hmm
[04:52] <ogra> i guess its a prob with the pasted text
[04:52] <sbalneav> it's not transferring
[04:52] <ogra> try again
[04:52] <ogra> it prbably timed out, i was on the other client
[04:52] <sbalneav> Didn't there used to be some module on the firewall box you needed to get this going?
[04:53] <ogra> copy and paste ?
[04:54] <ogra> oh, you mean xchat
[04:54] <ogra> no, that usuallyworks
[04:54] <sbalneav> k, trying now, one sec
[04:55] <ogra> got a: Connection refused
[04:55] <sbalneav> Anything?
[04:55] <ogra> from your side it seems
[04:55] <sbalneav> crumb
[04:55] <sbalneav> something with my firewall
[04:55] <ogra> Q-Funk sent me loads of docsa for the linuxbiuos stuff recently, so i know it works (or used to)
[04:55] <sbalneav> crud, I'll just mail 'em to you from now on
[04:56] <ogra> well, pastebin should work as well, i wonder why it doesnt
[04:56] <sbalneav> oh, since we got mkelfImage promoted to main, we need to get that added to the chroot, so his client works.
[05:02] <ogra> wqont it clash with mknbi ?
[05:03] <ogra> (or are you sure mkelfImage is a proper 1:1 replacement ?)
[05:03] <sbalneav> Seems to be, from my testing
[05:03] <ogra> oh, ok
[05:03] <ogra> so lets drop mknbi :)
[05:03] <sbalneav> I've tested a couple of nbi clients.  Lets hold off, until I test a few more
[05:03] <ogra> we have it in main now
[05:04] <sbalneav> I haven't tested the latest boot floppies from etherboot yet
[05:04] <ogra> so no need to hurry, its a opne line change in the deps :)
[05:04] <sbalneav> right
[05:04] <sbalneav> still lots of time.
[05:17] <sbalneav> arrgh, gotta update my pbuilder
[05:17] <sbalneav> close to sending you a debdiff on the sabayon bug
[05:18] <ogra> cool
[05:20] <backpro> hello can i install edubuntu in normal ubuntu ??
[05:20] <backpro> using apt-get install edubuntu-desktop ??
[05:20] <sbalneav> That won't create the ltsp stuff, you'll have to do it manuallly, but yes, that will work
[05:22] <backpro> what is ltsp stuff ??
[05:22] <backpro> can you explain to me plzz ??
[05:24] <sbalneav> Thin client, running several diskless machines off one server
[05:46] <raynerd> hello, any edubuntu developers in here?
[05:46] <ogra> some, yes
[05:46] <raynerd> I`m a teacher in the UK, and this summer I joined the world of open source.
[05:47] <effie_jayx> raynerd,  cheers
[05:47] <effie_jayx> :D
[05:47] <raynerd> Only 24 myself, had microsoft forced down my throat for 14 years, and wanted to give the kids an opportunity to use linux
[05:48] <raynerd> I have installed a dual boot with edubuntu on my work pc, but the IT staff will not allow me to install linux on the kids computers
[05:48] <effie_jayx> raynerd,  It takes a little getting used to for them
[05:48] <effie_jayx> be patient
[05:48] <effie_jayx> install on a computer for them to try and get them familiar with it
[05:48] <raynerd> I am happy that the students could boot up an edubuntu live CD, I want to mainly use science programs and openoffice.
[05:49] <raynerd> BUT, there is an INSTALL option that I MUST remove from the live CD before I use it with them. Is there a way to do this?
[05:49] <effie_jayx> raynerd,  get the it people involved ... so that they become more permissive in the end
[05:49] <effie_jayx> raynerd,  also try out some of the apps on windows for them to feel confortable and the have them switch back a forth
[05:50] <raynerd> haha, i`m not even going that way! I`m a young teacher, they dont really know me and are very busy reforming the school management system. I have no chance with that line of attack!
[05:50] <ogra> raynerd, you can customize the CD (just remove the ubiquity package) there is a howto on the wiki
[05:50] <raynerd> i`m new to linux myself, can u send a link] 
[05:51] <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[05:55] <raynerd> hummm, looks hard!
[05:56] <raynerd> do edubuntu not do a live only CD version?
[05:57] <ogra> no, thats the desktop installer
[05:57] <raynerd> :(
[05:57] <raynerd> buggr
[05:57] <raynerd> er
[05:58] <shriphani> raynerd fire up an ancient box which also is capable of serving you as a door-stopper.
[06:00] <shriphani> then let's see the management's reply.
[06:01] <shriphani> management or the it staff whoever is the nutter.
[06:02] <ogra> raynerd, if the machines are network-boot capable and you have a spare beefy machine, you could set up an ltsp server, if a kid netboots the machine it will iuse linux over the net then
[06:02] <ogra> if it boots locally it will use whatever is installed in disk
[06:48] <sbalneav> Bug #36884
[06:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 36884 in kdeedu "Can't type accented vowels" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/36884
[06:49] <ogra> yeah, just got a mail from that
[06:49] <sbalneav> so did i
[06:49] <ogra> obviously not fior us
[06:50] <sbalneav> yep
[07:05] <sbalneav> ogra: Bug #127294 looks kind of icky.
[07:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127294 in gpaint "Gpaint crashes when draggin toolbox" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127294
[07:05] <ogra> well, we coud drop gpaint ...
[07:05] <sbalneav> ogra: btw, can you sync and push new ltspfs?
[07:05] <ogra> will do
[07:06] <sbalneav> sync from upstream
[07:06] <sbalneav> drop gpaint? nah.  Kids'll use it
[07:06] <ogra> no
[07:06] <ogra> thats tuxpaint
[07:07] <ogra> gpaint is really the gnu version of paint
[07:07] <sbalneav> They'll use both.  Kids in junior or senior high aren't going to want to use tuxpaint :)
[07:08] <ogra> had you bumped the version ?
[07:08] <ogra> (ltspfs)
[07:09] <ogra> we'll need to switch to UUID at some point btw ...
[07:10] <sbalneav> for which?
[07:10] <ogra> ltspfs/d
[07:10] <sbalneav> Umm, I did in the -packaging branch
[07:10] <sbalneav> but not in the source.
[07:10] <ogra> upstream version ?
[07:10] <sbalneav> yeah
[07:10] <ogra> or only ubuntu
[07:10] <ogra> meh, k
[07:10] <sbalneav> ltspfs-upstream
[07:10] <sbalneav> no only ubuntu.
[07:11] <ogra> yes, thats where i'm in
[07:11] <sbalneav> I didn't bump upstream
[07:11] <sbalneav> just ignore my packaging
[07:11] <ogra> oh my, that last commit is a beast
[07:11] <sbalneav> well, I basically merged all the work that was going on in -nodm back into upstream.
[07:11] <ogra> right
[07:12] <ogra> i should have merged earlier ...
[07:27] <stgraber> As one of you already installed an Edubuntu server on AMD Athlon 64 X2 (4000+ in my case), can it easily handle 8 running openoffice (ram will be 2GB)
[07:28] <ogra> it should, yes
[07:29] <stgraber> previous serv was Celeron 1.8Ghz and was almost impossible to use as soon as you had 4-5 running openoffice
[07:30] <stgraber> ogra: I'll try an italc install on this network tomorrow
[07:30] <ogra> ah, cool
[07:30] <stgraber> ogra: as they are using italc instead of vision6 on Windows as well
[07:30] <stgraber> ogra: that way they have the same tool for Windows and Linux
[07:30] <ogra> feedback would be appreciated
[07:30] <ogra> i'm pondering italc as TCM replacement for gutsy+1
[07:30] <ogra> even though its qt and adds extra stuff to the CD
[07:31] <stgraber> yes that's what I'd like to see if italc can't work properly with thin clients I'll spend some time working on my reworked version of TCM
[07:31] <stgraber> but I wouldn't like to work on something that already exists and is working
[07:32] <stgraber> and same management tool on Windows+Linux will make the switch easier
[07:33] <ogra> yeah
[07:33] <ogra> italc is pretty widespread
[07:33] <ogra> i find its UI horrible though, makes me want to kill kittens :P
[07:33] <ogra> and the client is easy to manupilate
[07:34] <stgraber> indeed, a simple killall and it's gone
[07:35] <stgraber> we'll also have some problem with functions like shutdown/restart
[07:36] <stgraber> power on is OK as it's using the WOL and we can manually specify the mac address, shutdown and restart are the problem as we'd need to send them to the client and not the server
[07:36] <stgraber> but if the other functionalies work that'd already be wonderful
[07:36] <stgraber> (I had some problem testing with gutsy packages yesterday, I built a new one for Feisty from current upstream source and it seems to work even between Linux and Windows)
[07:38] <stgraber> ogra: oh, and I've been invited to UDS-Boston so I should be there to discuss those things :)
[07:39] <ogra> i know :)
[07:39] <ogra> looking forward to that
[07:41] <sbalneav> ogra: Ah, looks like that gpaint bug was fixed in Gutsy by a new upstream release
[07:41] <sbalneav> I'll commient
[07:42] <ogra> yay :)
[07:42] <ogra> lets see if ltspfs builds for me now in the new package :)
[07:43] <shriphani> btw what do i introduce myself as to the school folks ?
[07:43] <shriphani> edubuntu ambassador ?
[07:44] <sbalneav> What, you've been here a couple of days, and already you're our ambassador? :)
[07:44] <ogra> shriphani, sure, if you feel like
[07:44] <shriphani> heh.
[07:45] <stgraber> If that server works fine for a whole classroom, I'm pretty sure they'll want some others, it only cost me 250 for Motherboard+CPU+2GB kingston the other pieces have been taken on old computers
[07:45] <shriphani> I like big names and tags. I then get attention. I am shriphani would get me lesser attention than an ant in a 60 floors building.
[07:45] <sbalneav> ogra: ok, gpaint's solved by upstream.  What else is bugging you?
[07:47] <sbalneav> shriphani: bit of advice: don't come on too strong.  "I am shriphani" is a true statement, and one you can back up.  Slow and steady wins the race.
[07:47] <ogra> sbalneav, not sure. looking
[07:47] <shriphani> sbalneav: ok.
[07:49] <ogra> sbalneav, im not really seeing anything urgent it seems by clicking through the packages
[07:49] <sbalneav> Any bugs we should address in TCM?
[07:50] <ogra> hmm
[07:50] <ogra> whats happening with my ltspfs build here
[07:51] <ogra> oh
[07:51] <ogra> heh
[07:51] <ogra> what a nonsense
[07:55] <sbalneav> Did I put something bad?
[07:55] <ogra> sbalneav, i dont see TCM in our packagelist ...
[07:55] <ogra> no no, that was my fault :)
[07:55] <sbalneav> It isn't
[07:55] <ogra> it just looks ugly in the build logs :) nothing that does any harm
[07:57] <stgraber> ogra: If I write an oversized ISO on a DVD there will be no problem right ?
[07:57] <ogra> yep
[07:57] <stgraber> ogra: I'd like to try the latest edubuntu server i386 on that new server
[07:57] <ogra> i'm just running such an install upstairs :)
[07:58] <stgraber> ok, so let's find a USB hdd :)
[07:58] <ogra> no guarantee that works though
[07:58] <ogra> the new udeb didnt see and "in installer" testing yet
[07:58] <ogra> it might heavily fail (very likely)
[07:59] <stgraber> yeah, 1% CPU use running OpenOffice on a feisty livecd, looks good
[08:04] <ogra> 	ltspfs_0.4.3-0ubuntu8_source.changes rejected
[08:04] <ogra> :((
[08:04] <ogra> meh
[08:05] <sbalneav> No love?
[08:05] <ogra> not really, no
[08:05] <ogra> i'll tr ya differnt way
[08:05] <ogra> *try a
[08:05] <ogra> (the ugly one)
[08:07] <ogra> *shudder* thats a 6000 lines patch
[08:10] <ogra> oh sigh
[08:12] <ogra> cat we release without localdev support :P
[08:13] <charlie_21> hi all
[08:14] <sbalneav> ogra: err, no :)
[08:14] <sbalneav> What's the issue?  Anything I can do?
[08:15] <ogra> sbalneav, my fear of buerocracy ... no issues beyond ... but i think we'll need an UVF exception for that i just dont feel like making the diff from -ubuntu7 to -ubuntu8 6600 lines big
[08:16] <ogra> (if i keep the upstream version (... orig.tar.gz) all changes have to go into the diff.gz)
[08:17] <sbalneav> Oh, crap, was it all the reformatting I did?
[08:18] <sbalneav> That something I can plead for?
[08:18] <sbalneav> Who should I ping?
[08:18] <ogra> no, it was me being late with even looking at it
[08:19] <ogra> nobody
[08:19] <ogra> my job
[08:19] <ogra> i just need to do a sane package now
[08:19] <ogra> tell me a version number my. upstream :)
[08:19] <ogra> *mr.
[08:19] <ogra> 0.5 ?
[08:20] <ogra> since it changes a lot and adds security
[08:21] <sbalneav> right, lets go to .5
[08:24] <moquist> Hmm. Two of my working edubuntu servers are no longer working. /scripts/nfs-premount runs ("Done."), and then (after a while, of course), "connect: Connection timed out"
[08:24] <moquist> I'm just getting started on this one, but if anybody knows the answer I won't be annoyed if they type it in here. :)
[08:32] <sbalneav> ogra, I'm going to go upstairs for a bit of lunch.  7.5 hours deserves a break, eh?
[08:32] <sbalneav> You'll be here for a bit?
[08:33] <ogra> not long anymore, as soon as i filed the UVFe i'll fade out i think
[08:33] <ogra> 9pm here
[08:33] <ogra> well 8:30
[08:34] <sbalneav> Who's a good guy who I can bug if I need any more bugs fixed?
[08:34] <sbalneav> how long till the ltspfs package gets pushed, btw?
[08:34] <sbalneav> tomorrow?
[08:34] <ogra> no idea, we'll need the UVFe granted
[08:35] <highvoltage> hi sbalneav
[08:35] <ogra> i'll prepare all paperwork now
[08:35] <highvoltage> hello ogra
[08:35] <highvoltage> sbalneav: LTSP has bugs!?
[08:35] <ogra> sbalneav, well i'D have said laser, but he's not here :/ i'll just keep my lappie here
[08:36] <sbalneav> highvoltage: :)
[08:36] <sbalneav> We've squashed 4 bugs so far, none of them ltsp related.
[08:36] <sbalneav> haven't even got started with ltsp bugs :)
[08:43] <moquist> Stupid changed IP address of the server stupid... :)
[08:44] <moquist> It's more complicated than that, but all I had to do was fix the custom PXE configuration.
[08:44] <stgraber> argh, CD filed verfication ...
[08:47] <ogra> http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98
[09:38] <LaserJock> hi all
[09:38] <ogra> LaserJock, !!!
[09:39] <LaserJock> I thought I'd drop in an say happy Fix-it-Friday
[09:39] <LaserJock> my day got completely messed up, I've got almost 5 hrs of meetings today :(
[09:39] <ogra> do you smell the bug poison sbalneav sprayed around the room everywhere ?
[09:40] <LaserJock> hehe, a little
[09:40] <LaserJock> ogra: see my email on .iso sizes?
[09:40] <ogra> yes
[09:40] <ogra> not much i can do atm
[09:40] <LaserJock> sure, I know
[09:40] <LaserJock> just wondered if you had any ideas
[09:40] <ogra> i have to do test installs anyway, the udeb is untested yet
[09:41] <ogra> (just running one test upstairs (on a USB 1.1 disk since 4h) )
[09:42] <sbalneav> I been squashin' bugs since 6AM
[09:42] <ogra> crazy guy :)
[09:43] <sbalneav> Hey, I don't mint the hugs, but stop pinching my *ss :)
[09:43] <sbalneav> mind
[09:44] <sbalneav> lol
[09:44] <ogra> lol
[09:45] <stgraber> ogra: chroot building failed inside the installer (mkfifo not found)
[09:45] <ogra> ARGH
[09:45] <ogra> thats the last thing i expected to be missing
[09:47] <ogra> hmm, no, looks like it will take until tomorrow
[09:48] <ogra> only 50% of the desktop packages installed yet
[09:48] <moquist> sbalneav: how hard would it be to give everyone rwx perms on local devices, so we don't need to add people to the fuse group?
[09:48] <ogra> stgraber, can you send me the syslog ?
[09:48] <sbalneav> eww
[09:48] <sbalneav> umm
[09:49] <ogra> moquist, wont work
[09:49] <ogra> you cant mount without being in the fuse group
[09:49] <sbalneav> I think distro team would have kittens
[09:49] <ogra> heh, yeah
[09:49] <moquist> Oh, I don't mean for the whole project.
[09:49] <ogra> that as well
[09:49] <sbalneav> You can do it YOURSELF if you want
[09:49] <moquist> I meant for us, here. Because we don't care. :)
[09:49] <sbalneav> oh, that's easy
[09:49] <ogra> is it ?
[09:49] <LaserJock> how is moodle coming, btw ? :-)
[09:49] <ogra> sbalneav, i dont even think thats possible
[09:50] <sbalneav> insert/change the udev rule for /dev/fuse, to set perms 666, and chmod 755 fusermount
[09:50] <sbalneav> ogra: sure it is, I've done it.
[09:50] <moquist> LaserJock: OK; ditching invoke-rc.d let it finish. (I know, that's weird.)
[09:50] <moquist> sbalneav: Thx. The udev rules is what I was hoping your answer would be. :-)
[09:50] <ogra> sbalneav, still
[09:50] <sbalneav> unless something's changed, fuse's security was just through the groups perm
[09:50] <LaserJock> moquist: what did you replace it with?
[09:50] <moquist> sbalneav, ogra: is there any possibility this *could* be built in as a config option? (With lots of appropriate warnings, etc.)
[09:51] <moquist> LaserJock: Er, wwwconfig. Just for testing. ;)
[09:51] <LaserJock> heh
[09:51] <ogra> moquist, over my dead body :)
[09:51] <moquist> LaserJock: I know I need to replace it with update-rc.d; ogra clued me on that this morning.
[09:51] <sbalneav> It would have to be a libfuse + udev change.
[09:51] <sbalneav> ickypoo
[09:51] <ogra> sbalneav, the mount will be owned by the user in any case
[09:51] <moquist> ogra: OK, sounds like something I won't keep pursuing, then. :-)
[09:51] <LaserJock> moquist: ah, sweet
[09:52] <ogra> moquist, a) i dont belive its doable with the structure we have ... b) you break the whole system security through what sbalneav suggested above
[09:52] <stgraber> ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/edu-syslog
[09:52] <sbalneav> yeah, it's a bad bad thing.
[09:53] <ogra> stgraber, hmm, thanks
[09:54] <LaserJock> well, I have to be off. More meetings to attend
[09:54] <LaserJock> but keep it up and crush those bugs!!!
[09:55] <stgraber> looking at it I could have cut it to the last 10 lines :)
[09:55] <ogra> heh
[09:55] <ogra> yeas
[09:55] <ogra> hmm, i have no idea how to get mkfifo in the d-i environment
[09:56] <stgraber> ogra: I have something weird now, it doesn't find fdisk either, but I'm pretty sure it did at the beginning of the install
[09:56] <stgraber> (it can't install grub because it can't find fdisk)
[09:57] <ogra> ok
[09:57] <moquist> sbalneav, ogra: how is the "whole system security" broken through sbalneav's suggestion?
[09:58] <ogra> using mkfifo is bad in the installer
[09:58] <stgraber> ogra: I'll restart an install and check if mkfifo is present at partitioning time (as I know fdisk was at this stage and wasn't at the end of the install)
[09:58] <ogra> moquist, you can loop mount stuff rw through fuse for example
[09:59] <ogra> stgraber, mkfifo is to high level, i need to change to mknod
[09:59] <moquist> ogra: can you loop mount the NFS root rw?
[09:59] <ogra> there wont be a udeb containing the mkfifobinary
[09:59] <moquist> no...it's not exported rw.
[09:59] <ogra> right
[10:00] <ogra> i'm talking about local dirs :)
[10:00] <moquist> ogra: We don't have a single TC in our district that has local devices that pose any security risk.
[10:00] <ogra> right, feel free to do it for your setup
[10:00] <ogra> but you'll never see me dropping all permissions on /dev/fuse
[10:01] <ogra> not even with an option thats called --feel-free-to-shoot-yourself-in-both-foots-with-bazooka
[10:01] <ogra> *feet .. bah
[10:02] <stgraber> any reason of why we don't have fdisk ?? :)
[10:02] <ogra> because we use partman ?
[10:02] <stgraber> well, grub use it
[10:03] <stgraber> so we can't install grub :)
[10:03] <ogra> oh
[10:03] <ogra> well, you cant have everything :)
[10:03] <stgraber> uhm, a boot loader would be great though :)
[10:04] <ogra> might be caused by the oversizedness ...
[10:04] <ogra> is there an fdisk udeb ?
[10:04] <stgraber> indeed, I'm looking for the udeb
[10:04] <stgraber> fdisk is in util-linux
[10:05] <ogra> (look in the menu ... "load additional installer components" or so
[10:05] <ogra> )
[10:05] <moquist> ogra: Understood. But it's quite a pain to maintain the fuse groups, to be honest. It would be good if there were an easy way to say "give everyone access to local devices"...though I guess that's *exactly* what you're not wanting.
[10:05] <moquist> Maybe we could say "give everyone access to any local device with a name that matches one of these patterns"
[10:06] <nixternal> ogra: anything need to be done for edubuntu-desktop-kde?
[10:06] <ogra> moquist, well, it would be cool to have a feature to add a selection of users to a group for sure, thats independent from fuse i guess
[10:07] <ogra> nixternal, not atm i guess ... i never installed it :)
[10:07] <nixternal> i am going to get a test system up and running this weekend
[10:07] <stgraber> lb
[10:07] <ogra> nixternal, feel free to add more stuff to it if you like
[10:07] <stgraber> oops
[10:07] <stgraber> ogra: load additional didn't work, I just downloaded the udeb and installed by hand
[10:08] <ogra> that did work ?
[10:08] <stgraber> yes
[10:08] <stgraber> I now have fdisk
[10:08] <moquist> sbalneav, ogra: thx
[10:08] <nixternal> OK..any changes I make I will provide you with a debdiff..I am only a little MOTU right now :)
[10:09] <ogra> moquist, imho that should be a feature in gnome-useradmin
[10:10] <ogra> so you can select a set of users (or all of them) and right click ... add to group
[10:10] <ogra> breaking the security concept for a usability issue isnt the right way :)
[10:12] <sbalneav> is the UVF exception posted anywhere?
[10:12] <ogra> its a bug
[10:12] <ogra> you should have the mail for it
[10:13] <sbalneav> Hmm, no I don't!
[10:13] <ogra> youre no bug contact for your own package ?
[10:13] <ogra> Bug 138048
[10:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138048 in ltspfs "UpstreamVersionFreeze Exception request for version 0.5" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138048
[10:18] <sbalneav> Too bad pitti's on Honeymoon, otherwise we could bug him :)
[10:18] <sbalneav> Hmm, who else loves me in #ubuntu-devel :)
[10:19] <ogra> for what ?
[10:19] <ogra> the UVFe ?
[10:19] <sbalneav> yeah :)
[10:19] <ogra> ubuntu-release
[10:19] <ogra> everyone in the team can approve
[10:20] <sbalneav> Who all's in there?
[10:20] <sbalneav> or is that a channel?
[10:20] <ogra> its a team
[10:20] <ogra> its subscribed to the bug
[10:20] <ogra> click on the team name in the left menu
[10:21] <moquist> ogra: Yeah, you're right.
[10:24] <stgraber> ogra: I've manually installed mkfifo so I can see if something else doesn't work with the new udeb
[10:24] <ogra> stgraber, cool, thanks
[10:24] <ogra> that saves me one step :)
[10:35] <moquist> It's kinda slow, going encrypted over the Internet. ;)
[10:36] <stgraber> ogra: a little remaining issue : unable to rename /var/log/ltsp-build-client.log no such file or directory
[10:36] <ogra> oh
[10:36] <ogra> did you have a proper progressbar ?
[10:37] <ogra> moquist, http://blog.daniel-baumann.ch/2007/09/07#20070907_debian-live-web-boot
[10:37] <stgraber> nope, 0% during the whole chroot install
[10:37] <ogra> then it didnt work at all
[10:37] <stgraber> now it's doing the mksquashfs and still no progress bar
[10:38] <ogra> i was suspecting that
[10:38] <ogra> in-target eats the output and forwards it to syslog
[10:38] <stgraber> hmm, looks like the mksquashfs part finish by an infinite loop ...
[10:38] <ogra> is there progress on console4 ?
[10:39] <ogra> yes, its inifinite ...
[10:39] <ogra> since it waits for the output of mksquashfs
[10:39] <moquist> ogra: cool
[10:41] <stgraber> ogra: ok, I killed the post-install script and copied the syslog to /target so you can have a look if you want
[10:42] <ogra> that would be nice
[10:42] <ogra> there should actually be no output at all in it from the client building
[11:05] <stgraber> ogra: oh, it seems that I have my usual problem, connecting the server to my LAN (only one NIC), then configuring my DHCP to next-server to the right IP
[11:06] <stgraber> ogra: but I get a initramfs prompt
[11:06] <stgraber> ogra: looks like nbd-client doesn't receive the right IP or something like that
[11:06] <ogra> so its happening before the mount attempt  ?
[11:07] <ogra> whats the exact error you see ?
[11:10] <stgraber> target doesn't have /bin/init
[11:13] <ogra> do you have an image in /opt/ltsp/images ?
[11:13] <stgraber> yep
[11:13] <ogra> an entry in /etc/inetd,conf for nbdrootd ?
[11:13] <ogra> s/\,/\.
[11:14] <stgraber> yep, I can manually connect using nbd-client and mount
[11:14] <ogra> hmm
[11:14] <stgraber> nbd-client 172.16.4.254 2000 /dev/nbd0 && mount -t squashfs /dev/nbd0 /rofs
[11:15] <ogra> ls /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.22-10-386/ubuntu/fs/ ?
[11:16] <stgraber> oh, found the problem :)
[11:16] <stgraber> root@edubuntu:/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386# cat pxelinux.cfg/default
[11:16] <stgraber> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=${PORT}
[11:16] <ogra> heh
[11:16] <ogra> bug in ltsp-update-image
[11:16] <ogra> remove nbdport=${PORT}
[11:17] <ogra> that should only be set if it differs from 2000
[11:17] <ogra> (and indeed it should have a portnumber, not ${PORT} ;) )
[11:17] <stgraber> I have put 2000 and rebooted, it works
[11:17] <ogra> should also work without it
[11:18] <ogra> but thats good then
[11:54] <ogra> sbalneav, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DebuggingLTSP
[11:54] <ogra> if you have more ideas, feel free to add :)
[01:36] <LaserJock> afternoon Edubunters!!
[01:37] <LaserJock> sbalneav: do we have a dead bug count? :-)