/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/09/08/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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sistpotyhi02:09
ajmitchhi02:09
geserHi02:09
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ajmitchnot many here today02:09
TheMusoeeek02:09
=== TheMuso will do minutes/announcements
TheMusoGot so wrapped up in my own work.02:10
sistpotysorry for being late02:10
TheMusoI haven't missed anything I hope02:10
ajmitchTheMuso: iff we have something to talk about02:10
ajmitchsistpoty: you were first to speak up ;)02:10
geserTheMuso: you only missed some people saying hi02:10
TheMusoheh right.02:10
sistpotyajmitch: but I'm drunk already, so I don't count ;)02:10
superm1hasn't even started yet :)02:10
TheMusoWell, my offer for minutes/announcements stands.02:11
ajmitchhaha02:11
sistpoty(nvidia stuff gave me the rest, couldn't do this w.o. booze *g*)02:11
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TheMusoheh02:12
ajmitchagenda page just has motu sru process02:12
TheMusoWho added it?02:13
ajmitchno info02:13
TheMusoSo I can now see.02:14
ajmitchah, blame superm102:14
TheMusoWell no point talking about it if there aren't many here, as it does affect a lot of us, and if the original person who proposed it can't explain it, well theres no point...02:14
superm1well i'm here02:14
sistpotyok, subsection two: motu-sru still needed: being (still) a member, this was abandoned quite some time ago.02:14
superm1just lots of latency02:14
sistpotyso motu-sru is neither needed, nor should be assigned/subscribed any bugs to02:15
TheMusoI personally think we need more MOTUs at the meeting before this goes under the knife again.02:15
superm1well the big thing i wanted to discuss with it was the role of archive admins02:16
geseris there still some documentation left refering to motu-sru?02:16
superm1becuase they have no idea what needs to be done02:16
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sistpotysuperm1: do you think SRU's have got out of control?02:17
sistpoty(as I'm not knowing anything about how much, nor how SRUs are done nowadays)02:17
superm1sistpoty, not that they got out of control, but i had to file one for mythtv for edgy and feisty just last week02:18
superm1and ended up having lots of troubles02:18
superm1because people i discussed it with were confused by the process02:18
superm1both Ridell and seb128 weren't positive about their role02:18
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sistpotyok, knowing still knowing about the discussion around the new policy, maybe I should explain:02:19
sistpotysince SRUs came with some delay (from -sru and from -archive) for hitting -proposed and later -updates, we decided to lower the barrier to -proposed02:20
sistpotyalso we decided that any motu could upload directly to -proposed (which -archive should intervene only if the version number was flawed, because removing from -proposed wasn't implemented in LP yet)02:21
superm1so then they really have no say other than version number02:22
superm1and its up to a MOTU to decide if it should really be going into -proposed02:22
sistpotyyes. to keep the barrier to -proposed as simple as possible02:22
geseryes, they should only check if the version is sane to be copied later to -updates02:23
sistpotyhowever to get a package into -updates, the testing (as still described in the SRU page iirc) needs to be done.02:23
superm1now its not clear whether the acks need to be MOTUs, or just general users testing -proposed count too then02:23
sistpotyany ack countes02:23
sistpoty-e02:24
superm1okay that makes it a lot easier02:24
superm1the min 7 day barrier to -updates, that's off the latest upload, or if there was a small fix to a proposed update, from the first upload02:24
ajmitchgetting that many motus to ack was too hard02:24
superm1yea that's what i was realizing02:25
sistpotysuperm1: off the latest upload. Because this period is meant that the exact packages to end up in -updates later should get tested02:25
superm1okay.02:26
sistpotyhowever, the archive team will still do a sanity check for the proposed->updates migration (they did this anyways w. or w.o. -sru in the past). So finally they can decide on wether an update is fit for -updates or not02:27
superm1now when its copied to -updates, can archive admins knock the ~proposed1 off an upload version number, or should it be the exact version number intended for -updates later?02:27
sistpotythat's a good question, since syncing a package from one pocket to another is possible now. anyone got a clue?02:28
ajmitchI think it's meant to have the version without ~proposed102:29
ajmitchbut I may be wrong02:29
ajmitchsince that wouldn't allow multiple testing uploads02:29
sistpotyajmitch: but that would affect the upload to -proposed already?02:29
superm1keescook had thought that perhaps appending a .1 like security updates would be a safer way to go02:30
superm1that way more updates can be popped in02:30
geseryou upload to -proposed with the version which will end in -updates02:30
superm1without needing to add stuff like ~proposedX02:30
geserexactly, -0ubuntu1.1 as version and uploaded to -proposed02:31
sistpotymight this clash with possible security update versions?02:31
gesershouldn't further security updates base on the -updates packages?02:32
sistpotynot necessarily02:32
superm1and assuminingly the SRU would be based off security updates if they are out?02:32
geserit wouldn't be good if bugs come back because of a security issue02:32
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geserIMHO a package uploaded to -security or -updates should have all the previous changes from -security or -updates02:34
sistpotyhm.. likewise it might be bad if a security update would fix also (lesser important) stuff and thus have a higher risk to break stuff02:34
geserisn't -updates activated by default, so people already have fixes02:35
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sistpotynot for universe (is security for universe enabled by default?)02:36
sistpotyat least iirc02:36
geserit would be bad to prepare a new SRU for every security update because the changes from -updates got lost02:36
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sistpotyright02:36
sistpotyhow about holding this particular item back and waiting for a clarification from the security team?02:37
superm1well it would be bad too though if you have to decide between a new feature or issue in the SRU or a security resolution in the security update02:37
nixternaloi!02:37
ajmitchnixternal!02:37
sistpotyhey nixternal02:37
nixternalwasabi you funky MOTUs02:37
nixternaloh, dholbacks first day on the job and he is hiding :p02:38
=== sistpoty looks innocent
nixternalhehe02:38
superm1sistpoty yea i think thats a good idea02:39
sistpotyhowever, back to business02:39
superm1we can bring that discussion on to -devel mailing list probably02:39
sistpotyok, anyone who wants to mail pitti/keescook for a clarification and report back to the motu ml?02:39
sistpotysuperm1: or that02:39
sistpotysuperm1: would you tackle that?02:39
superm1sistpoty sure, i'll shoot a mail out tomorrow for it02:40
sistpotygreat, thanks!02:40
sistpotyok, what else of the SRU policy needs discussion?02:40
superm1well the motu-sru team02:41
superm1do we need them still?02:41
ajmitchno, and it's been gone for awhile02:41
superm1k easy enough.  Now when its ready to go to -updates, should we just ping an archive admin, or more specifically what would that process be then?02:42
=== nixternal hopes that this will all eventually be documented nicely on the wiki
geserwhen you have the needed testing done, add a commen stating it and subscribe u-a02:43
superm1ok.02:43
=== sistpoty just left -sru, after finding the link :)
geserand add the verfication-done tag (or similar)02:43
superm1well i think thats it then for the SRU process, everything I found on it to be confused is resolved here02:44
TheMusoOk... SO what has been changed/clarrified02:44
sistpotyno more -sru team, upload only to -proposed, testing as in wiki, after testing done add tag and subscribe -archive again (no more uploading). anything else?02:45
superm11) no more motu-sru team02:45
sistpotysorry ;)02:45
superm12) archive admins don't check *anything* more than version when going to -proposed02:46
superm13) subscribe -archive, and then they can do more throughout checks02:46
superm14) version numbers shouldn't have ~proposed1, but we still need to check about conflicting security updates02:46
superm15) any person can comment that "works for them" not just motu02:46
TheMusoAnd I am guessing someone will update wiki docs?02:47
superm16) +1's have to be from latest upload, and the 7 day ticker starts over02:47
superm1TheMuso, if you send this out in minutes, i can update the wiki tomorrow when i get home02:47
=== nixternal points at MootBot -> we should be using this to track this meeting
TheMusosuperm1: Ok.02:47
sistpotythanks a lot superm1!02:47
ajmitchnixternal: too technical for us02:47
nixternallol02:47
ajmitchgreat, any further business?02:47
nixternal#startmeeting02:47
MootBotMeeting started at 00:38. The chair is nixternal.02:47
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 02:47
ajmitchQ&A/hug days?02:48
TheMusoYeah. What can we do to get more people to metings.02:48
nixternal#endmeeting02:48
MootBotMeeting finished at 00:38.02:48
nixternalhow hard is that?02:48
ajmitchTheMuso: I would have thought that more people from .au would have been awake02:48
TheMusoajmitch: They are, but people don't always sit on the comp first thing in the morning. :)02:48
TheMusoMind you, it is wet in this part of Au.02:48
sistpotynixternal: for someone who is not enlighted, it's like asking ubotu aboute UVFE and then in plain text again ;)02:48
ajmitchit started at 10am for you! that's not first thing :)02:49
nixternallol02:49
=== Fujitsu pokes his head in, and notes he forgot, because the last reminder was some 8 days ago.
TheMusoFujitsu: Well how soon should the second reminder be?02:49
TheMuso...or maybe a third is needed.02:49
FujitsuIt was 5 days after the announcement this time. It should probably at least be closer to the day than announcement.02:50
TheMusook.02:50
FujitsuBut I've no idea how far before it should actually be.02:50
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TheMusobut its been at various times in the pats, yet we still don't get a lot of regular attendees to the meetings.02:51
ajmitchnoone cares enough02:51
TheMusoajmitch: How can we change that?02:51
=== sistpoty must admit that sistpoty was only there occasionally
ajmitchprobably because we often don't have much to talk about02:51
superm1maybe we should give out karma to those that show up :)02:52
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sistpotymaybe explicitely invite hopefuls as well?02:52
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TheMusoI dunno... But I wonder if we can't still do something to get more people here...02:52
TheMusosistpoty: Thats what I was thinking.02:52
sistpotyand maybe have new hopefuls introduce themselves during meeting time, to make them feeling more rooted in the motu world02:53
sistpoty(which of course might take precious discussion time=02:53
geserTheMuso: is the time ok for those in .au/.nz or should it be moved further into the .au day?02:53
TheMusoBut if we have little to talk about...02:53
TheMusogeser: I can't comment on that, as I'm usually always here on Sat mornings anyway.02:54
TheMusoSo I am somewhat different from the norm.02:54
sistpotyTheMuso: right, I wanted to quote precious actually, but fingers were faster than brain02:54
TheMusoheh02:54
gesermy impression is that meetings on 12:00 UTC are more visited than those at 0:00 UTC02:54
TheMusogeser: Right.02:55
geserwould perhaps an other time rotation scheme work better?02:55
TheMusogeser: Thats the thing. This scheme works for those who attend, which means its always at similar times.02:56
sistpotywhat's the current scheme? +/- 12?02:56
TheMusoWith more people attending, we can get a wider view of what suits people.02:56
TheMusosistpoty: Yes, on Fridays.02:56
TheMusoWHich I wonder if people would rather it be another day.02:56
gesersistpoty: yes, 12 UTC and 0 UTC02:56
sistpotymaybe a rotation based on +/(-) 8 would be better? not too sure though02:57
gesersistpoty: 12UTC +/- 8 or 0 UTC +/- 8?02:58
TheMusoWell as I said, we need others to attend, otherwise the usuals get to set the time to something that suits them.02:58
sistpotygeser: no preference really. was just a stupid idea02:58
TheMusoDoes anybody think a topic on the ml about this is worth trying?02:59
TheMusoI'd be happy to post it.02:59
sistpotyTheMuso: not too sure if conclusions will result from it, but I'd definitely think its worth trying.02:59
geserlet's try it, it can't get much worser with attendings03:00
TheMusoOk, will do that later today.03:00
TheMusoSo, I guess we get onto our fixed topics...03:01
TheMusoUnless anybody else has something to say/other business...03:01
DktrKranzcould I ask you something about sru process?03:01
sistpotyDktrKranz: sure, just go ahead03:02
geserDktrKranz: ask03:02
DktrKranzthanks03:02
DktrKranzhow sponsors manage sru requests? sometimes it's hard to verify them03:02
DktrKranzeither they don't have requisites to verify or simply they don't have a specific version03:03
DktrKranzsometimes a request lies in the queue for a long time, proably because of that03:03
DktrKranzis there any plan/discussion to improve the process?03:04
sistpotyhm... to anyone who sponsors packages, where do you think is the difficulty in sponsoring SRUs and how could this be improved?03:05
sistpotydamn, from MC I'm so used to ask questions *g*03:05
ajmitchyou do it so well ;)03:05
sistpotythx03:05
ajmitchthought of a career in journalism? :)03:06
=== ajmitch hasn't been sponsoring lately, so can't really answer this one
sistpotynot really, I'm quite good at coding unfortunately ;)03:06
sistpotyhm... how long is the sponsoring queue nowadays actually?03:07
geserI wouldn't be confident to sponsor a SRU I couldn't check or where I'm not sure if the patch is correct (when I can't check it)03:07
TheMusoI still think a lot of MOTUs are uncomfortable with SRUs, and I'm not affraid to admit I'm one of them.03:07
FujitsuI've done several SRUs, but only where I have been involved from the start03:08
geserI don't know how many MOTUs changed already to gutsy which makes SRU checking a little bit harder03:08
TheMusoMind you, once the SRU stuff discussed earlier is documented, I'll be more enclined to help with them.03:10
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sistpotydo you think a separate SRU-sponsoring team would help?03:12
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=== Fujitsu recalls the good old days of about a year ago, when he was trying to perform a SRU, but there was no policy.
TheMusosistpoty: No, I just think we really need to ensure we are all comfortable with the procedure.03:13
TheMusoI certainly am willing to help once I know what I'm doing.03:13
sistpotyright, good point03:14
sistpotyactually I was thinking of transferring responsibility to contributors. This means a SRU-sponsorship team would only need to look at diffs and give thumbs up/down. However if s.th. goes wrong the team would need to make sure that it will fire up an update ASAP. But I guess that's nothing but what motu-sru was for MOTUs in the past03:16
sistpoty(or rather should have been ;)03:16
sistpotybut TheMuso's point still stands03:17
FujitsuI think SRUs need to have a MOTU associated, as there is some kind of reliability implicit in MOTUship. MOTUs aren't likely to vanish, whereas contributors regularly do.03:17
TheMusosistpoty IMO anybody can look at a diff and say yay or nay. Its the procedure that people aren't easy with.03:17
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TheMusoThats why we are so quick to do gutsy work, as there is almost never any red tape.03:18
TheMusoThats how I see it anyway.03:19
=== Fujitsu agrees with TheMuso.
sistpotyright, so let's hope that communicating how the process works will get improvement. We can still discuss it if it doesn't, agreed? ;)03:19
TheMusoAgreed.03:19
=== superm1 agrees
superm1and now that i understand the process correctly, i'll be glad to work with other contributors that want to get an SRU through03:20
TheMusoYeah, I'l;l be the same once I can digest a doc. :)03:20
=== DktrKranz believes he will ping superm1 soon :)
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TheMusoSo... Shall we move onto deciding times for next meeting etc?03:23
sistpotyyes, please03:24
TheMusoI'll let others decide, as I can generally make them03:24
TheMusoDon't chime in all at once... :)03:26
TheMusoTwo weeks from now?03:26
gesersounds good03:26
TheMuso12:00 UTC?03:26
=== Fujitsu should be there, if he remembers.
TheMusoFujitsu: I'll attempt to do better with the announcements.03:27
FujitsuTheMuso: I should have remembered anyway, but that would be good, thanks.03:28
TheMusoanybody else speak up now, or twill be set in stone...03:29
=== Fujitsu engraves it into the stone.
TheMusoFujitsu: Yep, sounds good.03:31
TheMusodo universe hug days even happen?03:31
FujitsuUnfortunately not, it seems.03:31
TheMusoWell, I say we leave it TBA.03:31
TheMusorevu is off till next cycle.03:32
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TheMusoDid dholbach end up holding any more Q&A sessions?03:32
TheMusoOr anybody else?03:32
superm1well there is a MOTU/LP PPA session that will be going on soon03:33
superm1that should be mentioned03:33
superm1as soon as the date is determined03:33
TheMusosuperm1: Will do. Do we have a date/time for that?03:33
TheMusoah ok03:33
TheMusoAlrighty... I think we can say this meeting is closed...03:35
FujitsuClosed/disintegrated, but yes.03:36
sistpotythanks everyone!03:36
superm1indeed glad to settle $things, night all03:36
=== geser moves to bed now, it's nearly 4 am here
TheMusoMinutes will hopefully be in the next 24/48 hours.03:37
FujitsuThanks TheMuso.03:37
TheMusonp03:37
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DktrKranzthanks for the answers, see you :)03:38
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
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Balkhog@now06:18
ubotuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: September 08 2007, 04:18:52 - Next meeting: Xubuntu Developers in 12 hours 41 minutes06:18
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elfreiant c quan on ligne04:43
elfreiant ???? svp04:43
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Meyvn@schedule05:08
ubotuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 15:00: Kernel Team05:08
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mr_pouit@schedule Paris06:04
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Paris: 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team06:04
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somerville32Heya06:49
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
janimosomerville32: hey06:53
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janimojeromeg: hi06:54
jeromeghello06:54
janimojeromeg: nice work on bug triaging06:55
jeromegjanimo : no problem :)06:55
jeromegjanimo: don't forget to thank mr_pouit for all uploads fixing the bugs ;)06:56
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janimojeromeg: I have talked to  him several times alreday. but I meet you for the first time :)06:57
jeromegpleasure06:57
jeromegi won't be so involved in the next few months06:57
jeromegschool...06:58
somerville32Once I get things sorted out with my life, I'll be as active as I was pre-hospital.07:00
janimook shall we start?07:01
janimois anyone besides Cody and Jerome here for the xubuntu meeting?07:01
Balkhog@now07:04
ubotuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: September 08 2007, 17:04:06 - Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers07:04
jeromegjanimo : I might have to go in a few minutes07:04
janimosomerville32, jeromeg: I guess we'll talk among ourselves07:04
janimojeromeg: nooone here regarding teh website07:04
jeromegmay I sumerize what I have to say ?07:04
janimojeromeg: please do07:04
jeromegok07:04
jeromegI think that during this release a good improvement has been made, long standing bugs have been fixed07:05
jeromegfor example the non translated session quit dialog07:05
jeromegI've noticed with mr_pouit that xfce upstream is very reactive07:06
jeromegparticuraly the thunar dev07:06
jeromegoften solving crasher bugs in one day07:06
janimojeromeg: reactive? you mean you had good collaboration during gutsy with them?07:06
mr_pouithi (sorry for being late)07:06
janimohi Lionel07:06
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jeromegjanimo: yep very good I think07:06
janimojeromeg: good07:06
jeromegwe have been solving crashing bugs in thunar, panel07:07
jeromegvery quickly07:07
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Canonical Desktop Team
jeromegcompared with gnome dev for example07:07
janimohow is  the number of new bugs vs the closed ones07:07
jeromegwell I think we have closed a lot07:07
janimojeromeg: what example can you give of a gnome dev07:07
janimojeromeg: that you compare with07:07
jeromegnautilus for example07:07
jeromegthey don't even answer07:08
mr_pouitno so many new bugs07:08
mr_pouit*not07:08
jeromegsecond point, but I think it will change now with automatic apport07:08
janimoprobbaly they have a lot of duplicate bug they're among the top apps in gnome bugzilla07:08
mr_pouitbut I am afraid that's because there are very few testers :/07:08
jeromegthere are a lot of non reported bugs07:08
jeromegyep that's what I was going to tell07:09
jeromegjust one example : it took 4 tribes release to notice that panels were crashing when you removed one07:09
janimoare there any fixes in what will be upstream xfce4 4.2.2 that are important to us?07:09
janimojeromeg: indeed we have very poor and uncoordonated testiong07:10
jeromegjanimo : I must say that a lot of "bug" are resulting of the ton of patches we have07:10
janimojeromeg: for instance?07:10
jeromegwe diverge too much from upstream07:10
jeromegjanimo : for example the mounting features of exo-mount/gnome-mount07:11
mr_pouitjanimo: the most important (xfwm4 & panel bugs with gtk 2.11.6) are already in the packages07:11
jeromegit's a pain in the ass to report bugs to upstream concerning this07:11
janimojeromeg: that will stay that way until exo is as good as gnome mount for us07:11
jeromegwe never now if it's our fault or upstream's07:11
janimojeromeg: well bugs which arespecific to us should not be reported07:12
janimobut this is the same situataion with gnome ubuntu07:12
janimowe have very little patches actually07:12
jeromegjanimo: yep but you have to notice it before ;)07:12
janimojeromeg: do you know any other cases were bugs are caused by our patches?07:12
jeromegjanimo : yes but our patches involve a quite big change07:12
jeromegjanimo : for example the dialog of quitting session07:13
jeromegwas our problem07:13
jeromegbut worked like a charm upstream07:13
janimojeromeg: what bug does it cause? (I think I knew one but forgot it)07:13
jeromegjanimo : translation; but mr_pouit  fixed it07:13
jeromegi got to go now sorry07:13
janimojeromeg: I wouln;d call missing trasnaltion a serios bug07:14
janimojeromeg: so 'ton of patches07:14
janimocausng many bugs is a bit of a strecth don't you think :) ?07:14
jeromegyep maybe I exagerated07:15
janimojeromeg: whe you considr that that patch allows swicth user hibernate suspend and better UI in that dialog07:15
jeromeg:)07:15
jeromegjust before leaving the other point I wanted to give my opinion on07:15
janimosimilarly gnome-mount is there so we can easily mount non removable drivers and crypted partitions07:15
jeromegand it's linked to what you are saying07:15
jeromegI think that we are moving away from xubuntu07:16
jeromegmore and more gnome apps/gnome libs are integrated07:16
jeromegI don't see the point of shipping xubuntu with all ubuntu apps07:16
jeromegmaybe it's better now07:17
jeromegbut it doesn't help in the inprovement of xfce in general07:17
janimojeromeg: not all ubuntu apps but some which make xubuntu easier to use withjout causing it to be too bloated07:17
jeromegjanimo : yep but every release  more and more are coming07:17
jeromegfor example, was it really essential to ship gnome-screensaver07:18
jeromeg?07:18
janimojeromeg: currenlty cd burnig and archiving are broken for newbie users on xubuntu07:18
janimojeromeg: why do you say that? 'more and more are coming'?07:18
mr_pouitthe main issue for me is using gnome apps when good xfce apps exist... ok for xfburn, it's broken, but for file-roller?07:18
janimoeach change is judged on its own, let's not forsee what is not in the future :)07:18
jeromegjanimo : on xubuntu-devel mailing list we can see that I think07:19
janimomr_pouit: you said you're not usng xarchiver07:19
janimoit is set to defayult here07:19
janimoand I have been annoyed by it a few times07:19
jeromegi think we should help upstream fixing bugs, forward them the bugs07:19
mr_pouitjanimo: yeah, but squeeze seems to be what we seek07:19
janimoit's UI (not the looks) but the behaviour sucks07:19
janimomr_pouit: squeeze is not even beta07:19
janimowe cannot use things which are not released07:20
jeromegok got to go07:20
jeromegjust said what i wanted to07:20
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janimofile-roller is mature has a good ui (DnD, navigating archive contents, open with app) regular release and repsonsive maintainer07:20
jeromegkeep up with the good work07:20
janimojeromeg: ok, thak you for coming07:20
jeromegand remember we are xubuntu with an X ;)07:21
mr_pouithttp://squeeze.xfce.org/ <<< why is it called 'release'?07:21
jeromegciao07:21
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mr_pouitI don't speak of ristretto which is in pre-alpha state :P07:21
janimomr_pouit: anything can be called a release :)07:21
janimoI am pretty sure that (since it was not touched since april) is not finished07:22
janimomr_pouit: have you tested squeeze?07:22
mr_pouityeah07:22
mr_pouitno issue07:22
janimoI just know its author started it with preformance in mind07:22
janimomr_pouit: better that xarchiver?07:22
BalkhogI see07:23
mr_pouitI prefer, but that's only my opinion07:23
somerville32I thought Xarchiver was a part of the Xfce4 family.07:23
janimosomerville32: that is an informal status and has little bearing n the quality of an app07:23
mr_pouitxarchiver is sort of dm-independent07:24
janimomr_pouit: well you should have packaged it bu now :) I thiught squeeze is unmaintained or abandoned07:24
janimomr_pouit: why what does squeeze depend on?07:24
mr_pouitjanimo: it's in my ppa, but it's too late for gutsy07:24
janimomr_pouit: any disadvantage you see in squeeze?07:24
mr_pouitsome weeks (or months?) ago, its author told us that he didn't consider it as stable/usable07:25
mr_pouitwhen we were speaking of xarchiver on the ML07:26
janimoI guess we have to trust him then07:26
mr_pouityeah07:26
janimoI'd really like us to start having stabe and mature apps in default07:26
janimowe have always been a bit edgy07:26
janimobecause xfce is for more knowledgable poeople07:26
janimobut I do not thyingk that is a very good idea07:26
janimoanymore07:26
janimoeasy to use and stable and fast07:27
janimoon a 256M machine ubuntu si crawling07:27
janimobut xubuntu is not friendly enough07:27
janimoso many ousers in that category are just mixing them anyway07:28
janimobesides, with file-roller the performance and memory consumtion arguments brought up by Giuseppe are irrelevant:07:28
janimoif xarchiver is better because it uses 40M instead of 120M07:29
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janimoin that case the 600K extra mem of libgnome depsa does not matter07:29
mr_pouitwhich program does still depend on libgnome in xubuntu?07:29
janimoso, the only thing I have with squeeze it seems inactivem, and it upstream told us it's not ready that's it07:30
janimootherwise I;d have nothing against putting itin gutsy now07:30
janimoI always added new apps to xubuntu even in the last weeks since wse cannot break ubuntu/kubuntu so we are sort of unoficially allowed07:30
janimoespecially since all those changed improved things :)07:31
mr_pouit(the upstream author is developing ristretto at the moment, I guess that's why squeeze is inactive now)07:31
janimomr_pouit: currently gnome-screensaver but that will go away when my libgnomekbd patch in upstream gets in the archve07:31
janimomr_pouit: oh, same author07:31
janimook07:31
mr_pouitI thought gnome-screensaver was already patched07:31
janimoso a good reaso not to use shiny new apps, they may jost stop being developed07:31
janimomr_pouit: g-s-s itslef yes,but it depends on libgnomekbd07:32
janimowhich is not yet07:32
janimobut noone notices since thoselibs are already on the CD since edgy07:32
mr_pouitok07:32
janimowe need them for a11y in the xubuntu live CD07:32
mr_pouitis g-s-s started by default now?07:33
janimoso CD space has not been an issue (only on the alternate)07:33
janimomr_pouit: if it isn;t it's abug07:33
janimoI changed xfce40utils a hwile ago to start it in preference to x-s-s07:33
mr_pouityeah, I saw the changelog07:33
janimothis way we get better integration with g-power-manager for thse who istall that07:34
janimomr_pouit: it starts on my laptop by default so at least in one case it works :)07:34
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mr_pouithere it still launch x-s-s :/07:34
janimomr_pouit: as fgor gnonme deps I keep sending patches to upstream, but they are sloow to apply them07:34
mr_pouitjanimo: yeah, I saw this for nm-applet07:35
janimomr_pouit: xinitrc is a configfile it may not have been touched by the update?07:35
janimomr_pouit: and gucharmap and the rest of the patches as wel were applied weeks afetr I filed them07:35
janimoit kind of sucks but at least they apply them evebntually07:35
janimofile-roller was an exception, the maintainer applied patches usually within 2 days07:36
janimoI got rid of some gnhome api's07:36
janimobut some are still left07:36
janimoit's less work anyway that starting things from scrath07:37
janimoand I wish people would understand that having fun is not always compatible with happy users07:37
janimomr_pouit: so on teh archiver front what do you say about switching to file-roller for beta?07:38
janimooh, and the majority of apps in xubuntu will only be in recommeneded07:38
janimoso anyone cand switch them out or remove them07:38
mr_pouityeah, I saw07:38
janimothis will cause less trouble for those who are more advanced and want sepcific apps07:38
mr_pouitI don't like file-roller very much... what are we gonna do when a stable squeeze is release?07:39
janimomr_pouit: we'll see then07:40
janimosqueeze or ristretto or xarchiver07:40
janimowaiting for another six month hoping is not a good07:40
janimoidea07:40
janimoxarhiver was put early in dapper because we had no tool at all07:40
janimoand in the hope it will quickly imporve07:40
janimowell it is more or less the same as a year ago07:40
janimoone advantage of the gnome apps (and gnome vs xfce) is the schedule07:41
janimoyou know how to plan in advance07:41
janimoand not get hurried decision just before release candidate07:41
mr_pouitthe point I don't like with all this is that we aren't going to create an integrated xfce desktop... only the xfce core with gnome apps picked up here and there07:41
janimomr_pouit: I do not like ngome deps, to be very clear.that's why I keep making those boring and thankless patches :)07:42
janimobut I prefer a good UI and default apps which I am not ashamed of07:42
janimomr_pouit: havig a core xfce desktop is not the goal of xubuntu07:42
janimoit is juts the best desktpo that is both friendly and not heavy07:43
janimobut the apps which are non core are not as good quality as xfce core07:43
mr_pouityeah07:43
janimoso it doesnot make sense to cary them just because their names start with x or xf07:43
janimousers do not care whether its' gnome xfce ubuntu07:44
janimonewbies I mean07:44
mr_pouitso we'll gain the 'friendly', but somewhat lose the 'light' and 'integrated' sides07:44
janimothey want osmehting to work as they are used tyo in wndows07:44
janimoor else they will say linux sucks and wait another year07:44
janimomr_pouit: yes, although I'd like to make clear that only gaion friendly when it is an essential feature07:45
mr_pouityes07:45
janimoso we will not put fspot instead of gqview vene though it is 10 times friendlier :)07:45
janimoand there's the separate issue of always running and occasioanl apps07:45
janimobrasero or file-roller you start once do somehting and close07:45
janimoso you only lose memory explicitely07:46
janimosoince both handel large amounts of data their code memory is less relevant07:46
janimoOTOH getting things by default in the panel or systray is another issue07:46
janimowe added trash when it was available07:46
janimoit was a firendly feature but ate anothe 3-4 M as any gtk app does07:47
janimothis cycle the places menu: it is a stanslone plugin so it too consumes a few megs07:47
janimoand so on07:47
janimoprinter applet ditto07:47
janimolucklily all thise can be disabled and are not in the hard depends of the desktop07:47
somerville32IS the trash plugin external or internal?07:47
janimosomerville32: extrenal07:48
janimothat's why it takes up extra ram07:48
janimoupdate-notifier is the most requested app we do not have07:48
somerville32Personally I just install the ubuntu package07:48
mr_pouitToadstool was working on it07:48
janimothat if we add it, again will take up !3m07:48
janimomr_pouit: even if he gets rid of libgnome07:49
janimoit will take up 3 megs instead of 407:49
janimofor example07:49
janimothe numbers are not exact I got different measures as different time so they are not to be 100% trusted07:49
janimonetwork manager ditto07:49
janimoit would be nice to have easy wifi out of the box07:50
somerville32Why aren't developers using the ability to make their plugins internal? I thought that was recommended to cut down on unnecessary memory consumption.07:50
janimothat too consumes07:50
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janimosomerville32: internal plugins have the disadvantage that 1) if they crash the whole panel crashes07:50
janimo2) when their UI is in use the other panel UI is blocked07:51
janimoso if you pop up a context menu on an internal panel plugin the rest of the panel (clock, sys monitors) will not update07:51
janimoso they had their reasons for making plugins external07:51
somerville32What happened to threading?07:52
janimoI was thinking that making soem of the externals into internal would be good for memory but it may not be good for other07:52
janimosomerville32: I think you can only have one thread that does UI07:52
janimosomerville32: but yes this should be simpler and more effective (I have plans but usually nothing comes out of them)07:53
janimoso back to gnome apps07:53
janimowhat do we do for gutsy?07:53
janimoincrease the default mem consumption of the default desktop?07:54
janimoon the liveCD we alreay need 256 if I am not mistaken07:54
janimoif we are past 128 or even 196 anyway we may as well use the extra till 256 if we do not shoot over it07:54
janimothat would really be creepy for xubuntu07:55
somerville32I had to go buy ancient ram just so that I could continue to run Xubuntu07:55
janimosomerville32: how much?07:58
janimoram I mean07:58
somerville32I'm at 256mb07:58
somerville32I was at 128mb07:58
janimoneedd for liveCD or installed as well?07:59
somerville32For LiveCd...07:59
janimoaha07:59
somerville32on.07:59
somerville32*no.07:59
somerville32This is for running it07:59
janimoI don;t know how it managed to work in 128 for dapper08:00
somerville32I installed dapper with 256mb08:00
janimoteh ubuntu base system was smaller too back then08:00
mr_pouitjanimo: about g-s-s, xfce4-mcs-plugins needs to be patched imo: #define SCREENSAVER_EXE "xscreensaver-demo", we should replace it with gnome-screensaver-preferences maybe?08:00
janimomr_pouit: so do you have a strong opinion agains file-roller?08:00
janimomr_pouit: good catch, we have to08:01
mr_pouitjanimo: strong, no, I'am not very enthusiastic, that's all08:01
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vinzeHey08:01
janimomr_pouit: I am not enthusiastic either08:01
janimoI just think that its advantages outweigh the fact that is uses libgnome08:02
janimoand I plan to drop that for gnome 2.2208:02
janimowhat about brasero? this has much more and weired deps08:02
janimogstreamer is already in with pidgin AFAIK08:03
janimoand firefox 3.0 is using libgnome :(08:03
vinzeReally?08:03
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vinzeAs in: the multi-platform Firefox?08:03
janimoyes, for session management08:03
vinzeWow...08:03
janimovinze: as the messy multiplatform firefox08:04
vinzeYeah, true08:04
janimowell platform means OS/ARCH not desktop enviroments08:04
vinzeYeah of course08:04
somerville32Ok08:07
janimoany thoughts on the gnome apps issue, cody, vincent?08:09
vinzeI'm in favour of adding them08:09
vinzeWell, some of them only, obviously ;-)08:09
janimosince polls proved to be a failure (expect we sa w update notifier is most requested)08:09
janimowe could add some for beta and see the reactions08:10
janimohow it changes liveCD usability, and whether teh comment will be mostly posotive or negative08:10
janimowe have time after beta tpo reconsider or undo some of the changes if they prove unpopular or buggy08:11
somerville32Does our current testing process just involve making sure it loads/installs or are there post-install tests utilized by the testers.08:11
somerville32I know I started to develop some before Jim took over08:11
janimosomerville32: I know nothing about our test porcess08:11
vinzeWould be interesting, but perhaps it's a bit late in the process to change it again after the beta...08:11
janimovinze: well the changes will be 'drop' and have nothing (brasero, n-m, upadte notifier)08:12
janimoso it;s not code change that is intrusive08:12
janimothey do these kind of reversion all the time08:12
janimoin ubuntu08:12
vinzeOK, then I'd say: go for it :P08:12
janimothat's why it;'s a beta to see if it is worth havuing08:12
vinzeThere was this interesting comment on a Dutch site08:13
janimoalthough I'd like to wait till we have the n-m patch to drop gnome deps accepted08:13
vinzeWait, I'll translate it...08:13
somerville32update-notifier is just a background process that checks to see if upgrades are available and then uses the notification-daemon (which we already ship) to notify the user, right?08:13
janimoor else we cannot say that we want it in xubuntu if it;s already there08:13
janimosomerville32: u-n is a systray app in C and gnome libs08:13
janimoit does more that notifications08:14
janimostarts upadtemanager, restarts the session and maybe other things too08:14
somerville32I think u-n is something we can do for sure for Hardy08:16
somerville32Without the gnome apps08:16
mr_pouityeah08:16
janimosomerville32: I hope we do it now for gutsy08:16
janimosomerville32: and not a reimplementation is what you mean I hope08:16
vinzeHere is that Dutch comment:08:17
vinze"The question of whether Xfce ought to aim at speed or features is an easy one to me: features. The reason why is that Xfce is profiling itself as a Desktop Environment. That means it should come with worthy applications. Seeing that Xfce also uses GTK it's not unlogical that the discussion gets going about using Gnome applications.08:17
vinzeFurthermore, Xfce should realize that the definition of "old computer" is changing. Here, too, time doesn't stop. Of course there are still people on a PIII with little memory, but I think that the PIV can now be seen as basic computer. Those are now about 5 years old and are perfectly capable of running Gnome or KDE. Xfce should not be a problem at all."08:17
janimovinze: thanks for translating08:18
vinzenp08:18
janimothere are still old computers08:18
janimothse which were running xubuntu last year are not magically getting upgraded08:18
vinzeYeah I think we could go a bit older, but some people have really extreme systems08:18
janimobut we should consider usabiliy (not necessarily feature)08:18
somerville32I think it would be a good idea to set hard targets for performance08:19
janimoI do not mind if we don;t have all the features of gnome08:19
vinzesomerville32, yeah, I agree08:19
janimobut the ones we have I expect to work well08:19
somerville32I agree.08:19
vinzejanimo, exactly08:19
janimohence am pro file-roller but against nautilus with all its nice vfs features08:19
vinzefile-roller is really slow though08:20
janimowhatever we have it should not surpise or disappoint the user08:20
vinzeBut Nautilus especially is a no-go IMHO08:20
janimoand xfbunr and xarchiver have bith done that08:20
janimovinze: yes, I was jut making a comparison08:20
janimoobviously we do not put nautius in08:20
vinzeTo be honest, I haven't really heard many complaints about xarchiver except from you Jani08:20
janimovinze: do you know others using xubuntu/xarchiver?08:21
mr_pouit<offtopic> janimo: I have patched xfce4-mcs-plugin to launch g-ss, it works fine, except the help button (I guess it tries to start gnome-help). </offtopic>08:21
janimobesides myself I heard complaint from a person who used my computer (windows user)08:21
janimowas baffled why she cannot open the files inside the archyive08:21
vinzejanimo, no but I do listen quite a lot to Xubuntu users08:21
vinzeBut I have indeed not heard from users of whom I know are used to other archivers08:22
janimomr_pouit: right it tries to laucnh it (it should pop up an error dialog)08:22
janimovinze: they have to be novice users08:22
janimoas with ubuntu our target is novice users08:22
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janimobut whoi happen to have underpowered (by todays standards) machines08:22
vinzeOK, then I think it would be OK to switch it for now, but we should definitely reconsider it when a new version arrives (for the then-next release of Xubuntu)08:23
vinzeBut I'm glad that we actually have a target08:23
vinzeIf our target is "novice users" we should definitely be adding the Gnome-libs for unsatisfactory apps08:23
janimovinze: we should always consider alternatives and pick the best (according various criteria)08:23
vinzejanimo, ok08:23
janimoexpert users can install xubuntu and then tweak it as they wish08:24
janimothat has always been true08:24
janimothe reason we dod not say novice users so far is beacuse of lack of features08:24
janimobut those are slowly arriving (places menu, printing)08:24
vinzeYeah but I think Xubuntu has now matured to a level where we come quite close08:24
janimoindeed08:25
janimoI think adding gnome apps if they do not noticably degrade performance is ok08:25
vinzeI realized it just this afternoon when I was notified of updates, I would click "Install" and after a while I got the notification that I had to reboot my computer (at the time I wished)08:25
janimoxfec core and abi+gnuneric are fixed08:25
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janimobut all else is fair game I say08:25
vinzeI agree08:26
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janimovinze: so you do use update-notifier right?08:26
vinzeYeah08:26
vinzeBut I've added quite some Gnome and even Qt libs because I like experimenting with apps08:27
vinzeBut update-notifier is always the first thing I add08:27
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janimook, anything else do discuss08:28
janimo?08:28
=== vinze sets out to look at the wiki page
vinzeOh that was it already... :S08:29
mr_pouitsome things still to do08:29
mr_pouitthe 'About Xfce' menu icon08:29
mr_pouitiirc, that's the only one missing08:29
vinzeDid Jmak finalize his AA-icon already?08:30
mr_pouityes08:30
vinzeCool08:30
vinzexfce4-taskmanager doesn't have an icon with me, is that fixed already?08:30
janimomr_pouit: oh yes the hel picon08:30
mr_pouitvinze: xfce4-taskmanager has been replaced with gnome-system-monitor08:31
janimomr_pouit: we talked on the list but the thread dies: what about help on the desktop?08:31
vinzeOh yeah, that's true08:31
janimowe have the icons in the desktop menu08:31
janimowhat do you think of a launcher woth xfhelp4 and a nice icon in the top panel just as in ubuntu?08:32
janimoit laucnhes the browser with the xubuntu page08:32
vinzejanimo, On the panel or on the desktop?08:33
janimopanel08:33
vinzePanel would be fine IMO08:33
janimovinze: we keep the desktop clean08:33
vinzeYeah that's one of the most appreciated points across reviews ;)08:33
mr_pouitok, let's add it then08:34
mr_pouitsomething else about desktop layout: why do we use 2 panels?08:35
janimomr_pouit: :)08:36
janimomr_pouit: that's what upstream uses and ubuntu as well08:36
janimowe have quite a few apps and laucnhers08:36
janimoand they would be crowded on one panel08:36
janimothis way all 4 corners of the screen which are fats to access with the mouse are useful08:37
somerville32Alright, I have to run but it was nice chatting with you all again. Hopefully things will be a bit more settled for me during the next release cycle and I'll be able to assist with packaging again.08:37
mr_pouitI thought upstream used only one panel08:37
janimos/fats/fast/08:37
vinzeBy somerville3208:37
janimomr_pouit: hmm. oh, you're right08:37
janimomr_pouit: one panel at the middle bottom08:37
janimousing xubuntu for so long I forgot how the default looked like :)08:37
vinzemr_pouit, janimo, I think it also brings a clear separation between status-display-stuff (bottom panel) and action buttons (top panel)08:37
janimook, so then it's only ubuntu copying08:37
vinzejanimo, same here ;-)08:37
janimoanyway Jasper said upstream layout is historical and said the xubuntu one is ok08:38
vinzeYeah it was modelled after Mac OS's one I believe08:38
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janimoI am not sure what it was modeled after but I trust them on being usable by novices08:39
mr_pouitthere is also this proposition: http://www.xfce.org/images/about/screenshots/4.4-1.png08:40
vinzeI don't really see the use of having a non-full-width panel...08:40
vinzeWindows won't occupy that space, and it's easy to click so it would be a shame not to use it08:41
mr_pouitI use a single non-full-width panel, but with the auto-hide function08:41
mr_pouitbut that's probably to complicated for novice users08:41
vinzeBut auto-hide is very confusing for new users I think08:41
vinze;-)08:41
janimoexaclty08:42
janimowe aim for ease of use08:42
vinzeWTF?08:42
janimoadvanced users will fill up their panels anyway with all kinds of plugins and rearrange them vertically or whatever08:42
vinzeI just started downloading Tribe 5 and it's already at 42%!08:42
vinze53%...08:44
mr_pouitok, another question: is tango icon theme ok?08:44
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mr_pouitjmak proposed to use NuoveXT208:45
janimomr_pouit: I don't know what that looks like08:45
vinzeAre there any screenshots anywhere?08:45
janimois it packaged?08:45
vinze62%... :P08:45
janimoI am ok with testing with alreday packaged artwork08:45
janimootherwise it is probbaly too much work at this point08:46
mr_pouithttp://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/nuoveXT+2?content=5662508:46
mr_pouitand unfortunately it's not packaged08:46
janimoI say go with what we have now08:46
vinzeIt does look very nice08:46
janimotango icons look god08:47
janimowhen that new one is packaged it can be evaluated08:47
vinzeYeah, true, and they're complete08:47
janimobut until then it's an 'expert' thing08:47
vinzeOh and they're not SVG I see08:47
mr_pouitand lots of dups08:49
mr_pouit*duplicates08:49
mr_pouitthe author doesn't use any symlink08:49
vinzeOK, so any more to discuss?08:50
mr_pouitit seems not08:51
janimoso what is the decision:08:53
janimoadd file-roller to beta08:53
vinze+108:53
janimoadd update notifier to beta08:53
mr_pouitok08:53
vinze+108:53
janimonetwork manager?08:53
vinze+108:53
vinzeOh wait08:53
vinzeEmm...08:53
janimowith these two I'd like to get the libgnomes dropeed first08:53
janimoeven if we want u-n in08:53
vinzeAre you quite sure they *will* get dropped before Gutsy is released?08:54
janimovinze: no Iam not08:54
vinzeHmm...08:54
vinzeThey would be really nice to have08:54
mr_pouitjanimo: did asac reply?08:54
janimomr_pouit: nope08:54
mr_pouit:/08:54
janimopinged him on ircx as well but was not around08:54
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mr_pouitI'll update x-d-s to add the help launcher to the panel08:57
janimomr_pouit: ok, thanks08:58
janimomr_pouit: we may need an icon, if there's none for xfhelp feel free to take the one form gnome (yelp) :)08:58
mr_pouitwhat is xfhelp4 supposed to launch?08:59
mr_pouitthe xubuntu desktop guide or the xfce4 help?08:59
janimoxfbrowser409:01
janimoit is very indirect :)09:01
janimoand that in turn laucnhes x-ww-browser I think09:01
janimobut am not sure09:01
janimoanyway you can just hardcode to x-www-browser command if xfhelp4 is too convoluted09:01
janimoso it does not take too much time laucnhing09:02
janimoor even firefox direcly but that will berak if poeple switch browsers and remove ff09:02
mr_pouitthe xfce4 doc isn't available in lots of language09:03
mr_pouit+s09:03
mr_pouitthe french one is still for xfce 4.209:03
mr_pouit:/09:03
mr_pouitis this really a good idea?09:04
janimomr_pouit: no, we should laucnh the xubuntu doc in firefox09:04
janimoteh xfce docs are indeed poor we may even want to hide them from the desktop menu09:04
vinzeYeah I'd do that09:04
janimoso the xubuntu desktop guide is what we want to show09:04
mr_pouitok09:05
mr_pouitthe desktop guide is launched by the 'Help' entry in the menu btw09:05
janimoright, we can keep that then09:05
janimoI thougt it was the xfce help09:05
janimomr_pouit: what about brasero?09:08
janimothat is not as much for novices as an archiver09:08
janimoso probably not as high prio09:08
janimobut would be nice imo09:09
mr_pouitno new bug was reported since I uploaded the 0.6.1 bugfix release09:09
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janimomr_pouit: didi that close bugs in LP?09:11
mr_pouitno, because many people do not come back09:12
mr_pouitor they don't run gutsy, so they can't test09:12
janimook09:13
janimodo you think it should be in xubuntu default?09:13
janimoor rather do you think we shoukld have a cd burner?09:13
janimobecasue if we do we do not have other choice but brasero09:13
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mr_pouitbrasero is a good choice, it works fine09:14
janimook09:15
janimoso we add it09:15
vinzeBrasero still is being developed?09:15
janimovinze: yes09:15
vinzeIt looks good09:16
janimoit sure does09:16
mr_pouitthe 7.0 release is under development09:16
vinze(Not that I have any experience with CD burning applications)09:16
mr_pouitwith plugins support09:16
vinzeBut whoa, the dependencies...09:16
janimoI have used it recently although on ly for iso writing09:16
janimoI do not know how it's compilation window is working09:16
janimoindeed the depends are crazy09:16
vinzeI've got this feeling that that Xubuntu+gnome apps will be a huge success... :P09:17
mr_pouitwe can defer for hardy09:17
janimomr_pouit: I do not think they'll drop the depends until then09:18
janimomr_pouit: you think there will be another app?09:18
mr_pouitno ^^09:18
janimothat would be suboptimal anyway09:18
janimothe problem with gtk cd burners is that there are too many an non finished09:18
mr_pouitgnomebaker, graveman, xfburn...09:19
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mr_pouitok, I guess there is no more to discuss09:21
vinzeGood night then :)09:22
janimook, good night09:22
mr_pouitgood night09:22
janimoI'll write a summary to the list09:22
mr_pouitjanimo: do you update the seeds?09:22
vinzeThanks09:22
janimomr_pouit: yes with file-roller09:23
janimomr_pouit:but brasero needs to be in main if we ship it09:23
mr_pouityes09:23
janimoand with update notifier I'll wait a bit hoping it will be patched09:23
janimolet's see what Jeremie does09:23
mr_pouitok09:24
mr_pouitand what are we going to do with xarchiver?09:24
janimomr_pouit: put it in universe09:25
janimoand for hardy we'll look again at the archiver apps09:25
mr_pouitok09:25
janimobut early in the ccyle09:25
janimoanyone care to write a MIR for brasero? :)09:25
mr_pouitlet's ask on the list ;P09:26
mr_pouitthat would be great if other people could participate09:26
janimoI agree :)09:26
vinzeWhat's an MIR?09:27
mr_pouitmain inclusion request09:27
vinzeOh :P09:27
vinzeOK, I'm off, bye09:29
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Canonical Desktop Team | 18 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
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