=== j^ [n=j^@2001:6f8:10f8:0:216:cbff:febd:7bfe] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:38] is anyone working on updating democracyplayer to miro? [12:39] j^: I don't know if RAOF will get near democracyplayer/miro again === LaserJock just got home with a 320GB eternal hard drive [12:40] that's pretty twice as much as the *total* disk space as I had previously in the house [12:41] the feisty package they provide can be compiled for gusty after updating python_boost lib name [12:41] I have a upload chich isn't accepted in ubuntu universe repositories yet, and I want to update that package in REVU. Do I have to change the version number of my package before uploading or should-I keep the actual version number? [12:41] which* [12:41] LaserJock: felt like that last week, but it was 2TB i had in my bag [12:41] LaserJock: a hard drive that never breaks? nice :) [12:45] LaserJock : It's like the day that I received my first laptop which had 80 Gb.. it was 40 times the place I had in my old computer... which was... well anyway :P [12:45] geser: haha, Freidian slip perhaps === LongPoin1yStick [n=mystery@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:46] so, maybe I'll rip some music now :-) [12:46] since people seem appauled last night that I still use CDs [12:47] LaserJock: I wasn't appauled, but I find it easier for me, as it saves my CDs from wear and tear, and it makes it easier to find the music I want to listen to, depending on the mood I'm in. [12:47] I wasn't trying to sway your decision. [12:48] well, I actually got it because of the Classmate PC I've got [12:48] which only has a 2GB flash drive [12:48] so I wanted something portable === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.student.PriceChild] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:49] right === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:02] oh gross [01:02] this external hard drive is formated ntfs [01:10] Yuck. [01:10] <_MMA_> lol [01:11] <_MMA_> "pre-formatted"? [01:11] <_MMA_> Odd. [01:13] hmm, so now I gotta figure out what to format it [01:13] perhaps I should have a smallish fat32 just in case [01:13] hmm, and maybe *gulp* I should LVM the whole thing === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-102-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:15] <_MMA_> LaserJock: You could always go EXT3 and use: http://www.fs-driver.org in windows. === mertiki [n=zxz@modemcable023.30-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Ex-Chat"] [01:17] <_MMA_> If you have cause to have files that are over 4GB (DVD images) FAT32 will be a issue. [01:19] _MMA_: have you tried that ext3 driver before? === ceros_ [n=user@c-76-111-84-156.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:20] <_MMA_> yes. Before linux was my primary OS. [01:20] <_MMA_> There's another I think. I cant readily find the link. [01:21] well, I just had another thought to === DarkMageZ [n=richard@ppp59-167-22-219.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:21] I usually always have a LiveCD around [01:21] so I should be able to have access to the files, regardless [01:22] <_MMA_> LaserJock: ntfs-3g has worked really well for me also. If you wanna stay NTFS. [01:23] blah, no way [01:23] I hardly ever boot into windows [01:23] <_MMA_> :) === Nightrose [n=lydia@amarok/rokymotion/nightrose] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cypher1 [n=cypher1@pool-71-187-249-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Martinp24 [n=martinp2@wikimedia/Martinp23] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lfittl [n=lfittl@2001:6f8:107e:40:213:2ff:fe05:abdb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === phanatic_ [n=phanatic@dsl54028306.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xtknight [n=xtknight@c-68-43-122-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Vorbote [n=vorbote@unaffiliated/vorbote] has joined #ubuntu-motu === javier_galicia [n=Javier@189.130.233.106] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Prezu_ [i=patryk@dug.net.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu yawns. [01:49] Morning all. [01:49] Hey Fujitsu. [01:50] hi Fujitsu [01:52] Hi TheMuso, LaserJock. [01:52] Thanks for the gimp stuff, StevenK. [01:53] Hi Fujitsu [01:56] Hi geser. === khermans [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-2caefebf544b6dd3] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lfittl [n=lfittl@2001:6f8:107e:40:213:2ff:fe05:abdb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Vorbote [n=vorbote@unaffiliated/vorbote] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === bigon [n=bigon@69.219-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:17] does somebody know if PPA can build packages from multiverse or if PPA can use the orig.tar.gz from the archive? [02:18] geser: The former: yes, but it's probably against the ToS. The latter: no. [02:19] mplayer and the like should be OK, as the code is under sane licenses. [02:19] I want to check if upgrading boost to 1.34.1 (new upstream) would be possible and want to use PPA for the rebuilds [02:19] and some packages build-depending on boost live in multiverse [02:20] this also means I've to upload all the orig.tar.gz :( [02:20] Unfortunately. It'd be nice if it grabbed it from publisher. I sense a wishlist bug. === effie_jayx [n=valles@ubuntu/member/effie-jayx] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu === avoine [n=avoine@modemcable003.251-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AlinuxOS [n=vsichi@host57-130-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === syssyphus [n=elw@pool-72-64-85-93.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:17] I was looking to get involved with ubuntu, is this where I go for a mentor? [03:19] Hi syssyphus [03:20] As far as I know mentor are only for a specific task or package [03:20] but I'm not sure [03:21] It's describe there: https://help.launchpad.net/MentoringManagement/ [03:23] ok, thanks === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jorgec [n=jorgec@ethos.battleaxe.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:37] j^: Miro is now out of the NEW queue I believe. At least I recieved a mail to that effect. [03:38] Hey all! I'm in Hobart. [03:38] Hey RAOF. Great to see you have uploaded something. :) === Pici [n=Pici@ool-4355be00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:40] Hey TheMuso! Yeah, I thought I'd done all the testing I could locally :) [03:42] RAOF: Well you can close the uus bug for it then. :p [03:42] TheMuso: I thought I'd already unsubscribed u-u-s. [03:42] RAOF: I dunno. I just thought that the bug is no longer needed. [03:43] TheMuso: Also, I thought it'd be closed-by-changelog :) [03:44] RAOF: If you did that in the changelog, yes it would. [03:46] how hardly frozen is Universe? === jdong wants to port lzma multithreading to gutsy... [03:46] jdong: UVFs can be filed, and bug fixes, but bug fixes are preferred. [03:46] UVFs are granted, but yeah, focus is bug fixing. [03:47] TheMuso: ok; this is primarily a feature addition for a little-used package [03:47] IMO a very beneficial one at that === RAOF wanted to UVFe kvm, but the difstat is like 10K lines. [03:48] jdong: If its not a new upstream version, we can get it in. [03:48] RAOF: Ouch. [03:48] well rightfully it should be done as a new release... but I think I'm jumping the gun... Oh well, gutsy+1 then backports then. === czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-014-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong grabs freebsd port and starts porting [03:54] RAOF: Personally, I think I'd approve it, given a good enough justification. === jdong kicks his DNS servers [03:56] grr === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:01] StevenK: I don't think it fixes that much. It provides some extra features, but our current kvm works. === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:07] what are the rules of maintainership? [04:08] i.e. these lzma changes required me to make substantial packaging changing (i.e. switching source tarball to a different vendor)... [04:08] I was wondering if that means I should put myself in as maintainer so the orig. maintainer doesn't get blamed? === jdong grumbles about quilt [04:14] RAOF: In which case, we stay put. Good call. === lakin [n=lakin@c-24-21-126-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:25] jdong: what's the best URL to point people to who are requesting backports? [04:25] LaserJock: wikipage tends to be most accurate [04:26] "How to request new packages" on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports [04:26] ah, excellent === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:26] jdong: how easy is it to get one? is it a long wait? [04:27] LaserJock: response speed is inversely proportional to the amount of homework I have :) [04:27] k, about what I expected :-) [04:27] LaserJock: but I do tend to skim through and at least push thru the backports I feel are low-risk/trivial [04:27] those get processed with relatively fast turnaround [04:27] do you have much help these days? [04:28] ScottK is helping some; and a few community members still are doing build tests for me [04:28] but more help is definitely appreciated [04:28] jdong: Further to that, if you want someone else to do build tests, I'm happy to donate CPU time [04:29] currently I have an automatic builder that helps a lot with managing the build test queue [04:29] jdong: Oh yes, is there a blacklist for backporting? [04:29] if only malone were faster ;-) [04:30] StevenK: most library stacks are off limits. anything that breaks backwards dependencies. [04:30] jdong: Can you add devscripts to that list, since backporting it is pointless? :-) [04:30] StevenK: ok I'll keep that in mind.... any reason why people try to backport devscripts? [04:31] Because I made requestsync better. [04:32] cool [04:34] jdong: My thought is it's much easier to pull the relevant script out of the source package, and copy it to ~/bin, rather than waste your time doing a backport that is pointless. [04:34] that's a valid point [04:38] hmm, I wonder what PPAs will do to -backports [04:38] I was thinking of backporting some science stuff with my PPA [04:38] it'll be interesting to try to integrate the two together [04:38] LaserJock: I don't think it will do anything, as backports can be touted as the officially tested set of packages. [04:38] when I have time [04:39] LaserJock: No, the only PPA pocket is RELEASE at this time. [04:39] Fujitsu: hmm? [04:39] LaserJock: SO if something breaks, someone is accountable, if the package was used from backports. [04:39] The only effect the lack of a BACKPORTS pocket is that you can't build against existing backports. [04:40] Fujitsu: I'm saying that maybe PPA will take some pressure off of -backports [04:40] or maybe people will get more intersted in -backports [04:40] because they are backporting in PPAs and want to get them "official" [04:40] I was just sort of thinking to myself [04:40] Oh, right, not -backports pockets in PPAs. [04:40] right [04:41] I was thinking of backporting some science stuff, because I can now with PPA [04:41] so it got me to thinking [04:41] I really don't like the restriction to one PPA per person. [04:42] yeah [04:42] They should at least provide flexible components or similar to allow for a split. [04:42] I've already talked to them about that [04:43] As I might want to use some stuff from my PPA on a machine somewhere, and not want some crackful SVN mplayer build that I'll likely upload soon. [04:43] They originally did have multiple archives, but a couple of months back it was reduced to one, as they said other use cases were better handled by team PPAs. [04:44] yes [04:44] I think Mark probably had something to do with that === mluser [n=mluser@ip68-0-70-23.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:45] I tried to make an argument for multiple PPAs (I think it might happen eventually) [04:45] But it just unhappened. [04:45] but all the ones I have would be covered via team PPAs [04:45] I think it'll rehappen ;-) [04:46] it seems sort of obvious that people will want to separate packages [04:46] Hopefully. === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu wonders how the main archive's cron.daily takes 45 minutes to run, when the PPA one is every 20 minutes, and doesn't take more than a few minutes. [04:48] Compare the archive size. === lakin_ [n=lakin@c-24-21-126-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:49] The main Ubuntu archive is the ballpark of 170Gb, isn't it? And there is also a mirror pulse to contend with. [04:49] It doesn't ... I forget the term... safely publish? every run, so it just has to regenerate the indices from the DB. === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:50] StevenK: It's 40G for sources and one arch for one release, iirc. [04:51] Yeah, but one arch and two releases doesn't make 80Gb [04:52] Heck, two arches, and two releases (no source) is tipping the scales at 47Gb [04:52] It's not as if it md5sums all 200GB each run. [04:52] I'd add source, but I think that'd eat through the 13Gb I have remaining. [04:53] StevenK: And how often are you fetching source anyway. [04:53] Only when you need to work on a package. [04:53] TheMuso: Depends on what I'm doing. Having source mirrored would have been useful when I did the 60 odd uploads for curl. === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:53] StevenK: heh true that. [04:54] Curl. Twitch. [04:54] I have i386+source === StevenK mirrors amd64 and i386 for Feisty and Gutsy. [04:54] runs me about 35-40GB [04:54] I want to be able to do funky repo-wide stuff [04:54] If I had a spare 200Gb, I'd mirror amd64, i386 and source for every supported release. === Fujitsu waits for du on feisty+gutsy i386+source to complete. === TheMuso is not really worried about a local mirror has his ISP has a quota free mirror to use. [04:55] it's a big waste of bandwidth for me [04:55] Yeah, but when I sync my mirror, I'm not paying for the bandwidth. :-) [04:55] but well, I just have a cron job for like 5am. I'm not using the bandwidth anyway [04:56] My ISP has non-counted downloads between midnight and midday, so I sync at 0005, and 0805 [04:56] might as well get my money's worth [04:56] 57G for feisty/gutsy i386/source === ceros [n=user@c-76-111-84-156.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:56] only 57? === luisbg [n=d33p@128.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:56] Source is big then, feisty/gutsy amd64/i386 is only 47 [04:56] StevenK: DO you also sync cd images? [04:57] TheMuso: Heck no. I point jidgo at my mirror and build an alternative CD in about 3 minutes. [04:57] StevenK: Doesn't help for live CDs. [04:57] I use jigdo with my ISP mirror for alternates. [04:58] I just rsync .isos [04:58] TheMuso: Sure, but if I need a desktop CD, I make an ISO from a Feisty CD I have and rsync [04:58] StevenK: Right. === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Whoopie_ [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:07] http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98 [05:07] Last time I checked we had ~70%... /me checks again. [05:07] Aw, down a bit [05:08] Still a very commanding lead over the next one. [05:08] I liked madduck's comment [05:09] I'm surprised Debian is so far above everyone else. [05:09] And since Debian is #2, the pairing is doing very well. [05:09] LaserJock: Yeah, isn't it great? [05:09] yes, if you take Debian and Ubuntu together it's pretty huge [05:10] And 7% is distro-neutral. [05:10] I'm glad to know we are so volatile ;-) [05:10] well, it's sad that they have to pick one === tonyyarusso is adding a comment that he ideally would want ALL helped out, esp driver-wise, especially Debian & Ubuntu, but votes for Ubuntu for being pre-installed. [05:10] but support would be a nightmare [05:10] -/me sighs. [05:10] `Ubuntu is more polished than Debian and has a much smaller package set. Debian (unstable) gets packages updated more frequently and has a lot more to choose from.' [05:10] Yes, yay for complete mis-information. [05:10] well [05:11] if you compare unstable to Ubuntu Main it's not far off [05:13] Don't they have almost identical package numbers? === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [05:14] tonyyarusso: We have more. [05:15] We have all Debian packages but a few from non-free and contrib (and some kernel bits, and a few that are specific to Debian archs). [05:15] ah [05:15] On top of that, we have our depressingly large number of Ubuntu-only packages. [05:15] Which we *really* need to do something about in the near future. [05:16] Fujitsu: How do you find maintainers for them all for Debian? [05:16] Or they'll just rot for a few more releases. [05:16] Fujitsu: Yes, once things settle into place for my fall a little more I will be looking for help getting my (one so far, probably more in the future) package up into Debian too. [05:16] TheMuso: I mean killing them off, probably. [05:16] Fujitsu: ah ok [05:16] Fujitsu: Do we maintain a conclusive list of such packages? [05:17] tonyyarusso: I'll give you a probably-correct link in a sec. [05:17] Fujitsu: Well lsr is one thats not really maintained upstream, and practically has a non-existant user-base in Ubuntu, so it can go as far as I'm concerned. [05:17] actually, its dead upstream. [05:17] Most of them have a non-existent userbase, non-existent maintainer, and haven't been touched since they were uploaded. [05:18] Heh. [05:18] tonyyarusso: http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html is a fairly good list. [05:18] TheMuso: doesn't Orca replace that? === apachelogger_ [n=me@N859P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:18] I should actually see about getting one that I originally got uploaded into Debian... [05:18] Fujitsu: Nothing automatic though [05:18] tonyyarusso: Not exactly replace it, but its the way forward from here. [05:18] ah [05:18] tonyyarusso: That's automatically generated. [05:18] Just a diff of sid/gutsy package lists, basically. [05:19] oh, okay [05:19] The removals list is mostly bogus, however. [05:19] Fujitsu: Can you share the script you used? ;) [05:19] tonyyarusso: It's mdt. === javier_galicia [n=Javier@189.130.233.106] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:19] !info mtd [05:19] Package mtd does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas [05:19] !info mdt [05:19] Package mdt does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas [05:19] Not in the repos. [05:19] ah [05:20] !multidistrotools [05:20] Hm, there's no factoid on it at all. [05:20] It's in various bzr branches, the main one at the moment being mine (http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/multidistrotools), I believe. [05:20] Or LaserJock's might have been revived since tiber died. [05:22] ok [05:22] As you can see, we have quite a few packages not in Debian. === predius_ [n=predius@190.8.154.185] has joined #ubuntu-motu === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-41.auto.rp80.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [i=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mattva01 [n=matthew@c-69-143-122-78.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [i=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [i=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mluser [n=mluser@ip68-0-70-23.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:55] hmm, bit of a netsplit? === Fujitsu notes the origin of a lot of foreign packages is in the email to ubuntu-changes-auto, and that almost none of the mention repos exist any more. === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bszmyd [n=bszmyd@76.25.37.50] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:12] Fujitsu: is ubuntu-changes-auto still used? [06:21] LaserJock: I don't think so, but I'll check. [06:22] LaserJock: Not since we moved to Soyuz. [06:22] Fujitsu: then I don't get what you were saying [06:22] anyone here use Eclipse? [06:22] LaserJock: We synced a large number of packages from strange sources during hoary/breezy, none of which have been touched since. [06:23] oh [06:23] apt-get.org ? [06:23] I didn't previously think there was a way to differentiate them from the rest. [06:24] that's cool [06:24] I wondered about that as well [06:24] We probably want to kill a lot of them. [06:28] depends I guess [06:28] it used to be we wanted them [06:29] but it seems like there's more emphasis on having gardened repos now :-) [06:30] Some were synced in hoary from who knows where, and the last changelog entry is from way back in '02. === Fujitsu checks popcon for various ancient ones. === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Frogzoo [n=Frogzoo@202.155.165.25] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:45] do i still post to REVU if I'm trying to get a uvf execption for a package? === eagles0513875 [n=jonathan@c-98-199-46-80.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:47] I worry that PPAs for some may be an invitation to get crack out there, and a lot of users' systems will break. [06:47] as a result of using some random person's PPA with some random package update that hasn't been widely tested. [06:49] TheMuso: Yep, that is the main fear at the moment. === eagles0513875 [n=jonathan@c-98-199-46-80.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:55] TheMuso: on the other hand, that's also their main use - to get crack more widely distributed for testing [06:55] catch 22? === rhysp [n=frenzal1@58.174.36.12] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:57] Yep. [06:58] So craigslist.... IBM server from 1999, free. I may have to get it just for giggles. === Fujitsu can see more disasters like Trevio's sources.list appearing as hundreds of technically inept people use PPAs to distribute their crack without need for web hosting or any kind of skill. [06:59] Fujitsu: I had that in mind when I was writing my above fear. [07:04] I think that perhaps the issue needs to be solved in a different way [07:04] people will always be throwing up 3rd party repos [07:04] sometimes they are great, sometimes they are a disaster [07:05] trying to squash them isn't any good [07:05] What can we do about them? [07:06] PPA makes it a lot easier, though. [07:06] not a ton [07:06] the packages still have to build [07:06] They don't need to set up anything like falcon, nor do they need web hosting. [07:06] PPA just provides a bit more convienience [07:07] They can set it up in seconds. [07:07] yeah, but web hosting and apt-ftparchive is pretty trivial [07:07] The barrier to entry is pretty much eliminated. [07:07] I think the barrier is in making a decent source package [07:07] They don't have to be decent to build. [07:07] well, s/decent/buildable/ === LifeHacker [n=aanjhan@59.92.9.43] has joined #ubuntu-motu === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-41.auto.rp80.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:08] I *do* think we're going to have to do more checking on the source of packages when people file bugs [07:08] Yep. [07:08] I think there should be some automated way to do that [07:09] Hm, I wonder if it would be nice to have PPA rejecting Ubuntu-looking versions. [07:09] Like, no *ubuntuX [07:09] That way we eliminate confusion. [07:09] And they really shouldn't be using that versioning anyway. [07:10] Whats the recommended version for PPA packages? [07:10] why not? [07:10] TheMuso: ~ppaX seems to be normal. [07:10] I've seen stuff like 0ubuntu0ppa1 [07:10] That works too. [07:11] Like we don't have -X on new packages, they shouldn't have ubuntuX [07:11] gotcha. [07:11] it just seems like the idea that we can limit people to just what's in our repos is a failed model [07:12] I'm not debating that. [07:12] But they shouldn't carry our versioning, or it gets very confusing. [07:12] I'd recommend something like 0.7.10-0ubuntu0~7.10-ppa1, for best upgradability. [07:12] not sure if that second hyphen works - make it a period if need be [07:12] ugg [07:12] try to get people to understand that [07:12] tonyyarusso: I've used ~ppa1~feisty1 for my backport of Gutsy PPA stuff. [07:13] Fujitsu: That will run into issues if you do PPA builds for more than just feisty. [07:13] tonyyarusso: Why? [07:13] I have 0.9.7-0ubuntu1~ppa1 for Gutsy, and 0.9.7-0ubuntu1~ppa1~feisty1 for Feisty. [07:13] if it's any consolation, i dont have web hosting, and ive only started reading about packaging in the last two weeks === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:14] and ive got a few nice packages. i doubt they're perfect [07:14] Fujitsu: actually, hrm [07:15] I think my versioning is fairly sane. [07:15] as far as the versioning goes, it would help if dch was smarter [07:15] pwnguin: definatly anybody who bothers to hang out in here and learn packaging is quite a bit ahead :-) [07:15] pwnguin: What extra intelligence should it have? [07:15] Fujitsu: Not in the way I initially thought with that, but you'll still have a problem if someone dist-upgrades from say dapper to edgy, still using your PPA, since apt doesn't like alphabetical versioning. [07:15] tonyyarusso: It's the normal backport versioning... [07:16] Fujitsu: Oh? Odd. [07:16] Fujitsu: at the moment, when i dch --increment, it throws -ubuntu1 on top of ppa [07:16] 0ubuntu1 > 0ubuntu1~ppa1 > 0ubuntu1~ppa1~feisty1 > 0ubuntu1~ppa1~edgy1... [07:16] pwnguin: Ah, I see. Might want to file a bug about that. [07:16] Or maybe wait until we have officially sanctioned versioning. [07:17] Also, automatix didnt need ppas to inflict damage on users [07:17] Fujitsu: perhaps it works as long as we have alphabetically sequental development names? Surely a case like Hoary -> Breezy would have broken with that scheme. [07:17] tonyyarusso: Right. There is a reason we changed. [07:18] ah [07:18] That would have been part of it, I presume [07:18] Otherwise nothing sorts properly. === tonyyarusso is more comfortable with numbers, just in case [07:18] plus, eventually we'll hit Z ;) [07:18] As all non-alphabetical releases are dead, it should work. === LaserJock notes that his first ppa upload had a version of 0.5-1 ;-) === Fujitsu stabs LaserJock. [07:21] speaking of ppas and motu, whats the odds of getting something from debian experimental into universe? [07:21] There is one change that IMO has to be done: making pkgbinarymangler mangle Maintainer to the PPA owner. [07:21] pwnguin: When we're not frozen, it could probably happen. [07:21] Depending on how experimental it is. [07:22] it's a bit unfinished === bszmyd_ [n=bszmyd@c-24-8-191-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:23] we get a number of packaging for Main from experimental [07:23] it just depends on the package [07:23] its a pam module that doesn't seem to set anything you'd need to actually use it [07:24] ie registering fingerprints with users [07:24] adding to common-auth === j^ [n=j^@j.bootlab.org] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu runs away at the mention of pam [07:24] yea === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-41.auto.rp80.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === svaksha [n=svaksha@unaffiliated/svaksha] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:44] man, this seems bright. user seems to have a messed up sources.list on gutsy so cps his old feisty one and tries to install stuff [07:45] hah [07:45] Hahah. [07:45] now they have an unbootable system [07:45] interesting [07:45] Hahaha. Link? [07:45] (so we can laugh at them) === Hobbsee attempts to make her sd card reader work [07:46] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=546026 [07:46] Mine has worked since Edgy, though the xD and Memory Stick bits didn't last time I checked. [07:47] this one might be an interesting read as well http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=546467 [07:47] `I dont think it would kill Ubuntu if thats what you're wondering.' [07:48] i should by an sd card and see how well it works [07:48] the sd card doesnt mount here. most annoying. [07:49] what's dmesg say? [07:49] i recall sd support being a fairly new feature [07:49] Automounting seems broken for me at the moment, but if I mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 it works. [07:49] mmc [07:49] thats the older spec [07:50] Yes, but it's what the kernel normally calls SD/MMC block devices. [07:50] pwnguin: http://rafb.net/p/pOANQa85.html [07:51] oh, here, it's just not mounted. [07:51] yay! [07:51] Hobbsee: Tried mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1? [07:51] Yeah, that's what I thought. [07:51] just did. works a charm. [07:51] Automounting seems largely screwed at the moment. [07:51] how useful === Zic [n=Zic@Final-Fantasy.FF-IRC.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:52] er, would help if i mounted it read/write, i expect. [07:52] Possibly. [07:52] Fujitsu: er, how? [07:53] seeing as i'm on the road to asking stupid questions today [07:53] Hobbsee: Mount with `rw', though that should be default. [07:53] Check the RO tab thing on the card. === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:55] Fujitsu: the lock is not enabled, i tried with rw, adn i still get permission denied. [07:55] ah. need sudo, for some reason. [07:55] to mount things? [07:55] yes [07:55] Hobbsee: Ah, yes, it won't be mounted as your user. [07:56] Someone didn't use Linux before the time of automounting? [07:56] Fujitsu: i've only been using linux for <3 years, yes. [07:56] Ah. [07:57] but i'd been able to manually mount as root, and be able to read/write the directory as the user [07:57] oh, maybe i needed to chown the dir above [07:57] O_o [07:57] or perhaps use -o user [07:57] Hobbsee: hehe, I went through the same thing today ;-) [07:57] the mount manpage is as long as it is informative [07:57] LaserJock: :) [07:58] pwnguin: this is true [07:58] you'll get lost! [07:58] I was pretty sure Gnome mounts stuff like usb disks as the user [07:58] but maybe not [07:58] but in KDE at least today I had to "adjust" some thing [07:59] hald/dbus should probably handle it fine in gnome if working correctly === khermans [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-8baa8e4a42201a5f] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:03] hmm, there isn't any weird freezes going on right? just UVF and FF [08:03] correct === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-41.auto.rp80.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock ponders actually uploading something [08:04] oh, adn teh "pay Hobbsee $50 for every upload" freeze [08:04] LaserJock: plus the one on your assets if you question the president === Fujitsu uploaded something for the first time in a while this morning. [08:05] I've mostly been requesting syncs for Debian bugfixes lately :( [08:05] that's good too [08:05] moquist rewrote a lot of the moodle packaging [08:05] and I think it seems good to go [08:05] so perhaps I'll upload it and see if it breaks anybody's machine :-) [08:06] Mmm, moodle. Haven't tried that in about 3~4 years. [08:06] then we can get the MIR done and get it into Main [08:07] moodle has been a bit of a thorn in our side [08:08] Why? [08:08] everybody wants it but it's a bugger to get into Main [08:08] Ah. [08:08] the security history isn't the best [08:08] but it seems upstream has done better lately [08:09] so we've rewritten the database handling in the packaging to get rid of the www-config deps, etc. [08:09] pretty much had to touch every file in debian/ [08:10] Ow. [08:10] hmm, I'm guessing it's not a good sign when all apt does is core-dump [08:10] Probably not. [08:11] Fujitsu: especially since it was the first packaging project for the guy who did it, moquist [08:11] Better that than core-dump and eating your filesystem for supper, I guess. [08:11] Hm, not a bad first effort. [08:11] talk about getting dumped in the deep end of the pool [08:11] Yeah. === bigon [n=bigon@69.219-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:11]