[12:38] <j^> is anyone working on updating democracyplayer to miro?
[12:39] <geser> j^: I don't know if RAOF will get near democracyplayer/miro again
[12:40] <LaserJock> that's pretty twice as much as the *total* disk space as I had previously in the house
[12:41] <j^> the feisty package they provide can be compiled for gusty after updating python_boost lib name
[12:41] <mertiki> I have a upload chich isn't accepted in ubuntu universe repositories yet, and I want to update that package in REVU. Do I have to change the version number of my package before uploading or should-I keep the actual version number?
[12:41] <mertiki> which*
[12:41] <j^> LaserJock: felt like that last week, but it was 2TB i had in my bag
[12:41] <geser> LaserJock: a hard drive that never breaks? nice :)
[12:45] <mertiki> LaserJock : It's like the day that I received my first laptop which had 80 Gb.. it was 40 times the place I had in my old computer... which was... well anyway :P
[12:45] <LaserJock> geser: haha, Freidian slip perhaps
[12:46] <LaserJock> so, maybe I'll rip some music now :-)
[12:46] <LaserJock> since people seem appauled last night that I still use CDs
[12:47] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I wasn't appauled, but I find it easier for me, as it saves my CDs from wear and tear, and it makes it easier to find the music I want to listen to, depending on the mood I'm in.
[12:47] <TheMuso> I wasn't trying to sway your decision.
[12:48] <LaserJock> well, I actually got it because of the Classmate PC I've got
[12:48] <LaserJock> which only has a 2GB flash drive
[12:48] <LaserJock> so I wanted something portable
[12:49] <TheMuso> right
[01:02] <LaserJock> oh gross
[01:02] <LaserJock> this external hard drive is formated ntfs
[01:10] <TheMuso> Yuck.
[01:10] <_MMA_> lol
[01:11] <_MMA_> "pre-formatted"?
[01:11] <_MMA_> Odd.
[01:13] <LaserJock> hmm, so now I gotta figure out what to format it
[01:13] <LaserJock> perhaps I should have a smallish fat32 just in case
[01:13] <LaserJock> hmm, and maybe *gulp* I should LVM the whole thing
[01:15] <_MMA_> LaserJock: You could always go EXT3 and use: http://www.fs-driver.org in windows.
[01:17] <_MMA_> If you have cause to have files that are over 4GB (DVD images) FAT32 will be a issue.
[01:19] <LaserJock> _MMA_: have you tried that ext3 driver before?
[01:20] <_MMA_> yes. Before linux was my primary OS.
[01:20] <_MMA_> There's another I think. I cant readily find the link.
[01:21] <LaserJock> well, I just had another thought to
[01:21] <LaserJock> I usually always have a LiveCD around
[01:21] <LaserJock> so I should be able to have access to the files, regardless
[01:22] <_MMA_> LaserJock: ntfs-3g has worked really well for me also. If you wanna stay NTFS.
[01:23] <LaserJock> blah, no way
[01:23] <LaserJock> I hardly ever boot into windows
[01:23] <_MMA_> :)
[01:49] <Fujitsu> Morning all.
[01:49] <TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu.
[01:50] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[01:52] <Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso, LaserJock.
[01:52] <Fujitsu> Thanks for the gimp stuff, StevenK.
[01:53] <geser> Hi Fujitsu
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Hi geser.
[02:17] <geser> does somebody know if PPA can build packages from multiverse or if PPA can use the orig.tar.gz from the archive?
[02:18] <Fujitsu> geser: The former: yes, but it's probably against the ToS. The latter: no.
[02:19] <Fujitsu> mplayer and the like should be OK, as the code is under sane licenses.
[02:19] <geser> I want to check if upgrading boost to 1.34.1 (new upstream) would be possible and want to use PPA for the rebuilds
[02:19] <geser> and some packages build-depending on boost live in multiverse
[02:20] <geser> this also means I've to upload all the orig.tar.gz :(
[02:20] <Fujitsu> Unfortunately. It'd be nice if it grabbed it from publisher. I sense a wishlist bug.
[03:17] <syssyphus> I was looking to get involved with ubuntu, is this where I go for a mentor?
[03:19] <avoine> Hi syssyphus
[03:20] <avoine> As far as I know mentor are only for a specific task or package
[03:20] <avoine> but I'm not sure
[03:21] <avoine> It's describe there: https://help.launchpad.net/MentoringManagement/
[03:23] <syssyphus> ok, thanks
[03:37] <RAOF> j^: Miro is now out of the NEW queue I believe.  At least I recieved a mail to that effect.
[03:38] <RAOF> Hey all!  I'm in Hobart.
[03:38] <TheMuso> Hey RAOF. Great to see you have uploaded something. :)
[03:40] <RAOF> Hey TheMuso!  Yeah, I thought I'd done all the testing I could locally :)
[03:42] <TheMuso> RAOF: Well you can close the uus bug for it then. :p
[03:42] <RAOF> TheMuso: I thought I'd already unsubscribed u-u-s.
[03:42] <TheMuso> RAOF: I dunno. I just thought that the bug is no longer needed.
[03:43] <RAOF> TheMuso: Also, I thought it'd be closed-by-changelog :)
[03:44] <TheMuso> RAOF: If you did that in the changelog, yes it would.
[03:46] <jdong> how hardly frozen is Universe?
[03:46] <TheMuso> jdong: UVFs can be filed, and bug fixes, but bug fixes are preferred.
[03:46] <TheMuso> UVFs are granted, but yeah, focus is bug fixing.
[03:47] <jdong> TheMuso: ok; this is primarily a feature addition for a little-used package
[03:47] <jdong> IMO a very beneficial one at that
[03:48] <TheMuso> jdong: If its not a new upstream version, we can get it in.
[03:48] <TheMuso> RAOF: Ouch.
[03:48] <jdong> well rightfully it should be done as a new release... but I think I'm jumping the gun... Oh well, gutsy+1 then backports then.
[03:54] <StevenK> RAOF: Personally, I think I'd approve it, given a good enough justification.
[03:56] <jdong> grr
[04:01] <RAOF> StevenK: I don't think it fixes that much.  It provides some extra features, but our current kvm works.
[04:07] <jdong> what are the rules of maintainership?
[04:08] <jdong> i.e. these lzma changes required me to make substantial packaging changing (i.e. switching source tarball to a different vendor)...
[04:08] <jdong> I was wondering if that means I should put myself in as maintainer so the orig. maintainer doesn't get blamed?
[04:14] <StevenK> RAOF: In which case, we stay put. Good call.
[04:25] <LaserJock> jdong: what's the best URL to point people to who are requesting backports?
[04:25] <jdong> LaserJock: wikipage tends to be most accurate
[04:26] <jdong> "How to request new packages" on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[04:26] <LaserJock> ah, excellent
[04:26] <LaserJock> jdong: how easy is it to get one? is it a long wait?
[04:27] <jdong> LaserJock: response speed is inversely proportional to the amount of homework I have :)
[04:27] <LaserJock> k, about what I expected :-)
[04:27] <jdong> LaserJock: but I do tend to skim through and at least push thru the backports I feel are low-risk/trivial
[04:27] <jdong> those get processed with relatively fast turnaround
[04:27] <LaserJock> do you have much help these days?
[04:28] <jdong> ScottK is helping some; and a few community members still are doing build tests for me
[04:28] <jdong> but more help is definitely appreciated
[04:28] <StevenK> jdong: Further to that, if you want someone else to do build tests, I'm happy to donate CPU time
[04:29] <jdong> currently I have an automatic builder that helps a lot with managing the build test queue
[04:29] <StevenK> jdong: Oh yes, is there a blacklist for backporting?
[04:29] <jdong> if only malone were faster ;-)
[04:30] <jdong> StevenK: most library stacks are off limits. anything that breaks backwards dependencies.
[04:30] <StevenK> jdong: Can you add devscripts to that list, since backporting it is pointless? :-)
[04:30] <jdong> StevenK: ok I'll keep that in mind.... any reason why people try to backport devscripts?
[04:31] <StevenK> Because I made requestsync better.
[04:32] <jdong> cool
[04:34] <StevenK> jdong: My thought is it's much easier to pull the relevant script out of the source package, and copy it to ~/bin, rather than waste your time doing a backport that is pointless.
[04:34] <jdong> that's a valid point
[04:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what PPAs will do to -backports
[04:38] <LaserJock> I was thinking of backporting some science stuff with my PPA
[04:38] <jdong> it'll be interesting to try to integrate the two together
[04:38] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I don't think it will do anything, as backports can be touted as the officially tested set of packages.
[04:38] <jdong> when I have time
[04:39] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: No, the only PPA pocket is RELEASE at this time.
[04:39] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm?
[04:39] <TheMuso> LaserJock: SO if something breaks, someone is accountable, if the package was used from backports.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> The only effect the lack of a BACKPORTS pocket is that you can't build against existing backports.
[04:40] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm saying that maybe PPA will take some pressure off of -backports
[04:40] <LaserJock> or maybe people will get more intersted in -backports
[04:40] <LaserJock> because they are backporting in PPAs and want to get them "official"
[04:40] <LaserJock> I was just sort of thinking to myself
[04:40] <Fujitsu> Oh, right, not -backports pockets in PPAs.
[04:40] <LaserJock> right
[04:41] <LaserJock> I was thinking of backporting some science stuff, because I can now with PPA
[04:41] <LaserJock> so it got me to thinking
[04:41] <Fujitsu> I really don't like the restriction to one PPA per person.
[04:42] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:42] <Fujitsu> They should at least provide flexible components or similar to allow for a split.
[04:42] <LaserJock> I've already talked to them about that
[04:43] <Fujitsu> As I might want to use some stuff from my PPA on a machine somewhere, and not want some crackful SVN mplayer build that I'll likely upload soon.
[04:43] <Fujitsu> They originally did have multiple archives, but a couple of months back it was reduced to one, as they said other use cases were better handled by team PPAs.
[04:44] <LaserJock> yes
[04:44] <LaserJock> I think Mark probably had something to do with that
[04:45] <LaserJock> I tried to make an argument for multiple PPAs (I think it might happen eventually)
[04:45] <Fujitsu> But it just unhappened.
[04:45] <LaserJock> but all the ones I have would be covered via team PPAs
[04:45] <LaserJock> I think it'll rehappen ;-)
[04:46] <LaserJock> it seems sort of obvious that people will want to separate packages
[04:46] <Fujitsu> Hopefully.
[04:48] <StevenK> Compare the archive size.
[04:49] <StevenK> The main Ubuntu archive is the ballpark of 170Gb, isn't it? And there is also a mirror pulse to contend with.
[04:49] <Fujitsu> It doesn't ... I forget the term... safely publish? every run, so it just has to regenerate the indices from the DB.
[04:50] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: It's 40G for sources and one arch for one release, iirc.
[04:51] <StevenK> Yeah, but one arch and two releases doesn't make 80Gb
[04:52] <StevenK> Heck, two arches, and two releases (no source) is tipping the scales at 47Gb
[04:52] <Fujitsu> It's not as if it md5sums all 200GB each run.
[04:52] <StevenK> I'd add source, but I think that'd eat through the 13Gb I have remaining.
[04:53] <TheMuso> StevenK: And how often are you fetching source anyway.
[04:53] <TheMuso> Only when you need to work on a package.
[04:53] <StevenK> TheMuso: Depends on what I'm doing. Having source mirrored would have been useful when I did the 60 odd uploads for curl.
[04:53] <TheMuso> StevenK: heh true that.
[04:54] <StevenK> Curl. Twitch.
[04:54] <LaserJock> I have i386+source
[04:54] <LaserJock> runs me about 35-40GB
[04:54] <LaserJock> I want to be able to do funky repo-wide stuff
[04:54] <StevenK> If I had a spare 200Gb, I'd mirror amd64, i386 and source for every supported release.
[04:55] <LaserJock> it's a big waste of bandwidth for me
[04:55] <StevenK> Yeah, but when I sync my mirror, I'm not paying for the bandwidth. :-)
[04:55] <LaserJock> but well, I just have a cron job for like 5am. I'm not using the bandwidth anyway
[04:56] <StevenK> My ISP has non-counted downloads between midnight and midday, so I sync at 0005, and 0805
[04:56] <LaserJock> might as well get my money's worth
[04:56] <Fujitsu> 57G for feisty/gutsy i386/source
[04:56] <LaserJock> only 57?
[04:56] <StevenK> Source is big then, feisty/gutsy amd64/i386 is only 47
[04:56] <TheMuso> StevenK: DO you also sync cd images?
[04:57] <StevenK> TheMuso: Heck no. I point jidgo at my mirror and build an alternative CD in about 3 minutes.
[04:57] <TheMuso> StevenK: Doesn't help for live CDs.
[04:57] <TheMuso> I use jigdo with my ISP mirror for alternates.
[04:58] <LaserJock> I just rsync .isos
[04:58] <StevenK> TheMuso: Sure, but if I need a desktop CD, I make an ISO from a Feisty CD I have and rsync
[04:58] <TheMuso> StevenK: Right.
[05:07] <tonyyarusso> http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98
[05:07] <Fujitsu> Last time I checked we had ~70%... /me checks again.
[05:07] <Fujitsu> Aw, down a bit
[05:08] <tonyyarusso> Still a very commanding lead over the next one.
[05:08] <LaserJock> I liked madduck's comment
[05:09] <Fujitsu> I'm surprised Debian is so far above everyone else.
[05:09] <tonyyarusso> And since Debian is #2, the pairing is doing very well.
[05:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yeah, isn't it great?
[05:09] <LaserJock> yes, if you take Debian and Ubuntu together it's pretty huge
[05:10] <Fujitsu> And 7% is distro-neutral.
[05:10] <LaserJock> I'm glad to know we are so volatile ;-)
[05:10] <LaserJock> well, it's sad that they have to pick one
[05:10] <LaserJock> but support would be a nightmare
[05:10] <Fujitsu> -/me sighs.
[05:10] <Fujitsu> `Ubuntu is more polished than Debian and has a much smaller package set. Debian (unstable) gets packages updated more frequently and has a lot more to choose from.'
[05:10] <StevenK> Yes, yay for complete mis-information.
[05:10] <LaserJock> well
[05:11] <LaserJock> if you compare unstable to Ubuntu Main it's not far off
[05:13] <tonyyarusso> Don't they have almost identical package numbers?
[05:14] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: We have more.
[05:15] <Fujitsu> We have all Debian packages but a few from non-free and contrib (and some kernel bits, and a few that are specific to Debian archs).
[05:15] <tonyyarusso> ah
[05:15] <Fujitsu> On top of that, we have our depressingly large number of Ubuntu-only packages.
[05:15] <Fujitsu> Which we *really* need to do something about in the near future.
[05:16] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: How do you find maintainers for them all for Debian?
[05:16] <Fujitsu> Or they'll just rot for a few more releases.
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: Yes, once things settle into place for my fall a little more I will be looking for help getting my (one so far, probably more in the future) package up into Debian too.
[05:16] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: I mean killing them off, probably.
[05:16] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: ah ok
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: Do we maintain a conclusive list of such packages?
[05:17] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: I'll give you a probably-correct link in a sec.
[05:17] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Well lsr is one thats not really maintained upstream, and practically has a non-existant user-base in Ubuntu, so it can go as far as I'm concerned.
[05:17] <TheMuso> actually, its dead upstream.
[05:17] <Fujitsu> Most of them have a non-existent userbase, non-existent maintainer, and haven't been touched since they were uploaded.
[05:18] <TheMuso> Heh.
[05:18] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html is a fairly good list.
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> TheMuso: doesn't Orca replace that?
[05:18] <TheMuso> I should actually see about getting one that I originally got uploaded into Debian...
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: Nothing automatic though
[05:18] <TheMuso> tonyyarusso: Not exactly replace it, but its the way forward from here.
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> ah
[05:18] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: That's automatically generated.
[05:18] <Fujitsu> Just a diff of sid/gutsy package lists, basically.
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> oh, okay
[05:19] <Fujitsu> The removals list is mostly bogus, however.
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: Can you share the script you used?  ;)
[05:19] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: It's mdt.
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> !info mtd
[05:19] <ubotu> Package mtd does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> !info mdt
[05:19] <ubotu> Package mdt does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
[05:19] <Fujitsu> Not in the repos.
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> ah
[05:20] <Fujitsu> !multidistrotools
[05:20] <Fujitsu> Hm, there's no factoid on it at all.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> It's in various bzr branches, the main one at the moment being mine (http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/multidistrotools), I believe.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> Or LaserJock's might have been revived since tiber died.
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> ok
[05:22] <Fujitsu> As you can see, we have quite a few packages not in Debian.
[05:55] <LaserJock> hmm, bit of a netsplit?
[06:12] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: is ubuntu-changes-auto still used?
[06:21] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't think so, but I'll check.
[06:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Not since we moved to Soyuz.
[06:22] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: then I don't get what you were saying
[06:22] <nixternal> anyone here use Eclipse?
[06:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: We synced a large number of packages from strange sources during hoary/breezy, none of which have been touched since.
[06:23] <LaserJock> oh
[06:23] <LaserJock> apt-get.org ?
[06:23] <Fujitsu> I didn't previously think there was a way to differentiate them from the rest.
[06:24] <LaserJock> that's cool
[06:24] <LaserJock> I wondered about that as well
[06:24] <Fujitsu> We probably want to kill a lot of them.
[06:28] <LaserJock> depends I guess
[06:28] <LaserJock> it used to be we wanted them
[06:29] <LaserJock> but it seems like there's more emphasis on having gardened repos now :-)
[06:30] <Fujitsu> Some were synced in hoary from who knows where, and the last changelog entry is from way back in '02.
[06:45] <bszmyd> do i still post to REVU if I'm trying to get a uvf execption for a package?
[06:47] <TheMuso> I worry that PPAs for some may be an invitation to get crack out there, and a lot of users' systems will break.
[06:47] <TheMuso> as a result of using some random person's PPA with some random package update that hasn't been widely tested.
[06:49] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yep, that is the main fear at the moment.
[06:55] <tonyyarusso> TheMuso: on the other hand, that's also their main use - to get crack more widely distributed for testing
[06:55] <tonyyarusso> catch 22?
[06:57] <TheMuso> Yep.
[06:58] <tonyyarusso> So craigslist....  IBM server from 1999, free.  I may have to get it just for giggles.
[06:59] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: I had that in mind when I was writing my above fear.
[07:04] <LaserJock> I think that perhaps the issue needs to be solved in a different way
[07:04] <LaserJock> people will always be throwing up 3rd party repos
[07:04] <LaserJock> sometimes they are great, sometimes they are a disaster
[07:05] <LaserJock> trying to squash them isn't any good
[07:05] <Fujitsu> What can we do about them?
[07:06] <Fujitsu> PPA makes it a lot easier, though.
[07:06] <LaserJock> not a ton
[07:06] <LaserJock> the packages still have to build
[07:06] <Fujitsu> They don't need to set up anything like falcon, nor do they need web hosting.
[07:06] <LaserJock> PPA just provides a bit more convienience
[07:07] <Fujitsu> They can set it up in seconds.
[07:07] <LaserJock> yeah, but web hosting and apt-ftparchive is pretty trivial
[07:07] <Fujitsu> The barrier to entry is pretty much eliminated.
[07:07] <LaserJock> I think the barrier is in making a decent source package
[07:07] <Fujitsu> They don't have to be decent to build.
[07:07] <LaserJock> well, s/decent/buildable/
[07:08] <LaserJock> I *do* think we're going to have to do more checking on the source of packages when people file bugs
[07:08] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[07:08] <LaserJock> I think there should be some automated way to do that
[07:09] <Fujitsu> Hm, I wonder if it would be nice to have PPA rejecting Ubuntu-looking versions.
[07:09] <Fujitsu> Like, no *ubuntuX
[07:09] <Fujitsu> That way we eliminate confusion.
[07:09] <Fujitsu> And they really shouldn't be using that versioning anyway.
[07:10] <TheMuso> Whats the recommended version for PPA packages?
[07:10] <LaserJock> why not?
[07:10] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: ~ppaX seems to be normal.
[07:10] <LaserJock> I've seen stuff like 0ubuntu0ppa1
[07:10] <Fujitsu> That works too.
[07:11] <Fujitsu> Like we don't have -X on new packages, they shouldn't have ubuntuX
[07:11] <TheMuso> gotcha.
[07:11] <LaserJock> it just seems like the idea that we can limit people to just what's in our repos is a failed model
[07:12] <Fujitsu> I'm not debating that.
[07:12] <Fujitsu> But they shouldn't carry our versioning, or it gets very confusing.
[07:12] <tonyyarusso> I'd recommend something like 0.7.10-0ubuntu0~7.10-ppa1, for best upgradability.
[07:12] <tonyyarusso> not sure if that second hyphen works - make it a period if need be
[07:12] <LaserJock> ugg
[07:12] <LaserJock> try to get people to understand that
[07:12] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: I've used ~ppa1~feisty1 for my backport of Gutsy PPA stuff.
[07:13] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: That will run into issues if you do PPA builds for more than just feisty.
[07:13] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Why?
[07:13] <Fujitsu> I have 0.9.7-0ubuntu1~ppa1 for Gutsy, and 0.9.7-0ubuntu1~ppa1~feisty1 for Feisty.
[07:13] <pwnguin> if it's any consolation, i dont have web hosting, and ive only started reading about packaging in the last two weeks
[07:14] <pwnguin> and ive got a few nice packages. i doubt they're perfect
[07:14] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: actually, hrm
[07:15] <Fujitsu> I think my versioning is fairly sane.
[07:15] <pwnguin> as far as the versioning goes, it would help if dch was smarter
[07:15] <LaserJock> pwnguin: definatly anybody who bothers to hang out in here and learn packaging is quite a bit ahead :-)
[07:15] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: What extra intelligence should it have?
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: Not in the way I initially thought with that, but you'll still have a problem if someone dist-upgrades from say dapper to edgy, still using your PPA, since apt doesn't like alphabetical versioning.
[07:15] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: It's the normal backport versioning...
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: Oh?  Odd.
[07:16] <pwnguin> Fujitsu: at the moment, when i dch --increment, it throws -ubuntu1 on top of ppa
[07:16] <Fujitsu> 0ubuntu1 > 0ubuntu1~ppa1 > 0ubuntu1~ppa1~feisty1 > 0ubuntu1~ppa1~edgy1...
[07:16] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: Ah, I see. Might want to file a bug about that.
[07:16] <Fujitsu> Or maybe wait until we have officially sanctioned versioning.
[07:17] <pwnguin> Also, automatix didnt need ppas to inflict damage on users
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: perhaps it works as long as we have alphabetically sequental development names?  Surely a case like Hoary -> Breezy would have broken with that scheme.
[07:17] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Right. There is a reason we changed.
[07:18] <tonyyarusso> ah
[07:18] <Fujitsu> That would have been part of it, I presume
[07:18] <Fujitsu> Otherwise nothing sorts properly.
[07:18] <tonyyarusso> plus, eventually we'll hit Z ;)
[07:18] <Fujitsu> As all non-alphabetical releases are dead, it should work.
[07:21] <pwnguin> speaking of ppas and motu, whats the odds of getting something from debian experimental into universe?
[07:21] <Fujitsu> There is one change that IMO has to be done: making pkgbinarymangler mangle Maintainer to the PPA owner.
[07:21] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: When we're not frozen, it could probably happen.
[07:21] <Fujitsu> Depending on how experimental it is.
[07:22] <pwnguin> it's a bit unfinished
[07:23] <LaserJock> we get a number of packaging for Main from experimental
[07:23] <LaserJock> it just depends on the package
[07:23] <pwnguin> its a pam module that doesn't seem to set anything you'd need to actually use it
[07:24] <pwnguin> ie registering fingerprints with users
[07:24] <pwnguin> adding to common-auth
[07:24] <pwnguin> yea
[07:44] <LaserJock> man, this seems bright. user seems to have a messed up sources.list on gutsy so cps his old feisty one and tries to install stuff
[07:45] <Hobbsee> hah
[07:45] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[07:45] <LaserJock> now they have an unbootable system
[07:45] <LaserJock> interesting
[07:45] <Fujitsu> Hahaha. Link?
[07:45] <Fujitsu> (so we can laugh at them)
[07:46] <LaserJock> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=546026
[07:46] <Fujitsu> Mine has worked since Edgy, though the xD and Memory Stick bits didn't last time I checked.
[07:47] <LaserJock> this one might be an interesting read as well http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=546467
[07:47] <Fujitsu> `I dont think it would kill Ubuntu if thats what you're wondering.'
[07:48] <pwnguin> i should by an sd card and see how well it works
[07:48] <Hobbsee> the sd card doesnt mount here.  most annoying.
[07:49] <pwnguin> what's dmesg say?
[07:49] <pwnguin> i recall sd support being a fairly new feature
[07:49] <Fujitsu> Automounting seems broken for me at the moment, but if I mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 it works.
[07:49] <pwnguin> mmc
[07:49] <pwnguin> thats the older spec
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Yes, but it's what the kernel normally calls SD/MMC block devices.
[07:50] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: http://rafb.net/p/pOANQa85.html
[07:51] <Hobbsee> oh, here, it's just not mounted.
[07:51] <Hobbsee> yay!
[07:51] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Tried mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1?
[07:51] <Fujitsu> Yeah, that's what I thought.
[07:51] <Hobbsee> just did.  works a charm.
[07:51] <Fujitsu> Automounting seems largely screwed at the moment.
[07:51] <Hobbsee> how useful
[07:52] <Hobbsee> er, would help if i mounted it read/write, i expect.
[07:52] <Fujitsu> Possibly.
[07:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er, how?
[07:53] <Hobbsee> seeing as i'm on the road to asking stupid questions today
[07:53] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Mount with `rw', though that should be default.
[07:53] <Fujitsu> Check the RO tab thing on the card.
[07:55] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the lock is not enabled, i tried with rw, adn i still get permission denied.
[07:55] <Hobbsee> ah.  need sudo, for some reason.
[07:55] <pwnguin> to mount things?
[07:55] <pwnguin> yes
[07:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah, yes, it won't be mounted as your user.
[07:56] <Fujitsu> Someone didn't use Linux before the time of automounting?
[07:56] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i've only been using linux for <3 years, yes.
[07:56] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[07:57] <Hobbsee> but i'd been able to manually mount as root, and be able to read/write the directory as the user
[07:57] <Hobbsee> oh, maybe i needed to chown the dir above
[07:57] <Fujitsu> O_o
[07:57] <pwnguin> or perhaps use -o user
[07:57] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: hehe, I went through the same thing today ;-)
[07:57] <pwnguin> the mount manpage is as long as it is informative
[07:57] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: :)
[07:58] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: this is true
[07:58] <pwnguin> you'll get lost!
[07:58] <LaserJock> I was pretty sure Gnome mounts stuff like usb disks as the user
[07:58] <LaserJock> but maybe not
[07:58] <LaserJock> but in KDE at least today I had to "adjust" some thing
[07:59] <pwnguin> hald/dbus should probably handle it fine in gnome if working correctly
[08:03] <LaserJock> hmm, there isn't any weird freezes going on right? just UVF and FF
[08:03] <Hobbsee> correct
[08:04] <Hobbsee> oh, adn teh "pay Hobbsee $50 for every upload" freeze
[08:04] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: plus the one on your assets if you question the president
[08:05] <Fujitsu> I've mostly been requesting syncs for Debian bugfixes lately :(
[08:05] <LaserJock> that's good too
[08:05] <LaserJock> moquist rewrote a lot of the moodle packaging
[08:05] <LaserJock> and I think it seems good to go
[08:05] <LaserJock> so perhaps I'll upload it and see if it breaks anybody's machine :-)
[08:06] <Fujitsu> Mmm, moodle. Haven't tried that in about 3~4 years.
[08:06] <LaserJock> then we can get the MIR done and get it into Main
[08:07] <LaserJock> moodle has been a bit of a thorn in our side
[08:08] <Fujitsu> Why?
[08:08] <LaserJock> everybody wants it but it's a bugger to get into Main
[08:08] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[08:08] <LaserJock> the security history isn't the best
[08:08] <LaserJock> but it seems upstream has done better lately
[08:09] <LaserJock> so we've rewritten the database handling in the packaging to get rid of the www-config deps, etc.
[08:09] <LaserJock> pretty much had to touch every file in debian/
[08:10] <Fujitsu> Ow.
[08:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm guessing it's not a good sign when all apt does is core-dump
[08:10] <Fujitsu> Probably not.
[08:11] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: especially since it was the first packaging project for the guy who did it, moquist
[08:11] <Fujitsu> Better that than core-dump and eating your filesystem for supper, I guess.
[08:11] <Fujitsu> Hm, not a bad first effort.
[08:11] <LaserJock> talk about getting dumped in the deep end of the pool
[08:11] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[08:11] <pwnguin> most people start with hello world
[08:11] <LaserJock> had to handle mysql and postgresql
[08:12] <LaserJock> make sure debconf was good, etc.
[08:12] <LaserJock> and make sure it'd all stand up to a MIR
[08:14] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: luckly that was in a VM ;-)
[08:14] <Fujitsu> Heh
[11:17] <soren> Fujitsu: The enthusiastic PPA one?
[11:17] <Fujitsu> soren: Yeah.
[11:17] <soren> Fujitsu: Um... Ok. Why?
[11:18] <Fujitsu> People who can't code producting packages.
[11:18] <Fujitsu> *producing
[11:18] <Fujitsu> People who don't know how to.
[11:18] <soren> Ah. Yes, that puzzled me a bit, too.
[11:18] <StevenK> Why should ability to code affect how one can package?
[11:19] <soren> His package is more up-to-date than the one in gutsy, actually :/
[11:19] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Well, he used it as an example as to how he probably wasn't PPA's intended audience.
[11:19] <Amaranth> Doesn't take a programming genius to run dh_make -b
[11:19] <Fujitsu> Is the package totally crackful?
[11:20] <Amaranth> or snag the package from gutsy and drop the debian/ in an updated tree
[11:20] <Fujitsu> I don't like it being so trivial to publish packages for consumption by the rest of the world.
[11:21] <Amaranth> that's sort of what the PPA system is for, no?
[11:21] <Fujitsu> Yes, unfortunately
[11:31] <rgl> hi
[11:32] <soren> hi
[11:38] <geser> morning
[11:46] <rgl> I just upgrade python-dnspython to 1.5.0, did everything till debuild -S, debdiff and interdiff, now what?  I guess I have to upload to REVU?
[11:56] <Fujitsu> rgl: Do you have a freeze exception?
[11:56] <rgl> humm no. Fujitsu
[11:57] <Fujitsu> Well, you need a UVF exception. Does it fix some important bugs, and not introduce no features? Judging by the version number, I'd say not.
[11:58] <rgl> no.  its a new version.
[11:58] <rgl> so, introduces everything *G*
[11:58] <rgl> anyways, under a freeze noone can upload new packages?
[11:59] <alex_mayorga> hello, somebody here can help me port a debian package to ubuntu, maybe point me to the right doc/howto?
[11:59] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: It's unlikely that changes will be necessary.
[11:59] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, OK, so how do I go about it?
[12:00] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: Do you have the source package (.dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz)?
[12:00] <alex_mayorga> first time I do a .deb, I've done a couple of .rpm and Solaris packages, but nothing fancy
[12:00] <alex_mayorga> yep
[12:01] <Fujitsu> Is the package actually in Debian?
[12:02] <alex_mayorga> yep in pool suposedly
[12:03] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: What is its name? It's probably in Ubuntu too, then...
[12:03] <rgl> so, should I upload to REVU?
[12:03] <Fujitsu> rgl: There's no point, as it probably won't happen for gutsy.
[12:03] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, maven2
[12:04] <rgl> Fujitsu, I don't care if it uploaded to gutsy.  I just want it in the next version.
[12:04] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: Ah, so it's only new today, so won't be in Ubuntu. run `dpkg-source -x whatever.dsc', cd into the directory, and run `dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot', and hope it works.
[12:05] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, I'd like to do it as an experiment on the personal packages thingie on LAunchpad
[12:05] <Fujitsu> rgl: It'll probably be synced from Debian early in Hardy, so there's very little point.
[12:05] <Amaranth> !info maven2
[12:06] <ubotu> Package maven2 does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
[12:06] <Amaranth> !info maven2 gutsy
[12:06] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: Well, you'll have to add a changelog entry (dch -i), debuild -S -sa, and upload to PPA using the PPA instructions.
[12:06] <Fujitsu> Amaranth: It has been in Debian less than 24 hours.
[12:06] <ubotu> Package maven2 does not exist in gutsy
[12:06] <Amaranth> ah, i see
[12:07] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, can you hold my hand or point me to a HOWTO
[12:08] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: Not sure of any howtos, and I'm rather busy with school stuff at the moment.
[12:08] <alex_mayorga> anyone?
[12:10] <derjohn> hi, as I still miss linux-image-2.6.22-.*-xen in the amd64 repo of gutsy, I want to build the kernel myself. Usually I use make-kpkg for the job, but i read severa times about the "new building infrastructure" - do we now build kernel debs differntly (i.e. dpkg-buildpackage or such) ?
[12:15] <alex_mayorga> why when installing build-essentials on Gutsy, it asks for a CD? I netinstalled :(
[12:16] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: Remove the cdrom line from /etc/apt/sources.list, and apt-get update.
[12:18] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, thanks that did the trick
[12:19] <Fujitsu> np
[12:24] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, are there rules for ubuntu java related packages like in debian?
[12:31] <alex_mayorga> when I'm repackaging a debian package, do I update the changelog ? do I become the maintaner of the package?
[12:39] <pygi> alex_mayorga, 1) why repackage 2) changelog always has to be updated c) no, you dont. If it's universe/multiverse then motu is maintainer, otherwise core-dev
[12:41] <alex_mayorga> pygi, I'd like to have this http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/maven2/ on gutsy
[12:42] <alex_mayorga> and I'd also like to step in as the maintainer for it, if possible
[12:42] <pygi> alex_mayorga, for gutsy, not possible
[12:42] <pygi> alex_mayorga, it'll be auto-synced for gutsy+1
[12:42] <pygi> alex_mayorga, ubuntu doesn't have set maintainers
[12:42] <alex_mayorga> ic
[12:43] <pygi> maintainer is either motu or core-dev team
[12:43] <alex_mayorga> so there's nothing for me to do, but wait?
[12:43] <pygi> kindof =)
[12:44] <alex_mayorga> do I mark bug 137521 as fixed upstream then?
[12:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137521 in ubuntu "New package maven-2.0.7" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137521
[12:45] <pygi> for feisty-backports it's invalid as said
[12:46] <pygi> for gutsy it's not possible to get it in anymore
[12:46] <pygi> so possibly gutsy-backports one day, but only possible
[12:46] <alex_mayorga> can I stick it into my PPA then?
[12:54] <pkern> Where's the Ubuntu NEW queue located? (As in "an overview of the packages in it")
[12:55] <pygi> alex_mayorga, sure
[12:56] <geser> pkern: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
[12:56] <alex_mayorga> I'll give that a try
[12:56] <alex_mayorga> thanks
[12:57] <pygi> geser, you beat me to it, damn :P
[12:57] <pygi> alex_mayorga, yw, if you have anymore questions, poke
[12:58] <alex_mayorga> pygi, how can I advocate for maven2 to be put in that queue? sorry if I'm being obnoxious, but I'm completely new to the MOTU suff
[12:58] <pygi> alex_mayorga, for gutsy, you can't :)
[12:58] <alex_mayorga> and I really need that package to carry on my work/projects, so any help is greatly appreciated
[12:59] <pygi> alex_mayorga, put it in ppa, it'll be built, but for gutsy you cannot put it in anymore
[12:59] <Fujitsu> pygi: NPFU exceptions aren't too difficult to find.
[12:59] <alex_mayorga> and for the upcoming release?
[01:00] <pygi> you should have thought of that earlier
[01:00] <Fujitsu> pygi: It only appeared in Debian a few hours agto.
[01:00] <Fujitsu> *ago
[01:00] <pygi> alex_mayorga, as I said, it'll be synced from debian
[01:00] <pygi> Fujitsu, yup, I know
[01:00] <alex_mayorga> no way around? :(
[01:01] <pygi> there's this NPFU exception that Fujitsu mentioned, but ...
[01:01] <alex_mayorga> not even if I mail Mark? :)
[01:02] <alex_mayorga> nothing depends on it so it should be safe
[01:02] <pygi> that's not the procedure
[01:02] <pygi> alex_mayorga, you can try filing a NPFU exception, Fujitsu can tell you more about it
[01:02] <Fujitsu> Can I? If you say so.
[01:02] <alex_mayorga> show me the path and I'll follow it
[01:03] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, I'm all ears
[01:03] <Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-c9d177822a71b90ec5fb703ed0d0f30eeb8fc1db
[01:04] <alex_mayorga> thanks
[01:06] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, when it mentions to link to the source package it means this http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/maven2/ ?
[01:06] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: That will probably do, yeah.
[01:07] <alex_mayorga> From what I can tell, there are already two filed bugs that request for that package, do I file another one anyway?
[01:07] <Fujitsu> alex_mayorga: You could turn one into a NPFUe request, and mark the other as a duplicate.
[01:08] <alex_mayorga> Let me work that out
[01:11] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, do I rename the bug so it has NPFU on the title?
[01:11] <pkern> "NPFU"?
[01:11] <pkern> Newer Package From Unstable?
[01:12] <pkern> s/Newer/New/ probably
[01:12] <alex_mayorga> pkern, thanks
[01:14] <Fujitsu> New Package Freeze Universe.
[01:15] <alex_mayorga> ???
[01:16] <pygi> alex_mayorga, calm :)
[01:16] <pygi> over and out from me :)
[01:17] <alex_mayorga> pygi, would do, it's 6 am here and I didn't catch much sleep trying to figure how to package Maven2 for Ubuntu :)
[01:18] <pygi> alex_mayorga, I didn't sleep for a couple of days, so? :)
[01:18] <pygi> so shhh, lunch :)
[01:18] <alex_mayorga> hehe, been a while for me
[01:23] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, so is your title the one?
[01:23] <alex_mayorga> any tag that's needed?
[01:28] <alex_mayorga> anyone else familiar with the process?
[01:34] <geser> alex_mayorga: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-c9d177822a71b90ec5fb703ed0d0f30eeb8fc1db
[01:40] <MarcP> Hi all
[01:40] <MarcP> it's the first time I use motu and I need some help
[01:40] <alex_mayorga> geser, is bug 102037 appropriate ?
[01:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102037 in ubuntu "[New Package Freeze Upstream]  maven2-2.0.7" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102037
[01:41] <MarcP> I have uploaded a package (ario) using dput but I don't see it on this page : http://revu.tauware.de/index.py
[01:42] <MarcP> and I also have this error when I try to recover my password : "No REVU account for marc.pavot@gmail.com exists yet."
[01:42] <MarcP> Do you know why?
[01:48] <alex_mayorga> Fujitsu, geser and everyone, thanks for your time and patience
[01:51] <alex_mayorga> see you all around
[03:12] <pkern> Fujitsu: Thanks.
[03:12] <pkern> Fujitsu: Makes more sense of course. (It was a question, I didn't know it.)
[03:15] <soren> MarcP: You need to have a Launchpad account, assign a GPG key to it and have it synced to the REVU system.
[03:15] <soren> MarcP: The last bit needs to be done by one of the REVU admins
[03:16] <MarcP> soren: I have created a launchpad account, and assigned a GPG key to it
[03:16] <MarcP> and my upload with dput worked ('Successfully uploaded packages.')
[03:16] <soren> MarcP: Cool. Then you need to poke one of the REVU admins. I always forget who they are.
[03:16] <pkern> MarcP: That only tells you that the FTP upload was successful.
[03:16] <MarcP> ok
[03:17] <MarcP> Is a there a cron or sthg for sync to the REVU system?
[03:17] <pkern> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU for the admins.
[03:18] <MarcP> If I just wait for some hours/days, will it work by itself?
[03:19] <pkern> "If you don't get a reply within 24 hours, the keyring is resynced nightly via cron, so you will be able to upload after this happens. It is a good idea to GetYourKeySigned, but it is not a requirement for using REVU."
[03:19] <pkern> Whenever nightly is... probably European...
[03:20] <soren> pkern: I think right now, it's European, yes.
[03:20] <MarcP> soren, pkern : Thanks for your help. I think I will just wait until tomorrow. (I'm in Europe)
[03:20] <soren> pkern: It used to be in UTC-4, which must be in eastern U.S.
[03:21] <pkern> soren: Do you know how it determines the email address? Is it the one specified in the first upload?
[03:21] <soren> pkern: From the changes files.
[03:21] <soren> pkern: Er.. ".changes file".
[03:22] <soren> pkern: It has a Changed-by field. I would suppose that's what it uses.
[03:22] <pkern> REVU states "Please note, all times on this page are in UTC+4.". So probably the cron job is also put in the night of that timezone, most probably.
[03:22] <siretart> the cron job runs every 5 mins
[03:22] <pkern> siretart: The GPG import one?
[03:22] <siretart> admins of revu are sistpoty and myself
[03:22] <siretart> ah, the gpg import takes nearly an hour on the new hardware, so we run it approx at midnight
[03:23] <MarcP> midnight where?
[03:23] <siretart> and the UTC+4 is bogus now, we run at MET after the move. the page hasn't been updated yet
[03:23] <soren> siretart: ?!?!?! Wha... An hour?!?
[03:23] <soren> siretart: MET?
[03:23] <pkern> siretart: You only get the GPG key ids and need to fetch it from the keyserver?
[03:23] <siretart> soren: about. the fetch-launchpad-keys deperately needs improvments
[03:24] <siretart> pkern: yes. patches for the script are welcome
[03:24] <pkern> siretart: The Trac is down. (Or moved FWIW.)
[03:24] <siretart> soren: middle european time
[03:24] <soren> siretart: Ah. That's "CET" for the rest of us :)
[03:24] <siretart> revu is no longer maintained in trac nor svn. we are using bzr and launchpad now
[03:24] <siretart> soren: oh, I'm sorry :)
[03:24] <siretart> timezone is Europe/Berlin, to be precise
[03:25] <pkern> People are more used to CET...
[03:25] <siretart> since the server is now hosted at the university of erlangen
[03:25] <siretart> ok. will keep that in mind
[03:25] <pkern> (Or UTC+1... because Europe/Berlin is currently CEST, i.e. UTF+2)
[03:25] <pkern> s/UTF/UTC/ heh. ):
[03:26] <soren> siretart: :)
[03:28] <siretart> MarcP: what did you upload?
[03:28] <siretart> ario abviously
[03:28] <soren> siretart: I don't know if gpg reuses open connections to the keyserver, but if so, you could just pass it all the key id's on a single command line.
[03:28] <MarcP> ario
[03:28] <MarcP> ario_0.2-0ubuntu1
[03:28] <soren> siretart: Oh, I see there's >500 members in the group... Hm.. Well, a couple of hundred at a time might help.
[03:29] <pkern> soren: Or only fetch those not yet present in the ring.
[03:29] <siretart> soren: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk/annotate/sistpoty%40ubuntu.com-20070829220324-rdhjyq95xtjgk2jd?file_id=fetchlaunchpadkeys.py-20060622101814-d24e46fc40cf5420
[03:29] <soren> pkern: Well... We might want it to update the current ones to get new uid's and such.
[03:29] <siretart> patches to that script are welcome. branch is at https://code.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk
[03:30] <soren> siretart: Yes, I was just looking at it :)
[03:30] <pkern> Me too.
[03:30] <pkern> soren: If it matches on the UIDs... if not, there's no need to update.
[03:31] <pkern> soren: And a single --refresh-keys would help, but that could take ages too.
[03:31] <soren> pkern: And how would we know if it matches on the uid's?
[03:31] <pkern> soren: But one recv-keys per key id probably regenerates the trust-db every time.
[03:31] <siretart> --refresh-keys would update all signatures. we are not interested in those
[03:32] <siretart> ideally, the script would get a list of keys already fetched, and blacklist them from downloading
[03:32] <pkern> siretart: You do the same now.
[03:32] <pkern> siretart: As he said, only if the UIDs are not used, but if the check is only if the key is present in the ring.
[03:32] <siretart> pkern: yes. it they don't hurt. at least they didn't in the past
[03:32] <pkern> If so, there is really no need to update the keys.
[03:32] <MarcP> Sorry for all my stupid questions but : will I need to upload my package again when my GPG key will be synced or not?
[03:33] <siretart> oh, wait, we need to check if there are new uids. because people might want to use them in revu
[03:33] <siretart> MarcP: no, it is in the rejected queue and will be reprocessed manually when the next sync of the keyring has finished
[03:33] <siretart> MarcP: this is however a manuall process
[03:34] <pkern> We need signatures anyway as we need the self-signatures.
[03:34] <MarcP> siretart, ok thanks
[03:35] <pkern> "import-clean" could help
[03:35] <pkern> No, --import-options import-minimal
[03:35] <soren> Hm.. gpg doesn't reuse the connection when fetching more than one key at a time.
[03:36] <soren> siretart: Oh, here's a thought.
[03:37] <soren> siretart: Just have the script fetch the key ids.
[03:37] <soren> siretart: ..and tell the verification script that it should autofetch the key if it's in the list of key ids.
[03:38] <pkern> That causes delays.
[03:38] <soren> auto-key-retreive ftw.
[03:38] <pkern> Multiple GPG instances could be spawned at the same time writing to the keyring.
[03:38] <soren> pkern: Only if it's not already there.
[03:38] <soren> pkern: Yes, gpg will handle that just fine. A couple of seconds delay is not a problem.
[03:39] <siretart> soren: key autoretrieve is not an option. we want the keyring to expand only in a controlled way
[03:40] <soren> siretart: Right. That's why it should check if it's in the list of accepted keys.
[03:40] <pkern> And keys are currently not removed neither.
[03:40] <soren> siretart: "accepted keys" are the ones registered on launchpad to members of u-u-c.
[03:40] <siretart> pkern: well, atm at each sync the key is recreated completely. which is the main reason for the long runtime
[03:41] <pkern> siretart: Where's the delete? It's just that all keys are currently refetched?
[03:44] <siretart> pkern: in the script which calls that one
[03:44] <siretart> revu-key, IIRC
[03:46] <pkern> siretart: Right.
[03:50] <pkern> Haha. Never ever set trustdb to /dev/null
[03:50] <pkern> It then tries to create lock files in /dev
[03:50] <siretart> hrhr
[03:51] <pkern> It sucks that the script is not keyboard interruptible...
[03:52] <siretart> indeed
[03:52] <siretart> I tend to do a 'ps auxf' in another shell and kill the 'right' process
[03:52] <pkern> ditto
[03:53] <pkern> The bottleneck is neither CPU nor bandwidth... what a pity.
[03:53] <siretart> the new machine is a rather old sparc hardware
[03:54] <siretart> so CPU might be an issue here. CPU is at 100% on that hardware
[03:54] <pkern> The fetch keys did terminate after 1m26s
[03:54] <pkern> With ~no CPU usage.
[03:54] <siretart> on your PC. not on my sparc :)
[03:54] <pkern> Keyring at ~4.6M
[03:54] <siretart> on the PC at serverpronto, the sync took about 2-3 mins. right
[03:54] <pkern> On my server, yes. Athlon 64 3700+ or something.
[03:55] <siretart> cpu             : TI UltraSparc IIi (Sabre)
[03:55] <siretart> Cpu0Bogo        : 599.97
[03:55] <siretart> MMU Type        : Spitfire
[03:55] <siretart> :)
[03:55] <pkern> Funny to say "new machine". ;o)
[03:56] <ivoks> siretart: nice one :)
[03:56] <siretart> ivoks: :)
[03:56] <siretart> but I have another sparc ready to be installed. the 'new new' one will be an ultra 30
[03:57] <pkern> (Apart of the Debian porter machines... *cough* But at max. I shelled on them once.)
[04:01] <siretart> sparc is nice hardware.
[04:02] <siretart> the machine used to be an old server of the department I work for
[04:04] <pkern> 4m51 with trustdb checks
[04:07] <pkern> siretart: I get a decrease in time from 4m51 to 1m23 just with --no-auto-check-trustdb --trust-model always
[04:07] <pkern> (reproducible as far as I could see)
[04:07] <pkern> (in gpgopts)
[04:07] <siretart> wow. will try it here
[04:09] <pkern> But you probably should pass --trust-model always when you check against the keyring, or do a seperate --check-trustdb. I would opt for the former, because the trust-model gives you no benefits.
[04:09] <pkern> dscverify already does "--always-trust"
[04:10] <pkern> So you should be safe.
[04:10] <pkern> (Looking at the code it wouldn't find the trustdb anyway, lacking a gpg.conf)
[04:17] <ScottK2> I got eclispe to build in my pbuilder.  Uploading now and we'll see how it does on the buildd's....
[04:17] <siretart> hmm.. the deployment ist funny here. need to talk with sistpoty about this
[04:17] <siretart> pkern: thanks in any case for that!
[04:20] <ScottK2> man-di: I couldn't get the auto regen to work, so in the end I just manually edited control and rules (my theory being that if at some point in the future it regenerates, it'll be right and if it doesn't, it'll work too.
[04:20] <ScottK2> )
[04:21] <pkern> siretart: np (:
[04:22] <StevenK> Does anyone have a .raw file I can test gimp-ufraw with?
[04:25] <StevenK> Actually, the fact that I can verify that it loads the plugin is enough for me.
[05:05] <ScottK2> man-di: I had forgotten that we have LPIA now which I understand is an arch that Debian doesn't have.  How do you suggest I deal with /build/buildd/eclipse-3.2.2/source-tree/plugins/org.eclipse.rcp.source.linux.gtk.lpia/src not found.
[05:28] <siretart> zul: you just ack'ed the cryptsetup UVF exception request. may I upload it now?
[05:30] <siretart> pkern: real    12m32.640s
[05:30] <siretart> pkern: with your suggestion in. thats much better
[05:32] <pkern> siretart: Nice. (:
[05:40] <JDahl> I know this is not a support channel,  but anyway:  supposedly python-mode in emacs22 has been fixed:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-mode/+bug/134308,  but it still doesn't work for me.  Does it work for the rest of you?  (Also,  why doesn't emacs22 automatically load font-lock mode?)
[05:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134308 in python-mode "python-mode does not work" [Medium,Fix released] 
[05:43] <ScottK2> siretart: Yes.  I just set it to confirmed.  He does bugs mostly via e-mail and rarely does the status change.
[05:48] <siretart> ah. ok
[05:49] <JDahl> actually,  I missed another bug-report that suggest to remove and purge python-mode,  so that emacs22 falls back on its own python-mode.  Sorry about the noise
[06:01] <Adri2000> ScottK2: if you're available, bug #138352 is looking for a second ack :)
[06:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138352 in filezilla "[UVFe request]  filezilla 3.0.0-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138352
[06:04] <ScottK2> Adri2000: There's no install log.  You've installed and tested this, right?
[06:06] <Adri2000> ScottK2: of course, installed and tested successfully
[06:07] <ScottK2> OK.  Just checking.
[06:09] <ScottK2> Adri2000: Acked and approved.
[06:11] <Adri2000> thanks, uploading now
[06:12] <ScottK2> No problem.  Gotta go reboot.
[06:24] <ScottK2> If there are any motus out there that care about eclipse or Java and have ppc, eclipse looks to be finally building on other archs, but FTBFS on PPC for what looks like to my minimally educated eyes to be PPC specific.
[06:30] <Zombie> Has FreeDroid 0.10.2 been backported?
[07:03] <Ng> are there any recommended docs for packaging up really simple python things?
[07:42] <man-di> ScottK: mainly its only changing patches/eclipse-add-ppc64-sparc64-s390-s390x.dpatch accordingly
[07:42] <man-di> ScottK: that should be it, hopefully
[07:43] <bszmyd> Guys, I want to get a new upstream is there anything else I need to do other than create a bug, attach the diffstat and changes diff to it, subscribe it to the motu-uvf team, and upload the sources.changes file to REVU?
[07:43] <bszmyd> err "upstream version of a package"
[08:13] <asisak> Heya MOTUs!
[08:21] <pochu> Hey asisak!
[08:24] <asisak> Hi pochu!
[08:24] <geser> Hi asisak
[11:00] <norsetto> ScottK: you sure about the 2 acks for bug 134552? I don't mind .....
[11:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134552 in yappy "Please merge yappy (1.8-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134552
[11:28] <ScottK> norsetto: Thanks.
[11:30] <ScottK> norsetto: Did you see my poker-network troubles?
[11:30] <ScottK> I think the predepends is not, perhaps, the way to do.
[11:31] <ScottK> do/go
[11:35] <norsetto> ScottK: I'm not sure I understand the problem.
[11:36] <ScottK> norsetto: I didn't look at it in detail, but the package (pre-inst, I think) was trying to do mysql db config stuff before mysql anything was installed.
[11:36] <ScottK> It didn't go well.
[11:37] <norsetto> ScottK: but why would that be a pre-depend problem!?
[11:37] <ScottK> I'm guess that it was getting done before any of the depenencies were installed.
[11:38] <ScottK> I've got to go chase after my 4 year old, so we can discuss more later.
[11:38] <norsetto> ScottK: sure
[11:49] <norsetto> scottK: we better talk about this tomorrow, I'm really too tired to do anything but sleep right now :-)
[12:04] <tonyyarusso> Any of you folks know how to get free computer hardware from corporations when it ends its useful lifecycle for them and get pulled from rotation?
[12:04] <zul> check google?
[12:05] <ajmitch> tonyyarusso: know someone inside & talk to them nicely?
[12:05] <tonyyarusso> ajmitch: hmm, probably.
[12:05] <ajmitch> get one
[12:05] <zul> but nothing in life is free
[12:08] <tonyyarusso> zul: seems debatable :P
[12:18] <jussi01> tonyyarusso: all you do is ring said company in question, say you are a recycling company and you will remove their old pc's for only xx...
[12:18] <jussi01> :P
[12:18] <tonyyarusso> jussi01: heh, true
[12:18] <jussi01> well go get a business name...
[12:18] <jussi01> :P
[12:19] <tonyyarusso> jussi01: You do make a decent point though, especially since our state legislature _just_ passes some new regulations cracking down on electronic waste
[12:19] <jussi01> :) whee do you live tonyyarusso?
[12:19] <tonyyarusso> jussi01: Minnesota, USA
[12:19] <jussi01> ahhh...
[12:20] <jussi01> anyway... bedtime...
[12:20] <jussi01> nite all