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| Banana | hey folks. First of all kudos for the LTSP5 packages. | 12:40 |
|---|---|---|
| RichEd | Banana: kudos go to ogra & sbalneave mainly :) | 12:41 |
| Banana | I have managed to get everything working on top of Xen amd64 which was kind of a nightmare | 12:42 |
| Banana | i have a small issue | 12:42 |
| Banana | i can't seem to find it in the bugzilla so i figured i asked here. | 12:43 |
| Banana | when i shutdown a client, the / gets umounted too soon | 12:43 |
| Banana | and the halt script cannot be executed. | 12:43 |
| Banana | there are I/O errors on nbd-client which complains about a closed socket | 12:44 |
| Banana | hence the machine hangs just before calling halt | 12:44 |
| Banana | (non xen here, on a real diskless client). | 12:45 |
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| Banana | uhhh i thikn i found the cause | 12:48 |
| Banana | the S60umountroot in runlevel 0 is trying to remount / readonly. | 12:49 |
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| Banana | i'll try to deactivate it. | 12:49 |
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| ogra | Banana, thats feisty ? | 01:29 |
| Banana | no gutsy | 01:30 |
| Banana | i found the culprit | 01:30 |
| Banana | the script sendsigs which sends killall -15/-9 to everyone | 01:30 |
| Banana | it kills nbd-client early in the shutdown process | 01:30 |
| Banana | there is a file /var/run/sendsigs.omit | 01:31 |
| Banana | i'm trying to add pidof nbd-client in it to see | 01:31 |
| ogra | well, bug 126444 was supposed to be fixed | 01:31 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 126444 in ltsp "[gutsy-tribe2] <ctrl><alt><del> on tty0 fails to shut down ltsp thin clients" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126444 | 01:31 |
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| Banana | i'll go check the bugreport; thanks for the pointer. | 01:32 |
| ogra | /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc6.d/ and /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc0.d/ should only have the shutdown/reboot scripts | 01:33 |
| ogra | at least for all ltsp-build-client runs after version 5.0.25 | 01:33 |
| Banana | hooo | 01:35 |
| ogra | (note that wont be the case if you built your client chroot with an older version) | 01:35 |
| Banana | that might be why. | 01:35 |
| Banana | i built the image early in gutsy. | 01:35 |
| ogra | yeah | 01:35 |
| Banana | and then chroot in it and dist upgraded | 01:35 |
| ogra | you should rebuild with the recent version :) | 01:36 |
| ogra | there are somw steps ltsp-biild-client performs that we cant do on upgrades | 01:36 |
| Banana | yes its understandable. | 01:36 |
| Banana | thanks for the hint. | 01:37 |
| ogra | also note, if you dist upgrade the chroot, you need to run ltsp-update-image | 01:39 |
| ogra | (the image is whats served now, the chroot is only for maintenance) | 01:39 |
| Banana | yes i saw | 01:41 |
| Banana | the speed up is amazing | 01:41 |
| Banana | bravo :) | 01:41 |
| Banana | (for the boot process) | 01:41 |
| ogra | :) | 01:41 |
| ogra | it has its drawbacks | 01:42 |
| ogra | i.e. you have to rebuild the image after changes | 01:42 |
| ogra | :) | 01:42 |
| Banana | yes but it seems to make better use of the bandwidth than nfsroot | 01:42 |
| ogra | yeah | 01:43 |
| ogra | its a lot faster and smaller | 01:43 |
| Banana | which matters to me as I have ~50 - 75 diskless pc with raging student working on it at all time. | 01:43 |
| ogra | it puts some extra load on the client cpu for unsquashing though... but thats only affecting the boot | 01:43 |
| Banana | and only 100mb connection | 01:43 |
| ogra | oh, yeah there it surely matters | 01:44 |
| Banana | i also tested with a xen domU thin client (living on the same machine as the ltsp server) | 01:44 |
| Banana | works allmost like a charm. | 01:45 |
| Banana | (mainly xen problems) | 01:45 |
| ogra | cool | 01:45 |
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| sbalneav | Morning all | 03:03 |
| sbalneav | ogra: Hey, how's it going? | 03:03 |
| sbalneav | I did some testing on the weekend. Localdevs seems to be working great! Thanks for the upload. | 03:04 |
| ogra | pulling my hair out over ltsp-update-image | 03:06 |
| ogra | that inetd/port code is such a bad mess | 03:07 |
| sbalneav | yeah, I improved it a little, but it's kind of a sticky problem. | 03:08 |
| sbalneav | What can I help with? | 03:08 |
| ogra | we have two places that need to be identical all the time (PXE and inetd) | 03:08 |
| ogra | beyond that there are x special cases that need to be taken into account | 03:09 |
| sbalneav | Oh, by the way, couple of minor bugs squashed on the weekend, most important one related to X_RAMPERC. ulimit -v isn't there under dash's shell, so changed it to ulimit -m | 03:09 |
| ogra | we also need to make sure that we always exit 0 ... unless there is no image | 03:09 |
| ogra | ah, thats good | 03:10 |
| sbalneav | Hey, something else I was wondering. | 03:10 |
| ogra | yeah, i found that mkfifo isnt in the d-i environment :/ | 03:10 |
| ogra | have to use mknod ... grrr | 03:10 |
| sbalneav | I did some testing, and on all the boxes I tested, an X_RAMPERC=80 makes sure nothing bad happens, kills firefox on insane web pages, etc. I was wondering, should we think about setting a default X_RAMPERC in ltsp_config? Might help to elimintate some of those "my workstation locks up for no apparent reason" type bug reports? | 03:12 |
| ogra | could go into the initramfs code that checks for low ram | 03:12 |
| sbalneav | heh ram < 512m then X_RAMPERC=80? | 03:13 |
| ogra | lol | 03:13 |
| sbalneav | I tested that insane website that Jim K posted | 03:13 |
| sbalneav | it allocates, like 512 megs of pixmaps! | 03:14 |
| ogra | well, i was planning to release with an empty lts.conf so it should be set elsewhere | 03:14 |
| ogra | (read we'll need an override var for that ) | 03:14 |
| ogra | NO_RAM_LIMIT | 03:14 |
| ogra | or so | 03:14 |
| ogra | or X_RAMPERC=0 disables it | 03:15 |
| sbalneav | Well, or X_RAMPERC = 100? | 03:15 |
| sbalneav | RAMPERC's such a bad name. | 03:15 |
| sbalneav | What else can we call it? | 03:15 |
| ogra | so people not wanting it can switch it off | 03:15 |
| sbalneav | sure = 0 | 03:15 |
| ogra | MAX_USED_RAM ? | 03:15 |
| ogra | MAX_RAM ? | 03:15 |
| ogra | RAMLIMIT | 03:16 |
| sbalneav | X_MAX_RAM? | 03:16 |
| sbalneav | X_RAMLIMIT | 03:16 |
| ogra | well, you set all ram | 03:16 |
| sbalneav | I like that | 03:16 |
| ogra | not only X's | 03:16 |
| sbalneav | No, just X's | 03:16 |
| sbalneav | it's done in the ldm | 03:16 |
| sbalneav | so it won't affect other things. | 03:16 |
| ogra | doesnt ulimit set kernel params ? | 03:17 |
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| sbalneav | Not as far as I know. Just that process and all subprocesses | 03:17 |
| sbalneav | so we set it in the ldm screen script, it should set for that process, and children. | 03:18 |
| ogra | ah, ok | 03:18 |
| ogra | well, just because we're root | 03:18 |
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| ogra | sbalneav, cant we just read /proc/meminfo and automtically limit to the ramsize ? | 03:22 |
| ogra | or better ramsize + swapsize | 03:22 |
| ogra | seems more elegant somehow | 03:22 |
| ogra | and have a switch tghat only en or disables that fucntion | 03:23 |
| sbalneav | That's what we do | 03:29 |
| sbalneav | The question is just WHERE you set the limit | 03:29 |
| sbalneav | if you set it too close to the max, some things don't like it. If you set it too low, you're not making full use of the ws's resrources. | 03:30 |
| sbalneav | we add up free ram and free swap. And though some (long) testing this weekend, I found 80 makes the best sense. | 03:31 |
| ogra | leave a 10% buffer ? | 03:31 |
| ogra | 80 doesnt make sense on a client with 256M and 512M nbd swap in a tmpfs :) | 03:31 |
| ogra | i'd go with a certain percentage below max | 03:32 |
| === mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra] by ChanServ | ||
| === ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | ||
| ogra | not friday anymore :) | 03:33 |
| === mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra] by ogra | ||
| sbalneav | Well, what I was coming across was that, if I set it much above 85, mozilla would crash, and the desktop would return, but the mouse and keyboard would be frozen. If, on the server, I pkilled the user, the desktop would recyle, but the mouse and keyboard would still be latched. At 80, I found everything worked as expected. | 03:33 |
| sbalneav | ok, maybe we can do some math, and set some sensible values. I'll put some thought into it today. Should we put the code in ltsp_config? That'd be the simplest. | 03:34 |
| ogra | at with what physical ram size ? | 03:34 |
| ogra | s/at/at 80/ | 03:34 |
| sbalneav | yeah, physical ram size | 03:34 |
| sbalneav | i.e. if you've got 512 ram, probably 95 is fine | 03:34 |
| ogra | only ? | 03:35 |
| ogra | why not more ? | 03:35 |
| sbalneav | 98 | 03:35 |
| sbalneav | I'd have to play around with some values. | 03:35 |
| ogra | how much phys ram did you have on the machine you tested 80 on ? | 03:35 |
| sbalneav | 256 | 03:35 |
| ogra | urgh | 03:35 |
| sbalneav | 32 meg swap | 03:35 |
| ogra | thats a huge waste | 03:35 |
| ogra | we probably need 20M for everything !X | 03:36 |
| ogra | so you would have 150M idling there | 03:36 |
| sbalneav | 256 + 32 * .8 = 230 meg | 03:37 |
| ogra | 80 is percentage ? | 03:37 |
| sbalneav | yeah | 03:37 |
| === ogra thought you talk about MB | ||
| sbalneav | yeah, percentage | 03:37 |
| === ogra slaps forehead | ||
| sbalneav | ramperc :) | 03:37 |
| sbalneav | ram percentage :) | 03:37 |
| ogra | sorry, better ignore me today | 03:38 |
| sbalneav | lol, NP | 03:38 |
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| === ogra thought ramperc == ram per client | ||
| ogra | :) | 03:38 |
| ogra | ok, then 80 is perfect indeed := | 03:38 |
| ogra | :) | 03:38 |
| sbalneav | Anyway, merge from me now, so we get the default behavior of it not being set at all, and then I'll fool around and try to set a sane value based on ram in the client, swap size, etc. | 03:39 |
| ogra | did you make a change the last hour ? | 03:39 |
| sbalneav | no | 03:39 |
| ogra | i just merged this mornoing | 03:39 |
| ogra | *morning | 03:39 |
| sbalneav | Effecient as always :) | 03:39 |
| sbalneav | They're not paying you enough :) | 03:39 |
| ogra | i just want -update-image half way sane before i package it | 03:40 |
| ogra | else the package would be up already | 03:40 |
| sbalneav | ok, I'll quit bending your ear, and let you get to it :) | 03:40 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 04:27 |
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| LaserJock | hi ogra | 08:19 |
| ogra | hey | 08:19 |
| LaserJock | ogra: how was your weekend? | 08:20 |
| ogra | busy | 08:20 |
| LaserJock | manage to get that upload done? | 08:21 |
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| bdoin | ogra: latest GCompris release is 40MB smaller, I am sure you will appreciate ;) | 08:53 |
| LaserJock | wow | 08:53 |
| LaserJock | how'd you do that? | 08:53 |
| ogra | \o/ | 08:53 |
| === ogra dances | ||
| bdoin | we re-encoded all voices in a lower bitrate | 08:54 |
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| LaserJock | ahhh | 08:54 |
| LaserJock | well done | 08:54 |
| ogra | yay | 08:54 |
| bdoin | take care, in the latest release there are several changes that impacts packaging | 08:56 |
| LaserJock | oh man, so 40MB comes at a price? :-) | 08:57 |
| bdoin | you can see it this way but it's unrellated | 08:58 |
| ogra | well, we went fine with the debian packages the recent time ... | 08:58 |
| bdoin | we integrated some libraries in order to ease packaging and switched to gstreamer instead of GTK | 08:59 |
| ogra | gstreamer ++ | 08:59 |
| ogra | very good | 08:59 |
| bdoin | oops sorry, gstreamer instead of SDL_Mixer | 09:00 |
| ogra | indeed :) | 09:00 |
| bdoin | do you have cooperations with the olpc team on some subject ? | 09:01 |
| ogra | only very loosely | 09:02 |
| sbalneav | gstreamer = ++++good. | 09:03 |
| sbalneav | \o/ for bdoin | 09:03 |
| bdoin | thanks | 09:03 |
| bdoin | at some point we could imagine that the sugar user interface is also a good choice for regular children oriented desktop | 09:04 |
| sbalneav | ogra: too late for a UVFe for something that big, eh? | 09:04 |
| ogra | yeah | 09:05 |
| ogra | its on the addon CD anyway | 09:05 |
| ogra | all we'd gain would be some MB in the live squashfs | 09:05 |
| sbalneav | bdoin: gstreamer's good, as it plugs in very nicely with the remote sound stuff on ltsp. | 09:05 |
| bdoin | what's a UVFe ? | 09:05 |
| ogra | !uvf | 09:05 |
| ubotu | uvf is Upstream Version Freeze. For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6 | 09:05 |
| sbalneav | Upstream Version Freeze exception. | 09:05 |
| ogra | sbalneav, lazier is faster :P | 09:06 |
| sbalneav | heh, there a way to see what's ubotu's list of factoids is? | 09:06 |
| sbalneav | !factoids | 09:06 |
| ubotu | I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots | 09:06 |
| ogra | "all-knowing infobot" | 09:06 |
| ogra | tsk | 09:06 |
| ogra | ubotu, whats the color of my socks ? | 09:07 |
| ogra | bah | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | supposedly I'm a factoid editor | 09:07 |
| sbalneav | Ubotu needs a "seen " function. | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | I could whip up a nice response | 09:07 |
| ogra | and a socks function | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | "Edubuntu colors, of course" would be a good one | 09:08 |
| ogra | a force feedback socks function that also pulls them :) | 09:08 |
| LaserJock | haha | 09:08 |
| sbalneav | ogra: if they're white, they're clean, if they're green, time to change 'em :) | 09:08 |
| ogra | lol | 09:08 |
| LaserJock | lol, such wisdom | 09:08 |
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| stgraber | :) | 09:19 |
| stgraber | ogra: saw my comment about italc ? (posted on Saturday) | 09:20 |
| ogra | that you got it running ? | 09:20 |
| stgraber | yep | 09:21 |
| stgraber | except things like shutdown/reboot of course | 09:21 |
| ogra | yeah | 09:21 |
| stgraber | and I still have some problems with the demo mode | 09:21 |
| ogra | but that sounds good | 09:21 |
| ogra | we'll need to get it building without libssl dependency though | 09:21 |
| stgraber | yes, you basically run one ica (the user daemon) for each user, then make it listen on a different port (default+client number in my case) | 09:22 |
| stgraber | it should also be easy to do a launcher for the teacher tool so it grabs the list of connected clients and generate the XML | 09:22 |
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| clarkkent93 | looking for help....installed edubuntu but missing education programs | 10:43 |
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| clarkkent93 | can anybody help? | 10:47 |
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| monteslu | clarkkent93, "gksudo synaptic" | 10:56 |
| monteslu | just install whatever you want from there | 10:57 |
| clarkkent93 | hmmm...i've tried to go to add/remove programs and it shows the stuff but says that it can't install due to either computer type or something | 10:57 |
| clarkkent93 | should what you wrote help? | 10:57 |
| monteslu | not sure, but give it a shot, and make sure to have it update availabe packages | 11:01 |
| clarkkent93 | ok..i'll wait until i get a lan cable this afternoon...didn't realize that i lost it when i moved. | 11:06 |
| clarkkent93 | what should i be looking for in that gksudo synaptic? | 11:07 |
| clarkkent93 | i'm completely new to linux and edubuntu...i imagine you got that from my questions | 11:10 |
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| monteslu | clarkkent93, I'm actually on fedora right now, but I believe you can browse the different sections for software you want to install, and there are some educational categories | 11:13 |
| clarkkent93 | shoot...i didn't see them | 11:13 |
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| cliebow | clarkkent93, got it figgered out? | 11:27 |
| clarkkent93 | no | 11:27 |
| clarkkent93 | i'm an idiot | 11:27 |
| clarkkent93 | i used the gksudo synaptic command but don't see the packages | 11:28 |
| cliebow | i think there was a second add-on cd with lots of ed apps..but you can wing it with synaptic | 11:28 |
| clarkkent93 | do i need to be hooked up to the internet to use it? | 11:28 |
| cliebow | system-administration->synaptic | 11:28 |
| cliebow | yes pretty much\ | 11:29 |
| cliebow | to download | 11:29 |
| clarkkent93 | maybe i'll wait until later to ask the question then.... | 11:29 |
| clarkkent93 | i did notice in the add/remove programs that it had the education programs listed but gave some reason why it couldn't be installed. | 11:29 |
| cliebow | ill try to keep an eye out for you.. | 11:30 |
| cliebow | for what good it may do you 8~) | 11:30 |
| cliebow | you need a network connection for sure | 11:30 |
| cliebow | i see there are meta packages for edubuntu-addon-science and edubuntu-addon-young | 11:32 |
| cliebow | etc etc | 11:32 |
| cliebow | i am in gutsy so mine wont match yourn | 11:32 |
| clarkkent93 | says doesn't support my computer type...x86 because it doesn't meet special hardware requirements or vendor doesn't support computer type | 11:32 |
| cliebow | what is your machine??anything special? | 11:34 |
| clarkkent93 | nope...amd athlon...homebuilt system | 11:35 |
| clarkkent93 | small hd..only 13gb...imagine that! hehe...there's still about 9 gigs left though | 11:36 |
| clarkkent93 | 256 mg ram | 11:36 |
| cliebow | shouyld be just fine.. | 11:36 |
| clarkkent93 | thought so...weird...maybe it will work out fine once i get the network connection going | 11:37 |
| cliebow | get hooked up.. give it a whirl..usually helpful folks on #edubuntu | 11:37 |
| clarkkent93 | once i hook up the lan...anything special i need to do to set it up? | 11:37 |
| clarkkent93 | or should it be automatic? | 11:37 |
| cliebow | maybe run update-manager first | 11:37 |
| cliebow | get latest of everything..then choose packages | 11:38 |
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| clarkkent93 | thaks cliebow! i'll be back on later after i do the updates and let you know how it goes | 11:44 |
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