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mrevellhowdy everyone06:29
mrevellI have an exciting opportunity to help promote an event on Thursday :)06:34
=== beuno tries not to look like he's everywhere
beunohey mrevell!06:39
beunowhat would that be?06:40
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mrevellhey beuno, I'm sure I saw someone with a very similar nick in another channel just now.06:43
mrevellbeuno: It's the PPA and Ubuntu Packaging 101 session. I just wanted to get some advice from the Ubuntu marketing team to see where you think I should spread the word.06:43
beunomrevell, freenode is crowded...06:44
mrevellbeuno: (it was you, in ubuntu-fridge) :-)06:44
beunomrevell, the UWN would seem ideal, but since it's in 2 days, doesn't seem likely06:44
mrevellbeuno: Yeah, I'll add a report on it to UWN, along with links to logs and a request for people to tell us if they'd value a repeat.06:45
beunomrevell, I'm thinking we could send an isolated email to the ubuntu-news ML, but I'm not sure if it's that Ubuntu-related06:45
mrevellbeuno: It's all about Ubuntu packaging, so it is fairly Ubuntu related, I think. Your call, obviously.06:46
beunooh, right, ubuntu packaging basics seems very much related06:46
beunothe -motu ML is an obvious target too06:47
mrevellWho runs the ubuntu-news ML?06:47
beunomrevell, take a guess  :D06:47
=== mrevell promises to buy beuno a drink at UDS...
beunoI wish I could go...  :(06:48
mrevellOh, shame you can't. I'm sure we'll meet at some point, though,06:48
mrevellSo, if I write something up, should I send it to you or direct to the list?06:49
beunomrevell, send it to the list and ping me, I'll pass it through the filter06:49
beunomrevell, welcome :D06:50
mrevellbeuno: done!07:02
beunomrevell, hasn't apeared on the filter, did you send it to ubuntu-news?07:05
mrevellsent it to ubuntu-news@lists.ubuntu.com07:05
beunomrevell, got it, it's approved07:06
mrevellbeuno: I've just had a message saying it's waiting approval07:06
mrevellbeuno: oh, great, thanks!07:07
beunomrevell, at your service  :D07:08
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mrevellbeuno: Do you know how many people are on that list?07:13
beunomrevell, 5967 members total07:13
mrevellbeuno: Rocking :)07:13
beunoyeap yeap, a lot of people subscribed to that07:14
mrevellThe mail has just hit my Gmail account. Cool. Thanks again for your help07:17
beunomrevell, my pleasure07:18
=== beuno tries to hide the fact he does all this for the beer
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=== jenda waves to beuno and mrevell-dinner
beunohey jenda!09:00
beunohow's it going?09:02
jendabeuno: bad :)09:02
jendabeuno: exam tomorrow and a mouth full of cold sores09:03
beunojenda, I hear beer is good for that09:03
jendabeuno: for the exam? definitely. Don't you worry about me ;)09:04
jendaHighschool-class party tomorrow night, lawyer party on Thursday, pub-session on friday, Ubuntu-book meetup on saturday (in a pub)...09:04
beunojenda, you sure know how to have fun...09:05
jendabeuno: oh no, that's work09:06
jendabeuno: I'm going hiking next week - that's fun :)09:06
jendano beer there, though :(09:06
beunojenda, where are you going?  Ukraine?09:06
jendabeuno: just Slovakia.09:07
beunojenda, cool, hoe long?09:08
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jendabeuno: either a week or just 3 days09:15
jendabeuno: depending on whether I go straight away, or if I'm too busy and hop on board on Wednesday.09:15
beunojenda, good to see that you're keeping busy09:17
jendabeuno: oh, is it ;)09:17
jendabeuno: I'm still saving up for my trip to Argentina :D09:17
jendabeuno: a little bit of a setback being the fact that I'll have to pay about $1000 in taxes for that goddamn translation :(09:18
beunojenda, great to hear, I'll be more then happy to take a vacation when you come visit09:18
beuno1k for taxes???  really?09:19
jendaI don't know the exact figure yet.09:19
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fl33tingtimehello,is this the best place to ask for a new ubuntu-promotion related project/09:37
fl33tingtimeanyone there?09:39
jendafl33tingtime: yes, it's a good place. The mailing list would likely be a better place, though.09:40
fl33tingtimejenda: than, but emails are becoming fishier and phishier by the day09:41
fl33tingtimecould you spare me a minute if you are someone with some authority ...kind of?09:41
fl33tingtimeif not authority, integrity will also do :-)09:42
mrevellhi jenda09:42
jendafl33tingtime: I'm sorry, but I am currently extremely busy. Just write it up in here and someone will notice it and answer soon enough :)09:42
jendaIn fact, I might, because I suck at concentration :D09:42
fl33tingtimesee , Mark17 found nothign wrong or troublesome with the #1 bug assigned to Mark shuttleworth09:46
fl33tingtimethis was at #ubuntu09:46
fl33tingtimeand then i read the whole long list of replies09:46
fl33tingtimeand maybe then this might interest: http://savannah.gnu.org/task/?702709:47
fl33tingtimeif it is not already done09:47
juliuxjenda, if you come to the next cebit in hannover/germany i have original cz beer for you,909:48
fl33tingtimewould be happy if you gave me a confirmation of having read anythign on that page...09:48
beunofl33tingtime, I don't understand how those are related09:48
fl33tingtimebeuno - if a web2.0 portal shows you how to install ubuntu and various packages09:49
fl33tingtimewithout actually touching linux at all09:49
fl33tingtimeyou get people who are extremely confident doing their first install09:49
fl33tingtimewhen they have rehearsed all the possible failure scenarios09:49
beunofl33tingtime, right, I understand, what is your proposal then?09:50
fl33tingtimeone a *fake* ubuntu installer available on-demand09:50
fl33tingtimeno download, no install, practice practice practice tillallyour irelessd reiver problems get fixed09:50
fl33tingtimeon a fake system!09:50
beunoisn't that what a live cd is for?09:51
fl33tingtimefake-ubuntu.com is better ;-)09:51
fl33tingtimepeople dont know how to change the boot sequence09:51
fl33tingtimeto cdrom09:51
fl33tingtimeground facts09:51
beunofl33tingtime, the problem is that you can't know the persons hardware via a web browser09:52
fl33tingtimelast mile problems not known to developers - only to embarassed marketers like me09:52
dergringoIs anyone at the openexpo in zurich (ch) ?09:52
fl33tingtimeyou dont even try to09:52
fl33tingtimeyou present a comprehensive set of possibilities09:52
beunofl33tingtime, as in "possible problems"?09:52
fl33tingtimejust pick up the hardware compatibility lists from your real ubuntu knowledgebase09:53
fl33tingtimeand fake them on web2.009:53
fl33tingtimeno a single real disk is touched09:53
fl33tingtimeanywhere in the world09:53
beunofl33tingtime, I understand the advantages, I just can't understand how it would work09:53
fl33tingtimeeveryone trains over and over on the trainubuntu site09:53
beunoyou can't know what will actually happen when the user puts in the cdrom to install09:54
beunoso you have no real way of making them go through the experience beforehan09:54
fl33tingtimelike google docs does, thinkfreeoffice does, zoho crm does, zoho vitrual office does09:54
fl33tingtimeand m$ live does09:54
fl33tingtimethey all are web ibterface to real apps09:55
beunofl33tingtime, then you would propose a working Ubuntu copy, not the installer, right?09:55
fl33tingtimesure each system is different,09:55
fl33tingtimebut if you list all the system posibilities, you have a real nice fake09:55
fl33tingtimeto train on09:55
fl33tingtimeand the data needed is all there with you in the real knowledgebase, bugtracker etc09:56
beunoright, that sounds much better, although it's a tremendouse amount of work to do every 6 months, maybe it could be done just for LTS09:56
fl33tingtimebtw, call me ft is fl33tingtime is long ;-)09:56
beunoyou will need a lot of man power to get that done09:57
fl33tingtimenot as much as you think09:57
beunofl33tingtime, I don't mind, tab button es my friend09:57
fl33tingtimea script coudl do many things 09:57
fl33tingtimeok :-)09:57
beunofl33tingtime, LTS == Long Term Support  (Dapper Drake 6.06 at the moment)09:57
fl33tingtimesee ubotu09:57
fl33tingtimeits a cool hack09:57
fl33tingtime"graphical ubotu"09:58
beunofl33tingtime, well, now you just need to find a way to actually do it  :D09:58
beunomailing list is probably the best way to recruit people for ir09:58
beunosum it up nicely, maybe even set up a wiki page under wiki.ubuntu.com09:58
dergringoyou want to build up a web based ubuntu?09:59
fl33tingtimebeuno .... :-)09:59
fl33tingtimebuild a web based installation traniner for ubuntu with no real ubuntu behind it anywhere09:59
fl33tingtimedoes not even need to be run on a LAMP stack, fwiw!10:00
beunofl33tingtime, again, I don't think an installer is the way to go, a working system would10:00
beunoevery instalation is either *the same* or *dramatically different*10:00
dergringoA working system would be a LOT of hard work ;)10:01
fl33tingtimesigma(dramatically diff) --> big list-> all ready , on-demand10:01
fl33tingtimei know10:01
beunodergringo, yes it would  :D10:01
fl33tingtimewould help other distros as well ;-)10:01
fl33tingtimeso its not onyl your ubuntu team that will help out10:02
fl33tingtimeand there are L O T S of web2.0 coders out there with itching palms, i assure10:02
jendajuliux: when is it?10:02
juliuxjenda, in march next year10:02
juliuxjenda, but i am living now in hannover10:03
jendajuliux: I might.10:03
dergringoWell yes... I would help but you need a few hundreds of people :D10:03
fl33tingtimebeuno: ill send a mail to mailing list10:03
beunofl33tingtime, go for it!10:03
fl33tingtimesince it seems worth discussing after all...10:03
fl33tingtimedo ou know of a decent free webhost for lamp ?10:04
beunofl33tingtime, not really, no10:04
fl33tingtimea few ads is ok10:04
fl33tingtimei'm not so rich , yknow ;-) ;-) 10:05
fl33tingtimesomwehere to show a prototype....10:05
jendafl33tingtime: I certainly recommend fake-ubuntu over fakubuntu :D10:05
beunowell, it depends how much press you want...   :p10:06
fl33tingtimetrainubuntu....  10:06
fl33tingtimethe power of collective thought! ;-)10:06
jendanobuntu :)10:07
fl33tingtimeODubuntu - On demand ubuntu10:07
dergringomybuntu (to keep align web20) ;910:09
fl33tingtimebtw, will this affect anybody's jobs anywhere?10:09
fl33tingtimelike people make money out of installing linux....10:09
fl33tingtimeso if users can train themselves....10:09
fl33tingtimethese guys dont knwo what to do10:09
fl33tingtimefor an earning10:10
fl33tingtimeis that a large number of people?10:10
fl33tingtimeher in India, it is just fine10:10
fl33tingtimepeople always want quick easy money10:10
fl33tingtimeso they'll b ehappy10:10
dergringoI think this is comparable to an online tutorial10:10
dergringoPersonal teaching will always be better ;)10:11
fl33tingtimewhich is why this last thought10:11
fl33tingtimetldp, linux questions, linuxjournal, ubuntu support10:11
fl33tingtimeall *could* (n * maybe) be affected10:11
fl33tingtimeor they could integrate with iframes :-)10:12
fl33tingtimehack upon hack!10:12
fl33tingtimeso ad revenure for them stays10:12
fl33tingtimeand ubuntu gets a back up trainer10:12
fl33tingtimeon demand10:13
fl33tingtimeout of every 100 installs, my guesstimate is that about 40 will go smoothly because of this trainer10:13
fl33tingtimethe other 60 will .... add to the dramatically dofferent list ... hehe10:13
fl33tingtimetipping point economics... is that the word....10:14
fl33tingtimethis chat is logged right..?10:15
beunofl33tingtime, yes it is10:15
fl33tingtimefor reference in email to mailinglist10:15
fl33tingtimebtw, offtopic, any of you live in SAfrica?10:16
fl33tingtimeor rather where are you.... im pretty new to Linux so i dont know most of the basic IRC hacks10:17
dergringofl33tingtime: Well first of all it's a question of manpower (real manpower) I don't think that it's a quick one to dev an *whole* operating system in javascript10:17
fl33tingtimeGUIS mostly - not whole OS10:18
fl33tingtimestart with install trainer10:18
fl33tingtimedont do teh full thing10:18
fl33tingtimein six months10:18
fl33tingtimelinux kernel is still evolving and changing10:18
fl33tingtimelicenses are changing10:18
fl33tingtimeupgrade, add, incemrement.... long term10:18
fl33tingtimeyuck, naim sux10:19
fl33tingtimeah and there is swfmill and there is gnash for the spoilt audiences10:20
fl33tingtimewho want it in *flash*10:20
fl33tingtimeseen cornelius and eyeos?10:20
fl33tingtimeready to use10:20
dergringoSee what they can do... They are not able to simulate the linux kernel... 10:21
fl33tingtime100+ GUI widget libs ... several GPL 2+ "at ur option"10:21
fl33tingtimekernel not to be simulated today10:21
fl33tingtimetoday only installer10:21
dergringoAn installer for what hardware?10:22
fl33tingtimethat i sthe moreimportant one10:22
fl33tingtimeubuntu database of hardware (in)compatibilities10:22
fl33tingtimeas input10:22
dergringoWell the hardware abstraction is done via the kernel... and there we are10:23
fl33tingtimeto a mighty hack like launchpad  10:23
fl33tingtimeand output is the gui10:23
fl33tingtimefor that test case10:23
dergringoThe gui is not that much the problem10:23
fl33tingtime can i write this on some wiki page10:23
fl33tingtimeand point you to there....10:24
fl33tingtimerafb or sialbot or other pastebin...10:25
fl33tingtimeis best?10:25
beunofl33tingtime, use wiki.ubuntu.com10:25
fl33tingtimelink to log of this discussion....10:26
dergringoIf every distro helps to get a minmal kernel simulation (in *WEB*) then it's a quick thing. But this is hard one...10:26
=== beuno can't see an installer actually reproducing the users actual experience in *any* way
fl33tingtime"at least I tried"10:30
fl33tingtimeno no not that bad actually, it *will* work10:30
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