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TheMusoScottK: What needs ppc testing?12:59
TheMusoHey folks.12:59
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TheMusoAny core devs around?01:45
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ajmitchTheMuso: depends01:50
TheMusoajmitch: heh. If you or anybody else is not busy, I'd *really* appreciae it if you wouldn't mind doing a no change rebuild upload for gnome-speech, to be built against the new espeak that was uploaded, and has an API change?01:52
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ajmitchTheMuso: sorry, just heading out now, will be back in an hour or so :)02:01
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TheMusoajmitch: np, as I said, only if you aren't busy.02:17
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TheMusoHey bddebian03:00
bddebianHello TheMuso03:01
bddebianHmm, who took openser off of Lucas's FTBFS list?03:04
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bddebianDang, where is everyone tonight?03:26
bddebianWhy do we have octave2.1-forge and octave2.9-forge03:34
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ScottKTheMuso: There's a propsed elcipse fix for ppc and lpia attached to (I think) the lpia ftbfs bug.04:56
StevenKScottK: Hah, I say. My desk *is* messy.04:58
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StevenKScottK: Does that also remove the Depends on ecj-bootstrap-gcj?05:03
bddebianAh two of my favorite gentlemen :-)05:03
StevenKSomeone noticed me, guess it's time to bail.05:04
StevenKOh, that's a good sign in the debian/changelog.05:08
StevenK  * Made this junk work again, reluctantly remain maintainer (Closes: #423244)05:08
bddebianheh, nice one05:09
bddebianWhich package is that?05:09
bddebianAh are you working on the FTBFS list?05:10
StevenKWhich has this gem:05:10
StevenK% ls -lh | tr -s ' ' | cut -d\  -f5,8 | grep gz05:10
StevenK11M ikvm_0.34.0.2-1.diff.gz05:10
StevenK6.0M ikvm_0.34.0.2.orig.tar.gz05:10
bddebianHah, even better05:10
StevenKActually, I'm looking at ikvm, so I can pull it off the NBS list.05:11
StevenKI'm seeing if it builds, so I can pester ScottK about a UVFe05:11
bddebianLucas's list?05:11
StevenKNope, pitti's05:11
bddebianGah, too many damn lists :-)05:11
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StevenKLaserJock: Thanks for posting the interview. :-)05:13
LaserJockno problem, thanks for answering the questions05:14
StevenKNow to just get back my lost respect.05:14
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TheMusoScottK: Ok thanks heaps. Will look in a bit.05:16
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StevenK"Do the following questions, from the following pages: Chapter 18, w179"05:17
StevenKAnd page 179 is in chapter 4, sigh05:17
bddebianGrr, damnit05:19
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TheMusoScottK: How much disk space does eclipse require to build?06:22
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asisakGood morning!07:18
asisakAt least European one. :)07:22
asisakGood $TOD LaserJock07:23
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asisakHey Whoopie!07:34
Whoopieasisak: Hi!07:34
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LaserJockis there anything special that needs to be done to run a .jar ?07:43
asisakjava -jar file.jar07:44
asisakOr what do you mean?07:44
LaserJockwell, that's a start :-)07:44
StevenKLaserJock: Usually, the .jar file will contain one or more .class files, and you need to throw the class name to java, along with the jar file.07:46
asisakUnless the application creator was clever enough to provide necessary startup information in the jar :)07:46
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Chrisit's part of coreutils07:51
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ajmitchthat was a useful comment07:55
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LaserJockhi ajmitch07:57
asisakWhy does REVU think that http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=223 does not need more love?07:58
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kagouGood Morning :)08:01
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ajmitchhello LaserJock08:11
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=== jussi01 wonders why we dont use a newer version of csound in gutsy?
jussi01!info csound gutsy08:34
ubotucsound: powerful and versatile sound synthesis software. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:4.23f13-1.1 (gutsy), package size 3242 kB, installed size 8008 kB (Only available for arm armeb armel hppa hurd-i386 i386 kfreebsd-i386 m32r m68k mips mipsel powerpc ppc64 s390 s390x sh3 sh3eb sh4 sh4eb sparc)08:34
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ajmitchhi dholbach09:25
dholbachGOOD MORNING09:25
dholbachhey ajmitch09:25
jussi01is it that good a morning dholbach?09:25
dholbachjussi01: YEAH :-)09:25
dholbachhow are y'all doing? :)09:26
jussi01Im doing good. and you?09:26
sorenI'm out of coffee, but apart from that everything is good.09:26
jussi01(obvious one)09:26
dholbachhehe :)09:26
dholbachI'm fine thanks09:27
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sorenruns, even.09:27
=== jussi01 starts to get excited by: http://linuxmce.com/
jussi01very cool.09:29
StevenKLinux MCE is .... interesting.09:29
jussi01StevenK: what is that supposed to mean...09:30
StevenKjussi01: That I think it's crap, but that everyone else is entitled to their own opinion.09:30
jussi01StevenK: ok, fair enough. can you back that up with reason?09:30
StevenKjussi01: Certainly. It doesn't support TV out sanely enough, it takes about 15 minutes to actually boot, and it wants to be in complete control of your network.09:31
jussi01StevenK: ahhh, see thats why I actually mentioned it here. I was hoping someone would tell me all the "bad stuff". :)09:32
tonyyarussoStevenK: control of your network?  how?09:33
StevenKtonyyarusso: It runs dhcpd, with no way of turning it off, and sets itself as the default gateway.09:34
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=== proppy hugs dholbach
=== proppy hugs ScottK
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=== dholbach hugs proppy back :)
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proppyScottK: dholbach: I opened a separate bug for poker-network mysql installation issue11:11
dholbachproppy: ok11:11
proppyShould we continue the discution here ?11:11
proppyBug #13883611:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13883611:11
dholbachbetter to have it in the bug report11:11
dholbachso everybody can follow up there11:11
proppyI also commented11:12
proppythe initial bug report11:12
proppywhich was about poker2d crashin at startup11:12
proppyCan we get the fix about the bug Released ?11:12
proppyonce we have made the necessary verification11:13
dholbachcan't we fix both bugs in one upload?11:13
proppyWhile I'm working on the second issue11:13
proppydunno, but the bugs are not really related11:13
proppyI was sure I will be able to fix a python crash problem11:13
proppyI'm not really in the packaging thing11:13
proppyso I'm not sure I'll be able to fix the mysql problem in time11:14
proppybut at least I can work on it11:14
proppyAnd you're last comment is very inspiring :)11:14
proppycan you forward it to the new bug11:16
proppyor do you mind if I update the description with it11:16
dholbachyeah, just update it, that'S fine11:16
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proppyInstalling a gutsy chroot and try to reproduce the bug11:22
proppyMy guess is that the issue is the following:11:22
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proppyas you've highlighted it the package does not depend upon mysql11:23
proppyIt's only suggested11:23
proppythe fact is that you don't need mysql, If you answer "no" to debconf question11:23
proppybut you need it if you answer "yes"11:23
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proppydholbach: ScottK: Bug #138836 updated12:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13883612:51
dholbachproppy: so with a depends on dbconfig-common it works fine?12:52
proppyI don't understand cause the depend seems here12:53
dholbachmaybe it needs to be a pre-depends?12:54
proppyletme update it12:54
proppyit > the bug report12:54
proppywhat is pre-depends ?12:55
dholbachsuper, thanks12:55
dholbacha package that needs to be installed before the installation of the other package is attempted12:55
proppyI will try Pre-depends12:57
proppyI'm not able to reproduce ScottK error anymore12:57
proppyI've to reset my chroot12:58
proppyIt would be nice to be able to fork bug reproducing environment of someone else12:59
geserThe Pre-Depends are already configured before the package gets installed. Depends are installed but not necessarily configured.01:02
tonyyarussoWhat would be an example of a time when pre-depends would be required?01:04
mok0If the preinstall script need some special binary01:04
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Nafallodholbach: something more making the upload worthful?01:07
proppymok0: so this one http://paste.ubuntu.com/118/01:07
proppyneeds dbconfig-common as Pre-depends01:08
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proppybug #138836 updated feel free to share your knowledge :)01:10
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13883601:10
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dholbachNafallo: hm?01:12
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Nafallo13:23 #ubuntu-motu: < \sh> dholbach, ping bug 138225 is already in gajim bzr  ubuntu tree...nafallo is just waiting for upload01:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138225 in gajim "clean install of gutsy and gajim throws a gnomekeyring.DeniedError" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13822501:19
Nafallo14:52 #ubuntu-motu: < dholbach> \sh: do you know what Nafallo is waiting for?01:19
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dholbachNafallo: oh, I thought it was good enough to go already01:19
\shNafallo, what could be more worthful?01:20
\shNafallo, give me a hint, I'll have a look and try to fix ;)01:20
\shNafallo, this cpu utilization problem is out of the way, I think it's a local problem on the reporters side...01:21
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\shjono, congrats to have whiprush on board...01:23
\shjono & dholbach better to say01:23
jono\sh:  :)01:23
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\shNafallo, bug 138528 updated with some more infos...when it's updated *wait*01:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138528 in gajim "gajim systray menu status changes have no effect" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13852801:26
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Nafallo\sh: sorry, right now I have no time. we had a fibre break between two DCs last night...01:28
Nafallo\sh: so I did not get much sleep01:28
\shNafallo, I know how you feel :)01:28
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proppynorsetto: hi01:35
norsettoproppy: hey proppy01:35
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proppynorsetto: Nice work on poker-network01:42
proppynorsetto: I've separated the issue in two bug reports as you suggested01:42
norsettoproppy: ok, thx01:42
proppynorsetto: #bug 13883601:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13883601:44
norsettoproppy: thats good, because I might not have the time to look into that this week, and next week I'm out01:46
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ScottKTheMuso: Dunno how much space eclipse actually takes to build.  The tarball is 150mb.01:48
slytherinNeed some help. Does every patch in debian/patches/ directory get applied automatically when I do apt-get source packagename?01:48
proppyI think, we only need to add a Pre-depends as dholbach suggested, I'm trying it right know01:48
proppybut re-building gutsy chroot again and again take a long time01:48
geserslytherin: no, that's usually done by a target in debian/rules01:49
ScottKproppy: If you read the Debian policy statements on pre-depends they seem to work pretty hard to get you to avoid it.01:51
proppylet me google this01:51
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ScottKproppy: Would it be enough to test for the existence of /usr/share/dbconfig-common/dpkg/postrm.mysql and then not try to call it if it doesn't exist?01:53
ScottKdholbach: Do you have a moment for a PM?01:54
ScottKGood morning all.01:54
dholbachScottK: sure01:54
norsettoscottK: hi scott01:54
proppyScottK: maybe I'm trying to re-set up an environment to reproduce the bug right know01:55
slytheringeser: Ok. I am trying to debug what the issue is with nautilus-sendto package. It doesn't show pidgin as option. There seems to be more than one problem.01:55
proppyScottK: as you pasted it in your comments, pre install Can't open /usr/share/dbconfig-common/dpkg/config.mysql either01:56
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ScottKproppy: I'm not a mysql expert, so I just copy/paste that stuff.02:00
proppyScottK: I'm not a packaging export either :)02:05
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ScottKI'll go ask in #ubuntu-server if someone can help us.02:06
proppyI don't really know what the usual pratices are when depending on on a database installation02:08
proppybecause the database can be on another host,02:08
proppyso you can't really hard-depends on mysql02:08
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dholbachcan somebody check why it was not possible to upload a new dkms package to revu? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=189)02:08
proppyI believe that's why the debian maintainer of this package use a lot of debconf dbconfig thing to ask the user about mysql configuration02:09
Hobbseedholbach: hm?02:09
Hobbseedholbach: there are 2 versions later than that URL02:10
Hobbseedholbach: is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=228 not the correct one?02:10
dholbachah ok, that's the good one02:10
dholbachthanks Hobbsee02:10
Hobbseedholbach: no problem.  youd' not selected the bottom version of the fiel02:11
slytherinWhere can I suggest changes to Build:Depends of a package? This is related to nautilus-sendto02:13
ScottKslytherin: What specificall (I just updated that one last week)?02:14
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slytherinScottK: I saw the changelog. The pidgin plugin is not built. Looks like you also need to add libpurple-dev to build-depends. Also the patch for replacing gaim_debug-info does not seem to be applied.02:15
ScottKI see.02:16
ScottKDo you know the changes that need to be made?02:16
slytherinScottK: I just tried manual compilation of nautilus-sendto. It need pidgin-dev as well as libpurple-dev.02:16
ScottKThe thing that is the most likely to get results is to make a revised package, file a bug in LP, attach a debdiff, and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (that package is in Main).02:17
ScottKIf you don't know enough to do that, then file a bug that explains what you know.02:18
ScottKI was only interested in it because I was killing of an rdepends on sylpheed-claws so we could remove it from the archives.02:18
slytherinScottK: I am in office. No GPG key. Also I have never used cdbs. :-( I will add information to existing bug which was reopened.02:18
cassidyHobbsee: we did 2 UVF request. One for Gabble .11 and the second for .1402:20
Hobbseeah, right.02:21
cassidywe never requested .13 which was the sucking version (our fault)02:22
ScottKLooking at the changelog diff...02:23
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ScottKIt looks like the Sept 5 changelog entries relate to the vcard regression.  Is that right?02:24
ScottKcassidy: ^^^02:25
cassidyseems so02:25
slytherinScottK: If using cdbs for building package, when are patches in debian/patches actually applied?02:25
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ScottKslytherin: Not sure what you mean.02:25
cassidybut other patchs are harmless, really02:26
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slytherinScottK: Leave it for now.02:26
ScottKslytherin: OK.02:26
Hobbseebigon: there are questions for you on the  MC ML sometime, btw02:27
ScottKcassidy: From my perspective as a person that has to approve the UVFe, you had a bad release with a significant regression and so now you've fixed the regression plus other stuff.02:27
ScottKI don't know you or your project, I just know this one instance.02:28
slytherinScottK: I have added info to bug 13494502:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134945 in nautilus-sendto "nautilus sendto + pidgin" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13494502:28
ScottKSo I'd feel more comfortable with just fixing the regression and avoiding the other stuff.02:28
ScottKslytherin: That's probably the best you can do unless you can prepare a debdiff yourself.02:29
cassidyI understand, but I think it's extra useless work to patch current pkg just to remove some trivial patchs02:29
ScottKI can understand that perspective.02:30
slytherinScottK: Will do in few days. :-)02:30
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HobbseeScottK: but on balance, how many people use telepathy* at all and how many use it for the latest featuers, vs the most stable version?02:32
ScottKWe are ~ a month from release.  I think it's really time to focus on getting stuff as functional as possible.02:33
\shwhen is lucas doing a new universe archive rebuild?02:33
HobbseeScottK: true, but in the cases where we do want the latest crack, no matter the stability...02:34
Hobbseeit's more a question of whether this is one or not02:34
BugMaN_awaydholbach: bug 138083, you are the maintainer, can i make new package version directly from debian version (http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome-specimen) ?02:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138083 in gnome-specimen "[Gutsy]  Gnome-specimen new upstream version available 0.3.1" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13808302:34
Hobbseeof course, it would be nice, if we didnt have to choose, but...02:35
\shoh descisions what to include just before release are quite nice...you have a bug fixed with new upstream release, and 10 bugs opened with new upstream release...(regarding wine hehe)02:36
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Hobbsee\sh: urg.  what's the situation with that/02:37
ScottKzul: moring02:37
Hobbseei thought we decided a couple of releases ago that wine really shouldnt be in ubuntu02:37
Hobbseehiya zul!02:37
zulhey Hobbsee02:38
StevenKHobbsee: We did?02:38
HobbseeStevenK: we certainly talked about it.02:38
\shHobbsee, well, I had the situation during breezy or dapper I think...I had to decide if we take new crack from wine upstream or stay with a little broken wine02:38
StevenKThen again, I can't talk, I'm running the winehq .deb's02:38
Hobbsee\sh: personally, i'd always like the latest crack w.r.t wine.02:38
\shHobbsee, wine is in ubuntu and will stay :)02:38
ScottKcassidy: The short version I think is that motu-uvf has 5 people and you only need to convince 2.  I'm probably not the person most likely to be converted.02:39
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Hobbsee\sh: i'm assuming you'll stick wine into a ppa, and keep updating it?02:39
ScottKHobbsee: Sill no UVFe filed for the wine package on REVU.02:39
StevenKcassidy: motu-uvf is always open for bribes. Certain people only, of course.02:39
\shHobbsee, nope...hopefully scott ritchie is going to be a motu and take over all this crap..02:39
\shScottK, forget about wine on revu...02:40
HobbseeScottK: i'm happy to blanket UVFe it, if someone wants to file an exception.02:40
Hobbsee\sh: heh, i thought you were02:40
=== StevenK idly wonders about convincing Hobbsee and ScottK about ikvm.
\shHobbsee, I did take over the wine reponsibility because I was the idiot who took sabdfls calls to include winehq wine ;)02:41
=== ScottK idly wonders what ikvm is?
Hobbsee\sh: ahhh.  " You Poor Bastard"02:41
StevenKScottK: Java -> .NET02:41
\shHobbsee, I never expected, that wine was sooo alpha these days..well, now I'm 2 years older and 2 years more wise ,-)02:41
Hobbsee\sh: yeah, i've always found it a little too tempramental02:42
cassidyScottK: as Hobbsee said, most of telepathy users are interested in it for testing and it would be a shame if we'll have to reject all vcard related bugs from Ubuntu users because we know they are using a crap version02:42
StevenKAnd let's face it, wine is now two years more vintage...02:42
=== StevenK ducks.
Hobbseecassidy: are you guys going to fix all the bugs that are recorded against telepathy*?02:42
Hobbseecassidy: up until release?02:42
\shStevenK, high noon .. we will meet ,-)02:42
ScottKcassidy: Then do a patch.02:42
StevenK\sh: :-P02:42
ScottKcassidy: Threatening to ignore bugs from Ubuntu users is not the way to convince me.02:43
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StevenKOr me, for that matter.02:43
ScottKcassidy: FYI, StevenK was one of the other people you had a shot at convincing.02:43
\shbut I could do a fast wine 0.9.44 upgrade and file an UVF E-report just to assign all the bugs to you02:43
cassidyHobbsee: we are doing your best but I can't promise anything02:44
Hobbseecassidy: of course, the quality of the packages that you end up giving us directly corresponds to the user opinion of the stability of your software02:44
Hobbseeit works both wyas there02:45
Hobbseeas in, if you say to us "please take the latest version", and it has major regressions, then that's going to have an impact on your userbase's opinions about it02:45
cassidyScottK: I'm not threatening anyone. I just want to avoid to have to deal with useless bug reports02:45
cassidyHobbsee: we *never* asked you to ship .13 (the broken version)...02:46
ScottKcassidy: You released it.02:46
Hobbseecassidy: apologies, i dont follow telepathy terribly closely, so dont know the specifics02:47
\shwhat about backporting the patches from .14 to .13 and fixing the bugs instead of adding new bugs with .14?02:47
=== Hobbsee wonders if .13 came due to a sync request, or was from teh autosync.
cassidyyeah, and it was a mistake. We are sorry about that02:47
ScottK\sh: That's what I'm arguing for.02:47
cassidyand then we release .14 one or 2 days later to fix it02:47
ScottKHobbsee: bigon asked for a sync from Debian.02:47
Hobbseebut, it now is obsolete code, and so any other bugs discovered in .13, that are not in .14 wont get fixe.d02:47
HobbseeScottK: ah, noted.  i thougth bigon was in touch with cassidy02:48
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Hobbsee(and that this stuff would have been picked up on reasonably quickly)02:48
ScottKNo, that's wrong.02:48
ScottKIt was uploaded directly to Ubuntu.02:49
Hobbseeoh, this was the fakesync?  or this was something that never hit debian?02:50
ScottK.13 was in Debian, we just didn't get it from there.02:50
bigonScottK: I asked a sync for the .12 release not the .1302:50
ScottKYes.  I see that now.02:50
fernandomoin all02:50
ScottKbigon: Was it you that had 13-0ubuntu1 uploaded?02:50
bigonScottK: nop02:51
ScottKWho is Adilson Oliveira <adilson@ubuntu.com>?02:51
ScottKThat's who's listed in .changes.02:51
HobbseeScottK: mobile guy02:51
ScottKAh hah.02:52
ScottKWell then I'd say he can patch it.02:52
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Hobbseesec, i'll speak to him02:52
ScottKcassidy avoids useless work and we don't ship with a regression.02:52
\shhmmm..this sounds like "He said Jehovah"02:53
bigonHobbsee: I know cassidy personally, we were both in the same class in university02:54
Hobbseebigon: apologies, i thought you'd asked for this request02:54
=== ScottK too. Sorry about that.
=== \sh wants to have his old mouse speed back,...and key repeats
proppydholbach: ScottK: I've splitted poker-network bug report as norsetto suggested, I'm about to post a debdiff resolving the Pre-Depends problems, should it be based on released ubuntu1, merged with norsetto's non-released-yet ubuntu2 patch (from the previous bug report), or published in a fresh new ubuntu3 ?02:58
ScottKproppy: Do one debdiff that solves both bugs and call it ubuntu2.02:59
Hobbseecassidy: what are you planning to introduce, in the next couple of weeks, for telepathy*?03:00
bigonHobbsee, Scott: no problem :)03:00
cassidyHobbsee: Which parts? There are lot of components: gabble, salut, empathy...03:00
Hobbseecassidy: all of it, i guess.03:00
pygi... fama :)03:00
zulwha more uvfs?03:01
bigonpygi: hehe :)03:01
bigonHobbsee: I will answer your mail on MC, but now I need to go out03:01
cassidyHobbsee: I'm personally working for the OLPC and are now in bug fixing mode for next release03:01
Hobbseecassidy: just wondering if we'll get another uvfe, and if we do, how safe it will be to improve03:01
Hobbseecassidy: right, OK03:01
cassidyHobbsee: shouldn't be03:02
Hobbseeer, s/improve/approve/03:02
Hobbseebigon: that's fine03:02
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cassidyhopefully next gabble should have tubes support, definitely not a trivial release03:02
cassidyso Gutsy +103:02
Hobbseeright, cool03:02
cassidydon't know plans for Empathy but I don't think it will be shipped in Gutsy either03:03
cassidycurrent work is refactoring + voip03:03
ScottKHobbsee: Did you get a hold of Adilson?03:04
HobbseeScottK: partially, he's on the phone.03:04
proppynorsetto: ping03:10
norsettoproppy: pong03:10
proppynorsetto: you said that my previous debdiff didn't apply, is this the correct command to generate one : debdiff poker-network_1.1.1-1ubuntu1.dsc poker-network_1.1.1-1ubuntu2.dsc03:11
norsettoproppy: yes03:12
proppylet's try again03:12
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norsettoproppy: let me know where/when you upload it so I can check03:12
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proppynorsetto: #138836 #13757303:19
proppynorsetto: bug #138836 bug #13757303:20
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13883603:20
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13757303:20
proppydebdiff uploaded03:22
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norsettoproppy: the one in bug 137573 applies correctly and debuild produces a correct .dsc; didn't check it with pbuilder though03:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13757303:26
proppyok thanks03:27
Hobbseedholbach: ping03:27
dholbachHobbsee: pong03:27
proppyScottK: dholbach: Feel free to review bug #138836 and bug #137573 when you're are available03:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13883603:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13757303:28
dholbachproppy: it installs fine in a chroot now?03:28
proppyyep, if you install required dependencies when dpkg ask to03:29
proppyand answer no to mysql related question it does installs fine03:29
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proppyLet me try another time :)03:29
proppyIs there a way to install only the dependencies of one package ?03:31
proppyor should I grep control ?03:31
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dholbachcongratulations bluekuja03:33
HobbseeScottK: StevenK zul soren ping03:34
zulHobbsee: yessssss03:35
proppydholbach: dpkg -i *.deb now produce http://paste.ubuntu.com/121/ instead of http://paste.ubuntu.com/118/03:35
Hobbseezul: right, there's one03:36
dholbachproppy: right03:36
proppythen apt-get -f install03:37
proppyinstall missing dbconfig-common03:37
proppyand then dpkg -i *.deb install poker-web correctly if you answer "No" to database related debconf questions03:38
proppy(which are not the default answers)03:38
ScottKHobbsee: Yes?03:41
Hobbseeright, now we have 203:41
=== Hobbsee waits for StevenK
StevenKHobbsee: Hum?03:42
proppydholbach: You still have to provide mysql information somehow, for the package to be fully functionnal, but at least now, it does output debconf human readable message, instead of a dpkg criptic error message.03:43
ScottKHobbsee: What's up?03:45
ScottKproppy: It's better to get the installation finished with some additional configuration required than to end up in an unistallable state.03:46
HobbseeScottK: StevenK zul right.03:46
Hobbseei've now found the cause of the mess.03:47
Hobbseecurrently, we have exceptions for:  ubuntustudio-affecting packages, mythbuntu-affecting packages, and we also have one for Ubuntu Mobile packages (which i accepted, and forgot to mention here, i think.  sorry!)03:48
ScottKWe do?03:48
Hobbseethe first two were covered in the recent MOTU meeting03:48
Hobbseeone of the meetings recently, anywya03:48
ScottKThe ubuntustdio and mythbuntu ones were for meta packages that didn't affect Ubuntu, not for regular packages.03:49
Hobbseecorrect.  ie, stuff that doesnt affect anything else, but the subprojects03:49
Hobbseethe telepathy-gabble is part of mobile stuff as well, so that's why it got uploaded without a uvfe.03:49
Hobbseei have asked the people who made the packages, and who uploaded it to be more careful about checking for bugs afterwards03:50
ScottKSo what does this UME magic wand cover?03:50
Hobbsee"if you want to upload something during a freeze, you should really be checking for bugs created as a result of your uploads.  if you dont have time, then you need to make sure someone else looks at them."03:50
Hobbsee"you are listed as the uploader, so you are the last point of contact"03:50
Hobbseenot much, most of it is in main.03:51
ScottKThe telepathy pacakges are not in the catagory of stuff we waived for ubuntustudio and mythbuntu.03:51
ScottKWhere is this documented?03:51
proppyScottK: That's what debconf suggest, if you choose to "ignore" mysql configuration03:51
ScottKproppy: OK.  Last time I never even got the debconf question, so this sounds like an improvement.03:52
Hobbseeapparently there are around 20 packages in universe covered by the UME UVFe03:53
ScottKWhere is this UVFe?03:53
proppyScottK: yep adding dbconfig-common Pre-Depends unlocked the debconf stage03:53
ScottKproppy: Good.03:53
Hobbseeincluding telepathy-*, moblin-*, any ume-config packages, bluez-* (within reason, since it touches -desktop too), also, tasks, dates, contacts03:53
norsettolinux-headers-generic doesn't exist on sparc, powerpc, lpia and ia64; will it ever?03:53
ScottKHobbsee: What are you reading from?03:54
zulnorsetto: you should check the kernel.ubuntu.com git to get a better idea03:54
HobbseeScottK: that in particular was a query with mithrandir.03:54
norsettozul: right03:54
ScottKHobbsee: So there is actual UVFe documented?03:54
ScottKis/is no03:55
zulHobbsee: can we get a list as well?03:55
HobbseeScottK: not publically.  i do have logs of it03:55
Hobbseezul: of?03:55
zulwhich ones are covered by ume03:55
Hobbseezul: the list above was it, although a couple may be missed there.03:56
ScottKHobbsee: Where is the "Must get a UVFe except when it's inconvenient for some core-dev" rule documented?03:56
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=== Hobbsee will admit to documentation not being her strong point
HobbseeScottK: that rule doesnt exit.03:57
Hobbseeer, exist03:57
=== ScottK is needing some convincing not to quit motu-uvf right now.
ScottKIf there are secret handshake deals that make the exercise moot.03:58
ScottKWhy bother?03:58
Hobbseei dont think it is that way03:59
ScottKThat's certainly what it sounds like.03:59
geser@motu-uvf: what are the chances to get an UVFe for firebird2.0 based on this changelog http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/f/firebird2.0/current/changelog ?03:59
ScottKUME wanted stuff and decided they got a special exception to the rules.03:59
Hobbseebut there are certain packages that we need to have the latest of, as companies develop off those03:59
HobbseeScottK: the main section was accepted by the ubuntu release team.  i didnt see a reason why the universe version would nto be, on that basis.04:00
ScottKThen there is a process to go through and people who are supposed to make a judgement about it.04:00
Frogzoothe ubuntu linux-source builds a package for me called kernel-image_2.6... - how to get the build to call the deb linux-image_2.6...?04:01
ScottKHobbsee: Right.  So I sit here and argue about a UVFe for a package that has a blanket waiver I know nothing about.04:01
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HobbseeScottK: i've already apologised for not telling you about it, because i forgot, and because i didnt realise that it must have been part of the mobile stuff, until i saw the uploader.04:02
Hobbseeit did go through the judgement process - hte ubuntu release team accepted it for main.  is it not likely that what holds for main also holds for universe?04:02
Hobbseei'm somewhat surprised that this is even coming up - that universe has a stricter QA control than main?04:03
zulit doesnt04:03
ScottKIt's not a question about stricter QA, it's a question of who's decision it is to make.04:03
ScottKIf someone had said, "We need X universe packages for UME and we'll fix what we break", I'm sure it'd have been fine.04:03
Hobbseeare you really going to make a decision that a group can have a blanket UVFe for main, and not for universe?04:03
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ScottKThe point is that there is no UVFe at this point, just UME devs uploading stuff.04:04
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StevenKI can see Hobbsee's point, but I can also see ScottK's point.04:05
=== Fujitsu also sees both sides.
Hobbseeor that there is, from the ubuntu release team for the entire archive, and i forgot to tell you.04:05
Hobbseei can see ScottK's side here too04:05
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=== Hobbsee wonders if the ubuntu release team trumps motu-uvf
zulit probably does04:07
bddebianHeya gang04:07
ScottKI'd like to at least be informed.04:07
FujitsuThey do, but probably shouldn't be overriding things like this. At least trying to go through the process would be nice.04:07
HobbseeFujitsu: they did - i acked it.  i then forgot to communicate it, unfortunately.04:08
dholbachTheMuso: did you register ubuntu-dev-tools (upstream product)?04:08
FujitsuDoesn't a UVFe require two acks?04:08
dholbachTheMuso: if so, can you make 'motu' the maintainer?04:08
Hobbseeit was more of a "oh, and by the way, we're presuming that you guys wont have a major problem with extending this uvfe to universe"04:08
FujitsuOr am I out of date?04:08
ScottKFujitsu: That's what we've been doing.04:08
ScottKThat was my next question for Hobbsee.04:09
HobbseeFujitsu: if the URT trumps motu-uvf, it had 2 acks - one from me, and one from the guy who proposed it.  the fact that neither of us actually remembered to convey it outside of that conversation is regrettable.04:09
ScottKHobbsee: This isn't helping my motivation.04:11
Hobbseei realise that.04:11
Hobbseewhat do you honestly expect me to do?04:11
ScottKI'm not sure.04:11
Hobbseei cant go back in time, and make sure that change was broadcast.04:12
Hobbseeby all means, you can continue to blast me - but it doesnt really help you, except for getting your anger out.04:12
ScottKHow about file a bug that documents it.04:12
bddebianThat reminds me.  Are we supposed to somehow identify that a sync request is just a revision bump not a new version?04:13
ScottKIf it's just a revision, just file it as normal to the archive.04:14
norsettobddebian: now I understand why you said good luck with rutilt yesterday04:14
ScottKIf it's a new version, subscribe motu-uvf instead.04:14
bddebiannorsetto: :-)04:14
geserhi bddebian04:14
bddebianScottK: OK, just wanted to make sure because they have processed one of my removal requests but none of my sync requests.04:14
bddebianHi geser04:14
zulnorsetto: why do you need the kernel headers for rutilt why not use linux-libc-dev?04:14
=== ScottK hasn't had any sync's processed recently either.
norsettobddebian: didn't know there was already a package that failed build; in any case, mine builds ok :-)04:15
norsettozul: let me check04:15
bddebiannorsetto: Awesome04:15
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HobbseeScottK: bugs get lost.04:16
ScottKSo that's a no?04:16
Hobbseeand as you may have noticed, irc is not a reliable way either, as not everyone is here.04:16
Hobbseei didnt say that.04:16
ScottKWhat do you suggest then?04:17
Hobbseei'm thinking about that.04:17
Hobbseeprivate email works, but it's not public.04:17
norsettozul: would that fix also the ftbfs on sparc, lpia and ia64?04:20
geserHobbsee, ScottK, zul: what are the chances to get an UVFe for firebird2.0 based on this changelog http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/f/firebird2.0/current/changelog ?04:21
norsettozul: ok, if you sponsor it I will upload a fix :-)04:21
zulnorsetto: has it been reviewed? beside it might not get to gutsy for some reason04:22
zulgeser: i would say pretty good04:22
ScottKgeser: How many of those CVEs are open in the current Ubuntu version?04:22
norsettozul: its in gutsy already; this would be a bug fix only04:22
geser!info firebird2.0-clasic gutsy04:22
geser!info firebird2.0-classic gutsy04:23
Hobbsee firebird2.0  ( unstable; urgency=low is current04:23
zulif you subscribe uus then it could possible get done tonight04:23
ScottKgeser: I'd say file the UVFe.04:24
norsettozul: filing the bug right now04:25
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ScottKHobbsee: Having thought about it a bit, I think that if there is an urgent issue that Ubuntu RM needs to resolve, they certainly have the right and responsibility to act even if a Universe UVFe is technically required.  I believe that in other situations that the Ubuntu RM ought to respect the community processes for Universe.  Does that sound reasonable?04:33
bddebianUbuntu RM?04:34
ScottKRelease Manager04:34
bddebiangeser: Did you happen to remove openser from Lucas's list?04:34
bddebianScottK: Ah04:34
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\shbddebian, what's up with openser?04:36
geserbddebian: no, it's still listed04:36
bddebianIt needs some work because of some API changes in the new xmlrpc-c04:36
bddebiangeser: Hmm, I swore it wasn't there last night.. Weird04:36
StevenKScottK: Agreed.04:37
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HobbseeScottK: a) in that, you assume that the release team is all canonical people.  it isnt.04:39
ScottKHobbsee: I don't think I assume that.04:39
Hobbseeb) so, you're saying that the URT could accept an immediate upload for universe, as it was urgent, but after that they they wouldnt be able to upload again?04:40
Hobbseeyou do, implicitly, by calling it community processes04:40
ScottKRM has non-Canonical participation, but it is not a community process.04:41
ScottKThe community doesn't vote for RM.04:41
Hobbseethis is true, most people are not interested in it.04:41
Hobbseeof course, then you get into discussions about "are the canonical people community members too, and if so, and they created the processes, does that make them community processes too?", but i'm happy to leave that one alone.04:42
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ScottKI agree with you that RM may trump mot-uvf.  The question is when they should.04:43
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ScottKI would say that unless there is an urgent need, they should not.04:44
\shI thought Canonical can always overrule any processe, without asking anyone04:45
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ScottK\sh: Sure.  They can.  They question is should they and how grumpy should I be about it.04:45
Hobbsee\sh: i think you have to remember tha tthey are still a bunch of people, and arent about to screw others over jsut for the sake of doing so.04:45
Hobbsee\sh: actually, they cant overrule major proceedures - the TB, CC, etc arent canonical-only, nor are they canonical-majorities, i believe04:46
Mithrandirbut sabdfl can overrule any of those.04:47
Hobbseeoh, point.04:47
bddebian\sh: Wanna fix openser for me, it's kicking my arse ;-)04:47
ScottKHobbsee: At this point the main thing I think is to document this UME handwave UVFe so we all at least know what the ground rules are.04:48
Mithrandirit's not particular to universe or main, though, just like the gnome blanket exception isn't either.04:49
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=== ScottK says, "What Gnome blanket exception"?
MithrandirGNOME stuff has a standing UVFe.04:50
Mithrandirand has at least had since the summer of 200404:50
ScottKBefore my time.04:50
shriphaniumm how do I help with packaging ?04:50
\shHobbsee, I have a different view...regarding Ubuntu, Canonical and earning money with it...04:51
Mithrandirhowever, since the UME exception isn't an universe- or main-specific exception, I believe it's firmly in the release team's territory.  However it should have told motu-uvf about it.04:51
\shHobbsee, so for me it's ok, if someone is uploading packages to the archives without going the normal process04:51
\shbddebian, I had a look at openser last week...that's why I don't touch it ;)04:52
ScottKMithrandir: So it's your position that any exception that is not Universe specific is up to the release team?04:53
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MithrandirScottK: it's my position that in deciding distro-wide matters pertaining to a release, the release team would be the team that could grant exceptions, etc, yes.04:55
Mithrandir(unless it's a techboard matter or similar, of course.)04:55
Hobbseeelse it may as well be called the acting-but-not-really-doing-anything Release Team04:56
ScottKHow are these release team exceptions documented?04:56
HobbseeMithrandir: which, presumably, the mobile exception falls under04:56
Mithrandirat the moment, they're not, which is probably something somebody should do something about.04:57
MithrandirHobbsee: yes, I would say so.04:57
Mithrandirthat ubuntu-mobile currently is mostly in universe is mostly because nobody has written the MIRs yet.04:57
StevenKI suspecting that will change before release?04:58
MithrandirStevenK: that's a goal, yes.04:58
Mithrandirbut I'd rather actually do the MIRs than just talking to pitti and getting him to mass-approve it.04:59
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Mithrandirthough, we haven't yet decided completely what 7.10 should look like from an UME PoV.  It might just be mostly a useful development snapshot rather than something usable for end-users.05:00
=== StevenK nods.
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StevenKdholbach: Can I remove the full stop from the description of u-d-t?05:00
StevenKdholbach: The title in Firefox is "Useful tools for Ubuntu developers. in Launchpad - Mozilla Firefox"05:01
dholbachStevenK: sure05:02
dholbachStevenK: can you change the maintainer of ubuntu-dev-tools in LP to 'motu'?05:02
dholbachI didn't find the right knob for that05:02
StevenKI can't even find the right knob to remove the full stop05:03
dholbachI think it's because themuso registered it05:03
dholbachsomebody has the full control over it and should give it to 'motu'05:03
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StevenKTheMuso: Can you please remove the full stop from the description of ubuntu-dev-tools, and hand over control of it to motu?05:04
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StevenKdholbach: u-d-t commited and pushed05:14
dholbachStevenK: ROCK!05:14
StevenKOh, drat.05:14
=== StevenK adds the bug to u-d-t's changelog.
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ScottKHobbsee: I'd appreciate it if you would get with Mithrandir and document however you decide is best the release team exceptions that exist.  Until that's done, I really don't know what to consider saying no to.05:17
=== ScottK isn't going to waste a bunch of time again on stuff that has an exception.
norsettoStevenK: HEAVY ROCK!05:17
HobbseeScottK: fair enough.05:19
HobbseeScottK: but the physics assignment takes precedence, and tonight's discussion hasnt really helped that05:19
=== Hobbsee may drop off irc for a few days
bddebiando be do be doooo05:21
=== Hobbsee is working an insane number of hours, and attempting to catch up on uni.
Hobbseeso, if ubuntu stuff becomes unproductive and/or unpleasant, that's likely to be the first thing that i'll stop doing.05:23
Hobbseeso, see you.  i'm off to do this physics assignment.05:24
StevenKHobbsee: But uni's been unpleasant for weeks now .... :-P05:24
Hobbseetrue that05:24
=== Hobbsee doesnt have to keep copping crap for stuff she doesnt get paid for, incidently.
Hobbseenor am i bound to get stuff done in certain timeframes05:25
Hobbseenor do i particularly appreciate infinitums (?).05:25
=== Hobbsee --> gone.
StevenKinfinitum is infinity in Latin, I suspect she means ultimatium.05:26
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=== ScottK too.
=== bddebian 3
MithrandirScottK: people shouldn't be filing exception requests for things that have standing exceptions, so if anybody did, I apologise for that.05:30
StevenKdholbach, norsetto: devscripts and u-d-t uploaded.05:30
ScottKMithrandir: That's what happened on some telepathy packages and neither the upstream, the requestor, nor motu-uvf knew there was an exception.05:32
Mithrandirupstream shouldn't ever need to know.05:32
ScottKRight, just saying.05:32
dholbachStevenK: thanks a lot05:33
\shMithrandir, I thought gnome has always those exceptions...and that is known to anyone, just because gnome has at least the same release time cycle05:33
ScottKMithrandir: The problem here is that the person requesting the exception was a MOTU hopeful interested in Telepathy.  Not anyone working (AFAIK) on UME.05:33
Mithrandir\sh: yes, and telepathy is part of gnome-mobile, which UME builds on.05:35
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\shMithrandir, so everything is fine, no discussion needed :)05:37
MithrandirScottK: this just looks like a honest mistake to me and while it has uncovered some bits we should take care of, it doesn't appear to be a big deal to me.05:37
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=== ScottK would mostly really like to see these exceptions documented so this doesn't happen again.
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ScottKMithrandir: No problem.  I'm just going to leave UVFe's alone until I know what the exceptions are so I don't waste my time again.05:39
Mithrandirsure, just saying that having it documented doesn't automatically fix the problem05:40
Mithrandiroh well.  Dogwalk. :-)05:41
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ScottKMithrandir: Having it documented is a great step forward from (from the perspective of motu-uvf) having some unknown set of packages for which an exception exists.05:44
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dholbachsee you tomorrow, guys!06:50
bddebianLater dholbach06:51
bddebianGah, WTF is up with the wiki?06:51
dholbachbddebian: what do you mean?06:53
bddebianI'm logging on a new PC and it's trying to save my preferences and it just keeps loading... :-(06:54
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DarkSun88Hi all06:56
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bddebianHeya DarkSun8807:02
DarkSun88Hi bddebian, how are you?07:02
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bddebianOK thanks, yourself?07:02
DarkSun88Well, thanks.07:03
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norsettozul: still around? I have an answer to your question on bug 138904. Is there any way for me to check beforehand?07:04
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zulpossibly get access to something like a ppc and test it?07:08
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norsettoanyone around with a spare ppc?07:24
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geserbigon: do you know if other pam modules would also benefit from a rebuild with pam 0.99?08:07
bigongeser: no sorry, I don't08:08
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zulgeser: better ask keescook08:09
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mdomschgreetings, I'm having a packaging problem I hope someone can help me with08:27
mdomschI'm packaging DKMS, it's in REVU already08:27
mdomschthe deb contains two files, /etc/kernel/{prerm,postinst}.d/dkms08:27
Babywhat's DKMS? :)08:27
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zulhi mdomsch08:28
mdomschwhich are present in the deb per dpkg-deb -c08:28
mdomschhowever, after the install with 'dpkg -i', they aren't on the file system08:29
mdomschBaby, "Dynamic Kernel Module Support" - http://linux.dell.com/dkms08:29
mdomschzul, greets08:29
mdomschI've been looking for a few hours trying to see why those two files (and only those two that I can tell) aren't getting laid down on the fs08:30
zulmdomsch: i can have a look in a little bit08:30
mdomschzul, I'd appreciate it08:31
mdomschhttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=228 is new enough to demonstrate the problem08:32
keescookgeser: they might, but afaiu, only modules that use newer interfaces would benefit.08:34
keescook(and which those are, I'm not sure.)08:34
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geserkeescook: should they all still be rebuild or only those where we know that they benefit? this way one could test if they still build with the new pam08:41
keescookgeser: they should all still rebuild (since the "old" library calls are still all supported).  It wouldn't hurt to test-build them, but requiring a rebuild shouldn't be needed.08:42
geserkeescook: is there any easy way to check if a pam module also supports the newer interfaces and would benefit from a rebuild?08:44
Whoopiekeescook: thanks a lot for updating PAM. now, some out-of-Ubuntu PAM modules can be built successfully.08:45
keescookgeser: the only way I know of is to look at the source and see if it explicitly tests for the 0.99 version.08:45
keescookWhoopie: you're welcome, though Debian deserves the credit.  ;)08:45
Whoopiekeescook: ok, thanks Debian. ;)08:45
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Whoopiebut seriously, looking at the changelog, this was not an easy task.08:49
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Ursinhahi all09:00
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geserbigon: do you know what's the difference between libpam-keyring and libpam-gnome-keyring? From the description they seem to do the same.09:07
bigongeser: libpam-gnome-keyring comes from the gnome-keyring project, libpam-keyring was written by a 3rd party developer, I will ask the removing of libpam-keyring for gutsy+1 (i'm the debian maintainer if it)09:09
Nafallobigon: why not now?09:10
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bigonNafallo: because we are in feature freeze? I'm not it can be done so late in the dev process09:11
Nafallohmm, is it a feature to not have that package then?09:12
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\shbigon, when I'm correct, there is no package which depends on libpam-keyring, right?09:20
bigon\sh: right09:20
\shbigon, so using libpam-gnome-keyring will be  the better alternative then libpam-keyring, file a removal request with all rational...and then it's ok...09:20
\shremoving something which is not needed by anything is not a feature09:21
bigon\sh: ok09:21
\shbigon, you are the debian maintainer, so you need to be sure it's the best thing we can do09:21
bigon\sh: well upstream seems dead and nobody has ever made an audit... and the gnome-keyring pam module seems to do this way better..09:22
\shbigon, so file a removal request..we don't need dead sources ,-)09:23
geser\sh: we have already enough? :)09:23
alvinc\sh:  have you been in touch with siretart regarding FAI in the last week?09:24
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\shalvinc, nope..he didn't ping me09:24
\shgeser, I think so, when I see lucas list of brokeness09:25
=== \sh is BRB
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alvinc\sh:  I was hoping to work on FAI a bit.  The version in feisty kicks out quite a few errors, most of which look pretty easy to resolve09:28
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\shalvinc, do you have a short list of errors? :)09:29
alvinc\sh:  I am hoping to migrate my workplace over to Ubuntu from the other distros we have in-house.  For this I need FAI to work cleanly.09:29
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alvinc\sh:  Oh, quite a few.  :)  Portmapper hangs on startup, one of the scripts is kicking errors with "[" in the stderr log (usually indicative of running /bin/sh on a bash script) and other seemingly simple things09:30
alvinc\sh:  I was thinking to pull down the latest FAI and build it out.  But if I do that, then I think I should contribute it back.09:30
alvinc\sh:  I'd rather not be making a lot of site-specific hacks and such09:31
\shalvinc, ugg...portmapper has nothing to do with FAI, it's just a depends for the later nfs import of nfsroot on the clients...so portmapper is something strange09:31
alvinc\sh:  Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well09:31
alvinc\sh:  NFS protocol junk.  Still, some comments in the /etc/fai/*.conf files might be useful.  :)09:32
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\shalvinc, about portmap...do you see the hang up when you setup a normal nfs server  and mount some nfsshares from a client?09:33
alvincno sir, I don't09:33
alvincnfs-kernel-server and fai-quickstart is all09:33
\shalvinc, Edubuntu (say ogra) are using NFS extensivly afaik09:33
siretartalvinc: sorry, I haven't done a lot of fai work this weekend either. :(09:34
siretartI hope I get to that this week09:34
alvinc\sh:  nod.  i was hoping to work on it with you guys?09:34
alvinc\sh:  I need a motu mentor too, by the way.  :)09:35
\shalvinc, /me is just a contributor as you...:)09:35
norsettodpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ubuntu-dev-tools_0.5_all.deb09:35
norsettotrying to overwrite `/usr/bin/requestsync', which is also in package devscripts09:35
norsettoanyone working on this?09:35
bigonis someone could confirm this bug #138964 (and subscribe archive admin)09:37
ubotuLaunchpad bug 138964 in pam-keyring "Please remove pam-keyring from the archive" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13896409:37
\shalvinc, so try to setup a plain normal nfs server with some exports, and do some nfs mounts from a client...09:38
\shalvinc, u should use udp ;) which is the default09:38
alvinc\sh and siretart:  Is there a Launchpad team for FAI?09:38
\shalvinc, nope..fai team is on irc.debian.org #fai :)09:38
alvinc\sh:  confirming the behaviour now, stand by09:38
\shalvinc, thomas lange (aka MrFai) is always happy when people come by to support fai :)09:39
alvinc\sh:  how is the collaboration between debian and ubuntu on FAI?  pretty tight?09:39
alvinc\sh:  the behaviours between the two aren't the same, you see.  The same version of FAI on etch using a feisty mirror works cleanly.  That version on feisty gives...  errors.  :)09:40
\shalvinc, regarding siretart and me (I'm using FAI at work extensively) very good :)09:40
alvinc\sh:  lol!09:40
alvinc\sh:  I want to migrate our platforms off of ks/anaconda/fedora to fai/ubuntu09:41
\shalvinc, I know the fai maintainer personally and well, we do a lot together regarding fai :)09:41
alvinc\sh:  the ability to manage local repositories is a huge win, i think09:41
\shalvinc, why not fedora with fai?09:41
alvinc\sh:  i don't like yum.  :)09:41
\shalvinc, so use smart :)09:42
alvinc\sh:  you're the second person today who has mentioned that to me.  i really need to check it out.  rofl09:42
\shalvinc, I'm installing sles9 and ubuntu with fai at work...it's nice :)09:42
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siretartalvinc: not yet. we could create one, though09:43
alvinc\sh:  if i could get ubuntu, centos, and fedora to all use fai...  that could be a good thing09:43
alvincsiretart:  i think that would be really cool09:43
siretart\sh: would you join a fai team as well?09:43
siretart\sh: the team would be mainly for code branches and ppa09:43
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\shsiretart, if we get thomas to work as well, what I don't think he is doing, why not...09:44
Nafalloyum install apt-get? ;-)09:44
UrsinhaNafallo, hahahahaahh :)09:44
NafalloUrsinha: does work! :-)09:45
\shsiretart, when we push our changes directly to thomas, he's glad to add them in debian, too...you know that :)09:45
UrsinhaNafallo, i know! have done this once :p09:45
siretart\sh: err, yes. indeed09:45
siretart\sh: so you don't think we'd need a launchpad team?09:45
\shsiretart, honestly no...and regarding ubuntus way of not using fai or supporting it, there is no need...09:46
Nafallosiretart: ask maswan if he would join in that case ;-)09:46
alvinc\sh:  i wonder how to change that perception.....09:46
alvinc\sh:  i know some guys who might work on it09:46
\shalvinc, fai is very special...and not many people are using or working with fai...only the hardcore people ;)09:46
\shlike maswan or siretart or some xen experts09:47
alvinc\sh:  i'm honestly kind of surprised at that09:47
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alvinc\sh:  the beauty of kickstart, i think, is that it can be complete http based.  but it's sloppier by far, from what i have noticed09:47
siretartalvinc: you seriously think a lp group would make the guys you are talking about work on fai for ubuntu?09:47
\shalvinc, you know, people are tired of learning shell and perl...I'm the only one in my company who is doing fai and can read shell and perl perfectly :)09:47
alvincsiretart:  i'm sending a couple of guys some e-mail right now.  :)09:48
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alvinc\sh:  around my area, shell and perl are a must09:49
alvinc\sh:  but then, i'm in silicon valley09:49
\shalvinc, fai is very canonical, regarding support of distros...you can do what every you want withit, when you know how...and regarding the situation of documentation, it's very difficult to know what you can do with fai09:49
alvinc\sh:  i had noticed that.  i think there would be value in cleaning up those parts09:50
alvinc\sh:  not everyone likes to look at changelists or disassemble big scripts09:50
alvinc\sh:  Although, honestly, Solaris Jumpstart had the same problem at the beginning09:51
alvinc\sh:  But the value of it caught on09:51
alvinc\sh:  a lot of companies in my area really want automatic provisioning09:51
\shalvinc, ah.....thomas used fai to guide jumpstart ;)09:51
alvinc\sh:  lol.  I thought I saw some similarities.  :)09:52
alvinc\sh:  I wrote the Jumpstart examples in the Solaris Implementation textbook, back in 199309:52
alvinc\sh:  oops.  it was published in 95.  but we did it in 93.  http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-Implementation-Guide-System-Administrators/dp/0133533506/ref=sr_1_1/103-0834914-3295800?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189540384&sr=1-109:53
\shalvinc, but seriously, fai is just one stone of the wall to deal with in a datacenter environment...Thomas is always telling the people: "Just install FAI and plug your install clients in, it works" which is mostly correct, but for big datacenter environments you want "ITIL" ;) and some of the things ITIL needs is a CMDB and this cmdb can be filed and used with and by FAI...09:55
alvinc\sh:  i'm not up on ITIL, honestly.  but integration with change management db doesn't sound too hard to me09:56
alvinc\sh:  just need to pretty-fy some things, i think09:56
alvinc\sh:  custom kickstarts are a huge horrid mess to sift through09:57
alvinc\sh:  FAI has a structure, which lends well to version control (cmdb stuff again)09:57
alvinc\sh:  we were able to deploy entire environments, with the FAI configs being part and parcel of each software release09:57
alvinc\sh:  if your company makes deb packages, that is09:58
alvinc\sh:  we generated both deb and rpm09:58
alvinc\sh:  the FAI method was much cleaner in use than the kickstart method09:58
alvinc\sh:  although FAI had a bigger learning curve, due to the availability of GUI-based kickstart things09:58
alvinc\sh:  But still, kickstart was a pain to do with vi.  :)09:58
\shalvinc, as I said,I'm using fai for ubuntu (which is easy) and sles9...for sles9 and ubuntu packages I'm using opensuse buildservice sourcecode and build packages which are automatically synced in our package repositories (rpm-md for rpm packages, and apt repos for debian/ubuntu)...and using the cmdb to get all the data for the machine I need by installtime :)09:59
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alvinc\sh:  what's your opinion of pros and cons of rpm/yum versus deb/apt?10:00
alvinc\sh:  i have to admit, i am pretty biased toward apt10:00
\shalvinc, I'm pragmatic guy..what works is being used..10:02
\shalvinc, for rpm based distros I'm using yum or smart, because it just works..I want to deliver packages from http-services, have rpm-md repo, voila...10:02
\shalvinc, apt4rpm didn't work for me, because it couldn't be compiled on our sles9..10:03
alvinc\sh:  nod.  But you support both methods at your shop, right?  Which is easier to administer, and which is easier to use?10:03
\shalvinc, well, using the opensuse buildservice there is no work anymore :)10:03
\shalvinc, opensuse build service can create all types of repos you need, for debian packages it creates apt-gettable repos, for rpm based, you decide what you want, rpm-md or  zypper(yast) repos10:04
\shalvinc, and when you don't use the buildservice inhouse, a rpm-md repo is just a "createrepo" call away..10:04
\shalvinc, most of the time it's easier to create the rpm repos, then the debian repos10:05
\shalvinc, regarding source package building (means debian/ dir creation and filling in, and rpm spec file writing) it's something a good admin should know how to do it..10:05
alvinc\sh:  honestly, i have built more rpms myself than debs10:06
alvinc\sh:  but i'm definitely become a huge fan of apt10:07
\shalvinc, I don't make any difference anymore...I packaged for redhat when I worked there, I packaged for debian for my private opensource tools and I'm packaging for opensuse some packages and I'm packaging for ubuntu in general...10:08
\shalvinc, actually I'm a prostitute of the IT business...that's our common saying in our company...we do what we need to do, at least we get money for it :)10:10
alvinc\sh:  nod.  i am hoping to convert our business to a packaging method, rather than bombing tarballs on machines10:10
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\shalvinc, if you care about fai in ubuntu or in general, please join #fai@irc.debian.org :) I'm happy to see you there :)10:11
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=== \sh needs to fold some underwear, before my better half comes home :)
alvinc\sh:  !!!!!10:12
alvincjust kidding10:12
\shshe'll kill me, when I'm not doing my housework :)10:12
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jussi01hi proppy10:43
norsettohello proppy10:43
proppynorsetto: I was wondering, since I saw you working (great) on poker-network bugs10:46
proppynorsetto: do you review bugs like these on a daily basis ?10:47
norsettoproppy: all the people here do10:48
proppyjust to know about the process,10:49
proppydid you choose this bug by yourself, or were you kinda assigned to it10:49
norsettoproppy: well, that was a mix really :-)10:49
norsettoproppy: most of the people here are volunteers, they choose to do what they want mainly10:50
ScottKproppy: Virtually all of us here are volunteers and not paid for this, so it's pretty much work on what you feel like.  It's hard to order volunteers around.10:50
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norsettoproppy: not that scottK is not trying hard .....10:51
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=== ScottK makes suggestions, but has no actual authority at all. The fact that sometimes people listen is nice.
proppyMaybe ordering volunteers around is not that bad, at least in the begenning10:52
proppyfor learning I mean10:53
ajmitchthen you can start to lose volunteers if you order them around too much :)10:53
norsettoproppy: indeed, and when scottk is asking something, he has good reasons to do so10:53
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proppyajmitch: Just stop ordering when they are autonomous10:54
norsettoproppy: heck, then they start to be dangerous, like me ;-)10:54
bddebianWhat if we are forever helpless? :-)10:55
=== ScottK is still waiting for norsetto's MOTU application.
proppydangerous autonomous person10:55
norsettobddebian: hopeless10:55
norsettobddebian: no sorry, hopefull, dunno why I always mix them up....10:56
ScottKnorsetto: Any interest in bailing me out of a problem again?10:56
norsettoScottK: if I can10:56
bddebiannorsetto: Well you are hopeful, I am hopeless :-)10:56
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ScottKbddebian is old and grumpy.  Ignore his protestations of hopelessness.10:56
ScottKnorsetto: Would you have a look at how to get dpatch integrate the dkim-milter package in Gutsy.10:57
ScottKnorsetto: I have some patches from a later release I want to integrate, but their build system and dpatch in combination are kicking my butt right now.10:57
=== ajmitch has some stuff he needs to update asap
ajmitchexcept that ScottK can't really order me around on those10:58
flohackHey! Can someone please help me out getting a new Universe package for Ubuntu on track? The source package builds fine, but when trying to build the binary package with pbuilder, the result always is an empty package. I suspect that make install does not place all the file in the correct direcory, but I don't know how to debug the problem.10:58
norsettoproppy: watch scottk and learn, thats how you make them do it and make them happy to do it ;-)10:58
ajmitcheasy way when using pbuilder, is to capture the logfile, and use export DH_VERBOSE="1" in debian/rules10:59
ajmitchwhich gives you detailed info of what every debhelper tool is doing10:59
norsettoscottk: I can certainly put my nose in it (big nose, dunno if you noticed....)10:59
flohackajmitch: that's nice, I'll try that and report back...cheers!11:00
proppynorsetto: When someone is really good at it, he has different method for different minded people :)11:00
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jussi01Heya lads, (and ladies), trying to build something in pbuilder, but getting a load of 404's. on several different mirrors. anyone else geting this?11:01
ScottKjussi01: Not me.11:01
flohackajmitch: gosh it even tells you about DH_VERBOSE in the debian/rules header...I should get more sleep :-)11:01
geserjussi01: outdated package list in pbuilder? tried updating it?11:02
jussi01geser: good point....11:03
flohackjussi01: you can update like this: 'sudo pbuilder update --override-config --othermirror "deb http://at.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty universe multiverse|deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty-backports main universe multiverse"'11:03
norsettoScottK: you mean dkim-milter_1.2.0.dfsg-1ubuntu2 ?11:03
flohackjussi01: where the string in othermirror are the new repositories11:03
ScottKnorsetto: Yes.11:04
jussi01its all god.  :)11:04
norsettoscottK: where do you have the patches?11:04
ScottKnorsetto: I have a couple so far, but am still grovelling through the 2.0 upgrades to make sure I get all the good ones.11:04
norsettojussi01: hey, don't call bddebian name without reasons .....11:04
ScottKnorsetto: I can point you at one or two if you want to test...11:05
norsettoScottK: yes, pls11:05
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ScottKnorsetto: Digging up a url now.11:06
ScottKnorsetto: Here's one: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=139420&atid=744360&file_id=237221&aid=175489311:08
ubotuGaim bug 1754893 "Slight reader/writer lock bug" [Pri: 3,Closed accepted] 11:08
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ScottK2norsetto: Did you get the link to the patch?  I just had a power hit.11:10
flohackajmitch: Seems my make installs copies to the correct directory '/tmp/buildd/ktikz-0.4/debian/usr'. Nevertheless the package is empty. I think a debhelper script is missing in debian/rules. I'm new to debian package, so unfortunately I have no clue...any ideas? You can have a look at the relevant log snippet here: http://pastebin.com/d28c7fe2711:11
norsettoScottKs: its taking forever to download this .....11:11
ScottK2norsetto: Let me get you a better link11:12
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ajmitch# Add here commands to install the package into debian/ktikz.11:13
ScottK2norsetto: How about11:13
ubotuGaim bug 1754893 "Slight reader/writer lock bug" [Pri: 3,Closed accepted] 11:13
ajmitchnote that the ktizk is missing from the installation path you mentioned11:13
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ajmitchmake install is getting called with PREFIX instead of DESTDIR as well, which can cause some interesting issues11:14
ScottK2Oddly enough that's the right name for the patch, but the wrong project.11:14
norsettoScottK2: got it11:15
flohackok...got that from another package, obviously a bad idea...my line is: $(MAKE) install PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr11:15
ScottK2norsetto: Great.11:15
ajmitchthe prefix shouldn't need to eb changed, but use $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/ktizk11:16
flohackshould it be $(MAKE) install PREFIX=$(DESTDIR)/usr11:16
ajmitchno, don't set PREFIX, set DESTDIR11:16
flohackI'm not sure the makefile generated by qmake honours DESTDIR?11:16
flohackI'll have a look...11:16
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ajmitchit may not, if qmake is annoyingly broken11:16
ajmitchhello LaserJock :)11:16
LaserJockhmm, I suppose something from Multiverse wouldn't be good in a PPA11:17
ScottK2Heya LaserJock.11:17
LaserJockhi guys11:17
norsettoScott2: you want to use dpatch?11:17
ajmitchflohack: $(MAKE) install PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr wouldn't work if $package wasn't set11:17
flohackHUH...it doesn't even honour PREFIX...as it seems11:17
flohackok...you have to pass it to qmake...not to make11:18
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superm1_MMA_, got a sec?11:18
flohack$package seems to be set when looking at the logs11:19
superm1_MMA_, someone was requesting us to add the ability to install into an ubuntustudio-desktop meta from mythbuntu-control-centre11:19
ScottK2norsetto: I mostly want to add patches.  Dpatch is what I'd have guessed would be best, but I'm flexible.11:19
superm1wanted to see what you thought about that11:19
norsettoScottk2: np for me, I quite like dpatch11:19
flohackajmitch: the notion of DESTDIR does not seem to exists in qmake...have to use PREFIX...which value would be correct? Can it be correct at all? What if CURDIR changes between the calls to qmake and make (probably doesn't i suppose)11:20
_MMA_superm1: Thats fine with me. Have you looked through the package list? Its really just a striped-down ubuntu-desktop with our art. I just wonder why? :)11:20
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superm1no rt kernel or anything _MMA_ ?11:21
LaserJock_MMA_: because it's cool!!11:21
LaserJockjust call it mythstudio ;-)11:21
_MMA_superm1: Well installed from the repos it wont pull a kernel.11:21
superm1_MMA_, is the kernel not in the repos?11:22
_MMA_'tis but -rt isnt set as a depend.11:22
LaserJockman I hate time zones11:22
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LaserJockwhy can't we all be awake at the same time?11:23
superm1_MMA_, hm okay.  well so if the meta just pulls your artwork, how do we decide whose goes active :)11:23
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_MMA_superm1: PM.11:23
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flohackCan someone please tell me how the correct way of specifying LOGNAME for building with pbuilder is, because I keep getting warnings like: 'debian: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)'11:24
geserflohack: that's normal and you can ignore it11:25
flohackgeser: I see...thanks!11:25
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norsettoScottk: done11:28
ScottKnorsetto: Cool.11:29
flohackajmitch: 'qmake-qt4 PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/ktikz/usr' for the configure target seems to du the trick...thanks for your help!11:29
ScottKBeyond adding dpatch to build-depends did you have to do anything outside debian/rules?11:29
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ScottKnorsetto: Would you mind emailing it to me or pastebining it?11:30
norsettothe debdiff?11:31
norsettoScottK: the debdiff?11:31
ScottKYes please.11:32
norsettook, let me change the changelog too then11:33
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norsettoScottK: email on its way ....11:38
ScottKnorsetto: Thanks.11:40
norsettoScottK: np, hope it helps11:41
ScottKI'm sure it will.  I do OK at debian/rules, but fundamentally I'm a Python programmer, not a C programmer, so the make stuff throws me sometimes.11:41
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norsettoscottK: I asked my wife to buy me a python book for xmas ;-)11:44
norsettoscottK: I hope she understood its a book I want .....11:44
ScottKnorsetto: Depending on her tastes she probably does NOT want to visit python.com.  Python.org is the Python language site.  FYI.11:45
ScottKGotta run.  Thanks again.11:46
norsettoscottK: sure, see u tomorrow (ps. I asked for the o'reilly book, is it any good?)11:46
ScottKThere are several.  They are all good.11:47
ScottKLearning Python is a good place to start and then Python in a Nutshell for daily reference.11:47
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norsettoScottK: ok, thanks, then there is you I can flood with questions :-)11:50
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