[12:59] <TheMuso> ScottK: What needs ppc testing?
[12:59] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[01:45] <TheMuso> Any core devs around?
[01:50] <ajmitch> TheMuso: depends
[01:52] <TheMuso> ajmitch: heh. If you or anybody else is not busy, I'd *really* appreciae it if you wouldn't mind doing a no change rebuild upload for gnome-speech, to be built against the new espeak that was uploaded, and has an API change?
[02:01] <ajmitch> TheMuso: sorry, just heading out now, will be back in an hour or so :)
[02:17] <TheMuso> ajmitch: np, as I said, only if you aren't busy.
[02:58] <bddebian> Heya
[03:00] <TheMuso> Hey bddebian
[03:01] <bddebian> Hello TheMuso
[03:04] <bddebian> Hmm, who took openser off of Lucas's FTBFS list?
[03:26] <bddebian> Dang, where is everyone tonight?
[03:34] <bddebian> Why do we have octave2.1-forge and octave2.9-forge
[04:56] <ScottK> TheMuso: There's a propsed elcipse fix for ppc and lpia attached to (I think) the lpia ftbfs bug.
[04:58] <StevenK> ScottK: Hah, I say. My desk *is* messy.
[05:03] <StevenK> ScottK: Does that also remove the Depends on ecj-bootstrap-gcj?
[05:03] <bddebian> Ah two of my favorite gentlemen :-)
[05:04] <StevenK> Someone noticed me, guess it's time to bail.
[05:05] <bddebian> pfft
[05:08] <StevenK> Oh, that's a good sign in the debian/changelog.
[05:08] <StevenK>   * Made this junk work again, reluctantly remain maintainer (Closes: #423244)
[05:09] <bddebian> heh, nice one
[05:09] <bddebian> Which package is that?
[05:09] <StevenK> ikvm
[05:10] <bddebian> Ah are you working on the FTBFS list?
[05:10] <StevenK> Which has this gem:
[05:10] <StevenK> % ls -lh | tr -s ' ' | cut -d\  -f5,8 | grep gz
[05:10] <StevenK> 11M ikvm_0.34.0.2-1.diff.gz
[05:10] <StevenK> 6.0M ikvm_0.34.0.2.orig.tar.gz
[05:10] <bddebian> Hah, even better
[05:11] <StevenK> Actually, I'm looking at ikvm, so I can pull it off the NBS list.
[05:11] <StevenK> I'm seeing if it builds, so I can pester ScottK about a UVFe
[05:11] <bddebian> Lucas's list?
[05:11] <StevenK> Nope, pitti's
[05:11] <bddebian> Gah, too many damn lists :-)
[05:13] <StevenK> LaserJock: Thanks for posting the interview. :-)
[05:14] <LaserJock> no problem, thanks for answering the questions
[05:14] <StevenK> Now to just get back my lost respect.
[05:16] <TheMuso> ScottK: Ok thanks heaps. Will look in a bit.
[05:17] <StevenK> "Do the following questions, from the following pages: Chapter 18, w179"
[05:17] <StevenK> And page 179 is in chapter 4, sigh
[05:19] <bddebian> Grr, damnit
[06:22] <TheMuso> ScottK: How much disk space does eclipse require to build?
[07:18] <asisak> Good morning!
[07:21] <LaserJock> morning?
[07:22] <asisak> At least European one. :)
[07:23] <asisak> Good $TOD LaserJock
[07:34] <asisak> Hey Whoopie!
[07:34] <Whoopie> asisak: Hi!
[07:43] <LaserJock> is there anything special that needs to be done to run a .jar ?
[07:44] <asisak> java -jar file.jar
[07:44] <asisak> Or what do you mean?
[07:44] <LaserJock> well, that's a start :-)
[07:46] <StevenK> LaserJock: Usually, the .jar file will contain one or more .class files, and you need to throw the class name to java, along with the jar file.
[07:46] <asisak> Unless the application creator was clever enough to provide necessary startup information in the jar :)
[07:51] <Chris> it's part of coreutils
[07:55] <ajmitch> that was a useful comment
[07:56] <jussi01> lol
[07:57] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[07:58] <asisak> Why does REVU think that http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=223 does not need more love?
[08:01] <kagou> Good Morning :)
[08:11] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock
[08:34] <jussi01> !info csound gutsy
[08:34] <ubotu> csound: powerful and versatile sound synthesis software. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:4.23f13-1.1 (gutsy), package size 3242 kB, installed size 8008 kB (Only available for arm armeb armel hppa hurd-i386 i386 kfreebsd-i386 m32r m68k mips mipsel powerpc ppc64 s390 s390x sh3 sh3eb sh4 sh4eb sparc)
[09:25] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[09:25] <dholbach> GOOD MORNING
[09:25] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[09:25] <jussi01> is it that good a morning dholbach?
[09:25] <dholbach> jussi01: YEAH :-)
[09:26] <dholbach> how are y'all doing? :)
[09:26] <jussi01> Im doing good. and you?
[09:26] <soren> I'm out of coffee, but apart from that everything is good.
[09:26] <jussi01> (obvious one)
[09:26] <dholbach> hehe :)
[09:27] <dholbach> I'm fine thanks
[09:27] <soren> \o/
[09:27] <jussi01> lol
[09:27] <soren> runs, even.
[09:29] <jussi01> very cool.
[09:29] <StevenK> Linux MCE is .... interesting.
[09:30] <jussi01> StevenK: what is that supposed to mean...
[09:30] <StevenK> jussi01: That I think it's crap, but that everyone else is entitled to their own opinion.
[09:30] <jussi01> StevenK: ok, fair enough. can you back that up with reason?
[09:31] <StevenK> jussi01: Certainly. It doesn't support TV out sanely enough, it takes about 15 minutes to actually boot, and it wants to be in complete control of your network.
[09:32] <jussi01> StevenK: ahhh, see thats why I actually mentioned it here. I was hoping someone would tell me all the "bad stuff". :)
[09:33] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: control of your network?  how?
[09:34] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: It runs dhcpd, with no way of turning it off, and sets itself as the default gateway.
[09:35] <tonyyarusso> :S
[09:35] <jussi01> :(
[11:11] <proppy> ScottK: dholbach: I opened a separate bug for poker-network mysql installation issue
[11:11] <dholbach> proppy: ok
[11:11] <proppy> Should we continue the discution here ?
[11:11] <proppy> Bug #138836
[11:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[11:11] <dholbach> better to have it in the bug report
[11:11] <dholbach> so everybody can follow up there
[11:11] <proppy> ok
[11:12] <proppy> I also commented
[11:12] <proppy> the initial bug report
[11:12] <dholbach> great
[11:12] <proppy> which was about poker2d crashin at startup
[11:12] <proppy> Can we get the fix about the bug Released ?
[11:13] <proppy> once we have made the necessary verification
[11:13] <dholbach> can't we fix both bugs in one upload?
[11:13] <proppy> While I'm working on the second issue
[11:13] <proppy> dunno, but the bugs are not really related
[11:13] <proppy> I was sure I will be able to fix a python crash problem
[11:13] <proppy> I'm not really in the packaging thing
[11:14] <proppy> so I'm not sure I'll be able to fix the mysql problem in time
[11:14] <proppy> but at least I can work on it
[11:14] <proppy> And you're last comment is very inspiring :)
[11:15] <dholbach> hehe
[11:16] <proppy> can you forward it to the new bug
[11:16] <proppy> or do you mind if I update the description with it
[11:16] <dholbach> yeah, just update it, that'S fine
[11:22] <proppy> Installing a gutsy chroot and try to reproduce the bug
[11:22] <proppy> My guess is that the issue is the following:
[11:23] <proppy> as you've highlighted it the package does not depend upon mysql
[11:23] <proppy> It's only suggested
[11:23] <proppy> the fact is that you don't need mysql, If you answer "no" to debconf question
[11:23] <proppy> but you need it if you answer "yes"
[12:51] <proppy> dholbach: ScottK: Bug #138836 updated
[12:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[12:52] <dholbach> proppy: so with a depends on dbconfig-common it works fine?
[12:53] <proppy> I don't understand cause the depend seems here
[12:54] <dholbach> maybe it needs to be a pre-depends?
[12:54] <proppy> letme update it
[12:54] <proppy> it > the bug report
[12:55] <proppy> what is pre-depends ?
[12:55] <dholbach> super, thanks
[12:55] <dholbach> a package that needs to be installed before the installation of the other package is attempted
[12:57] <proppy> I will try Pre-depends
[12:57] <proppy> I'm not able to reproduce ScottK error anymore
[12:58] <proppy> I've to reset my chroot
[12:59] <proppy> It would be nice to be able to fork bug reproducing environment of someone else
[01:02] <geser> The Pre-Depends are already configured before the package gets installed. Depends are installed but not necessarily configured.
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> What would be an example of a time when pre-depends would be required?
[01:04] <mok0> If the preinstall script need some special binary
[01:04] <mok0> s/need/needs
[01:07] <Nafallo> dholbach: something more making the upload worthful?
[01:07] <proppy> mok0: so this one http://paste.ubuntu.com/118/
[01:08] <proppy> needs dbconfig-common as Pre-depends
[01:08] <proppy> ?
[01:10] <proppy> bug #138836 updated feel free to share your knowledge :)
[01:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[01:12] <dholbach> Nafallo: hm?
[01:19] <Nafallo> 13:23 #ubuntu-motu: < \sh> dholbach, ping bug 138225 is already in gajim bzr  ubuntu tree...nafallo is just waiting for upload
[01:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138225 in gajim "clean install of gutsy and gajim throws a gnomekeyring.DeniedError" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138225
[01:19] <Nafallo> 14:52 #ubuntu-motu: < dholbach> \sh: do you know what Nafallo is waiting for?
[01:19] <dholbach> Nafallo: oh, I thought it was good enough to go already
[01:20] <\sh> Nafallo, what could be more worthful?
[01:20] <\sh> Nafallo, give me a hint, I'll have a look and try to fix ;)
[01:21] <\sh> Nafallo, this cpu utilization problem is out of the way, I think it's a local problem on the reporters side...
[01:23] <\sh> jono, congrats to have whiprush on board...
[01:23] <\sh> jono & dholbach better to say
[01:23] <jono> \sh:  :)
[01:26] <\sh> Nafallo, bug 138528 updated with some more infos...when it's updated *wait*
[01:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138528 in gajim "gajim systray menu status changes have no effect" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138528
[01:28] <Nafallo> \sh: sorry, right now I have no time. we had a fibre break between two DCs last night...
[01:28] <Nafallo> \sh: so I did not get much sleep
[01:28] <\sh> Nafallo, I know how you feel :)
[01:35] <proppy> norsetto: hi
[01:35] <norsetto> proppy: hey proppy
[01:42] <proppy> norsetto: Nice work on poker-network
[01:42] <proppy> norsetto: I've separated the issue in two bug reports as you suggested
[01:42] <norsetto> proppy: ok, thx
[01:44] <proppy> norsetto: #bug 138836
[01:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[01:46] <norsetto> proppy: thats good, because I might not have the time to look into that this week, and next week I'm out
[01:48] <ScottK> TheMuso: Dunno how much space eclipse actually takes to build.  The tarball is 150mb.
[01:48] <slytherin> Need some help. Does every patch in debian/patches/ directory get applied automatically when I do apt-get source packagename?
[01:48] <proppy> I think, we only need to add a Pre-depends as dholbach suggested, I'm trying it right know
[01:48] <proppy> but re-building gutsy chroot again and again take a long time
[01:49] <geser> slytherin: no, that's usually done by a target in debian/rules
[01:51] <ScottK> proppy: If you read the Debian policy statements on pre-depends they seem to work pretty hard to get you to avoid it.
[01:51] <proppy> let me google this
[01:53] <ScottK> proppy: Would it be enough to test for the existence of /usr/share/dbconfig-common/dpkg/postrm.mysql and then not try to call it if it doesn't exist?
[01:54] <ScottK> dholbach: Do you have a moment for a PM?
[01:54] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[01:54] <dholbach> ScottK: sure
[01:54] <norsetto> scottK: hi scott
[01:55] <proppy> ScottK: maybe I'm trying to re-set up an environment to reproduce the bug right know
[01:55] <slytherin> geser: Ok. I am trying to debug what the issue is with nautilus-sendto package. It doesn't show pidgin as option. There seems to be more than one problem.
[01:56] <proppy> ScottK: as you pasted it in your comments, pre install Can't open /usr/share/dbconfig-common/dpkg/config.mysql either
[02:00] <ScottK> proppy: I'm not a mysql expert, so I just copy/paste that stuff.
[02:05] <proppy> ScottK: I'm not a packaging export either :)
[02:06] <ScottK> I'll go ask in #ubuntu-server if someone can help us.
[02:08] <proppy> I don't really know what the usual pratices are when depending on on a database installation
[02:08] <proppy> because the database can be on another host,
[02:08] <proppy> so you can't really hard-depends on mysql
[02:08] <dholbach> can somebody check why it was not possible to upload a new dkms package to revu? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=189)
[02:09] <proppy> I believe that's why the debian maintainer of this package use a lot of debconf dbconfig thing to ask the user about mysql configuration
[02:09] <Hobbsee> dholbach: hm?
[02:10] <Hobbsee> dholbach: there are 2 versions later than that URL
[02:10] <Hobbsee> dholbach: is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=228 not the correct one?
[02:10] <dholbach> ah ok, that's the good one
[02:10] <dholbach> fine
[02:10] <dholbach> thanks Hobbsee
[02:11] <Hobbsee> dholbach: no problem.  youd' not selected the bottom version of the fiel
[02:13] <slytherin> Where can I suggest changes to Build:Depends of a package? This is related to nautilus-sendto
[02:14] <ScottK> slytherin: What specificall (I just updated that one last week)?
[02:15] <ScottK> specifically...
[02:15] <slytherin> ScottK: I saw the changelog. The pidgin plugin is not built. Looks like you also need to add libpurple-dev to build-depends. Also the patch for replacing gaim_debug-info does not seem to be applied.
[02:16] <ScottK> I see.
[02:16] <ScottK> Do you know the changes that need to be made?
[02:16] <slytherin> ScottK: I just tried manual compilation of nautilus-sendto. It need pidgin-dev as well as libpurple-dev.
[02:17] <ScottK> The thing that is the most likely to get results is to make a revised package, file a bug in LP, attach a debdiff, and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (that package is in Main).
[02:18] <ScottK> If you don't know enough to do that, then file a bug that explains what you know.
[02:18] <ScottK> I was only interested in it because I was killing of an rdepends on sylpheed-claws so we could remove it from the archives.
[02:18] <slytherin> ScottK: I am in office. No GPG key. Also I have never used cdbs. :-( I will add information to existing bug which was reopened.
[02:18] <ScottK> OK.
[02:20] <cassidy> Hobbsee: we did 2 UVF request. One for Gabble .11 and the second for .14
[02:21] <Hobbsee> ah, right.
[02:22] <cassidy> we never requested .13 which was the sucking version (our fault)
[02:23] <ScottK> OK.
[02:23] <ScottK> Looking at the changelog diff...
[02:24] <ScottK> It looks like the Sept 5 changelog entries relate to the vcard regression.  Is that right?
[02:25] <ScottK> cassidy: ^^^
[02:25] <cassidy> seems so
[02:25] <slytherin> ScottK: If using cdbs for building package, when are patches in debian/patches actually applied?
[02:25] <ScottK> slytherin: Not sure what you mean.
[02:26] <cassidy> but other patchs are harmless, really
[02:26] <slytherin> ScottK: Leave it for now.
[02:26] <ScottK> slytherin: OK.
[02:27] <Hobbsee> bigon: there are questions for you on the  MC ML sometime, btw
[02:27] <ScottK> cassidy: From my perspective as a person that has to approve the UVFe, you had a bad release with a significant regression and so now you've fixed the regression plus other stuff.
[02:28] <ScottK> I don't know you or your project, I just know this one instance.
[02:28] <slytherin> ScottK: I have added info to bug 134945
[02:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134945 in nautilus-sendto "nautilus sendto + pidgin" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134945
[02:28] <ScottK> So I'd feel more comfortable with just fixing the regression and avoiding the other stuff.
[02:29] <ScottK> slytherin: That's probably the best you can do unless you can prepare a debdiff yourself.
[02:29] <cassidy> I understand, but I think it's extra useless work to patch current pkg just to remove some trivial patchs
[02:30] <ScottK> I can understand that perspective.
[02:30] <slytherin> ScottK: Will do in few days. :-)
[02:32] <Hobbsee> ScottK: but on balance, how many people use telepathy* at all and how many use it for the latest featuers, vs the most stable version?
[02:33] <ScottK> We are ~ a month from release.  I think it's really time to focus on getting stuff as functional as possible.
[02:33] <\sh> when is lucas doing a new universe archive rebuild?
[02:34] <Hobbsee> ScottK: true, but in the cases where we do want the latest crack, no matter the stability...
[02:34] <Hobbsee> it's more a question of whether this is one or not
[02:34] <BugMaN_away> dholbach: bug 138083, you are the maintainer, can i make new package version directly from debian version (http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome-specimen) ?
[02:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138083 in gnome-specimen "[Gutsy]  Gnome-specimen new upstream version available 0.3.1" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138083
[02:35] <Hobbsee> of course, it would be nice, if we didnt have to choose, but...
[02:36] <\sh> oh descisions what to include just before release are quite nice...you have a bug fixed with new upstream release, and 10 bugs opened with new upstream release...(regarding wine hehe)
[02:37] <Hobbsee> \sh: urg.  what's the situation with that/
[02:37] <zul> moring
[02:37] <ScottK> zul: moring
[02:37] <Hobbsee> i thought we decided a couple of releases ago that wine really shouldnt be in ubuntu
[02:37] <Hobbsee> hiya zul!
[02:38] <zul> hey Hobbsee
[02:38] <StevenK> Hobbsee: We did?
[02:38] <Hobbsee> StevenK: we certainly talked about it.
[02:38] <\sh> Hobbsee, well, I had the situation during breezy or dapper I think...I had to decide if we take new crack from wine upstream or stay with a little broken wine
[02:38] <StevenK> Then again, I can't talk, I'm running the winehq .deb's
[02:38] <Hobbsee> \sh: personally, i'd always like the latest crack w.r.t wine.
[02:38] <\sh> Hobbsee, wine is in ubuntu and will stay :)
[02:39] <ScottK> cassidy: The short version I think is that motu-uvf has 5 people and you only need to convince 2.  I'm probably not the person most likely to be converted.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> \sh: i'm assuming you'll stick wine into a ppa, and keep updating it?
[02:39] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Sill no UVFe filed for the wine package on REVU.
[02:39] <StevenK> cassidy: motu-uvf is always open for bribes. Certain people only, of course.
[02:39] <\sh> Hobbsee, nope...hopefully scott ritchie is going to be a motu and take over all this crap..
[02:40] <\sh> ScottK, forget about wine on revu...
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm happy to blanket UVFe it, if someone wants to file an exception.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> \sh: heh, i thought you were
[02:41] <\sh> Hobbsee, I did take over the wine reponsibility because I was the idiot who took sabdfls calls to include winehq wine ;)
[02:41] <Hobbsee> \sh: ahhh.  " You Poor Bastard"
[02:41] <StevenK> ScottK: Java -> .NET
[02:41] <\sh> Hobbsee, I never expected, that wine was sooo alpha these days..well, now I'm 2 years older and 2 years more wise ,-)
[02:41] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:42] <Hobbsee> \sh: yeah, i've always found it a little too tempramental
[02:42] <cassidy> ScottK: as Hobbsee said, most of telepathy users are interested in it for testing and it would be a shame if we'll have to reject all vcard related bugs from Ubuntu users because we know they are using a crap version
[02:42] <StevenK> And let's face it, wine is now two years more vintage...
[02:42] <Hobbsee> cassidy: are you guys going to fix all the bugs that are recorded against telepathy*?
[02:42] <Hobbsee> cassidy: up until release?
[02:42] <\sh> StevenK, high noon .. we will meet ,-)
[02:42] <ScottK> cassidy: Then do a patch.
[02:42] <StevenK> \sh: :-P
[02:43] <ScottK> cassidy: Threatening to ignore bugs from Ubuntu users is not the way to convince me.
[02:43] <StevenK> Or me, for that matter.
[02:43] <ScottK> cassidy: FYI, StevenK was one of the other people you had a shot at convincing.
[02:43] <\sh> but I could do a fast wine 0.9.44 upgrade and file an UVF E-report just to assign all the bugs to you
[02:44] <cassidy> Hobbsee: we are doing your best but I can't promise anything
[02:44] <Hobbsee> cassidy: of course, the quality of the packages that you end up giving us directly corresponds to the user opinion of the stability of your software
[02:45] <Hobbsee> it works both wyas there
[02:45] <Hobbsee> as in, if you say to us "please take the latest version", and it has major regressions, then that's going to have an impact on your userbase's opinions about it
[02:45] <cassidy> ScottK: I'm not threatening anyone. I just want to avoid to have to deal with useless bug reports
[02:46] <cassidy> Hobbsee: we *never* asked you to ship .13 (the broken version)...
[02:46] <ScottK> cassidy: You released it.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> cassidy: apologies, i dont follow telepathy terribly closely, so dont know the specifics
[02:47] <\sh> what about backporting the patches from .14 to .13 and fixing the bugs instead of adding new bugs with .14?
[02:47] <cassidy> yeah, and it was a mistake. We are sorry about that
[02:47] <ScottK> \sh: That's what I'm arguing for.
[02:47] <cassidy> and then we release .14 one or 2 days later to fix it
[02:47] <ScottK> Hobbsee: bigon asked for a sync from Debian.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> but, it now is obsolete code, and so any other bugs discovered in .13, that are not in .14 wont get fixe.d
[02:48] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ah, noted.  i thougth bigon was in touch with cassidy
[02:48] <Hobbsee> (and that this stuff would have been picked up on reasonably quickly)
[02:48] <ScottK> No, that's wrong.
[02:49] <ScottK> It was uploaded directly to Ubuntu.
[02:50] <Hobbsee> oh, this was the fakesync?  or this was something that never hit debian?
[02:50] <ScottK> .13 was in Debian, we just didn't get it from there.
[02:50] <bigon> ScottK: I asked a sync for the .12 release not the .13
[02:50] <ScottK> Yes.  I see that now.
[02:50] <fernando> moin all
[02:50] <ScottK> bigon: Was it you that had 13-0ubuntu1 uploaded?
[02:51] <bigon> ScottK: nop
[02:51] <ScottK> Who is Adilson Oliveira <adilson@ubuntu.com>?
[02:51] <ScottK> That's who's listed in .changes.
[02:51] <Hobbsee> ScottK: mobile guy
[02:52] <ScottK> Ah hah.
[02:52] <ScottK> Well then I'd say he can patch it.
[02:52] <Hobbsee> sec, i'll speak to him
[02:52] <ScottK> cassidy avoids useless work and we don't ship with a regression.
[02:53] <\sh> hmmm..this sounds like "He said Jehovah"
[02:54] <bigon> Hobbsee: I know cassidy personally, we were both in the same class in university
[02:54] <Hobbsee> bigon: apologies, i thought you'd asked for this request
[02:58] <proppy> dholbach: ScottK: I've splitted poker-network bug report as norsetto suggested, I'm about to post a debdiff resolving the Pre-Depends problems, should it be based on released ubuntu1, merged with norsetto's non-released-yet ubuntu2 patch (from the previous bug report), or published in a fresh new ubuntu3 ?
[02:59] <ScottK> proppy: Do one debdiff that solves both bugs and call it ubuntu2.
[02:59] <proppy> ok
[03:00] <Hobbsee> cassidy: what are you planning to introduce, in the next couple of weeks, for telepathy*?
[03:00] <bigon> Hobbsee, Scott: no problem :)
[03:00] <cassidy> Hobbsee: Which parts? There are lot of components: gabble, salut, empathy...
[03:00] <Hobbsee> cassidy: all of it, i guess.
[03:00] <pygi> ... fama :)
[03:01] <zul> wha more uvfs?
[03:01] <bigon> pygi: hehe :)
[03:01] <bigon> Hobbsee: I will answer your mail on MC, but now I need to go out
[03:01] <cassidy> Hobbsee: I'm personally working for the OLPC and are now in bug fixing mode for next release
[03:01] <Hobbsee> cassidy: just wondering if we'll get another uvfe, and if we do, how safe it will be to improve
[03:01] <Hobbsee> cassidy: right, OK
[03:02] <cassidy> Hobbsee: shouldn't be
[03:02] <Hobbsee> er, s/improve/approve/
[03:02] <Hobbsee> bigon: that's fine
[03:02] <cassidy> hopefully next gabble should have tubes support, definitely not a trivial release
[03:02] <cassidy> so Gutsy +1
[03:02] <Hobbsee> right, cool
[03:03] <cassidy> don't know plans for Empathy but I don't think it will be shipped in Gutsy either
[03:03] <cassidy> current work is refactoring + voip
[03:03] <cassidy> voip/video
[03:04] <Hobbsee> cool
[03:04] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Did you get a hold of Adilson?
[03:04] <Hobbsee> ScottK: partially, he's on the phone.
[03:04] <ScottK> OK.
[03:10] <proppy> norsetto: ping
[03:10] <norsetto> proppy: pong
[03:11] <proppy> norsetto: you said that my previous debdiff didn't apply, is this the correct command to generate one : debdiff poker-network_1.1.1-1ubuntu1.dsc poker-network_1.1.1-1ubuntu2.dsc
[03:11] <proppy> ?
[03:12] <norsetto> proppy: yes
[03:12] <proppy> ok
[03:12] <proppy> let's try again
[03:12] <norsetto> proppy: let me know where/when you upload it so I can check
[03:13] <proppy> ok
[03:19] <proppy> norsetto: #138836 #137573
[03:20] <proppy> norsetto: bug #138836 bug #137573
[03:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[03:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137573
[03:22] <proppy> debdiff uploaded
[03:26] <norsetto> proppy: the one in bug 137573 applies correctly and debuild produces a correct .dsc; didn't check it with pbuilder though
[03:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137573
[03:27] <proppy> ok thanks
[03:27] <Hobbsee> dholbach: ping
[03:27] <dholbach> Hobbsee: pong
[03:28] <proppy> ScottK: dholbach: Feel free to review bug #138836 and bug #137573 when you're are available
[03:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138836 in poker-network "poker-network mysql installation issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[03:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137573
[03:28] <dholbach> proppy: it installs fine in a chroot now?
[03:29] <proppy> yep, if you install required dependencies when dpkg ask to
[03:29] <proppy> and answer no to mysql related question it does installs fine
[03:29] <proppy> Let me try another time :)
[03:31] <proppy> Is there a way to install only the dependencies of one package ?
[03:31] <proppy> or should I grep control ?
[03:33] <dholbach> congratulations bluekuja
[03:34] <Hobbsee> ScottK: StevenK zul soren ping
[03:35] <zul> Hobbsee: yessssss
[03:35] <proppy> dholbach: dpkg -i *.deb now produce http://paste.ubuntu.com/121/ instead of http://paste.ubuntu.com/118/
[03:36] <Hobbsee> zul: right, there's one
[03:36] <dholbach> proppy: right
[03:37] <proppy> then apt-get -f install
[03:37] <proppy> install missing dbconfig-common
[03:38] <proppy> and then dpkg -i *.deb install poker-web correctly if you answer "No" to database related debconf questions
[03:38] <proppy> (which are not the default answers)
[03:41] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> right, now we have 2
[03:42] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Hum?
[03:43] <proppy> dholbach: You still have to provide mysql information somehow, for the package to be fully functionnal, but at least now, it does output debconf human readable message, instead of a dpkg criptic error message.
[03:45] <ScottK> Hobbsee: What's up?
[03:46] <ScottK> proppy: It's better to get the installation finished with some additional configuration required than to end up in an unistallable state.
[03:46] <Hobbsee> ScottK: StevenK zul right.
[03:47] <Hobbsee> i've now found the cause of the mess.
[03:48] <Hobbsee> currently, we have exceptions for:  ubuntustudio-affecting packages, mythbuntu-affecting packages, and we also have one for Ubuntu Mobile packages (which i accepted, and forgot to mention here, i think.  sorry!)
[03:48] <ScottK> We do?
[03:48] <Hobbsee> yes
[03:48] <Hobbsee> the first two were covered in the recent MOTU meeting
[03:48] <Hobbsee> one of the meetings recently, anywya
[03:49] <ScottK> The ubuntustdio and mythbuntu ones were for meta packages that didn't affect Ubuntu, not for regular packages.
[03:49] <ScottK> Right.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> correct.  ie, stuff that doesnt affect anything else, but the subprojects
[03:49] <Hobbsee> the telepathy-gabble is part of mobile stuff as well, so that's why it got uploaded without a uvfe.
[03:50] <Hobbsee> i have asked the people who made the packages, and who uploaded it to be more careful about checking for bugs afterwards
[03:50] <ScottK> So what does this UME magic wand cover?
[03:50] <Hobbsee> "if you want to upload something during a freeze, you should really be checking for bugs created as a result of your uploads.  if you dont have time, then you need to make sure someone else looks at them."
[03:50] <Hobbsee> "you are listed as the uploader, so you are the last point of contact"
[03:51] <Hobbsee> not much, most of it is in main.
[03:51] <ScottK> The telepathy pacakges are not in the catagory of stuff we waived for ubuntustudio and mythbuntu.
[03:51] <ScottK> Where is this documented?
[03:51] <proppy> ScottK: That's what debconf suggest, if you choose to "ignore" mysql configuration
[03:52] <ScottK> proppy: OK.  Last time I never even got the debconf question, so this sounds like an improvement.
[03:53] <Hobbsee> apparently there are around 20 packages in universe covered by the UME UVFe
[03:53] <ScottK> Where is this UVFe?
[03:53] <proppy> ScottK: yep adding dbconfig-common Pre-Depends unlocked the debconf stage
[03:53] <ScottK> proppy: Good.
[03:53] <Hobbsee> including telepathy-*, moblin-*, any ume-config packages, bluez-* (within reason, since it touches -desktop too), also, tasks, dates, contacts
[03:53] <norsetto> linux-headers-generic doesn't exist on sparc, powerpc, lpia and ia64; will it ever?
[03:54] <ScottK> Hobbsee: What are you reading from?
[03:54] <zul> norsetto: you should check the kernel.ubuntu.com git to get a better idea
[03:54] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that in particular was a query with mithrandir.
[03:54] <norsetto> zul: right
[03:54] <ScottK> Hobbsee: So there is actual UVFe documented?
[03:55] <ScottK> is/is no
[03:55] <zul> Hobbsee: can we get a list as well?
[03:55] <Hobbsee> ScottK: not publically.  i do have logs of it
[03:55] <Hobbsee> zul: of?
[03:55] <zul> which ones are covered by ume
[03:56] <Hobbsee> zul: the list above was it, although a couple may be missed there.
[03:56] <zul> ok
[03:56] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Where is the "Must get a UVFe except when it's inconvenient for some core-dev" rule documented?
[03:57] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that rule doesnt exit.
[03:57] <Hobbsee> er, exist
[03:58] <ScottK> If there are secret handshake deals that make the exercise moot.
[03:58] <ScottK> Why bother?
[03:59] <Hobbsee> i dont think it is that way
[03:59] <ScottK> That's certainly what it sounds like.
[03:59] <geser> @motu-uvf: what are the chances to get an UVFe for firebird2.0 based on this changelog http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/f/firebird2.0/current/changelog ?
[03:59] <ScottK> UME wanted stuff and decided they got a special exception to the rules.
[03:59] <Hobbsee> but there are certain packages that we need to have the latest of, as companies develop off those
[04:00] <Hobbsee> ScottK: the main section was accepted by the ubuntu release team.  i didnt see a reason why the universe version would nto be, on that basis.
[04:00] <ScottK> Then there is a process to go through and people who are supposed to make a judgement about it.
[04:01] <Frogzoo> the ubuntu linux-source builds a package for me called kernel-image_2.6... - how to get the build to call the deb linux-image_2.6...?
[04:01] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Right.  So I sit here and argue about a UVFe for a package that has a blanket waiver I know nothing about.
[04:02] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i've already apologised for not telling you about it, because i forgot, and because i didnt realise that it must have been part of the mobile stuff, until i saw the uploader.
[04:02] <Hobbsee> it did go through the judgement process - hte ubuntu release team accepted it for main.  is it not likely that what holds for main also holds for universe?
[04:03] <Hobbsee> i'm somewhat surprised that this is even coming up - that universe has a stricter QA control than main?
[04:03] <zul> it doesnt
[04:03] <ScottK> It's not a question about stricter QA, it's a question of who's decision it is to make.
[04:03] <ScottK> If someone had said, "We need X universe packages for UME and we'll fix what we break", I'm sure it'd have been fine.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> are you really going to make a decision that a group can have a blanket UVFe for main, and not for universe?
[04:04] <ScottK> The point is that there is no UVFe at this point, just UME devs uploading stuff.
[04:05] <StevenK> I can see Hobbsee's point, but I can also see ScottK's point.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> or that there is, from the ubuntu release team for the entire archive, and i forgot to tell you.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> i can see ScottK's side here too
[04:07] <zul> it probably does
[04:07] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:07] <ScottK> I'd like to at least be informed.
[04:07] <Fujitsu> They do, but probably shouldn't be overriding things like this. At least trying to go through the process would be nice.
[04:08] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they did - i acked it.  i then forgot to communicate it, unfortunately.
[04:08] <dholbach> TheMuso: did you register ubuntu-dev-tools (upstream product)?
[04:08] <Fujitsu> Doesn't a UVFe require two acks?
[04:08] <dholbach> TheMuso: if so, can you make 'motu' the maintainer?
[04:08] <Hobbsee> it was more of a "oh, and by the way, we're presuming that you guys wont have a major problem with extending this uvfe to universe"
[04:08] <Fujitsu> Or am I out of date?
[04:08] <ScottK> Fujitsu: That's what we've been doing.
[04:09] <ScottK> That was my next question for Hobbsee.
[04:09] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: if the URT trumps motu-uvf, it had 2 acks - one from me, and one from the guy who proposed it.  the fact that neither of us actually remembered to convey it outside of that conversation is regrettable.
[04:11] <ScottK> Hobbsee: This isn't helping my motivation.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> i realise that.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> what do you honestly expect me to do?
[04:11] <ScottK> I'm not sure.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> i cant go back in time, and make sure that change was broadcast.
[04:12] <ScottK> Understand.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> by all means, you can continue to blast me - but it doesnt really help you, except for getting your anger out.
[04:12] <ScottK> How about file a bug that documents it.
[04:13] <bddebian> That reminds me.  Are we supposed to somehow identify that a sync request is just a revision bump not a new version?
[04:14] <ScottK> If it's just a revision, just file it as normal to the archive.
[04:14] <norsetto> bddebian: now I understand why you said good luck with rutilt yesterday
[04:14] <ScottK> If it's a new version, subscribe motu-uvf instead.
[04:14] <bddebian> norsetto: :-)
[04:14] <geser> hi bddebian
[04:14] <bddebian> ScottK: OK, just wanted to make sure because they have processed one of my removal requests but none of my sync requests.
[04:14] <bddebian> Hi geser
[04:14] <zul> norsetto: why do you need the kernel headers for rutilt why not use linux-libc-dev?
[04:15] <norsetto> bddebian: didn't know there was already a package that failed build; in any case, mine builds ok :-)
[04:15] <norsetto> zul: let me check
[04:15] <bddebian> norsetto: Awesome
[04:16] <Hobbsee> ScottK: bugs get lost.
[04:16] <ScottK> So that's a no?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> and as you may have noticed, irc is not a reliable way either, as not everyone is here.
[04:16] <Hobbsee> i didnt say that.
[04:17] <ScottK> What do you suggest then?
[04:17] <Hobbsee> i'm thinking about that.
[04:17] <Hobbsee> private email works, but it's not public.
[04:20] <norsetto> zul: would that fix also the ftbfs on sparc, lpia and ia64?
[04:21] <zul> probably
[04:21] <geser> Hobbsee, ScottK, zul: what are the chances to get an UVFe for firebird2.0 based on this changelog http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/f/firebird2.0/current/changelog ?
[04:21] <norsetto> zul: ok, if you sponsor it I will upload a fix :-)
[04:22] <zul> norsetto: has it been reviewed? beside it might not get to gutsy for some reason
[04:22] <zul> geser: i would say pretty good
[04:22] <ScottK> geser: How many of those CVEs are open in the current Ubuntu version?
[04:22] <norsetto> zul: its in gutsy already; this would be a bug fix only
[04:22] <geser> !info firebird2.0-clasic gutsy
[04:23] <geser> !info firebird2.0-classic gutsy
[04:23] <Hobbsee>  firebird2.0  (2.0.1.12855.ds1-7) unstable; urgency=low is current
[04:23] <zul> if you subscribe uus then it could possible get done tonight
[04:24] <ScottK> geser: I'd say file the UVFe.
[04:25] <norsetto> zul: filing the bug right now
[04:26] <zul> ok
[04:33] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Having thought about it a bit, I think that if there is an urgent issue that Ubuntu RM needs to resolve, they certainly have the right and responsibility to act even if a Universe UVFe is technically required.  I believe that in other situations that the Ubuntu RM ought to respect the community processes for Universe.  Does that sound reasonable?
[04:34] <bddebian> Ubuntu RM?
[04:34] <ScottK> Release Manager
[04:34] <bddebian> geser: Did you happen to remove openser from Lucas's list?
[04:34] <bddebian> ScottK: Ah
[04:36] <\sh> bddebian, what's up with openser?
[04:36] <geser> bddebian: no, it's still listed
[04:36] <bddebian> It needs some work because of some API changes in the new xmlrpc-c
[04:36] <bddebian> geser: Hmm, I swore it wasn't there last night.. Weird
[04:37] <StevenK> ScottK: Agreed.
[04:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: a) in that, you assume that the release team is all canonical people.  it isnt.
[04:39] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I don't think I assume that.
[04:40] <Hobbsee> b) so, you're saying that the URT could accept an immediate upload for universe, as it was urgent, but after that they they wouldnt be able to upload again?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> you do, implicitly, by calling it community processes
[04:41] <ScottK> RM has non-Canonical participation, but it is not a community process.
[04:41] <ScottK> The community doesn't vote for RM.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> this is true, most people are not interested in it.
[04:42] <Hobbsee> of course, then you get into discussions about "are the canonical people community members too, and if so, and they created the processes, does that make them community processes too?", but i'm happy to leave that one alone.
[04:43] <ScottK> I agree with you that RM may trump mot-uvf.  The question is when they should.
[04:43] <ScottK> mot/motu
[04:44] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[04:44] <ScottK> I would say that unless there is an urgent need, they should not.
[04:45] <\sh> I thought Canonical can always overrule any processe, without asking anyone
[04:45] <ScottK> \sh: Sure.  They can.  They question is should they and how grumpy should I be about it.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> \sh: i think you have to remember tha tthey are still a bunch of people, and arent about to screw others over jsut for the sake of doing so.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: actually, they cant overrule major proceedures - the TB, CC, etc arent canonical-only, nor are they canonical-majorities, i believe
[04:47] <Mithrandir> but sabdfl can overrule any of those.
[04:47] <Hobbsee> oh, point.
[04:47] <bddebian> \sh: Wanna fix openser for me, it's kicking my arse ;-)
[04:48] <ScottK> Hobbsee: At this point the main thing I think is to document this UME handwave UVFe so we all at least know what the ground rules are.
[04:49] <Mithrandir> it's not particular to universe or main, though, just like the gnome blanket exception isn't either.
[04:50] <Mithrandir> GNOME stuff has a standing UVFe.
[04:50] <Mithrandir> and has at least had since the summer of 2004
[04:50] <ScottK> OK.
[04:50] <ScottK> Before my time.
[04:50] <shriphani> umm how do I help with packaging ?
[04:51] <\sh> Hobbsee, I have a different view...regarding Ubuntu, Canonical and earning money with it...
[04:51] <Mithrandir> however, since the UME exception isn't an universe- or main-specific exception, I believe it's firmly in the release team's territory.  However it should have told motu-uvf about it.
[04:51] <\sh> Hobbsee, so for me it's ok, if someone is uploading packages to the archives without going the normal process
[04:52] <\sh> bddebian, I had a look at openser last week...that's why I don't touch it ;)
[04:52] <bddebian> Hehe
[04:53] <ScottK> Mithrandir: So it's your position that any exception that is not Universe specific is up to the release team?
[04:55] <Mithrandir> ScottK: it's my position that in deciding distro-wide matters pertaining to a release, the release team would be the team that could grant exceptions, etc, yes.
[04:55] <Mithrandir> (unless it's a techboard matter or similar, of course.)
[04:56] <ScottK> OK.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> else it may as well be called the acting-but-not-really-doing-anything Release Team
[04:56] <ScottK> How are these release team exceptions documented?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: which, presumably, the mobile exception falls under
[04:57] <Mithrandir> at the moment, they're not, which is probably something somebody should do something about.
[04:57] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: yes, I would say so.
[04:57] <Mithrandir> that ubuntu-mobile currently is mostly in universe is mostly because nobody has written the MIRs yet.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> right
[04:58] <StevenK> I suspecting that will change before release?
[04:58] <Mithrandir> StevenK: that's a goal, yes.
[04:59] <Mithrandir> but I'd rather actually do the MIRs than just talking to pitti and getting him to mass-approve it.
[05:00] <Mithrandir> though, we haven't yet decided completely what 7.10 should look like from an UME PoV.  It might just be mostly a useful development snapshot rather than something usable for end-users.
[05:00] <StevenK> dholbach: Can I remove the full stop from the description of u-d-t?
[05:01] <StevenK> dholbach: The title in Firefox is "Useful tools for Ubuntu developers. in Launchpad - Mozilla Firefox"
[05:02] <dholbach> StevenK: sure
[05:02] <dholbach> StevenK: can you change the maintainer of ubuntu-dev-tools in LP to 'motu'?
[05:02] <dholbach> I didn't find the right knob for that
[05:03] <StevenK> I can't even find the right knob to remove the full stop
[05:03] <dholbach> I think it's because themuso registered it
[05:03] <dholbach> somebody has the full control over it and should give it to 'motu'
[05:04] <StevenK> TheMuso: Can you please remove the full stop from the description of ubuntu-dev-tools, and hand over control of it to motu?
[05:14] <StevenK> dholbach: u-d-t commited and pushed
[05:14] <dholbach> StevenK: ROCK!
[05:14] <StevenK> Oh, drat.
[05:17] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I'd appreciate it if you would get with Mithrandir and document however you decide is best the release team exceptions that exist.  Until that's done, I really don't know what to consider saying no to.
[05:17] <norsetto> StevenK: HEAVY ROCK!
[05:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK: fair enough.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK: but the physics assignment takes precedence, and tonight's discussion hasnt really helped that
[05:21] <ScottK> Understand.
[05:21] <bddebian> do be do be doooo
[05:23] <Hobbsee> so, if ubuntu stuff becomes unproductive and/or unpleasant, that's likely to be the first thing that i'll stop doing.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> so, see you.  i'm off to do this physics assignment.
[05:24] <StevenK> Hobbsee: But uni's been unpleasant for weeks now .... :-P
[05:24] <Hobbsee> true that
[05:25] <Hobbsee> nor am i bound to get stuff done in certain timeframes
[05:25] <Hobbsee> nor do i particularly appreciate infinitums (?).
[05:26] <StevenK> infinitum is infinity in Latin, I suspect she means ultimatium.
[05:30] <Mithrandir> ScottK: people shouldn't be filing exception requests for things that have standing exceptions, so if anybody did, I apologise for that.
[05:30] <StevenK> dholbach, norsetto: devscripts and u-d-t uploaded.
[05:32] <ScottK> Mithrandir: That's what happened on some telepathy packages and neither the upstream, the requestor, nor motu-uvf knew there was an exception.
[05:32] <Mithrandir> upstream shouldn't ever need to know.
[05:32] <ScottK> Right, just saying.
[05:33] <dholbach> StevenK: thanks a lot
[05:33] <\sh> Mithrandir, I thought gnome has always those exceptions...and that is known to anyone, just because gnome has at least the same release time cycle
[05:33] <ScottK> Mithrandir: The problem here is that the person requesting the exception was a MOTU hopeful interested in Telepathy.  Not anyone working (AFAIK) on UME.
[05:35] <Mithrandir> \sh: yes, and telepathy is part of gnome-mobile, which UME builds on.
[05:37] <\sh> Mithrandir, so everything is fine, no discussion needed :)
[05:37] <Mithrandir> ScottK: this just looks like a honest mistake to me and while it has uncovered some bits we should take care of, it doesn't appear to be a big deal to me.
[05:39] <ScottK> Mithrandir: No problem.  I'm just going to leave UVFe's alone until I know what the exceptions are so I don't waste my time again.
[05:40] <Mithrandir> sure, just saying that having it documented doesn't automatically fix the problem
[05:41] <Mithrandir> oh well.  Dogwalk. :-)
[05:44] <ScottK> Mithrandir: Having it documented is a great step forward from (from the perspective of motu-uvf) having some unknown set of packages for which an exception exists.
[06:50] <dholbach> see you tomorrow, guys!
[06:51] <bddebian> Later dholbach
[06:51] <bddebian> Gah, WTF is up with the wiki?
[06:53] <dholbach> bddebian: what do you mean?
[06:54] <bddebian> I'm logging on a new PC and it's trying to save my preferences and it just keeps loading... :-(
[06:56] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[07:02] <bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
[07:02] <DarkSun88> Hi bddebian, how are you?
[07:02] <bddebian> OK thanks, yourself?
[07:03] <DarkSun88> Well, thanks.
[07:04] <norsetto> zul: still around? I have an answer to your question on bug 138904. Is there any way for me to check beforehand?
[07:08] <zul> possibly get access to something like a ppc and test it?
[07:24] <norsetto> anyone around with a spare ppc?
[08:07] <geser> bigon: do you know if other pam modules would also benefit from a rebuild with pam 0.99?
[08:08] <bigon> geser: no sorry, I don't
[08:09] <zul> geser: better ask keescook
[08:27] <mdomsch> greetings, I'm having a packaging problem I hope someone can help me with
[08:27] <mdomsch> I'm packaging DKMS, it's in REVU already
[08:27] <mdomsch> the deb contains two files, /etc/kernel/{prerm,postinst}.d/dkms
[08:27] <Baby> what's DKMS? :)
[08:28] <zul> hi mdomsch
[08:28] <mdomsch> which are present in the deb per dpkg-deb -c
[08:29] <mdomsch> however, after the install with 'dpkg -i', they aren't on the file system
[08:29] <mdomsch> Baby, "Dynamic Kernel Module Support" - http://linux.dell.com/dkms
[08:29] <mdomsch> zul, greets
[08:30] <mdomsch> I've been looking for a few hours trying to see why those two files (and only those two that I can tell) aren't getting laid down on the fs
[08:30] <zul> mdomsch: i can have a look in a little bit
[08:31] <mdomsch> zul, I'd appreciate it
[08:32] <mdomsch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=228 is new enough to demonstrate the problem
[08:34] <keescook> geser: they might, but afaiu, only modules that use newer interfaces would benefit.
[08:34] <keescook> (and which those are, I'm not sure.)
[08:41] <geser> keescook: should they all still be rebuild or only those where we know that they benefit? this way one could test if they still build with the new pam
[08:42] <keescook> geser: they should all still rebuild (since the "old" library calls are still all supported).  It wouldn't hurt to test-build them, but requiring a rebuild shouldn't be needed.
[08:42] <geser> ok
[08:44] <geser> keescook: is there any easy way to check if a pam module also supports the newer interfaces and would benefit from a rebuild?
[08:45] <Whoopie> keescook: thanks a lot for updating PAM. now, some out-of-Ubuntu PAM modules can be built successfully.
[08:45] <keescook> geser: the only way I know of is to look at the source and see if it explicitly tests for the 0.99 version.
[08:45] <keescook> Whoopie: you're welcome, though Debian deserves the credit.  ;)
[08:45] <Whoopie> keescook: ok, thanks Debian. ;)
[08:46] <keescook> :)
[08:48] <Baby> :)
[08:49] <Whoopie> but seriously, looking at the changelog, this was not an easy task.
[09:00] <Ursinha> hi all
[09:07] <geser> bigon: do you know what's the difference between libpam-keyring and libpam-gnome-keyring? From the description they seem to do the same.
[09:09] <bigon> geser: libpam-gnome-keyring comes from the gnome-keyring project, libpam-keyring was written by a 3rd party developer, I will ask the removing of libpam-keyring for gutsy+1 (i'm the debian maintainer if it)
[09:10] <Nafallo> bigon: why not now?
[09:11] <bigon> Nafallo: because we are in feature freeze? I'm not it can be done so late in the dev process
[09:12] <bigon> sure*
[09:12] <Nafallo> hmm, is it a feature to not have that package then?
[09:20] <\sh> bigon, when I'm correct, there is no package which depends on libpam-keyring, right?
[09:20] <bigon> \sh: right
[09:20] <\sh> bigon, so using libpam-gnome-keyring will be  the better alternative then libpam-keyring, file a removal request with all rational...and then it's ok...
[09:21] <\sh> removing something which is not needed by anything is not a feature
[09:21] <bigon> \sh: ok
[09:21] <\sh> bigon, you are the debian maintainer, so you need to be sure it's the best thing we can do
[09:22] <bigon> \sh: well upstream seems dead and nobody has ever made an audit... and the gnome-keyring pam module seems to do this way better..
[09:23] <\sh> bigon, so file a removal request..we don't need dead sources ,-)
[09:23] <geser> \sh: we have already enough? :)
[09:24] <alvinc> \sh:  have you been in touch with siretart regarding FAI in the last week?
[09:24] <\sh> alvinc, nope..he didn't ping me
[09:25] <\sh> geser, I think so, when I see lucas list of brokeness
[09:28] <alvinc> \sh:  I was hoping to work on FAI a bit.  The version in feisty kicks out quite a few errors, most of which look pretty easy to resolve
[09:29] <\sh> re
[09:29] <\sh> alvinc, do you have a short list of errors? :)
[09:29] <alvinc> \sh:  I am hoping to migrate my workplace over to Ubuntu from the other distros we have in-house.  For this I need FAI to work cleanly.
[09:30] <alvinc> \sh:  Oh, quite a few.  :)  Portmapper hangs on startup, one of the scripts is kicking errors with "[" in the stderr log (usually indicative of running /bin/sh on a bash script) and other seemingly simple things
[09:30] <alvinc> \sh:  I was thinking to pull down the latest FAI and build it out.  But if I do that, then I think I should contribute it back.
[09:31] <alvinc> \sh:  I'd rather not be making a lot of site-specific hacks and such
[09:31] <\sh> alvinc, ugg...portmapper has nothing to do with FAI, it's just a depends for the later nfs import of nfsroot on the clients...so portmapper is something strange
[09:31] <alvinc> \sh:  Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well
[09:32] <alvinc> \sh:  NFS protocol junk.  Still, some comments in the /etc/fai/*.conf files might be useful.  :)
[09:33] <\sh> alvinc, about portmap...do you see the hang up when you setup a normal nfs server  and mount some nfsshares from a client?
[09:33] <alvinc> no sir, I don't
[09:33] <alvinc> nfs-kernel-server and fai-quickstart is all
[09:33] <\sh> alvinc, Edubuntu (say ogra) are using NFS extensivly afaik
[09:34] <siretart> alvinc: sorry, I haven't done a lot of fai work this weekend either. :(
[09:34] <siretart> I hope I get to that this week
[09:34] <alvinc> \sh:  nod.  i was hoping to work on it with you guys?
[09:35] <alvinc> \sh:  I need a motu mentor too, by the way.  :)
[09:35] <\sh> alvinc, /me is just a contributor as you...:)
[09:35] <norsetto> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ubuntu-dev-tools_0.5_all.deb
[09:35] <norsetto> trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/requestsync', which is also in package devscripts
[09:35] <norsetto> anyone working on this?
[09:37] <bigon> is someone could confirm this bug #138964 (and subscribe archive admin)
[09:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138964 in pam-keyring "Please remove pam-keyring from the archive" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138964
[09:38] <\sh> alvinc, so try to setup a plain normal nfs server with some exports, and do some nfs mounts from a client...
[09:38] <\sh> alvinc, u should use udp ;) which is the default
[09:38] <alvinc> \sh and siretart:  Is there a Launchpad team for FAI?
[09:38] <\sh> alvinc, nope..fai team is on irc.debian.org #fai :)
[09:38] <alvinc> \sh:  confirming the behaviour now, stand by
[09:39] <\sh> alvinc, thomas lange (aka MrFai) is always happy when people come by to support fai :)
[09:39] <alvinc> \sh:  how is the collaboration between debian and ubuntu on FAI?  pretty tight?
[09:40] <alvinc> \sh:  the behaviours between the two aren't the same, you see.  The same version of FAI on etch using a feisty mirror works cleanly.  That version on feisty gives...  errors.  :)
[09:40] <\sh> alvinc, regarding siretart and me (I'm using FAI at work extensively) very good :)
[09:40] <alvinc> \sh:  lol!
[09:41] <alvinc> \sh:  I want to migrate our platforms off of ks/anaconda/fedora to fai/ubuntu
[09:41] <\sh> alvinc, I know the fai maintainer personally and well, we do a lot together regarding fai :)
[09:41] <alvinc> \sh:  the ability to manage local repositories is a huge win, i think
[09:41] <\sh> alvinc, why not fedora with fai?
[09:41] <alvinc> \sh:  i don't like yum.  :)
[09:42] <\sh> alvinc, so use smart :)
[09:42] <alvinc> \sh:  you're the second person today who has mentioned that to me.  i really need to check it out.  rofl
[09:42] <\sh> alvinc, I'm installing sles9 and ubuntu with fai at work...it's nice :)
[09:43] <siretart> alvinc: not yet. we could create one, though
[09:43] <alvinc> \sh:  if i could get ubuntu, centos, and fedora to all use fai...  that could be a good thing
[09:43] <alvinc> siretart:  i think that would be really cool
[09:43] <siretart> \sh: would you join a fai team as well?
[09:43] <siretart> \sh: the team would be mainly for code branches and ppa
[09:44] <\sh> siretart, if we get thomas to work as well, what I don't think he is doing, why not...
[09:44] <Nafallo> yum install apt-get? ;-)
[09:44] <Ursinha> Nafallo, hahahahaahh :)
[09:45] <Nafallo> Ursinha: does work! :-)
[09:45] <\sh> siretart, when we push our changes directly to thomas, he's glad to add them in debian, too...you know that :)
[09:45] <Ursinha> Nafallo, i know! have done this once :p
[09:45] <siretart> \sh: err, yes. indeed
[09:45] <siretart> \sh: so you don't think we'd need a launchpad team?
[09:46] <\sh> siretart, honestly no...and regarding ubuntus way of not using fai or supporting it, there is no need...
[09:46] <Nafallo> siretart: ask maswan if he would join in that case ;-)
[09:46] <alvinc> \sh:  i wonder how to change that perception.....
[09:46] <alvinc> \sh:  i know some guys who might work on it
[09:46] <\sh> alvinc, fai is very special...and not many people are using or working with fai...only the hardcore people ;)
[09:47] <\sh> like maswan or siretart or some xen experts
[09:47] <alvinc> \sh:  i'm honestly kind of surprised at that
[09:47] <alvinc> \sh:  the beauty of kickstart, i think, is that it can be complete http based.  but it's sloppier by far, from what i have noticed
[09:47] <siretart> alvinc: you seriously think a lp group would make the guys you are talking about work on fai for ubuntu?
[09:47] <\sh> alvinc, you know, people are tired of learning shell and perl...I'm the only one in my company who is doing fai and can read shell and perl perfectly :)
[09:48] <alvinc> siretart:  i'm sending a couple of guys some e-mail right now.  :)
[09:48] <siretart> great!
[09:49] <alvinc> \sh:  around my area, shell and perl are a must
[09:49] <alvinc> \sh:  but then, i'm in silicon valley
[09:49] <\sh> alvinc, fai is very canonical, regarding support of distros...you can do what every you want withit, when you know how...and regarding the situation of documentation, it's very difficult to know what you can do with fai
[09:50] <alvinc> \sh:  i had noticed that.  i think there would be value in cleaning up those parts
[09:50] <alvinc> \sh:  not everyone likes to look at changelists or disassemble big scripts
[09:51] <alvinc> \sh:  Although, honestly, Solaris Jumpstart had the same problem at the beginning
[09:51] <alvinc> \sh:  But the value of it caught on
[09:51] <alvinc> \sh:  a lot of companies in my area really want automatic provisioning
[09:51] <\sh> alvinc, ah.....thomas used fai to guide jumpstart ;)
[09:52] <alvinc> \sh:  lol.  I thought I saw some similarities.  :)
[09:52] <alvinc> \sh:  I wrote the Jumpstart examples in the Solaris Implementation textbook, back in 1993
[09:53] <alvinc> \sh:  oops.  it was published in 95.  but we did it in 93.  http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-Implementation-Guide-System-Administrators/dp/0133533506/ref=sr_1_1/103-0834914-3295800?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189540384&sr=1-1
[09:55] <\sh> alvinc, but seriously, fai is just one stone of the wall to deal with in a datacenter environment...Thomas is always telling the people: "Just install FAI and plug your install clients in, it works" which is mostly correct, but for big datacenter environments you want "ITIL" ;) and some of the things ITIL needs is a CMDB and this cmdb can be filed and used with and by FAI...
[09:56] <\sh> s/filed/filled/
[09:56] <alvinc> \sh:  i'm not up on ITIL, honestly.  but integration with change management db doesn't sound too hard to me
[09:56] <alvinc> \sh:  just need to pretty-fy some things, i think
[09:57] <alvinc> \sh:  custom kickstarts are a huge horrid mess to sift through
[09:57] <alvinc> \sh:  FAI has a structure, which lends well to version control (cmdb stuff again)
[09:57] <alvinc> \sh:  we were able to deploy entire environments, with the FAI configs being part and parcel of each software release
[09:58] <alvinc> \sh:  if your company makes deb packages, that is
[09:58] <alvinc> \sh:  we generated both deb and rpm
[09:58] <alvinc> \sh:  the FAI method was much cleaner in use than the kickstart method
[09:58] <alvinc> \sh:  although FAI had a bigger learning curve, due to the availability of GUI-based kickstart things
[09:58] <alvinc> \sh:  But still, kickstart was a pain to do with vi.  :)
[09:59] <\sh> alvinc, as I said,I'm using fai for ubuntu (which is easy) and sles9...for sles9 and ubuntu packages I'm using opensuse buildservice sourcecode and build packages which are automatically synced in our package repositories (rpm-md for rpm packages, and apt repos for debian/ubuntu)...and using the cmdb to get all the data for the machine I need by installtime :)
[10:00] <alvinc> \sh:  what's your opinion of pros and cons of rpm/yum versus deb/apt?
[10:00] <alvinc> \sh:  i have to admit, i am pretty biased toward apt
[10:02] <\sh> alvinc, I'm pragmatic guy..what works is being used..
[10:02] <\sh> alvinc, for rpm based distros I'm using yum or smart, because it just works..I want to deliver packages from http-services, have rpm-md repo, voila...
[10:03] <\sh> alvinc, apt4rpm didn't work for me, because it couldn't be compiled on our sles9..
[10:03] <alvinc> \sh:  nod.  But you support both methods at your shop, right?  Which is easier to administer, and which is easier to use?
[10:03] <\sh> alvinc, well, using the opensuse buildservice there is no work anymore :)
[10:04] <\sh> alvinc, opensuse build service can create all types of repos you need, for debian packages it creates apt-gettable repos, for rpm based, you decide what you want, rpm-md or  zypper(yast) repos
[10:04] <\sh> alvinc, and when you don't use the buildservice inhouse, a rpm-md repo is just a "createrepo" call away..
[10:05] <\sh> alvinc, most of the time it's easier to create the rpm repos, then the debian repos
[10:05] <\sh> alvinc, regarding source package building (means debian/ dir creation and filling in, and rpm spec file writing) it's something a good admin should know how to do it..
[10:06] <alvinc> \sh:  honestly, i have built more rpms myself than debs
[10:07] <alvinc> \sh:  but i'm definitely become a huge fan of apt
[10:08] <\sh> alvinc, I don't make any difference anymore...I packaged for redhat when I worked there, I packaged for debian for my private opensource tools and I'm packaging for opensuse some packages and I'm packaging for ubuntu in general...
[10:10] <\sh> alvinc, actually I'm a prostitute of the IT business...that's our common saying in our company...we do what we need to do, at least we get money for it :)
[10:10] <alvinc> \sh:  nod.  i am hoping to convert our business to a packaging method, rather than bombing tarballs on machines
[10:11] <\sh> alvinc, if you care about fai in ubuntu or in general, please join #fai@irc.debian.org :) I'm happy to see you there :)
[10:11] <alvinc> :)
[10:12] <alvinc> \sh:  !!!!!
[10:12] <alvinc> just kidding
[10:12] <\sh> she'll kill me, when I'm not doing my housework :)
[10:40] <proppy> hi
[10:43] <jussi01> hi proppy
[10:43] <norsetto> hello proppy
[10:46] <proppy> norsetto: I was wondering, since I saw you working (great) on poker-network bugs
[10:47] <proppy> norsetto: do you review bugs like these on a daily basis ?
[10:48] <norsetto> proppy: all the people here do
[10:48] <proppy> nice
[10:49] <proppy> just to know about the process,
[10:49] <proppy> did you choose this bug by yourself, or were you kinda assigned to it
[10:49] <proppy> ?
[10:49] <norsetto> proppy: well, that was a mix really :-)
[10:50] <norsetto> proppy: most of the people here are volunteers, they choose to do what they want mainly
[10:50] <ScottK> proppy: Virtually all of us here are volunteers and not paid for this, so it's pretty much work on what you feel like.  It's hard to order volunteers around.
[10:51] <norsetto> proppy: not that scottK is not trying hard .....
[10:51] <proppy> :)
[10:52] <proppy> Maybe ordering volunteers around is not that bad, at least in the begenning
[10:53] <proppy> for learning I mean
[10:53] <ajmitch> then you can start to lose volunteers if you order them around too much :)
[10:53] <norsetto> proppy: indeed, and when scottk is asking something, he has good reasons to do so
[10:54] <proppy> ajmitch: Just stop ordering when they are autonomous
[10:54] <norsetto> proppy: heck, then they start to be dangerous, like me ;-)
[10:55] <bddebian> What if we are forever helpless? :-)
[10:55] <proppy> dangerous autonomous person
[10:55] <norsetto> bddebian: hopeless
[10:56] <norsetto> bddebian: no sorry, hopefull, dunno why I always mix them up....
[10:56] <ScottK> norsetto: Any interest in bailing me out of a problem again?
[10:56] <norsetto> ScottK: if I can
[10:56] <bddebian> norsetto: Well you are hopeful, I am hopeless :-)
[10:56] <ScottK> bddebian is old and grumpy.  Ignore his protestations of hopelessness.
[10:56] <bddebian> hehe
[10:57] <ScottK> norsetto: Would you have a look at how to get dpatch integrate the dkim-milter package in Gutsy.
[10:57] <ScottK> norsetto: I have some patches from a later release I want to integrate, but their build system and dpatch in combination are kicking my butt right now.
[10:58] <ajmitch> except that ScottK can't really order me around on those
[10:58] <flohack> Hey! Can someone please help me out getting a new Universe package for Ubuntu on track? The source package builds fine, but when trying to build the binary package with pbuilder, the result always is an empty package. I suspect that make install does not place all the file in the correct direcory, but I don't know how to debug the problem.
[10:58] <norsetto> proppy: watch scottk and learn, thats how you make them do it and make them happy to do it ;-)
[10:59] <ajmitch> easy way when using pbuilder, is to capture the logfile, and use export DH_VERBOSE="1" in debian/rules
[10:59] <ajmitch> which gives you detailed info of what every debhelper tool is doing
[10:59] <norsetto> scottk: I can certainly put my nose in it (big nose, dunno if you noticed....)
[11:00] <flohack> ajmitch: that's nice, I'll try that and report back...cheers!
[11:00] <proppy> norsetto: When someone is really good at it, he has different method for different minded people :)
[11:01] <jussi01> Heya lads, (and ladies), trying to build something in pbuilder, but getting a load of 404's. on several different mirrors. anyone else geting this?
[11:01] <ScottK> jussi01: Not me.
[11:01] <flohack> ajmitch: gosh it even tells you about DH_VERBOSE in the debian/rules header...I should get more sleep :-)
[11:02] <geser> jussi01: outdated package list in pbuilder? tried updating it?
[11:03] <jussi01> geser: good point....
[11:03] <flohack> jussi01: you can update like this: 'sudo pbuilder update --override-config --othermirror "deb http://at.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty universe multiverse|deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty-backports main universe multiverse"'
[11:03] <norsetto> ScottK: you mean dkim-milter_1.2.0.dfsg-1ubuntu2 ?
[11:03] <flohack> jussi01: where the string in othermirror are the new repositories
[11:04] <ScottK> norsetto: Yes.
[11:04] <jussi01> its all god.  :)
[11:04] <jussi01> good
[11:04] <norsetto> scottK: where do you have the patches?
[11:04] <jussi01> oops
[11:04] <jussi01> :)
[11:04] <ScottK> norsetto: I have a couple so far, but am still grovelling through the 2.0 upgrades to make sure I get all the good ones.
[11:04] <norsetto> jussi01: hey, don't call bddebian name without reasons .....
[11:05] <ScottK> norsetto: I can point you at one or two if you want to test...
[11:05] <norsetto> ScottK: yes, pls
[11:06] <ScottK> norsetto: Digging up a url now.
[11:08] <ScottK> norsetto: Here's one: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=139420&atid=744360&file_id=237221&aid=1754893
[11:08] <ubotu> Gaim bug 1754893 "Slight reader/writer lock bug" [Pri: 3,Closed accepted] 
[11:10] <ScottK2> norsetto: Did you get the link to the patch?  I just had a power hit.
[11:11] <flohack> ajmitch: Seems my make installs copies to the correct directory '/tmp/buildd/ktikz-0.4/debian/usr'. Nevertheless the package is empty. I think a debhelper script is missing in debian/rules. I'm new to debian package, so unfortunately I have no clue...any ideas? You can have a look at the relevant log snippet here: http://pastebin.com/d28c7fe27
[11:11] <norsetto> ScottKs: its taking forever to download this .....
[11:12] <ScottK2> norsetto: Let me get you a better link
[11:13] <ajmitch> # Add here commands to install the package into debian/ktikz.
[11:13] <ScottK2> norsetto: How about
[11:13] <ScottK2> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1754893&group_id=139420&atid=744360
[11:13] <ubotu> Gaim bug 1754893 "Slight reader/writer lock bug" [Pri: 3,Closed accepted] 
[11:13] <ajmitch> note that the ktizk is missing from the installation path you mentioned
[11:14] <ajmitch> make install is getting called with PREFIX instead of DESTDIR as well, which can cause some interesting issues
[11:14] <ScottK2> Oddly enough that's the right name for the patch, but the wrong project.
[11:15] <norsetto> ScottK2: got it
[11:15] <flohack> ok...got that from another package, obviously a bad idea...my line is: $(MAKE) install PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr
[11:15] <ScottK2> norsetto: Great.
[11:16] <ajmitch> the prefix shouldn't need to eb changed, but use $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/ktizk
[11:16] <flohack> should it be $(MAKE) install PREFIX=$(DESTDIR)/usr
[11:16] <ajmitch> no, don't set PREFIX, set DESTDIR
[11:16] <flohack> I'm not sure the makefile generated by qmake honours DESTDIR?
[11:16] <flohack> I'll have a look...
[11:16] <ajmitch> it may not, if qmake is annoyingly broken
[11:16] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock :)
[11:17] <LaserJock> hmm, I suppose something from Multiverse wouldn't be good in a PPA
[11:17] <ScottK2> Heya LaserJock.
[11:17] <LaserJock> hi guys
[11:17] <norsetto> Scott2: you want to use dpatch?
[11:17] <ajmitch> flohack: $(MAKE) install PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr wouldn't work if $package wasn't set
[11:17] <flohack> HUH...it doesn't even honour PREFIX...as it seems
[11:18] <flohack> ok...you have to pass it to qmake...not to make
[11:18] <proppy> goodnight
[11:18] <superm1> _MMA_, got a sec?
[11:19] <flohack> $package seems to be set when looking at the logs
[11:19] <_MMA_> sure
[11:19] <superm1> _MMA_, someone was requesting us to add the ability to install into an ubuntustudio-desktop meta from mythbuntu-control-centre
[11:19] <ScottK2> norsetto: I mostly want to add patches.  Dpatch is what I'd have guessed would be best, but I'm flexible.
[11:19] <superm1> wanted to see what you thought about that
[11:19] <norsetto> Scottk2: np for me, I quite like dpatch
[11:20] <flohack> ajmitch: the notion of DESTDIR does not seem to exists in qmake...have to use PREFIX...which value would be correct? Can it be correct at all? What if CURDIR changes between the calls to qmake and make (probably doesn't i suppose)
[11:20] <_MMA_> superm1: Thats fine with me. Have you looked through the package list? Its really just a striped-down ubuntu-desktop with our art. I just wonder why? :)
[11:21] <superm1> no rt kernel or anything _MMA_ ?
[11:21] <LaserJock> _MMA_: because it's cool!!
[11:21] <_MMA_> :D
[11:21] <LaserJock> just call it mythstudio ;-)
[11:21] <_MMA_> superm1: Well installed from the repos it wont pull a kernel.
[11:22] <superm1> _MMA_, is the kernel not in the repos?
[11:22] <_MMA_> 'tis but -rt isnt set as a depend.
[11:22] <LaserJock> man I hate time zones
[11:23] <LaserJock> why can't we all be awake at the same time?
[11:23] <superm1> _MMA_, hm okay.  well so if the meta just pulls your artwork, how do we decide whose goes active :)
[11:23] <_MMA_> superm1: PM.
[11:23] <superm1> k
[11:24] <flohack> Can someone please tell me how the correct way of specifying LOGNAME for building with pbuilder is, because I keep getting warnings like: 'debian: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)'
[11:25] <geser> flohack: that's normal and you can ignore it
[11:25] <flohack> geser: I see...thanks!
[11:28] <norsetto> Scottk: done
[11:29] <ScottK> norsetto: Cool.
[11:29] <flohack> ajmitch: 'qmake-qt4 PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/ktikz/usr' for the configure target seems to du the trick...thanks for your help!
[11:29] <ScottK> Beyond adding dpatch to build-depends did you have to do anything outside debian/rules?
[11:30] <norsetto> Scottk:no
[11:30] <ScottK> norsetto: Would you mind emailing it to me or pastebining it?
[11:31] <norsetto> the debdiff?
[11:31] <norsetto> ScottK: the debdiff?
[11:32] <ScottK> Yes please.
[11:33] <norsetto> ok, let me change the changelog too then
[11:38] <norsetto> ScottK: email on its way ....
[11:40] <ScottK> norsetto: Thanks.
[11:41] <norsetto> ScottK: np, hope it helps
[11:41] <ScottK> I'm sure it will.  I do OK at debian/rules, but fundamentally I'm a Python programmer, not a C programmer, so the make stuff throws me sometimes.
[11:44] <norsetto> scottK: I asked my wife to buy me a python book for xmas ;-)
[11:44] <norsetto> scottK: I hope she understood its a book I want .....
[11:45] <ScottK> norsetto: Depending on her tastes she probably does NOT want to visit python.com.  Python.org is the Python language site.  FYI.
[11:46] <ScottK> Gotta run.  Thanks again.
[11:46] <norsetto> scottK: sure, see u tomorrow (ps. I asked for the o'reilly book, is it any good?)
[11:47] <ScottK> There are several.  They are all good.
[11:47] <ScottK> Learning Python is a good place to start and then Python in a Nutshell for daily reference.
[11:50] <norsetto> ScottK: ok, thanks, then there is you I can flood with questions :-)