[02:30] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:20] <wolfravenous> good evening
[03:22] <wolfravenous> is there anyone on this channel familier with k12ltsp?  I just checked that channel and their was noone there.  I am running into problem with the grub bootloader, anyone familer that might be able to lend a hand?
[03:24] <wolfravenous> ok well I guess not... have  a good evening.
[03:24] <cliebow> wolfravenous, che
[03:24] <cliebow> cripes
[03:37] <sbalneav> Yeah, doesn't hang around for long, eh?
[03:38] <sbalneav> How's cliebow tonight?
[07:33] <joebob777as7> why does it take so long to build-client in edubuntu gutsy?
[07:44] <LaserJock> what do you mean?
[07:44] <LaserJock> in general or at installation?
[07:45] <joebob777as7> in general. I updated from feisty
[07:46] <joebob777as7> also i was wondering how i control which apps are installed on each thin-client?
[07:47] <kgoetz> arnt the same apps installed everyware?
[07:47] <LaserJock> well, apps are *installed* on the thin clients, they are thin :-)
[07:48] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: well, build-client is making a minimal Ubuntu system so it can take a while
[07:48] <joebob777as7> kgoetz, no i just installed dasher in the original client and then it's not there on thins...
[07:48] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, ok it just seems it is taking longer than it did in feisty...
[07:49] <LaserJock> it's possible that more stuff is being installed, but I really don't know
[07:49] <joebob777as7> so anyway how do i install apps on all thins? ie wine apps?
[07:51] <LaserJock> agaain, you don't install apps on the thin clients
[07:51] <LaserJock> you install them on the server
[07:53] <jjjjjjj> question:  can edubuntu with LTSP installed be accessed from outside the school/classroom?  Or is it not designed for this type of remote access?  thanks
[07:53] <LaserJock> jjjjjjj: it's like a normal Ubuntu install
[07:53] <kgoetz> could be, but i wouldnt myself
[07:54] <jjjjjjj> i understand the installation.
[07:55] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, it just finished and i'm getting: "tftp: client does not accept options" on one of my clients? and then on my other client it looks like it's going to go and it just sits at a black screen with a flashing underscore... is there a way to troubleshoot this?
[07:56] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: do you know what kind of video card your thin client has?
[07:56] <kgoetz> joebob777as7: syslog will help probably
[07:57] <joebob777as7> i'm looking at the log doesn't say anything about it failing and now on my client it just says (unknown) [192.168.0.254]  9571  : connection timed out
[07:58] <joebob777as7> but the range i told it to take it 10.0.0.20-10.0.0.254 I don't know where it's getting this 192.168.0.254...
[07:58] <jjjjjjj> how are you connecting the computers?  with a router or a hub or a switch?
[07:59] <joebob777as7> jjjjjjj, crossover cable
[07:59] <jjjjjjj> ah
[07:59] <jjjjjjj> just a server and one thin client eh?
[08:01] <joebob777as7> I see the 192.168.0.254 in my dhcpd.conf file but it is commented out...
[08:01] <kgoetz> joebob777as7: whats the servers ip/s?
[08:02] <joebob777as7> 192.168.0.2
[08:03] <joebob777as7> and 10.0.0.1
[08:04] <kgoetz> is the client plugged into th right nic?
[08:04] <joebob777as7> yes and it picks up an ip in the range i told it to 10.0.0.249
[08:07] <joebob777as7> kgoetz, this is the config for /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[08:07] <joebob777as7> http://www.pastebin.ca/693310
[08:08] <joebob777as7> should i change the 192.168.0.254 to something else? it wasn't in there before gutsy
[08:08] <joebob777as7> neither of those commented lines were...
[08:10] <kgoetz> i'm at work, i'll bbs
[08:10] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, any idea?
[08:12] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: did yout try next-server 10.0.0.1; ?
[08:13] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, no... should i uncomment it? i figured since it was commented out it wouldn't even be read...
[08:16] <LaserJock> it shouldn't be read
[08:16] <LaserJock> also, did you restart the dhcp server?
[08:17] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, yes i did but i haven't changed that value. hold on i'll change it and then restart dhcp
[08:18] <joebob777as7> btw what does the next-server option do?
[08:19] <LaserJock> I don't really know
[08:23] <joebob777as7> now when it boots i'm getting [   12.568000]  intel_rng: FWH not detected then it sits for about 5 mins and then it gets to the login... when i enter username and pass it says verifying password but never does....
[08:23] <joebob777as7> LaserJock,
[08:24] <LaserJock> hmm, well that's at least something
[08:25] <joebob777as7> lol yeah nothing is still something in this case
[08:26] <joebob777as7> still "verifying password"
[08:27] <joebob777as7> oh wait now i have a cursor with black screen.... we may have something here! I might officially have the slowest ltsp server on the planet!!!
[08:47] <joebob777as7> looks like edubuntu has a long way to go!
[08:51] <LaserJock> there's always more to do
[08:51] <LaserJock> it's come a long way though
[08:52] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: you might want to add the specs of your thin client to the bug report
[08:53] <joebob777as7> just did LaserJock ;)
[09:01] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: what are the specs on that thin client?
[09:01] <LaserJock> do you happen to know
[09:02] <joebob777as7> x60 tablet known working in edubuntu feisty specs: http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X60_Tablet
[09:03] <joebob777as7> the other one that it says client didn't like settings was a fujitsu p1610 still same error...
[09:03] <LaserJock> geeze, that is your thin client?
[09:04] <LaserJock> that thing is better than my LTSP server :-)
[09:06] <joebob777as7> lol...
[09:06] <joebob777as7> it is just to test with. but I am going to be running actual desktops as thin clients when i'm done so i can run compiz-fusion on them all
[09:06] <LaserJock> heh
[09:13] <joebob777as7> thanks LaserJock. night
[09:13] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: this is my thin client: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classmate_PC
[09:14] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: good night
[09:25] <RichEd> edubuntugirl: tell highvoltage RichEd says hello
[09:25] <edubuntugirl> Righto, RichEd!
[09:25] <highvoltage> :)
[09:25] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: by the way, RichEd told me to tell you 'RichEd says hello' 26 seconds ago (on Wed Sep 12 09:25:27 2007)
[09:26] <highvoltage> hello RicheEd
[09:26] <RichEd> and a good  to you too
[09:27] <highvoltage> oops, meant RichEd
[09:27] <highvoltage> good morning, how are things?
[09:27] <RichEd> fine thanks ... and self ?
[09:27] <highvoltage> bit overworked, but surviving
[09:27] <RichEd> did you see my email about classroom management s/w ?
[09:28] <highvoltage> not yet, busy downloading email right now... (didn't have a chance to look since yesterday)
[09:50] <jsgotangco> hello highvoltage
[09:59] <RichEd> hi jsgotangco
[10:00] <jsgotangco> yo RichEd
[10:21] <RichEd> yo' wo' mr goetz
[10:21] <RichEd> yo' yo' ... i mean ...
[10:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[10:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[10:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> whats happening in here?
[10:23] <RichEd> here ? the channel / the planet
[10:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> here edubuntuland
[10:23] <RichEd> oh the usual ... tech questions ... random mumblings ... occasional poor attempts at humour
[10:24] <RichEd> and in the land of oz ?
[10:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> trying to rewire my vhs+speakers+pc setup. basically procrastinating
[10:26] <RichEd> very important task ...
[10:27] <RichEd> especially seeing as the world cup rugby is on at the same time as the world cup t20 cricket ...
[10:27] <RichEd> ;)
[10:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[11:30] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco (sorry, was driving)
[01:45] <ogra> RichEd, what about our meeting ?
[01:46] <RichEd> ogra ... isn't it the late one today ?
[01:46] <ogra> RichEd, i meant *our* meeting you wanted to have done before 2
[01:46] <ogra> :)
[01:46] <RichEd> oh :)
[03:08] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:19] <cliebow_> Scottie!!!!!!!!!!
[03:29] <sbalneav> Hey cliebow
[04:34] <bddebian> heya
[07:22] <sbalneav> LaserJock: You about?  Sorry to bug you, but I've pretty much done with the doco.  I had one or two questions though.
[07:22] <sbalneav> ogra: You want to look at the docs?
[07:23] <ogra> *installs
[07:23] <sbalneav> I haven't made a new ppd from the stuff I did today.
[07:23] <sbalneav> sorry, ppa
[07:23] <ogra> oh
[07:23] <sbalneav> hold on, lemme see if I can get that on the boil....
[07:24] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what's up?
[07:24] <ogra> hey LaserJock
[07:24] <sbalneav> 2 questions:
[07:25] <sbalneav> 1) who replaces the "feisty" references with gutsy?  Is that some automatic thing, or should I do it?
[07:25] <ogra> you
[07:25] <sbalneav> ok
[07:25] <ogra> its done by the person that maintains the changelog :)
[07:25] <sbalneav> 2) Should we take a look at the "maintainers" field in the bookinfo?
[07:25] <ogra> what has it now ?
[07:26] <sbalneav> which maintainers?
[07:26] <sbalneav> Jonathan and Will
[07:26] <ogra> which one are you talking about ? the one from debian/cotrol ?
[07:26] <ogra> *control
[07:26] <sbalneav> No, just text in the document
[07:26] <ogra> ah, for the upstream doc
[07:26] <ogra> update it :)
[07:26] <sbalneav> right.
[07:26] <sbalneav> ok
[07:26] <sbalneav> Will do
[07:27] <sbalneav> I'll do that, and get a ppa pushed out.
[07:27] <ogra> but keep them referenced csince they own copyrights
[07:27] <LaserJock> sbalneav: for 1, is that in the doc?
[07:27] <ogra> sbalneav, no hurry, i wont read it before the meeting
[07:28] <sbalneav> Oh, wait
[07:28] <ogra> right, i was referring to the package with my answers :)
[07:28] <sbalneav> sorry, it's pointing to &disro-revision
[07:28] <sbalneav> NM
[07:29] <ogra> network manager ? how is that involved now
[07:29] <ogra> :)
[07:33] <LaserJock> sbalneav: hmm, I thought that should've been done long ago
[07:33] <LaserJock> sbalneav: is it still saying Feisty for you?
[07:34] <sbalneav> I printed it out on a feisty box.  Duh.
[07:34] <ogra> is it filled from lsb-release ?
[07:34] <sbalneav> ok, ppa pushed.  Waiting for cron :)
[07:34] <ogra> thats bad ...
[07:35] <LaserJock> hmm, that shouldn't matter
[07:35] <sbalneav> My co-worker here at legalaid *volunteered* to proofread the document for me.  She spent about 3 hours last night.
[07:35] <LaserJock> the entitiy is in the doc team repo
[07:35] <LaserJock> awesome
[07:35] <ogra> yeah
[07:35] <sbalneav> came up with lots of punctuation, spelling, and gram errors.
[07:35] <LaserJock> we should give her a sucker or something
[07:35] <ogra> tell her thanks from the community :)
[07:35] <ogra> (mention her in the credits ;) )
[07:35] <sbalneav> I did one better and put her in the contributers.
[07:35] <sbalneav> :)
[07:36] <ogra> yeah
[07:36] <sbalneav> She said she'd happily do it next time as well.
[07:36] <sbalneav> so yay for Carol.
[07:36] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I have no idea how feisty would get in there
[07:36] <sbalneav> I installed the ppa on a feisty box, and printed it.
[07:36] <LaserJock> it shouldn't matter
[07:37] <sbalneav> Well, I just printed it now, and it says gutsy.
[07:37] <LaserJock> or wait
[07:37] <ogra> that should get set during build time
[07:37] <ogra> did you build it on feisty ?
[07:37] <sbalneav> No, gutsy
[07:37] <LaserJock> ogra: the docs don't get "built"
[07:37] <ogra> i thought you send them through docbook
[07:37] <LaserJock> they are docbook
[07:37] <ogra> ah ok
[07:37] <sbalneav> ogra: Guess how many pages we are now?
[07:37] <sbalneav> Just guess
[07:37] <ogra> i thought the are converted somehow
[07:37] <LaserJock> and yelp reads docbook
[07:37] <ogra> 60 ?
[07:38] <sbalneav> Close.
[07:38] <sbalneav> 50
[07:38] <ogra> 55
[07:38] <ogra> wow !
[07:38] <ogra> !!!!1111 one ONE !
[07:38] <Ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 1111 one one ! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[07:38] <ogra> :P
[07:38] <ogra> dumb bot
[07:38] <sbalneav> Could be bigger, but it's gone beyond the "information pamphlet" stage!
[07:38] <LaserJock> pfft, the packaging guide is 80+ ;-)
[07:39] <ogra> anyway, /me takes a brak until meeting ....
[07:39] <sbalneav> Oh, foo on you :)
[07:39] <ogra> *break
[07:39] <LaserJock> well, the license is 11 pages long :-)
[07:39] <sbalneav> lol
[07:39] <sbalneav> Yeah, and you print in a 16 point font, and you've got 3 inch margins.
[07:39] <sbalneav> :)
[07:42] <LaserJock> no
[07:42] <LaserJock> I've got a real book version
[07:42] <LaserJock> the first Ubuntu Doc Team book printed from lulu.com
[07:43] <LaserJock> ok, back to business
[07:43] <LaserJock> sbalneav: did you do anything with the addon CD?
[08:12] <sbalneav> ogra, LaserJock: -ppa6 of edubuntu-docs is on my ppa
[08:13] <LaserJock> k
[08:13] <LaserJock> gosh, I wish I had time to test anything
[08:14] <LaserJock> well and "machines" to test on
[08:14] <ogra> yippiiiee
[08:14] <ogra> sparc built
[08:14] <LaserJock> heh
[08:14] <LaserJock> do sparc's use g-p-m much?
[08:14] <ogra> i wonder if it even does anything
[08:14] <ogra> no idea
[08:14] <ogra> but it blocked ubuntu-desktop :)
[08:15] <LaserJock> I'm waiting for a keyboard to show up in the mail and then I'll have a sparc machine to test on
[08:15] <sbalneav> If you get the chance at some point over the next couple of days, doing a full push of edubuntu-docs is probably ok, unless ogra looks and says "scott, you moron!" :)
[08:15] <LaserJock> I'm working on the "About Edubuntu" doc
[08:15] <ogra> you know i wont say that
[08:15] <LaserJock> and then I'll look at the addon CD part of the handbook
[08:16] <LaserJock> and then I'll upload
[08:16] <LaserJock> hopefully I can manage that by the weekend ;-)
[08:18] <sbalneav> Well, string freeze's tomorrow, right?
[08:18] <LaserJock> uh sure ...
[08:18] <LaserJock> like I care
[08:19] <LaserJock> oops, was that out loud ;-)
[08:19] <LaserJock> yes, string freeze is tomorrow
[08:19] <LaserJock> I think we should be set
[08:19] <LaserJock> anything I'll do will be basically a bug fix
[08:20] <ogra> :))
[08:20] <LaserJock> I wanted to put some of the better wiki pages in as topics
[08:20] <LaserJock> but I guess maybe we can do that for Hardy
[08:20] <ogra> good idea
[08:21] <LaserJock> I think stuff like debugging/troubleshooting
[08:21] <LaserJock> plus the Recipie type pages would be cool
[08:21] <LaserJock> Recipe
[08:22] <LaserJock> stuff that when people do a search in Gnome Help for common LTSP problems they are likely to get something
[08:22] <LaserJock> even if it's "here are some pointers but you can get more info from:"
[08:22] <LaserJock> but it's a bit late for gutsy to get all that organized
[08:23] <LaserJock> I really want to turn Gavin and David Trask into Edubuntu doc people ;-)
[08:23] <ogra> yeah
[08:23] <ogra> to sad that gavin doesnt IRC
[08:23] <LaserJock> well, when I see a good email I try to ask him to put it on the wiki
[08:24] <LaserJock> that's at least a good start
[08:25] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm guessing people don't read About Edubuntu that much
[08:25] <LaserJock> some of the sections sound kinda weird because they are s/Ubuntu/Edubuntu/
[08:26] <LaserJock> one paragraph says that Edubuntu is based on Ubuntu
[08:26] <LaserJock> then a couple paragraphs down it says that Edubuntu is based on Debian
[08:27] <ogra> ouch
[08:36] <sbalneav> This in the handbook?
[08:38] <LaserJock> no
[08:38] <LaserJock> About Edubuntu
[09:24] <moquist> ldm.log say: "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication."
[09:41] <RichEd> [09:42] <xerakko> please, anybody can paste me the default sources.list for edubuntu?
[10:00] <ogra> [10:00] <RichEd> beat me to it
[10:01] <moquist> X11 connection rejected b/c .Xauthority not created b/c quota for group was full.
[10:01] <ogra> wow
[10:01] <ogra> thats mean
[10:01] <ogra> you should set up a cronjob to mail you df output
[10:01] <moquist> that's incompetent...but it was me who did it. 8-o
[10:01] <moquist> all better now. :)
[10:53] <joebob777as7> nice is xdmcp turned on by default in edubuntu? or how do i do that?
[10:54] <sbalneav> xdmcp is turned off by default
[10:54] <sbalneav> Do you expect local devices and sound to work?
[10:57] <sbalneav> joebob777as7: Hello?
[10:58] <joebob777as7> sbalneav, hey
[10:58] <joebob777as7> yes if possible
[10:58] <sbalneav> Won't be possible with xdmcp
[10:58] <joebob777as7> shoot...
[10:58] <sbalneav> Do like I told you in #ltsp
[10:58] <sbalneav> remove that file.
[10:59] <sbalneav> rebuild your chroot with ltsp-update-image.
[11:00] <joebob777as7> ok but i don't want it to bog down my network... is there a way to automount user dir upon login so i don't have to store user files locally?
[11:00] <joebob777as7> aside from ltsp...
[11:00] <sbalneav> Yeah, sure.
[11:01] <sbalneav> read up on NFS and pam_mount.
[11:01] <joebob777as7> ok i will do that.
[11:01] <sbalneav> simplest will just be to export /home on your server, and mount it on the clients.
[11:02] <sbalneav> in which case you won't need pam_mount.
[11:03] <joebob777as7> well i don't want to waste your time with that... but thank you i'll head over to #ubuntu and get some help unless you don't mind.
[11:03] <ogra> so did you guys find the prob ?
[11:04] <joebob777as7> yes. put SERVER=10.0.0.1 in lts.conf
[11:04] <sbalneav> Yep, but he doesn't want ltsp now, since compiz is apparently a "requirement" for him :)
[11:04] <ogra> well ...
[11:04] <ogra> compiz is fine with the intel cards
[11:04] <sbalneav> Over the network?  eeewwww.
[11:04] <ogra> yeah
[11:05] <ogra> its lots faster than metacity
[11:05] <joebob777as7> oh cool!
[11:05] <sbalneav> Besides, no one's tested it.
[11:05] <sbalneav> ogra: Good, you can support it :)
[11:05] <ogra> well, we did on feisty with the classmate, remember ?
[11:05] <ogra> not today anymore
[11:05] <sbalneav> ogra: Oh, yeah, 10 minutes worth :)
[11:05] <ogra> i'm around since 14h again
[11:05] <joebob777as7> well another day then
[11:05] <ogra> err 13
[11:05] <ogra> tomorrow :)
[11:06] <ogra> i'm here every day ...
[11:06] <joebob777as7> ok thanks a bunch ogra you have given me new hope!
[11:06] <ogra> this channel is my office :)
[11:06] <sbalneav> Well, I'm gonna stand by my conviction.
[11:06] <sbalneav> I don't think it's gonna work.
[11:06] <ogra> sbalneav, didnt you see compiz on the classmate ?
[11:06] <sbalneav> Yeah, and it had bugs.
[11:06] <sbalneav> I tried it, and it didn't work for me.
[11:06] <ogra> its even faster than running it locally
[11:07] <LaserJock> I'm totally going to try it
[11:07] <LaserJock> at the next LUG meeting
[11:07] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:07] <ogra> not with the -intel drve on the classmate ... you needed the i810 one and 915resolution
[11:07] <sbalneav> Crashed horribly.  Besides, doesn't matter wether YOU think it works, does UPSTREAM certify it on a remote display?
[11:08] <ogra> does that matter ?
[11:08] <joebob777as7> i had it working on feisty. sbalneav told me to remove a file in chroot that disabled compiz still doesn't work though....
[11:08] <sbalneav> Then if you think people can turn it on, you better figure out a way so that it's not forced off.
[11:08] <ogra> its a GL app run over the network
[11:08] <ogra> i forced it off for gutsy but for other reasons
[11:08] <sbalneav> joebob777as7: Did you rebuild your image with ltsp-update-image?
[11:08] <joebob777as7> yes i did...
[11:09] <sbalneav> Then you should be able to select it.
[11:09] <ogra> and i think the breakage i had is covered in compiz itself now ... we *could* switch it on
[11:09] <ogra> sbalneav, nay idea why SERVER wasnt set for him ?
[11:09] <ogra> *any
[11:09] <ogra> it should be piced up from ROOTSERVER
[11:09] <joebob777as7> yeah lets do that I am only running 5 clients and they will all have 128mb nvidia 7-series vid cards.
[11:09] <sbalneav> yeah, if you've got an nbd root, the autodetection code doesn't work.
[11:09] <ogra> from dhcp
[11:09] <sbalneav> it looks for nfs mounts only
[11:09] <ogra> huh ?
[11:09] <ogra> gah
[11:10] <ogra> we need to fix that
[11:10] <sbalneav> yeah
[11:10] <sbalneav> I haven't had time yet.
[11:10] <ogra> why didnt i notice that yet ?
[11:10] <ogra> that must be broken since quite some time
[11:10] <sbalneav> yup :)
[11:10] <ogra> and we had no bugs either
[11:10] <ogra> hrm
[11:10] <sbalneav> I keep reminding myself to look at it, but keep forgetting
[11:11] <ogra> sounds like me with ltsp-update.image :)
[11:11] <sbalneav> So, is the only place you're disabling compiz in the ldm script?
[11:11] <ogra> but in my case that helped ... francis added a lot of broken stuff, you fixed it and i just had to add the rest :)
[11:11] <ogra> yeah
[11:11] <sbalneav> ok, then lets just remove that, then.
[11:12] <ogra> the autodetection on login trashed the via cients i tried
[11:12] <sbalneav> but I got a baaaaaaaaaad feeling about it.
[11:12] <ogra> but via is blacklisted there now
[11:12] <ogra> so we could probably drop that hack again
[11:12] <sbalneav> ok
[11:12] <sbalneav> well, I'll remove it from my tree then
[11:12] <ogra> try it on a fresh install please with cards you know dont work with compiz ...
[11:12] <LaserJock> oh wait, what are you guys talking about?
[11:13] <sbalneav> as for joebob777as7, if he just removes it, he should be fine.
[11:13] <ogra> it should sanely fall back to metacity everywhere
[11:13] <LaserJock> ogra: you're wanting to do "compiz-by-defalt" for TCs?
[11:13] <ogra> i'm not sure he'll see compiz with the -intel driver, but it wont do harm i think :)
[11:13] <ogra> LaserJock, we did for a while .... until my via clients all started crashing :)
[11:13] <joebob777as7> ogra, i have it running fine on my other feisty ltsp box
[11:14] <ogra> but mvo maintains a blacklist for all bad cards ...
[11:14] <ogra> i supplied him a list for TCs i know that were broken ...
[11:15] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:15] <sbalneav> I think we need to add an LTSP parameter, COMPIZ_OK
[11:15] <LaserJock> I think we'd need some pretty extensive testing
[11:15] <ogra> feel fre to hack up the scrpt
[11:15] <sbalneav> S15-prevent-compiz
[11:16] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, i'll do the testing
[11:16] <LaserJock> I personally rather see an easy option but not by default
[11:16] <ogra> joebob777as7, well, you have working HW
[11:16] <LaserJock> joebob777as7: you can't test on all the various thin clients out there
[11:16] <ogra> joebob777as7, what we need to find are the people with the broken HW ;)
[11:16] <joebob777as7> i also have non working hardware.
[11:16] <joebob777as7> i have a via client micro-atx
[11:17] <LaserJock> perhaps, as Scotty has suggested a LTPS parameter
[11:17] <ogra> LaserJock, it shouldnt make any difference if compiz runs networked or locally ...
[11:17] <sbalneav> S15-prevent-compiz should read the variable, and unless it's true, compiz is disabled.
[11:17] <LaserJock> and we can have a call for testing for gutsy
[11:17] <ogra> i'd do it the other way around :)
[11:17] <LaserJock> and default or not for hardy
[11:17] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:17] <LaserJock> it's your bugs :-)
[11:17] <sbalneav> compiz ON by default? for thin clients?! Are you MAD?!?!
[11:17] <ogra> the thing is, if it doesnt work its not an ltsp bug
[11:18] <ogra> sbalneav, nope
[11:18] <LaserJock> true
[11:18] <sbalneav> The firefox bug isn't an ltsp bug either.
[11:18] <ogra> its a defaul we use in ubuntu now, the autodetection is supposed to work after four months of constant development
[11:18] <LaserJock> true
[11:18] <sbalneav> I got an inbox full of messages from Jim K wanting me to build custom firefox images with beta patches to fix the problem.
[11:19] <ogra> phew
[11:19] <ogra> yeah, he's also very noisy on the NM bug
[11:19] <ogra> luckily asac is a clam man ...
[11:19] <ogra> (he maintains both in ubuntu)
[11:19] <ogra> *calm
[11:19] <sbalneav> Yeah, you turn compiz on by default, and it craps out on 3/4 of the thin clients out there, people aren't going to understad that it's a compiz bug
[11:20] <sbalneav> they're going to see it as an ltsp bug
[11:20] <ogra> well, it was on most of the dev cycle
[11:20] <ogra> i switched it off not to long ago
[11:20] <joebob777as7> it has a crash handler can't you have it do a metacity --replace if fail?
[11:20] <ogra> what else would you do in hardy ?
[11:20] <ogra> joebob777as7, thats what it does
[11:21] <joebob777as7> perfect
[11:21] <ogra> sbalneav, you would switch it on during development ... and then in the end switch it off again because you didnt get enough negative feedback ?
[11:22] <sbalneav> No, I'd leave it off by default, and have it switchable on, if people want.
[11:22] <ogra> indeed we can do the same in two cycles to be absolutely sure ...
[11:23] <sbalneav> For every joebob who'd got a labfull of nvidia cards, we've got 100 brazillians who are lucky if their video card's got a meg of ram.
[11:23] <LaserJock> well, given how much it's been tested in Ubuntu, maybe by-default with a LTSP option to turn it off *and* good documentation might be a decent way to go
[11:23] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it will go with metacity then
[11:23] <joebob777as7> lol is there a way to to a memory size test if 8 megs or under then do metacity?
[11:23] <LaserJock> it's supposed to only work on cards that it'll actually work on
[11:23] <ogra> sbalneav, these videocards wont return GL info if asked by the script and default to metacity
[11:24] <sbalneav> I'd have to see that to beleive it.
[11:24] <ogra> you see it on every login :)
[11:24] <ogra> it checks on every login
[11:24] <ogra> since gitsy opened
[11:24] <ogra> *gutsy
[11:24] <LaserJock> yeah, I only have 1 machine that'll run it
[11:24] <ogra> right
[11:24] <sbalneav> No I don't, because I don't RUN compiz, beacuse as far as i'm concerned, it's the biggest waste of time I've ever seen. :)
[11:24] <LaserJock> the other's don't
[11:24] <ogra> i only have the classmate that runs it :)
[11:25] <ogra> sbalneav, its a huge usability improvement in the way we ship it by default now
[11:25] <joebob777as7> I agree
[11:25] <sbalneav> What, exactly, does it add usability wise.
[11:25] <ogra> wobbly windows are crap, i totally agree here
[11:25] <sbalneav> What can you do with compiz that you CANT do with meta?
[11:26] <sbalneav> Don't confuse "bling" with "usability"
[11:26] <ogra> a very nice window switching
[11:26] <joebob777as7> zoom negative zoom out to see a wall of all desktops live!
[11:26] <ogra> fitts law implemented in the desktop all over
[11:26] <sbalneav> Anyway, I know I'm gonna lose that argument, cuz I'm an old fart
[11:26] <ogra> very good desktop switching ...
[11:26] <ogra> and GL based zooming
[11:26] <sbalneav> Do whatever.  Just so long as I can switch it off at my site.
[11:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: don't worry, it's not just you
[11:27] <LaserJock> sbalneav: do you have any hardware that'll run it?
[11:27] <joebob777as7> as well as fade we use that all the time to see the window behind it partially . I'm doing that now watching a movie behind this window
[11:27] <sbalneav> I'd recommend, for at least one cycle, to have it OFF by default, with the option to turn it on.  Then, the gusty cycle, you'll get feedback, and if it's positive enought, you can turn it ON by default with hardy.
[11:27] <sbalneav> but that's just me
[11:28] <ogra> sbalneav, if you come up with a fix for the script i'll accept whatever default you choose in your code ...
[11:28] <ogra> for gutsy ....
[11:28] <ogra> but we'll default to "on" in hardy ...
[11:28] <ogra> ok ?
[11:28] <sbalneav> Sounds fine.
[11:28] <LaserJock> +1 from me, not that it matters ;-)
[11:28] <ogra> ok
[11:28] <sbalneav> At least that way, you'll get six months of feedback on it's usability on the terminals.
[11:29] <LaserJock> my concern is that I'm guessing it hasn't been tested much in gutsy
[11:29] <ogra> sbalneav, no, i wont
[11:29] <LaserJock> as far as LTSP/Thin clients
[11:29] <sbalneav> Nah, if you want it on by default, I can do it gladly.  I'm just figuring you're going to get a TON of unhappy users.
[11:29] <ogra> sbalneav, i'll get feedback from people that enabled it because they knew it would work on their cards
[11:29] <joebob777as7> like me
[11:29] <ogra> right
[11:29] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:30] <sbalneav> Well, you'll also get some who will do it hoping, and have it fail.
[11:30] <LaserJock> could we test it at Beta?
[11:30] <ogra> to get feedbeack from the ones i'm intrested in, we'd actually need them doing testing during a dev cycle
[11:30] <sbalneav> anywho.  I'll patch tonight, add some docs on it, and we can test.
[11:30] <LaserJock> if we have a nice "on/off" switch then it'll be trivial to make a change either way for Release
[11:30] <ogra> which they rarely do ...
[11:31] <ogra> LaserJock, remember that we dont ship l-r-m in thin clients ... its a hard task to set it up for these people already ...
[11:31] <sbalneav> ok, gotta catch the bus.
[11:31] <sbalneav> I'll be on later.
[11:31] <sbalneav> night all
[11:31] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:31] <ogra> its only one more option ... but that makes i one more option harder
[11:31] <joebob777as7> what is l-r-m?
[11:31] <ogra> linux-restricted-modules
[11:32] <LaserJock> ogra: so what steps does it take to get it going?
[11:32] <LaserJock> chroot in and install l-r-m or  whatever graphics driver?
[11:32] <ogra> install l-r-m ... run ltsp-update-kernels ... add XSERVER=nvidia/fglrx to lts.conf should work
[11:32] <ogra> oh
[11:33] <ogra> and in gutsy indeed ltsp-update-image
[11:33] <joebob777as7> i'm stoked!
[11:33] <LaserJock> and you'd still have to do that if we had compiz-by-default?
[11:33] <ogra> yes
[11:33] <ogra> to get the nvidia/ati drivers
[11:33] <LaserJock> ah
[11:33] <LaserJock> well that's a bit different
[11:34] <ogra> well, thats 2/3 of compiz users
[11:34] <LaserJock> I'm not sure why else you'd install the nvidia/ati drivers for a TC unless you wanted crack like that
[11:34] <ogra> we only ship intel drivers that work out of the box
[11:34] <ogra> for GL apps
[11:34] <LaserJock> hmm, true
[11:34] <ogra> GL over the net is not slower than locally ...
[11:34] <joebob777as7> yeah for those that want gl screensavers... ;)
[11:35] <LaserJock> I still don't get how it works
[11:35] <LaserJock> if the server doesn't have a GL-capable card
[11:35] <ogra> you transfer all bitmaps in the beginning, and the initial model
[11:35] <LaserJock> hmm, I see
[11:35] <ogra> then only changes to the vector model are sent and computed
[11:36] <ogra> only if you change a bitmap it will eat bandwith
[11:36] <LaserJock> that's really amazing to me that that works
[11:36] <ogra> GL is great ... the HW and drivers always were the prob here
[11:36] <ogra> anyway, i'll need to stop ... get some food etc ...
[11:36] <ogra> 23:30 here
[11:37] <LaserJock> so if I had say, a chemisty GL app, that's work the same way right?
[11:37] <ogra> woring since 10am ...
[11:37] <ogra> yeah
[11:37] <LaserJock> yeah, get some rest
[11:37] <LaserJock> nifty
[11:37] <ogra> will do :)
[11:37] <LaserJock> I'll have to play around witht he CMPC
[11:37] <joebob777as7> night ogra
[11:37] <ogra> night all
[11:37] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, what is cmpc?
[11:38] <LaserJock> ClassmatePC
[11:38] <LaserJock> that's my current "thin client" :-)
[11:39] <LaserJock> as I don't actually use LTSP for anything in real life
[11:40] <joebob777as7> oh ok
[11:40] <joebob777as7> cool
[11:40] <joebob777as7> LaserJock, so will i be able to use sound and local devices on these thinclients as well?
[11:41] <LaserJock> yes, you should be able to
[11:42] <joebob777as7> awesome. so i'll be able to burn cd's? at full speed?
[11:44] <joebob777as7> also am i going to see a huge difference between 100mbit and gigabit?
[11:44] <dedalus> on one client - not
[11:44] <dedalus> on 20+ yes:>
[11:44] <joebob777as7> on 5 clients?
[11:44] <dedalus> probably not
[11:45] <dedalus> well, it's nice to have giga "backbone"
[11:45] <dedalus> clients can be 100mbit
[11:45] <dedalus> anyway I have a question (oe more) regarding edubuntu ltsp operation
[11:46] <dedalus> i'm trying to get ltsp working on xen host domain
[11:46] <dedalus> and it works...sort of
[11:47] <dedalus> there is one interesting problem - ltsp seems to "ignore" nfs export
[11:47] <joebob777as7> ok also will an AMD Opteron 180 Denmark 2.4GHz be good enough to run these fairly quick?
[11:47] <dedalus> since when i'm logged in, i can browse server root dir?
[11:48] <dedalus> is should be ok, joebob777as7
[11:48] <dedalus> as long as you have enough ram awailable
[11:48] <joebob777as7> how much will i need? will 2 gigs be enough or should i plan for 4?
[11:49] <joebob777as7> also I have similar issue my thin clients can all view other user's documents?
[11:49] <dedalus> 2 gigs is more than enough
[11:49] <joebob777as7> ok cool
[11:50] <dedalus> anyway - if I login in shell
[11:50] <dedalus> then everything is ok - i find myself in chroot environment
[11:50] <dedalus> any clue?
[11:53] <joebob777as7> hmm...
[11:55] <joebob777as7> weird... i'd tell LaserJock or i hear that sbalneav is the bug fixer guru he'll be back on in a bit.
[11:57] <dedalus> my last guess was, that somehow I manage to log on to server's gnome, which is not chrooted
[11:57] <dedalus> do I need complete system in /opt/ltsp/i386?
[11:59] <joebob777as7> is this a fresh install or upgrade dedalus ?
[12:00] <dedalus> fresh install
[12:03] <joebob777as7> looks almost complete but not quite. you might try removing chroot and rebuilding ltsp-build-client
[12:03] <dedalus> i'll give it a try...
[12:04] <dedalus> chroot should have xserver/desktop, etc installed?
[12:04] <joebob777as7> where? i'll check?
[12:04] <joebob777as7> .
[12:04] <dedalus> i mean /opt/ltsp/i386
[12:05] <joebob777as7> i have an etc in mine
[12:14] <joebob777as7> dedalus, progress?
[12:15] <dedalus> reading thru some docs
[12:15] <dedalus> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Updated_Version_For_Feisty
[12:18] <dedalus> i'll try rebuilding ltsp client
[12:26] <dedalus> it seems that first build was broken
[12:26] <dedalus> cause it's installing a lot of stuff now
[12:32] <joebob777as7> ahppened to me too
[12:34] <sbalneav> Evening all
[12:34] <LaserJock> wb
[12:49] <joebob777as7> hey sbalneav
[12:49] <sbalneav> Hello