[01:55] <Ubotu> New bug: #139247 in launchpad-bazaar "bzr+ssh:// cannot be used to branch" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139247
[03:32] <andresj> hello everybody, does someone know how can I upload the .orig.tar.gz file to PPA Build Service?
[03:36] <andresj> nobody?
[04:10] <RAOF> andresj: You need to build the source package with the "-sa" switch.  This says "include orig.tar.gz, even if you think you don't need it".
[04:11] <andresj> RAOF, thanks. I just received a reply in the launchpad-users mailing list telling me the same, :), but thanks anyways ;)
[04:11] <RAOF> Heh, just saw that ;)
[04:12] <andresj> hahaha
[04:12] <andresj> yeah! uploading it... :)
[04:14] <andresj> is there a way to tell dput to inform me how much time is left in the upload, the percentage etc. (like wget?)
[04:30] <Ubotu> New bug: #139275 in launchpad "show why mirrors are disabled" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139275
[05:31] <Ubotu> New bug: #139281 in launchpad "PPA directory doesn't update with username" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139281
[05:36] <spiv> I see :)
[05:36] <spiv> Oops, I should learn how to drive my IRC client...
[08:42] <carlos> morning
[10:25] <soren> The PPA Soyuz magic still only runs every 20 minutes, right?
[11:45] <Ubotu> New bug: #139327 in malone "comments are missing in +text view" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139327
[12:47] <bac> stevea: ping
[12:47] <SteveA> hi bac 
[12:47] <bac> SteveA:  hi steve.  do you still do little LP admin tasks or is that all kiko now
[12:48] <SteveA> I can do some
[12:48] <bac> SteveA:  a friend of mine wants to have a project marked as a project group.  could you do that?
[12:49] <SteveA> probably.  I've never had cause to try.
[12:49] <bac> SteveA:  oh, ok then.  i'll leave it for kiko to do next week when things calm down.
[12:49] <SteveA> historically, we've tried to keep project groups for well-known large projects
[12:50] <SteveA> or those projects that oversee several other projects
[12:50] <SteveA> so that's why it requires an admin to do it
[12:50] <bac> SteveA:  yes, it is the latter with ambitions for the former.  :)
[12:51] <bac> SteveA:  but they are a well funded group with multiple projects that need to live under an umbrella.  sounds like a good fit.
[01:17] <erdesc> lo
[01:20] <Ubotu> New bug: #139343 in launchpad "Launchpad PPA - rejected" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139343
[02:45] <ubotu> New bug: #139360 in blueprint "DateTimeParser fails silently for certain inputs" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139360
[03:59] <Rinchen> hmm it's time
[03:59] <jrib> time?
[03:59] <Rinchen> time for a meeting :-)
[04:00] <jrib> oh, I see.  the 1400UTC meeting as listed after the 1500UTC event :)
[04:00] <SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.  For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating about Launchpad development.
[04:00] <SteveA> Who is here today?
[04:00] <cprov> me
[04:00] <Rinchen> me
[04:00] <mrevell> me
[04:00] <intellectronica> me
[04:00] <allenap> me
[04:00] <gmb> me
[04:00] <jtv> me
[04:00] <jamesh> me
[04:00] <salgado> me
[04:00] <sinzui> me
[04:00] <BjornT> me
[04:00] <jsk_> me
[04:00] <turox> me
[04:00] <bigjools> me
[04:00] <adeuring> me
[04:00] <matsubara> me
[04:00] <carlos> me
[04:00] <ddaa> me
[04:01] <statik> me
[04:01] <schwuk> me
[04:01] <mthaddon> me
[04:01] <damon_> me
[04:01] <danilos> me
[04:02] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[04:02] <SteveA>  * Brad Crittenden (bac) may be late or absent due to dental appointment
[04:02] <SteveA>  * <stub> I'm not available
[04:02] <SteveA>  * <mpt> I won't be here.
[04:02] <SteveA>  * barry won't be here next week
[04:03] <SteveA> The agenda
[04:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:03] <damon_> oops sorry I am an hour early, so I'm not really here :)
[04:03] <ddaa> mwhudson: was last seen going to lunch, and should be there any minute
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:03] <SteveA> ----
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Policy about what 'critical' means - SteveA
[04:03] <SteveA>  (other items)
[04:03] <SteveA> ----
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:03] <SteveA> 
[04:03] <SteveA> Next meeting, same time next week.  Anyone know they won't be here?
[04:04] <Rinchen> mwhudson here?
[04:04] <SteveA> 4
[04:04] <SteveA> 3
[04:04] <SteveA> 2
[04:04] <SteveA> 1
[04:04] <SteveA> ok
[04:04] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:04] <Rinchen> thanks ddaa 
[04:05] <kiko> me
[04:05] <SteveA>  * matsubara to get feedback from team leads about any security concerns in giving them access to the shared staging mailbox (unfinished from last week)
[04:06] <matsubara> SteveA: this week I emailed all team leads the credentials to access the staging inbox.
[04:07] <matsubara> SteveA: so I think it's done
[04:07] <SteveA> so, are you expecting a response from all team leads?
[04:07] <SteveA> like either "here are security concerns" or "I have no security concerns" ?
[04:07] <SteveA> or... is silence equivalent to "no concerns" ?
[04:07] <kiko> SteveA, we discussed the concerns on-list
[04:07] <statik> I have no security concerns
[04:07] <SteveA> ok
[04:07] <kiko> and matsubara sent the passwords out
[04:07] <Rinchen> SteveA, what kiko sent. I approved (perhaps kiko did as well).
[04:08] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:08] <SteveA> thanks guys
[04:08] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 46572, 137140, 139385
[04:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 46572 in launchpad "+ubuntupkg page needs packaging uniqueness validator" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46572
[04:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137140 in malone "Oops linking cve entry to a bug report that had the bug target modified" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137140
[04:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139385 in blueprint "OOPS searching for * (asterisk) while adding a specification dependency" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139385
[04:08] <matsubara> salgado can you take 46572?
[04:08] <matsubara> Any volunteers for bug 137140? (no volunteers last week)
[04:08] <matsubara> jsk or intellectronica: can any of you take 139385?
[04:09] <intellectronica> happy to take that
[04:09] <matsubara> thanks intellectronica 
[04:09] <salgado> matsubara, I can try to squeeze it in, but I'd gladly mentor you if you want. :)
[04:09] <Rinchen> salgado, nice try. :-)  
[04:10] <ubotu> New bug: #139385 in blueprint "OOPS searching for * (asterisk) while adding a specification dependency" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139385
[04:10] <Rinchen> matsubara, how frequent is the cve oops?
[04:10] <matsubara> BjornT: can you help me find someone for the cve one?
[04:11] <BjornT> matsubara: yeah. assign it to me.
[04:11] <gmb> I'll take it.
[04:11] <matsubara> Rinchen: not frequent. happened some times last week
[04:11] <gmb> ... or not.
[04:11] <Rinchen> thanks.
[04:11] <BjornT> gmb: well, you can take it :)
[04:11] <matsubara> thanks BjornT and gmb 
[04:12] <matsubara> is there any infrastructure way of get rid of those race conditions? 
[04:12] <SteveA> what's the race condition exactly?
[04:13] <matsubara> SteveA: when you open the same page in 2 different tabs, modify it in one and try to modify the stale page in the second tab
[04:14] <mwhudson> me (sorry)
[04:14] <BjornT> matsubara: bug 137140 is not a race condition, though
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137140 in malone "Oops linking cve entry to a bug report that had the bug target modified" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137140 - Assigned to Graham Binns (gmb)
[04:14] <BjornT> matsubara: the old page should still work
[04:14] <SteveA> matsubara: I think if a user does that, it shouldn't OOPS, but they will lose data
[04:14] <BjornT> (since it's modifying the bug, not the bugtask)
[04:15] <SteveA> at worst it should give an UFD error
[04:15] <matsubara> BjornT: sorry if I used the wrong term, but the pattern I described above (modifying an stale page) happens quite frequently and it usually oops. 
[04:16] <SteveA> we can add some infrastructure to record a kind of version number for the state of a bug
[04:16] <SteveA> and check that hasn't increased when a bug page is updated
[04:16] <SteveA> it'll get a bit complicated though
[04:17] <jsk_> SteveA: something like this may be necessary for undoing mass bug edits.
[04:17] <SteveA> so, it's something we could look into.  I don't think the problems happen often enough to make it worth the complexity just now, though
[04:17] <SteveA> certainly not in the next few development cycles
[04:17] <jamesh> we have date_last_updated, which is kind of like a version number for the bug
[04:18] <SteveA> so, we could put that in the form as a hidden field
[04:18] <SteveA> and compare that when the form is submitted
[04:18] <jamesh> (iirc, bugzilla uses the last update date for this purpose too)
[04:18] <SteveA> however, for example, adding a comment while someone edits status
[04:18] <SteveA> should not cause the status change to fail, and should not cause adding the comment to fail
[04:19] <SteveA> I don't want to design this feature in this meeting, thoughf
[04:19] <SteveA> so, let's continue in a mailing list thread
[04:19] <matsubara> right. thanks for input SteveA, jamesh 
[04:19] <SteveA> matsubara: would you start a mailing list thread about conflict detection on bug pages?
[04:19] <matsubara> SteveA: ok
[04:19] <SteveA> thanks
[04:19] <SteveA> anything else from your OOPS report?
[04:19] <matsubara> SteveA: I'm done with the oops section. thank you
[04:20] <SteveA> thanks!
[04:20] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:20] <Rinchen> Hi all. I did a round of checking last night with folks on the critical bugs and I am aware of all their current status. Thus, nothing for today unless anyone has a question. 
[04:20] <Rinchen> out of the two, 1 was on pqm and the other is merge-conditional
[04:21] <SteveA> Rinchen: any critical bugs that people from our user community would be interested in, or reassured to hear that we are working on?
[04:21] <SteveA> that's one of the purposes of having this section in the public meeting
[04:22] <Rinchen> the only of interest is to the distro team I believe which was merged.  bug 138620
[04:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138620 in soyuz "change-override.py -S doesn't move binaries with different names from source" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138620 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[04:22] <Hobbsee> as an aside, it's an interesting question about how people who know what's going on can escalate bugs which really really need to be fixed pronto, whereas the people that they're talking to dont understand the severity, as they dont do that particular area.  like with some of the ppa ones
[04:23] <SteveA> Rinchen: ok.  Please mention such bugs in this section of the meeting, or say "there are no such bugs".
[04:23] <cprov> Rinchen: it got merged (with a poor commit message, sorry) on RF 4864
[04:23] <Hobbsee> (i think that vaguely ties in with your point)
[04:23] <SteveA> cprov: mainline 4864 I assume?
[04:23] <SteveA> cprov: seeing as there are various branches in RF.
[04:23] <cprov> Rinchen: I will organize the cherrypick this afternoon
[04:23] <Rinchen> cprov, thank you sir
[04:23] <kiko> cprov, wink :)
[04:24] <cprov> SteveA: yes, mainline, sorry
[04:24] <SteveA> Hobbsee: mrevell is a good point of contact for these things
[04:24] <kiko> SteveA, RF XXXX is a synonym for RF mainline XXXX
[04:24] <SteveA> he can escalate an issue, and can also bring it up in a section of this meeting
[04:24] <cprov> kiko: yes, really sorry about that.
[04:24] <kiko> cprov, not a big deal, I was just teasing you :)
[04:24] <SteveA> kiko: that's very unclear.  I want to deprecate it.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> SteveA: indeed, assuming that he knows that we're right in telling him to escalate it.
[04:24] <mthaddon> cprov, let me know if you need me to cherry pick
[04:24] <SteveA> kiko: it causes all sorts of confusion.
[04:25] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I can always check with a colleague, either live or by mail.
[04:25] <SteveA> Hobbsee: also, matsubara is our QA lead, so you can talk to him too.
[04:25] <Hobbsee> right
[04:25] <cprov> mthaddon: yes, I need you, but I today will be really busy, have the PPA-101 meeting 
[04:25] <SteveA> however, you should only need to do that if the normal processes of using the bugtracker are not working well enough
[04:26] <Rinchen> Thanks SteveA, back to you
[04:26] <SteveA> thanks Rinchen 
[04:26] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:26] <SteveA> There are three proposals for new tags today.
[04:26] <SteveA> api: A bug related any machine readable output Launchpad provides or should provide 
[04:27] <SteveA> I'm +1 on that.  Any other comments?
[04:27] <kiko> +1
[04:27] <SteveA> edge: Bugs found by beta testers whilst using edge.
[04:28] <SteveA> there are no examples of bugs that would benefit from this tag.
[04:28] <mrevell> I added that one as beta testers are now using edge. There are, i think, two issues:
[04:28] <mrevell> 1. People won't necessarily go to check if the bug they've found on edge is also on production (I think danilos raised that)
[04:29] <mrevell> 2. We're currently suggesting people add "[edge] " to the bug summary, rather than use a tag. I'm not sure which would be preferable - tag or prefix.
[04:29] <matsubara> I'm +1 on having such tag. We could email beta testers and ask them to use launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug?field.tag=edge instead
[04:29] <kiko> I am totally -1 for [edge]  in the subject
[04:29] <kiko> subject prefixes are the devil's work
[04:30] <BjornT> why is knowing that a bug exists on edge important?
[04:30] <kiko> but BjornT's question is mine
[04:30] <Rinchen> BjornT, to fix prior to roll-out if possible.
[04:30] <kiko> it is not very useful unless it is edge only
[04:30] <danilos> I am -1 on both, as I explained earlier to mrevell: these are bugs which are serviced completely by our priorities, and there's no difference from other bugs, since they'll hit production in less than a month
[04:30] <kiko> Rinchen, only if it is edge-only
[04:30] <mthaddon> I think we need to be very careful using edge here, since there's an unused edge branch and edge uses the devel branch...
[04:30] <Rinchen> kiko, yes
[04:30] <BjornT> Rinchen: what if it's an old bug, that has existed for a long time on production?
[04:30] <Hobbsee> mrevell: we cant add tags when filing.  [edge]  is likely preferable
[04:30] <danilos> BjornT: that's exactly the concern 1 mrevell descrribed
[04:30] <SteveA> mthaddon: let's remove unused branches, or rename them to show they are obsolete
[04:31] <mthaddon> SteveA, I'm +1 for removing edge branch altogether
[04:31] <matsubara> Hobbsee: of course you can. the url above should work (at least it worked last time I tried)
[04:31] <SteveA> mthaddon: please go ahead
[04:31] <salgado> I thought the edge tag was to indicate bugs that happen only on edge?
[04:31] <mthaddon> will do, thx
[04:31] <SteveA> hang on a sec
[04:31] <SteveA> so, we're talking about wanting to identify bugs that occur on edge
[04:32] <SteveA> but not on lpnet
[04:32] <Rinchen> yes
[04:32] <BjornT> so far i'm -1 for an edge tag. i don't see a good reason for having such a tag
[04:32] <SteveA> so, that means a regression, or a fault in a new feature
[04:32] <Rinchen> yes
[04:32] <SteveA> perhaps we can describe it in those terms then
[04:32] <SteveA> if it's a regression, the tag should be 'regression'
[04:32] <mrevell> A next-release tag? Too long, perhaps.
[04:33] <SteveA> mrevell: we use targeting to a milestone or release for that
[04:33] <kiko> I am +1 for regression
[04:33] <kiko> I am -1 for edge
[04:33] <mrevell> SteveA: Right, yes.
[04:33] <salgado> what if it's a new feature that exists only on edge and is broken there?
[04:33] <intellectronica> 'regression' is nice, becuase it doesn't matter where you tested it, only that you might want to fix it before you release
[04:33] <danilos> kiko: seconded, though, we need to have someone actually use 'regression' first (i.e. someone tracking them to produce a report of regressions), otherwise we can just say in the bug comment "this is a regression"
[04:33] <Rinchen> intellectronica, maybe. :-)  The question of priority comes into play then too.
[04:34] <danilos> salgado: that's just a regular bug, imo
[04:34] <SteveA> I think it should be clear that a reporter saw the problem on edge
[04:34] <SteveA> because they'd include a URL in the report
[04:34] <SteveA> that has the word 'edge.launchpad.net' in it
[04:35] <SteveA> so, enough time on this tag
[04:35] <SteveA> I want to not approve 'edge'
[04:35] <Rinchen> mrevell, matsubara,  do you have any heart burn in not having an edge tag and/or edge subject prefix?  Based on the above discussion, I think we may want to wait until we have live reports.
[04:35] <SteveA> I'd like someone to propose 'regression' as a proposed tag, along with an explanation and links to any example bugs
[04:35] <mrevell> Rinchen: No heart burn for me.
[04:35] <Rinchen> Steve beat me to it :-) 
[04:36] <SteveA> structural-navigation
[04:36] <kiko> whatever Rinchen says
[04:36] <SteveA> we discussed this last week.  it's been refined since.  I'm +1 on it.
[04:36] <SteveA> any comments?
[04:36] <matsubara> Rinchen: no for me as well
[04:36] <kiko> FBM
[04:36] <SteveA> approved.
[04:36] <SteveA> thanks.
[04:36] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:37] <mthaddon> App Server reconfig project nearing completion (turning on apache load balancer for lpnet is the last piece of it)
[04:37] <mthaddon> That and the IP reconfig have been taking most of my time, so that's about it from me
[04:37] <SteveA> thanks mthaddon 
[04:37] <SteveA> what about the progress on pqm-in-a-chroot?
[04:38] <kiko> mthaddon, congratulations on a job well done -- I know it was hard!
[04:38] <mthaddon> I haven't had a chance to speak with IS since we spoke yesterday but am planning to do so today
[04:38] <mthaddon> SteveA, ^ about PQM in a chroot
[04:39] <SteveA> ok.  I won't be around later today.  I want to note that I'm very keen on us using standard dependencies packages
[04:39] <SteveA> and if we need to change our dependencies packages to satisfy requirements from IS, that's fine
[04:39] <SteveA> but, *no ad-hoc installs of packages*
[04:39] <mthaddon> ok, sounds good
[04:39] <Rinchen> +1
[04:39] <SteveA> thanks
[04:39] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:39] <SteveA> stub isn't here
[04:39] <SteveA> did he give a DBA report to anyone?
[04:40] <SteveA> ok, I'll mail stub asking him to send a DBA report to the list
[04:40] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:40] <Rinchen> Does anyone (besides matusbara and mpt) have any RT requests that need attention? If you are blocked on any, please speak now. 
[04:40] <kiko> Rinchen, those two that I gave you are important for PPAs
[04:40] <Rinchen> Right. mthaddon has those.
[04:40] <ubotu> New bug: #139392 in launchpad "wiki spellcheck crashes on Add checked words to dictionary" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139392
[04:40] <Rinchen> thanks kiko
[04:41] <Rinchen> anyone else?
[04:41] <bigjools> Rinchen: not blocked but will need work on mirroring for the partner archive
[04:41] <Rinchen> bigjools, did you get your cron.daily comments back?
[04:41] <bigjools> an RT is there but there is nothing to mirror yet so I'm not chasing at the moment
[04:41] <kiko> Rinchen, that's very important in fact
[04:41] <bigjools> Rinchen: yes, thanks
[04:42] <Rinchen> thanks
[04:42] <Rinchen> anyone else?
[04:42] <Rinchen> Over to you Steve
[04:42] <SteveA> thanks Rinchen 
[04:42] <Rinchen> SteveA ^^
[04:42] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:42] <mrevell> I have two issues today, both relating to download project files.
[04:42] <mrevell> If a project has downloadable files, right now we add a link to the Actions menu on the project's overview page. The "Report a bug", "Ask a question", "Help translate" and, optionally, "Mentoring available" buttons are much more visible.
[04:43] <mrevell> Martin Pool suggests that the page should have a similar "Download files" button, for those projects that have downloadable files. He has reported this as bug 139052.
[04:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139052 in launchpad "link to project downloads from the project home page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139052
[04:43] <mrevell> Martin also reports in bug 139051 that he wants to be able to add "MD5, SHA-1 or GPG signatures" to downloadable files.
[04:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139051 in launchpad "project downloads should have a space for gpg signature, sha1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139051
[04:43] <mrevell> Thanks, back to you Steve.
[04:43] <SteveA> mrevell: that's interesting.
[04:43] <SteveA> how is it a "top" issue?  have you had other complaints or indications of support for such a feature?
[04:44] <mrevell> SteveA: I chose it because it was an issue that I hadn't seen receive discussion on the list but which seemed to me to be important.
[04:44] <carlos> SteveA: the visibility problem is really a problem
[04:44] <statik> SteveA: I can remember one other request for signatures
[04:44] <carlos> It was really hard for me to find them
[04:45] <SteveA> ok, let's raise the importance of the visibility bug
[04:45] <jamesh> we have MD5 and SHA1 signatures in the database already
[04:45] <jamesh> so exposing those is trivial
[04:45] <SteveA> good point jamesh 
[04:45] <SteveA> please add that as a comment in the bug
[04:45] <SteveA> although, perhaps that's not the point...
[04:45] <SteveA> I mean, what are the signatures meant to show
[04:46] <SteveA> ?
[04:46] <SteveA> on the one hand, that you got all the bits you expected
[04:46] <statik> this brings up a question. I feel responsible for those two bugs, but was not aware of them until mrevell brought them up. do we have a process for ensuring that all new bugs are dispatched to a team lead?
[04:46] <SteveA> for other kinds of checksum / signature they're about showing that the software is actually the download that the maintainers intended you to get
[04:46] <SteveA> discussion on the list please
[04:46] <jamesh> a PGP signature tells you that you have the same file as the person who made the signature
[04:46] <SteveA> as we'
[04:46] <SteveA> re short on time
[04:46] <SteveA> thanks mrevell 
[04:47] <jamesh> a simple MD5 or SHA1 from the same source as the file isn
[04:47] <jamesh> 't a security measure
[04:47] <SteveA>  * Policy about what 'critical' means - SteveA
[04:47] <mrevell> I'll start a thread for discussion
[04:47] <SteveA> there was some confusion about what we mean by a critical bug
[04:48] <SteveA> and how this works into our policies for cherrypick requests
[04:48] <SteveA> so, Rinchen, kiko and I came up with this:
[04:48] <SteveA> https://launchpad.canonical.com/PolicyandProcess/DefinitionofCriticalPolicy
[04:48] <SteveA> the policy is pretty final
[04:48] <SteveA> the table of conditions that are "critical" needs some work
[04:49] <SteveA> we need to refine the times before something is critical
[04:49] <SteveA> and add descriptions of the bad things that can happen to various services
[04:49] <SteveA> please read the page, and mail to the list any additions or changes you recommend
[04:49] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:50] <SteveA> SC: not blocked
[04:50] <SteveA> Foundations: not blocked
[04:50] <BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
[04:50] <jtv> Translations: blocked on reviews
[04:50] <ddaa> Code: not blocked
[04:50] <Rinchen> Release Team: BLOCKED: looking for owner to bug 88265 - speculatively assigned to jamesh, RT #28907 (staging outgoing bugmail setup), RT #28415 (staging incoming email setup), RT #29080 edge oops rsync to devpad - The RT tickets have been recently commented in denoting them as blockers for Launchpad QA.
[04:50] <ubotu> Bug 88265 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/88265 is private
[04:50] <bigjools> Soyuz: not blocked
[04:50] <schwuk> hwdb: not blocked
[04:51] <statik> Collaborative Commerce: not blocked
[04:51] <SteveA> Rinchen: RT 29080 is critical, as it stops us getting value out of edge
[04:51] <Rinchen> indeed
[04:52] <SteveA> and I mean "critical"
[04:52] <SteveA> it means we could be having all sorts of failures on edge
[04:52] <SteveA> and not find out about them for a long time
[04:52] <mthaddon> SteveA, I can get any edge log for review on demand, but I agree it needs to be fixed
[04:52] <SteveA> we should either get this fixed *today*
[04:52] <SteveA> or stop directing people to edge until it is fixed
[04:53] <SteveA> we cannot direct people to edge, and ignore OOPSes that occur
[04:53] <Rinchen> I'll escalate with IS today.
[04:53] <mwhudson> SteveA: are you going to start a thread about https://launchpad.canonical.com/PolicyandProcess/DefinitionofCriticalPolicy on the mailing list?
[04:54] <SteveA> Rinchen: ok.  please note -- either we get oopses, or we turn off redirection to edge today.
[04:54] <SteveA> mwhudson: great idea.  I'll start one after the meeting.
[04:54] <kiko> SteveA, thanks for eloquently paraphrasing what I said when I discovered this months ago. :)
[04:54] <SteveA> okay, that's all
[04:54] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[04:54] <SteveA> thanks everyone!
[04:54] <kiko> yay
[04:55] <mrevell> thanks SteveA
[04:55] <mwhudson> oh
[04:55] <kiko> long meeting 
[04:55] <SteveA> sorry we ran 10 mins over time
[04:55] <kiko> but fun meeting
[04:55] <mwhudson> i won't be here next meeting
[04:55] <mrevell> Reminder: the PPA and Ubuntu Packaging 101 session starts at the top of the next hour. Agenda is at:
[04:55] <mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/PPA101
[04:55] <mwhudson> (was late and missed the appropriate time to say this)
[04:55] <mwhudson> i'll edit the agenda
[04:56] <DaveMorris> quickly before the ppa101 is there anyone here who can clear my ppa archive please
[04:56] <ubotu> New bug: #139398 in malone "In +text pages, links to attachments are missing" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139398
[04:56] <cprov> mthaddon: 4864 cherrypick request added, can you check if you have all information you need to perform it ?
[04:56] <mthaddon> will do
[04:56] <cprov> mthaddon: thanks
[04:57] <jono> hello my ppa loving friends :)
[04:57] <zakame> I heard there was a brawl between package{,r}s here
[04:57] <og3> i heard something similar
[04:58] <LaserJock> who all is here for PPA101?!
[04:58] <jrib> me
[04:58] <kiko> em
[04:58] <crookedrain> me
[04:58] <sommer> me as well
[04:58] <dholbach> me too
[04:58] <stdin> me
[04:58] <dfear_> me too
[04:58] <og3> me
[04:58] <kostkon> me
[04:58] <gonsor> <-
[04:58] <zakame> cocks a p90
[04:58] <huats> so do I
[04:58] <superm1> hey LaserJock 
[04:58] <onli> well
[04:59] <Odd_Bloke> me
[04:59] <LaserJock> cprov: are you here?
[04:59] <statik> me
[04:59] <laga> me
[04:59] <tezem> me
[04:59] <imtheface> me
[04:59] <spenser_> me
[04:59] <slavik> so ... how do I listen in and such?
[04:59] <boxobits> me
[04:59] <fredo> me
[04:59] <mrevell> LaserJock: hey
[04:59] <PaoloPinkel> me
[04:59] <LaserJock> so, who's supposed to be leading this thing?
[05:00] <jono> me
[05:00] <jono> erm
[05:00] <superm1> LaserJock, you?
[05:00] <jono> not me
[05:00] <mrevell> LaserJock: cprov twisted my arm to do it :)
[05:00] <jono> I am here for this thing
[05:00] <statik> slavik: it's just IRC, you're already in
[05:00] <predaeus> listening
[05:00] <dholbach> mrevell: sounds like he was gentle :)
[05:00] <mrevell> Hello and welcome to the PPA and Ubuntu Packaging 101 session! LaserJock has kindly already done the roll call!
[05:00] <slavik> ok, cool (making sure)
[05:01] <mrevell> Over the past few days, people have added to the session agenda at:
[05:01] <mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/PPA101
[05:01] <mrevell> I'll run through this agenda and leave the experts - i.e. cprov and LaserJock to answer :)
[05:01] <mrevell> After that, if we have time, I'll take questions from anyone who wants to put one forward.
[05:01] <mrevell> So, let's have a run-down of what's on the wiki page:
[05:02] <mrevell>       Basics of Ubuntu packaging (cprov)
[05:02] <mrevell> How to get and rebuild Ubuntu source packages
[05:02] <mrevell> Resources for packaging from scratch
[05:02] <mrevell> Common mistakes
[05:02] <mrevell> And then
[05:02] <cprov> I'm here ...
[05:02] <mrevell> Basics of PPA features (LaserJock)
[05:02] <mrevell> restarting a failed build
[05:02] <mrevell> using path overrides in dput.cf
[05:02] <mrevell> And then
[05:03] <mrevell> What is the ogre model? (cprov)
[05:03] <mrevell> PPA version consistency - how to build consistent version between PPA and Ubuntu (cprov)
[05:03] <mrevell> PPA build timeline - what happens once I upload? (LaserJock)
[05:03] <mrevell> Troubleshooting (LaserJock)
[05:03] <mrevell> Looking at a Rejected email
[05:03] <mrevell> Where to find the build status
[05:03] <mrevell> What do I do if I've made a mistake?
[05:03] <mrevell> Getting more help (LaserJock)
[05:03] <mrevell> Packing for less common architectures (khermans / Kristian Erik Hermansen)
[05:03] <mrevell> Anything that needs to be considered for amd64/sparc/ppc ?
[05:03] <mrevell> Wow, there's a lot there.
[05:04] <mrevell> So, let's kick off with you cprov and the "Basics of Ubuntu packaging"
[05:04] <LaserJock> hehe, yes, perhaps more than we'll really be able to do
[05:04] <pedahzur> I'm willing to learn all we have time for! :)
[05:04] <og3> got time till tomorrow ;)
[05:04] <LaserJock> cprov: you want me to do this one?
[05:05] <cprov> LaserJock: yes, please
[05:05] <mrevell> :)
[05:05] <LaserJock> ok, so we don't have time to launch into a big session on packaging
[05:05] <mrevell> pedahzur: We can have another session soon, if there's too much for today
[05:05] <LaserJock> but there are some basics that are useful when doing PPAs
[05:05] <pedahzur> mrevell: That's cool too.
[05:05] <LaserJock> so first off, what does PPA accept?
[05:06] <LaserJock> it accepts *source* packages
[05:06] <LaserJock> so you don't want to upload .debs
[05:06] <cprov> LaserJock:  I'm more interested in what people find 'unclear' in Ubuntu-Packaging-Guide when preparing sources for PPAs
[05:06] <LaserJock> cprov: k
[05:07] <LaserJock> anybody actually read the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
[05:07] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:07] <Ng> I have
[05:07] <boxobits> skimmed it
[05:07] <stdin> yep, it's good :)
[05:07] <Knightlust> read it too
[05:07] <jos> read it
[05:07] <pedahzur> I've read through some fo the debian packaging guide.
[05:07] <cprov> LaserJock: cause I believe that apart from 'versioning' everything in Ubuntu Packaging Guide fits PPA as well
[05:07] <ubu> read it
[05:07] <superm1> !packagingguide
[05:07] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[05:07] <superm1> for those that need it
[05:08] <damon_> I've read some of it
[05:08] <LaserJock> ok, are there any parts that people had problems with specifially when it came to PPAs?
[05:08] <damon_> and I need to read more
[05:08] <damon_> but I do have a basic question
[05:08] <damon_> what if my source code is pure python
[05:09] <superm1> well the big thing i know i ran into with PPAs off the bat was that you need to manually put the section in 
[05:09] <damon_> do I need to learn all about make files and ./config etc before I can do anything useful?
[05:09] <LaserJock> damon_: no
[05:09] <superm1> which isn't addressed in that guide
[05:09] <Ng> LaserJock: some "DUH!" explicit warnings about making sure you have a sane section would be good :)
[05:09] <superm1> since there is no override system
[05:09] <LaserJock> damon_: python packages often use distutils
[05:09] <Ng> err, what superm1 said ;)
[05:09] <LaserJock> damon_: check out a similar package from the Ubuntu archive to see how they did it
[05:09] <cprov> superm1: but it's mentioned in PPAQuickStart
[05:09] <damon_> LaserJock: thanks
[05:10] <zakame> <--- letting the build tools take charge, why read fine manuals? :P
[05:10] <vinze> So is it also possible to package e.g. GTK themes?
[05:10] <Ng> cprov: when I read that (back in dogfood) I didn't actually know what it was talking about ;)
[05:10] <LaserJock> it's possible to package basically anything
[05:10] <cprov> PPA don't automaticaly apply overrides, it doesn't propagate adjustments made on component/section/priority in previous uploads
[05:10] <superm1> cprov, indeed, but i think people might have needed a clarification on what that meant
[05:11] <zakame> ah, archive overrides file
[05:11] <LaserJock> I'm guessing people would find a sample debian/changelog file helpful?
[05:11] <cprov> superm1: yes, it definitely needs a better description then. Any suggestion ?
[05:12] <og3> samples are always good
[05:12] <cprov> LaserJock: yes, debian/{control, changelog} samples
[05:12] <laga> what has caught me a few times already: the time it takes between the upload and the availability of the source packages at least. i uploaded a package to gutsy and the same package to feisty, with the orig.tar.gz this time. the second upload was reject because the orig.tar.gz was not in the archive yet. 
[05:13] <superm1> cprov, either attaching a sample to PPAQuickStart, or just showing exactly where the section needs to be placed
[05:13] <cprov> changelog -> "bar (1.0-21) gutsy; urgency=low" and control -> "Section:  universe/web" are the important bits, IMHO
[05:14] <LaserJock> and the versioning
[05:14] <LaserJock> I guess that's in there, nvm
[05:14] <mrevell> Thanks everyone for your questions but let's allow LaserJock to continue and then have questions later.
[05:15] <xhaker> cprov, LaserJock: as laga pointed out, ppa requires you to upload the orig.tar.gz . Is there any plans to make ppa able to find the corresponding orig.tar.gz when it is somewhere in ubuntu.
[05:15] <LaserJock> Ok, so I wanted to say that remember that we deal with source packages, that is .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz normally
[05:15] <zakame> as said, let LaserJock shoot you guys first, then we'll ask questions later
[05:16] <LaserJock> now, to start with you might find it easiest to take an existing Ubuntu package
[05:16] <LaserJock> you can either apt-get source <packagename>
[05:16] <LaserJock> and note that you shouldn't do that with sudo
[05:17] <LaserJock> or you can get the files from Launchpad or archive.ubuntu.com
[05:18] <LaserJock> you can then mess around in the unpacked source package ( dpkg-source -x <package>.dsc if it isn't unpacked already)
[05:18] <LaserJock> and to rebuild it you can do debuild -S (which is a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot)
[05:18] <LaserJock> if you need to include the .orig.tar.gz in the upload, like the first time you have that .orig.tar.gz in your PPA
[05:19] <LaserJock> then add -sa , debuild -S -sa
[05:19] <LaserJock> the packages need to be signed with your gpg key (the same one that's on Launchpad)
[05:19] <LaserJock> so make sure that the email address in your changelog entry is the same as in your gpg key
[05:20] <LaserJock> I would strongly suggest that people test their source package by building them locally into .debs
[05:20] <LaserJock> a good way to do that is with pbuilder
[05:20] <superm1> its much more time consuming and annoying to let the PPA fail to build than it is to do it locally
[05:20] <DaveMorris> for signing you can also use debsign -k<key-id> <program>_source.changes
[05:21] <cprov> xhaker: allowing file lookups in ubuntu archive would be helpful, we are investigating the implications in the archive, let me find the specific bug
[05:21] <LaserJock> superm1: exactly
[05:21] <LaserJock> pbuilder creates a minimal Ubuntu envioronment in a chroot
[05:22] <LaserJock> and and it provides a "clean room" because all the changes are dropped at then end of each session
[05:23] <LaserJock> I don't seem to have it on me, but I made a script that allows you to easiy create and use pbuilders
[05:23] <zakame> just to add: you'd want to look into /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends to be able to get the depencies for your package prior to building ;)
[05:23] <LaserJock> I'll email the launchpad-users list with a URL later
[05:23] <stdin> There a guide to create/use pbuilder on the wiki -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[05:24] <LaserJock> in any case you can have multiple pbuilders
[05:24] <LaserJock> one for each Ubuntu release for example
[05:24] <LaserJock> so you can be running Feisty and build Gutsy .debs
[05:24] <LaserJock> I would highly recommend testing *each* source package before you upload
[05:24] <bordy> .away
[05:25] <bordy> oops sorry
[05:25] <LaserJock> simply as a way to minimize problems
[05:25] <LaserJock> with lots of packages in the build queues, etc. it can take a while to get a package into the PPA archive
[05:25] <tezem> LaserJock: for every Ubuntu release seperately?
[05:25] <LaserJock> yes
[05:26] <LaserJock> I have a pbuilder for each of, dapper, edgy, feisty, gutsy, and debain unstable
[05:26] <LaserJock> I can build .debs for any of them
[05:27] <LaserJock> ok, any packaging specific questions?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: can i have a pony?
[05:27] <LaserJock> I don't want to take up too much time here with packaging
[05:27] <cprov> guys, we have to hurry up, otherwise we won't have time to address other important topics
[05:27] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: didn't I already give you one
[05:27] <Hobbsee> i think it got lost in transit..
[05:28] <Hobbsee> woo!
[05:28] <cprov> ACTION: extend PPAQuickStart to cover common-mistakes in packaging (control & changelog samples, debuild -S -sa, etc)
[05:28] <LaserJock> also note that the Packaging Guide is a community project, any help, proofreading, etc. is appreciated
[05:28] <mrevell> Contributions to the PPA guide are also welcome
[05:29] <mrevell> Thanks LaserJock
[05:29] <LaserJock> oh, right, I forgot to say something
[05:29] <mrevell> go ahead :)
[05:29] <cprov> ACTION: describe the use of pbuilder as a way to wait too long to find out packaging mistakes
[05:29] <LaserJock> *Note*: the help.launchpad.net wiki is open to everybody
[05:29] <LaserJock> please help with documentation when you can
[05:30] <mrevell>  Any further questions for Laserjock specifically to do with packaging, before we move on?
[05:30] <mrevell> Okay
[05:30] <afranke> cprov: a way *not* to wait too long?
[05:30] <mrevell> Basics of PPA features (LaserJock)
[05:30] <cprov> afranke: yes, sorry ... 
[05:31] <cprov> LaserJock: can I drive this ?
[05:31] <LaserJock> yes
[05:31] <mrevell> cprov: PLease do :)
[05:31] <LaserJock> I asked questions when I wanted cprov to answer them ;-)
[05:32] <cprov> ok, PPA UI allow users to 'retry' failed builds
[05:32] <laga> cprov: does it also allow users to rebuild completed builds?
[05:33] <cprov> laga:  no, only failed builds. Once a build is completed it gets published in the archive, so a 'rebuild' as this point would be a bin-NMU which is not allowed in ppas
[05:33] <geser> laga: that wouldn't be wise as this could create debs with the same name (and version) but different dependencies
[05:33] <laga> k
[05:34] <cprov> laga: if you want to rebuild a completed build you have to upload a new version of the source in question
[05:34] <laga> thanks. thought as much.
[05:35] <cprov> the 'retry' link is presented for PPA owners on the left-top portlet in the build page 
[05:35] <cprov> has everyone noticed it ?  is it clear to get in the build page ?
[05:36] <laga> tbh, i hadn't noticed it until i was told it was there
[05:37] <cprov> laga: but you do receive a build-failure-notification email with direct links, no ?
[05:37] <DaveMorris> I didn't know before, but it's easy once your told, but how do you reupload the source file, the same as before?
[05:38] <cprov> DaveMorris: yes, just follow the established procedure
[05:38] <DaveMorris> my email's did't have direct links to rebuild
[05:38] <cprov> DaveMorris: the link points to the "build page"
[05:39] <DaveMorris> yeah that one is there, 
[05:39] <cprov> where you can find out if it's a temporary failure (which could be sorted by a rebuild) or if it's permanent, like a broken source or a ogre-model failure
[05:40] <LaserJock> cprov: if a build fails do we upload with the same versioning or do we need to bump?
[05:41] <cprov> anyway, I think we should add a small section on PPAQuickStart describing how to deal with "build-failures". What do you think ?
[05:41] <zakame> by all means
[05:41] <zakame> sooner or later builds will fail ;)
[05:42] <cprov> LaserJock: same version would be reject ;) uploads have to use higher versions always 
[05:42] <LaserJock> norsetto: you upload a package and it doesn't build
[05:42] <Hobbsee> cprov: oh do they?  they didnt a few days ago
[05:42] <laga> cprov: yes, i get emails. but i don't always click on everything in there ;)
[05:43] <cprov> ACTION:  add a new section in PPAQuickStart describing how to deal with build failures (notification, checking, retrying)
[05:43] <LaserJock> excellent
[05:43] <DaveMorris> won't a revison bump make it appear as a new build though, rather than rebuilding the previous build?
[05:44] <mrevell> cprov: I wonder if you could talk a little about the ogre model next?
[05:44] <cprov> laga: you should, a build notification contains the timestamps, status an links to the build page and its buildlog
[05:45] <cprov> DaveMorris: yes, new source versions will generate new builds and that's what you want. The old build records will remain as "failed".
[05:46] <cprov> mrevell: yes, let's skip 'distroseries/suite overrides' because it sounds too complicated for this stage
[05:46] <mrevell> Okay thanks cprov
[05:47] <Derevko> old packages versions are marked as "PendingRemoval", when they will be removed?
[05:47] <cprov> * What is ogre-model ? why my package fails to get a build-dependency that is available in ubuntu ?
[05:47] <cprov> Derevko: backend will be added in the next LP release cycle (in two weeks)
[05:48] <Derevko> cprov: ok, thanks
[05:48] <cprov> Ogre-model is a mechanism to force build-dependencies to be in the same or lower components
[05:49] <cprov> i.e., source in main can only build-depend on binaries in main, source in universe can build-depend on binaires in main, restricted, universe
[05:50] <mrevell> ACTION: Draw chart of ogre model for help.lp.net
[05:50] <mrevell> cprov: Hobbsee suggested that "ogre model" is a confusing term. Would you agree?
[05:51] <cprov> mrevell: we can think about another name, but that's the term used in debian and ubuntu.
[05:51] <mrevell> cprov: thanks.
[05:51] <mrevell> So, does anyone have any questions about how the ogre model applies to PPA?
[05:52] <cprov> currently, ogre-model failures can only be solved by another source upload
[05:52] <superm1> alright so wrg to ogre-model, it only deals with build-dependencies 
[05:52] <bluefoxicy> hey someone save a transcript of the debian package repo thing that's going on today and e-mail it to john.r.moser@gmail.com
[05:52] <cprov> which will adjust the source component
[05:52] <bluefoxicy> I missed it totally
[05:53] <bluefoxicy> it was like an hour ago or something
[05:53] <mrevell> bluefoxicy: If you mean the PPA and Ubuntu Packaging 101 session, it's happening now and the log will be available at https://help.launchpad.net/PPA101 - subscribe to that wiki page to see when the log is added
[05:54] <bluefoxicy> k
[05:54] <cprov> superm1: sorry, I didn't get you point.
[05:54] <bluefoxicy> mrevell: thanks
[05:54] <superm1> cprov, i made sense of it, nvm
[05:54] <mrevell> bluefoxicy: np, welcome to the session :)
[05:54] <mrevell> okay, any other ogr emodel questions?
[05:54] <mrevell> If not, we may just have time for:
[05:54] <mrevell> PPA version consistency - how to build consistent version between PPA and Ubuntu (cprov)
[05:55] <Hobbsee> cprov: if it's the term used in debian and ubuntu, how come most of the MOTU's dont recognise it?
[05:55] <superm1> Hobbsee, because its something that we normally wouldn't be exposed to since there is an override system on the archive?
[05:56] <cprov> Hobbsee: dunno, I didn't know it in debian either, but it's being referred like that since I implemented it two years ago
[05:56] <Hobbsee> cprov: the highups may know about it.
[05:56] <Hobbsee> superm1: depends if you ever upload to main.  if you puload to main, even in ubuntu, you'll get depwaits if you build-dep on universe packages.
[05:56] <cprov> Hobbsee: and superm1 is right, with auto-overrides uploads almost never notice it
[05:57] <cprov> Hobbsee: we very rarely have uploads to main in ubuntu, they usually get promoted/overridden from universe
[05:58] <Hobbsee> cprov: sure, but if you upload a newer version fo what's already there, it'll land in main
[05:58] <Hobbsee> (if the original was in main)
[05:58] <cprov> let's carry on, I think that the ogre-model chart suggested by mrevell with a clear description would sort this issue
[05:58] <mrevell> cprov: Along with a text description that will hopefully clear up any naming issues.
[05:59] <cprov> Hobbsee: yes, even if the Section is "universe/<section>", that's auto-override fault.
[05:59] <mrevell> We have one minute left, so I propose that we have another session perhaps early next week. cprov, LaserJock would you be happy to take part?
[05:59] <cprov> Hobbsee: once we have UI to allow manual overrides in PPAs we can enable auto-overrides too
[06:00] <Hobbsee> but, ok
[06:00] <cprov> +1 for a new session soon
[06:00] <gnomefreak> ppa is no longer beta right?
[06:00] <LaserJock> I don't know what I'll be able to do but I'm +1 for another session
[06:00] <laga> gnomefreak: it's still beta
[06:00] <mrevell> gnomefreak: PPA is in beta but on Launchpad's production site
[06:01] <gnomefreak> ah ok i thought it was released with last LP release
[06:01] <mrevell> Great, thanks very much both to cprov and LaserJock, and to everyone for coming! PLease post further questions to the wonderful launchpad-users list
[06:01] <LaserJock> it was released to Beta Testers
[06:01] <mrevell> which you can subscribe to at:
[06:01] <mrevell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/listinfo/launchpad-users
[06:01] <laga> yes, thanks cprov and LaserJock 
[06:01] <LaserJock> Also, in case you didn't know, the Ubuntu MOTU teams is a great place to get packages into Ubuntu
[06:02] <huats> thanks for al these explainations
[06:02] <mrevell> There's already quite a bit of PPA discussion on there. cprov and I are here a lot of the time if you need further IRC help.
[06:02] <LaserJock>  so #ubuntu-motu and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[06:02] <mrevell> Please let me know what days and times are good for you for another session.
[06:02] <mrevell> thanks all, see you again soon!
[06:02] <mrevell> SESSION ENDS
[06:03] <cprov> thank you guys, keep posting doubts and bugs on launchpad-user@
[06:03] <Igorot> thanks guys.. very informative..
[06:03] <superm1> cprov, re bugs, will we be seeing the lp.net/~user/+packages page cleaned up from things that aren't supposed to be there once that bug is resolved/
[06:03] <dholbach> good work LaserJock, cprov and mrevell! :)
[06:03] <mrevell> thank dholbach :)
[06:04] <laga> can i add a quick ppa question?
[06:04] <laga> hihi
[06:04] <laga> wrong channel, sorry. ;)
[06:04] <cprov> superm1: it's a bug, they should, at least, be in a separated category.
[06:04] <cprov> superm1: do we have a bug for that ?
[06:04] <superm1> cprov, yes i filed one for it
[06:04] <superm1> let me find it
[06:04] <mrevell> LaserJock, cprov: gimme five minutes before we debrief
[06:05] <cprov> btw, PPA bugs can be inspected at https://edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bugs?field.tag=ppa
[06:05] <superm1> bug 135669
[06:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135669 in soyuz "PPA uploads are showing up on lp.net/~user/+packages" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135669 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[06:05] <cprov> don't forget 'ppa' tag and product 'soyuz'
[06:05] <cprov> superm1: right, I will get this done soon
[06:05] <superm1> cool thx
[06:06] <geser> cprov: could it be make possible to fetch orig.tar.gz from the normal archive when one uploads new revisions of packages in the Ubuntu archive to ppa?
[06:07] <laga> ah, i'll just ask: why can't i upload the same package with the same version number to gutsy and feisty? i have to create the diff.gz and .dsc because i need to change the distribution in debian/changelog, that's why it's rejected (IMHO). is this a bug or intentional behaviour?
[06:07] <cprov> geser: this is a complex issue because we don't want to tie files in separated archives
[06:07] <geser> cprov: I tested a new library on ppa the last days and wanted to testbuild depending packages with in on PPA and had to upload the whole source for them
[06:08] <LaserJock> laga: I think the answer may be do to PPAs using a pool structure
[06:08] <cprov> geser:  as it is today, versions in PPA belongs to a isolated domain which makes it *easier* to deal with versions 
[06:09] <laga> LaserJock: care to explain?
[06:09] <stdin> laga: and there is no *-backports in ppa's
[06:09] <LaserJock> laga: I think that all the actuall .debs get put in the same directory
[06:10] <LaserJock> laga: so you can't have to versions with the same version, they would overwrite each other
[06:10] <laga> oh.
[06:10] <cprov> LaserJock: not really, PPA archives use the same structure used in ubuntu primary archive (pool and dists)
[06:10] <LaserJock> well, the same thing goes of Ubuntu
[06:10] <cprov> we decided to only allow upload to RELEASE pocket to simplify the upload workflow
[06:11] <geser> laga: all debs get stored in the same directory and only the packages files (fetched by apt) know which files belong to this release
[06:11] <cprov> since the release we are investigating a lot of simplifications like that, to make PPAs simpler than ubuntu primary archive
[06:11] <geser> laga: so you can't have the same version (which is also the same file name) but different depends (due to different releases)
[06:11] <mrevell> cprov, LaserJock: Thanks again for your efforts just now. I shall put the raw log onto the help wiki page and also provide an edited version. I think we need a plan for the next session to ensure we can cover a realistic amount of ground, whilst allowing enough time for questions at the end.
[06:12] <laga> geser: alright, thanks for the explanation everyone.
[06:14] <LaserJock> cprov: I wonder if a pool structure is really the best choice for PPAs
[06:14] <LaserJock> generally pools are used when you have a large number of packages, like a distro
[06:14] <cprov> LaserJock:  yes, but for us it's easier to use "what we already have"
[06:14] <LaserJock> I assumed you used pools because that's what is used for Ubuntu so the structure, I assume, was already in soyuz
[06:15] <cprov> LaserJock: and also it's doesn't add that much cruft
[06:17] <mrevell> cprov, LaserJock: Do you want to email me with some suggested times/dates for the next session?
[06:17] <LaserJock> mrevell: ok, well, I think a PPA documentation blitz would help
[06:17] <cprov> mrevell: are the ACTION points clear enough to be extracted and addressed at some point (today or tomorrow)
[06:17] <mrevell> cprov: Yes, I can look after those this week.
[06:17] <cprov> mrevell: obviously, I can help 
[06:18] <mrevell> cprov: Possibly not tonight, but certainly tmorrow.
[06:18] <mrevell> LaserJock: Other than the ACTION points, do you have any specific doc requests/suggestions?
[06:18] <LaserJock> not really, the action points where the ones that I saw
[06:19] <LaserJock> will PPA be out of beta with the next rollout?
[06:19] <cprov> LaserJock: we are still deciding
[06:19] <LaserJock> so either 2 weeks or 6 weeks from now?
[06:19] <mrevell> yep
[06:19] <mrevell> thanks guys.
[06:20] <LaserJock> well, I think maybe having another session after the next rollout would be good
[06:20] <cprov> LaserJock: we will probably keep users restricted to lp-beta-testers for more one cycle
[06:20] <tuxcrafte1> did i miss the PPA
[06:20] <gnomefreak> tuxcrafte1: yep
[06:20] <tuxcrafte1> gnomefreak: ok, to bad
[06:20] <mrevell> tuxcrafte1: Subscribe to the https://help.launchpad.net/PPA101 wiki page
[06:21] <mrevell> tuxcrafte1: and you'll get notification of when the next session is
[06:21] <mrevell> tuxcrafte1: along with notification of when I add the log of today's session
[06:21] <mrevell> LaserJock: Do you we should leave it that long?
[06:21] <mrevell> LaserJock: the next session, I mean
[06:28] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:29] <LaserJock> I just know that I'm not able to do much
[06:29] <LaserJock> you guys do them as often as you want
[06:29] <LaserJock> and I'll try to help as much as I can
[06:29] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: that doesnt sound like you taking a break :P
[06:29] <LaserJock> but I can't be doing these every week :-)
[06:29] <LaserJock> bah
[06:34] <LaserJock> FYI: if anybody is looking for a pbuilder script, I put one up at http://laserjock.us/ubuntu/pbuilder-dist
[06:40] <ubotu> New bug: #139420 in soyuz "Upload system version check is inconsistent with the one done in Domination" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139420
[06:50] <ubotu> New bug: #139422 in launchpad "Successfully uploaded to PPA, but no compile" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139422
[06:52] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/139422 <-- or you could just learn to be patient...
[06:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139422 in launchpad "Successfully uploaded to PPA, but no compile" [Undecided,New]  
[06:59] <tezem> What means the status triaged in the bug tracker?
[07:06] <mangz74> wekekeke
[07:46] <hagna> wow one click downloads that's revolutionary
[07:46] <hagna> amazon might sue you
[08:10] <LaserJock> tezem: it means that somebody has had a look at the bug and it is ready to be acted upon, I think
[08:10] <LaserJock> although I'm quite confused still about triaged vs. complete
[08:11] <LaserJock> and I'll take this oppritunity to again say that "triaged" is a horrible name for a status :-)
[08:12] <kiko> LaserJock, I was against it, but I lost.
[08:12] <kiko> LaserJock, I think it means "ready to be worked on"
[08:13] <LaserJock> ok, but how is that really different than "complete"?
[08:13] <LaserJock> a complete bug is ready to be worked on, no?
[08:21] <tezem> fakeACTION: rename triaged into something meaningful ;-)
[08:25] <ubotu> New bug: #139441 in launchpad-bazaar "Last changed branches list" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139441
[08:30] <ubotu> New bug: #139444 in soyuz "Suggested UI changes" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139444
[08:31] <tezem> If I make a new package which was never in Ubuntu and debian should I make it unstable in the changelog or should I use a distri?
[08:33] <stdin> tezem: use the normal release name, unstable isn't an ubuntu release name so that wouldn't work
[08:33] <stdin> so dapper, edgy, feisty or gutsy
[08:33] <tezem> if I intend to release for feisty and gutsy?
[08:34] <stdin> then you need have a 2 versions 
[08:35] <stdin> I tend to use ~feisty for "backports"
[09:40] <tezem> I try to make the source package with debuild -S and it asks for my PGP passphrase which I enter correct but then I get "gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use" and so on.
[09:40] <tezem> Any suggestions?
[09:45] <stdin> tezem: does it sign the file tho?
[09:45] <laga> tezem: you using a gpg agent? on feisty?
[09:48] <tezem> stdin: yes there is a dsc.asc which looks allright.
[09:48] <tezem> laga: I use seahorse
[09:49] <stdin> tezem: do you have gnupg-agent installed?
[09:50] <tezem> stdin: no but I installed it now
[09:51] <stdin> tezem: well, you can do that :) but you could also put " no-use-agent" in your ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf file 
[09:51] <stdin> tezem: to use gpg-agent you'll need to logout and back in tho
[09:53] <tezem> stdin: ok worked with no-use-agent, thx
[09:53] <stdin> :)
[10:01] <geser> tezem: know problem with seahorse and devscripts on feisty
[10:01] <geser> tezem: see bug #78165 for a workaround. this is fixed already in gutsy.
[10:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent or gpg-agent" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
[10:44] <Kopfgeldjaeger> cu
[10:50] <ubotu> New bug: #139465 in launchpad-bazaar "Filtered branch listing suggests unfiltered listing when there is no branch" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139465
[10:58] <tezem> I get ": Unable to locate package gdc-4.1" when I try to build my deb package. I guess there is something wrong with my dep line -> gdc-4.1 (>= 0.24-4.1.2-16). This package is available in gutsy only and I try in a gutsy pbuilder.
[11:21] <tezem> I get "E: dsss_0.72.1-1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy" when building my source package, what can be the reason for this?
[11:24] <tristanbob> looks like I missed the Packaging meeting?
[11:25] <kiko> yes :)
[11:25] <tezem> tristanbob: yes but there is somewhere a log file
[11:25] <tristanbob> tezem: I'm looking at it now :)
[11:26] <tristanbob> I want to create my first package!
[11:29] <tezem> when I try to build my package in my gutsy pbuilder env. the package gdc-4.1 is not found and I don't understand why. Can somebody help me with this dep?
[11:50] <ubotu> New bug: #139479 in launchpad "Change the owner of a team says teamowner in the header instead of team owner" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139479