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Tm_Told news: http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Wiki/Press_release-Ubuntu_CDs_for_Finnish_parliament_representatives06:26
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Hobbseemanchicken: adepts changelogs...how does it implement them?10:28
Hobbseemanchicken: please see my comments on bug 13638110:31
ubotuLaunchpad bug 136381 in adept "Adept doesn't show changelogs." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13638110:31
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mhbgood morning starshine11:58
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aantipopany idea why ccsm on gutsy has no icons ?12:12
mhbaantipop: isn't that a Gtk app?12:22
aantipopyes depends on python-gtk212:27
aantipopbut the hole compiz-fusion thing is made for kde too, there is libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig and and compiz-kde metapackage12:31
aantipopso there should be items for the settings-manager :/12:31
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blekoshi, has anybody managed to compile gnucash 2.212:42
gnomefreakblekos: why ar eyou asking that in a kubuntu devel channel? isnt that a gnome app?12:45
blekosi'm using kubuntu gutsy, so I thought for a correct compilation for my system I should ask smn with relevant sys12:46
gnomefreakblekos: i believe it only needs gtk libs so it wont matter about kubuntu you would have to install the needed libs to build it12:50
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\sh_awayhey Riddell01:48
Riddelldid I miss anything?01:48
apokryphoshi Riddell. Just a note that about after 2 weeks (or whatever), I got that guy to send me the kickoff source that he has (link: http://francis.giannaros.org/files/kicker-kickoff-kubuntu.tar.gz ). No idea if that's useful 8)01:50
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mhbRiddell: hey!01:52
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mhbRiddell: you missed me locating the evil konsole kpart bug01:53
mhbRiddell: I hope you enjoyed the vacation01:53
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Riddellmhb: you did??02:01
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mhbRiddell: well, recompiling the old konsole actually made it work02:02
mhbRiddell: so I diffed file after file and tried02:02
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Riddellold konsole?  like KDE 3.5.5?02:07
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mhbRiddell: yes.02:08
Riddellmm, I tried that, didn't make any difference02:10
Riddellmhb: so where did you find the problem?02:10
mhbRiddell: just uploaded the patch (actually a diff of two files between 3.5.5 and 3.5.7) to bug 11773102:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 117731 in python-kde3 "Python crashes after attaching pty to a konsole kpart" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11773102:11
mhbthere's a QPtrVector code which has changed, so I guess the error is in there02:12
mhbRiddell: I built a 3.5.7 package with this patch applied, and both me and ScottK tested it with positive results02:14
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mhbRiddell: also, http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/7599.html might be a good read when you have some spare time (KDE devs blog about Kubuntu quite often, though)02:22
manchickenLongPointyStick: That's a seriously useful hint.02:24
manchickenLongPointyStick: I would have never gotten that.02:24
manchickenLongPointyStick: I think it's also happening for restricted packages.02:24
manchickenLongPointyStick: restricted modules seems to have the same thing happening.02:25
manchickenLongPointyStick: Do they have source packages to rely on?02:25
manchickenRiddell: I'm running a Software Freedom Day no-charge community computer workshop today.02:26
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manchickenRiddell: It should be interesting to see if I can get the local kubuntuers and KDErs to come out and join me.  That'd be nice to be able to find a team I could sprint with.02:26
manchickenallee: So how're things going?  Sorry to have had to run so quickly yesterday.02:31
alleemanchicken: np. me too.  And again.  in 15 min is IRC deadline02:32
alleemanchicken: so things are busy are you may have guesssed02:32
alleemanchicken: right now I'm fighting my way through launchpad project and team (fai)02:32
manchickenI know the feeling.  I've got a computer workshop to run in 4.5 hours.02:32
alleemanchicken: heh, here it BBB of my son at the school.02:33
manchickenMy washing machine caught fire yesterday, so I had to deal with the fire department and all of that interesting.02:33
\shallee, what are you trying (FAI) ?02:33
alleemanchicken: oh, oh.  Sounds like interesting hours :)02:33
manchickenallee: Gosh, I tell you the neighborhood kids got one hell of a show.  That's for sure.02:34
Hobbseemanchicken: did you see what i said above, btw?02:34
allee\sh: siretart has created a fai team in lauchpad02:34
\shallee, ahhh02:34
manchickenallee: My neighbors are probably thinking "what the hell is wrong with this guy?  He moves in and two weeks later he's already burning the place down!"02:34
allee\sh: never really used bazaar before02:34
\shallee, easy ;)02:34
manchickenHobbsee: Yes.  Do restricted packages have source packages?02:34
allee\sh: yeah, what is were in lauchpad is the tuffer part02:35
\shallee, I wonder if siretart had a talk to thomas...02:35
manchickenHobbsee: The way it currently implements the changelogs is it takes the package and tries to construct a URL based on the current package.02:35
manchickenHobbsee: I could have a more complete answer later if you'd like one.02:35
allee\sh Thomas was on IRC when we talked about it yesterday.02:35
Hobbseemanchicken: l-r-m has a source, yes02:35
\shallee, ah on oftc?02:36
manchickenHobbsee: What about vmware?02:36
Hobbseemanchicken: right, but you need to check where the current packages *source* resides.02:36
Hobbseenot the binary02:36
manchickenHobbsee: I need a consistent pattern that I can work off of.02:36
Hobbseewhich is what i expect you do now02:36
allee\sh: I hope merging stuff pack to fai svn or debian bts will prove uncomplicated.  I don't want to give he impression we fork02:36
Hobbseeindeed.  so use the component where the source is located, not the binary.  changelogs.u.c goes via sources02:36
manchickenWell, I don't necessarily work off of the binary.  If you go to a source package I'll go off of the source package.  I just go for the current package.02:37
\shallee, that's the worst way what we can do...a fork of something which works really nicely regardin ubuntu and debian02:37
=== allee crosses his fingers that manchicken never move to a flat in his hour. Next fire dept too far away :)
manchickenallee: Nice.02:37
alleemanchicken: yeah, would be too much fire for a BBB ;)02:37
manchickenallee: I think I'm too crazy for Europe.  Only in America do they let crazies like me run free.02:37
Hobbseemanchicken: do you see what i'm saying?02:38
manchickenHobbsee: Yeah.02:38
\shmanchicken, or send to them to Cuba ,-)02:38
Hobbseemanchicken: ahh.  well there's the problem02:38
Hobbseeif they're going via a binary, you need to find teh corresponding source package, and then grab the changelog from that02:38
manchickenHobbsee: I'm just worried that it's going to be klugy and hackish to implement because it would be based on an inconsistent pattern.02:38
Hobbseemanchicken: i cant see how that's inconsistant, though02:38
\shmanchicken, in Europe you can do this: http://www.sourcecode.de/node/91402:39
manchickenHobbsee: is there a "kate-src" package?02:39
manchickenHobbsee: Because there is a "kate" package.02:39
alleeBBB bbl (hopefully).  Bye02:39
\shhave fun allee02:39
manchickenIt points to another one, but the string that is being used is still "kate"02:40
manchickenWhat does "BBB" mean?  I'm not familiar with that acronym.02:40
Hobbseemanchicken: whatever apt-cache showsrc kate gives you02:40
\shmanchicken, what are you trying?02:40
\shmanchicken, barbecue02:41
manchicken\sh: Ah.  Do you know the direct expansion?  I'm curious now :)02:42
manchickenHobbsee: Hmm... I only hope libapt makes it that convenient to get to.02:42
manchickenIf it does than this fix may be mindnumbingly simple.02:42
\shmanchicken, the normal abbrev should be BBC02:42
\shmanchicken, sorry...BBQ02:43
Hobbseemanchicken: i have no idea, but aptitude changelog also has the same bug.02:43
manchicken\sh: Very true.  Barbecue has a shockingly scarce need for the letter "Q"02:43
Hobbseemanchicken: i know none of libapt at all, sorry.02:43
manchickenHobbsee: Well right now I'll focus on adept, and I'll see about aptitude later but make no promises. :)02:43
\shHobbsee, what is the problem?02:43
manchickenRiddell: Do you know if your adept repository is up to date?02:44
Hobbseemanchicken: cool02:44
Hobbsee\sh: the changelog function in adept02:44
\shHobbsee, and it fetches somehow wrong or none changelog?02:45
Hobbsee\sh: for sources that are in a different component to their binaries02:46
\shHobbsee, ah source in universe but 1 out of 3 binary packs in main ;)02:46
Hobbsee\sh: usually the other way around.02:47
Hobbseebut, yes02:47
\shhmm....check where the source is...you have the first letter so you can create a URL for the four sections...and if one section match use it to fetch the changelog from c.u.c02:51
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Hobbseemanchicken: this stuff is a bitch.03:47
=== Hobbsee is looking thru the aptitude source, and has found the problem, but doesnt know anywhere near enough of apt's internals to fix it.
=== Hobbsee will have to bug mvo
manchickenhe likes being bugged :)04:00
manchickenback later04:01
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Jucatohappy software freedom day :)05:04
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mhbJucato: to you too05:56
Jucatojust got back from our celebration here. Ubuntu was distributed with the kits. unfortunately no kubuntu...05:58
Jucatobut at least KDE in some forms were well represented05:58
mhbhow many python-kde projects do we have?06:02
mhbI mean those that are targeted at Kubuntu06:02
mhbgdebi-kde is in python, restricted-manager-kde is, kde-guidance is, and?06:02
Jucatoall guidance stuff, software-properties, gdebi06:03
Jucatooh restricted-manager too? I see06:03
stdinyep, restricted manager is06:03
Jucatowell basically every Kubuntu-specific GUI app seems to be python-based06:04
mhbJucato: right. Do you know of any more?06:04
Jucatoat the moment. no06:04
Jucatohow about strigiapplet?06:05
Jucatothe one in the system tray? oh..06:06
mhbJucato: how's your C++ skills doing?06:07
Jucatostarting with object-oriented stuff next week most probably06:08
Jucatoinheritance, polymorphism, operator overloading, templates06:08
=== stdin thinks he's got the basics of C++ down now, maybe
stdinI made this yesterday, as a kind of self test: http://stdin.pastebin.us/3954006:10
Jucatoat first glance the breaks in the switch seem to be redundant :)06:11
stdinyeah, but it's how I leant how to use them, so it's like habit ;)06:12
Jucatowell, in this case it's a good habit anyway06:12
HobbseeJucato: please teach me inheritance and the next 2 bits :P06:13
JucatoHobbsee: if and when I myself understand them. a bit scary...06:13
Jucatoit's like the pointers of C++ :)06:13
Hobbseepointers are...yeah06:13
=== Jucato still loves the const int const *ptr; declarations in his book :)
Jucato"ptr is a constant pointer to a constant int" :)06:14
Jucatojust lovely :)06:14
Hobbseewhy not just declare teh constant int and be done with it?  if you cant move the pointer anyway...06:15
=== Hobbsee should do her assignment at some point.
Hobbseeit's bracketed trees06:15
Jucatoconst int *ptr; // you can make ptr point to something else06:15
Hobbseestdin: ew.06:15
Hobbseestdin: for what do you need such major switch statements?06:15
Jucatoint const *ptr; // you can't make ptr point to something else, but you can change the value of what it's pointing to06:15
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Jucatoconst int const *ptr; // you basically can't do anything :P06:16
stdinHobbsee: I'm 1/2 way through my 1st book, give me a break; ;)06:16
Hobbseestdin: just thinking that it's a weird thing that you're trying to do.06:16
HobbseeJucato: heh06:16
Hobbseestdin: btw, case 1: return foo;06:17
Jucatostdin: btw, according to my book (just according to it) const would be preferred to #define06:17
Hobbseealso works06:17
Hobbseeif you're wanting to cut space a bit.06:17
=== Hobbsee dislikes case statements.
Jucatowhat? you love using else if ladders? :)06:17
stdinHobbsee: it was just a way to see if I got some basics down, not supposed to be "elegant" :)06:17
Hobbseestdin: ahhh.06:18
HobbseeJucato: depends.  usually there's a way to modify what happens so you dont need either.06:18
Jucatoyeah, coz if his elegance/tabbing would be graded, I'd give him a C or D :D06:18
HobbseeJucato: although one of my assignments used a massive switch table, iirc.06:18
HobbseeJucato: the trouble with switches, i find, is that they dont let you evaluate an expression inside of htem - it's only case 1, 2, 3, ... or a, b, c, ...06:18
Jucatothat would be the use of else if ladders :)06:19
Hobbseefgets?  hmm.  havent seen that before06:19
=== Jucato thought that was a C function
stdinfgets is a "safe" version of gets06:20
stdindoesn't let the input overrun the string06:20
=== Hobbsee tends to use while ( cin >> input)
Jucatowhy not use a string instead?06:21
Hobbseeor cin.get06:21
Hobbseeoh, it it getline?06:21
JucatoI believe so06:21
=== Hobbsee notes that she needs to actually read her textbook before next semester
=== Jucato leaves stdin to what he'sdoing :)
Hobbseetheyr'e introducing stuff in class that i've not heard of :P06:22
JucatoI need to finish this book before next year! :)06:22
=== stdin is still learning
Hobbseestdin: so are Jucato and myself :P06:22
mhbeveryone is06:23
Jucatostdin: different books, different teachers, different methods of teaching :)06:23
Hobbseemhb: no, you dont count as learning.06:23
Hobbseeyou know too much.06:23
Jucatomhb: no you're not :P06:23
Jucatostdin: but from what I've learned so far, that code is a bit leaning on the "coding C in C++"... I think06:24
=== Hobbsee knows packaging, but little code. it's quite weird.
stdinI've already passed some parts of my book without reading them, I'm sorta jumping all over it right now. guess I need some discipline06:24
Hobbseestdin: you can always refer back to it if you need it.06:24
JucatoHobbsee: I'm the reverse, no a bit of code, very little packaging06:24
Riddellmanchicken: I don't know, it should be06:24
Hobbseeuh oh, here's the high up Riddell06:24
=== Hobbsee scurries off, as a mere mortal
RiddellHobbsee: come back06:25
Jucatooooh! Riddell's back?! :)06:25
HobbseeRiddell: what for?06:25
RiddellJucato: I'm still in tenerife, but I have internet access now06:25
Jucatoah nice. how's everything there? :)06:26
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mhbRiddell: eh? You should stay offline and relax!06:26
Hobbseeoffline?  what's that?06:26
Hobbseeoh, tha'ts when the internet goes down, and we all gasp for air :P06:26
Riddella week without internet access is stressful enough06:26
Jucato(a day in a conference without wifi is stressful...)06:27
JucatoI still have yet to attend a FOSS related event with available wifi...06:27
HobbseeUDS had wifi, almost all the time06:28
Hobbseenot outside in the sun, near the pool though.  most disappointing :P06:28
Hobbseewas nice and warm, though!06:29
JucatoHobbsee: you won't be going to Boston?06:30
HobbseeJucato: nope.06:30
HobbseeJucato: boston+1 though....i'd hope to go06:31
=== Jucato wonders where that would be
HobbseeJucato: i eventually got an invite, but decided that i should stay back and pass electrodynamics06:31
Hobbseealthough id' love to go, i do need to finish uni06:31
Jucatoyeah uni first! :)06:31
Jucatooh... hm... boston+1 would be in May right?06:31
Hobbseein 2 years, the story will probably be different.  but i'm doing hard subjects, and i need to pass them.06:31
Hobbseeyes, that's what i'd expect06:31
Jucatotime to get active! hahah06:31
Jucatoit's good that it isn't in june. classes here start in june... but since I'm going for home learning, that wouldn't be a problem anyway hehe06:32
RiddellLure: how is kdepim doing?06:32
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HobbseeJucato: it's during term time for me - they all are06:32
Jucatoaw :(06:33
=== Hobbsee wonders who from kubuntu is going, then.
Hobbseeprobably Riddell, Riddell and Riddell06:33
=== Jucato knows of two KDE devs who'll be going to the FOSSCamp
=== Riddell no idea
Hobbseei was more wondering about kubuntu, not kde people06:33
HobbseeRiddell: surely you should, you put in the sponsorship lists!06:34
mhbJucato: going where?06:34
mhbJucato: UDS, fosscamp, something else?06:34
Jucatomhb: FOSSCamp (that's the name right?)06:34
mhbah, not me06:34
Riddellfosscamp is the weekend I think, UDS is the week event06:34
=== Jucato will still dream... maybe boston+1.. if he ever qualifies for sponsorship..
RiddellI think mhb, jjesse and nixternal got invites06:36
mhbJucato: I am likely going to uds, if the nice US people at the embassy give me a visa06:36
nixternalyes, I got one06:36
Jucatohooray for nixternal!06:36
nixternaland I am hoping that my days off come through06:36
Hobbseewoot.  there will be a semi-kubuntu presence then06:36
nixternaldunno if I can go yet...I won't seek sponsorship though, I will leave that for the people who need it06:36
Jucatohm.. better not dream of uds too much, then...06:36
nixternalone of these days Jucato...if I can't make this one, I can hopefully make the next one06:37
Jucatooh Riddell, while you're here, http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13338806:38
ubotuKDE bug 133388 in general "Manage Repositories is disabled" [Normal,New] 06:38
Jucatohaven't we fixed that in Kubuntu?06:38
=== Jucato is wondering if it has reached other places (mornfall and/or Debian)
RiddellJucato: yes, we have a quick and dirty patch for it06:39
Riddell(which causes another bug if you choose the menu entry before it should be enabled)06:39
Jucatois mornfall still working on Adept btw?06:39
Riddellnot as far as I know06:40
Jucatooh... :(06:40
Riddellcertainly not the stable branch06:40
Jucatolooks like that need for a package manger that mhb mentioned would slowly be coming true :)06:41
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Jucatocommon backend in all *buntus, different frontends...06:41
=== Hobbsee wonders what is so hard about reading team descriptions
nixternalwhen I run apt-get from the cli, and do an upgrade, it has a tendency to freeze before it finishes..I have to then remove the lock then -f install to complete it..anyone else seen this?06:42
nixternalI filed a bug, but haven't seen any traffic on it06:42
HobbseeMembership of this team requires that you are a member of Ubuntu-dev - otherwise, how do you plan to upload to universe?06:42
Hobbseeso a whole stack of non ubuntu-dev people *still* apply for membership06:42
nixternalwhat team is that Hobbsee ?06:43
Hobbseeone i'm an admin of06:43
Hobbseeand REVU is fun too.  a whole bunch of people continue to upload i386.changes.  nowhere in our docs does it state that that is acceptable.  and debian revisions of packages.06:43
Hobbseeif it doesnt say ubuntu in the version number, IT IS WRONG.06:44
nixternalI keep telling people that06:44
Hobbseei can understand getting confused over where to put it, but...06:44
=== Jucato always remembered that... -XubuntuX...
Jucatoin packaging, I'm more uneasy over the debian/ stuff, mostly control and rules :)06:45
nixternalalthough, we don't do it with the docs for some reason, but I didn't start it, I have only continued it :)06:45
nixternalJucato: cdbs is your best friend...in /usr/share/doc/cdbs there is a guide that will show you the world :)06:45
Jucatonixternal: but don't you have to use the patch system that the previous maintainer used? iirc that was the recommendation in our guide06:46
nixternalwell ya06:46
HobbseeJucato: usually a good idea.06:46
manchickenRiddell: Is your adept repo up to date?06:46
nixternalmost of the KDE stuff is cdbs anyways06:46
HobbseeJucato: yeah, that's why we have REVU.  so other MOTU's can fix it.06:47
Hobbsee(and not me)06:47
=== Jucato isn't so sure about that..
=== Hobbsee avoids new packages.
=== nixternal likes new packages
=== nixternal avoids libraries
=== Jucato wanted to learn packaging for the sake of new packages
nixternalJucato: that is how I learned..go to kde-apps.org and download apps and create packages for them06:48
Jucatobasically I wanted to make available *properly* packaged stuff from kde-apps/look06:48
nixternalI think you and I talked about that already before, and you said you were doing the same thing06:48
Jucatowith PPA, I might not even need to have it uploaded to universe if they're not wanted :)06:48
Jucatonixternal: I *wanted* to do the same06:49
Jucatoor rather, that was my motivation before06:49
HobbseeJucato: if it's fit for general use, it should be fit for universe.06:49
Hobbseeas in, not crackful06:49
JucatoHobbsee: yeah. but with the amount of stuff in kde-apps.org... :)06:49
Riddellmanchicken: seems to be06:49
manchickenRiddell: Much thanks.06:49
nixternallike KPlayer, but the dev ended up making it GPL v3 when it linked against Qt06:50
Riddellnixternal: did you get a response to that?06:50
manchickenRiddell: I'll be working on adept intermittently throughout the day.06:50
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Jucatonixternal: he did? oh...06:50
Riddellmanchicken: doing anything in paticular to it?06:50
manchickenI'm holding a free computer workshop today to celebrate Software Freedom Day06:50
manchickenRiddell: Changelog stuff seems to be near the top of the list.  Did you have a preference?06:50
nixternalRiddell: ya, he said stick with the older version, because he isn't moving away from GPL v306:50
manchickenRiddell: Although I really want to do a python app that looks and smells more like the GNOME update-manager program.06:51
nixternalI don't want to smell Gnome!06:51
manchickennixternal: Your mother smells like gnome, so I didn't think it bothered you so much :P06:51
Hobbseemanchicken: i cc'd you on a bug about the 404's, btw06:51
Riddellmanchicken: we may well end up doing that for hardy+1 but it needs pykde 4 bindings with an embedded konsole first06:51
nixternalI told her to shower with a bar of KDE, so it should be better now06:52
manchickenHobbsee: Cool.  I think Marco marked that one as a duplicate of the one where it's not fetching the changelogs.06:52
manchickenRiddell: I'm on board with the Python stuff, so count me in.06:52
Hobbseemanchicken: no, i reported one for aptitude06:52
Hobbsee(with reasons)06:53
manchickennixternal: You're not fully clean until your KDE fully clean.06:53
manchickenHobbsee: Ah, that one.  Gotcha.'06:53
Hobbseemanchicken: ameteur guess is that that code is in apt/libept anyway, so if you change it for one, you'll change it for all06:53
manchickenHobbsee: Well synaptic doesn't seem to have this same problem.06:54
mhbmanchicken: is adept really *that* fubar?06:54
manchickenmhb: I don't want to call it fubar, because I really do think it works and works well.06:54
manchickenmhb: I just don't think it fits the complete picture of what we want it to do.06:54
manchickenmhb: At least not without lots of nasty hacks.06:55
=== Hobbsee --> bed
mhbmanchicken: python is fine for apps that you don't really run twice a day, but for a package manager I'd still go for C++06:55
manchickenmhb: But I'm not the kubuntu-driver.  Riddell is :)06:55
manchickenmhb: I would, too.  But even then I'd say that adept isn't necessarily what we want to completely stick with.06:55
mhbmanchicken: yeah, but you have been taking care of adept for us, so your voice is important in this debate06:55
manchickenmhb: I've been pretty MIA lately though :)06:56
manchickenmhb: It will take almost a complete refactoring of adept to get the UTF8 stuff working properly.06:56
Jucatomanchicken: you're still one of the Adept men, regardless :)06:56
manchickenJucato: Thanks :)06:57
Jucatog'night Hobbsee!!!06:57
nixternalmanchicken: you guys rocking the freedom thing down there today?06:57
Hobbseenight :)06:57
manchickenI hope some folks come to my computer workshop today ^_^06:57
manchickenOtherwise I may be very bored today.06:57
Hobbseemanchicken: oh well, you stay here while i go MIA :)06:57
mhbmanchicken: the only downside of C++ is that it is hard to convince Gnome guys to have a C++ based backend06:57
manchickennixternal: Trying to.06:57
Jucatomanchicken: if it weren't too much work, I'd vote for a new or a reborn adept. but he who codes decides :)06:57
manchickenmhb: libapt scares me to be honest.06:57
manchickenmhb: There are so many areas of libapt where you have to swim forever to find a crash.06:58
Jucatomanchicken: isn't adept made up of at least 3 languages? C++(Qt/KDE), python, and STL? :)06:58
manchickenmhb: And I haven't seen any serious documentation on the library--not that there for sure isn't any, I just haven't seen it.06:58
manchickenJucato: Well, there is a Python interface to it, but libapt itself is C++ w/STL.06:58
manchickenNo Qt/KDE06:58
=== Jucato wonders if mornfall loves STL that much :)
mhbmanchicken: libapt or libept?06:59
mhbmanchicken: that's a difference06:59
manchickenmhb: libapt-front and libapt-cache is what I'm talking about.06:59
manchickenJucato: STL was the appropriate decision--short of a non-template-based library--for libapt though.06:59
manchickenJucato: libapt shouldn't be tied to KDE, because Synaptic uses it, too, IIRC.07:00
Jucatoit does? oh...07:00
manchickenI think so.  Not sure.07:00
manchickenI think aptitude may use it as well.07:00
Jucatobut can't there still be a common backend, even if the frontends would be C++(KDE) and C(GNOME)? or is python really the only solution for this frontend-backend thing?07:00
manchickenWell libapt is the common backend.07:00
manchickenThat's why STL is the most appropriate template library.07:01
manchickenIt's just that STL is a PITA for UTF8.07:01
manchickenBAM!  Three acronyms.  Beat that.07:01
=== Jucato heard that's one of the advantages of QString over string
jjesseRiddell:  yes i did get an inivte and yes i did accept it, approved for wor kand all that07:01
JucatoSTL is a PITA for UTF8 in APT?07:01
manchickenJucato: Yeah.  STL does have UTF stuff though.07:01
manchickenJucato: Very nice.07:02
manchickenJucato: It's just that UTF8 is a normal thing in Qt, and it's not as much of a normal thing in STL as far as I can tell.07:02
manchickenI don't see it used as often.07:02
manchickenAnd while I don't really care about UTF8 much for myself, for you and many other Ubuntu/Kubuntuers, UTF8 is a big deal.07:03
=== Jucato is lucky he isn't dealing with "real" strings yet :)
Riddelljjesse: oh, great07:03
jjesseRiddell: yes boss thought it sounded like a great idea07:03
jjessemahybe it will help convince him to do some linux consulting or something?07:04
mhbJucato: what I'm talking about is how much code can be shared07:04
Jucatomhb: I see...07:05
mhbJucato: when you use python, you can share a whole lot of code. only the DisplayText() and DisplayIcon() methods have to be UI-dependent, all the logic can be shared07:05
mhbwith a nice object-oriented interface07:05
mhbgdebi has one, restricted-manager has too07:06
Jucato(software-properties as well afaik)07:06
Jucatooh well... :(07:06
manchickenmhb: For sure adept could be modified to fit everything we want to do with it, but we have to remember that we're pretty much the only group putting any serious effort into it.  IIRC mornfall is doing the family man thing--as am I--and his time seems to be in short supply.07:06
mhbbut if you stick with a C library, you would have to tear out all this object-oriented logic into the frontend, which means less code reuse07:06
mhbthe functions07:07
Jucatomhb: tbh, call me selfish, but I'm not really much concerned with how much code would be shared with GNOME :)07:07
Jucatoas long as backends would be the same hehehe07:08
mhb(returnAllPackages() or something) can be shared, but the code that actually calls them cannot, but that can be done with python07:08
Jucatoyeah I know.. I'm bad :P07:08
mhbJucato: right, I'm being more pragmatic. If the shared code is maintained by folks like you or me, it will be worse than if it is maintained by a Canonical employee07:09
mhbbecause we cannot put all our time into it, whereas professional have the chance07:09
mhbJucato: I can step out of Restricted Manager and be sure that bugs will be fixed in the common code by pitti and others, and therefore there will be bugs caught for the -kde frontend without me07:10
mhbJucato: if there's a bug fixed in Synaptic and a similar one in Adept, noone from Synaptic will fix the Adept one07:11
Jucatoalthough I doubt the GNOME guys are going to move away from Synaptic... :)07:11
Jucatounless of course mandated by Canonical :P07:11
mhbJucato: this is actually my problem with the fancy new KDE4 Qt-based technologies07:13
mhblike Phonon or Solid07:13
mhbif I wanted to make a splendid new hardware manager for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, I would have to make it either HAL-based, or make them totally separate07:14
Jucatomhb: well we'll have to see. some software development didn't always evolve start from a crossdesktop orientation07:14
Jucatomost of the stuff in fd.o started from one side or the other, got accepted as a standard, and shoved in the other's throat :)07:15
Jucatoso who knows... these KDE 4 stuff might evolve into something less KDE-centric and more fd.o-centric07:15
Jucato(unless of course some other people decide to make a similar implementation, submit to fd.o, get approved, etc...)07:16
=== Jucato thinks he should --> bed like hobbsee
mhbbtw, is foreach() in some C++ library or is that just a Qt/KDE4 construct ?07:16
mhbbecause you have to use it in Solid07:17
Riddellit's a Qt 4 macro07:17
Riddellcan't remember how it's implemented, maybe moc expands it07:17
LureRiddell: kdepim is looking ok, we did another snapshot upload, now I plan to monitor svn for potential bug fixes07:18
Jucatomhb: sorry, but I'm of the opinion that you can't always play/win the cross-desktop card... so I may not be as worried as you. nonetheless I do understand where you're coming from :)07:18
mhbJucato: right. That is true for apps like video players or graphic editing apps, but a package manager should be the must07:19
mhbJucato: if we shared more with Ubuntu, we'd have less bugs in Adept. Now all we have is an unmaintained KDE3 app07:19
=== Jucato won't comment on that... :)
mhbJucato: at least it's in KDE upstream SVN, right? :o)07:21
Jucatono. that wasn't what I was thinking07:21
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Jucatoooh wow! ThomasZ! in here! :)07:21
RiddellLure: ThomasZ is having some problems with kdepim07:21
LureRiddell: bug in LP?07:22
manchickenHaving to have the coffee shop owner print out some signs for me.07:22
gnomefreakis upstream missing hte menu or just our version of kde4?07:22
Jucatognomefreak: afaik, no plasma-based menu at all07:22
mhbgnomefreak: plasmoids are in playground, that's the problem07:22
Jucatonot even with playground/base/plasma07:22
mhbsure, there is a plasma-based menu07:23
gnomefreakmhb: ah so once that is finally pushed i can have menu? ;)07:23
Jucatomhb: which one?07:23
ThomasZJucato: hiya :)07:23
mhbwait, I'm talking about the bar again instead of the menu07:24
=== mhb shuts up
mhbthere was a button for it, but I'm not sure if they made progress07:24
Jucatowell as of yesterday, no change07:24
mhbah, sorry then07:24
Jucatoeven raptor doesn't do anything worthwhile except show up :)07:24
JucatoI'm not exactly the authority on all things plasmoid though :)07:25
manchickenJucato: Really?  I feel so misled!07:25
ThomasZLure: my showstoppper-bug in kmail is that if I use kmail filters on my inbox for dimap to filter the mail to another account (and thus delete it in that inbox) doing a sync later will not delete the email in my inbox, but downloading it again.  So I end up with getting duplicates of my mail.07:25
Jucatomanchicken: hehehe! nixternal's misleading advertisements of me :)07:25
LureThomasZ: interesting issue - since I use dimap, I will try to reproduce on monday07:26
manchickenIs anybody aware of any documentation for libapt or libept?07:26
mhbmanchicken: not really, but I can help you search07:27
LureThomasZ: please open bug for this and you may want to talk with people in #kontact channel (just mention that you use enterprise version in kubuntu)07:27
Luremanchicken: isn't documentation "ask manchicken" ;-)07:27
manchickenLure: That's not for documentation, that's for misinformation :)07:27
Riddelllibept isn't documented07:28
manchickenOoh, there is a "source" method in the PackageT template.07:29
ThomasZLure: in the meantime, is there any way to get a proper working (aka old) kmail for gutsy?  I need something workin for my work machine.07:29
manchickenNot sure what it does though.07:30
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LureThomasZ: I do not see an easy way to downgrade. You could pick up old source package and build it yourself...07:34
RiddellThomasZ: you can try grabbing the resulting binaries from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:3.5.7-1ubuntu7/+build/37321507:36
Riddellalthough there's quite a few07:36
ThomasZhmm, ok, thanks07:36
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mhbI've got some question, perhaps manchicken or someone else can help me...07:54
mhbwhat is libapt-front and what is its relationship to libept?07:54
mhbis libept used by anything other than adept? Is it actively maintained?07:54
Riddellmhb: libept is a library to do things with apt08:03
Riddelllibapt-front is an old version of libept08:03
Riddelladept (being old) uses libapt-front, libapt-front is not maintained08:03
Riddelllibept is maintained (by enrico) and is used in debtags and ept-cache08:03
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=== Topic for #kubuntu-devel: Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Bugs! https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs | KDE 4.0 beta 2 -- http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-beta2.php | Meeting Thursday 1300UTC
=== Topic (#kubuntu-devel): set by sebas at Thu Sep 6 14:16:49 2007
=== manchicken [n=manckn@12-214-186-171.client.mchsi.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel
manchickenSweet.  Compiz-fusion is working nicely now.10:18
=== robotgeek [n=robotgee@c-68-62-216-83.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== alleeHol is now known as allee
Riddellmanchicken: with KDE borders?10:42
waylandbillI haven't tried compiz-fusion lately. The last time I did, the window decorations disappeared and my kicker panel didn't respond.10:47
alleemanchicken: intel gfx?10:48
manchickenRiddell: I'm using emerald now.10:48
alleeoh, hi Riddell  welcome back!!10:48
manchickenallee: Yeah.  It's very nice.10:49
manchickenI'm really liking it.10:49
manchickenIt's actually faster than normal window management.10:49
alleeOh, cool.  /me wait's for bzr branch to finish ...10:50
Riddellmanchicken: what's that?10:50
Riddellhola allee10:51
manchickenRiddell: What's what?  Emerald?10:51
manchickenRiddell: The kde-window-decorator kinda stinks.10:51
manchickenRiddell: Emerald (from Beryl, IIRC) works nicely with both KDE and compiz.10:52
Riddellmanchicken: and emerald is another window decorator?10:55
manchickenA very nice one.10:56
manchickenI'm really enjoying it.10:56
Riddellbut gtk based10:57
gnomefreakonly if it was easier to turn on10:57
manchickenDon't know.  Probably.10:57
manchickengnomefreak: Too true.10:57
manchickengnomefreak: I had to do way too much scripting to get this working.10:57
manchickenI'm just glad compiz seems stable enough to use now.10:57
=== gnomefreak looking for a gui to change metacity to compiz and i cant find one
manchickenThe desktop effects gnome thing should do that10:58
gnomefreakmanchicken: but i cant use emerald10:58
gnomefreakit is using default themes no way to change theme afaict10:58
manchickengnomefreak: Why not?11:00
gnomefreakthats odd11:00
manchickenI'm changing themes in emerald without much trouble.11:00
gnomefreakit wasnt on but had some effects11:00
manchickenYou just have to run emerald's theme manager.11:00
manchickenMight that have just been compiz?11:00
manchickenKDE's translucency stuff seems to work, but it's far from stable.11:00
gnomefreaki did but seems it wasnt enabled but i did hit enable11:00
gnomefreakhmmmmm still no themes and i saw splash but no icon in task bar11:02
gnomefreaktrying emeralds theme svn thingy lets see11:04
gnomefreakmanchicken: did you try the emerald theme fetcher?11:07
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manchickengnomefreak: No.  Is that built into the theme manager?11:08
gnomefreakunder repositories11:10
manchickenDoesn't seem to do anything.11:11
manchickenbrb, got folks here11:12
ryanakcaRiddell: how was your vacation?11:31
Riddellryanakca: ask me again in a week11:31
ryanakcaAh, not done :)11:31
Riddelljust moved to somewhere with network11:32
Riddelland no English people11:32
mhbryanakca: and he calls that vacation :o)11:32
ryanakcaWhere you now? (other than networked/non-anglophone community)11:33
mhbjust joking ... everyone has a different idea of vacation11:33
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Riddellryanakca: here http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/2007-09-15-tenerife/100_1068.jpg11:34
ryanakcaAh, cool :D11:35
RiddellLa Laguna, the city where everyone runs Kubuntu11:35
ryanakcabefore you disappear again, (if you have another guess off the top of your head, if not, don't bother looking into it, you're on vacation), have any more ideas for bug 136560 ?11:36
ubotuLaunchpad bug 136560 in kdebase "kde-base update install env and share folder at wrong place" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13656011:36
ryanakcaI've asked around in here over the past couple days, still no clue :)11:37
Riddellryanakca: didn't we fix that?11:37
ryanakcaI thought we did11:37
Riddellhmm, no, we didn't11:37
ryanakcabut, I guess s/$KDEHOME/$kdehome didn't cut it11:38
Riddell"cp -f /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/gtk-qt-engine.rc.sh $HOME/$KDEHOME/env"  still has it in capitals11:38
Riddellgive me a minute and I'll look at where it broke11:38
ryanakcaok, well, I'm off to my birthday supper, so, I'll either see you in a week, or later on tonight :)11:38
ryanakcaEnjoy your vacation, and thanks :)11:38
mhbryanakca: you have got birthday?11:39
mhbryanakca: right, you have! Happy birthday!11:40
mhbryanakca: wiki page told me11:40
gnomefreakryanakca: happy birthday11:41
coreymon77ryanakca: happy birthday11:41
=== coreymon77 sing the happy birthday song to ryanakca
mhbryanakca: you must be quite proud, having software freedom day as your birthday11:42
mhbryanakca: luckily it is a movable feast, so more people can have this privilege :o)11:44
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coreymon77i want to change my launchpad logo to the kubuntu logo11:54
coreymon77but all i can find is the logo including the name kubuntu11:54
coreymon77how can i get just the little circely thing?11:54
coreymon77or do i seriously have to gimp it?11:55
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gnomefreaklook in examples?11:58
gnomefreaki thought they were in there11:58
coreymon77look in where?11:59
coreymon77gnomefreak: ill change my logo from my kubuntu box12:00
gnomefreakhmmmm looks like it has kubuntu beside it12:00
coreymon77making it too big for launchpad12:01
coreymon77ill find it on google12:01
coreymon77seems like im gonna have to resize this one12:02
coreymon77imageshack it is!12:02
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